Guild Wars 2

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

phys.7689:

RollingBob.8502:

Ayrilana.1396:

I think silk is just fine. What we need to do is fix the others so they’re the same as silk.

+1

for this plan to work you would need to a lot of other materials

thick leather needs to come up, hardened leather needs to come up, mithril needs to come up, oricalcum would then need to rise gossamer needs to rise, all fine mats should be more expensive than basic mats in that teir, so they need to rise.

And would this really be better for the economy?

everything would cost more gold, so it would not be as if you would actually be getting much value out of the increase.

And going by the way it was done in the past, not only would everything be more expensive, but it would require increasing your personal consumption to get satisfaction, by factors of like 4. (not only would everything cost more, but you would need a lot more of it to reach desirable outcomes)

you are not really gaining with changes like silk, you are just increasing the amount you have to grind.

short version, silk needs to come down, some other things need to go up, but its worthless, if making them go up, requires everyone to need more of them to achieve the same state they used to be at.

I was referring to the ascended only recipes for metal and leather T7 refinement to require 300 materials. This will negate the argument that it’s unfair that non-light armor players need less materials. The only argument that would remain is the differences in acquisition which would mainly be the differences in obtaining cloth/leather vs ore.

this would balance it, but i dont think the 300 material thing is actually a good daily requirement. requires about 2-3 hours of effort just for that 1 material, keep in mind these all require more materials/resources elsewhere, putting your total time investment in ascended armor per day, at like 4 hours or more. over 36 days. thats 144 hours
assuming the average player gets in 12 hours a week, thats 12 weeks. 2-3 months for a modest increase is discouraging for players.

Why does it have to be daily though? It can easily be made a long term goal which you can do over the course of several months. If all else fails, you can buy them off the TP. Even then, getting 300 mithril ore is not difficult and in no way requires more than an hour.

even if people dont do it daily, the time requirement is still there, you can decide to only put in 2 hours of work a day, but your still going to need to spend 144 hours actively pursuing it.
Which i think is too much for a lot of players. It would be ok for balance, but i dont think its the right number in terms of player investment.

It’s currently a BiS item for something that doesn’t substantially help you unless you do fractals and this is including the stats from infusions. The only reason that I got them was to free up bank space. I’m sitting in around 50 bolts of damask right now contemplating whether it would be worth it to craft a PVT set my light armor for if I were to take them into WvW.

I don’t think there is any really good solution to resolve this. Changing out what materials are used for insignias could have its merits but then there would be the need to rebalance this across all recipes and then the after effects this would have on the materials and recipes involved.

Kris P Baykon.8496:

Aidan Savage.2078:

*Your post is fairly offtopic so…. probably does break the rules. And since your post is pretty much off topic, I dont have much to reply to you with.

Yet, here you are typing a paragraph that is simply diminishing my feedback and is definitely not adding anything constructive to the conversation.

As long as you sandwich/include something constructive to the discussion then you’re good. I could necro an old thread from years ago about how silk scraps were always tossed or vendored and then laugh about how things are so different now. So long as I posted constructively somewhere in that post which added to the old discussion, I’d be good. That’s what I have recently learned.

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s currently a BiS item for something that doesn’t substantially help you unless you do fractals and this is including the stats from infusions. The only reason that I got them was to free up bank space. I’m sitting in around 50 bolts of damask right now contemplating whether it would be worth it to craft a PVT set my light armor for if I were to take them into WvW.

I don’t think there is any really good solution to resolve this. Changing out what materials are used for insignias could have its merits but then there would be the need to rebalance this across all recipes and then the after effects this would have on the materials and recipes involved.

I think the gains of having the option to use other materials would outweigh the weirdness of not being able to craft the lower end materials.
But that said.
armor already has access to silk
and leather has access to leather
and silk has access to leather

so if heavy could make insignias out of cloth or metal
leather could make insignias out of leather or cloth
silk could make insignias out of cloth or leather

you would still have a lower cost option.

heavy wouldnt be able to take advantage of leather, but it would have the most direct, and cheapest means time wise of getting an insignia. And since leather will probably go up in value anyhow, metal may end up being similarly valued to leather.

As far as not substantially helping you, it really doesnt matter. a vertical increase is a vertical increase.
in many games there is virtually no difference between max level, and max level-1, but people still want max level. you are still objectively weaker. When things get tough, and supposedly they will in HoT, when a mission or event fails, they will be looking at that 3% difference. even if it isnt the main factor, thats easy objectively provable difference.

pdavis.8031:

What about adding silk to the salvage tables of medium armor? This would allow ~2/3 of armor drops (not counting for RNG or loot weighting per armor class) to be able to produce silk. What effect would it have on the silk market? Would it cause a massive influx of silk into the market and crash the prices? Or would it allow silk to become a bit more affordable, and still make “farming” silk a more viable option?

I think that’s by far the best solution to the Silk problem and I also suggested this earlier in this thread (I’m sure others did too). For some reason nobody commented on it though. Of course it should be used for other cloth materials too.

It could also be used on all items in the game. You are salvaging items to get materials used in their creation, so why not getting those types of materials when you salvage them?

This change is much much more preferable than changing the current recipes, changing the amount of silk needed for bolts, or how many bolts needed for damask will have a negative effect on people who already used the old prices to craft their items. I’m against that completely.

maddoctor.2738:

pdavis.8031:

What about adding silk to the salvage tables of medium armor? This would allow ~2/3 of armor drops (not counting for RNG or loot weighting per armor class) to be able to produce silk. What effect would it have on the silk market? Would it cause a massive influx of silk into the market and crash the prices? Or would it allow silk to become a bit more affordable, and still make “farming” silk a more viable option?

I think that’s by far the best solution to the Silk problem and I also suggested this earlier in this thread (I’m sure others did too). For some reason nobody commented on it though. Of course it should be used for other cloth materials too.

It could also be used on all items in the game. You are salvaging items to get materials used in their creation, so why not getting those types of materials when you salvage them?

This change is much much more preferable than changing the current recipes, changing the amount of silk needed for bolts, or how many bolts needed for damask will have a negative effect on people who already used the old prices to craft their items. I’m against that completely.

Yeah it probably got lost in the cacophony of arguments about metrics, supply and demand, unfairness, capitalism, communism, free markets, salvaging, etc. etc. (Very few of which really offered viable solutions)

maddoctor.2738:

pdavis.8031:

What about adding silk to the salvage tables of medium armor? This would allow ~2/3 of armor drops (not counting for RNG or loot weighting per armor class) to be able to produce silk. What effect would it have on the silk market? Would it cause a massive influx of silk into the market and crash the prices? Or would it allow silk to become a bit more affordable, and still make “farming” silk a more viable option?

I think that’s by far the best solution to the Silk problem and I also suggested this earlier in this thread (I’m sure others did too). For some reason nobody commented on it though. Of course it should be used for other cloth materials too.

It could also be used on all items in the game. You are salvaging items to get materials used in their creation, so why not getting those types of materials when you salvage them?

This change is much much more preferable than changing the current recipes, changing the amount of silk needed for bolts, or how many bolts needed for damask will have a negative effect on people who already used the old prices to craft their items. I’m against that completely.

this wouldnt really help anything, it would just increase the random element of what you get from a salavge.

its not that no one ever sees cloth items, they tend to drop at similar rates (at least they used to) its that the demand is high, and the supply is low. the supply would basically end up in the same place, assuming cloth would sometimes drop leather as often and leather drops cloth.

phys.7689:

maddoctor.2738:

pdavis.8031:

What about adding silk to the salvage tables of medium armor? This would allow ~2/3 of armor drops (not counting for RNG or loot weighting per armor class) to be able to produce silk. What effect would it have on the silk market? Would it cause a massive influx of silk into the market and crash the prices? Or would it allow silk to become a bit more affordable, and still make “farming” silk a more viable option?

I think that’s by far the best solution to the Silk problem and I also suggested this earlier in this thread (I’m sure others did too). For some reason nobody commented on it though. Of course it should be used for other cloth materials too.

It could also be used on all items in the game. You are salvaging items to get materials used in their creation, so why not getting those types of materials when you salvage them?

