Guild Wars 2

No matter what ANet does… somebody is not going to like it.

If they gave everyone 10gp for nothing, just to give some of the poorer players some cash to work with:

• one person might say “I already have 5000gp what do I need 10gp for? ANet is cheap.”
• the next might say “ANet is trying to inflate the Gold Market.”
• I would say “Thanks ANet” and move on

For the ANet employees, I would think that reading these Forums has to be the most depressing part of their job.

With the possible exception of Gaile Gray, who seems to have the armor of a dragon and the patience of a Saint.

As for the Reasons for the change, I agree wholeheartedly that the reason is a much needed addition.

we going to get dragon armor and a new saint skill?

Unfortunately, like the Frog… It is only for Gaile

I find it is helpful to ask myself that question each and every time a change is made. Why did they make this change.

This helps me keep a positive spin on things.

Vayne.8563:

The over-riding question is why has so much changed?

I think there are several reasons:-

1) Constant change reinvigourates GW2, it help keep it fresh and players playing.

2) It is used as a ‘vehicle’ to sell new items to players and Anet hope a decent amount of those items will be purchased with gems bought with $$$.

3) Every new ‘content’ update is great advertising/promotion.

4) Meta/‘balance’ changes are done NOT to promote balance at all, but as a cheap way of mixing the game up, in particular it keeps the sPvP players happy.

Anet aims to get players ‘addicted’ to GW2 and then trys to keep them addicted…

An ascending power curve does not create an ‘optional’ grind, not even a borderline optional one—but I am happy to see you’re at least using the word borderline. The purpose of vertical progression is to 1) create an illusion of character progression, and 2) motivate continued play. If the games power level is ascending over time, following that power curve is obviously not optional. This is what motivates people to play.

And, we don’t need to know their reasons for a given change in order to judge it. We experience the effects in our game play; it only makes sense to judge it. I do agree that full communication of the rationale would diffuse negative reactions, especially if the rationale was rational.

Wait… you can target things when not in a group?!?!?!

How????

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Wait… you can target things when not in a group?!?!?!

How????

I wondered about that, also. Perhaps Vayne is referring to the lack of mob tagging. That feature is not a change in GW2 — it’s been around since beta, at least. However, it is certainly a change to business as usual in MMO’s.

Raine.1394:

And, we don’t need to know their reasons for a given change in order to judge it. We experience the effects in our game play; it only makes sense to judge it. I do agree that full communication of the rationale would diffuse negative reactions, especially if the rationale was rational.

I disagree with this completely. It’s like anything else. Why did you kill him? Never mind, I don’t need to know your reasons. But it was self defense. Doesn’t matter.

If Anet makes a change to the game that I don’t like, I want to know why. Sometimes, in spite of my objections, I can intellectually understand why the change was made and that makes it better for me. It may not make it better for you, but that’s another matter.

Take something as simple as a skill nerf. They nerf a skill and a bunch of people cry foul. But if you know exactly why the skill was nerfed..some people will still cry foul, but not nearly as many.

In Guild Wars 1, there was a section of the forum where devs explained why they did what they did and it’s one of the things I really liked about Guild Wars 1. The changes made sense, even if they didn’t seem to when I first read about/saw them.

Without context, there are lots of things that don’t really have any meaning at all.

IndigoSundown.5419:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Wait… you can target things when not in a group?!?!?!

How????

I wondered about that, also. Perhaps Vayne is referring to the lack of mob tagging. That feature is not a change in GW2 — it’s been around since beta, at least. However, it is certainly a change to business as usual in MMO’s.

Nope…before the last patch, if you weren’t in a group, you couldn’t control T something to target it. It helps in big events, in case you go off target to get back on. Before the last patch you had to be in a group to place a target on a creature…and now you don’t.

Yeah it has changed and I’m not sure if it’s for the better. I will say that I haven’t played since the SAB patch has come out and that is the longest time that I’ve gone without playing. Some of that is due to my ambivalence toward the SAB itself and the other is my dislike for all of the ascended addition and changes due to that.

Or it could be that I’m just burnt out on the game. Does the game changing have anything to do with that? I’m not sure yet.

Creeper.9360:

Yeah it has changed and I’m not sure if it’s for the better. I will say that I haven’t played since the SAB patch has come out and that is the longest time that I’ve gone without playing. Some of that is due to my ambivalence toward the SAB itself and the other is my dislike for all of the ascended addition and changes due to that.

Or it could be that I’m just burnt out on the game. Does the game changing have anything to do with that? I’m not sure yet.

I’m not sure why not liking SAB would stop anyone from playing (unless maybe you were already looking for an excuse). It’s an easily ignored box in Rata Sum. If you didn’t like dungeons would you not play? Or jumping puzzles?

But I do understand being unhappy about the changes to ascended.

That said there are so many things Anet has done that I’ve really liked. The Bazarre of the Four Winds was great for me. I like the zone wide events too (particularly now that they’re more randomized). I love Sanctum Sprint and Southsun Survival.

But no game is going to please everyone.

Vayne.8563:

The over-riding question is why has so much changed? What has caused these changes to occur. Some people say greed. Some people say that Anet is catering to a small but vocal minority. Others claim that Anet is trying to satisfy everyone. Others say Anet is trying to appease the content locusts, or the gear grinders.

Without knowing their reasons for change, I don’t see how we can judge the change. And, for the most part, Anet isn’t sharing their reasons.

