Why GW2 just isn't working
I have to agree. My GW2 character does nothing special. There is nothing she does that a million other characters don’t do.
I could say the same thing about my GW1 character. Or my D&D characters, or my MTG deck . . .
if your mtg deck isnt unique, thats by choice, they have so many possibilities, its probably way greater than 10 billion
Oh it’s unique in its own way but a Blue/Black mill deck is usually . . . going to involve blue and black cards, and the goal of making you drop cards from your library out of play until you lose.
That’s like saying every ranger is the same, because they have two pets and a limited amount of weapons and skills available. There is the same narrow band of options, while still retaining a chance to have some individuality. But everyone still knows “Ranger” or “Blue/Black Mill” means a particular thing, even if they don’t know what exactly it is.
Also, I think the individuality of a character or a deck or whatever isn’t in the construction (writing, design, whatever) . . . it’s in the actor/player behind the face.
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
But GW2 is working, so your premise is inherently flawed.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
But GW2 is working, so your premise is inherently flawed.
Is it, though? Is it really?
Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.
But GW2 is working, so your premise is inherently flawed.
Is it, though? Is it really?
From where I am sitting, yes it is.
but the people werent asking for a system that made old skills require new expensive costs, they were talking about additional skills they add, like the heal which costed 25 skill points.
They were like getting new skills for some obscene amount of points is lame, how about you create an alternate means for those that want to explore.no one told them to do it retroactively for traits, no one said to dramatically increase the costs of obtaining traits or skills.
So saying this is what people asked for is inaccurate. It would have been substantially different, in fact it probably would have been highly loved, if they added 5 skills to each class, and you had an option of paying 25-30 skillpoints (what they were already selecting for new skills at the time) or doing something in the game world, preferably something that made sense with that skill being there.
they missed the intent, overshot the scope of the change, and poorly executed it. I dont think you can blame posters for that.
Even if people were asking exactly for what you’re saying its easy to conclude it would never have been implement just like that. For starters I am sure the last thing Anet want is to have 100 skills you get one way and 20 skills you get some other way. Whatever they changed had to be unified and based on what they did with the traits (tasks to do for an unlock. which it had to be kill a champion would just be too trivial which would make it meaningless) just wouldnt work with skills. If it takes you a week to unlock a trait (zone completion, temple runs etc..) its no big deal, traits provide a boost but you’re perfectly functional without them. Utility skills its another thing thing though 1 week without a skill you need is too limiting.
So no I wouldnt say “they missed the intent, overshot the scope of the change, and poorly executed it. I dont think you can blame posters for that.” They simply saw what game play people wanted (unlock skills) designed how to best do it in a way thats meaningful (killing a champion would be too trivial. having players kill a champion 50 times for a skill drop would be too grindy / boring) and then decided it made more sense if they applied it to traits then skills which well I completely agree. while I dont like the new leveling changes I love what they did with the traits. If they did the same with skills though I would hate it those arent as optional as traits to me and thus would be a problem if took a long time to be able to access the once you need.
ok
1) this was proposed as an endgame horizontal progression, it doesnt have to follow the same rules as early game things. Its pretty common to create a different extra system for many types of progression in MMOs.
Also, they already were adding skills for 25 skill points, this was a DIFFERENT option.
2) the tasks they chose for traits are sometimes as trivial as kill a champion, but i never suggested that would be the ideal methodology.
3)No newly created skill is needed(because you already have a plethora to choose from), but even if it was, how long do you think it takes the average player to amass 25 skill points from 0? probably a week or longer, why is it fine that it takes a week of work through skill points ALREADY for new high end skills?
Also though you percieve traits as lesser, that entirely depends on the trait. On my mesmer illusionary persona gets more use than any of my utility skills by far. Mantra trait, when gives me more mantra uses than adding the last mantra. (8 casts versus 9 casts) This is subjective, i would say that traits define your build more than utilities. My traits are actually what tend to make or break a build.
clone on dodge?
damage + hp on steal?
ini gain on steal?
critical hits cause vuln?
criticak hits steal hp?
yeah, traits can be a pretty big deal.
they actually said why they chose traits, because it costs less time to make a trait.
I see you said you love the trait revamp, even if i thought you were right and traits were the way to go, the execution of it, is imo completely messed up, on multiple levels. Map completion is a chore, EOTM/WVW unlocks dont jive well with pve players, and they selected things in WvW that are generally considered wastes of resources. The range for accessibility on the low end skills are too high. Skills are linked randomly to events regardless on how useful/type of skill it is. The UI for trait hunting, and descriptions are confusing and poor, And after the first time doing the same exact thing for every class will generally be dull and uninspired. Not to mention, many people now hit 80 and have virtually no skills, or the resources to obtain them.
not good imo
I have to agree. My GW2 character does nothing special. There is nothing she does that a million other characters don’t do.
I could say the same thing about my GW1 character. Or my D&D characters, or my MTG deck . . .
if your mtg deck isnt unique, thats by choice, they have so many possibilities, its probably way greater than 10 billion
Oh it’s unique in its own way but a Blue/Black mill deck is usually . . . going to involve blue and black cards, and the goal of making you drop cards from your library out of play until you lose.
That’s like saying every ranger is the same, because they have two pets and a limited amount of weapons and skills available. There is the same narrow band of options, while still retaining a chance to have some individuality. But everyone still knows “Ranger” or “Blue/Black Mill” means a particular thing, even if they don’t know what exactly it is.
Also, I think the individuality of a character or a deck or whatever isn’t in the construction (writing, design, whatever) . . . it’s in the actor/player behind the face.
well, blue black mill can be pretty different in style, counter heavy? defense heavy? get hp back? mill based on drawing? self mill? counter elixir of life? exile it? big deck, small deck? its can be vastly different in playstyle. But i digress
I picked up GW1 a few months ago to have a go and do some HoM stuff. It can be quite fun, and I’m slowly working my way along. I’ve completed all the stories on normal mode, and they’re quite interesting (except Prophecies, which is boring as kitten).
That said, as someone who played GW1 after GW2, the skill unlock system from GW1 was one of the absolute worst features of the game. As a new player, I wanted to try all sorts of new things and experience the game and experiment with builds and all that stuff everyone talks about with GW1. I also wanted to challenge myself with some of the harder content. However, all this was gated behind a massive grind. Not only did I have to accumulate what was, to a new player, vast amounts of currency and skill points (ie. xp grind) to buy skills and Signets of Capture, but I had to go out in the world and tediously find and kill bosses (relying on a guide, of course. This couldn’t be done just through exploration) again and again to find the skills I needed, let alone a variety of skills to choose from. I couldn’t even take my full normal skill-bar to do so, since I had to put Signets of Capture on it. Nor could I unlock skills for any more than one extra profession (beyond my core profession) at a time, meaning that getting skills and elites for all my heroes took even more time, and even more repetition of the exact same content (and even more platinum).
PvP was, of course, absolutely out of the question. There was no possible way I could have competed meaningfully, so I had to ignore it.
So, OP, while you were able to potter around in GW1 for old times sake… the only reason you could do so was because you had invested so much time in the game in the first place. You got past the very, very long initial grind to be able to experience all the vaunted depth of playstyle, and to be able to succeed in any part of the world. For me, I found that GW2 is considerably less gated, restricted and grindy.
I picked up GW1 a few months ago to have a go and do some HoM stuff. It can be quite fun, and I’m slowly working my way along. I’ve completed all the stories on normal mode, and they’re quite interesting (except Prophecies, which is boring as kitten).
That said, as someone who played GW1 after GW2, the skill unlock system from GW1 was one of the absolute worst features of the game. As a new player, I wanted to try all sorts of new things and experience the game and experiment with builds and all that stuff everyone talks about with GW1. I also wanted to challenge myself with some of the harder content. However, all this was gated behind a massive grind. Not only did I have to accumulate what was, to a new player, vast amounts of currency and skill points (ie. xp grind) to buy skills and Signets of Capture, but I had to go out in the world and tediously find and kill bosses (relying on a guide, of course. This couldn’t be done just through exploration) again and again to find the skills I needed, let alone a variety of skills to choose from. I couldn’t even take my full normal skill-bar to do so, since I had to put Signets of Capture on it. Nor could I unlock skills for any more than one extra profession (beyond my core profession) at a time, meaning that getting skills and elites for all my heroes took even more time, and even more repetition of the exact same content (and even more platinum).
PvP was, of course, absolutely out of the question. There was no possible way I could have competed meaningfully, so I had to ignore it.
So, OP, while you were able to potter around in GW1 for old times sake… the only reason you could do so was because you had invested so much time in the game in the first place. You got past the very, very long initial grind to be able to experience all the vaunted depth of playstyle, and to be able to succeed in any part of the world. For me, I found that GW2 is considerably less gated, restricted and grindy.
the only skills that needed to be captured were elites.
for each class there were 15-35 elites, and you didnt really need them all. In fact, i think only my assassin had all their elites.
getting every elite skill was considered a fairly long term goal, similar to say getting all classes to 80 in this game. ( you are basically playing every class if you need every elite)
you essentially got the elites you wanted to get, not so much every elite. The same with skills, except skills required virtually no work at all.