This change is much much more preferable than changing the current recipes, changing the amount of silk needed for bolts, or how many bolts needed for damask will have a negative effect on people who already used the old prices to craft their items. I’m against that completely.

this wouldnt really help anything, it would just increase the random element of what you get from a salavge.

its not that no one ever sees cloth items, they tend to drop at similar rates (at least they used to) its that the demand is high, and the supply is low. the supply would basically end up in the same place, assuming cloth would sometimes drop leather as often and leather drops cloth.

Then make is so cloth doesn’t drop leather. Just add cloth to leather armor. So salavging medium armor would have a chance to drop a bit of cloth, as well as the normal leather. This would increase the supply, although demand would stay the same. But having a larger pool from which to gain cloth would certainly increase the supply, no matter how you look at it. So those trying to “farm” cloth, would have a larger chance at getting it via salvaging. Leather would likely stay the same as well. And the only way to fix that, would be to have another significant leather sink. But thats another discussion and doesn’t really apply to this conversation.

pdavis.8031:

phys.7689:

maddoctor.2738:

pdavis.8031:

What about adding silk to the salvage tables of medium armor? This would allow ~2/3 of armor drops (not counting for RNG or loot weighting per armor class) to be able to produce silk. What effect would it have on the silk market? Would it cause a massive influx of silk into the market and crash the prices? Or would it allow silk to become a bit more affordable, and still make “farming” silk a more viable option?

I think that’s by far the best solution to the Silk problem and I also suggested this earlier in this thread (I’m sure others did too). For some reason nobody commented on it though. Of course it should be used for other cloth materials too.

It could also be used on all items in the game. You are salvaging items to get materials used in their creation, so why not getting those types of materials when you salvage them?

This change is much much more preferable than changing the current recipes, changing the amount of silk needed for bolts, or how many bolts needed for damask will have a negative effect on people who already used the old prices to craft their items. I’m against that completely.

this wouldnt really help anything, it would just increase the random element of what you get from a salavge.

its not that no one ever sees cloth items, they tend to drop at similar rates (at least they used to) its that the demand is high, and the supply is low. the supply would basically end up in the same place, assuming cloth would sometimes drop leather as often and leather drops cloth.

Then make is so cloth doesn’t drop leather. Just add cloth to leather armor. So salavging medium armor would have a chance to drop a bit of cloth, as well as the normal leather. This would increase the supply, although demand would stay the same. But having a larger pool from which to gain cloth would certainly increase the supply, no matter how you look at it. So those trying to “farm” cloth, would have a larger chance at getting it via salvaging. Leather would likely stay the same as well. And the only way to fix that, would be to have another significant leather sink. But thats another discussion and doesn’t really apply to this conversation.

it might work, but that would assume that the recipes and their salvage rates were similar

but since ascended requires different rates of materials silk would still be unnaturally valued.
basicaly a t5 body armor has a ratio of 15:9 leather to silk basic materials, or 5:3 ratio(1.6 to 1)
and a ascended body armor has a ratio of 750:1200 leather to silk, or .625 to 1 ratio

man, no wonder leather is completely screwed up.

adding your change would help, but it would still be pretty unbalanced.

good change though, from a balance standpoint.

bad for being able to pick what you want though, but ehh, might be the way to go.

they should bring ascended crafting ratios of what is needed back in line though. Kind of crazy you need more silk than you need leather to make leather items.

phys.7689:

pdavis.8031:

phys.7689:

maddoctor.2738:

pdavis.8031:

What about adding silk to the salvage tables of medium armor? This would allow ~2/3 of armor drops (not counting for RNG or loot weighting per armor class) to be able to produce silk. What effect would it have on the silk market? Would it cause a massive influx of silk into the market and crash the prices? Or would it allow silk to become a bit more affordable, and still make “farming” silk a more viable option?

I think that’s by far the best solution to the Silk problem and I also suggested this earlier in this thread (I’m sure others did too). For some reason nobody commented on it though. Of course it should be used for other cloth materials too.

It could also be used on all items in the game. You are salvaging items to get materials used in their creation, so why not getting those types of materials when you salvage them?

This change is much much more preferable than changing the current recipes, changing the amount of silk needed for bolts, or how many bolts needed for damask will have a negative effect on people who already used the old prices to craft their items. I’m against that completely.

this wouldnt really help anything, it would just increase the random element of what you get from a salavge.

its not that no one ever sees cloth items, they tend to drop at similar rates (at least they used to) its that the demand is high, and the supply is low. the supply would basically end up in the same place, assuming cloth would sometimes drop leather as often and leather drops cloth.

Then make is so cloth doesn’t drop leather. Just add cloth to leather armor. So salavging medium armor would have a chance to drop a bit of cloth, as well as the normal leather. This would increase the supply, although demand would stay the same. But having a larger pool from which to gain cloth would certainly increase the supply, no matter how you look at it. So those trying to “farm” cloth, would have a larger chance at getting it via salvaging. Leather would likely stay the same as well. And the only way to fix that, would be to have another significant leather sink. But thats another discussion and doesn’t really apply to this conversation.

it might work, but that would assume that the recipes and their salvage rates were similar

but since ascended requires different rates of materials silk would still be unnaturally valued.
basicaly a t5 body armor has a ratio of 15:9 leather to silk basic materials, or 5:3 ratio(1.6 to 1)
and a ascended body armor has a ratio of 750:1200 leather to silk, or .625 to 1 ratio

man, no wonder leather is completely screwed up.

adding your change would help, but it would still be pretty unbalanced.

good change though, from a balance standpoint.

bad for being able to pick what you want though, but ehh, might be the way to go.

they should bring ascended crafting ratios of what is needed back in line though. Kind of crazy you need more silk than you need leather to make leather items.

I almost had a heart attack!!!!
At last an idea you can (kind of) agree on! :P

However, I still am not convinced that bringing the ratios in line with each other would actually be a good idea. But as thats been discussed Ad nauseam, so I’ll just leave it at that.

pdavis.8031:

phys.7689:

pdavis.8031:

phys.7689:

maddoctor.2738:

pdavis.8031:

What about adding silk to the salvage tables of medium armor? This would allow ~2/3 of armor drops (not counting for RNG or loot weighting per armor class) to be able to produce silk. What effect would it have on the silk market? Would it cause a massive influx of silk into the market and crash the prices? Or would it allow silk to become a bit more affordable, and still make “farming” silk a more viable option?

I think that’s by far the best solution to the Silk problem and I also suggested this earlier in this thread (I’m sure others did too). For some reason nobody commented on it though. Of course it should be used for other cloth materials too.

It could also be used on all items in the game. You are salvaging items to get materials used in their creation, so why not getting those types of materials when you salvage them?

This change is much much more preferable than changing the current recipes, changing the amount of silk needed for bolts, or how many bolts needed for damask will have a negative effect on people who already used the old prices to craft their items. I’m against that completely.

this wouldnt really help anything, it would just increase the random element of what you get from a salavge.

its not that no one ever sees cloth items, they tend to drop at similar rates (at least they used to) its that the demand is high, and the supply is low. the supply would basically end up in the same place, assuming cloth would sometimes drop leather as often and leather drops cloth.

Then make is so cloth doesn’t drop leather. Just add cloth to leather armor. So salavging medium armor would have a chance to drop a bit of cloth, as well as the normal leather. This would increase the supply, although demand would stay the same. But having a larger pool from which to gain cloth would certainly increase the supply, no matter how you look at it. So those trying to “farm” cloth, would have a larger chance at getting it via salvaging. Leather would likely stay the same as well. And the only way to fix that, would be to have another significant leather sink. But thats another discussion and doesn’t really apply to this conversation.

it might work, but that would assume that the recipes and their salvage rates were similar

but since ascended requires different rates of materials silk would still be unnaturally valued.
basicaly a t5 body armor has a ratio of 15:9 leather to silk basic materials, or 5:3 ratio(1.6 to 1)
and a ascended body armor has a ratio of 750:1200 leather to silk, or .625 to 1 ratio

man, no wonder leather is completely screwed up.

adding your change would help, but it would still be pretty unbalanced.

good change though, from a balance standpoint.

bad for being able to pick what you want though, but ehh, might be the way to go.

they should bring ascended crafting ratios of what is needed back in line though. Kind of crazy you need more silk than you need leather to make leather items.

