Thoughts on Ascended Gear? [Merged threads]
Grab-bag of comments here.
From the German translated response:
Q: Ascended items fill the time gap, but why does that mean they have to have better stats?
A: They know there are different ways to fill the time gap, and were expecting different opinions on whether stat rises were the right choice—so they aren’t surprised by all the anger right now.
Does this mean they may change their mind, and release the new gear with the same stat level?
As a side note, they are counting on the slow release of Ascended gear to contribute to the feeling of it being a longer-term goal than exotics.
This will fail. Every time it’s released, it’s an IMMEDIATE goal. Just because the whole set will take longer does not change the psychology of desire and reward behind needing to have the best.
If we want transparency from a company, they need to know that their news will be received intelligently and thoughtfully. Many have done so, but a majority have gone right off the deep-end.
To be fair, they did not release the news in a transparent manner. A few days before release, with few details, no requests for feedback from the community, and no meaningful response since the uproar started? This is at best clumsy and inept, and at worst an attempt to push changes through before the outcry becomes too bad (note: if so, it failed. It was always going to. It has failed in every game that tried it, ever. Google “Monoclegate” or read up on http://massively.joystiq.com/tag/monoclegate/ for a good case study on failure to communicate with fans and the results. also, a good study in how to repair the damage). The reason that so many have “gone off the deep end,” is that there’s no time to give feedback and no acknowledgement from the company that feedback is wanted or was ever considered. It’s a blindside strike, and the response is just as reflexive.
“I care nothing for a festering industry that wantonly refuses to
provide a service that I’m willing to purchase.” – Fortuna.7259
provide a service that I’m willing to purchase.” – Fortuna.7259
For the benefit of anyone just watching this thread:
There’s another official ANet response on the German forums. I try to summarize it here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/ANet-post-about-Ascended-items-German-forums/first
with some help from a German speaker (not me)You may want to look here, someone on reddit already took care of it.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/139a4j/official_post_ascended_items_on_german_forums/
Well, Anet clearly want to do a World of GuildCraft game…
They should rename their game into that, and quit the “Guild Wars” name.
Seriously.
VERY desapointing.
Also they knew a majority of the player would be desapointed, but they still do gear treadmill ?
I mean, game dev isnt supposed to make customer happy !?
I dont get it.
“we leave the grind to other MMOs.”
Mike Obrien
Legen – Wait for It – dary joke
Mike Obrien
Legen – Wait for It – dary joke
Grab-bag of comments here.
From the German translated response:
Q: Ascended items fill the time gap, but why does that mean they have to have better stats?
A: They know there are different ways to fill the time gap, and were expecting different opinions on whether stat rises were the right choice—so they aren’t surprised by all the anger right now.Does this mean they may change their mind, and release the new gear with the same stat level?
As a side note, they are counting on the slow release of Ascended gear to contribute to the feeling of it being a longer-term goal than exotics.
This will fail. Every time it’s released, it’s an IMMEDIATE goal. Just because the whole set will take longer does not change the psychology of desire and reward behind needing to have the best.
If we want transparency from a company, they need to know that their news will be received intelligently and thoughtfully. Many have done so, but a majority have gone right off the deep-end.
To be fair, they did not release the news in a transparent manner. A few days before release, with few details, no requests for feedback from the community, and no meaningful response since the uproar started? This is at best clumsy and inept, and at worst an attempt to push changes through before the outcry becomes too bad (note: if so, it failed. It was always going to. It has failed in every game that tried it, ever. Google “Monoclegate” or read up on http://massively.joystiq.com/tag/monoclegate/ for a good case study on failure to communicate with fans and the results. also, a good study in how to repair the damage). The reason that so many have “gone off the deep end,” is that there’s no time to give feedback and no acknowledgement from the company that feedback is wanted or was ever considered. It’s a blindside strike, and the response is just as reflexive.
Inept is definitely the term i’d use for how they handled it. But they can try to recoup this ineptitude with ongoing transparency if they so wish, and there may be room for compromise. Personally i’m excited about the content, i’m looking forwards to new lands etc but the idea of a treadmill is not something I want. I’m just hoping that they gone and dun goof’d with their PR.
Meh.
Depending on how different the stats are, it may bring me back to the game. Lack of gear progression is why i stopped played after hitting 80.
You bought the wrong game. Play pandas.
People will play what they want. Stop telling them that they purchased the wrong game. There is alot this game offers that others don’t that many of us enjoy regardless of the new Ascended gear.
Maybe you haven’t played enough vertical progression based games to know what the experience and community is like, but many of the things this game offers will be less enjoyable with the presence of the new gear.
Many of us who are vehemently against this change have already seen where this road leads you in other games and we love this game too much to see it go down that heavily traveled road.
The people who support this change are really not as much to blame as the developers who are going against the founding philosophy of their company just to implement it.
How is this false advertizing when they NEVER said exotic was going to be the last tier of equipment? They just said this wasn’t going to be a vertical progression game in terms of gear. But as I’ve previously stated there is ALREADY a progression table in place. Up until now exotic has just been the top.
How is adding more tiers not vertical progression?
LF2M Max Ascended Only!
How is having a cash shop open for you to buy whatever you want ill intention? Fusion stones? Purely cosmetic, you could want them for any gear you have. Boosters? They serve a purpose. Mini’s? Purely cosmetic. Town clothes? Purely cosmetic. Bank/Bag expansions? They serve a purpose.
Then finally exchanging gems -> gold. Just because they didn’t announce new gear til the update does not mean they deceived you into buying gold via gems.
I’ve spent over $100 on the cash shop for keys for the boxes, dye packs, boosters, etc. I even traded some gems for gold. Do I feel I’ve been betrayed? Hell no. I spent the money on things I wanted.