I think it would be nice of patch notes would include not just changes, but notes behind the rational for changes.

I think this might help diffuse some of reactions people have to them.

Anet has openly talked about using GW2 as a test bed of sorts for trying to innovate the MMO genre. They have openly admitted that certain pieces of content, the method of delivery, and new mechanics were to try new things. Some they thought worked, some they realized were not quite as smooth as expected.

Anet is also a believer of iteration in their designs. They are willing to scrap whole systems in order to make them they way they want.

GW2 to me has always seemed to conflict with itself. Upon release it was advertised to people of all gaming genres and especially to those who were tired of old school MMO’s. As the months went on, various design decisions were implemented in order to more specifcally cater to all these backgrounds. The problem being that more players from old MMO’s were joining and were missing out on things they did like about the games they left. By voicing complaints about such things, Anet felt pressured again to appease this group even though it directly conflicted with their initial design philosophy.

Old GW1 update notes did in fact include reasons why things were happening. Specifically skill changes.

On the topic of patches, it would be nice if they had some kind of “Patch Preview” before hand. It can be a post article, video, audio, w/e. JUST SOMETHING QQ.

Vayne.8563:

Creeper.9360:

Yeah it has changed and I’m not sure if it’s for the better. I will say that I haven’t played since the SAB patch has come out and that is the longest time that I’ve gone without playing. Some of that is due to my ambivalence toward the SAB itself and the other is my dislike for all of the ascended addition and changes due to that.

Or it could be that I’m just burnt out on the game. Does the game changing have anything to do with that? I’m not sure yet.

I’m not sure why not liking SAB would stop anyone from playing (unless maybe you were already looking for an excuse). It’s an easily ignored box in Rata Sum. If you didn’t like dungeons would you not play? Or jumping puzzles?

But I do understand being unhappy about the changes to ascended.

That said there are so many things Anet has done that I’ve really liked. The Bazarre of the Four Winds was great for me. I like the zone wide events too (particularly now that they’re more randomized). I love Sanctum Sprint and Southsun Survival.

But no game is going to please everyone.

Well true about the SAB, but since that was the major theme to the patch I added that in to why I’m not really playing much anymore. Perhaps the next content addition will invigorate me again. I actually enjoy a lot of the mini games they add in so I’m perfectly content with that type of gameplay.

About the ascended stuff, part of it is mental. Even though it’s not really a treadmill in the traditional sense it feels like one to me. Plus the grind associated with them. It just lowers my desire to play.

Anyway, I’m just hoping further updates will rekindle my desire to play.

Vayne.8563:

You have a choice when they do to leave or stay, to complain or accept.

Thankfully, with the B2P/Cash shop model, we also have a third choice, support the game with additional cash, or don’t.

I still love a lot about this game, which is why I will keep playing, but for now I will no longer spend money on gems. Hopefully having spent money in the cash shop in the past and by continuing to play I keep my voice relevant, and by choosing to complain and withhold my financial support I send a clear message.

If I’m alone in sending the message in a game with hundreds of thousands of players, then ANet has every right to just ignore me. If enough people, however, also send the same message, they may listen.

This game has changed a whole lot since its release. Whether those changes have been a mistake or not is largely a matter of opinion.

Sort of. For now it is, but those changes will add up, and eventually have consequences. If the game thrives and the creators are satisfied with their creation, then those changes were not a mistake. If the game struggles and/or the creators decide they aren’t satisfied (even if they are making plenty of money) then those changes were a mistake.

We have no objective way to judge now, but that doesn’t mean there won’t be a clearer way to judge when we get to view all this with hindsight.

Without knowing their reasons for change, I don’t see how we can judge the change. And, for the most part, Anet isn’t sharing their reasons.

We may not be able to judge the people at ANet who made those choices, but we can certainly judge the changes themselves. Each of us needs to judge them for ourselves, and as you said, make the three big decisions. Stay or go? Be quiet or complain? Continue to provide financial support or not?

I think it would be nice of patch notes would include not just changes, but notes behind the rational for changes.

I think this might help diffuse some of reactions people have to them.

I think you’re on to something here. I was thinking about this recently, and realized this is one of the biggest changes the game has gone through. Before launch, ANet were very willing to enthusiastically talk about the game they want to make. What were their ideals? What kind of answers did they come up with when they asked, “Is it fun?”

Now, they seem very reluctant to do that.

To Be Continued, message exceeds forum length restriction….

…continued.

Let me make a distinction between talking about things they want to implement that aren’t finished yet, and what they hope to achieve in the game. I completely understand their reluctance to talk about the former. When you go on about specific features that then have to later be scrapped, you set yourself up for extra grief. We’ve seen it plenty of times. It makes sense to stay vague on these things.

General direction, however, should be expressed clearly. What is the core audience their aiming for? Do they really feel like you should be able to get rewarded for playing any part of the game, or has that principal been replaced by the idea that you should get rewarded for playing all parts of the game (as it seems to be)?

We, as players, deserve to have these meta-goals, so to speak, clearly expressed so that we can react to whether the concrete changes meet or undermine those goals. That’s why people keep going back to the “Manifesto”. It was a Mission, Vision, and Values statement for the game. It’s necessary to have something like that so you have a touchstone to talk about the things you are experiencing.