I almost had a heart attack!!!!
At last an idea you can (kind of) agree on! :P

However, I still am not convinced that bringing the ratios in line with each other would actually be a good idea. But as thats been discussed Ad nauseam, so I’ll just leave it at that.

i agree with all ideas that i think may solve the problem, and yeah this is something i noticed in the beginning of the game that i had long forgot about.

leather is supplied similarly to cloth, as if they had similar use in recipes
but cloth is used to a much greater extent.

basically cloth and leather is supplied sort of like a 1:1 ratio, but the recipes dont use them that way.
its even more exagerated with ascended leathercraft, too the point silk the most numerous material in all the recipes, but it still created at a similar rate to leather.

with this basic structure, leather will always be comparitively worthless with silk.
the demand for silk is always going to be at least 3-4 times higher than leather, while the supply is probably around somewhere in the family of 1:1, perhaps 2:1

this means, with this structure, cloth users will always have to pay noticeably more for their armor.

phys.7689:

maddoctor.2738:

pdavis.8031:

What about adding silk to the salvage tables of medium armor? This would allow ~2/3 of armor drops (not counting for RNG or loot weighting per armor class) to be able to produce silk. What effect would it have on the silk market? Would it cause a massive influx of silk into the market and crash the prices? Or would it allow silk to become a bit more affordable, and still make “farming” silk a more viable option?

I think that’s by far the best solution to the Silk problem and I also suggested this earlier in this thread (I’m sure others did too). For some reason nobody commented on it though. Of course it should be used for other cloth materials too.

It could also be used on all items in the game. You are salvaging items to get materials used in their creation, so why not getting those types of materials when you salvage them?

This change is much much more preferable than changing the current recipes, changing the amount of silk needed for bolts, or how many bolts needed for damask will have a negative effect on people who already used the old prices to craft their items. I’m against that completely.

this wouldnt really help anything, it would just increase the random element of what you get from a salavge.

its not that no one ever sees cloth items, they tend to drop at similar rates (at least they used to) its that the demand is high, and the supply is low. the supply would basically end up in the same place, assuming cloth would sometimes drop leather as often and leather drops cloth.

Changing the non-armor recipes that require Damask could also help in reducing demand. I’m talking about Wings of Dwayna, a very popular back skin that requires 15 Bolts of Damask to make. 15 Bolts of Damask a very very large amount that pushes the value of cloth materials way up, adding recipes for Wings of Dwayna (and the Grenth recipe too) that use Leather and/or Metal could easily help with Demand.

I also think more item made with recipes using Leather can really help push Leather prices higher. Like a new skin recipe that requires 25 pieces of Elonian Leather to make. Imagine allowing people to craft the Black Wings with Elonian Leather

maddoctor.2738:

phys.7689:

maddoctor.2738:

pdavis.8031:

What about adding silk to the salvage tables of medium armor? This would allow ~2/3 of armor drops (not counting for RNG or loot weighting per armor class) to be able to produce silk. What effect would it have on the silk market? Would it cause a massive influx of silk into the market and crash the prices? Or would it allow silk to become a bit more affordable, and still make “farming” silk a more viable option?

I think that’s by far the best solution to the Silk problem and I also suggested this earlier in this thread (I’m sure others did too). For some reason nobody commented on it though. Of course it should be used for other cloth materials too.

It could also be used on all items in the game. You are salvaging items to get materials used in their creation, so why not getting those types of materials when you salvage them?

This change is much much more preferable than changing the current recipes, changing the amount of silk needed for bolts, or how many bolts needed for damask will have a negative effect on people who already used the old prices to craft their items. I’m against that completely.

this wouldnt really help anything, it would just increase the random element of what you get from a salavge.

its not that no one ever sees cloth items, they tend to drop at similar rates (at least they used to) its that the demand is high, and the supply is low. the supply would basically end up in the same place, assuming cloth would sometimes drop leather as often and leather drops cloth.

Changing the non-armor recipes that require Damask could also help in reducing demand. I’m talking about Wings of Dwayna, a very popular back skin that requires 15 Bolts of Damask to make. 15 Bolts of Damask a very very large amount that pushes the value of cloth materials way up, adding recipes for Wings of Dwayna (and the Grenth recipe too) that use Leather and/or Metal could easily help with Demand.

I also think more item made with recipes using Leather can really help push Leather prices higher. Like a new skin recipe that requires 25 pieces of Elonian Leather to make. Imagine allowing people to craft the Black Wings with Elonian Leather

i would love to see what percentage these cosmetic recipes add to the overall demand, my feeling though is that it is very small over time.

in order to be a really good sink it either needs tons of materials, or it needs to be something people see some benefit in getting. possibly both.

i base this idea on the fact that ascended change made the value of silk go through the roof, whereas the value of silk after these recipes were introduced was a small bump, and then back to the previous value.

Solution: Remove silk as a requirement in ascended Heavy/med armor. Makes less demand for silk, benefiting light armored people.

That’s a ‘prestige’ skin.

When it comes to those, high costs is normal.

The problem is only costing damask.

Ascended and limited acqusition recipes recipes should unlock account-wide. And each armor discipline should use its main main material for it.

So the backs would still cost 15 of an ascended material, but players would be able to choose which one.

phys.7689:

Mikuchan.7261:

Summary / TL;DR
Create cloth gathering nodes
This could balance cloth price.
Make insignias craftable with all 3 armor crafting materials.
This could balance the material prices in relationship with eachother.

Click here to see long arguments for why and how

hide spoiler

Cut out to save characters, read original post at: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Why-is-silk-going-up-in-price/page/11#post4850840

cloth crafters would likely still be screwed, and leather would likely still be cheap. Youd also increase the minimum time to craft. (though not as much as now definately)
let insignias be craftable by any armor proffession using any material, and you solve the issue similarly, cloth will likely still be more expensive, but not as drastically. leather will likely rise in value. Time to craft will be similar for each, and overall more adjustable.

I don’t see what you mean with that minimum crafting time would increase?
Like.. I literally don’t understand what you mean.

Cloth crafters would indeed be screwed initially, but over time the prices will balance out. And you have the option to get another crafting discipline in order to get the insignias with those materials instead. So a cloth crafter could spend some 50-100 gold to level leathercrafting up enough to make elonian leather and then use those to make the insignias, thus creating demand for leather.

However as you say, things will be more easily adjustable.
It does sound like you agree with the idea?

maddoctor.2738:

Changing the non-armor recipes that require Damask could also help in reducing demand. I’m talking about Wings of Dwayna, a very popular back skin that requires 15 Bolts of Damask to make. 15 Bolts of Damask a very very large amount that pushes the value of cloth materials way up, adding recipes for Wings of Dwayna (and the Grenth recipe too) that use Leather and/or Metal could easily help with Demand.

I also think more item made with recipes using Leather can really help push Leather prices higher. Like a new skin recipe that requires 25 pieces of Elonian Leather to make. Imagine allowing people to craft the Black Wings with Elonian Leather

Light of Dwayna and the Grenth etc should be craftable with the other materials too I feel, but it’s of less importance.
This is also how I argue that insignias should work in my post, read above.
If you can use any material for the insignias, and with the backpieces, the imbalance between the demand for Damask, Elonian leather and Deldrimor steel is removed and the prices will balance over time. But since the backpieces are cosmetic only, it doesn’t matter as much for them specifically.

Edit: Nope, I was wrong, they can’t be crafted with leather or steel as I originally said. But I could have sworn it was that way… Might have mixed it up with the blade backpack where Gift of Blades indeed work that way.
Edited the post to account for the edits.. heh… embarrassing hides

Mikuchan.7261:

phys.7689:

Mikuchan.7261:

Summary / TL;DR
Create cloth gathering nodes
This could balance cloth price.
Make insignias craftable with all 3 armor crafting materials.
This could balance the material prices in relationship with eachother.

Click here to see long arguments for why and how

hide spoiler

Cut out to save characters, read original post at: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Why-is-silk-going-up-in-price/page/11#post4850840

cloth crafters would likely still be screwed, and leather would likely still be cheap. Youd also increase the minimum time to craft. (though not as much as now definately)
let insignias be craftable by any armor proffession using any material, and you solve the issue similarly, cloth will likely still be more expensive, but not as drastically. leather will likely rise in value. Time to craft will be similar for each, and overall more adjustable.

I don’t see what you mean with that minimum crafting time would increase?
Like.. I literally don’t understand what you mean.

