Guild Wars 2

Namu.5712:

fixit.7189:

Yea, I am not quitting. I will grind in PvE like a good little hampster so I can go back to Wv3 eventually. Not going to like doin that tho, it will be forced on me.

And also I will have to somehow figure out how I am going to come up with a couple 1000 gold so I can afford to buy legendary weapon sets. I need at least 3 to start (1 staff + 2x daggers). This is going not going to be enjoyable at all. Guess I could spend RL cash like most….but I don’t wanna…

Guys, you aren’t reading.

Though lied to already but:
Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content.

“Over time” means what, exactly? After the Dungeon crew has had their shot at them?

Oh, so like WoW where those at the high end of the raiding curve get access to all the new shinies, and then everyone else does once they have moved on to the next set?

There are a thousand ways to fix this.

TheIronFistOfDeath.3016:

Urxx.6840:

TheIronFistOfDeath.3016:

I see no problem with ascended gear so long as it doesn’t become a requirement to play content.

It will become more and more of a requirement to play an increasing amount of content

Unless it doesn’t.

Don’t you love circular rhetoric?

Please read, and read it again if needs to:

“This extremely dangerous condition ticks percentages of player health away and can’t be cleansed by normal means. Players who wish to delve deep into the Fractals will find that Agony makes progress increasingly difficult, until they reach the point where some defense against this condition is a must. The only way to mitigate Agony damage is by building up resistance through Infusions, a new type of upgrade component that can be acquired in the Mystic Forge.”

“Infusions are a special new type of Upgrade Component that can only be slotted into special Infusion slots on gear…For now, Infusions slots can only be found in gear of a new rarity type: Ascended.”

So yes, it does “become a requirement to play content”.

Namu.5712:

Its all part of the ride for me. I view this situation alot differently I think. I don’t really support a gear treadmill. But I am not hurt about my exotic sets not being the best anymore. I would be pissed if I lost my 100% explored though……I hunted for some of those spots! :P

I respect the fact you see things differently. But there are things that are objectively wrong, and even if those wrong things for some reason don’t disturb you, who does them is still making a mistake.

The way you would react if they took your 100% world exploration shows just that: it’s the same principle, applied to something you happen to accept less than having to get a new tier of gear.

TheIronFistOfDeath.3016:

Urxx.6840:

TheIronFistOfDeath.3016:

I see no problem with ascended gear so long as it doesn’t become a requirement to play content.

It will become more and more of a requirement to play an increasing amount of content

Unless it doesn’t.

Don’t you love circular rhetoric?

They already said it will. Without infusions you can only get so far in the new content. The only way to get infusions is with ascended gear. They also said that in future they will add new infusions with new content which means if you want to enjoy said new content, you will need ascended gear.

so basicly Anet is now saying.

“get legendary, or deal with grinding out new gear constantly” so people will ignore exotics (get the easy ones forget the hard ones) as a goal and just save mats and money for the Legendary.

Until Anet announces that due to popular player demand (yeah right) legendary are no longer BIS and you must now get the xxxx of Ultimate Souls! Its only 8% better….

Ascended weapons, or so they say will be equal in raw stats to a legendary but the difference is that the legendary will be able to use sigils which makes them much much better out side of this new content. But they also said that Legendaries will always be BiS which means they will have the best stats. This is really really confusing, actually.

Right now, there is no difference between exos and legendaries other than looks. That changes soon; legendaries become ‘must have’ and not ‘optional’.

Again….not cool man. Not cool.

stof.9341:

Pants.8315:

Jezath.7395:

Krone.4605:

can someone explain me, why should i even try crafting exotic armor if i would have to grind for ascended one?

The same reason you would grind for greens before you get exotic in my eyes.

The fact that the armour will last you at the very least a month, if not 2 or 3 or more before ascended gear is introduced to replace a whole set…

I’ve been farming for 2-3 months now to get some T3 and the correct exotic set. I had already achieved one OK exotic set and one MF and now I’m nearly to the point I could get one piece of the T3 set, the most expensive one.

I don’t need a stupid armor that lasts me a month or two only and costs me as much as one T3 part. I need that money for the later. And for the legendaries after. And the set swaps for different builds.

T3 is and always has been purely cosmetic, why does it matter? You can apply it to your gear as and when you replace it.

Your stat specific Exotics will aid you in clearing new content to get the replacement parts when they are released, which is on an entirely unspecified time scale.

If your planning on doing a Legendary grind, none of these changes affect you, just carry on, it will scale anyway?

Sky.9347:

Namu.5712:

fixit.7189:

Yea, I am not quitting. I will grind in PvE like a good little hampster so I can go back to Wv3 eventually. Not going to like doin that tho, it will be forced on me.

And also I will have to somehow figure out how I am going to come up with a couple 1000 gold so I can afford to buy legendary weapon sets. I need at least 3 to start (1 staff + 2x daggers). This is going not going to be enjoyable at all. Guess I could spend RL cash like most….but I don’t wanna…

Guys, you aren’t reading.

Though lied to already but:
Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content.

“Over time” means what, exactly? After the Dungeon crew has had their shot at them?

Oh, so like WoW where those at the high end of the raiding curve get access to all the new shinies, and then everyone else does once they have moved on to the next set?

There are a thousand ways to fix this.

Not sure what your implying… like at first its only available in the dungeon then everywhere else?

If thats what you meant I dont think thats the case. I think what it means is that there are several ways to get them them. And more will become available over time…. because they aren’t putting a whole new set in today… only 2 pieces and they are accessories not even armor or anything.

cherrie.8907:

Naoko.7096:

Euthil.5209:

Now, this so called "fashion treadmill" is only a treadmill if _you_ make it out to be, since beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Yes. Exactly. Same for "gear treadmill" is only a treadmill if you make it out to be.
Imo, ascended is not a form of treadmill, but a progression.

Game with Treadmill : Carrot on the stick while the carrot is the content/goal. This means no matter how much you grind, you can never reach the content and goal.

Game with Progression : There’s a line of carrots by the road. Once you ate the carrot, there is another. You walk to each one at a time. You progresses.

Game without Progression : All the carrots are given to you. Once you ate all the carrots, you feel full. There’s no more carrots there. You decided to move on to another place (game) to find another batch of carrots. - All console games are like this.
-------------
"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" is exactly the reason why skin progression isn’t effective in end-game. Once players are satisfied with their armor looks, they have no more reasons to play even when there’s more skins content unlock. Players can wear only one set of looks anyway. They can still play the game, but with no goals left.

I don’t know about other players but personally, I find it extremely demotivating to play a game with no goals or rewards. When there’s no goals, I start to find it pointless and the content became tasteless. The game knows the best when there’s no more goals. We can see a drop of players in maps after they reached the wall. Players who used to play 5 hours per day only start to log in once every few days after they feel full satisfaction.

You are wrong, and very much so.

Empiric proof: GW1 was a success. The game hasn’t died even when no new content was added for 5+ years and only treadmill was the fashion one, and it was such a success that ANet decided to make another game like it, just better. People played for years with no stats progression whatsoever.

Gear treadmill is not "in the eye of the beholder", as better gear is tangibly better: higher stats mean higher performance.

GW2 was indeed to be about progression, but not in stats or levels. it was to be a horizontal progression.
But simply saying "what we’re doing is not treadmill/vertical progression, it just character progression" does not change the facts.

This game has - and GW1 had - goals and rewards and plenty of them.
If *you* didn’t like their type, why did you buy this game or why didn’t *you* and players like you leave for games that offered what you wanted? As you can see in this thread (and by GW1 success) such design perfectly satisfied a lot of people.