Since the Manifesto seems to be outdated, a road-map the game is only partly following, if at all, now, we need a new statement of Mission, Vision, and Values, and ANet doesn’t seem willing to provide that anymore beyond saying “we know this area of the game needs work, and have things on the drawing board to make it better”.

Better for whom? Better in what way?

Without something like the Manifesto, every forum discussion comes down to a pointless back of forth. “I want mounts! Mounts sux! Ascended rox! Ascended sux! WvW is kewl! WvW is a mess!” If there was a semi-clear statement of overall vision, we could have much more meaningful discussions and give clear feedback as to whether each choice they make is the right choice to bring that vision to pass, rather than thousands of disconnected statements of personal preference.

Unfortunately, I fear this boils down to political soft-speak. If ANet came out clearly at this point with a vision, it would confirm for some part of the player base that this game is just not for them.

So they continue to implement things that seem in random directions. Give the altholics the account wallet! Then slap them with some time-gating. Smack the farmers with diminishing returns, then make up with a shiny bouquet of Queen’s Pavilion and Champ Loot Buff.

The ship continues lurching left and right, so that we all feel that it must be headed to the destination we want to reach, but losing a few more people over the side with each sudden change in direction.

I am taking my breather during the SAB content addition. It’s not that I dislike SAB, but the major reason I did it before was for obi shards and not so much total enjoyment of the content. The ascended weapons/crafting to 500 has left me disappointed and disheartened. My guild left en masse over a couple of the issues on the latest patches.
I log in to do the dailies and kind of wander around. I do a scarlet invasion if one pops up. Or I log into a little alt to level and not worry about all the high level gear I won’t be getting for my mains.
I wouldn’t call it burned out yet. I would say it’s just a loss. I’m a little too low on time, a little too low on mats, a little too low on gold, a little too low on guildies.

The game has changed and my playstyle is not really supported any longer. (Multiple main characters, changing builds/gear to refresh the older characters, getting max stat quickly as possible and then work on cosmetics slowly)
I don’t want to give up or give in just yet. I have accepted it and am going forward. It just feels like such a slog compared to the wonder and enjoyment it once was.

4) Meta/‘balance’ changes are done NOT to promote balance at all, but as a cheap way of mixing the game up, in particular it keeps the sPvP players happy.

Lol.

Vayne.8563:

There’s been an awful lot of talk about how this game has changed…much of it negative. And I can see where people are coming from. A lot of the changes in the game has made it less fun and more grind. While the grind is optional…it’s only borderline optional. That is to say, there’s pressure to get achievements, pressure to get certain gear. If some of that pressure is self-inflicted by players, well, it’s still pressure.

But there have also been some changes for the better, too. A lot of people don’t like guild missions, but having done the guild puzzles now…I think that’s brilliant content.

So many advances to the game have been made… not just stuff like Fractals or the AC revamp, but also stuff like marketplace preview, the account wallet, the ability to target something even if you’re not in a group, the end of culling, zone wide invasions, the mini game rotation, the living story. Indeed, this game is hardly recognizable as the game that originally drew many of us here.

Whether you like the changes or not is an individual decision. Naturally if you don’t like them, you have a right to complain about them. But I’ve never played any MMO that hasn’t changed drastically and I’ve never played any MMO where people didn’t cry the sky was falling every time a change was made. This is normal for the MMO genre.

Games change and evolve all the time. You have a choice when they do to leave or stay, to complain or accept. Those are your choices.

This game has changed a whole lot since its release. Whether those changes have been a mistake or not is largely a matter of opinion.

The over-riding question is why has so much changed? What has caused these changes to occur. Some people say greed. Some people say that Anet is catering to a small but vocal minority. Others claim that Anet is trying to satisfy everyone. Others say Anet is trying to appease the content locusts, or the gear grinders.

Without knowing their reasons for change, I don’t see how we can judge the change. And, for the most part, Anet isn’t sharing their reasons.

I think it would be nice of patch notes would include not just changes, but notes behind the rational for changes.

I think this might help diffuse some of reactions people have to them.

So in short you want Anet to be more like Riot. Yeah, good luck with that. While you are at it could you convince the sun to not be so hot tomorrow?

I do agree with everything so said Vayne. Bottom line, it’s all about opinion. I do think where we’ll really see the effect of Anet’s direction, is when the competition hits the shelves. That’s where the rubber is going to meet the road. I think some people are just hanging around for lack of better/newer options.

Vayne.8563:

Without knowing their reasons for change, I don’t see how we can judge the change.

I disagree. If ANet makes a change to the game which radically changes the play style for a player, it’s certainly within their rights to judge that change, and we do not necessarily need to know what their rationale was for that change. As an example, let’s assume that ANet decided that jumping puzzles was a bad idea, so they patch them out. For players who love jumping puzzles, that would negatively impact their game experience. Those players would, almost certainly, have some judgment or opinion about the change.

Pre-release, the game was touted as one in which progression would be horizontal, and that end-game gear would be readily attainable by a new 80. They’ve changed that, and the new formula is more akin to the “business as usual” grind of many MMO’s out there. Many people are not happy with this change, and it is natural for them to have judgment about that change. To ask people to withhold that judgment until they have access to the reasons behind the change is unrealistic.

Vayne.8563:

And, for the most part, Anet isn’t sharing their reasons

Amen to that, Brother.