Cloth crafters would indeed be screwed initially, but over time the prices will balance out. And you have the option to get another crafting discipline in order to get the insignias with those materials instead. So a cloth crafter could spend some 50-100 gold to level leathercrafting up enough to make elonian leather and then use those to make the insignias, thus creating demand for leather.

However as you say, things will be more easily adjustable.
It does sound like you agree with the idea?

maddoctor.2738:

Changing the non-armor recipes that require Damask could also help in reducing demand. I’m talking about Wings of Dwayna, a very popular back skin that requires 15 Bolts of Damask to make. 15 Bolts of Damask a very very large amount that pushes the value of cloth materials way up, adding recipes for Wings of Dwayna (and the Grenth recipe too) that use Leather and/or Metal could easily help with Demand.

I also think more item made with recipes using Leather can really help push Leather prices higher. Like a new skin recipe that requires 25 pieces of Elonian Leather to make. Imagine allowing people to craft the Black Wings with Elonian Leather

Wings of Dwayna and the Grenth recipe too can be crafted by a leatherworker with Elonian Leather instead of Damask and since it’s a backpiece it doesn’t have a weight class, so any class can equip it.
This is also how I argue that insignias should work in my post, read above.
If you can use any material for the insignias, just like with the backpieces, the imbalance between the demand for Damask, Elonian leather and Deldrimor steel is removed and the prices will balance over time.

Edit: Similarly, an armorsmith can craft the backpieces with deldrimor steel.

hmm have to look at the recipes again, may not make much difference time lock wise.

he reason why I wrote “nodes” in quotation marks is because they don’t need to be actual gathering nodes like trees or metal veins. They can also be living or corpses of animals for example. Wool would be a bit hard to grow due to it’s nature, so a wool gathering node could be a (wild) sheep. To gather it, you walk up to it and interact with it or it’s corpse, holding the appropriate tool. Once interacted with, that sheep, respawned or not, has it’s wool cut for an appropriate time compared to other gathering nodes. Or alternatively there is a chance to get wool from it for each time it respawns. Or yet alternatively, the sheep is an invulnurable NPC.

Yeah, ideally just make “Wool sheep” as green untargetable NPCs that wander within a very tight area (or just stand around) and you can walk up and harvest them like any mining node, converting them from fuzzy to shorn. The other stuff is easy, linen and jute are plants, silk and gossamer come from spiders/worms, and you could have a “Mulberry Bush” or “Thorn bush” that is covered with their cobwebs (until you get there, of course). ESO already has harvestable cloth nodes.

Leather would still have to be animal harvested, and I don’t see supply being any issue atm, but if it ever did they could just have special instanced animals that only spawn on the same schedules that resources do, and are guaranteed to produce leather when killed (which would be relatively effortless).

There’s absolutely no reason that it should still take 100 bolts of silk to make a single damask now that silk isn’t worth 3c. It was a change to get rid of all the silk and to make silk worth something, so why should it stay now that silk is 4x the price of t5 logs/ore?

Yeah, which was a dumb design choice in the first place. If there is a glut of a mat on the market, the solution is not to make a permanent change that makes it much more in demand (or at least not by so much), the solution to a glut is to have a short term burnoff, like those Zephyr merchants that trade for mats. Basically, you want to do long term changes with the idea that there is zero supply, and what those changes would do to supply going forward, and do short term changes based on managing the existing supply.

It’s currently a BiS item for something that doesn’t substantially help you unless you do fractals and this is including the stats from infusions.

Yes, the game’s design means that they aren’t absolutely essential to most players, but they are still BiS, and it’s not for you to say whether other players should feel compelled to have them or not. Accept that they do, and work on designing around that fact. Trying to argue that they don’t really need it will accomplish nothing.

heavy wouldnt be able to take advantage of leather, but it would have the most direct, and cheapest means time wise of getting an insignia. And since leather will probably go up in value anyhow, metal may end up being similarly valued to leather.

Besides which, while a single craft Armorer could not make Insignia using leather, if he had a leatherworking alt, or could buy them off the TP, he could still benefit from making his metal armor using cheaper leather-made sigs.

John Smith.4610:

Let me ask a question, if you could farm silk specifically, but slowly, so the price remained what it currently is or higher, would that be better or worse?

Worse. It would reward grinders, who would have another way to farm, while punishing casual players (prices would remain at the current ones or higher).

ArenaNet rewards grind way too much. Today grinders can have a steady supply of silk by buying it from the TP after farming gold. There isn’t much of a point in introducing a silk farm.

Test.8734:

John Smith.4610:

Let me ask a question, if you could farm silk specifically, but slowly, so the price remained what it currently is or higher, would that be better or worse?

Worse. It would reward grinders, who would have another way to farm, while punishing casual players (prices would remain at the current ones or higher).

ArenaNet rewards grind way too much. Today grinders can have a steady supply of silk by buying it from the TP after farming gold. There isn’t much of a point in introducing a silk farm.

grinders dont buy silk, they sell it to you.

the best way to reduce the grind would be to lower the recipe costs, but i dont think they wil do that unless they have another cloth destroying mechanic in place

I still don’t really think that the issue lies with that it takes 300 silk instead of 200 to craft damask.
Even if it took 200 silk instead of 300, the damask would still be in much more demand than the deldrimor steel or elonian leather.
And even reducing the number of silk needed won’t reduce the price very much.

Current price as I’m writing:
Silk scrap 250 copper per piece (2 silver, 50 copper).
Linen scrap 444 copper
Cotton scrap 345 copper
Wool scrap 263 copper
Ecto 3304 copper
Gossamer thread 8 copper

Required materials
silk 200/300
linen 40
cotton 20
wool 40
ecto 1
gossamer thread 25

Counting with 300 silk:
113684 copper total, or 11g, 36s, 84c
Counting with 200 silk, it’s instead
88684 copper total, or 8g, 86s, 84c

Sure, it’s 2g 50s less, but it’s nowhere near the prices to craft deldrimor steel or elonian leather.
Also, just lowering the required number of silk for creating damask will instantly drop the price, yes. However, this may potentially only result in an increased demand since the prices drop and people suddenly want to craft light (and others, but mainly light because 36 damask…) ascended armor because of the lowered price, which then just raises the price back up again since the underlaying problem has not been fixed, which is the imbalance between the materials requirements.

If you, with reference to my post earlier, link click here, make it possible to create the insignias for ascended armor with all 3 materials, depending on which crafting discipline you use, then you suddenly free up 18 bolts of damask from the ascended armor that can instead be interchanged with deldrimor steel or elonian leather.

The current ascended material requirements per armor set are:
Heavy: 25 damask, 16 deldrimor steel
Medium: 24 damask, 18 elonian leather
Light: 36 damask, 6 elonian leather

So making my change would mean that each armor require:
Insignias: a choice of 18 damask, deldrimor steel or elonian leather
Heavy: 7 damask, 16 deldrimor steel
Medium: 6 damask, 18 elonian leather
Light: 18 damask, 6 elonian leather

Because you can choose those 18 materials for the insignias freely, people will likely choose the cheapest one. Currently elonian leather. This decreases the demand for damask immensely and it increases the demand of elonian leather.
If you choose elonian leather as your insignias, that means that for any of the 3 armor sets, you will require more elonian leather than damask, even for light armor with 18 damask and 24 elonian leather. If you would use deldrimor steel for light armor, you’d have as much deldrimor steel as damask, but also 6 elonian leather. So you still require less damask than the total of the other materials.
In turn, this means that regardless what armor set you craft, the demand will be shifted towards the cheapest material and thus the market will, with time, self-balance.
That will in turn mean that it will, with time, cost about as much to outfit a warrior as it will cost to outfit a ranger or a mesmer in terms of ascended armor.

Decreased demand for damask means decreased demand for silk, which means cheaper silk and 300 vs 200 silk becomes more irrelevant the cheaper it gets.

Fair and simple implementation that would make players happy while still technically maintaining the same level of difficulty, no?

Sure, it’s 2g 50s less, but it’s nowhere near the prices to craft deldrimor steel or elonian leather.
Also, just lowering the required number of silk for creating damask will instantly drop the price, yes. However, this may potentially only result in an increased demand since the prices drop and people suddenly want to craft light (and others, but mainly light because 36 damask…) ascended armor because of the lowered price, which then just raises the price back up again since the underlaying problem has not been fixed, which is the imbalance between the materials requirements.