Generally, getting elites wasnt that bad, you get some hench/heroes, and you make a running build to run through zone. Probably the biggest deal was the platinum, but if you do it on multi charachters, and unlock it with elite scrolls, you can save a lil money.
snip
Of course its not good, it wasnt good in GW1 and its not good in GW2.
But hey, at least “community” (those few people that called themselves community at the time and whined about it the loudest) is happy, amiright?
If you want to delude yourself that trait system change has nothing to do with GW1 skill capture whines, well, good luck with that because its direct reaction to “feedback from community”
They did skill/trait/gear system at launch to serve specific purpose (as you can read in my sig)
Now 2 of those are untrue, and direct result of “community whines” aka “who was loudest on the forums at certain times”
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
(edited by MikaHR.1978)
ok
1) this was proposed as an endgame horizontal progression, it doesnt have to follow the same rules as early game things. Its pretty common to create a different extra system for many types of progression in MMOs.
Also, they already were adding skills for 25 skill points, this was a DIFFERENT option.
Well the proposal then ignored the fact there is no endgame on purpose. I mean its not that players shouldnt propose things, obviously they have every right and should as much as possible as at the end of the day it can only help to make the game better but that being said its important to consider the culture of the game. Anet takes what it can from the proposal but will naturally ignore stuff that goes against their core design such as having an endgame.
It had a different cost not a different option which is well different.
2) the tasks they chose for traits are sometimes as trivial as kill a champion, but i never suggested that would be the ideal methodology.
fair enough. though would you see something like zone completion to unlock a utility skill? or even freeing a temple or killing a temple boss?
3)No newly created skill is needed(because you already have a plethora to choose from), but even if it was, how long do you think it takes the average player to amass 25 skill points from 0? probably a week or longer, why is it fine that it takes a week of work through skill points ALREADY for new high end skills?
2 things here. 1st adding a new skills isnt the same as having all skills locked up. you might not be able to buy the new heal skill outright but you already have a heal skill back up you can use. 2nd it really doesnt take a week to unlock 25 skills points. you can easily do a skill challenge every 10 mins including travel time which means it would take about 4hrs or so.
Also though you percieve traits as lesser, that entirely depends on the trait. On my mesmer illusionary persona gets more use than any of my utility skills by far. Mantra trait, when gives me more mantra uses than adding the last mantra. (8 casts versus 9 casts) This is subjective, i would say that traits define your build more than utilities. My traits are actually what tend to make or break a build.
clone on dodge?
damage + hp on steal?
ini gain on steal?
critical hits cause vuln?
criticak hits steal hp?yeah, traits can be a pretty big deal.
Well you’re right its subjective and it was a mistake to make a sweeping statement it will change from person to person. That being said most traits augment skills like you mentioned specifical mantra traits… they’re pretty useless if you have no mantra skills unlocked. besides that there is an element of enjoyment. traits make you better at what you do but skills is what allows you to do what you do. traits dont make combat more enjoyable directly (they do indirectly by making you better and giving you some extra perks) where as utilities do. There is a reason people complain there are not enough skills on the forums but I dont think I ever saw anyone really complain there arent enough traits. skills are just more in your face so to speak. Their the direct link between you and the world. Where as traits are like the gems you slot into them (okey this is a poor analogy but I hope it gets its understandable enough)
they actually said why they chose traits, because it costs less time to make a trait.
I see you said you love the trait revamp, even if i thought you were right and traits were the way to go, the execution of it, is imo completely messed up, on multiple levels. Map completion is a chore, EOTM/WVW unlocks dont jive well with pve players, and they selected things in WvW that are generally considered wastes of resources. The range for accessibility on the low end skills are too high. Skills are linked randomly to events regardless on how useful/type of skill it is. The UI for trait hunting, and descriptions are confusing and poor, And after the first time doing the same exact thing for every class will generally be dull and uninspired. Not to mention, many people now hit 80 and have virtually no skills, or the resources to obtain them.
not good imo
I never said it was perfect, to what you listed I would also add temple related ones are also bad since you have no way of knowing when an event is going to start and worst yet if you dont have enough backup to complete it (though with the megaserver this may no longer be an issue) It can be refined for sure, everything can but on the whole as an idea, I think it works. It gives direction, worthy reward and I dont feel really kitten until its reached.
But GW2 is working, so your premise is inherently flawed.
Is it, though? Is it really?
From where I am sitting, yes it is.
Agreed. There are certainly things that could be improved, as in any game, but it runs smooth.
“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”
I never said it was perfect, to what you listed I would also add temple related ones are also bad since you have no way of knowing when an event is going to start and worst yet if you dont have enough backup to complete it (though with the megaserver this may no longer be an issue) It can be refined for sure, everything can but on the whole as an idea, I think it works. It gives direction, worthy reward and I dont feel really kitten until its reached.
ok, i see a disconnect here, you are thinking if they did skills the same way they did traits, increasing costs or doing a big quest.
I was saying, if they kept the skills costs essentially the same, and for new special skills they added the other option of hunting/quest as opposed to spending 25 skill points.
As far as not adding endgame, they already said that if they added new weapons, they would make it a post level 80 thing. So they had already concieved of the idea of something being different at higher levels.
notice they gave traits rarity colors? well they could essentially do the same thing and make it so that exotic rarity traits (or ascended) had a different means of aquisition.
regardless, whether you think it a good idea or not, the fact is, the system they came up with creates a noticeablely different experience than the system people were presenting. Therefore, people saying this is what the people were asking for is extremely inaccurate. They may have been inspired by what people were asking for, but they took it in a far different direction, and different implementation, which essentially is a big departure on the intent of peoples suggestions.
and imo, the temple ones arent really that bad, compared to map completion, the biggest problem is that with megaservers, now many of these never get to a fail state, and you can no longer track whats happening in the world, but imo this was a flaw created with the megaservers, which essentially severely limit the future of dynamic events. (shame because that is, imo one of the best aspects of the game, when done well)
I picked up GW1 a few months ago to have a go and do some HoM stuff. It can be quite fun, and I’m slowly working my way along. I’ve completed all the stories on normal mode, and they’re quite interesting (except Prophecies, which is boring as kitten).
That said, as someone who played GW1 after GW2, the skill unlock system from GW1 was one of the absolute worst features of the game. As a new player, I wanted to try all sorts of new things and experience the game and experiment with builds and all that stuff everyone talks about with GW1. I also wanted to challenge myself with some of the harder content. However, all this was gated behind a massive grind. Not only did I have to accumulate what was, to a new player, vast amounts of currency and skill points (ie. xp grind) to buy skills and Signets of Capture, but I had to go out in the world and tediously find and kill bosses (relying on a guide, of course. This couldn’t be done just through exploration) again and again to find the skills I needed, let alone a variety of skills to choose from. I couldn’t even take my full normal skill-bar to do so, since I had to put Signets of Capture on it. Nor could I unlock skills for any more than one extra profession (beyond my core profession) at a time, meaning that getting skills and elites for all my heroes took even more time, and even more repetition of the exact same content (and even more platinum).
PvP was, of course, absolutely out of the question. There was no possible way I could have competed meaningfully, so I had to ignore it.
So, OP, while you were able to potter around in GW1 for old times sake… the only reason you could do so was because you had invested so much time in the game in the first place. You got past the very, very long initial grind to be able to experience all the vaunted depth of playstyle, and to be able to succeed in any part of the world. For me, I found that GW2 is considerably less gated, restricted and grindy.
the only skills that needed to be captured were elites.
for each class there were 15-35 elites, and you didnt really need them all. In fact, i think only my assassin had all their elites.getting every elite skill was considered a fairly long term goal, similar to say getting all classes to 80 in this game. ( you are basically playing every class if you need every elite)
you essentially got the elites you wanted to get, not so much every elite. The same with skills, except skills required virtually no work at all.
Generally, getting elites wasnt that bad, you get some hench/heroes, and you make a running build to run through zone. Probably the biggest deal was the platinum, but if you do it on multi charachters, and unlock it with elite scrolls, you can save a lil money.
You only need to capture elites, but you do need the money to buy most of the normal skills too. And sure, I only unlocked the elites I was told to by the builds I was using. But everyone talks about how GW1 has all this great complexity and depth with builds (the OP referenced playing how you want)… I couldn’t access that. Except for simply following guides, that aspect of the game was utterly opaque and inaccessible to me. And hell, simply getting access to a few hero team builds seemed long and grindy.
Save a little plat on multiple characters… maybe… assuming you want to do the exact same story (no choices. same cutscenes. same dialogue.) and unlock all the same zones all over again… and gear another character (not too expensive, but still money)… and somehow get a lot of tomes….
I’m not saying GW1 is a bad game. The initial rush of leveling and completing the stories for the first time was certainly very fun. But beyond that, getting access to all the things that people who played for 6 years talk about… that’s a very long term goal for me. I don’t mind playing, but I don’t feel much motivation to do so for more than a couple of hours a fortnight.
Mostly what I’m saying is that the perspective of a new player to GW1 can be a lot different from a veteran.