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Vayne.8563:

There’s been an awful lot of talk about how this game has changed…much of it negative. And I can see where people are coming from. A lot of the changes in the game has made it less fun and more grind. While the grind is optional…it’s only borderline optional. That is to say, there’s pressure to get achievements, pressure to get certain gear. If some of that pressure is self-inflicted by players, well, it’s still pressure.

But there have also been some changes for the better, too. A lot of people don’t like guild missions, but having done the guild puzzles now…I think that’s brilliant content.

So many advances to the game have been made… not just stuff like Fractals or the AC revamp, but also stuff like marketplace preview, the account wallet, the ability to target something even if you’re not in a group, the end of culling, zone wide invasions, the mini game rotation, the living story. Indeed, this game is hardly recognizable as the game that originally drew many of us here.

Whether you like the changes or not is an individual decision. Naturally if you don’t like them, you have a right to complain about them. But I’ve never played any MMO that hasn’t changed drastically and I’ve never played any MMO where people didn’t cry the sky was falling every time a change was made. This is normal for the MMO genre.

Games change and evolve all the time. You have a choice when they do to leave or stay, to complain or accept. Those are your choices.

This game has changed a whole lot since its release. Whether those changes have been a mistake or not is largely a matter of opinion.

The over-riding question is why has so much changed? What has caused these changes to occur. Some people say greed. Some people say that Anet is catering to a small but vocal minority. Others claim that Anet is trying to satisfy everyone. Others say Anet is trying to appease the content locusts, or the gear grinders.

Without knowing their reasons for change, I don’t see how we can judge the change. And, for the most part, Anet isn’t sharing their reasons.

I think it would be nice of patch notes would include not just changes, but notes behind the rational for changes.

I think this might help diffuse some of reactions people have to them.

So in short you want Anet to be more like Riot. Yeah, good luck with that. While you are at it could you convince the sun to not be so hot tomorrow?

Do you know that Riot is owned by Chinese(Tencent Holding) now? Do you know how bad the reputation Tencent has in China? And, do you know how much money Tencent makes from in-game cash shop?

Seems fair enough for another company, such as anet, to do the same model if it can help them gather more money. This is kinda off topic but I believe its somewhat related.

Do you know that Riot is owned by Chinese(Tencent Holding) now? Do you know how bad the reputation Tencent has in China? And, do you know how much money Tencent makes from in-game cash shop?

Seems fair enough for another company, such as anet, to do the same model if it can help them gather more money. This is kinda off topic but I believe its somewhat related.

That has absolutely nothing to do with the comment, or the discussion. It isn’t related at all. The reply, incase you didn’t read, was about Anet explaining their reasoning behind changes.

http://beta.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/media/video/310-patch-preview

Go watch what riot does for patches. Take a look at what a real company does that actually cares about their players. No, I’m not saying they care because they are good people. They care because they rely on their players to spend money.

Feel free to browse further back.
http://beta.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/media/video/patch-preview/

Even if you don’t like a change, they at least take the time to explain why they are making it. They give you some insight into the development process. Now if you are going to say they are a bad company, what does that make Anet.

edit:

I will give you a few examples from the most recent patch
http://beta.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-311-notes

Summary: Draven’s passive will now consume all stacks on kill to grant bonus gold, although the gold granted per stack has been reduced by 1. Additionally, Draven’s passive will grant at least 50 bonus gold per kill.

Context: Considering Draven is obviously the greatest champion ever in League of Legends, his new League of Draven passive feels a little flat right now. We’re looking at ways of making his Adoration mechanic more rewarding – both functionally and visually – during late game and multikills.

League of Draven

Now grants a base 50 Gold bonus upon killing an enemy champion (from 0)
Now consumes all Adoration stacks on kill to reward Draven with Gold (previously only consuming half)
Gold per Adoration stack consumed reduced to 2 (from 3)
Visuals and sounds for League of Draven play on every Draven kill, instead of only playing on kills which consumed a large number of stacks

Fiora

Context: Fiora’s Blade Waltz has been hindered by reliability issues for a while now, so we’re making some quality of life changes to help ensure that her ultimate is suitably satisfying to use.

Blade Waltz

Will now choose untargetable and invisible targets if necessary to continue the Blade Waltz. If Fiora needs to jump to such a target to continue Blade Waltz, she will do so, though the ability will not deal damage to untargetable/invisible units. If the target is revealed when Fiora jumps to them (in brush), she’ll deal damage as normal

Galio

Summary: We’re reducing Idol of Durand’s cooldown at all ranks and fixing the mana cost to a flat number (lower overall) at all ranks.

Context: Galio’s ultimate has several measures in place to keep it in check, but between the counters and the resource costs (mana and cooldowns), we feel it’s currently too constrained overall. By reducing his ult’s cooldown and mana cost, we should ensure that Galio stays a viable pick at all levels of play.

Idol of Durand

Cooldown reduced to 150/135/120 (from 170/150/130)
Mana cost reduced to 100 (from 100/150/200)

See that little part that says context. They actually explain why they do things. That isn’t even the end, they have a public beta…yes PUBLIC beta. They go through the changes there, they give reasons behind various changes. That is just one of many differences between a company that is actually an esport, and one that only used the term esport as a way to try and lure people in.

Oh and as far as I know tencent only holds a majority stake in riot, I don’t think they actually own them. Though to be fair the differences probably aren’t that huge, but I’m don’t actually know.