There might be a short term demand spike from people who once found cloth Ascended unattainable, sure, but that would peter off after a month or less. The long term trend would be the same as anything else, every player would want to craft at least one set of Ascended armor for their character, so demand = number of level 80 [Mes/Nec/Ele] that doesn’t already have one, and that number will fall faster than it will rise (even if they have healthy player growth, once all existing players have one, there would only be a few new level 80 casters per week).

I do favor “choose your own insignia mats” as a partial solution though.

Each ascended insignia needs 3 silk spool infused with spirit energy, but each of them need 100 of t5 material, as opposed to 50 on the other materials. Why the prejudice on light armored characters anet? Is there favoritism (or hatred) of certain classes in the dev team? Are you trying to replicate the value of silk during the middle ages in real life? I just don’t get it. In the first place, why ——100—— t5 materials to make a Spool of Silk Weaving Thread? Do you lack foresight anet? Yeah t5 materials might have been abundant a year ago when you made a database query. Oh I’ll just find out what materials are abundant NOW, deedubeedumdum, there, oh it’s silk. Gotta purge them excess silk. I know, make each Spool of Silk Weaving Thread require 1000000000000 silk, yupyup, that solves the over abundance. And for the sake of common sense, this is ascended materials we are talking about. Why are you still following the recipe for exotics to make ascended armor. For exotic armors, you get a chance to get gossamer when salvaging high level items. Do we have a chance to get ascended materials when salvaging high level items? Come on, don’t you get it? I know there is a chance to get silk instead of gossamer, but really, my bank’s overflowing with gossamer already, and you have a 6/25 chance (it’s not accurate I know) to get a light armor piece when ever you get a monster drop or open a bag. Wait a sec, does salvaging medium and heavy armor give you a chance to get back the mats used to make the insignia, or do you just get back metal and leather? Maybe that’s a solution, make silk (and other cloth materials) salvageable on ALL armor classes, since cloth materials are used on them as well.

Maybe anet, when you think of something, when it seemed ingenious to yourself or to your buddy, let it sleep over first. Then take some breakfast, then think about your ingenious decision. Relax in your toilet, then think about your ingenious decision. Play the game, then think about your ingenious decision again. When you drive to work, think about your ingenious decision. When you are planning/programming the game at your office, think about your previous ingenious decision while making new ingenious decisions. Take a coffee break, and still think about your ingenious decision. Maybe then you would finally realize that you should make some kittening simulations and testing first, before releasing your ingenious decisions upon the citizens of Tyria.

John Smith.4610:

Let me ask a question, if you could farm silk specifically, but slowly, so the price remained what it currently is or higher, would that be better or worse?

I think it would certainly be a step towards making this a more bearable resource, depending on how you have in mind. It’d be nice if you could wake up one morning and say: OK! getting 300 silk scraps.

I generally farm Flame Legion not too far from CoF to get their bags and salvages (both good for Silk, and the salvages give some linen) but it still takes -hours- as it is mostly dependent on RNG. The most displeasing about this to me, is that I’m on the same sub-region of a map for hours on end, I have more fun farming mithril because I’m running around, killing a variety of foes (or outrunning them), it’s a less static activity in that sense. I see more of the map, need to stay on my toes a bit more as opposed to tab-1 farming of evil kitty upon evil kitty….

Farming specifically for silk -is- possible, the currently available methods are just not very engaging, and not something most people look into for that same reason.

Zenguy.6421:

John Smith.4610:

Sounds to me like two independent issues being discussed.
1. Aggregate price for silk and market velocity
2. Farming for individual mats is hard

John,
You’ve twice asserted that there are two issues being discussed here.

Is there a reason why your list doesn’t include the issue that *it takes twice as much silk as the other Tier 5 mats to make ascended materials, even though this issue is a) clearly being discussed here and b) at the heart of the changes in the silk price?

This question is continuously avoided, even though it has been asked repeatedly. IMO, they know they screwed the pooch on this, but refuse to take ownership.

schneiw.4896:

Zenguy.6421:

John Smith.4610:

Sounds to me like two independent issues being discussed.
1. Aggregate price for silk and market velocity
2. Farming for individual mats is hard

John,
You’ve twice asserted that there are two issues being discussed here.

Is there a reason why your list doesn’t include the issue that *it takes twice as much silk as the other Tier 5 mats to make ascended materials, even though this issue is a) clearly being discussed here and b) at the heart of the changes in the silk price?

This question is continuously avoided, even though it has been asked repeatedly. IMO, they know they screwed the pooch on this, but refuse to take ownership.

From October through January the price of silk went down and its supply up. During all that time, it was 300 scraps for 1 bolt of damask. So it cant really be at the heart of the changes of silk going back up now.

Wanze.8410:

schneiw.4896:

Zenguy.6421:

John Smith.4610:

Sounds to me like two independent issues being discussed.
1. Aggregate price for silk and market velocity
2. Farming for individual mats is hard

John,
You’ve twice asserted that there are two issues being discussed here.

Is there a reason why your list doesn’t include the issue that *it takes twice as much silk as the other Tier 5 mats to make ascended materials, even though this issue is a) clearly being discussed here and b) at the heart of the changes in the silk price?

This question is continuously avoided, even though it has been asked repeatedly. IMO, they know they screwed the pooch on this, but refuse to take ownership.

From October through January the price of silk went down and its supply up. During all that time, it was 300 scraps for 1 bolt of damask. So it cant really be at the heart of the changes of silk going back up now.

No it’s entirely a rate of supply issue. During Wintersday there was a new, easily obtainable source of supply for everyone. The actual drop rate may have been relatively low but it was made up in shear volume of the pre-salvage items that could produce it. As soon as that was over, the rate of supply dropped below the rate of consumption again and the price rebounds.

The TP has a kind of “memory”. Players list items for sale and don’t necessarily remove them and list at a lower price if they don’t sell in a reasonable time frame. At those items at their price are just waiting for the supply to be drawn back down until they are exposed as the “low” sell price.

Behellagh.1468:

Wanze.8410:

schneiw.4896:

Zenguy.6421:

John Smith.4610:

Sounds to me like two independent issues being discussed.
1. Aggregate price for silk and market velocity
2. Farming for individual mats is hard

John,
You’ve twice asserted that there are two issues being discussed here.

Is there a reason why your list doesn’t include the issue that *it takes twice as much silk as the other Tier 5 mats to make ascended materials, even though this issue is a) clearly being discussed here and b) at the heart of the changes in the silk price?

This question is continuously avoided, even though it has been asked repeatedly. IMO, they know they screwed the pooch on this, but refuse to take ownership.

From October through January the price of silk went down and its supply up. During all that time, it was 300 scraps for 1 bolt of damask. So it cant really be at the heart of the changes of silk going back up now.

No it’s entirely a rate of supply issue. During Wintersday there was a new, easily obtainable source of supply for everyone. The actual drop rate may have been relatively low but it was made up in shear volume of the pre-salvage items that could produce it. As soon as that was over, the rate of supply dropped below the rate of consumption again and the price rebounds.

The TP has a kind of “memory”. Players list items for sale and don’t necessarily remove them and list at a lower price if they don’t sell in a reasonable time frame. At those items at their price are just waiting for the supply to be drawn back down until they are exposed as the “low” sell price.

Exactly, so all we need to do, is wait for the next silk happy festival to come around.
This worked already to bring the price down and supply up, without people having to go “grind” silk. They just play the content.

Wanze.8410:

Behellagh.1468:

Wanze.8410:

schneiw.4896:

Zenguy.6421:

John Smith.4610:

Sounds to me like two independent issues being discussed.
1. Aggregate price for silk and market velocity
2. Farming for individual mats is hard

John,
You’ve twice asserted that there are two issues being discussed here.

Is there a reason why your list doesn’t include the issue that *it takes twice as much silk as the other Tier 5 mats to make ascended materials, even though this issue is a) clearly being discussed here and b) at the heart of the changes in the silk price?

This question is continuously avoided, even though it has been asked repeatedly. IMO, they know they screwed the pooch on this, but refuse to take ownership.

From October through January the price of silk went down and its supply up. During all that time, it was 300 scraps for 1 bolt of damask. So it cant really be at the heart of the changes of silk going back up now.