I picked up GW1 a few months ago to have a go and do some HoM stuff. It can be quite fun, and I’m slowly working my way along. I’ve completed all the stories on normal mode, and they’re quite interesting (except Prophecies, which is boring as kitten).
That said, as someone who played GW1 after GW2, the skill unlock system from GW1 was one of the absolute worst features of the game. As a new player, I wanted to try all sorts of new things and experience the game and experiment with builds and all that stuff everyone talks about with GW1. I also wanted to challenge myself with some of the harder content. However, all this was gated behind a massive grind. Not only did I have to accumulate what was, to a new player, vast amounts of currency and skill points (ie. xp grind) to buy skills and Signets of Capture, but I had to go out in the world and tediously find and kill bosses (relying on a guide, of course. This couldn’t be done just through exploration) again and again to find the skills I needed, let alone a variety of skills to choose from. I couldn’t even take my full normal skill-bar to do so, since I had to put Signets of Capture on it. Nor could I unlock skills for any more than one extra profession (beyond my core profession) at a time, meaning that getting skills and elites for all my heroes took even more time, and even more repetition of the exact same content (and even more platinum).
PvP was, of course, absolutely out of the question. There was no possible way I could have competed meaningfully, so I had to ignore it.
So, OP, while you were able to potter around in GW1 for old times sake… the only reason you could do so was because you had invested so much time in the game in the first place. You got past the very, very long initial grind to be able to experience all the vaunted depth of playstyle, and to be able to succeed in any part of the world. For me, I found that GW2 is considerably less gated, restricted and grindy.
the only skills that needed to be captured were elites.
for each class there were 15-35 elites, and you didnt really need them all. In fact, i think only my assassin had all their elites.getting every elite skill was considered a fairly long term goal, similar to say getting all classes to 80 in this game. ( you are basically playing every class if you need every elite)
you essentially got the elites you wanted to get, not so much every elite. The same with skills, except skills required virtually no work at all.
Generally, getting elites wasnt that bad, you get some hench/heroes, and you make a running build to run through zone. Probably the biggest deal was the platinum, but if you do it on multi charachters, and unlock it with elite scrolls, you can save a lil money.
You only need to capture elites, but you do need the money to buy most of the normal skills too. And sure, I only unlocked the elites I was told to by the builds I was using. But everyone talks about how GW1 has all this great complexity and depth with builds (the OP referenced playing how you want)… I couldn’t access that. Except for simply following guides, that aspect of the game was utterly opaque and inaccessible to me. And hell, simply getting access to a few hero team builds seemed long and grindy.
Save a little plat on multiple characters… maybe… assuming you want to do the exact same story (no choices. same cutscenes. same dialogue.) and unlock all the same zones all over again… and gear another character (not too expensive, but still money)… and somehow get a lot of tomes….
I’m not saying GW1 is a bad game. The initial rush of leveling and completing the stories for the first time was certainly very fun. But beyond that, getting access to all the things that people who played for 6 years talk about… that’s a very long term goal for me. I don’t mind playing, but I don’t feel much motivation to do so for more than a couple of hours a fortnight.
Mostly what I’m saying is that the perspective of a new player to GW1 can be a lot different from a veteran.
i will agree, that elites was a bit opaque, they actually have a fair amount of elite in zones you normally go through, though they dont tell you this ahead of time. So yeah, it basically was generally something you looked up, though i used to go around with a signet of capture myself, just in case i found something i wanted.
and no, it wasnt a perfect game, but it had some strengths, that i think one could use as inspiration. My perspective of GW1 was from a newbie though, i wasnt familiar with it until i started playing it.
I also agree prophecies was boring, many people say it was the best, i totally disagree.
So I logged back into my GW1 account yesterday, just to have a potter about for old times sake.
I started playing GW1 after GW2 (bought GW1 on the steam sale a few weeks ago) und played GW1 for some hours to understand why people are saying it is so better than GW2.
Well, after a few hours I stopped playing GW1. For me the questing was so “old style classical MMO boring”, fights were rather static. GW2 was and is much more fun for me. GW1 isn’t working for me, but GW2 is.
GW2 is not a sequel to GW1. GW1 and GW2 are two total different games that share the Name “guild wars” and some of the lore. So it is then normal, that GW1 works for some people, but GW2 not (and vice versa).
Greetings.
So I logged back into my GW1 account yesterday, just to have a potter about for old times sake.
I started playing GW1 after GW2 (bought GW1 on the steam sale a few weeks ago) und played GW1 for some hours to understand why people are saying it is so better than GW2.
Well, after a few hours I stopped playing GW1. For me the questing was so “old style classical MMO boring”, fights were rather static. GW2 was and is much more fun for me. GW1 isn’t working for me, but GW2 is.
GW2 is not a sequel to GW1. GW1 and GW2 are two total different games that share the Name “guild wars” and some of the lore. So it is then normal, that GW1 works for some people, but GW2 not (and vice versa).
Greetings.
its not an action MMO like this one, if you need action combat, you can never play GW1. Questing does often feel like a big step back, I dont think questing shouldnt exist, but i think it should be for things that need quests. The dynamic event system for random things in the world, is a far superior system imo.
That said, missions totally obliterates personal story, and elite missions better than our dungeons.
personally i am glad that gw2 is different, especially when it comes to combat, freedom of movement, fully 3d world, etc.
but to be honest i dont think gw2 has lived up to its own intial release yet. GW1 each campaign, was for me an improved experience. GW2, most of the content updates have not expanded or improved on the game that shipped.
the amount of skills traits jobs, zones etc was really good for release, not so good at the 2 year mark
I picked up GW1 a few months ago to have a go and do some HoM stuff. It can be quite fun, and I’m slowly working my way along. I’ve completed all the stories on normal mode, and they’re quite interesting (except Prophecies, which is boring as kitten).
That said, as someone who played GW1 after GW2, the skill unlock system from GW1 was one of the absolute worst features of the game. As a new player, I wanted to try all sorts of new things and experience the game and experiment with builds and all that stuff everyone talks about with GW1. I also wanted to challenge myself with some of the harder content. However, all this was gated behind a massive grind. Not only did I have to accumulate what was, to a new player, vast amounts of currency and skill points (ie. xp grind) to buy skills and Signets of Capture, but I had to go out in the world and tediously find and kill bosses (relying on a guide, of course. This couldn’t be done just through exploration) again and again to find the skills I needed, let alone a variety of skills to choose from. I couldn’t even take my full normal skill-bar to do so, since I had to put Signets of Capture on it. Nor could I unlock skills for any more than one extra profession (beyond my core profession) at a time, meaning that getting skills and elites for all my heroes took even more time, and even more repetition of the exact same content (and even more platinum).
PvP was, of course, absolutely out of the question. There was no possible way I could have competed meaningfully, so I had to ignore it.
So, OP, while you were able to potter around in GW1 for old times sake… the only reason you could do so was because you had invested so much time in the game in the first place. You got past the very, very long initial grind to be able to experience all the vaunted depth of playstyle, and to be able to succeed in any part of the world. For me, I found that GW2 is considerably less gated, restricted and grindy.
1) You seem to havemissed the part about obtaining normal skills from quests.
2) The nice thing about elite capturing was you that, after capping the 2nd one, could use 2 elites at a time throughout the current map, which is both fun and convenient.
3) The unlock cost capped at 1k/skill or signet, which is really low, especially given the fact you can also obtain statistically BiS gear for a few k per piece (+ extremely common materials).
4) How do you expect a game to live up to its former glory when most of the community is gone, the ‘golden age’ of the game was the first 1-2 years for pvp, and a bit longer for pve, not to mention the game has been on auto pilot for a while now.
Fact is, many missed out, and all that’s left is the far cry that is GW2 (which can be ok for those who never played GW or just simply disliked the lack of jumping and open world content) coupled with the stories from those of us who experienced the best the original had to offer.
RIP ‘gf left me coz of ladderboard’ Total views: 71,688 Total posts: 363
(edited by KarlaGrey.5903)
So I logged back into my GW1 account yesterday, just to have a potter about for old times sake.
Did a few “solo” runs including some of the old stuff that I developed for the Ranger’s Beacon in The Jade Sea and The Deep.
Grabbed henchies and heroes and had a few bashes at dropping a froggy sceptre.
Took some folks on a guided tour of the Fissure
Went and capped a Black Widow solo – just because I could.
and then something stopped me in my tracks. I realised that I cared about my toons, felt connected to them. They had a personality and playing the game was FUN!
More than that, I could play GW1 in various styles and no part of the game world was “off limits” or restricted.
And that’s where GW2 has failed. Sure it looks pretty, but there simply isn’t the connection, my toons have no personality and the game is an un-ending grind for cosmetic skins, short term FPS “shoot and scoot” mentality and Anet wasting effort on trivial “improvements” rather than letting players PLAY in a style that suits them.
Sad that after such a short time GW2 has become a pale imitation of its predecessor.
Perhaps you felt attached, because GW1 was pretty much single-player, especially if you used Heroes and Henchmen.
ok, i see a disconnect here, you are thinking if they did skills the same way they did traits, increasing costs or doing a big quest.