For those wondering, here is an example of what Anet used to do with GW1 updates and skill changes. There was a simplified game update page as well as this detailed developer page that explained all the changes and why.

http://www.guildwars.com/gameplay/developer_updates/september_2012_skill_balances.php

Vayne.8563:

Raine.1394:

And, we don’t need to know their reasons for a given change in order to judge it. We experience the effects in our game play; it only makes sense to judge it. I do agree that full communication of the rationale would diffuse negative reactions, especially if the rationale was rational.

I disagree with this completely. It’s like anything else. Why did you kill him? Never mind, I don’t need to know your reasons. But it was self defense. Doesn’t matter.

If Anet makes a change to the game that I don’t like, I want to know why. Sometimes, in spite of my objections, I can intellectually understand why the change was made and that makes it better for me. It may not make it better for you, but that’s another matter.

Take something as simple as a skill nerf. They nerf a skill and a bunch of people cry foul. But if you know exactly why the skill was nerfed..some people will still cry foul, but not nearly as many.

In Guild Wars 1, there was a section of the forum where devs explained why they did what they did and it’s one of the things I really liked about Guild Wars 1. The changes made sense, even if they didn’t seem to when I first read about/saw them.

Without context, there are lots of things that don’t really have any meaning at all.

I disagree with this completely. We are not deciding whether to prosecute a murder here and motive means nothing. I really didn’t care why they nerfed the thief’s reveal a few patches back. Yes, they were nerfing ‘stealth’ but so what, it destroyed the flow of my S/D thief’s playstyle. I wasn’t even the target of the nerf, but I was affected and I complained loudly. They reverted the change and all was good.

The motives are not at all important in the changes introduced by game companies. It’s only the result of the changes that is of importance to me. But, as I said, full communication of rationale undoubtedly will result in more understanding and goodwill overall and I therefore support a call for fuller communication. It would be a good thing.

JK Arrow.7102:

For those wondering, here is an example of what Anet used to do with GW1 updates and skill changes. There was a simplified game update page as well as this detailed developer page that explained all the changes and why.

http://www.guildwars.com/gameplay/developer_updates/september_2012_skill_balances.php

you know what sucks the most? This awesome update came out when gw2 was released and made gw1 deserted. I would’ve enjoyed the hell of that update if it was released in 2010 or earlier. Why did it took you so long, anet

Infernia.9847:

I am taking my breather during the SAB content addition. It’s not that I dislike SAB, but the major reason I did it before was for obi shards and not so much total enjoyment of the content. The ascended weapons/crafting to 500 has left me disappointed and disheartened. My guild left en masse over a couple of the issues on the latest patches.
I log in to do the dailies and kind of wander around. I do a scarlet invasion if one pops up. Or I log into a little alt to level and not worry about all the high level gear I won’t be getting for my mains.
I wouldn’t call it burned out yet. I would say it’s just a loss. I’m a little too low on time, a little too low on mats, a little too low on gold, a little too low on guildies.

The game has changed and my playstyle is not really supported any longer. (Multiple main characters, changing builds/gear to refresh the older characters, getting max stat quickly as possible and then work on cosmetics slowly)
I don’t want to give up or give in just yet. I have accepted it and am going forward. It just feels like such a slog compared to the wonder and enjoyment it once was.

I never thought I would agree with you on anything but I feel pretty much the same even if the particulars differ
The game has changed, some of it has been for the better but the focus of the game seems to me to be worse.

I have been called a fanboy and white knight so many times on these forums but this last patch just knocked the stuffing out of me.
I have lost all desire to log in.

I can do all the things I have been doing- my question is why?
I can see that the game will eventually not support my play style anymore.

I didn’t even buy the permanent tools for my other main that I have been waiting for, simply because I couldn’t justify buying gems- that is a first for me.

I would love to hear some reasons- honest ones , not press.

JK Arrow.7102:

For those wondering, here is an example of what Anet used to do with GW1 updates and skill changes. There was a simplified game update page as well as this detailed developer page that explained all the changes and why.

http://www.guildwars.com/gameplay/developer_updates/september_2012_skill_balances.php

Makes me curious what happened to the people working on GW1. I know they were supposedly moved over to GW2, but it sure doesn’t seem like it.

Morrigan.2809:

Infernia.9847:

I am taking my breather during the SAB content addition. It’s not that I dislike SAB, but the major reason I did it before was for obi shards and not so much total enjoyment of the content. The ascended weapons/crafting to 500 has left me disappointed and disheartened. My guild left en masse over a couple of the issues on the latest patches.
I log in to do the dailies and kind of wander around. I do a scarlet invasion if one pops up. Or I log into a little alt to level and not worry about all the high level gear I won’t be getting for my mains.
I wouldn’t call it burned out yet. I would say it’s just a loss. I’m a little too low on time, a little too low on mats, a little too low on gold, a little too low on guildies.

The game has changed and my playstyle is not really supported any longer. (Multiple main characters, changing builds/gear to refresh the older characters, getting max stat quickly as possible and then work on cosmetics slowly)
I don’t want to give up or give in just yet. I have accepted it and am going forward. It just feels like such a slog compared to the wonder and enjoyment it once was.

I never thought I would agree with you on anything but I feel pretty much the same even if the particulars differ
The game has changed, some of it has been for the better but the focus of the game seems to me to be worse.