Umm.. did you know why I bought up "beauty is the eye of the beholder" in relation to skin progression?

It’s because you’re missing the point. That phrase means that among 10 skins, one player may like the 2nd skin, the other may like the 8th skin. Once you like that one skin and apply it to yourself, *you don’t want other skins anymore*.

E.g. You already wear a full cultural armor and love it so much. You don’t want to change your look anymore. Then, it’s pointless to do dungeons anymore because it’s reward is just skins which you will throw to the bank. Content is one, but the reason to repeat/farm it is another. Maybe you can explore once for the experience and that’s about it. The whole carrot has been eaten and you become full. But when you grow hungry again, there’s no more carrot to eat.
----------------------------------
Yes, GW1 is a success.
One thing you missed out is that you can’t compare the both games together in a sense that GW1 has so much less playerbase than GW2. How much is the difference of population between GW1 and GW2? Do you want GW2 (a F2P high graphic and high maintenance game) to have GW1’s population? It’s because the game structure looks like it needs a large amount playerbase because of dynamic events - which each map must have some players *inside at the same time* to do together to have the fun element of dynamic events.

Guild Wars 2 has promised to appeal to both hardcore and casual players. I’ll assume Gw1 appeals only to casual players that want a console-game (dead-end wall) feel in a mmo. Their manifesto only said that it won’t be a grinding game where players have to repeat content to achieve what they want. They never said that there won’t be any progression. Progression which means, everytime you achieve a goal (carrot), there must be another goal (carrot). <- That’s a basic need in mmo to contantly keep players feel anticipated and feel like log into the game each day.

Zplus.4217:

TheIronFistOfDeath.3016:

Urxx.6840:

TheIronFistOfDeath.3016:

I see no problem with ascended gear so long as it doesn’t become a requirement to play content.

It will become more and more of a requirement to play an increasing amount of content

Unless it doesn’t.

Don’t you love circular rhetoric?

Please read, and read it again if needs to:

“This extremely dangerous condition ticks percentages of player health away and can’t be cleansed by normal means. Players who wish to delve deep into the Fractals will find that Agony makes progress increasingly difficult, until they reach the point where some defense against this condition is a must. The only way to mitigate Agony damage is by building up resistance through Infusions, a new type of upgrade component that can be acquired in the Mystic Forge.”

“Infusions are a special new type of Upgrade Component that can only be slotted into special Infusion slots on gear…For now, Infusions slots can only be found in gear of a new rarity type: Ascended.”

So yes, it does “become a requirement to play content”.

It’s not a requirement if you can still experience said content without experiencing Agony. Which is possible if you read more into the mechanics of the dungeon. It takes the highest common level achieved in the dungeon amongst the group to determine group difficulty. If 4/5 players are at level 10, and 1 is at level 2, the entire party will be set for level 2 difficulty. One would surmise Agony will likely kick in at higher levels only, and since the dungeon Fractals are randomly chosen, you can experience all 9 fractals without having to deal with Agony, thus being able to experience the entire content. Ascended then isn’t required unless you want to tackle the harder level.

Sdric.8526:

8300+Replies.
90% against a treadmill.
“The community wants a treadmill”

I’m sorry but I really think this is a mistake.
This is no small and ignorable issue people will learn to accept in time.
This is a 180° spin which brakes everything the name Guild Wars ever stood for.

If we can’t stop it, I hope they do realize it in a few month and disable this ascended grind madness again.

Actually they are counting on just this. They are hoping the amount of players that they lose will not impact profits significantly, and that those who do stay, but are opposed will eventually fall in line and accept about what has transpired.

Then the next time they raise stats on gear, they can point back to this and say….see it wasn’t that bad. They are setting precident. It’s a hook, and a line with a shiney new ring as bait.

Zplus.4217:

TheIronFistOfDeath.3016:

Urxx.6840:

TheIronFistOfDeath.3016:

I see no problem with ascended gear so long as it doesn’t become a requirement to play content.

It will become more and more of a requirement to play an increasing amount of content

Unless it doesn’t.

Don’t you love circular rhetoric?

Please read, and read it again if needs to:

“This extremely dangerous condition ticks percentages of player health away and can’t be cleansed by normal means. Players who wish to delve deep into the Fractals will find that Agony makes progress increasingly difficult, until they reach the point where some defense against this condition is a must. The only way to mitigate Agony damage is by building up resistance through Infusions, a new type of upgrade component that can be acquired in the Mystic Forge.”

“Infusions are a special new type of Upgrade Component that can only be slotted into special Infusion slots on gear…For now, Infusions slots can only be found in gear of a new rarity type: Ascended.”

So yes, it does “become a requirement to play content”.

“Increasingly difficult” does not mean “unbeatable.” If you wanted everything handed to you, play D3. You can just buy whatever you want and don’t have to worry about the scary difficulty. It’s incredibly vague wording that leaves much to interpretation. Apparently, as MMO players often do, they’ve taken the absolute worst (and frankly, ridiculous) interpretation, accepted it as fact, then reacted.

Hell, since everyone is so bent on this “they promised us this 3 months ago and now they’re changing it. cry cry cry” b.s., it stands to reason this may also change after it’s been fully fleshed out.

Sdric.8526:

8300+Replies.
90% against a treadmill.
“The community wants a treadmill”

I’m sorry but I really think this is a mistake.
This is no small and ignorable issue people will learn to accept in time.
This is a 180° spin which brakes everything the name Guild Wars ever stood for.

If we can’t stop it, I hope they do realize it in a few month and disable this ascended grind madness again.

You need to look carefully at the thread, 95% are not against it… Alot of it is a discussion about this from the same people. the ones thatare against it as you ay are not all against the actual content either, they are discussing the fact that they may have been lied too..

So please read the thread before making false statements like that. its just scaremongering.

Jezath.7395:

Sdric.8526:

8300+Replies.
90% against a treadmill.
“The community wants a treadmill”

I’m sorry but I really think this is a mistake.
This is no small and ignorable issue people will learn to accept in time.
This is a 180° spin which brakes everything the name Guild Wars ever stood for.

If we can’t stop it, I hope they do realize it in a few month and disable this ascended grind madness again.

You need to look carefully at the thread, 95% are not against it… Alot of it is a discussion about this from the same people. the ones thatare against it as you ay are not all against the actual content either, they are discussing the fact that they may have been lied too..

So please read the thread before making false statements like that. its just scaremongering.

Well said, alot of these posts are repeat posters. I’ve posted alot on here, and so have many others. You cannot use post count as a metric.

Edited for bad spelling in the morning

tkalamba.2541:

Zplus.4217:

TheIronFistOfDeath.3016:

Urxx.6840:

TheIronFistOfDeath.3016:

I see no problem with ascended gear so long as it doesn’t become a requirement to play content.

It will become more and more of a requirement to play an increasing amount of content

Unless it doesn’t.

Don’t you love circular rhetoric?

Please read, and read it again if needs to:

“This extremely dangerous condition ticks percentages of player health away and can’t be cleansed by normal means. Players who wish to delve deep into the Fractals will find that Agony makes progress increasingly difficult, until they reach the point where some defense against this condition is a must. The only way to mitigate Agony damage is by building up resistance through Infusions, a new type of upgrade component that can be acquired in the Mystic Forge.”