I was saying, if they kept the skills costs essentially the same, and for new special skills they added the other option of hunting/quest as opposed to spending 25 skill points.
ohh you intended for the current system to remain in place where you can still buy skills using skill points. okey that might work to a degree. I would definitely go for the challenge but I Fear the majority of the people will take the easy way out and use skill points. I mean most of us have a ton of the stuff anyway and another truckload of scrolls.
As far as not adding endgame, they already said that if they added new weapons, they would make it a post level 80 thing. So they had already concieved of the idea of something being different at higher levels.
notice they gave traits rarity colors? well they could essentially do the same thing and make it so that exotic rarity traits (or ascended) had a different means of aquisition.
Did they? when was that? I dont really see them saying that, seems kinda counter productive to have a new weapon for a class that well there is just no low level version of. Not sure why they’d want to do that either!
regardless, whether you think it a good idea or not, the fact is, the system they came up with creates a noticeablely different experience than the system people were presenting. Therefore, people saying this is what the people were asking for is extremely inaccurate. They may have been inspired by what people were asking for, but they took it in a far different direction, and different implementation, which essentially is a big departure on the intent of peoples suggestions.
I disagree. Like I said not every idea can translate perfectly but that doesnt mean Anet should either give exactly what people ask for or nothing at all (for starters if they’d act that way we’d never get anything since some people want A others want exactly the opposite of A) Sometimes you’d get to core Idea and the core Idea of skill capture is to overcome a challenge in order gain a skill and translate it as best as possible to your game. Thats what I see them doing here.
and imo, the temple ones arent really that bad, compared to map completion, the biggest problem is that with megaservers, now many of these never get to a fail state, and you can no longer track whats happening in the world, but imo this was a flaw created with the megaservers, which essentially severely limit the future of dynamic events. (shame because that is, imo one of the best aspects of the game, when done well)
Well out of all the ones I did so far those where the only ones that were frustrating.
Map completion might take a lot more effort but its enjoyable as you’re always doing something. The temple? its repeating the same content in the same small area + tons of waiting until it triggers and thats boring for me.
I can actually understand why its easier to get attached to gw1 if you play it first then the other way round.
I mean at least for me when I first played… when I second played gw1 (long story… tried the trial and just let the hype of the time that gw1 was noting but a pvp game affected me more then it should so I passed on it. 2nd time I gave it a fair chance and was hooked) I just had a lot of these wow moment (not world of…) I was impressed by the freedom to have a character play the way I wanted not fixed in a stereotypical role. I was really impressed the first time an NPC gave me a quest and unlike all those other lazy npcs in other games who left or the work to me he actually came with me to do his part. I was impressed how changes I did in a zone were persistent until I reset the zone. miles ahead of the competition where nothing ever changed. I was impressed how the whole game world remains meaningful even after you reach max level. If you’re not paying attention while taking a stroll through a beginner zone with a max level character can prove fatal.. doesnt happen in other mmos. I was impressed how I didnt have to care about getting constant better gear, I could just enjoy the game. I was impressed about how I wasnt forced to repeat the same content over and over again at max level, I could do what I feel like and still get rewarded. well there are more but you get the idea. Gw1 provided unique experiences that just didn’t exist at the time. So when you saw them you were impressed, it felt special, something that stands out from the crowd and thus easier to fall in love with.
If you play Gw2 first even though people claim Gw2 has nothing in common with Gw1 you’ll get to experience all of these things there. Its not that Gw1 becomes a bad game, there are still things that Gw1 does a lot better then Gw2 but a lot of those wow moments just dont happen and thus you dont fall in love just as easily. It takes time to get enough skills so that strategic deck building becomes meaningful. It takes time to get to the really challenging areas that give you a good taste of how challenging the game can be.
So I think I can understand why players who played Gw2 before Gw1 find it harder to understand why people would value Gw1 more.
Anet should run an adopt-a-dev for gw1 program so the team can experience all the things that players loved and give them a better development direction.
Unless they roll a Paragon.
Hey now… i liked my Paragon! LOL. I just had all my alts (mercenaries) do the heavy lifting, and I kept shouting things at them. Plus with my secondary as ranger, I’d throw the bear in the mix.
But getting back to the OP. I have developed a pretty deep connection to my characters in GW2, just as I did with GW1. Mind you a lot of it is due to my own backstories for said characters, and not GW2’s ability to define my personal story.
I’m referencing how the community adapted to playing with Paragons: almost next to not at all.
(edited by Boneheart.3561)
For me, my favorite part of GW1 was vanquishing because I could revisit all of the areas I went through with a new purpose. In GW2, I feel like there is a massive world out there with absolutely no reason for me to go. I also like the GW1 dungeons because they were challenging but soloable. I don’t usually like playing with other people in organized groups too much because I can’t do that casually. For example, on GW1, I could jump right into Frostmaw’s Burrows if I wanted without the headache of trying to organize a team.
Right now I’ve been doing a lot of SoloQ because my server isn’t the greatest at WvW, and to be honest, I don’t much like WvW because of food, perplexity runes, unstandardized gear, etc. So I stick with spvp where a little more skill is needed. Now if ANET allowed everyone to pvp in WvW with the free runes and gear like the pvp system in GW1, it would be a lot different for me. Then I would be able to gear up my toons solely for pve and not have to double grind to outfit them for WvW and also for dungeons and open world pve.
All in all GW2 is a great game, but the more I play it, the more I realize it isn’t for me. I know some people didn’t like it, but my favorite part of GW2 was exploring new areas, getting vistas, completing maps, and stumbling onto jumping puzzles. But now that I’ve gone through all of the open world, what once was a huge game is now rather limited for me. I wouldn’t mind going back to some of my favorite GW2 areas if I only had a real incentive to do it.
For me, my favorite part of GW1 was vanquishing because I could revisit all of the areas I went through with a new purpose. In GW2, I feel like there is a massive world out there with absolutely no reason for me to go.
Well, ANet has been starting to work towards a goal similar to that. The achievement unlocks for the Living Story once you complete a level sounds pretty much exactly like this. You go through the storyline once to enjoy the storyline, then you have the option to go back through again and do something specific in order to get new rewards.
Baelyyrn [Zero Brigade]
Mechanist Gregory [BEER]
Arondight Unfading [ZB]
Mechanist Gregory [BEER]
Arondight Unfading [ZB]
Not working, huh? Lol, OK.
“You’ll PAY to know what you really think.” ~ J. R. “Bob” Dobbs
For me, my favorite part of GW1 was vanquishing because I could revisit all of the areas I went through with a new purpose. In GW2, I feel like there is a massive world out there with absolutely no reason for me to go. I also like the GW1 dungeons because they were challenging but soloable. I don’t usually like playing with other people in organized groups too much because I can’t do that casually. For example, on GW1, I could jump right into Frostmaw’s Burrows if I wanted without the headache of trying to organize a team.
Right now I’ve been doing a lot of SoloQ because my server isn’t the greatest at WvW, and to be honest, I don’t much like WvW because of food, perplexity runes, unstandardized gear, etc. So I stick with spvp where a little more skill is needed. Now if ANET allowed everyone to pvp in WvW with the free runes and gear like the pvp system in GW1, it would be a lot different for me. Then I would be able to gear up my toons solely for pve and not have to double grind to outfit them for WvW and also for dungeons and open world pve.
All in all GW2 is a great game, but the more I play it, the more I realize it isn’t for me. I know some people didn’t like it, but my favorite part of GW2 was exploring new areas, getting vistas, completing maps, and stumbling onto jumping puzzles. But now that I’ve gone through all of the open world, what once was a huge game is now rather limited for me. I wouldn’t mind going back to some of my favorite GW2 areas if I only had a real incentive to do it.
IMO, hard mode vanquishing in GW1 was THE SHIZNITZ.
Mud Bone – Sylvari Ranger
For me, my favorite part of GW1 was vanquishing because I could revisit all of the areas I went through with a new purpose. In GW2, I feel like there is a massive world out there with absolutely no reason for me to go. I also like the GW1 dungeons because they were challenging but soloable. I don’t usually like playing with other people in organized groups too much because I can’t do that casually. For example, on GW1, I could jump right into Frostmaw’s Burrows if I wanted without the headache of trying to organize a team.
Right now I’ve been doing a lot of SoloQ because my server isn’t the greatest at WvW, and to be honest, I don’t much like WvW because of food, perplexity runes, unstandardized gear, etc. So I stick with spvp where a little more skill is needed. Now if ANET allowed everyone to pvp in WvW with the free runes and gear like the pvp system in GW1, it would be a lot different for me. Then I would be able to gear up my toons solely for pve and not have to double grind to outfit them for WvW and also for dungeons and open world pve.