I have been called a fanboy and white knight so many times on these forums but this last patch just knocked the stuffing out of me.
I have lost all desire to log in.

I can do all the things I have been doing- my question is why?
I can see that the game will eventually not support my play style anymore.

I didn’t even buy the permanent tools for my other main that I have been waiting for, simply because I couldn’t justify buying gems- that is a first for me.

I would love to hear some reasons- honest ones , not press.

wow that coming from you its like the apocalypse is coming or what.

Morrigan.2809:

<snip>I have lost all desire to log in.

I can do all the things I have been doing- my question is why?
I can see that the game will eventually not support my play style anymore.<snip>

Same here. I used to really enjoy this game, and I thought it had a lot of potential, but since the last patch, I’ve played about 10 minutes. The only reason I can think of to log in now is to tell my guildies they won’t be seeing me around.

Today I also thought about reasons I don’t play anymore. My situation is:

- I like the combat system very much
- I like the non trinity idea
- I like the looks and general style
- I like playing alts

- I completely dislike the way stats are put on gear and how different direct and condition damage turns out
- I completely dislike the whole achievement idea (hated it in wow aswell)
- I dislike holyday patches and ‘short’ patches

Idk but most of the changes def. did not make me play more. Motivation is here key, I really don’t have any for this game. It feels much more like I have to be online 24/7 for far too much (not so special) content.
There are balance decisions I really didn’t like and perhaps it all adds up now.

Of course this is all personal and if you guys are happy it’s cool. I thought it could be nice for devs to get some reasons form htose who liked the game and still stoped playing.

Cheers.

I mined all nodes in Gendarran -> Dredgehaunt -> Timberline each day for 3 days to get all the metal and wood required for a weapon, but then realized that after 1500h of playing I don’t even have enough ancient wood logs to max 1 discipline.

Disheartened I decided to stop aggravating myself and simply play the content I like (SAB right now), but if this implementation goes unchanged and worst of all ascended armor follows the same pattern I guess it’s time for me to leave. I’m not in the targeted demographic anymore, and neither are my friends. Makes me really sad because there are many things I like, but I’m likely to see more and more disappointments in the future.

Since I have voiced my concern more than enough in these days, I’ll simply lurk the forums in hope of some clarification. Sorry for the overdramatic post.

Morrigan.2809:

Infernia.9847:

I am taking my breather during the SAB content addition. It’s not that I dislike SAB, but the major reason I did it before was for obi shards and not so much total enjoyment of the content. The ascended weapons/crafting to 500 has left me disappointed and disheartened. My guild left en masse over a couple of the issues on the latest patches.
I log in to do the dailies and kind of wander around. I do a scarlet invasion if one pops up. Or I log into a little alt to level and not worry about all the high level gear I won’t be getting for my mains.
I wouldn’t call it burned out yet. I would say it’s just a loss. I’m a little too low on time, a little too low on mats, a little too low on gold, a little too low on guildies.

The game has changed and my playstyle is not really supported any longer. (Multiple main characters, changing builds/gear to refresh the older characters, getting max stat quickly as possible and then work on cosmetics slowly)
I don’t want to give up or give in just yet. I have accepted it and am going forward. It just feels like such a slog compared to the wonder and enjoyment it once was.

I never thought I would agree with you on anything but I feel pretty much the same even if the particulars differ
The game has changed, some of it has been for the better but the focus of the game seems to me to be worse.

I have been called a fanboy and white knight so many times on these forums but this last patch just knocked the stuffing out of me.
I have lost all desire to log in.

I can do all the things I have been doing- my question is why?
I can see that the game will eventually not support my play style anymore.

I didn’t even buy the permanent tools for my other main that I have been waiting for, simply because I couldn’t justify buying gems- that is a first for me.

I would love to hear some reasons- honest ones , not press.

Welcome to the light side. It’s funny as I campaigned religiously to get the tools back in the TP and then didn’t buy them after the last patch because I could see there was no way I could justify buying gems. I just don’t think I will be playing much longer. I have all the professions at 80 and realistically can only move one along the power curve. I don’t even have the energy to think about it any more.

I agree, the game has changed. And unfortunately, I found this past week that the direction it has gone is no longer something that I am interested in and so I will be taking a very long break from it.

I have never agreed with the concept of ascended gear and really don’t think it belongs in the game. But since many parts of the game were enjoyable, I was willing to give it a try. I resigned myself to having only one main character and not playing my alts any more because with the time gating there would be no realistic way I could gear up them all. I don’t enjoy crafting, but leveled up to 400 the huntsman, weaponsmith, and artificer professions in preparation for the new crafting to 500 for ascended weapons. I don’t really find zerging champions fun, but it’s not too hard at least. I even started running jumping puzzles and found that while I don’t really like them, they aren’t as bad as I remembered.

Now that I’ve had a chance to see the actual implementation of the ascended weapons and the huge time and money sink that it really is, I have lost all desire to play a game that has chosen this direction. Just thinking of the things I was willing to change about the way I play the game to get ascended gear makes me wonder what I was thinking.

For all of you that that will continue with the game, I wish you good luck! I’ll probably check back now and then for a while to see if by chance the game direction changes to something that is more favorable to what I am interested in a game (something more similar to the horizontal only progression focus that the game had originally).