There’s new stuff to spend money on? Awesome, more stuff for me to buy.
People were knowingly let to believe exotic is the final tier. They have stated several times that some people have time and some people have money so they have an option for those people to get their gear from the trading post and they want to provide a safe and secure way of buying gold.
So, let me give you a real life example, if I know a stock is going to tank and I encourage people to buy it I am making a criminal offense. It’s called inside trading.
For the record, I haven’t bought gold to buy gear, I haven’t made a single gem→gold transaction but I know people who did and let me tell you, they are not happy about it.
How would you feel if you finally managed to get the last piece of gear you wanted, spent 100€+ on the cash shop only to find out the next day your purchase was made obsolete because “Oops, we made a mistake, sorry guys, tough luck but thank you for your money and please, come again.”
According to your statements you wouldn’t have a problem with it.
What you guys fail to understand with the “We want GW1” argument is that this game is so clearly not GW1.
There’s no GvG
There’s no Guild bases(yet)
There’s no guild capes
There’s no ability to obtain new skills outside of what they give you from the start.
There’s no dual classing
There is dodging
There is a combo system
There is jumping
There are dynamic events
There is multi-guilding.
This is not a carbon copy of guild wars 1.
So if you grinded dungeon gear it gets boosted but all other exotic is no go?
Not nice Anet not nice at all, if that is how I read that.
Ya know maybe if had been a little more forthcoming about this people would be upset. IE say we need to look at prog because of X.
But to drop this info 3 days before it goes live just makes me wonder. I hope it works out for you. I havent decided if I am sticking around or not myself.
I’ve read the responses made on the German forum and I must say, I am still disappointed.
They knew the changes will cause anger and they expected it, but still they decided to make the announcement about the new gear basically as late as possible, thus denying the players any possibility of planning their actions / purchases accordingly. Thanks so much.
They are hoping that “releasing the new gear slowly will mitigate the feeling of a treadmill”. Yes, because they very well know it is a …. treadmill and instead of option for something else, they decided to just try to powder it up as much as possible. How sweet.
I am still asking myself why the whole Infusion Progression business wasn’t bolted down to a new gear slot altogether, leaving almost everyone happy.
Even infusion in itself is a horrendous thing. Every other game that had it had to remove it due to how much players absolutely despised it. Not to mention its negative aspects on gameplay.
I know.
However, Infusion in itself is kind-of separate system easy to remove (like LotRO removed Radiance) and who knows, maybe, just maybe, ANet would manage to pull it off. If not, they could remove it.
But gear upgrade is a one-time thing.Yeah thats why I have repeatedly said if that aspect goes live im done with this game and ip. I could probably live with infusion, even though I have personally experienced similar and know how much of a horrible thing it is. It would only be tolerable because of the fact that it could easily be removed, unlike a new tier of gear.
What I am missing is the clarity we had back in GW1 days.
Certainty there will be no level cap increase, that our gear will never go obsolete stat-wise.I’ve been staying out of this mess, but I just couldn’t let THAT statement go by!
Gaile Gray and the mini polar bear incident DO come to mind to contradict that statement!
For those of you that don’t know: During a Wintersday event, a miniature polar bear (Ursula, I know) was added into the Wintersday chest. You could only get it from that chest which was only available during Wintersday. Someone asked Gaile Gray, GW1’s main PR rep) if it WAS added. She INSISTED that it was not and to not waste your time. Only a few days prior to Wintersday closing, she backtracked and said it WAS added. (You’d have to go back and look at the old stuff to see how poorly it was handled.) Many people were up-in-arms about the whole thing. I learned then and THERE not to trust a word from ANYONE regarding this game (Well, there was also the “favor” incident, which CONFIRMED for me not to trust them, but that’s a whole other Oprah!)
Every time any conversation about ANet clarity back in GW1 days ends with bringing up the Polar Bear.
Probably because it was one of the very few mess ups by Anet back then, though I would probably focus on the insistence there was no exploid / duping mechanism while there was, but let’s clear one thing about Polar Bear:
Yes, Gaile insisted there was no Polar bear, because she was convinced – and actually told after she asked the Team about it, if I’m not mistaken – there was no Polar Bear. So she did her job as best as she could.
This was not a whole facade by ANet to hide existence of Polar Bear. It was a bad instance of PR not being kept up to date.
So please don’t bring that up.
“Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games.”
-Mike Obrien
“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills” -Colin Johanson
-Mike Obrien
“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills” -Colin Johanson
How is having a cash shop open for you to buy whatever you want ill intention? Fusion stones? Purely cosmetic, you could want them for any gear you have. Boosters? They serve a purpose. Mini’s? Purely cosmetic. Town clothes? Purely cosmetic. Bank/Bag expansions? They serve a purpose.
Then finally exchanging gems -> gold. Just because they didn’t announce new gear til the update does not mean they deceived you into buying gold via gems.
I’ve spent over $100 on the cash shop for keys for the boxes, dye packs, boosters, etc. I even traded some gems for gold. Do I feel I’ve been betrayed? Hell no. I spent the money on things I wanted.
There’s new stuff to spend money on? Awesome, more stuff for me to buy.
People were knowingly let to believe exotic is the final tier. They have stated several times that some people have time and some people have money so they have an option for those people to get their gear from the trading post and they want to provide a safe and secure way of buying gold.
So, let me give you a real life example, if I know a stock is going to tank and I encourage people to buy it I am making a criminal offense. It’s called inside trading.
For the record, I haven’t bought gold to buy gear, I haven’t made a single gem->gold transaction but I know people who did and let me tell you, they are not happy about it.