All in all GW2 is a great game, but the more I play it, the more I realize it isn’t for me. I know some people didn’t like it, but my favorite part of GW2 was exploring new areas, getting vistas, completing maps, and stumbling onto jumping puzzles. But now that I’ve gone through all of the open world, what once was a huge game is now rather limited for me. I wouldn’t mind going back to some of my favorite GW2 areas if I only had a real incentive to do it.
this touches on some of the big things i think gw2 is missing,
1)there is nothing you can do as solo or small team that is under your control. Essentially no small team play with an objective that isnt so easy you cant lose.
in gw1, it was all like that. You could do a mission, or vanquish, or attempt a dungeon. Here, the only thing similar to that is dungeons, which is a 5 man affair. There are a few dynamic event chains that give that feel, but they are few, and they may not be happening at any time.
Essentially, i cant hop on and just do some small objective, i think thats why people used to like personal story key runs to some extent.
2)there isnt much to do in the world once you have done it all. after you get to max level, basically the game is all about some sort of repetive grind for max gold if you arent pvping. Very little interesting repeatable content.
I would personally LOVE companions that would eliminate the need for 5 mans, or the ability to do skirmish style dungeons where they scale with the number of players you have or remain soloable like in Rift/LOTRO. I’d love having the ability to kill Champions and actually be rewarded for it without the fear of some draconian system like DR stepping in and taking over.
Some of the issues for me are the lack of combat balance in PVE that’s been allowed to carry on far far too long imo. People on here don’t help either, they either deny these problems exist (like the balance of having a free water zone on the Engineer from Kit Refinement giving the Engi an alternative set of condition removal skills) or they tell you to choose another class. The problem with that is you lose connection with your toon. I made the Engi first because I liked it, I shouldn’t have to change just because they made poor balance choices.
I don’t agree with the reviving thing, I actually miss being able to revive in every other game out there. It actually makes sense to keep it a revive for all right now.
This game just has too many limitations. They keep calling it casual but as a filthy filthy casual there simply aren’t enough casual things to do, and I’m not talking about simply fishing/farming/housing I’m also talking about activities like invasions/actual treasure hunts with meaningful rewards/skirmish style soloable content things I’ve seen and done in every other title I’ve played. When even WoW has soloable content beyond max level and your game doesn’t you’re lagging behind a bit.
Balance Team: Please Fix Mine Toolbelt Positioning!
(edited by tigirius.9014)
For me, I found that GW2 is considerably less gated, restricted and grindy.
Hang on… either GW2 is “rich in RP” as a previous poster said, or it isn’t. When did you ever play an RPG that wasn’t gated? Anet made the mistake of dumbing things down in GW1 too. Not everyone wants the log in – kill stuff – log out – quick fix. If I wanted a FPS or 3PS then I’d go out and buy one.
ALL RPGs are gated… level progression, gear progression etc. are all part of the RPG genre.
Grind for progression – good thing. Grind for cosmetics – very bad thing!
Look at Gw2 pets? Seriously, a juvenile pet that never, ever grows up – seriously? GW1 pets were WAY superior!
Sorry, but a personal like of GW1 or not, I’m a gamer, a playtester and have been a developer in the past and GW1 is simply a superior experience. It has the odd NPE (please look it up if you don’t know the term) but Gw2 is riddled with them. My only conclusion is that GW2 has been developed by a bunch of folks who are neither gamers or RPGers – which, after all the community interaction that drove GW1 and the hopes for a sequel, is totally gobsmacking!
And no, compared to GW1 it’s population and longevity, GW2 is NOT working. You only have to compare the number to see that, no matter how much you love GW2.
I would personally LOVE companions that would eliminate the need for 5 mans, or the ability to do skirmish style dungeons where they scale with the number of players you have or remain soloable like in Rift/LOTRO. I’d love having the ability to kill Champions and actually be rewarded for it without the fear of some draconian system like DR stepping in and taking over.
Some of the issues for me are the lack of combat balance in PVE that’s been allowed to carry on far far too long imo. People on here don’t help either, they either deny these problems exist (like the balance of having a free water zone on the Engineer from Kit Refinement giving the Engi an alternative set of condition removal skills) or they tell you to choose another class. The problem with that is you lose connection with your toon. I made the Engi first because I liked it, I shouldn’t have to change just because they made poor balance choices.
I don’t agree with the reviving thing, I actually miss being able to revive in every other game out there. It actually makes sense to keep it a revive for all right now.
This game just has too many limitations. They keep calling it casual but as a filthy filthy casual there simply aren’t enough casual things to do, and I’m not talking about simply fishing/farming/housing I’m also talking about activities like invasions/actual treasure hunts with meaningful rewards/skirmish style soloable content things I’ve seen and done in every other title I’ve played. When even WoW has soloable content beyond max level and your game doesn’t you’re lagging behind a bit.
Not sure you realize this, but many of the people touting how great Guild Wars 1 was in the day are the same people saying what killed it was the introduction of heroes.
My take on it is this:
Skill selection was better in GW1.
Build diversity was leaps and bounds better in GW1.
The story/writing was better in GW1.
The balance arguably was better in GW1.
The amount of PvP game modes was better in GW1.
Repeatable endgame content was superior in GW1.
RNG was less apparent in GW1.
The combat mechanics are better in GW2.
The graphics are better in GW2.
The existence of a trading post is a plus for GW2.
The open world is plus for GW2.
I would have been greatly impressed had ANet simply used the GW1 mold, but in an open world, with updated graphics, a server-wide trading post, and the current combat mechanics (move-while-casting and dodge roll). Now that’s a game I would have loved.
My take on it is this:
Skill selection was better in GW1.
Build diversity was leaps and bounds better in GW1.
The story/writing was better in GW1.
The balance arguably was better in GW1.
The amount of PvP game modes was better in GW1.
Repeatable endgame content was superior in GW1.
RNG was less apparent in GW1.
The combat mechanics are better in GW2.
The graphics are better in GW2.
The existence of a trading post is a plus for GW2.
The open world is plus for GW2.I would have been greatly impressed had ANet simply used the GW1 mold, but in an open world, with updated graphics, a server-wide trading post, and the current combat mechanics (move-while-casting and dodge roll). Now that’s a game I would have loved.
Oh yeah, now that would have been ABSOLUTELY AWESOME to have had the “best of GW1 in GW2” with GW2s mechanics, graphics, TP and open world. That would have been a game i’d have proposed to not just loved as I did in GW1.
Mud Bone – Sylvari Ranger
My take on it is this:
Skill selection was better in GW1.
Build diversity was leaps and bounds better in GW1.
The story/writing was better in GW1.
The balance arguably was better in GW1.
The amount of PvP game modes was better in GW1.
Repeatable endgame content was superior in GW1.
RNG was less apparent in GW1.
The combat mechanics are better in GW2.
The graphics are better in GW2.
The existence of a trading post is a plus for GW2.
The open world is plus for GW2.I would have been greatly impressed had ANet simply used the GW1 mold, but in an open world, with updated graphics, a server-wide trading post, and the current combat mechanics (move-while-casting and dodge roll). Now that’s a game I would have loved.
Oh yeah, now that would have been ABSOLUTELY AWESOME to have had the “best of GW1 in GW2” with GW2s mechanics, graphics, TP and open world. That would have been a game i’d have proposed to not just loved as I did in GW1.
The majority of the people that I play with in GW2 agree on this. Put the GW1’s soul ( content and features, e.g. maps, skillsets, dungeons, classes and so on ) into GW2’s body ( mechanics and visuals ) and you’ll get the best MMO game ever.
Three 80-lvl Rangers. Why? ‘Cos they’re that cool.
I enjoyed GW1, and my main character an Elementalist was the only character I realy got a connection too… All my other character was cool and I made a story for them sure… But it is no different there for me in GW2 as all my characters are decendants to my old characters and I have made stories for them too and actually thanks to the open world and more advanced mechanics I have a better connection to my GW2 characters. As I play the game and do the Living story I evolve my characters own stories and I base my answers to their personality, it does not always work but it is something atleast.
In GW1 I more or less used the same skills and setup through all my time while playing the game… Why I had to change was becouse of introduction of new skills or fixes to old skills. I see no difference in GW1 and GW2 build making in posabilities, it is all the same but the only difference is there are more skills in GW1 than in GW2 but there are still more or less the same ammount of viable builds.
I picked up GW1 a few months ago as I was going to show my girlfriend the game I played it for about 10min and just couldn’t continue… I just couldn’t find the feel for it anymore, everything fealt so stale and it was so slow and more… I just couldn’t continue. I wan’t to becouse I want more in my HoM but as I don’t have the feel for it, it will just feel like work.
Member of Alpha Swedish Gaming Community – http://www.alphas.se/
Guild Leader of Alpha Sgc [ASGC]
Guild Leader of Alpha Sgc [ASGC]
I enjoyed GW1, and my main character an Elementalist was the only character I realy got a connection too… All my other character was cool and I made a story for them sure… But it is no different there for me in GW2 as all my characters are decendants to my old characters and I have made stories for them too and actually thanks to the open world and more advanced mechanics I have a better connection to my GW2 characters. As I play the game and do the Living story I evolve my characters own stories and I base my answers to their personality, it does not always work but it is something atleast.
In GW1 I more or less used the same skills and setup through all my time while playing the game… Why I had to change was becouse of introduction of new skills or fixes to old skills. I see no difference in GW1 and GW2 build making in posabilities, it is all the same but the only difference is there are more skills in GW1 than in GW2 but there are still more or less the same ammount of viable builds.
