Guild Wars 2

Scrambles.2604:

TooBz.3065:

Scrambles.2604:

TooBz.3065:

Scrambles.2604:

Sirendor.1394:

Scrambles.2604:

Sirendor.1394:

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

Berelious.3290:

I still find it ironic that people use WvW as an excuse against Ascended equipment. They cite statistics, percentages, and such, but fail to remember one important thing… and that is that the one on one encounters do not matter in a mode of play that’s designed around group siege warfare. In the end, in WvW, the server with the biggest zerg wins.

False. Havoc squads can impact the capabilities of a team severely. If your massive Zerg is in EBG then you can have enemies slipping in to take down your keeps very quickly in the borderlands. Taking supplies is always devastating towards holding fortifications, and a small group nabbing frogs or dredge can create a nuisance.

And even then. Why do you think commanders ask for might and boons before a big engagement? Because that extra DPS can devastate a Zerg. Knockback, zone control, and all these things can break up ranks and make a Zerg much less ineffective when you’re blasting your enemy targets allover the place preventing them from stacking in place.

Zerg play is very key, but do not underestimate the small things. Don’t underestimate damage percentages, don’t underestimate extra might, don’t underestimate the power of casting stealth, invisibility, portals, blinds, aegis, and all these things. They can change a battle completely. I for example tend to carry ballista prints so that when my server is capping SMC and the enemy is holding up, we can throw down ballistas at the entrances and use a guardian to keep them trapped inside while we block out their push from the outside and prevent any dead from coming inside. What about tapping keeps to prevent enemy reinforcements from returning as quickly? That’s highly key too.

Seconding this. I’m part of a havoc squad, rebel guild, ‘troll society’ and it’s extremely important to have the best gear available there. We often fight up to 3 times as many enemies (3v9 yesterday, finished them all).

What I think WvW needs:

• Option 1: Downscale ascended to exotic stats.
• Option 2: Let us play WvW-Only characters, that can have BiS gear and level 80 without cost.
• Option 3: Upscale exotic armour in WvW to ascended.
• Option 4: Delete PvE gear from WvW, allow players to get their PvE skins for free and unlimited from a database.

I feel like your organized havoc squad would still have the same effect on overall PPT if you were running around in all exotics. Organization, teamwork, and experience play a much more significant role than stats.

Against ignorant zerglings we would most probably… against other organised havoc squads that did have exotics… don’t think so.

no offense, but that sounds like a cop-out.

“dang! that other havoc group only beat us because they have ascended!!”

I’m sure if that situation actually happened, there would be a lot more significant things that determined the outcome of that fight. And more importantly, regardless who won the groupvgroup fight, the effect on PPT would still be non-existent or insignificant.

I disagree. It only sounds like a cop out because you think ascended gear doesn’t matter.

in the big picture of WvW, losing a group v group fight because a group had ascended gear isn’t going to matter when your server’s primetime zerg rolls through the borderland that evening.

So everyone keeps telling me. You will never convince me, I will never convince you. One of us in wrong. Meh.

Ascended gear is a pretty significant and desirable upgrade for an individual. But in WvW, an individual is insignificant and undesirable.

Ascended gear is significant on a micro scale but WvW functions on a macro scale, so the overall effects of people having ascended gear, when roughly the same % of the enemy server population has ascended gear, is insignificant.

Ok, true, to an extent, the game is won on a macro-scale. However, I enjoy and play the game on a micro-scale. I get much more pleasure out of my performance than I do out of my server’s performance. And more pleasure out of my server’s performance than I do out of how our ranking changes.

No one will ever convince me that 5-12% damage increase doesn’t matter at the micro-scale.

Edit: I originally included this but deleted it, but I think it helps make my point. The argument people make in support of Ascended gear can also be made about class balance. Based on the macro argument it shouldn’t matter if warriors are OP, because both sides have them. But people QQ all the time (and in the WvW forum) and nobody ever tries to make that argument. Why?

Scrambles.2604:

TooBz.3065:

Scrambles.2604:

TooBz.3065:

Scrambles.2604:

Sirendor.1394:

Scrambles.2604:

Sirendor.1394:

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

Berelious.3290:

I still find it ironic that people use WvW as an excuse against Ascended equipment. They cite statistics, percentages, and such, but fail to remember one important thing… and that is that the one on one encounters do not matter in a mode of play that’s designed around group siege warfare. In the end, in WvW, the server with the biggest zerg wins.