How would you feel if you finally managed to get the last piece of gear you wanted, spent 100€+ on the cash shop only to find out the next day your purchase was made obsolete because “Oops, we made a mistake, sorry guys, tough luck but thank you for your money and please, come again.”
According to your statements you wouldn’t have a problem with it.
I really don’t see an issue behind it. I’ve spent all my in game cash and money from the cash shop before to get the best item I could get only to have an expansion come out a week later that had better gear. Was I a little irritated I had to save more? Yes. Was I crying about my own stupidity? No.
And I’m sorry; but if you spent £100 on equipment in a virtual game that was not necessary, then that’s your fault. Not theirs
What you guys fail to understand with the “We want GW1” argument is that this game is so clearly not GW1.
There’s no GvG
There’s no Guild bases(yet)
There’s no guild capes
There’s no ability to obtain new skills outside of what they give you from the start.
There’s no dual classingThere is dodging
There is a combo system
There is jumping
There are dynamic events
There is multi-guilding.This is not a carbon copy of guild wars 1.
And it shouldn’t be.
But you know, the one thing that truly defined GW1 was the gear and level cap situation.
And, when GW2 was first announced WAY back… they told us this was the ideal they were building it around. They told us it would revolutionize the genre. A lot of things would change between GW1 and GW2, but not this core philosophy.
They even stated things during development to assure us of the philosophy they would use to design and develop the game.
We believed them, and we bought it.
This patch destroys all of that. This patch takes that core philosophy and throws it out the window, which is something they waxed poetic about not doing.
Sky – [tSA] – Stormbluff Isle
November 15, 2012 – The day a dream died.
November 15, 2012 – The day a dream died.
Meh.
Depending on how different the stats are, it may bring me back to the game. Lack of gear progression is why i stopped played after hitting 80.
You bought the wrong game. Play pandas.
People will play what they want. Stop telling them that they purchased the wrong game. There is alot this game offers that others don’t that many of us enjoy regardless of the new Ascended gear.
Maybe you haven’t played enough vertical progression based games to know what the experience and community is like, but many of the things this game offers will be less enjoyable with the presence of the new gear.
Many of us who are vehemently against this change have already seen where this road leads you in other games and we love this game too much to see it go down that heavily traveled road.
The people who support this change are really not as much to blame as the developers who are going against the founding philosophy of their company just to implement it.
All I said was to stop telling people to go play another game. Everyone has their own reason to want to play, saying go play WoW contributes nothing to the discussion, and shows a level a maturity many people don’t want to deal with. It makes the community look childish when you start telling people the bought the wrong game and to play something else. Truth of the matter is, this is a mass market game, with a large audience with different wants and needs. Not everyone wants the exact same thing from it.
Lord Lefteris – Engineer [Sanctum of Rall]
Inept is definitely the term i’d use for how they handled it. But they can try to recoup this ineptitude with ongoing transparency if they so wish, and there may be room for compromise. Personally i’m excited about the content, i’m looking forwards to new lands etc but the idea of a treadmill is not something I want. I’m just hoping that they gone and dun goof’d with their PR.
That’s what I’m hoping as well. They have a really solid track record so far, and there’s a very real possibility that this is all the result of stupidity. If it’s not, and this is stat inflation, I don’t expect I’ll play anymore except to drag alts around to see the world and play with my wife when she’s in the mood. I certainly won’t pay for any more content. Even if it’s just an innocent mistake, I intend to never participate in the new dungeon. It stinks of a monotonous gear grind, and I’d rather be out in the world. They should focus their dev time on revamping Dynamic events- make the chains longer, more impactful, and longer lasting. A long escalating chain like that, which gets harder as you go and the longer it’s been active- would make for much better progression content then a repetitive dungeon.
“I care nothing for a festering industry that wantonly refuses to
provide a service that I’m willing to purchase.” – Fortuna.7259
provide a service that I’m willing to purchase.” – Fortuna.7259
How is having a cash shop open for you to buy whatever you want ill intention? Fusion stones? Purely cosmetic, you could want them for any gear you have. Boosters? They serve a purpose. Mini’s? Purely cosmetic. Town clothes? Purely cosmetic. Bank/Bag expansions? They serve a purpose.
Then finally exchanging gems -> gold. Just because they didn’t announce new gear til the update does not mean they deceived you into buying gold via gems.
I’ve spent over $100 on the cash shop for keys for the boxes, dye packs, boosters, etc. I even traded some gems for gold. Do I feel I’ve been betrayed? Hell no. I spent the money on things I wanted.
There’s new stuff to spend money on? Awesome, more stuff for me to buy.
People were knowingly let to believe exotic is the final tier. They have stated several times that some people have time and some people have money so they have an option for those people to get their gear from the trading post and they want to provide a safe and secure way of buying gold.
So, let me give you a real life example, if I know a stock is going to tank and I encourage people to buy it I am making a criminal offense. It’s called inside trading.
For the record, I haven’t bought gold to buy gear, I haven’t made a single gem->gold transaction but I know people who did and let me tell you, they are not happy about it.
How would you feel if you finally managed to get the last piece of gear you wanted, spent 100€+ on the cash shop only to find out the next day your purchase was made obsolete because “Oops, we made a mistake, sorry guys, tough luck but thank you for your money and please, come again.”
According to your statements you wouldn’t have a problem with it.
I really don’t see an issue behind it. I’ve spent all my in game cash and money from the cash shop before to get the best item I could get only to have an expansion come out a week later that had better gear. Was I a little irritated I had to save more? Yes. Was I crying about my own stupidity? No.
And I’m sorry; but if you spent £100 on equipment in a virtual game that was not necessary, then that’s your fault. Not theirs
No, you are exactly right. This also means that someone will never spend real money for stuff in the store again.