No it’s entirely a rate of supply issue. During Wintersday there was a new, easily obtainable source of supply for everyone. The actual drop rate may have been relatively low but it was made up in shear volume of the pre-salvage items that could produce it. As soon as that was over, the rate of supply dropped below the rate of consumption again and the price rebounds.

The TP has a kind of “memory”. Players list items for sale and don’t necessarily remove them and list at a lower price if they don’t sell in a reasonable time frame. At those items at their price are just waiting for the supply to be drawn back down until they are exposed as the “low” sell price.

Exactly, so all we need to do, is wait for the next silk happy festival to come around.
This worked already to bring the price down and supply up, without people having to go “grind” silk. They just play the content.

So people that want to make Ascended Armors (especially light, but applies to all) should wait for festivals to craft them only?

maddoctor.2738:

Wanze.8410:

Behellagh.1468:

Wanze.8410:

schneiw.4896:

Zenguy.6421:

John Smith.4610:

Sounds to me like two independent issues being discussed.
1. Aggregate price for silk and market velocity
2. Farming for individual mats is hard

John,
You’ve twice asserted that there are two issues being discussed here.

Is there a reason why your list doesn’t include the issue that *it takes twice as much silk as the other Tier 5 mats to make ascended materials, even though this issue is a) clearly being discussed here and b) at the heart of the changes in the silk price?

This question is continuously avoided, even though it has been asked repeatedly. IMO, they know they screwed the pooch on this, but refuse to take ownership.

From October through January the price of silk went down and its supply up. During all that time, it was 300 scraps for 1 bolt of damask. So it cant really be at the heart of the changes of silk going back up now.

No it’s entirely a rate of supply issue. During Wintersday there was a new, easily obtainable source of supply for everyone. The actual drop rate may have been relatively low but it was made up in shear volume of the pre-salvage items that could produce it. As soon as that was over, the rate of supply dropped below the rate of consumption again and the price rebounds.

The TP has a kind of “memory”. Players list items for sale and don’t necessarily remove them and list at a lower price if they don’t sell in a reasonable time frame. At those items at their price are just waiting for the supply to be drawn back down until they are exposed as the “low” sell price.

Exactly, so all we need to do, is wait for the next silk happy festival to come around.
This worked already to bring the price down and supply up, without people having to go “grind” silk. They just play the content.

So people that want to make Ascended Armors (especially light, but applies to all) should wait for festivals to craft them only?

No, they can craft now, if they want.
People also crafted ascended last year, when silk was at 3.5s
They dont expect a refund now, just because the price is down.

I craft and sell when the price is up because there is more profit to be made. I buy when the price is down and use that cheap stuff to make my ascended.

Chista.4750:

John Smith.4610:

Let me ask a question, if you could farm silk specifically, but slowly, so the price remained what it currently is or higher, would that be better or worse?

I think it would certainly be a step towards making this a more bearable resource, depending on how you have in mind. It’d be nice if you could wake up one morning and say: OK! getting 300 silk scraps.

I generally farm Flame Legion not too far from CoF to get their bags and salvages (both good for Silk, and the salvages give some linen) but it still takes -hours- as it is mostly dependent on RNG. The most displeasing about this to me, is that I’m on the same sub-region of a map for hours on end, I have more fun farming mithril because I’m running around, killing a variety of foes (or outrunning them), it’s a less static activity in that sense. I see more of the map, need to stay on my toes a bit more as opposed to tab-1 farming of evil kitty upon evil kitty….

Farming specifically for silk -is- possible, the currently available methods are just not very engaging, and not something most people look into for that same reason.

Try running SW instead. If you can get into a map (use the LFG) that is doing Breach, then VW and Hidden Depths, you can easily get 30+ Heirloom Seed pouches, Bandit coin purses, and bags of gear. Salavage everything. Use excess tokens for Sandy Bags of gear. (Those also contain Exotics from time to time. I’ve gotten more exotics from those bags, then the champ bags…). On average I can get ~100+ scraps of silk from doing 2 runs back to back using the LFG. (1.5 hours or so) Far more than I ever could farming the Flame Legion.

pdavis.8031:

Chista.4750:

John Smith.4610:

Let me ask a question, if you could farm silk specifically, but slowly, so the price remained what it currently is or higher, would that be better or worse?

I think it would certainly be a step towards making this a more bearable resource, depending on how you have in mind. It’d be nice if you could wake up one morning and say: OK! getting 300 silk scraps.

I generally farm Flame Legion not too far from CoF to get their bags and salvages (both good for Silk, and the salvages give some linen) but it still takes -hours- as it is mostly dependent on RNG. The most displeasing about this to me, is that I’m on the same sub-region of a map for hours on end, I have more fun farming mithril because I’m running around, killing a variety of foes (or outrunning them), it’s a less static activity in that sense. I see more of the map, need to stay on my toes a bit more as opposed to tab-1 farming of evil kitty upon evil kitty….

Farming specifically for silk -is- possible, the currently available methods are just not very engaging, and not something most people look into for that same reason.

Try running SW instead. If you can get into a map (use the LFG) that is doing Breach, then VW and Hidden Depths, you can easily get 30+ Heirloom Seed pouches, Bandit coin purses, and bags of gear. Salavage everything. Use excess tokens for Sandy Bags of gear. (Those also contain Exotics from time to time. I’ve gotten more exotics from those bags, then the champ bags…). On average I can get ~100+ scraps of silk from doing 2 runs back to back using the LFG. (1.5 hours or so) Far more than I ever could farming the Flame Legion.

I only salvage Cloth armor from my SW bags. Metal and Leather armors get forged until they are Cloth armor.

mtpelion:
Not a terrible idea…
I tried doing that, but it took up so much space and was too much effort for my taste. So I salavage everything at the very least to get the luck. But that might be a better way to go if you are looking for cloth. I’ll have to revisit that.

pdavis.8031:

mtpelion:
Not a terrible idea…
I tried doing that, but it took up so much space and was too much effort for my taste. So I salavage everything at the very least to get the luck. But that might be a better way to go if you are looking for cloth. I’ll have to revisit that.

As long as you wait until you are at the forge to open the bags it isn’t too bad. Open a few, forge the leather/metal, salvage the cloth, repeat. It takes me 5-10 minutes at the end of the day to clear it all out.

mtpelion.4562:

pdavis.8031:

mtpelion:
Not a terrible idea…
I tried doing that, but it took up so much space and was too much effort for my taste. So I salavage everything at the very least to get the luck. But that might be a better way to go if you are looking for cloth. I’ll have to revisit that.

As long as you wait until you are at the forge to open the bags it isn’t too bad. Open a few, forge the leather/metal, salvage the cloth, repeat. It takes me 5-10 minutes at the end of the day to clear it all out.

True, but I like the extra MF from being is SW when opening the bags. +50% from completeing VW and +30% from the event buffs (can’t remember what it’s called).

Wanze.8410:

schneiw.4896:

Zenguy.6421:

John Smith.4610:

Sounds to me like two independent issues being discussed.
1. Aggregate price for silk and market velocity
2. Farming for individual mats is hard

John,
You’ve twice asserted that there are two issues being discussed here.

Is there a reason why your list doesn’t include the issue that *it takes twice as much silk as the other Tier 5 mats to make ascended materials, even though this issue is a) clearly being discussed here and b) at the heart of the changes in the silk price?

This question is continuously avoided, even though it has been asked repeatedly. IMO, they know they screwed the pooch on this, but refuse to take ownership.

From October through January the price of silk went down and its supply up. During all that time, it was 300 scraps for 1 bolt of damask. So it cant really be at the heart of the changes of silk going back up now.

i think the poster is saying ascended is at the heart of the value/cost of silk in general.

He is basically saying, its hard to divorce these issues, disparity in effort for vertical progression and price of silk, because they are connected.

The main reason that this disparity exists is to make silk valuable. Thats it.

I dont think its a good idea to introduce disparity into vertical progression, just to give one item more value when you loot it.

Farming specifically for silk -is- possible, the currently available methods are just not very engaging, and not something most people look into for that same reason.