False. Havoc squads can impact the capabilities of a team severely. If your massive Zerg is in EBG then you can have enemies slipping in to take down your keeps very quickly in the borderlands. Taking supplies is always devastating towards holding fortifications, and a small group nabbing frogs or dredge can create a nuisance.

And even then. Why do you think commanders ask for might and boons before a big engagement? Because that extra DPS can devastate a Zerg. Knockback, zone control, and all these things can break up ranks and make a Zerg much less ineffective when you’re blasting your enemy targets allover the place preventing them from stacking in place.

Zerg play is very key, but do not underestimate the small things. Don’t underestimate damage percentages, don’t underestimate extra might, don’t underestimate the power of casting stealth, invisibility, portals, blinds, aegis, and all these things. They can change a battle completely. I for example tend to carry ballista prints so that when my server is capping SMC and the enemy is holding up, we can throw down ballistas at the entrances and use a guardian to keep them trapped inside while we block out their push from the outside and prevent any dead from coming inside. What about tapping keeps to prevent enemy reinforcements from returning as quickly? That’s highly key too.

Seconding this. I’m part of a havoc squad, rebel guild, ‘troll society’ and it’s extremely important to have the best gear available there. We often fight up to 3 times as many enemies (3v9 yesterday, finished them all).

What I think WvW needs:

• Option 1: Downscale ascended to exotic stats.
• Option 2: Let us play WvW-Only characters, that can have BiS gear and level 80 without cost.
• Option 3: Upscale exotic armour in WvW to ascended.
• Option 4: Delete PvE gear from WvW, allow players to get their PvE skins for free and unlimited from a database.

I feel like your organized havoc squad would still have the same effect on overall PPT if you were running around in all exotics. Organization, teamwork, and experience play a much more significant role than stats.

Against ignorant zerglings we would most probably… against other organised havoc squads that did have exotics… don’t think so.

no offense, but that sounds like a cop-out.

“dang! that other havoc group only beat us because they have ascended!!”

I’m sure if that situation actually happened, there would be a lot more significant things that determined the outcome of that fight. And more importantly, regardless who won the groupvgroup fight, the effect on PPT would still be non-existent or insignificant.

I disagree. It only sounds like a cop out because you think ascended gear doesn’t matter.

in the big picture of WvW, losing a group v group fight because a group had ascended gear isn’t going to matter when your server’s primetime zerg rolls through the borderland that evening.

So everyone keeps telling me. You will never convince me, I will never convince you. One of us in wrong. Meh.

But in WvW, an individual is insignificant and undesirable.

That’s where you and me disagree.

a t s e.9614:

I wonder why they merged my thread with this one … Like really? Wtf? I proposed some ways to fix it and pointed out the problems . Anyway I deleted it , devs won’t be able to see my post with all the other crap anyway . I wish there was a way to talk with the devs about some stuff .

Dev’s aren’t paying attention. We’re talking amongst ourselves. I don’t think your post should have been merged with this either.

Sirendor.1394:

Scrambles.2604:

TooBz.3065:

Scrambles.2604:

TooBz.3065:

Scrambles.2604:

Sirendor.1394:

Scrambles.2604:

Sirendor.1394:

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

Berelious.3290:

I still find it ironic that people use WvW as an excuse against Ascended equipment. They cite statistics, percentages, and such, but fail to remember one important thing… and that is that the one on one encounters do not matter in a mode of play that’s designed around group siege warfare. In the end, in WvW, the server with the biggest zerg wins.

False. Havoc squads can impact the capabilities of a team severely. If your massive Zerg is in EBG then you can have enemies slipping in to take down your keeps very quickly in the borderlands. Taking supplies is always devastating towards holding fortifications, and a small group nabbing frogs or dredge can create a nuisance.

And even then. Why do you think commanders ask for might and boons before a big engagement? Because that extra DPS can devastate a Zerg. Knockback, zone control, and all these things can break up ranks and make a Zerg much less ineffective when you’re blasting your enemy targets allover the place preventing them from stacking in place.