“Infusions are a special new type of Upgrade Component that can only be slotted into special Infusion slots on gear…For now, Infusions slots can only be found in gear of a new rarity type: Ascended.”

So yes, it does “become a requirement to play content”.

It’s not a requirement if you can still experience said content without experiencing Agony. Which is possible if you read more into the mechanics of the dungeon. It takes the highest common level achieved in the dungeon amongst the group to determine group difficulty. If 4/5 players are at level 10, and 1 is at level 2, the entire party will be set for level 2 difficulty. One would surmise Agony will likely kick in at higher levels only, and since the dungeon Fractals are randomly chosen, you can experience all 9 fractals without having to deal with Agony, thus being able to experience the entire content. Ascended then isn’t required unless you want to tackle the harder level.

Yup, its not really required gear. Since the dungeon is in fact progressive. If you beat it and decide to keep going you will get to a point where you then need it. So really it is optional gear, and offers progression to those that like that sort of thing.

Casuals can experience the content, do it how they please.
If you want to do the same content but harder you are required to build your character up.

I actually think thats perfectly reasonable as it does cater to casual players and progressive type players. You both get the same content you both get to do it.

So the issue really is what about WvW.

@Naoko

You are the problem with MMO’s today. We don’t need a carrot, the whole point of GW was to remove or rather let us eat the carrot instead of endlessly chasing it. Again, trillions of other posters have said this but let me be clear with it: if you want grind, pandaland is that way —-→

This game should cater to GW players, nothing else. It’s been proven time and time again that you cannot possibly cater to both crowds so ANet should just stick to their guns and keep GW the way it was originally, the GW playerbase will stay forever, the game may not have 10mil subs but we will be happy and content.

Although it’s clear that it’s no longer about the players or making an amazing unique game but getting as many people playing as possible, aka revenue.

Namu, its called planning for the future. Start working on legendaries or get left behind is the new motto for GW2. Already said they are adding more and more of this stuff as a ‘gear initiative’ which is super secret code for: hi guis, I hope u love treadmills cus here it comes!

Sky.9347:

Namu.5712:

fixit.7189:

Ok you take one group with 36% more stats over all due to having full sets of new gears/weapons vs another group that does not have that stuff....

Tell me, who will win in pure numbers?

Oh you say it’s only 2 rings and a back slot, silly! Then I point out they explicitly said they are not only adding a full set with accompanied weapons but ALSO with mutiple ’tiers’ and more legendaries on top of that.

So now you want to not play and not be left behind in stats or gear... oh dear... C’mon if you dont play the gae for 3 months or whatnot ofc you will be left behind, thats perfectly normal and expected...

This game becomes Gear Wars, just like that other game and all it’s clones.

That would be a no thank you for me.

They said it in their announcement post that the gear wouldn’t all be released at once. The only ascended gear being released today is a piece or two.... ill go back and read maybe ive been up to long and im off my rocker o.O. But if they release say 2 pieces every 3 months..... the situation you outlined above is really not gonna happen because most will go after the new pieces.

Most who are at the level cap, who have full sets of good gear (rare or exotic), who enjoy dungeons, who want to grind for Ascended gear (which based on their reasoning will be more difficult than exotics, less than legendary), and who have the privilege to play the game over the next couple months.

Anyone who does not fall into ALL of those categories will be left behind.

Look... If you expect to NOT play this game and still be on par with everyobne your having a pipe dream. I cant beleive that anyone would egnuinley think that would be acceptable. If you dont play the game EXPECT to be l eft behind its perfectly natural. This smacks of people who want everything but dont want to put the effort in.

Cutterslaine.2689:

I’d rather pay a monthly fee and get the Guild Wars 2 I thought I was going to be playing.

Amazing how money clouds vision and really stops a game fulfilling its true potential.

+1

its sad to say, but in any case, my gw2 experience is ending. All this silence give me headache…

for me the discussion is becoming quite simple… If i dont know the future of the game, they can forget my money, i thrust them until now…but if the road is changing i want to know precisely in which direction before buy another Anet product.

This game is becoming a “grind forever or get legendary to avoid grind” ok im no longer intrested in this game anymore…and in no other Anet product.

if its: “we are adding a new tier because the exotic one is too simple to achieve, but its DEFINITELY tha last stats tier we add”… i can say ok… really bad move, but i can continue to thrust you with some reserve, because its only a correction to a bad design choice.

Pants.8315:

stof.9341:

Pants.8315:

Jezath.7395:

Krone.4605:

can someone explain me, why should i even try crafting exotic armor if i would have to grind for ascended one?

The same reason you would grind for greens before you get exotic in my eyes.

The fact that the armour will last you at the very least a month, if not 2 or 3 or more before ascended gear is introduced to replace a whole set…

I’ve been farming for 2-3 months now to get some T3 and the correct exotic set. I had already achieved one OK exotic set and one MF and now I’m nearly to the point I could get one piece of the T3 set, the most expensive one.

I don’t need a stupid armor that lasts me a month or two only and costs me as much as one T3 part. I need that money for the later. And for the legendaries after. And the set swaps for different builds.

T3 is and always has been purely cosmetic, why does it matter? You can apply it to your gear as and when you replace it.

Your stat specific Exotics will aid you in clearing new content to get the replacement parts when they are released, which is on an entirely unspecified time scale.

If your planning on doing a Legendary grind, none of these changes affect you, just carry on, it will scale anyway?

Of course those changes affect me. Legendary is only the weapon and limited to two per char also. Ascended is the whole set and I doubt we’ll be seeing invisible legendary rings one day or another.

So, to remain at top performance, I’d need to regrind a whole armor and jewelry set on top of farming for a legendary weapon or two.

My stat specifics exotics might help in clearing content, but how many people here are saying that Ascended stat boost is minor and completely negligible? Then the stat boost from rare to exotic is too. I’d get a bigger time saving from my goal of T3 armor by not buying exotics and sticking with rares until I get max stat Ascended to replace them.

Basically, and I might be wrong but no matter, I got that exotic MF set I’m pissed of I need to replace with ascended MF and I’m down by the 25g more or less it cost me. I got that “karma armor/crafted jewelry/dungeon weapons” I’m very pissed of I’m out of 250k karma, 15g and how many tokens it cost for the dungeon weapons and I need to replace to remain at top performance. Please note that one of those two sets ARE entirely optional, even if as you said my exotic sets would help in farming the ascended version, only one is required for that task.

I specifically pushed back my the cultural T3 goal back a little to get a set with better stats (better than MF) for WvWvW and dungeons because, what the heck! It’s the best stats ever in the game and I’ll need to buy them after I get the T3, or before it doesn’t matter. How wrong I was :/ It was last week you know.

Sky.9347:

“adding challenging new combat mechanics to end-game content and ways to mitigate those mechanics through gear progression for high-end players”
- Linsey Murdock

Claiming that high end players need gear progression to mitigate mechanics is totally absurd. It is low-end players that want gear progression to mitigate mechanics.

As I have said before…

“Here are some of my problems, and other people probably feel the same way.

In gw1 you hit max level pretty early and get max gear pretty fast. After that you just farm for custom skins.

Gw2 was sold to us as the same type of thing.

So, I had planned on leveling 1 of each class to level 80 and buy them all multiple sets of exotic gear and weapons. Then I was going to mostly play them in WvW and then sometimes explore pve for fun and skins, as new content came out.

A lot of people had already gotten far enough to make lots of sets of exotics and used transmutation stones, believing that this gear would have max stats forever. Some spending a fair amount of money on this and now feel it was wasted and are upset.