What you guys fail to understand with the “We want GW1” argument is that this game is so clearly not GW1.
There’s no GvG
There’s no Guild bases(yet)
There’s no guild capes
There’s no ability to obtain new skills outside of what they give you from the start.
There’s no dual classingThere is dodging
There is a combo system
There is jumping
There are dynamic events
There is multi-guilding.This is not a carbon copy of guild wars 1.
Why do retract back to the same questions you asked 12h ago.
We don’t insist on having a carbon copy of GW1, we insist of having the game promised during the development period, but more so, during the marketing period.
GW1 is brought up mostly in instances where people claim that no game without vertical gear progression or without rising level cap can work, because it’s a clear example of a very successful MMOs which, against all the criticism it received for the lack of these, was blooming long after any content updates ceased to be added. And yours truly believes that one of the main reasons for that was lack of gear progression, but that’s another matter.
The other things you mention, some of them promised during the development period indeed, were retracted early, with full communication end explanation and were never mentioned in Manifesto or marketing campaign.
“Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games.”
-Mike Obrien
“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills” -Colin Johanson
-Mike Obrien
“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills” -Colin Johanson
Every time any conversation about ANet clarity back in GW1 days ends with bringing up the Polar Bear.
Soooo… the worst example they can come up with from GW1 days is about a cosmetic mini-pet. And this is supposed to undermine the argument that Anet has always been trustworthy until now?
I totally get that. Really, I do.
“I care nothing for a festering industry that wantonly refuses to
provide a service that I’m willing to purchase.” – Fortuna.7259
provide a service that I’m willing to purchase.” – Fortuna.7259
I really don’t see an issue behind it. I’ve spent all my in game cash and money from the cash shop before to get the best item I could get only to have an expansion come out a week later that had better gear. Was I a little irritated I had to save more? Yes. Was I crying about my own stupidity? No.
And I’m sorry; but if you spent £100 on equipment in a virtual game that was not necessary, then that’s your fault. Not theirs
I will stop feeding the troll after this one, I promise.
Seriously, how old are you? That’s a legitimate question, I would really like to know.
Expansions are announced well ahead of time with all the features and changes made to the game. This is not an expansion, this is just a content patch. And the fact we will get a new tier was announced vaguely 3 days before the patch.
But that’s OK with you. Well played sir, well played.
I’ll state it like this. In my personal opinion adding a single tier of equipment on top of the system that is currently in place to accommodate players and work in the functions of the new dungeons is not a breach in contract; as they never said exotic was the be all end all.
Now if after Ascended they add another tier after explicitly saying this will not be a gear treadmill; then I will feel as if I have been lied to and probably leave the game.
So to re-iterate. 1 new tier on top of exotic with fixed stats that may or may not be better in all situation than exotic. I’m okay with. Going any farther than that. Not okay.
A single step ahead = Not bad
Stairmaster = horrible
The only thing that would turn this around for me is if they add a crafting system that would let people upgrade standard exotics into ascended with a small amount of effort.
Truth of the matter is, this is a mass market game, with a large audience with different wants and needs. Not everyone wants the exact same thing from it.
Granted, telling people to “go play WoW” sure saves time typing compared to “go play a vertical progression based game”. That’s why you’ll hear it a lot.
On to the part of your post I quoted. What about everyone who wanted exactly what was touted in every single developer blog, interview, and press release? We bought this game expecting exactly all that and this new change, while it does serve one type of customer, definitely does nothing but spit in the face of every other type of customer that bought into the company’s heavily marketed vision for this game.
I really don’t see an issue behind it. I’ve spent all my in game cash and money from the cash shop before to get the best item I could get only to have an expansion come out a week later that had better gear. Was I a little irritated I had to save more? Yes. Was I crying about my own stupidity? No.
And I’m sorry; but if you spent £100 on equipment in a virtual game that was not necessary, then that’s your fault. Not theirs
I will stop feeding the troll after this one, I promise.
Seriously, how old are you? That’s a legitimate question, I would really like to know.
Expansions are announced well ahead of time with all the features and changes made to the game. This is not an expansion, this is just a content patch. And the fact we will get a new tier was announced vaguely 3 days before the patch.
But that’s OK with you. Well played sir, well played.
This is basically a micro-expansion; opening up 1 new zone. I understand your point that it should be announced for an expansion ahead of time; but you also have to pay for actual expansions. This is a free small content update.
And to answer your question about my age(even though irrelevant); I am 27 years old.
Every time any conversation about ANet clarity back in GW1 days ends with bringing up the Polar Bear.
Soooo… the worst example they can come up with from GW1 days is about a cosmetic mini-pet. And this is supposed to undermine the argument that Anet has always been trustworthy until now?
I totally get that. Really, I do.
I also fail to grasp that.
Edit: to do the complainers justice, it ended up being an extremely pricey mini-pet.
Even the other PR mess-up I’ve mentioned was more of ANets self-confidence than last of clarity, since they were so convinced their system can’t allow for duping, they didn’t believe it despite markets crashing, until they were actually informed how the exploit works.
At least they didn’t try to cover it up afterwards.
“Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games.”
-Mike Obrien
“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills” -Colin Johanson
-Mike Obrien
“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills” -Colin Johanson
(edited by cherrie.8907)
Every time any conversation about ANet clarity back in GW1 days ends with bringing up the Polar Bear.
Soooo… the worst example they can come up with from GW1 days is about a cosmetic mini-pet. And this is supposed to undermine the argument that Anet has always been trustworthy until now?
I totally get that. Really, I do.
I also fail to grasp that.
Even the other PR mess-up I’ve mentioned was more of ANets self-confidence than last of clarity, since they were so convinced their system can’t allow for duping, they didn’t believe it despite markets crashing, until they were actually informed how the exploit works.