I was pretty unhappy with the ascended gear changes too, not for myself, but for everyone else. I felt let down that there was so much to do to get one. But then I started breaking it down and looked at how much work it actually was. If you really hate dungeons it probably sucks quite bad. World events are quite fast and easy so I don’t see that as a big a problem.

But after hearing Colin’s Pax interview, the whole thing sat a bit easier with me. I still don’t love the idea. But I felt at least he was explaining the why it was done and that did make it easier for me. It felt a bit like the old Guild Wars 1 patch notes.

Exotics were just too easy to get….based on what they had originally intended. For Guild Wars 1 players this seems like a strange statement, but I’ve always known that this game would need more of a sustained player base to support than Guild Wars 1 would. I’ve said this many times.

So yes, I can accept the ascended gear…because it really doesn’t take as long as you think.

The funny bit is, it’s actually, in some ways, easier to make money now that it has ever been, because even some of the low level mats now have value again. It’s another stream of revenue for people who don’t care about getting an ascended item. You can get the mats and make the items without leveling all the way to 500 (you only have to get to 450) and you can still enjoy everything in the game, because the ascended gear won’t stop you from playing.

But yeah….it’s a dark day for Guild Wars 1 fans who were looking forward to an actual sequel.

Infernia.9847:

I am taking my breather during the SAB content addition. It’s not that I dislike SAB, but the major reason I did it before was for obi shards and not so much total enjoyment of the content. The ascended weapons/crafting to 500 has left me disappointed and disheartened. My guild left en masse over a couple of the issues on the latest patches.
I log in to do the dailies and kind of wander around. I do a scarlet invasion if one pops up. Or I log into a little alt to level and not worry about all the high level gear I won’t be getting for my mains.
I wouldn’t call it burned out yet. I would say it’s just a loss. I’m a little too low on time, a little too low on mats, a little too low on gold, a little too low on guildies.

The game has changed and my playstyle is not really supported any longer. (Multiple main characters, changing builds/gear to refresh the older characters, getting max stat quickly as possible and then work on cosmetics slowly)
I don’t want to give up or give in just yet. I have accepted it and am going forward. It just feels like such a slog compared to the wonder and enjoyment it once was.

Pretty much the same way i feel

I feel I should voice my opinion and weigh in on this as well. I strongly believe this game is no longer what it set out to be. I bought this game because I liked what the developers had promoted. No grinding, no gear treadmills.

Daily and monthly laurel grind, gold grind, ascended weapon materials gathering grind, legendary materials gathering grind, fractal ascended ring grind, guild mission ascended accessory grind….

It’s like they’re piling grinds on top of grinds. This game is choking me.

Spiral Architect.6540:

Morrigan.2809:

<snip>I have lost all desire to log in.

I can do all the things I have been doing- my question is why?
I can see that the game will eventually not support my play style anymore.<snip>

Same here. I used to really enjoy this game, and I thought it had a lot of potential, but since the last patch, I’ve played about 10 minutes. The only reason I can think of to log in now is to tell my guildies they won’t be seeing me around.

Add me to that list, Was a good game till Nov last year for me, after that it just declined…

I’d just like to add the whole four or so years i played Guildwars i never once complained about it or even needed too, this game has to be made by a different Anet..

For a game you buy once and never have to pay again, unless you value your time enough to spend real money, this game is beyond brilliant. The amount of work the A-Net team does on a daily basis to give FOR FREE to players is astounding.

The amount of hate and vitriol I see on these forums by sad cases that just wanted GW1 with better graphics just saddens me.

The game has changed, and as any living world it should change, all the time.

Trajan.4953:

For a game you buy once and never have to pay again, unless you value your time enough to spend real money, this game is beyond brilliant. The amount of work the A-Net team does on a daily basis to give FOR FREE to players is astounding.

It doesn’t matter that it’s free. If we don’t enjoy it, it’s not worth it.

Trajan.4953:

The amount of hate and vitriol I see on these forums by sad cases that just wanted GW1 with better graphics just saddens me.

We were promised GW1 with better graphics. And we mostly got it at release.

Trajan.4953:

The game has changed, and as any living world it should change, all the time.

You shouldn’t change the core of the game like that. It feels like playing a completely different game, one I won’t enjoy now.

It doesn’t matter that it’s free. If we don’t enjoy it, it’s not worth it.

It matters because you have no Sub to hold as hostage

We were promised GW1 with better graphics. And we mostly got it at release.

Nope, you need to go watch some youtubez.

You shouldn’t change the core of the game like that. It feels like playing a completely different game, one I won’t enjoy now.

GW1 is still up and running.

Trajan.4953:

GW1 is still up and running.

I never played GW back in the day but I bought a boxed set back in November when Ascended was originally introduced.
I was trying to log into my account just now but for some reason my password won’t work.
Anyway I was thinking to actually just go do that, play GW for a bit, or Minecraft :P

Vayne.8563:

There’s been an awful lot of talk about how this game has changed…much of it negative. And I can see where people are coming from. A lot of the changes in the game has made it less fun and more grind. While the grind is optional…it’s only borderline optional. That is to say, there’s pressure to get achievements, pressure to get certain gear. If some of that pressure is self-inflicted by players, well, it’s still pressure.

But there have also been some changes for the better, too. A lot of people don’t like guild missions, but having done the guild puzzles now…I think that’s brilliant content.