Zerg play is very key, but do not underestimate the small things. Don’t underestimate damage percentages, don’t underestimate extra might, don’t underestimate the power of casting stealth, invisibility, portals, blinds, aegis, and all these things. They can change a battle completely. I for example tend to carry ballista prints so that when my server is capping SMC and the enemy is holding up, we can throw down ballistas at the entrances and use a guardian to keep them trapped inside while we block out their push from the outside and prevent any dead from coming inside. What about tapping keeps to prevent enemy reinforcements from returning as quickly? That’s highly key too.

Seconding this. I’m part of a havoc squad, rebel guild, ‘troll society’ and it’s extremely important to have the best gear available there. We often fight up to 3 times as many enemies (3v9 yesterday, finished them all).

What I think WvW needs:

• Option 1: Downscale ascended to exotic stats.
• Option 2: Let us play WvW-Only characters, that can have BiS gear and level 80 without cost.
• Option 3: Upscale exotic armour in WvW to ascended.
• Option 4: Delete PvE gear from WvW, allow players to get their PvE skins for free and unlimited from a database.

I feel like your organized havoc squad would still have the same effect on overall PPT if you were running around in all exotics. Organization, teamwork, and experience play a much more significant role than stats.

Against ignorant zerglings we would most probably… against other organised havoc squads that did have exotics… don’t think so.

no offense, but that sounds like a cop-out.

“dang! that other havoc group only beat us because they have ascended!!”

I’m sure if that situation actually happened, there would be a lot more significant things that determined the outcome of that fight. And more importantly, regardless who won the groupvgroup fight, the effect on PPT would still be non-existent or insignificant.

I disagree. It only sounds like a cop out because you think ascended gear doesn’t matter.

in the big picture of WvW, losing a group v group fight because a group had ascended gear isn’t going to matter when your server’s primetime zerg rolls through the borderland that evening.

So everyone keeps telling me. You will never convince me, I will never convince you. One of us in wrong. Meh.

But in WvW, an individual is insignificant and undesirable.

That’s where you and me disagree.

The most significant effect an individual can have on the outcome of a WvW is simply by scouting and calling out enemy zerg movements, which has nothing to do with stats.

Stats are a significant factor, but least significant after—server population/coverage, effectiveness of the commander, class distribution, money invested in upgrades, seige placement….i hope you see where i’m going. Stats matter, but there are many many other things that happen in WvW that matter so much more that stat advantage pales to the point of insignificance.

TooBz.3065:

Ok, true, to an extent, the game is won on a macro-scale. However, I enjoy and play the game on a micro-scale. I get much more pleasure out of my performance than I do out of my server’s performance. And more pleasure out of my server’s performance than I do out of how our ranking changes.

No one will ever convince me that 5-12% damage increase doesn’t matter at the micro-scale.

Edit: I originally included this but deleted it, but I think it helps make my point. The argument people make in support of Ascended gear can also be made about class balance. Based on the macro argument it shouldn’t matter if warriors are OP, because both sides have them. But people QQ all the time (and in the WvW forum) and nobody ever tries to make that argument. Why?

I think skill will always win out over stats. Whenever i lose a 1v1 in WvW (which is almost NEVER because someone usually joins the fight from my side or the enemies) i can attribute it to something i did wrong, or something they did right, but not “they only won because they put out 10% more dmg.”

But again, this is meaningless in the overall scope of WvW. My 1v1 loss is a droplet of water in the 10 gallon bucket of WvW, but i think you understand this.

I’m not sure about your warrior comment, tbh. Everybody has access to ascended, but only warriors have access to warriors?

Scrambles.2604:

TooBz.3065:

Ok, true, to an extent, the game is won on a macro-scale. However, I enjoy and play the game on a micro-scale. I get much more pleasure out of my performance than I do out of my server’s performance. And more pleasure out of my server’s performance than I do out of how our ranking changes.

No one will ever convince me that 5-12% damage increase doesn’t matter at the micro-scale.

Edit: I originally included this but deleted it, but I think it helps make my point. The argument people make in support of Ascended gear can also be made about class balance. Based on the macro argument it shouldn’t matter if warriors are OP, because both sides have them. But people QQ all the time (and in the WvW forum) and nobody ever tries to make that argument. Why?

I think skill will always win out over stats. Whenever i lose a 1v1 in WvW (which is almost NEVER because someone usually joins the fight from my side or the enemies) i can attribute it to something i did wrong, or something they did right, but not “they only won because they put out 10% more dmg.”

But again, this is meaningless in the overall scope of WvW. My 1v1 loss is a droplet of water in the 10 gallon bucket of WvW, but i think you understand this.