At least they didn’t try to cover it up afterwards.
But as a human being, I can see how that might happen to an otherwise honest and trustworthy group of people.
This however is a voluntary decision to go against all stated design philosophy without so much as a warning issued UNTIL there was already 30 pages of public outcry. Outcry which occurred, I would like to add, only because some developer let some information get leaked to a 3rd party German interviewer.
Sky – [tSA] – Stormbluff Isle
November 15, 2012 – The day a dream died.
November 15, 2012 – The day a dream died.
I really don’t see an issue behind it. I’ve spent all my in game cash and money from the cash shop before to get the best item I could get only to have an expansion come out a week later that had better gear. Was I a little irritated I had to save more? Yes. Was I crying about my own stupidity? No.
And I’m sorry; but if you spent £100 on equipment in a virtual game that was not necessary, then that’s your fault. Not theirs
I will stop feeding the troll after this one, I promise.
Seriously, how old are you? That’s a legitimate question, I would really like to know.
Expansions are announced well ahead of time with all the features and changes made to the game. This is not an expansion, this is just a content patch. And the fact we will get a new tier was announced vaguely 3 days before the patch.
But that’s OK with you. Well played sir, well played.
This is basically a micro-expansion; opening up 1 new zone. I understand your point that it should be announced for an expansion ahead of time; but you also have to pay for actual expansions. This is a free small content update.
And to answer your question about my age(even though irrelevant); I am 27 years old.
Please, can you try to show respect towards people joining a discussion with you by putting minimal effort into reading their posts to try and grasp what their arguments are?
Expansions are announced well ahead of time with all the features and changes made to the game. The fact we will get a new tier was announced vaguely 3 days before the patch.
No one is discussing semantics between patch/content/expansion here.
It’s the lack of communication from ANet’s side that has, yet again, hurt the community.
“Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games.”
-Mike Obrien
“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills” -Colin Johanson
-Mike Obrien
“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills” -Colin Johanson
5. Q: Ascended items fill the time gap, but why does that mean they have to have better stats?
A: They know there are different ways to fill the time gap, and were expecting different opinions on whether stat rises were the right choice—so they aren’t surprised by all the anger right now. As a side note, they are counting on the slow release of Ascended gear to contribute to the feeling of it being a longer-term goal than exotics.
Talk about walking around the question, still didn’t answer why the stats had to be raised, just that they weren’t surprised by the anger. Slow release of ascended to contribute to the feeling of long term? it’s time released people don’t have a choice but to feel it’s long term lol, not like the legendary.
Same answer WoW just came up with with mist of pandaria, gate all the raids and equipment on time release so people play at the games pace and not their own pace. Congrats on learning from the best on how to extend your content I guess, why are they following wow and not sticking their their own design concepts.
Another derailing post. ^^
North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed.
“Game over man, Game Over!” – RIP Bill
North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed.
“Game over man, Game Over!” – RIP Bill
180 pages with uninformed ppl asking why we dont want this game to turn into WoW or DDO and ppl disagreeing, needlless to say the latter is the overwhelming crowd, hopefully they will clear this shamefull mess and never again talk about implementing gear grinding in this specific game nor its expansion packs to come.
I really don’t see an issue behind it. I’ve spent all my in game cash and money from the cash shop before to get the best item I could get only to have an expansion come out a week later that had better gear. Was I a little irritated I had to save more? Yes. Was I crying about my own stupidity? No.
And I’m sorry; but if you spent £100 on equipment in a virtual game that was not necessary, then that’s your fault. Not theirs
I will stop feeding the troll after this one, I promise.
Seriously, how old are you? That’s a legitimate question, I would really like to know.
Expansions are announced well ahead of time with all the features and changes made to the game. This is not an expansion, this is just a content patch. And the fact we will get a new tier was announced vaguely 3 days before the patch.
But that’s OK with you. Well played sir, well played.
This is basically a micro-expansion; opening up 1 new zone. I understand your point that it should be announced for an expansion ahead of time; but you also have to pay for actual expansions. This is a free small content update.
And to answer your question about my age(even though irrelevant); I am 27 years old.
Please, can you try to show respect towards people joining a discussion with you by putting minimal effort into reading their posts to try and grasp what their arguments are?
Expansions are announced well ahead of time with all the features and changes made to the game. The fact we will get a new tier was announced vaguely 3 days before the patch.
No one is discussing semantics between patch/content/expansion here.
It’s the lack of communication from ANet’s side that has, yet again, hurt the community.
How exactly am I being disrespectful here? I am being civil and not insulting anyone. I am expressing my viewpoint and am not personally attacking anyone. In fact I have been personally attacked repeatedly throughout the life of this thread.
180 pages with uninformed ppl asking why we dont want this game to turn into WoW or DDO and ppl disagreeing, needlless to say the latter is the overwhelming crowd, hopefully they will clear this shamefull mess and never again talk about implementing gear grinding in this specific game nor its expansion packs to come.
This game has nothing in common with WoW or DDO; all that’s happening is a new tier of equipment.
Your rationalization that a new tier = turning into WoW is just making assumptions.
180 pages with uninformed ppl asking why we dont want this game to turn into WoW or DDO and ppl disagreeing, needlless to say the latter is the overwhelming crowd, hopefully they will clear this shamefull mess and never again talk about implementing gear grinding in this specific game nor its expansion packs to come.
This^
Can we just have someone from A-NET “clarify” why we are seeing stat increases? The most recent official post was very vague & tip toed around the issue which left more questions than answers.
180 pages with uninformed ppl asking why we dont want this game to turn into WoW or DDO and ppl disagreeing, needlless to say the latter is the overwhelming crowd, hopefully they will clear this shamefull mess and never again talk about implementing gear grinding in this specific game nor its expansion packs to come.