I picked up GW1 a few months ago as I was going to show my girlfriend the game I played it for about 10min and just couldn’t continue… I just couldn’t find the feel for it anymore, everything fealt so stale and it was so slow and more… I just couldn’t continue. I wan’t to becouse I want more in my HoM but as I don’t have the feel for it, it will just feel like work.
i agree going back is hard, but i will tell you 100% not true that gw2 has more viable builds than gw1
I enjoyed GW1, and my main character an Elementalist was the only character I realy got a connection too… All my other character was cool and I made a story for them sure… But it is no different there for me in GW2 as all my characters are decendants to my old characters and I have made stories for them too and actually thanks to the open world and more advanced mechanics I have a better connection to my GW2 characters. As I play the game and do the Living story I evolve my characters own stories and I base my answers to their personality, it does not always work but it is something atleast.
In GW1 I more or less used the same skills and setup through all my time while playing the game… Why I had to change was becouse of introduction of new skills or fixes to old skills. I see no difference in GW1 and GW2 build making in posabilities, it is all the same but the only difference is there are more skills in GW1 than in GW2 but there are still more or less the same ammount of viable builds.
I picked up GW1 a few months ago as I was going to show my girlfriend the game I played it for about 10min and just couldn’t continue… I just couldn’t find the feel for it anymore, everything fealt so stale and it was so slow and more… I just couldn’t continue. I wan’t to becouse I want more in my HoM but as I don’t have the feel for it, it will just feel like work.
i agree going back is hard, but i will tell you 100% not true that gw2 has more viable builds than gw1
Yea… I may have exagirated alittle :P But imo their aint that many viable builds just becouse there are millions of skills.
Member of Alpha Swedish Gaming Community – http://www.alphas.se/
Guild Leader of Alpha Sgc [ASGC]
Guild Leader of Alpha Sgc [ASGC]
If GW2 is not working then why has it out lasted 2 major mmorpg that play a lot like it? GW1 at the end of the day was not a true mmorpg it was an online game with co-op GW2 is a full open world mmorpg there are just truth to dealing with that type of game vs just the simple “also has online play” type of game.
What 2 major MMO’s? And GW1 is still the #1 game that’s 10X better than GW2 even if it’s NOT an MMO.
I was hoping that Gw2 would have expansions. I know Living Story is what the devs are Jonesin’ about. They seem to forget this may be their project but ultimately it’s the player’s game. If the players aren’t pleased No matter how happy you are with it…. meh…
So… since No expansion seems forthcoming, the Money I wanted to give Anet, I gave to Trion.
Anyway. I know How you feel. I have 2 small gardens with the wife and she has 2 of her own…we each have the plans for a Big scarecrow, just working on getting the same for 2 alts.
here is the thing..people will talk about the features of games. or the " growing pains" etc.. the whole." bad launch" vs" what do you expect from an MMO launch anyway?" arguments In AA.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
I rather wait on queue, for an hour to play AA. than to just log in here. Me and the wife were trying to row across the ocean… to get our trade pack across. We had to avoid Jelly fish and sharks that were level 50, we were 15. And avoid the rival faction… that if they saw us would eat us for breakfast….
Know what?
We failed to get across. We were killed by a clipper full of Harani. But. we made friends and got Invited Into a guild on the west coast.
THAT even dieing, Losing XP on death, getting armor damaged. Losing my rowboat..and our trade packs….
is better and More fun than Gw2 is today.
That is My opinion anyway. Degustibus et coloris non disputandum est.
Edit :
Best way that AA beats gw2….
AA doesn’t Mollycoddle you.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
(edited by Nerelith.7360)
If GW2 is not working then why has it out lasted 2 major mmorpg that play a lot like it? GW1 at the end of the day was not a true mmorpg it was an online game with co-op GW2 is a full open world mmorpg there are just truth to dealing with that type of game vs just the simple “also has online play” type of game.
What 2 major MMO’s? And GW1 is still the #1 game that’s 10X better than GW2 even if it’s NOT an MMO.
I was hoping that Gw2 would have expansions. I know Living Story is what the devs are Jonesin’ about. They seem to forget this may be their project but ultimately it’s the player’s game. If the players aren’t pleased No matter how happy you are with it…. meh…
So… since No expansion seems forthcoming, the Money I wanted to give Anet, I gave to Trion.
Anyway. I know How you feel. I have 2 small gardens with the wife and she has 2 of her own…we each have the plans for a Big scarecrow, just working on getting the same for 2 alts.
here is the thing..people will talk about the features of games. or the " growing pains" etc.. the whole." bad launch" vs" what do you expect from an MMO launch anyway?" arguments In AA.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
I rather wait on queue, for an hour to play AA. than to just log in here. Me and the wife were trying to row across the ocean… to get our trade pack across. We had to avoid Jelly fish and sharks that were level 50, we were 15. And avoid the rival faction… that if they saw us would eat us for breakfast….
Know what?
We failed to get across. We were killed by a clipper full of Harani. But. we made friends and got Invited Into a guild on the west coast.THAT even dieing, Losing XP on death, getting armor damaged. Losing my rowboat..and our trade packs….
is better and More fun than Gw2 is today.
That is My opinion anyway. Degustibus et coloris non disputandum est.
Edit :
Best way that AA beats gw2….
AA doesn’t Mollycoddle you.
You’re right. AA doesn’t mollycoddle you. It lets you sit in queues for 7 hours, brings out packs that make the founders packs relatively obsolete, tells you it’s a free game, but you pretty much have to subscribe to play it, and in 3 months, when the free players realize they can’t really play for free it’ll be owned by a few big guilds who control everything.
It’s a PvP game without a PvE server. I’m sure it’s going to be very successful.
Have you looked at the forums, they’re far worse than these forums at the worst and that’s on launch day. AA will do okay but it’ll be a niche game, for people who like a very specific experience. My guess is it’ll be pay to win before long.
I really do hope Anet is working on an expansion because if it’s not, there’s going to be issues down the line.
Right now, however, Anet has little to worry about due to Archeage.
(edited by Vayne.8563)
The only massive problems I have with the game are way too much RNG and lack of character progression or customisation.
Rewards associated with everything has such extreme RNG associated with it that it makes accomplishments hollow. Precursors, FotM weapons, and most valuables are all so associated with RNG that you don’t go ‘wow, that guy’s determination is impressive’, you go ‘how lucky of him’.
Build diversity is extremely low. Half the traits are just useless in all settings, and fixed weapon skills means that in a lot of cases either you settle with useless skills on your bar and there’s nothing you can do about it. It feels more like playing smash bros than playing a RPG.
You’re right. AA doesn’t mollycoddle you. It lets you sit in queues for 7 hours,
launch week, all of them have issues. Ever Gw2 had issues On launch. They are working on the situation correctly, they realize that the merely curious won’t stay and will be gone in a few weeks, so adding a Lot of servers is the wring way to go.
brings out packs that make the founders packs relatively obsolete,
This isn’t true. Founder’s pack included alpha server access, all closed beta access guarenteed, up to 3 months of patron status, and a BUNCH of credits you can spend anyway you wish.
The starter has Trion spending those credits for you. I’ll take Founders any day, and twice on sunday. Obsolete? Just a Bunch of whiners whining cause..whiners gotta whine.
tells you it’s a free game, but you pretty much have to subscribe to play it,
marketing. it’s a free2try unlimited duration… stripped down version of the full pay2play AA game. Complaining cause things are not available to free2play, that are granted to subscribers is Like complaining that .. some software has a Premium only for subscribers and a " Lite" for trial users.
and in 3 months, when the free players realize they can’t really play for free it’ll be owned by a few big guilds who control everything.
Pure speculation, so I won’t discuss this at all since it’s launch week
It’s a PvP game without a PvE server. I’m sure it’s going to be very successful.
It is a PvP game at it’s core, it cannot have a PvE server, Not every MMO has to have a PvE server. Any PvE player that comes to AA downloaded a game that may not be for them. Just like Gw2 is Not for players that want mounts.
Have you looked at the forums, they’re far worse than these forums at the worst and that’s on launch day. AA will do okay but it’ll be a niche game, for people who like a very specific experience. My guess is it’ll be pay to win before long.
Forum whiners. Nothing wrong with a Niche game, not every game has to appeal to everyone. And… whether it goes P2win,…Pure speculation..see above.
I really do hope Anet is working on an expansion because if it’s not, there’s going to be issues down the line.
I agree. But none has been announced.
Right now, however, Anet has little to worry about due to Archeage.
There was a time when Players that played EverQuest said the same thing about anew game called “World of Warcraft”
" SoE has little to worry about World of Warcraft, it’s EQ Lite… dumbed down, and stripped down."
Any developer that doesn’t " worry" about it’s competition, should not be running an MMO.
AA and Gw2 are competing for the same food supply. MMO players.
Know what we call a species that refuses to " worry" about a predator that eats the same thing it does?
Extinct.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
(edited by Nerelith.7360)
Just an addendum to the above. There are many Players here on Gw2, that have been asking for some things, since the beginning of gw2, that for them… is what a “casual” MMO should Include.