I’m not sure about your warrior comment, tbh. Everybody has access to ascended, but only warriors have access to warriors?

But if individuals don’t matter, it only matter’s that each server has access to the same number of warrior. Anyway, sorry I engaged. I honestly am sick of this topic, in general. You win anyway.

TooBz.3065:

Scrambles.2604:

TooBz.3065:

Ok, true, to an extent, the game is won on a macro-scale. However, I enjoy and play the game on a micro-scale. I get much more pleasure out of my performance than I do out of my server’s performance. And more pleasure out of my server’s performance than I do out of how our ranking changes.

No one will ever convince me that 5-12% damage increase doesn’t matter at the micro-scale.

Edit: I originally included this but deleted it, but I think it helps make my point. The argument people make in support of Ascended gear can also be made about class balance. Based on the macro argument it shouldn’t matter if warriors are OP, because both sides have them. But people QQ all the time (and in the WvW forum) and nobody ever tries to make that argument. Why?

I think skill will always win out over stats. Whenever i lose a 1v1 in WvW (which is almost NEVER because someone usually joins the fight from my side or the enemies) i can attribute it to something i did wrong, or something they did right, but not “they only won because they put out 10% more dmg.”

But again, this is meaningless in the overall scope of WvW. My 1v1 loss is a droplet of water in the 10 gallon bucket of WvW, but i think you understand this.

I’m not sure about your warrior comment, tbh. Everybody has access to ascended, but only warriors have access to warriors?

But if individuals don’t matter, it only matter’s that each server has access to the same number of warrior. Anyway, sorry I engaged. I honestly am sick of this conversation. You win anyway.

haha i wasn’t trying to “win” but ok. I must be wearing ascended and not know it!

Scrambles.2604:

TooBz.3065:

Scrambles.2604:

TooBz.3065:

Ok, true, to an extent, the game is won on a macro-scale. However, I enjoy and play the game on a micro-scale. I get much more pleasure out of my performance than I do out of my server’s performance. And more pleasure out of my server’s performance than I do out of how our ranking changes.

No one will ever convince me that 5-12% damage increase doesn’t matter at the micro-scale.

Edit: I originally included this but deleted it, but I think it helps make my point. The argument people make in support of Ascended gear can also be made about class balance. Based on the macro argument it shouldn’t matter if warriors are OP, because both sides have them. But people QQ all the time (and in the WvW forum) and nobody ever tries to make that argument. Why?

I think skill will always win out over stats. Whenever i lose a 1v1 in WvW (which is almost NEVER because someone usually joins the fight from my side or the enemies) i can attribute it to something i did wrong, or something they did right, but not “they only won because they put out 10% more dmg.”

But again, this is meaningless in the overall scope of WvW. My 1v1 loss is a droplet of water in the 10 gallon bucket of WvW, but i think you understand this.

I’m not sure about your warrior comment, tbh. Everybody has access to ascended, but only warriors have access to warriors?

But if individuals don’t matter, it only matter’s that each server has access to the same number of warrior. Anyway, sorry I engaged. I honestly am sick of this conversation. You win anyway.

haha i wasn’t trying to “win” but ok. I must be wearing ascended and not know it!

Sorry I said conversation when I meant topic (I changed it quickly but you were faster). No offense meant. Ascended is a done deal and I’ve argued it until I’m exhausted.

FYI. I KNEW IT. …. frickin ascended gear. ;-)

Ascended ruined all the fair battles that used to happen in wvw! Oh wait, there’s never been a fair battle in wvw, ever.

The only way to make things absolutely fair is make everyone use the same class, same traits, same skills, same food, same groups sizes, no surprise attacks, no terrain advantages etc.

Before ascended, there was never a fair fight. If everyone in the game gets full ascended, there will still never be a fair fight. Get over it.

People are ignoring one very important impact Ascended gear in WvW has/will have.

“Thief hit me for 18K in 3 seconds!” complaints will become, “Thief hit me for 20K in 3 seconds!” complaints.

Squid.6903:

I believe that the way Ascended Gear is released goes against what made GW2 so fun in the past. It didn’t force you into doing stuff you didn’t want to do.

An Ascended weapon means I’ll be doing 10+% more damage than with my Exotic Weapon. That’s pretty huge in any kind of PvP.