This^
Can we just have someone from A-NET “clarify” why we are seeing stat increases? The most recent official post was very vague & tip toed around the issue which left more questions than answers.
This is 1 thing we can all agree on. Clarification is a must.
180 pages with uninformed ppl asking why we dont want this game to turn into WoW or DDO and ppl disagreeing, needlless to say the latter is the overwhelming crowd, hopefully they will clear this shamefull mess and never again talk about implementing gear grinding in this specific game nor its expansion packs to come.
This game has nothing in common with WoW or DDO; all that’s happening is a new tier of equipment.
Your rationalization that a new tier = turning into WoW is just making assumptions.
I am not going to teach you how other mmorpgs work, common sense will do that for you, have a nice day.
This is close to the same result you would get if as a Blizzard developer you annouced in WOW
“Next week we will be making changes to the dungeons, from now on all max level items have the exact same stats and all dungeons offer the same level of rewards now”
its a case of thats NOT the game you bought… the wow players would be furious at a sudden change. Anet did a sudden and drastic change to how they are treating the game.
THAT is the issue here. Its a case of fundamental design decisions we were told, that are suddenly going out the window.
Please get your priorities straight Anet.
Stat increase = gear grind.
Gear grind = no money from me ever again.
Stat increase = gear grind.
Gear grind = no money from me ever again.
180 pages with uninformed ppl asking why we dont want this game to turn into WoW or DDO and ppl disagreeing, needlless to say the latter is the overwhelming crowd, hopefully they will clear this shamefull mess and never again talk about implementing gear grinding in this specific game nor its expansion packs to come.
This game has nothing in common with WoW or DDO; all that’s happening is a new tier of equipment.
Your rationalization that a new tier = turning into WoW is just making assumptions.
I’m not going to repost the half a dozen quotes that specifically state, tiered gear progression would never be added to GW2 & here we are. GW1 never did in 7 years, why has this changed? Why are we reverting back to a flawed design concept that has plagued the MMO industry for a decade?
I dont understand, many mmo create gear treadmill for hardcore players ( like WoW who lost more than 3millions players with a extension, or StarWars and many others )
But, a large majority dont like that and quit the game, result ? they just loose a lot of customer, so loose money, and as many game who only give gear treadmill as only occupation finish pretty fast in the garbage.
So, i guess Anet dev are not so idiot to ignore that, but, why the hell are they doing that instead of creating somes more interesting gameplay content !?
Did they really think its gonna be different because its “GW2” and not another mmo ? are they really so full of themself to think that doing the same thing who make other mmo fail will work because its GW2 ?
Or their goal is to keep a little hardcore players database and ignore all others, and fill them with gear treadmill because its the easyest thing to do ?
Lets wait the days they are going to merge de differents servers. ahah.
Enjoy your geartreadmill Anet.
The very nice skill of yours artists and level designer will really not save your game btw.
“we leave the grind to other MMOs.”
Mike Obrien
Legen – Wait for It – dary joke
Mike Obrien
Legen – Wait for It – dary joke
(edited by E Tan.7385)
I really don’t see an issue behind it. I’ve spent all my in game cash and money from the cash shop before to get the best item I could get only to have an expansion come out a week later that had better gear. Was I a little irritated I had to save more? Yes. Was I crying about my own stupidity? No.
And I’m sorry; but if you spent £100 on equipment in a virtual game that was not necessary, then that’s your fault. Not theirs
I will stop feeding the troll after this one, I promise.
Seriously, how old are you? That’s a legitimate question, I would really like to know.
Expansions are announced well ahead of time with all the features and changes made to the game. This is not an expansion, this is just a content patch. And the fact we will get a new tier was announced vaguely 3 days before the patch.
But that’s OK with you. Well played sir, well played.
This is basically a micro-expansion; opening up 1 new zone. I understand your point that it should be announced for an expansion ahead of time; but you also have to pay for actual expansions. This is a free small content update.
And to answer your question about my age(even though irrelevant); I am 27 years old.
Please, can you try to show respect towards people joining a discussion with you by putting minimal effort into reading their posts to try and grasp what their arguments are?
Expansions are announced well ahead of time with all the features and changes made to the game. The fact we will get a new tier was announced vaguely 3 days before the patch.
No one is discussing semantics between patch/content/expansion here.
It’s the lack of communication from ANet’s side that has, yet again, hurt the community.How exactly am I being disrespectful here? I am being civil and not insulting anyone. I am expressing my viewpoint and am not personally attacking anyone. In fact I have been personally attacked repeatedly throughout the life of this thread.
I’m assuming you’re not reading what other people have to say with diligent attention, because you seem to be picking on the side-points instead on the main points.
When an expansion is released, it’s usually more content and you pay for it yes but can you please see that the argument is not about expansion / free content update?
The argument being presented to you is that a change of that magnitude and with such far-reaching consequences should be communicated in advance.
Coincidently, the best example of any changes of that magnitude are ones that usually come with expansions, because that’s where biggest changes usually come, however expansions are always announced ahead of time together with the changes they bring.
TL;DR: change of this magnitude should have been announced well in advance. Whether it comes in a free content patch or paid for expansion is irrelevant for the requirement of communication.
“Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games.”
-Mike Obrien
“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills” -Colin Johanson
-Mike Obrien
“We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills” -Colin Johanson
How exactly am I being disrespectful here? I am being civil and not insulting anyone. I am expressing my viewpoint and am not personally attacking anyone. In fact I have been personally attacked repeatedly throughout the life of this thread.
Because you are constantly arguing with people about semantics.