Off the top of My head, I remember…
- Player housing
- combat pets
- speed boost mounts
- mounts acquired through gameplay
- Open world PvP
Go through your chek list. AA has them. Now will all of those players leave for AA?
Maybe …maybe Not. But.. Anet would be foolish to gamble that they will not,.. and downright incompetent not to worry about it.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
You’re right. AA doesn’t mollycoddle you. It lets you sit in queues for 7 hours,
launch week, all of them have issues. Ever Gw2 had issues On launch. They are working on the situation correctly, they realize that the merely curious won’t stay and will be gone in a few weeks, so adding a Lot of servers is the wring way to go.
brings out packs that make the founders packs relatively obsolete,
This isn’t true. Founder’s pack included alpha server access, all closed beta access guarenteed, up to 3 months of patron status, and a BUNCH of credits you can spend anyway you wish.
The starter has Trion spending those credits for you. I’ll take Founders any day, and twice on sunday. Obsolete? Just a Bunch of whiners whining cause..whiners gotta whine.
tells you it’s a free game, but you pretty much have to subscribe to play it,
marketing. it’s a free2try unlimited duration… stripped down version of the full pay2play AA game. Complaining cause things are not available to free2play, that are granted to subscribers is Like complaining that .. some software has a Premium only for subscribers and a " Lite" for trial users.
and in 3 months, when the free players realize they can’t really play for free it’ll be owned by a few big guilds who control everything.
Pure speculation, so I won’t discuss this at all since it’s launch week
It’s a PvP game without a PvE server. I’m sure it’s going to be very successful.
It is a PvP game at it’s core, it cannot have a PvE server, Not every MMO has to have a PvE server. Any PvE player that comes to AA downloaded a game that may not be for them. Just like Gw2 is Not for players that want mounts.
Have you looked at the forums, they’re far worse than these forums at the worst and that’s on launch day. AA will do okay but it’ll be a niche game, for people who like a very specific experience. My guess is it’ll be pay to win before long.
Forum whiners. Nothing wrong with a Niche game, not every game has to appeal to everyone. And… whether it goes P2win,…Pure speculation..see above.
I really do hope Anet is working on an expansion because if it’s not, there’s going to be issues down the line.
I agree. But none has been announced.
Right now, however, Anet has little to worry about due to Archeage.
There was a time when Players that played EverQuest said the same thing about anew game called “World of Warcraft”
" SoE has little to worry about World of Warcraft, it’s EQ Lite… dumbed down, and stripped down."
Any developer that doesn’t " worry" about it’s competition, should not be running an MMO.
AA and Gw2 are competing for the same food supply. MMO players.
Know what we call a species that refuses to " worry" about a predator that eats the same thing it does?
Extinct.
It IS a different market. Anet knows which side their bread is buttered on. They don’t push the dungeon team. They push achievements and collections. Why? Because my crowd isn’t likely to EVER go to Archeage even if it was truly free…and it’s not. Labor points indeed. If the company is this greedy at launch, just imagine how much fun it’ll be when the launch crowd fades..and it will. It always does.
It’s a misnomer to say that MMO players are the same supply. Any more than people who like sports are all going to like baseball. There’s casual people, hard core people, people who want sand box, people who want theme park. Traditionally, theme park MMORPGs have had more players than sandbox. I believe that trend will continue.
This game had a lot of problems at launch…but at launch these forums didn’t look those those forums.
You’re right. AA doesn’t mollycoddle you. It lets you sit in queues for 7 hours,
launch week, all of them have issues. Ever Gw2 had issues On launch. They are working on the situation correctly, they realize that the merely curious won’t stay and will be gone in a few weeks, so adding a Lot of servers is the wring way to go.
brings out packs that make the founders packs relatively obsolete,
This isn’t true. Founder’s pack included alpha server access, all closed beta access guarenteed, up to 3 months of patron status, and a BUNCH of credits you can spend anyway you wish.
The starter has Trion spending those credits for you. I’ll take Founders any day, and twice on sunday. Obsolete? Just a Bunch of whiners whining cause..whiners gotta whine.
tells you it’s a free game, but you pretty much have to subscribe to play it,
marketing. it’s a free2try unlimited duration… stripped down version of the full pay2play AA game. Complaining cause things are not available to free2play, that are granted to subscribers is Like complaining that .. some software has a Premium only for subscribers and a " Lite" for trial users.
and in 3 months, when the free players realize they can’t really play for free it’ll be owned by a few big guilds who control everything.
Pure speculation, so I won’t discuss this at all since it’s launch week
It’s a PvP game without a PvE server. I’m sure it’s going to be very successful.
It is a PvP game at it’s core, it cannot have a PvE server, Not every MMO has to have a PvE server. Any PvE player that comes to AA downloaded a game that may not be for them. Just like Gw2 is Not for players that want mounts.
Have you looked at the forums, they’re far worse than these forums at the worst and that’s on launch day. AA will do okay but it’ll be a niche game, for people who like a very specific experience. My guess is it’ll be pay to win before long.
Forum whiners. Nothing wrong with a Niche game, not every game has to appeal to everyone. And… whether it goes P2win,…Pure speculation..see above.
I really do hope Anet is working on an expansion because if it’s not, there’s going to be issues down the line.
I agree. But none has been announced.
Right now, however, Anet has little to worry about due to Archeage.
There was a time when Players that played EverQuest said the same thing about anew game called “World of Warcraft”
" SoE has little to worry about World of Warcraft, it’s EQ Lite… dumbed down, and stripped down."
Any developer that doesn’t " worry" about it’s competition, should not be running an MMO.
AA and Gw2 are competing for the same food supply. MMO players.
Know what we call a species that refuses to " worry" about a predator that eats the same thing it does?
Extinct.
It IS a different market. Anet knows which side their bread is buttered on. They don’t push the dungeon team. They push achievements and collections. Why? Because my crowd isn’t likely to EVER go to Archeage even if it was truly free…and it’s not. Labor points indeed. If the company is this greedy at launch, just imagine how much fun it’ll be when the launch crowd fades..and it will. It always does.
It’s a misnomer to say that MMO players are the same supply. Any more than people who like sports are all going to like baseball. There’s casual people, hard core people, people who want sand box, people who want theme park. Traditionally, theme park MMORPGs have had more players than sandbox. I believe that trend will continue.
This game had a lot of problems at launch…but at launch these forums didn’t look those those forums.
gw2 doesnt need to fear AA, in a way, GW2 needs to fear every mmo, because they are not maximizing, and improving the appeal of their game, hence, they will lose a lot of players to a lot of different games. AA wont kill it, but it will bleed it, WS wont kill it but it ll bleed, WoW expansion? bleed. Because once you play gw2 for awhile, you can just stop, it is not growing. it is not expanding, it is not getting deeper.
So no, AA wouldnt be a threat to a strong new gw2, they are really different markets with only slight overlap, but people who been playing this game for awhile are starving for substantial content, they are going to go where the food is.
And AA, has some big probs, but its not something you can get in too many places, if you like it, even somewhat, thats basically the game you will have to play, probably till black desert hits.
It may be a different market. Let’s see whom does Gw2 consider it’s target demographic?
Players that prefer PvE to PvP, although they may do both? I Love PvE, am mainly a PvE player, despise PvP, the ONLY form of PvP I ever enjoyed was GvG In Guild Wars.
Players that love Themeparks and are not really into sandbox? That also describes me…
Players that Like " The levelling experience" and hate " level grinding"?
Same here.
from what I see Anet has nothing to worry about, I would never go to play Archeage. Right?
As to “Labor Potion” making AA Pay2win. Only if you define pay2win, as " being able to buy advantage for cash off the cash store."
If that is your definition, then…
Gw2 is also pay2win.
Any definition you can loosen up to the extent of including AA, so that you can say " By THIS definition AA is pay2win", …Gw2 also fits.
AA doesn’t have to be free to appeal to gw2’s demographic. I myself am paying a Montly sub to play AA.
A player that loves Gw2, calling AA greedy. Pot calling kettle?
I agree Theme park MMO’s have more players than sandbox MMO’s.
There are two issues. First This Themepark MMO, has players that like sandbox MMO’s, and those are at risk.
Secondly, AA also has Themepark elements. So those that Like " a Little of both… may ask." does AA have enough themepark, and enough sandbox to hit that sweetspot?"
Also remember you have had a LOT of players that think about " casual" MMO’s as having some things. Fishing, Mounts, Speed Boost, Player Housing… off the top of My head.
Anet doesn’t have it, AA does.
So I agree. The casual, players may… go to AA , or Not. Those wanting combat pets, those wanting fishing, those wanting speed boost mounts.. those wanting player housing….
And then thre are players Like me. I have been here since Guild Wars. I am Gw2’s demographic. And I am also leaving for AA
so maybe you’re right Anet doesn’t need to be concerned.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
Just an addendum to the above. There are many Players here on Gw2, that have been asking for some things, since the beginning of gw2, that for them… is what a “casual” MMO should Include.