The problem now is that the precedent has been set for new tiers of gear being added into the game.

I no longer believe that I will be able to level all classes to 80 and get all of the different sets of gear for them in the time that I want to spend with the game.

Even if I decided I could live with this new gear and filled the inventory of my characters with lots of different sets of gear for WvW, they could then just decide to add a new tier of gear and all my time would have been semi wasted and I would need to farm new gear. I would never be able to trust that my gear had the best stats and I would never use transmutation stones either.

So, pretty much, with this update, the game will no longer be the game that I wanted to play and I will have to quit.

For me to play the way I had planned on playing the game would have to have a firm max tier, or, WvW will have to use pvp gear… or both."

So this has nothing to do with me whining. If the patch goes through it will no longer be the game that I want to play. From my point of view this patch will cause as much disinterest for me as if it was patched into being a racing simulator or an RTS.

I also notice that the few people (defending)calling people names have only posted in this thread as if they are new accounts… I doubt if most of them are even real players of the game.

Namu.5712:

tkalamba.2541:

Zplus.4217:

TheIronFistOfDeath.3016:

Urxx.6840:

TheIronFistOfDeath.3016:

I see no problem with ascended gear so long as it doesn’t become a requirement to play content.

It will become more and more of a requirement to play an increasing amount of content

Unless it doesn’t.

Don’t you love circular rhetoric?

Please read, and read it again if needs to:

“This extremely dangerous condition ticks percentages of player health away and can’t be cleansed by normal means. Players who wish to delve deep into the Fractals will find that Agony makes progress increasingly difficult, until they reach the point where some defense against this condition is a must. The only way to mitigate Agony damage is by building up resistance through Infusions, a new type of upgrade component that can be acquired in the Mystic Forge.”

“Infusions are a special new type of Upgrade Component that can only be slotted into special Infusion slots on gear…For now, Infusions slots can only be found in gear of a new rarity type: Ascended.”

So yes, it does “become a requirement to play content”.

It’s not a requirement if you can still experience said content without experiencing Agony. Which is possible if you read more into the mechanics of the dungeon. It takes the highest common level achieved in the dungeon amongst the group to determine group difficulty. If 4/5 players are at level 10, and 1 is at level 2, the entire party will be set for level 2 difficulty. One would surmise Agony will likely kick in at higher levels only, and since the dungeon Fractals are randomly chosen, you can experience all 9 fractals without having to deal with Agony, thus being able to experience the entire content. Ascended then isn’t required unless you want to tackle the harder level.

Yup, its not really required gear. Since the dungeon is in fact progressive. If you beat it and decide to keep going you will get to a point where you then need it. So really it is optional gear, and offers progression to those that like that sort of thing.

Casuals can experience the content, do it how they please.
If you want to do the same content but harder you are required to build your character up.

I actually think thats perfectly reasonable as it does cater to casual players and progressive type players. You both get the same content you both get to do it.

So the issue really is what about WvW.

Even in WvW the small stat increase is neglible. It’s no different than 2 warriors facing off that are traited differently. There will always be players who will have higher damage ouput, or higher survivability etc. to the point where the +5 stat increase will likely not play any real factor. Even in a 1v1 situation. How does anyone really know their opponent is fully Exotic? There are plenty who never even bothered with Exotic Accessories and can still compete, even in small skirmishes.

fixit.7189:

Namu, its called planning for the future. Start working on legendaries or get left behind is the new motto for GW2. Already said they are adding more and more of this stuff as a ‘gear initiative’ which is super secret code for: hi guis, I hope u love treadmills cus here it comes!

hmmmmm im gonna wait and see how this all pans out before doing anything I think.

TheIronFistOfDeath.3016:

“Increasingly difficult” does not mean “unbeatable.”

Which part of this sentence isn’t clear to you (emphasis added)?

Lindsay Murdock:

Players who wish to delve deep into the Fractals will find that Agony makes progress increasingly difficult, until they reach the point where some defense against this condition is a must.

Do people really think a game can;t have character progression without more levels and gear? WTH!? Simply adding more skills and traits to unlock doesn’t require new levels or gear. You can also add new levels without new gear with new stats. You can also progression without stats or level by adding story content or an upgrade to gear that doesn’t involve RNG or something else.

pregnable.1954:

As I have said before…

“Here are some of my problems, and other people probably feel the same way.

In gw1 you hit max level pretty early and get max gear pretty fast. After that you just farm for custom skins.

Gw2 was sold to us as the same type of thing.

So, I had planned on leveling 1 of each class to level 80 and buy them all multiple sets of exotic gear and weapons. Then I was going to mostly play them in WvW and then sometimes explore pve for fun and skins, as new content came out.

A lot of people had already gotten far enough to make lots of sets of exotics and used transmutation stones, believing that this gear would have max stats forever. Some spending a fair amount of money on this and now feel it was wasted and are upset.

The problem now is that the precedent has been set for new tiers of gear being added into the game.

I no longer believe that I will be able to level all classes to 80 and get all of the different sets of gear for them in the time that I want to spend with the game.

Even if I decided I could live with this new gear and filled the inventory of my characters with lots of different sets of gear for WvW, they could then just decide to add a new tier of gear and all my time would have been semi wasted and I would need to farm new gear. I would never be able to trust that my gear had the best stats and I would never use transmutation stones either.

So, pretty much, with this update, the game will no longer be the game that I wanted to play and I will have to quit.

For me to play the way I had planned on playing the game would have to have a firm max tier, or, WvW will have to use pvp gear… or both."

So this has nothing to do with me whining. If the patch goes through it will no longer be the game that I want to play. From my point of view this patch will cause as much disinterest for me as if it was patched into being a racing simulator or an RTS.

I also notice that the few people (defending)calling people names have only posted in this forum as if they are new accounts… I doubt if most of them are even real players of the game.

People need to stop saying they are setting a precedent.

Every single change sets a precedent… nerfs, buffs etc…. they all set a precedent.

Increasing karma prices for gear? Precendent…. How do we know they wont continue doing this?

Flooding the market with Materials? Precendent… What if they did this with other hard to get mats?

Saying they are setting a precedent doesn’t mean anything when everything they change can set a precedent.

If there is more dps weapons to be had, I must have it. Just like now where I have the best I can get and allows me to do other things rather than grind. You betcha I am going to have to save up to afford the next gear tier. Scary thing is, they will most likely up the bar again…and again and again. Once they break their word once, it’s open season. Anyways, back to grinding to afford the new changes instead of doing what I love…Wv3. /sigh

Or they could just add things that make the game competitive….. the thrill of competition is the same as progression.

tkalamba.2541:

It’s not a requirement if you can still experience said content without experiencing Agony. Which is possible if you read more into the mechanics of the dungeon. It takes the highest common level achieved in the dungeon amongst the group to determine group difficulty. If 4/5 players are at level 10, and 1 is at level 2, the entire party will be set for level 2 difficulty. One would surmise Agony will likely kick in at higher levels only, and since the dungeon Fractals are randomly chosen, you can experience all 9 fractals without having to deal with Agony, thus being able to experience the entire content. Ascended then isn’t required unless you want to tackle the harder level.

Sure, but remember:

“The new additions in November are just the start of our item progression initiative. We’re going to add tons of new high-level content to Guild Wars 2 in the future. As we introduce the new high-level content, we’ll also roll out complimentary Ascended and Legendary items (to say nothing of the other rewards you can earn by playing the content).”