Well, remember, there’s farming and then there’s farming. With resources like metal and wood, you can actually harvest it, guaranteed 3+ units per node you see, maps with specific node locations, boom boom boom, resources. With things like silk, there’s always RNG. Yes, there are places you can go where you are very likely to get large amounts of silk over a given period of time, as large amounts of trash mobs spawn that have a solid chance of dropping silk, but it’s still pretty variable and takes more effort (not that effort is necessarily a bad thing, but relative effort needed should always be considered).

From October through January the price of silk went down and its supply up. During all that time, it was 300 scraps for 1 bolt of damask. So it cant really be at the heart of the changes of silk going back up now.

And nobody is saying that it is. The point people is making is that it’s a major factor in the overall natural level of the silk market. Obviously they could leave that aspect alone and still fix the problem by tweaking other elements, but people are pointing this out as a clear point of imbalance that could perhaps be leveled out to make the overall balance process easier. I mean, what could you do to alter silk prices?

• reduce/raise the number of scraps needed for a bolt

• reduce/raise the number of bolts needed for Damask

• reduce/raise the number of bolts needed for insignia

• reduce/raise the number of bolts needed for standard items (minimal impact here)

• reduce/raise the number of Damask needed for Ascended armors

• add/remove items that require silk to craft

• Allow people to use metal or leather for Insignia.

• reduce/raise the amount of silk that drops onto current sources

• reduce/raise the variety of creatures that drop silk in significant quantities

• provide some entirely new harvesting method, like Mulberry Bushes.

• add NPC vendors that will accept silk in exchange for valued items.

Note of course that most of these would apply to any resource. They could make any of these changes in any combination they felt appropriate towards making silk more or less expensive. The easier they make it for players to generate silk, or the less useful they make having silk, the lower the price would get, and the more annoying they make it to generate silk or the more desirable they make silk products, the higher the price will get.

Exactly, so all we need to do, is wait for the next silk happy festival to come around.
This worked already to bring the price down and supply up, without people having to go “grind” silk. They just play the content.

That just creates an unhealthy cycle of bubbles. It works great for players that “play” the markets, because they can stay on top of these trends, horde mats when they have a bubble low, and sell them off when there are bubble highs, but it works terribly for the average player, who pays no attention to these trends, and just wants to make something out of silk during a bubble high, or just wants to sell off the silk he just collected during the middle of a bubble low.

The ideal goal is for these bubbles to be as minimal as possible, that when they put a bubble source in the game that raises supply, they also add a short-term dump for the resource that reduces supply/increases demand.

I only salvage Cloth armor from my SW bags. Metal and Leather armors get forged until they are Cloth armor.

Is that really efficient? I salvage cloth and just vendor metal/leather. The odds of getting more silk than the vendor value of 4+greens seems risky to me.

Ohoni.6057:

Farming specifically for silk -is- possible, the currently available methods are just not very engaging, and not something most people look into for that same reason.

Well, remember, there’s farming and then there’s farming. With resources like metal and wood, you can actually harvest it, guaranteed 9+ units per node you see, maps with specific node locations, boom boom boom, resources. With things like silk, there’s always RNG. Yes, there are places you can go where you are very likely to get large amounts of silk over a given period of time, as large amounts of trash mobs spawn that have a solid chance of dropping silk, but it’s still pretty variable and takes more effort (not that effort is necessarily a bad thing, but relative effort needed should always be considered).

From October through January the price of silk went down and its supply up. During all that time, it was 300 scraps for 1 bolt of damask. So it cant really be at the heart of the changes of silk going back up now.

And nobody is saying that it is. The point people is making is that it’s a major factor in the overall natural level of the silk market. Obviously they could leave that aspect alone and still fix the problem by tweaking other elements, but people are pointing this out as a clear point of imbalance that could perhaps be leveled out to make the overall balance process easier. I mean, what could you do to alter silk prices?

• reduce/raise the number of scraps needed for a bolt

• reduce/raise the number of bolts needed for Damask

• reduce/raise the number of bolts needed for insignia

• reduce/raise the number of bolts needed for standard items (minimal impact here)

• reduce/raise the number of Damask needed for Ascended armors

• add/remove items that require silk to craft

• Allow people to use metal or leather for Insignia.

• reduce/raise the amount of silk that drops onto current sources

• reduce/raise the variety of creatures that drop silk in significant quantities

• provide some entirely new harvesting method, like Mulberry Bushes.

• add NPC vendors that will accept silk in exchange for valued items.

Note of course that most of these would apply to any resource. They could make any of these changes in any combination they felt appropriate towards making silk more or less expensive. The easier they make it for players to generate silk, or the less useful they make having silk, the lower the price would get, and the more annoying they make it to generate silk or the more desirable they make silk products, the higher the price will get.

Exactly, so all we need to do, is wait for the next silk happy festival to come around.
This worked already to bring the price down and supply up, without people having to go “grind” silk. They just play the content.

That just creates an unhealthy cycle of bubbles. It works great for players that “play” the markets, because they can stay on top of these trends, horde mats when they have a bubble low, and sell them off when there are bubble highs, but it works terribly for the average player, who pays no attention to these trends, and just wants to make something out of silk during a bubble high, or just wants to sell off the silk he just collected during the middle of a bubble low.

The ideal goal is for these bubbles to be as minimal as possible, that when they put a bubble source in the game that raises supply, they also add a short-term dump for the resource that reduces supply/increases demand.

I only salvage Cloth armor from my SW bags. Metal and Leather armors get forged until they are Cloth armor.

Is that really efficient? I salvage cloth and just vendor metal/leather. The odds of getting more silk than the vendor value of 4+greens seems risky to me.

9 units per node isn’t that only for rich veins?

Ohoni.6057:

I only salvage Cloth armor from my SW bags. Metal and Leather armors get forged until they are Cloth armor.

Is that really efficient? I salvage cloth and just vendor metal/leather. The odds of getting more silk than the vendor value of 4+greens seems risky to me.

yes. it also good for the rares that come.

Ohoni.6057:

Is that really efficient? I salvage cloth and just vendor metal/leather. The odds of getting more silk than the vendor value of 4+greens seems risky to me.

It is less profitable than selling on the TP and more profitable than selling to a vendor.

In terms of efficiency, it is less efficient than vendoring but more efficient than selling on the TP.

It finds a nice middle ground in terms of efficiency versus profitability, with the added bonus of a 20% chance at promotion into rare for the Ectoplasm.

Ohoni.6057:

From October through January the price of silk went down and its supply up. During all that time, it was 300 scraps for 1 bolt of damask. So it cant really be at the heart of the changes of silk going back up now.

And nobody is saying that it is.

If you would learn how to quote, you would have noticed that that was exactly what was said.

Zenguy.6421:

Is there a reason why your list doesn’t include the issue that *it takes twice as much silk as the other Tier 5 mats to make ascended materials, even though this issue is a) clearly being discussed here and b) at the heart of the changes in the silk price?

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

schneiw.4896:

Zenguy.6421:

John Smith.4610:

Sounds to me like two independent issues being discussed.
1. Aggregate price for silk and market velocity
2. Farming for individual mats is hard

John,
You’ve twice asserted that there are two issues being discussed here.

Is there a reason why your list doesn’t include the issue that *it takes twice as much silk as the other Tier 5 mats to make ascended materials, even though this issue is a) clearly being discussed here and b) at the heart of the changes in the silk price?

This question is continuously avoided, even though it has been asked repeatedly. IMO, they know they screwed the pooch on this, but refuse to take ownership.

From October through January the price of silk went down and its supply up. During all that time, it was 300 scraps for 1 bolt of damask. So it cant really be at the heart of the changes of silk going back up now.

i think the poster is saying ascended is at the heart of the value/cost of silk in general.

He is basically saying, its hard to divorce these issues, disparity in effort for vertical progression and price of silk, because they are connected.

The main reason that this disparity exists is to make silk valuable. Thats it.

I dont think its a good idea to introduce disparity into vertical progression, just to give one item more value when you loot it.

Except that ascended armor crafting followed the same pattern as all other quality levels, just with a higher quantity. On the surface the only fault it doubling the amount of refined T5 for light vs refined T5 for medium or heavy. Underneath the problem, as it is at all qualities, you need twice as much cloth with light as oppose to medium and heavy as well as cloth is needed at all weights where it isn’t reciprocal with leather and metal. But it wasn’t a problem until ascended armor came out.