Off the top of My head, I remember…
- Player housing
- combat pets
- speed boost mounts
- mounts acquired through gameplay
- Open world PvP
Go through your chek list. AA has them. Now will all of those players leave for AA?
Maybe …maybe Not. But.. Anet would be foolish to gamble that they will not,.. and downright incompetent not to worry about it.
Anet made a game not for those people. Do you really think Anet couldnt’ have put mounts in this game. It’s not the game they wanted to make. Do you really think that Anet wants a game with open world PvP. That’s not the game they wanted to make. They haven’t even added dueling for a reason.
If everyone who wants that stuff leaves today, this game will end up growing over time, since those players aren’t really compatible with the target audience for this game.
Yes this game has a target audience. Anet has a focus. That focus is the casual gamer. Good luck to a casual gamer in AA.
If you really think this is an issue of this game, there isn’t anything further to discuss.
Just an addendum to the above. There are many Players here on Gw2, that have been asking for some things, since the beginning of gw2, that for them… is what a “casual” MMO should Include.
Off the top of My head, I remember…
- Player housing
- combat pets
- speed boost mounts
- mounts acquired through gameplay
- Open world PvP
Go through your chek list. AA has them. Now will all of those players leave for AA?
Maybe …maybe Not. But.. Anet would be foolish to gamble that they will not,.. and downright incompetent not to worry about it.
Anet made a game not for those people. Do you really think Anet couldnt’ have put mounts in this game. It’s not the game they wanted to make. Do you really think that Anet wants a game with open world PvP. That’s not the game they wanted to make. They haven’t even added dueling for a reason.
If everyone who wants that stuff leaves today, this game will end up growing over time, since those players aren’t really compatible with the target audience for this game.
Yes this game has a target audience. Anet has a focus. That focus is the casual gamer. Good luck to a casual gamer in AA.
If you really think this is an issue of this game, there isn’t anything further to discuss.
Let’s agree to disagree. But I do agree with Phys. AA won’t kill Gw2, but it will bleed players.
As for casual players On AA, I’d doing just fine.
Vayne, I agree AA has problems, I am not going over there with rose colored glasses. But it IS filling a Niche, that has been neglected since I left EverQuest when everyone went to play WoW.
I really hoped Gw2 would be the game, but unfortunately after 2 years I need to say it’s Not.
And from what little I have experienced, AA is. And that includes getting ganked by a Boat load of level 25’s in the high seas. I hate PvP… I Just cannot abide it, but… It works in AA, and makes even a simple task a knuckle – biter. Something gw2 never did.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
Just an addendum to the above. There are many Players here on Gw2, that have been asking for some things, since the beginning of gw2, that for them… is what a “casual” MMO should Include.
Off the top of My head, I remember…
- Player housing
- combat pets
- speed boost mounts
- mounts acquired through gameplay
- Open world PvP
Go through your chek list. AA has them. Now will all of those players leave for AA?
Maybe …maybe Not. But.. Anet would be foolish to gamble that they will not,.. and downright incompetent not to worry about it.
Anet made a game not for those people. Do you really think Anet couldnt’ have put mounts in this game. It’s not the game they wanted to make. Do you really think that Anet wants a game with open world PvP. That’s not the game they wanted to make. They haven’t even added dueling for a reason.
If everyone who wants that stuff leaves today, this game will end up growing over time, since those players aren’t really compatible with the target audience for this game.
Yes this game has a target audience. Anet has a focus. That focus is the casual gamer. Good luck to a casual gamer in AA.
If you really think this is an issue of this game, there isn’t anything further to discuss.
Let’s agree to disagree. But I do agree with Phys. AA won’t kill Gw2, but it will bleed players.
As for casual players On AA, I’d doing just fine.
Vayne, I agree AA has problems, I am not going over there with rose colored glasses. But it IS filling a Niche, that has been neglected since I left EverQuest when everyone went to play WoW.
I really hoped Gw2 would be the game, but unfortunately after 2 years I need to say it’s Not.
And from what little I have experienced, AA is. And that includes getting ganked by a Boat load of level 25’s in the high seas. I hate PvP… I Just cannot abide it, but… It works in AA, and makes even a simple task a knuckle – biter. Something gw2 never did.
AA is filling a niche. But it’ll never be more than just a niche.
For each person who leaves for AA, someone is coming back from ESO or Wildstar. That’s the nature of the beast. We have a revolving player base. Anet knew it when they made the game.
Just an addendum to the above. There are many Players here on Gw2, that have been asking for some things, since the beginning of gw2, that for them… is what a “casual” MMO should Include.
Off the top of My head, I remember…
- Player housing
- combat pets
- speed boost mounts
- mounts acquired through gameplay
- Open world PvP
Go through your chek list. AA has them. Now will all of those players leave for AA?
Maybe …maybe Not. But.. Anet would be foolish to gamble that they will not,.. and downright incompetent not to worry about it.
Anet made a game not for those people. Do you really think Anet couldnt’ have put mounts in this game. It’s not the game they wanted to make. Do you really think that Anet wants a game with open world PvP. That’s not the game they wanted to make. They haven’t even added dueling for a reason.
If everyone who wants that stuff leaves today, this game will end up growing over time, since those players aren’t really compatible with the target audience for this game.
Yes this game has a target audience. Anet has a focus. That focus is the casual gamer. Good luck to a casual gamer in AA.
If you really think this is an issue of this game, there isn’t anything further to discuss.
Let’s agree to disagree. But I do agree with Phys. AA won’t kill Gw2, but it will bleed players.
As for casual players On AA, I’d doing just fine.
Vayne, I agree AA has problems, I am not going over there with rose colored glasses. But it IS filling a Niche, that has been neglected since I left EverQuest when everyone went to play WoW.
I really hoped Gw2 would be the game, but unfortunately after 2 years I need to say it’s Not.
And from what little I have experienced, AA is. And that includes getting ganked by a Boat load of level 25’s in the high seas. I hate PvP… I Just cannot abide it, but… It works in AA, and makes even a simple task a knuckle – biter. Something gw2 never did.
AA is filling a niche. But it’ll never be more than just a niche.
For each person who leaves for AA, someone is coming back from ESO or Wildstar. That’s the nature of the beast. We have a revolving player base. Anet knew it when they made the game.
I agree with you, let’s agree to disagree, because right now, all you are doing is speculating.
The mind is its own place and in itself, can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
Just an addendum to the above. There are many Players here on Gw2, that have been asking for some things, since the beginning of gw2, that for them… is what a “casual” MMO should Include.
Off the top of My head, I remember…
- Player housing
- combat pets
- speed boost mounts
- mounts acquired through gameplay
- Open world PvP
Go through your chek list. AA has them. Now will all of those players leave for AA?
Maybe …maybe Not. But.. Anet would be foolish to gamble that they will not,.. and downright incompetent not to worry about it.
Anet made a game not for those people. Do you really think Anet couldnt’ have put mounts in this game. It’s not the game they wanted to make. Do you really think that Anet wants a game with open world PvP. That’s not the game they wanted to make. They haven’t even added dueling for a reason.
If everyone who wants that stuff leaves today, this game will end up growing over time, since those players aren’t really compatible with the target audience for this game.
Yes this game has a target audience. Anet has a focus. That focus is the casual gamer. Good luck to a casual gamer in AA.
If you really think this is an issue of this game, there isn’t anything further to discuss.
Let’s agree to disagree. But I do agree with Phys. AA won’t kill Gw2, but it will bleed players.
As for casual players On AA, I’d doing just fine.
Vayne, I agree AA has problems, I am not going over there with rose colored glasses. But it IS filling a Niche, that has been neglected since I left EverQuest when everyone went to play WoW.
I really hoped Gw2 would be the game, but unfortunately after 2 years I need to say it’s Not.
And from what little I have experienced, AA is. And that includes getting ganked by a Boat load of level 25’s in the high seas. I hate PvP… I Just cannot abide it, but… It works in AA, and makes even a simple task a knuckle – biter. Something gw2 never did.
AA is filling a niche. But it’ll never be more than just a niche.
For each person who leaves for AA, someone is coming back from ESO or Wildstar. That’s the nature of the beast. We have a revolving player base. Anet knew it when they made the game.
I agree with you, let’s agree to disagree, because right now, all you are doing is speculating.
I agree. That’s all I’m doing. That’s all we’re all doing. There are several things no one knows, and because of that, all we can do is speculate.
1. How many people play Guild War 2?
2. Is there some big reveal Anet has up its sleeve?
3. Is the bulk of the playerbase as disatisfied as the forums make it sound?
Everything is speculation, down to how well AA will do. But I keep seeing these threads every single time a game comes out, and every single time so far, nothing has really come of it.
The real test is simply how many profit Anet makes from Guild Wars 2 and is it enough to sustain the game. So far it is.
That’s not speculation.
As someone who had every intention of playing AA (even bought arceum found pack) I will say that AA is already on the road to P2W. Free players have so much restriction placed on them, there’s no escape from PK, and it will very quickly devolve in to a subscriber-only game, unless you happen to enjoy getting obliterated non-stop unless you pay
Resident smug Englishman on the NA servers, just because.