Look, this is not a subscription based game, I’m not a subscriber. I’m a customer. It’s my decision to spend money in the gem store and support the developer. If something like this would happen in a subscription based MMO, subscriptions would tank and the game would go F2P or die.
So, if I chose to spend my money and support someone I expect to be treated like a customer or I won’t be a customer anymore. If I go to the store and the clerk sells me, let’s say a laptop, and he knows a new model will come out a week from now and doesn’t tell me I will never ever buy anything in that store again because I would feel I was taken advantage of.
Business treat customers with respect because they know they can take their money elsewhere.
I’m not sure if you understand that the existence of this game is directly liked to the gem store generating enough revenue to sustain it. Do you see where this is going now?
People got burned with this debacle. It’s not bad just for ArenaNet, it’s bad for the entire F2P genre.
I hear so many people complain that Orr is boring, you point out to them that even in a level 2 zone you can earn money and karma probably on the same level as Orr if you factor in time / risk to the rewards but they’d never contemplate leaving Orr cause they’re convinced its way more profitable.
Lower level zones, AFAIK, do not drop the rarity of loot that drops in Orr.
Sure, you can go to Queensdale and farm for Karma and coin super fast … but you’re only getting white, blues and greens (and many of them will be zone-leveled … so you’re level 80 getting level 5 blues).
Scaling for loot is funky.
Not all of it is level appropriate but you certainly get level 80 loot drops.
Though keep in mind my whole point was to avoid farming altogether. Instead of farming just play the game, people doing what they enjoy rather then what earns them most money! No doubt you’ll make less money, simply because like you said not all drops will be level 80 but is that so bad? lets say it takes you twice the time to make the same amount of money (dont really think its really that bad but anyhow) whats the problem if you’re having fun? That’s the beauty of having gear thats not required to enjoy the game! yet while many people seems to want to ensure really hard that remains true very few seem willing to take advantage of it! honestly I dont understand this whole thing!
I’m not arguing that this change should have been announced though. All I said was to consider this a micro-expansion because that’s basically what it is.
I too would have liked to have heard about this before 3 days ago. That’s not being disputed by me.
Truth of the matter is, this is a mass market game, with a large audience with different wants and needs. Not everyone wants the exact same thing from it.
I couldn’t agree with you more. That’s the crux of the issue, a good chunk of us don’t want to be forced to do dungeons.
—Arakny, 80 Engineer
—Tarnished Coast
—Tarnished Coast
I suppose it’s your choice to leave the game because you feel betrayed. But why is gear so important to people that don’t want gear to be important? Or at least the stats.
There’s people rushing to level 80 rushing through most of the content, rushing to the maximum gear, and then say there’s nothing to get, or people say, after that is the only moment they have fun.
Why are you unable to have fun without the maximum stats? Is the content Guild Wars 2 offers that bad?
“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik
How exactly am I being disrespectful here? I am being civil and not insulting anyone. I am expressing my viewpoint and am not personally attacking anyone. In fact I have been personally attacked repeatedly throughout the life of this thread.
Because you are constantly arguing with people about semantics.
Look, this is not a subscription based game, I’m not a subscriber. I’m a customer. It’s my decision to spend money in the gem store and support the developer. If something like this would happen in a subscription based MMO, subscriptions would tank and the game would go F2P or die.
So, if I chose to spend my money and support someone I expect to be treated like a customer or I won’t be a customer anymore. If I go to the store and the clerk sells me, let’s say a laptop, and he knows a new model will come out a week from now and doesn’t tell me I will never ever buy anything in that store again because I would feel I was taken advantage of.
Business treat customers with respect because they know they can take their money elsewhere.
I’m not sure if you understand that the existence of this game is directly liked to the gem store generating enough revenue to sustain it. Do you see where this is going now?
People got burned with this debacle. It’s not bad just for ArenaNet, it’s bad for the entire F2P genre.
The cash shop is not the only revenue sustaining this game. They raked in more than enough from sold out sales of the game alone to keep it going for quite some time.
What you choose to spend on the cash shop is up to you. What you buy from the cash shop is also up to you. There is NOTHING game changing about anything on the cash shop. And I’ve gotten plenty of those level 80 fusion stones simply by opening boxes with the keys I got from doing quests.
Hearing it 3 days ago would have given us more room to disagree and would have given them less room to say that “oh sorry we already implemented it”.
That was obviously not the goal.
I’ve read the responses made on the German forum and I must say, I am still disappointed.
They knew the changes will cause anger and they expected it, but still they decided to make the announcement about the new gear basically as late as possible, thus denying the players any possibility of planning their actions / purchases accordingly. Thanks so much.
They are hoping that “releasing the new gear slowly will mitigate the feeling of a treadmill”. Yes, because they very well know it is a …. treadmill and instead of option for something else, they decided to just try to powder it up as much as possible. How sweet.
I am still asking myself why the whole Infusion Progression business wasn’t bolted down to a new gear slot altogether, leaving almost everyone happy.
Even infusion in itself is a horrendous thing. Every other game that had it had to remove it due to how much players absolutely despised it. Not to mention its negative aspects on gameplay.
I know.
However, Infusion in itself is kind-of separate system easy to remove (like LotRO removed Radiance) and who knows, maybe, just maybe, ANet would manage to pull it off. If not, they could remove it.
But gear upgrade is a one-time thing.Yeah thats why I have repeatedly said if that aspect goes live im done with this game and ip. I could probably live with infusion, even though I have personally experienced similar and know how much of a horrible thing it is. It would only be tolerable because of the fact that it could easily be removed, unlike a new tier of gear.
What I am missing is the clarity we had back in GW1 days.
Certainty there will be no level cap increase, that our gear will never go obsolete stat-wise.I’ve been staying out of this mess, but I just couldn’t let THAT statement go by!