Which means agony will become more and more common in future contents and if you do not have ascended gears, you will miss out more and more contents and getting less rewards than those who has.

Everything begins with a simple step.

Well it’s kinda obvious the Devs aren’t listening/don’t care, we would have a real response to our concerns. Not a rehashed “This is what we are doing regardless”.

Interesting they are willing to alienate a large proportion of their player base but its becoming blatantly obvious this change will be railroaded in.

Maybe they should do a rewrite of the original Manifesto. Seems only fair to any prospective buyer of the game.

I wouldn’t give my invite a friend ticket to anyone until Anet has some fair resolution to this obvious mess.

Namu.5712:

Sky.9347:

Namu.5712:

fixit.7189:

Yea, I am not quitting. I will grind in PvE like a good little hampster so I can go back to Wv3 eventually. Not going to like doin that tho, it will be forced on me.

And also I will have to somehow figure out how I am going to come up with a couple 1000 gold so I can afford to buy legendary weapon sets. I need at least 3 to start (1 staff + 2x daggers). This is going not going to be enjoyable at all. Guess I could spend RL cash like most….but I don’t wanna…

Guys, you aren’t reading.

Though lied to already but:
Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content.

“Over time” means what, exactly? After the Dungeon crew has had their shot at them?

Oh, so like WoW where those at the high end of the raiding curve get access to all the new shinies, and then everyone else does once they have moved on to the next set?

There are a thousand ways to fix this.

Not sure what your implying… like at first its only available in the dungeon then everywhere else?

If thats what you meant I dont think thats the case. I think what it means is that there are several ways to get them them. And more will become available over time…. because they aren’t putting a whole new set in today… only 2 pieces and they are accessories not even armor or anything.

Based on what I have read so far, initially you must do dungeon runs to get Ascended gear, and Mystic Forge stuff to get Infusions.

They then said “over time” they will add it to WvW, Karma, and older content.

Why not initially? Why the delay? I am just looking for answers, Namu.

This is a major, huge deal for a lot of us. We would appreciate some straight talk from the guys who sold us this idea – this game. Based on the lack of that so far (I mean hell, this all started a couple days ago because of some very low key German interview) we can only assume they have completely lost their minds or are being shut out of the decision.

I have to look at what they have released in whole. I put all the pieces together, and it seems EXACTLY like a tiered vertical progression system based around “dungeons first”. I would LOVE to be proved wrong and put in my place by Mike O’Brien or Colin Johansen firing off a post that shows us exactly what is happening here and why.

Zplus.4217:

tkalamba.2541:

It’s not a requirement if you can still experience said content without experiencing Agony. Which is possible if you read more into the mechanics of the dungeon. It takes the highest common level achieved in the dungeon amongst the group to determine group difficulty. If 4/5 players are at level 10, and 1 is at level 2, the entire party will be set for level 2 difficulty. One would surmise Agony will likely kick in at higher levels only, and since the dungeon Fractals are randomly chosen, you can experience all 9 fractals without having to deal with Agony, thus being able to experience the entire content. Ascended then isn’t required unless you want to tackle the harder level.

Sure, but remember:

“The new additions in November are just the start of our item progression initiative. We’re going to add tons of new high-level content to Guild Wars 2 in the future. As we introduce the new high-level content, we’ll also roll out complimentary Ascended and Legendary items (to say nothing of the other rewards you can earn by playing the content).”

Which means agony will become more and more common in future contents and if you do not have ascended gears, you will miss out more and more contents and getting less rewards than those who has.

Everything begins with a simple step.

How do you know it wont all be optional? They are setting it up so that its already optional, and giving you plenty of time to obtain said gear. It’s not like Agony will be a factor in WvW all of a sudden…

TheIronFistOfDeath.3016:

Zplus.4217:

TheIronFistOfDeath.3016:

Urxx.6840:

TheIronFistOfDeath.3016:

I see no problem with ascended gear so long as it doesn’t become a requirement to play content.

It will become more and more of a requirement to play an increasing amount of content

Unless it doesn’t.

Don’t you love circular rhetoric?

Please read, and read it again if needs to:

“This extremely dangerous condition ticks percentages of player health away and can’t be cleansed by normal means. Players who wish to delve deep into the Fractals will find that Agony makes progress increasingly difficult, until they reach the point where some defense against this condition is a must. The only way to mitigate Agony damage is by building up resistance through Infusions, a new type of upgrade component that can be acquired in the Mystic Forge.”

“Infusions are a special new type of Upgrade Component that can only be slotted into special Infusion slots on gear…For now, Infusions slots can only be found in gear of a new rarity type: Ascended.”

So yes, it does “become a requirement to play content”.

“Increasingly difficult” does not mean “unbeatable.” If you wanted everything handed to you, play D3. You can just buy whatever you want and don’t have to worry about the scary difficulty. It’s incredibly vague wording that leaves much to interpretation. Apparently, as MMO players often do, they’ve taken the absolute worst (and frankly, ridiculous) interpretation, accepted it as fact, then reacted.

Hell, since everyone is so bent on this “they promised us this 3 months ago and now they’re changing it. cry cry cry” b.s., it stands to reason this may also change after it’s been fully fleshed out.

No you are not reading it, here let me pick it out for you, bit like in D3 where you can just buy and the AH will deliver, whine and I shall quote: “defense against this condition is a must”

tkalamba.2541:

pregnable.1954:

As I have said before…

“Here are some of my problems, and other people probably feel the same way.

In gw1 you hit max level pretty early and get max gear pretty fast. After that you just farm for custom skins.

Gw2 was sold to us as the same type of thing.

So, I had planned on leveling 1 of each class to level 80 and buy them all multiple sets of exotic gear and weapons. Then I was going to mostly play them in WvW and then sometimes explore pve for fun and skins, as new content came out.

A lot of people had already gotten far enough to make lots of sets of exotics and used transmutation stones, believing that this gear would have max stats forever. Some spending a fair amount of money on this and now feel it was wasted and are upset.

The problem now is that the precedent has been set for new tiers of gear being added into the game.

I no longer believe that I will be able to level all classes to 80 and get all of the different sets of gear for them in the time that I want to spend with the game.

Even if I decided I could live with this new gear and filled the inventory of my characters with lots of different sets of gear for WvW, they could then just decide to add a new tier of gear and all my time would have been semi wasted and I would need to farm new gear. I would never be able to trust that my gear had the best stats and I would never use transmutation stones either.

So, pretty much, with this update, the game will no longer be the game that I wanted to play and I will have to quit.

For me to play the way I had planned on playing the game would have to have a firm max tier, or, WvW will have to use pvp gear… or both."

So this has nothing to do with me whining. If the patch goes through it will no longer be the game that I want to play. From my point of view this patch will cause as much disinterest for me as if it was patched into being a racing simulator or an RTS.

I also notice that the few people (defending)calling people names have only posted in this forum as if they are new accounts… I doubt if most of them are even real players of the game.

People need to stop saying they are setting a precedent.

Every single change sets a precedent… nerfs, buffs etc…. they all set a precedent.

Increasing karma prices for gear? Precendent…. How do we know they wont continue doing this?

Flooding the market with Materials? Precendent… What if they did this with other hard to get mats?

Saying they are setting a precedent doesn’t mean anything when everything they change can set a precedent.

People are saying it is a precedent because that is what it is.

I am not even sure if what you have written counts as an argument against anything.

The only thing I can see your post targeting is maybe the dictionary.

I stand by my statement and am not in favor of this update at all.