You only needed 18 silk scraps for a rare chest piece. You need 2400 silk scraps for an ascended chest piece. So we went from 3 for the insignia, 3 for the lining and 12 for the panel (1:1:4 ratio) to 900 for the insignia, 300 for the lining and 1200 for the panel (3:1:4 ratio). And here’s another “problem”. The lining and panel are 100x the rare but the insignia, which is needed on all armor weights, is 300x the rare. Hmmm, didn’t realize that until now. Interesting.

So we have altering the bolt recipe from 2 to 3 scraps. Not a problem since the T5 leather which was also under a glut needs 3 for the refined version. Then we have the boost in the ascended mat recipe from 50 to 100. That seems a bit excessive. Lastly we have the insignia mat requirement scaled by 300 vs 100 times for panels and linings.

It may be the insignia’s overscaling that’s the root of the demand problem. But exotic was 10/2/8 T6 cloth scraps for insignia/panel/insignia (5:1:4 ratio) so maybe we should feel fortunate that they didn’t make insignia need 1500 silk.

Behellagh.1468:

phys.7689:

Wanze.8410:

schneiw.4896:

Zenguy.6421:

John Smith.4610:

Sounds to me like two independent issues being discussed.
1. Aggregate price for silk and market velocity
2. Farming for individual mats is hard

John,
You’ve twice asserted that there are two issues being discussed here.

Is there a reason why your list doesn’t include the issue that *it takes twice as much silk as the other Tier 5 mats to make ascended materials, even though this issue is a) clearly being discussed here and b) at the heart of the changes in the silk price?

This question is continuously avoided, even though it has been asked repeatedly. IMO, they know they screwed the pooch on this, but refuse to take ownership.

From October through January the price of silk went down and its supply up. During all that time, it was 300 scraps for 1 bolt of damask. So it cant really be at the heart of the changes of silk going back up now.

i think the poster is saying ascended is at the heart of the value/cost of silk in general.

He is basically saying, its hard to divorce these issues, disparity in effort for vertical progression and price of silk, because they are connected.

The main reason that this disparity exists is to make silk valuable. Thats it.

I dont think its a good idea to introduce disparity into vertical progression, just to give one item more value when you loot it.

Except that ascended armor crafting followed the same pattern as all other quality levels, just with a higher quantity. On the surface the only fault it doubling the amount of refined T5 for light vs refined T5 for medium or heavy. Underneath the problem, as it is at all qualities, you need twice as much cloth with light as oppose to medium and heavy as well as cloth is needed at all weights where it isn’t reciprocal with leather and metal. But it wasn’t a problem until ascended armor came out.

You only needed 18 silk scraps for a rare chest piece. You need 2400 silk scraps for an ascended chest piece. So we went from 3 for the insignia, 3 for the lining and 12 for the panel (1:1:4 ratio) to 900 for the insignia, 300 for the lining and 1200 for the panel (3:1:4 ratio). And here’s another “problem”. The lining and panel are 100x the rare but the insignia, which is needed on all armor weights, is 300x the rare. Hmmm, didn’t realize that until now. Interesting.

So we have altering the bolt recipe from 2 to 3 scraps. Not a problem since the T5 leather which was also under a glut needs 3 for the refined version. Then we have the boost in the ascended mat recipe from 50 to 100. That seems a bit excessive. Lastly we have the insignia mat requirement scaled by 300 vs 100 times for panels and linings.

It may be the insignia’s overscaling that’s the root of the demand problem. But exotic was 10/2/8 T6 cloth scraps for insignia/panel/insignia (5:1:4 ratio) so maybe we should feel fortunate that they didn’t make insignia need 1500 silk.

yes, and that basic formula they developed was always a bad one based on how silk/leather/mithril were supplied.
the thing that solved it was over production to the point that demand had little effect on the price. By getting that demand high enough to matter, it once again highlights the basic flaw in the crafting recipes, and style of supplying materials.

yeah when i looked at the ratios of basic materials, it became fairly obvious that silk in ascended recipes is way out of wack, even compared with the old recipes.

but more importantly, its extremely out of wack with the ratios of how silk and leather are supplied. which leads to leather costing nothing and silk being comparitively over valued.

with things as they stand, leather will always be worthless, and silk will always be overpriced, unless the supply far outstrips the demand.

good thing mithril has weapons being eaten in the forge

9 units per node isn’t that only for rich veins?

Sorry, yes. 3 units per node, 10 for rich. In any case, it’s a guaranteed minimum each time you interact with a node, and an RNG chance of some bonus. Nothing in the game currently gives silk every single time.

It is less profitable than selling on the TP and more profitable than selling to a vendor.

In terms of efficiency, it is less efficient than vendoring but more efficient than selling on the TP.

It finds a nice middle ground in terms of efficiency versus profitability, with the added bonus of a 20% chance at promotion into rare for the Ectoplasm.

Ok, fair enough, I might give that a shot when it’s convenient.

If you would learn how to quote, you would have noticed that that was exactly what was said.

It is at the heart of the change in silk price, the long term change from pennies to silvers. It is not responsible for the short term fluctuations.

Ohoni.6057:

It is at the heart of the change in silk price, the long term change from pennies to silvers. It is not responsible for the short term fluctuations.

The OP was talking about silk prices going back up again, stating in january, after they basically lost value for 4 months before.

The change to 3 scraps was made more than 15 months ago.
So it is possible for silk to loose value while needing 3 scraps for refinement.

Therefore, that change cant be at the heart of the recent price change.

The OP was talking about silk prices going back up again, stating in january, after they basically lost value for 4 months before.

The change to 3 scraps was made more than 15 months ago.
So it is possible for silk to loose value while needing 3 scraps for refinement.

Yes, but they are raising up to their natural value after being in a low bubble, and their natural value is mainly due to the increased requirement of them in ascended crafting. If they had no more value to ascended crafting than leather did, their natural level would be closer.

As I said in the post I made up page, there are all sorts of ways that you can raise or lower the cost of silk by changing different elements of how it is acquired or used. Some changes would have short term impact, like a temporary new source of supply, while others would have a more long term impact, like changes to the staple recipes that use it.. Please tell me that you understand this.

Wanze.8410:

Ohoni.6057:

It is at the heart of the change in silk price, the long term change from pennies to silvers. It is not responsible for the short term fluctuations.

The OP was talking about silk prices going back up again, stating in january, after they basically lost value for 4 months before.

The change to 3 scraps was made more than 15 months ago.
So it is possible for silk to loose value while needing 3 scraps for refinement.

Therefore, that change cant be at the heart of the recent price change.

It actually IS at the heart of silk going back up. People are once again competing over the diminished supply to make Damask.

dietzero.3514:

It actually IS at the heart of silk going back up. People are once again competing over the diminished supply to make Damask.

What’s wrong with a little competition? It’s completely healthy for a market to have some.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

dietzero.3514:

It actually IS at the heart of silk going back up. People are once again competing over the diminished supply to make Damask.

What’s wrong with a little competition? It’s completely healthy for a market to have some.

Thanks for the irrelevant post.

Zenguy.6421:

John Smith.4610:

Sounds to me like two independent issues being discussed.
1. Aggregate price for silk and market velocity
2. Farming for individual mats is hard

John,
You’ve twice asserted that there are two issues being discussed here.

Is there a reason why your list doesn’t include the issue that *it takes twice as much silk as the other Tier 5 mats to make ascended materials, even though this issue is a) clearly being discussed here and b) at the heart of the changes in the silk price?

He isn’t listing it because while a) is true, b) is not.

It’s an issue of optics. They could double the requirements of mithril, elder wood, and thick leather as well, but I suspect that would have only a minimal impact on ascended armor prices or silk prices.

There’s a case for symmetry in the crafting requirements from an optics perspective, but that’s rarely being made; the asymmetry is being used to legitimize the argument that the price of silk is too high, which is John’s point 1).

If you want to make the argument for 3), asymmetry in material requirements, argue for increasing the requirements of mithril ore, elder wood, and thick leather to 300 as well so it isn’t easy to dismiss as another flavor of argument 1).

dietzero.3514:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

dietzero.3514:

It actually IS at the heart of silk going back up. People are once again competing over the diminished supply to make Damask.

What’s wrong with a little competition? It’s completely healthy for a market to have some.

Thanks for the irrelevant post.

Not sure how it’s irrelevant, as this whole thread is basically an economic discussion.