Gaile Gray and the mini polar bear incident DO come to mind to contradict that statement!
For those of you that don’t know: During a Wintersday event, a miniature polar bear (Ursula, I know) was added into the Wintersday chest. You could only get it from that chest which was only available during Wintersday. Someone asked Gaile Gray, GW1’s main PR rep) if it WAS added. She INSISTED that it was not and to not waste your time. Only a few days prior to Wintersday closing, she backtracked and said it WAS added. (You’d have to go back and look at the old stuff to see how poorly it was handled.) Many people were up-in-arms about the whole thing. I learned then and THERE not to trust a word from ANYONE regarding this game (Well, there was also the “favor” incident, which CONFIRMED for me not to trust them, but that’s a whole other Oprah!)
Every time any conversation about ANet clarity back in GW1 days ends with bringing up the Polar Bear.
Probably because it was one of the very few mess ups by Anet back then, though I would probably focus on the insistence there was no exploid / duping mechanism while there was, but let’s clear one thing about Polar Bear:
Yes, Gaile insisted there was no Polar bear, because she was convinced – and actually told after she asked the Team about it, if I’m not mistaken – there was no Polar Bear. So she did her job as best as she could.
This was not a whole facade by ANet to hide existence of Polar Bear. It was a bad instance of PR not being kept up to date.So please don’t bring that up.
OK, to clarify: It was after this incident of poor communication that I no longer trusted anything they said. I didn’t say they were eveil and should rot in the Underworld! (And BTW, you are REALLY whitewashing the whole mess there!) Glad to see you still enjoy the taste of their Koolaid, but, because of the handling of that fiasco, I learned you can’t trust what you’re told. Honest mistake or not, it was handled poorly, as was the “favor” clock crap, which was handled even MORE poorly.
You don’t like it being brought up? Sorry, it happened. People don’t forget, and as this thread CLEARLY illustrates, it doesn’t forgive easily either!
Why are you unable to have fun without the maximum stats? Is the content Guild Wars 2 offers that bad?
I pose the same question to those demanding vertical progression.
I, personally, have taken the addition of Ascended gear to be a way of getting legendary stat items in an infinitely easier way than a legendary. Despite what a lot of people seem to believe, Legendaries ARE a step up stat-wise from exotic; yes it is small, and smaller than the step from Exotic -> Ascended but it’s there. (ie: the damage range of The Juggernaut is 1000-1128, where as all exotic hammers are 984-1100)
People were complaining about this, especially given the grind you need to go through and that this is out of reach for your “average” player. Many complaints were also focused on how there is only one legendary of each type (except greatsword) with only one stat layout. In many cases the stats didn’t fit into builds and people were re-skinning their hard worked for legendary over and exotic anyhow and sacrificing the, albeit small, stat advantage for more relevant stats to their build. I haven’t seen to much QQ about this recently but, a month ago I saw complaints about this all the time.
It sounds to me that Ascended armor will be much easier to get: through the dungeon, crafting, WvW, Mystic Forge. So that fixes the “unobtainable legendaries having better stats” problem.
And this is where I agree with your post, it gives Anet the ability to release Legendary stated items with more varying stat loadouts, something the current legendary system lacks.
In all honesty the Ascended gear seems to fix more problems than it creates, and I think people will realize that given time.
they were before in the beta, now they really are the same, i know someone who has a legendairy, he can confirm
If you are looking for a cozy mature Dutch guild (EU) let me know.
Truth of the matter is, this is a mass market game, with a large audience with different wants and needs. Not everyone wants the exact same thing from it.
I couldn’t agree with you more. That’s the crux of the issue, a good chunk of us don’t want to be forced to do dungeons.
Which is why I felt relieved when I read that you would eventually be able to get Ascended gear in WvW.
Magaera Enflanza (F Human D/D Ele)
[Envy], [Moon]
[Envy], [Moon]
Truth of the matter is, this is a mass market game, with a large audience with different wants and needs. Not everyone wants the exact same thing from it.
I couldn’t agree with you more. That’s the crux of the issue, a good chunk of us don’t want to be forced to do dungeons.
Which is why I felt relieved when I read that you would eventually be able to get Ascended gear in WvW.
But why eventually? Why not from day 1 of the new gear?
only thieves know how to play, they chant “L2P” every time their god mode is challenged.
But why eventually? Why not from day 1 of the new gear?
I’ll put $5 on “because this change is being rammed through as fast as possible at the last minute and they had no time to do it an elegant manner.”
Aside from the infusions, you have to recognize that the stats increase from tier to tier is very small in GW2.
A naked untraited character has about 2000 attack. With full power gear, you’ll have about 3000 attack. Adding a few points each to 3 slots, you just won’t see any change. Even if eventually we get all 12 gear slots with a few more points each, it doesn’t add up to a noticable change in performance (meaning a mob that takes 10 hits to kill with full exotics will maybe take 9-10 hits after you upgrade every single piece of armor and accessory).
Have you seen a 1v1 fight btwn a full-exotic lvl80 and a lvl20 in greens in WvW? I hate to say it, but the difference is there, and rather noticeable, even if the 80 uses nothing but autoattack…
Try it sometime, if you don’t believe me. Gear matters a lot already, this will further discourage newcomers.
That’s a 60 level difference as well as two tiers difference. Absurdly, yes, it makes a big difference. But we’re not talking about different levels and gear. Just tiers of lvl 80 gear.
Have you tried fighting a mob with your magic find set, and then fight the same mob with your regular set? Really really hard to tell the difference (to the point I dyed my mf to look distinct from my regular).
How about look at the formulas? Or if afraid of math – Try it out on a heavy golem. You’ll go o.O “mulch.2586 was right”