They can either scrap it and or make WvW use pvp gear. If not then I will play another game… it is pretty simple.

Jezath.7395:

Sky.9347:

Namu.5712:

fixit.7189:

Ok you take one group with 36% more stats over all due to having full sets of new gears/weapons vs another group that does not have that stuff….

Tell me, who will win in pure numbers?

Oh you say it’s only 2 rings and a back slot, silly! Then I point out they explicitly said they are not only adding a full set with accompanied weapons but ALSO with mutiple ‘tiers’ and more legendaries on top of that.

So now you want to not play and not be left behind in stats or gear… oh dear… C’mon if you dont play the gae for 3 months or whatnot ofc you will be left behind, thats perfectly normal and expected…

This game becomes Gear Wars, just like that other game and all it’s clones.

That would be a no thank you for me.

They said it in their announcement post that the gear wouldn’t all be released at once. The only ascended gear being released today is a piece or two…. ill go back and read maybe ive been up to long and im off my rocker o.O. But if they release say 2 pieces every 3 months….. the situation you outlined above is really not gonna happen because most will go after the new pieces.

Most who are at the level cap, who have full sets of good gear (rare or exotic), who enjoy dungeons, who want to grind for Ascended gear (which based on their reasoning will be more difficult than exotics, less than legendary), and who have the privilege to play the game over the next couple months.

Anyone who does not fall into ALL of those categories will be left behind.

Look… If you expect to NOT play this game and still be on par with everyobne your having a pipe dream. I cant beleive that anyone would egnuinley think that would be acceptable. If you dont play the game EXPECT to be l eft behind its perfectly natural. This smacks of people who want everything but dont want to put the effort in.

“It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.”
Mike O’Brien
President and Co-Founder of ArenaNet
Executive Producer of Guild Wars 2

tkalamba.2541:

How do you know it wont all be optional? They are setting it up so that its already optional, and giving you plenty of time to obtain said gear. It’s not like Agony will be a factor in WvW all of a sudden…

It depends on what you do. If you bought GW2 mainly for PVE, it will be less and less optional. In the beginning the content you won’t be able to do will be minimal, but in time it will increase.

And it’s not merely a matter of how much content either: the content you won’t able to do will be the most recent and new, and so the most desirable.

Sky.9347:

Jezath.7395:

Sky.9347:

Namu.5712:

fixit.7189:

Ok you take one group with 36% more stats over all due to having full sets of new gears/weapons vs another group that does not have that stuff….

Tell me, who will win in pure numbers?

Oh you say it’s only 2 rings and a back slot, silly! Then I point out they explicitly said they are not only adding a full set with accompanied weapons but ALSO with mutiple ‘tiers’ and more legendaries on top of that.

So now you want to not play and not be left behind in stats or gear… oh dear… C’mon if you dont play the gae for 3 months or whatnot ofc you will be left behind, thats perfectly normal and expected…

This game becomes Gear Wars, just like that other game and all it’s clones.

That would be a no thank you for me.

They said it in their announcement post that the gear wouldn’t all be released at once. The only ascended gear being released today is a piece or two…. ill go back and read maybe ive been up to long and im off my rocker o.O. But if they release say 2 pieces every 3 months….. the situation you outlined above is really not gonna happen because most will go after the new pieces.

Most who are at the level cap, who have full sets of good gear (rare or exotic), who enjoy dungeons, who want to grind for Ascended gear (which based on their reasoning will be more difficult than exotics, less than legendary), and who have the privilege to play the game over the next couple months.

Anyone who does not fall into ALL of those categories will be left behind.

Look… If you expect to NOT play this game and still be on par with everyobne your having a pipe dream. I cant beleive that anyone would egnuinley think that would be acceptable. If you dont play the game EXPECT to be l eft behind its perfectly natural. This smacks of people who want everything but dont want to put the effort in.

“It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.”
Mike O’Brien
President and Co-Founder of ArenaNet
Executive Producer of Guild Wars 2

Yeah, what a crock of kitten. Famous last words.
RIP GW2 2012 – 2012

Sky.9347:

Jezath.7395:

Sky.9347:

Namu.5712:

fixit.7189:

Ok you take one group with 36% more stats over all due to having full sets of new gears/weapons vs another group that does not have that stuff….

Tell me, who will win in pure numbers?

Oh you say it’s only 2 rings and a back slot, silly! Then I point out they explicitly said they are not only adding a full set with accompanied weapons but ALSO with mutiple ‘tiers’ and more legendaries on top of that.

So now you want to not play and not be left behind in stats or gear… oh dear… C’mon if you dont play the gae for 3 months or whatnot ofc you will be left behind, thats perfectly normal and expected…

This game becomes Gear Wars, just like that other game and all it’s clones.

That would be a no thank you for me.

They said it in their announcement post that the gear wouldn’t all be released at once. The only ascended gear being released today is a piece or two…. ill go back and read maybe ive been up to long and im off my rocker o.O. But if they release say 2 pieces every 3 months….. the situation you outlined above is really not gonna happen because most will go after the new pieces.

Most who are at the level cap, who have full sets of good gear (rare or exotic), who enjoy dungeons, who want to grind for Ascended gear (which based on their reasoning will be more difficult than exotics, less than legendary), and who have the privilege to play the game over the next couple months.

Anyone who does not fall into ALL of those categories will be left behind.

Look… If you expect to NOT play this game and still be on par with everyobne your having a pipe dream. I cant beleive that anyone would egnuinley think that would be acceptable. If you dont play the game EXPECT to be l eft behind its perfectly natural. This smacks of people who want everything but dont want to put the effort in.

“It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.”
Mike O’Brien
President and Co-Founder of ArenaNet
Executive Producer of Guild Wars 2

And this is true. The game will still be fun from moment to moment. It still doesent mean u can not play for 3 months and remain at the same level as everyone else.

A New tier of runes and sigils could negate this entire mess if they stick to keeping them with the stat increase.

or

Ascended gear should have a smaller stat increase since from the look of it you will not be able to put runes or sigils in them. It’s akin putting medallions in your upgrade slots. You’ll have higher stats but no bonuses. But not so much higher that it’s not a trade off. I mean that’s what most specs do you can’t have everything you have to make trade offs. Should be the same idea with Ascended vs Exotics – Ascended give you more stats but get none of the rune/sigil utility. ( Legendarily weapons are a whole other issue since most of them are really ugly )

P.S. Devs, a very detailed informational post on your exact plans for the gear, progression, and where you’re taking us would help cool the fires.

Don’t expect Ascended stuff to take that long to get (I hope…) so it’s only an annoyance to have to PvE for it. But the legendaries being BiS in stats….man that is not going to be cheap to get especially if you use a wide variety of weapons and gears. But like everything, it can be done in hours if you open your wallet and buy all the mats with RL cashola which is (I am sure) the option most people will end up taking and likely why they are doing this in the first place; $$. Working as intended I guess.

Jezath.7395:

Sky.9347:

Jezath.7395:

Sky.9347:

Namu.5712:

fixit.7189:

Ok you take one group with 36% more stats over all due to having full sets of new gears/weapons vs another group that does not have that stuff….

Tell me, who will win in pure numbers?

Oh you say it’s only 2 rings and a back slot, silly! Then I point out they explicitly said they are not only adding a full set with accompanied weapons but ALSO with mutiple ‘tiers’ and more legendaries on top of that.

So now you want to not play and not be left behind in stats or gear… oh dear… C’mon if you dont play the gae for 3 months or whatnot ofc you will be left behind, thats perfectly normal and expected…

This game becomes Gear Wars, just like that other game and all it’s clones.