So many advances to the game have been made… not just stuff like Fractals or the AC revamp, but also stuff like marketplace preview, the account wallet, the ability to target something even if you’re not in a group, the end of culling, zone wide invasions, the mini game rotation, the living story. Indeed, this game is hardly recognizable as the game that originally drew many of us here.

Whether you like the changes or not is an individual decision. Naturally if you don’t like them, you have a right to complain about them. But I’ve never played any MMO that hasn’t changed drastically and I’ve never played any MMO where people didn’t cry the sky was falling every time a change was made. This is normal for the MMO genre.

Games change and evolve all the time. You have a choice when they do to leave or stay, to complain or accept. Those are your choices.

This game has changed a whole lot since its release. Whether those changes have been a mistake or not is largely a matter of opinion.

The over-riding question is why has so much changed? What has caused these changes to occur. Some people say greed. Some people say that Anet is catering to a small but vocal minority. Others claim that Anet is trying to satisfy everyone. Others say Anet is trying to appease the content locusts, or the gear grinders.

Without knowing their reasons for change, I don’t see how we can judge the change. And, for the most part, Anet isn’t sharing their reasons.

I think it would be nice of patch notes would include not just changes, but notes behind the rational for changes.

I think this might help diffuse some of reactions people have to them.

This is actually another one of my issues apart from the introduced grind – the frequent moving of goalposts. Maybe as Vayne has mentioned this is symptomatic of the MMO genre where classes undergo massive changes 6 months after release that aren’t bug fixes and are still on-going. Thus, I do not believe I will participating in any MMO with the possible exception of The Secret World which I want to complete just for the story and Defiance for the Coop third person shooter.

Vayne.8563:

Exotics were just too easy to get….based on what they had originally intended.

Based on what they now say they originally intended, not actually on what they originally intended (as evidenced by their pre-Ascended and pre-launch public statements).

Vayne.8563:

There’s been an awful lot of talk about how this game has changed…much of it negative. And I can see where people are coming from. A lot of the changes in the game has made it less fun and more grind.

Too little fun, too much grind. Too much forced time consuming content in Living Story that stops people from enjoying WvW, PvP or even maps exploration. It should have been 1 update per month and it would be nice.
Daily and monthly achievements have co cap so Achievements have no meaning anymore, new crafting sucks all the money from your corpse and gem store wants more cash on transmutation crystals (and I used more than 50 on all my characters for exotics)

So in the end. It’s all work toward some distant goals that only money makers who rule on TP can get and normal players are leaving like my friends so I’m kinda next in line…

That changed in my experience of the game.

I think people are getting carried away with what they CAN do compared to what they HAVE to do…

Just because something is there it doesn’t mean it has to be for everyone. The hardcore grind is there for those who WANT to do it, it does not impact as much as is made out for those who do not have the time or inclination to do this sort of grind.

At the end of the day, people will always find something to complain about but personally as long as they keep things for the more casual gamers to do without being disadvantaged and have optional content for those who can spend more time/effort doing it to keep them occupied then so be it, I won’t have a problem. If they start down the track of handicapping those casual players who can’t grind gear out then yes I will have an issue. But as it now stands all I can see is they are trying to cover content for everyone and give people something to do no matter how much or little they play and that is a good thing.

Most of the changes have been for the better (for me), but they tend to be less lauded by Anet and thus overlooked. Also, I’d agree many should have been in from inception, but that’s a lost point now.

I’m happy playing the game, but it needs to get back to its roots with storytelling and lore. There’s an interesting thread in the LW subforum discussing how the GW1 lore is being rewritten by the writers and the current LW story isn’t working (with some very constructive points). Much of it comes down to the writers saying they are struggling with time, partly proving the change to 2 week content was the worse change for me – it was unneccesary and unrequired.

Have they U-turned on grind/tier etc? Yes to an extent (the game is still as playable w/o any grind whatsoever we often forget). It wasn’t an outright lie by them, they just had to change their business model to fit the metrics they were seeing. It’s a shame, but it’s likely they are were overly optimistic a non-grindy game could survive long term. They were a victim of their own hype I fear.

ALtohugh I enjoy it, the game needs to get back to some core principles of exploration of new zones, build making/new skills and Dragons (remember those?) as part of the story not some suddenly appearing sat morning cartoon villain that although had trained from every race in the world, was unknown until a few weeks ago…

Vayne.8563:

<snip>

But after hearing Colin’s Pax interview, the whole thing sat a bit easier with me. I still don’t love the idea. But I felt at least he was explaining the why it was done and that did make it easier for me. It felt a bit like the old Guild Wars 1 patch notes.

Exotics were just too easy to get….based on what they had originally intended.

<snip>

I’ll quote myself from another thread:

Spiral Architect.6540:

I don’t really buy that. If exotics were truly not intended to be so easy to get, why did they make them craftable? Why did they make them available for dungeon tokens? Why did they include them in the drop tables?

And then there’s this, taken from here :

“Colin Johanson: Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours. It’s all about collecting the unique looking stuff and collecting all the other rare collectable items in the game: armour pieces, potentially different potions – a lot of that is still up in the air and we’ll finalise a lot of those reward systems as we get closer to release. And those come off of things like the bosses at the end of dungeons – the raids.”

Colin’s statement at PAX strikes me as just spin and smokescreen, concocted to try and get people to shut up about ArenaNet’s about face on the ascended gear release.