That would be a no thank you for me.

They said it in their announcement post that the gear wouldn’t all be released at once. The only ascended gear being released today is a piece or two…. ill go back and read maybe ive been up to long and im off my rocker o.O. But if they release say 2 pieces every 3 months….. the situation you outlined above is really not gonna happen because most will go after the new pieces.

Most who are at the level cap, who have full sets of good gear (rare or exotic), who enjoy dungeons, who want to grind for Ascended gear (which based on their reasoning will be more difficult than exotics, less than legendary), and who have the privilege to play the game over the next couple months.

Anyone who does not fall into ALL of those categories will be left behind.

Look… If you expect to NOT play this game and still be on par with everyobne your having a pipe dream. I cant beleive that anyone would egnuinley think that would be acceptable. If you dont play the game EXPECT to be l eft behind its perfectly natural. This smacks of people who want everything but dont want to put the effort in.

“It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.”
Mike O’Brien
President and Co-Founder of ArenaNet
Executive Producer of Guild Wars 2

And this is true. The game will still be fun from moment to moment. It still doesent mean u can not play for 3 months and remain at the same level as everyone else.

“So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.”

Mike O’Brien
President and Co-Founder of Arena Net
Executive Producer of Guild Wars 2

No matter how everyone who “like” treadmill gear tend to proove that the ascended stat boost, and worse, the legendary stat boost in not a gear treadmill.

The fact IS

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it,
that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game.
Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”
-Mike Obrien, President of Arenanet.

No matter how you are saying that.

Ascended stat boost compare to exotic + legendary stat over boost = gear treadmill.

Ascended armor SHOULD NOT have better stats. legendary SHOULD NOT have better stats than exotic.

Even if its not 90% against the treadmill, its at least 80% without a lot of doubt.
Did Anet prefer listen the 15-20% of “hardcore stat gear farmer” of the 80-85% of the player who bought GW2 BECAUSE of not gear treadmill ?

OR.

To make everyone happy, Anet should do like in GW1
Create a merchant, who sell item with ascended stat, and legendary stats very cheap, but with a basic skin.
Like that hardcore farmer could farm during 1years their own overpowered-ascended-legendary item with the fancy skin
And thoses who HATE the gear farming like me could still have easyly the best stat in game, and not have to worry about the mandatory of this annoying gear farming.

Like in GW1 where we had the lvl 20 armor with stat max for 1k ( it would be like 30-40silver ) and the same lvl 20 armor stat BUT with a really better skin way more expensive.

It will still make the exotic totaly useless, but since Anet want to throw exotic at bin…

pregnable.1954:

tkalamba.2541:

pregnable.1954:

As I have said before…

“Here are some of my problems, and other people probably feel the same way.

In gw1 you hit max level pretty early and get max gear pretty fast. After that you just farm for custom skins.

Gw2 was sold to us as the same type of thing.

So, I had planned on leveling 1 of each class to level 80 and buy them all multiple sets of exotic gear and weapons. Then I was going to mostly play them in WvW and then sometimes explore pve for fun and skins, as new content came out.

A lot of people had already gotten far enough to make lots of sets of exotics and used transmutation stones, believing that this gear would have max stats forever. Some spending a fair amount of money on this and now feel it was wasted and are upset.

The problem now is that the precedent has been set for new tiers of gear being added into the game.

I no longer believe that I will be able to level all classes to 80 and get all of the different sets of gear for them in the time that I want to spend with the game.

Even if I decided I could live with this new gear and filled the inventory of my characters with lots of different sets of gear for WvW, they could then just decide to add a new tier of gear and all my time would have been semi wasted and I would need to farm new gear. I would never be able to trust that my gear had the best stats and I would never use transmutation stones either.

So, pretty much, with this update, the game will no longer be the game that I wanted to play and I will have to quit.

For me to play the way I had planned on playing the game would have to have a firm max tier, or, WvW will have to use pvp gear… or both."

So this has nothing to do with me whining. If the patch goes through it will no longer be the game that I want to play. From my point of view this patch will cause as much disinterest for me as if it was patched into being a racing simulator or an RTS.

I also notice that the few people (defending)calling people names have only posted in this forum as if they are new accounts… I doubt if most of them are even real players of the game.

People need to stop saying they are setting a precedent.

Every single change sets a precedent… nerfs, buffs etc…. they all set a precedent.

Increasing karma prices for gear? Precendent…. How do we know they wont continue doing this?

Flooding the market with Materials? Precendent… What if they did this with other hard to get mats?

Saying they are setting a precedent doesn’t mean anything when everything they change can set a precedent.

People are saying it is a precedent because that is what it is.

I am not even sure if what you have written counts as an argument against anything.

The only thing I can see your post targeting is maybe the dictionary.

I stand by my statement and am not in favor of this update at all.

They can either scrap it and or make WvW use pvp gear. If not then I will play another game… it is pretty simple.

My point is, you can claim everything sets some sort of precedent, doesn’t mean it does.

Fact of the matter is you have no clue what they plan on doing, and in the end it’s their product, and they have all the back end metrics to make decisions on. We don’t. Sure we have our opinions, and everyones differs, but going around saying they are setting a precedent is pretty pointless.

Play the content, if you don’t like it, then make your decision to leave. Don’t just assume off the bat without actually experiencing it that it doesn’t work and that they have altered everything.

tkalamba.2541:

pregnable.1954:

As I have said before…

“Here are some of my problems, and other people probably feel the same way.

In gw1 you hit max level pretty early and get max gear pretty fast. After that you just farm for custom skins.

Gw2 was sold to us as the same type of thing.

So, I had planned on leveling 1 of each class to level 80 and buy them all multiple sets of exotic gear and weapons. Then I was going to mostly play them in WvW and then sometimes explore pve for fun and skins, as new content came out.

A lot of people had already gotten far enough to make lots of sets of exotics and used transmutation stones, believing that this gear would have max stats forever. Some spending a fair amount of money on this and now feel it was wasted and are upset.

The problem now is that the precedent has been set for new tiers of gear being added into the game.

I no longer believe that I will be able to level all classes to 80 and get all of the different sets of gear for them in the time that I want to spend with the game.

Even if I decided I could live with this new gear and filled the inventory of my characters with lots of different sets of gear for WvW, they could then just decide to add a new tier of gear and all my time would have been semi wasted and I would need to farm new gear. I would never be able to trust that my gear had the best stats and I would never use transmutation stones either.

So, pretty much, with this update, the game will no longer be the game that I wanted to play and I will have to quit.

For me to play the way I had planned on playing the game would have to have a firm max tier, or, WvW will have to use pvp gear… or both."

So this has nothing to do with me whining. If the patch goes through it will no longer be the game that I want to play. From my point of view this patch will cause as much disinterest for me as if it was patched into being a racing simulator or an RTS.

I also notice that the few people (defending)calling people names have only posted in this forum as if they are new accounts… I doubt if most of them are even real players of the game.

People need to stop saying they are setting a precedent.

Every single change sets a precedent… nerfs, buffs etc…. they all set a precedent.

Increasing karma prices for gear? Precendent…. How do we know they wont continue doing this?

Flooding the market with Materials? Precendent… What if they did this with other hard to get mats?

Saying they are setting a precedent doesn’t mean anything when everything they change can set a precedent.

It’s changing their stated game philosophy – play it your way – not any more – no gear grind – not any more – multiple paths to a goal – not any more – no exclusion from content based on gear – not any more. And that’s what ppl have an issue with this is not the game I bought if I wanted this tired old format I’d be back in WoW or Rift.

Sky.9347:

Jezath.7395:

Sky.9347:

Jezath.7395:

Sky.9347:

Namu.5712:

fixit.7189:

Ok you take one group with 36% more stats over all due to having full sets of new gears/weapons vs another group that does not have that stuff….

Tell me, who will win in pure numbers?

Oh you say it’s only 2 rings and a back slot, silly! Then I point out they explicitly said they are not only adding a full set with accompanied weapons but ALSO with mutiple ‘tiers’ and more legendaries on top of that.

So now you want to not play and not be left behind in stats or gear… oh dear… C’mon if you dont play the gae for 3 months or whatnot ofc you will be left behind, thats perfectly normal and expected…

This game becomes Gear Wars, just like that other game and all it’s clones.

That would be a no thank you for me.

They said it in their announcement post that the gear wouldn’t all be released at once. The only ascended gear being released today is a piece or two…. ill go back and read maybe ive been up to long and im off my rocker o.O. But if they release say 2 pieces every 3 months….. the situation you outlined above is really not gonna happen because most will go after the new pieces.

Most who are at the level cap, who have full sets of good gear (rare or exotic), who enjoy dungeons, who want to grind for Ascended gear (which based on their reasoning will be more difficult than exotics, less than legendary), and who have the privilege to play the game over the next couple months.

Anyone who does not fall into ALL of those categories will be left behind.

Look… If you expect to NOT play this game and still be on par with everyobne your having a pipe dream. I cant beleive that anyone would egnuinley think that would be acceptable. If you dont play the game EXPECT to be l eft behind its perfectly natural. This smacks of people who want everything but dont want to put the effort in.

“It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.”
Mike O’Brien
President and Co-Founder of ArenaNet
Executive Producer of Guild Wars 2

And this is true. The game will still be fun from moment to moment. It still doesent mean u can not play for 3 months and remain at the same level as everyone else.

“So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.”

Mike O’Brien
President and Co-Founder of Arena Net
Executive Producer of Guild Wars 2

Does that mean I can have my money back if I wanted, if they go down this progression route?

Cutterslaine.2689:

Sky.9347:

Jezath.7395:

Sky.9347:

Jezath.7395:

Sky.9347:

Namu.5712:

fixit.7189:

Ok you take one group with 36% more stats over all due to having full sets of new gears/weapons vs another group that does not have that stuff….

Tell me, who will win in pure numbers?

Oh you say it’s only 2 rings and a back slot, silly! Then I point out they explicitly said they are not only adding a full set with accompanied weapons but ALSO with mutiple ‘tiers’ and more legendaries on top of that.

So now you want to not play and not be left behind in stats or gear… oh dear… C’mon if you dont play the gae for 3 months or whatnot ofc you will be left behind, thats perfectly normal and expected…

This game becomes Gear Wars, just like that other game and all it’s clones.

That would be a no thank you for me.

They said it in their announcement post that the gear wouldn’t all be released at once. The only ascended gear being released today is a piece or two…. ill go back and read maybe ive been up to long and im off my rocker o.O. But if they release say 2 pieces every 3 months….. the situation you outlined above is really not gonna happen because most will go after the new pieces.

Most who are at the level cap, who have full sets of good gear (rare or exotic), who enjoy dungeons, who want to grind for Ascended gear (which based on their reasoning will be more difficult than exotics, less than legendary), and who have the privilege to play the game over the next couple months.

Anyone who does not fall into ALL of those categories will be left behind.

Look… If you expect to NOT play this game and still be on par with everyobne your having a pipe dream. I cant beleive that anyone would egnuinley think that would be acceptable. If you dont play the game EXPECT to be l eft behind its perfectly natural. This smacks of people who want everything but dont want to put the effort in.

“It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment.”
Mike O’Brien
President and Co-Founder of ArenaNet
Executive Producer of Guild Wars 2

And this is true. The game will still be fun from moment to moment. It still doesent mean u can not play for 3 months and remain at the same level as everyone else.

“So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.”

Mike O’Brien
President and Co-Founder of Arena Net
Executive Producer of Guild Wars 2

Does that mean I can have my money back if I wanted, if they go down this progression route?

Sadly no.

tkalamba.2541:

My point is, you can claim everything sets some sort of precedent, doesn’t mean it does.

Fact of the matter is you have no clue what they plan on doing, and in the end it’s their product, and they have all the back end metrics to make decisions on. We don’t. Sure we have our opinions, and everyones differs, but going around saying they are setting a precedent is pretty pointless.

Play the content, if you don’t like it, then make your decision to leave. Don’t just assume off the bat without actually experiencing it that it doesn’t work and that they have altered everything.

You can claim it doesn’t, when the truth of the matter is the opposite:

“The new additions in November are just the start of our item progression initiative.”

Ruby Red.4019:

tkalamba.2541:

pregnable.1954:

As I have said before…

“Here are some of my problems, and other people probably feel the same way.

In gw1 you hit max level pretty early and get max gear pretty fast. After that you just farm for custom skins.

Gw2 was sold to us as the same type of thing.

So, I had planned on leveling 1 of each class to level 80 and buy them all multiple sets of exotic gear and weapons. Then I was going to mostly play them in WvW and then sometimes explore pve for fun and skins, as new content came out.

A lot of people had already gotten far enough to make lots of sets of exotics and used transmutation stones, believing that this gear would have max stats forever. Some spending a fair amount of money on this and now feel it was wasted and are upset.

The problem now is that the precedent has been set for new tiers of gear being added into the game.

I no longer believe that I will be able to level all classes to 80 and get all of the different sets of gear for them in the time that I want to spend with the game.

Even if I decided I could live with this new gear and filled the inventory of my characters with lots of different sets of gear for WvW, they could then just decide to add a new tier of gear and all my time would have been semi wasted and I would need to farm new gear. I would never be able to trust that my gear had the best stats and I would never use transmutation stones either.

So, pretty much, with this update, the game will no longer be the game that I wanted to play and I will have to quit.

For me to play the way I had planned on playing the game would have to have a firm max tier, or, WvW will have to use pvp gear… or both."

So this has nothing to do with me whining. If the patch goes through it will no longer be the game that I want to play. From my point of view this patch will cause as much disinterest for me as if it was patched into being a racing simulator or an RTS.

I also notice that the few people (defending)calling people names have only posted in this forum as if they are new accounts… I doubt if most of them are even real players of the game.

People need to stop saying they are setting a precedent.

Every single change sets a precedent… nerfs, buffs etc…. they all set a precedent.

Increasing karma prices for gear? Precendent…. How do we know they wont continue doing this?

Flooding the market with Materials? Precendent… What if they did this with other hard to get mats?

Saying they are setting a precedent doesn’t mean anything when everything they change can set a precedent.

It’s changing their stated game philosophy – play it your way – not any more – no gear grind – not any more – multiple paths to a goal – not any more – no exclusion from content based on gear – not any more. And that’s what ppl have an issue with this is not the game I bought if I wanted this tired old format I’d be back in WoW or Rift.

You can still play how you want…. You don’t even need Ascended gear if you don’t want it as it isn’t the most beneficial tier, no upgrades means your shoehorned into what stats they give you… you can still achieve your goals anyway you want…. and your still not excluded from content…. you can do all 9 Fractals without needing Ascended gear. I don’t see what content you are then missing out on.