So why aren’t there multiple pathways to getting these items? I mean from the start. From release. When Legendary/Ascended Weapons were released, there should have been a WvW method of getting them, or some sort of equivalent.

I don’t mean to say that it should be easy to get these items, but I find PvE boring—This is a game killer for me, and I know it is for some others, too.

Fix it, please.

Your still coming at this point as if WvW was made to be fair its not and never will be some one will always out number you or simply use the environment better then you will. If you cant get over that you need to stop playing wvw or any RvR type of game because your always going to be on the losing end.

As things stand WvW is one if not the best way to get ascended weapons taking keeps tower and camps all give the mats to make ascended weapons and can drop ascended weapons boxes.

WvW is not a true pvp type of game RvR is not a true pvp a true pvp is where you have nothing but players no true environment to effect the way of a fight. You need to stop trying to make WvW another version of Spvp.

Ascended gear is a 5% stat increase not a 10% stat increase btw. Not sure why people are saying it is a 10% increase. Also wvw is not spvp everyone is not suppose to be on equal footing. Some players use foods while others do not. Should I be penalized because someone else did not take the time to use food in wvw no. So why would A-net nerf ascended gear because some people do not feel like crafting ascended gear? The idea of a fair fight in wvw is pointless, if you want a fair fight go to spvp. Otherwise adapt your current wvw environment and learn to pick your fights.

Deadcell.9052:

Now on to my rant on why this is unfair to WvW’s. What really grinds my gears is when players say “buying ascended items with badges would be to easy” oh really???? How is earning say a 1000 badges any easier than running a champ train zerg in any given zone? IMO its not easier but significantly harder.

I think people think the badge drop rate is higher than it is, without the achievement chests, I think many people would realise any mass quantity of badges would require far more grind farming than karma farming.

Ulion.5476:

Ascended gear is a 5% stat increase not a 10% stat increase btw. Not sure why people are saying it is a 10% increase.

base weapon damage on ascended weapons is higher than exo

ascended weapons have a higher base damage AND 5% extra stats

Jski.6180:

Squid.6903:

I believe that the way Ascended Gear is released goes against what made GW2 so fun in the past. It didn’t force you into doing stuff you didn’t want to do.

An Ascended weapon means I’ll be doing 10+% more damage than with my Exotic Weapon. That’s pretty huge in any kind of PvP.

So why aren’t there multiple pathways to getting these items? I mean from the start. From release. When Legendary/Ascended Weapons were released, there should have been a WvW method of getting them, or some sort of equivalent.

I don’t mean to say that it should be easy to get these items, but I find PvE boring—This is a game killer for me, and I know it is for some others, too.

Fix it, please.

Your still coming at this point as if WvW was made to be fair its not and never will be some one will always out number you or simply use the environment better then you will. If you cant get over that you need to stop playing wvw or any RvR type of game because your always going to be on the losing end.

As things stand WvW is one if not the best way to get ascended weapons taking keeps tower and camps all give the mats to make ascended weapons and can drop ascended weapons boxes.

WvW is not a true pvp type of game RvR is not a true pvp a true pvp is where you have nothing but players no true environment to effect the way of a fight. You need to stop trying to make WvW another version of Spvp.

Why do people keep making this ridiculous argument that “it is not supposed to be fair”?

The entire basis of any sport or competitive game, is that both sides can win. Why would anyone, anywhere, participate in or watch a sport where you know the winner every week?

WvW is not a FFA deathmatch. It is a competition between 3 teams. Those 3 teams should start on an equal footing.

Why am I bothering…the second a game comes out with balanced WvW and horizontal progression every GW1 player will flock there anyway. Then ANet can raise the level cap to 1 million and you wow kids can be happy.

Protoavis.9107:

Ulion.5476:

Ascended gear is a 5% stat increase not a 10% stat increase btw. Not sure why people are saying it is a 10% increase.

base weapon damage on ascended weapons is higher than exo

ascended weapons have a higher base damage AND 5% extra stats

Also, if you use some combination of power, precision, and/or crit damage the effects compound.

Edit: Also, people say it’s not suppose to be fair in order to justify some degree of neglect. It allows balance issues, gear issues, and server population issues to be ignored.

Scrambles.2604:

TooBz.3065:

Scrambles.2604:

TooBz.3065:

Scrambles.2604:

Sirendor.1394:

Scrambles.2604:

Sirendor.1394:

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

Berelious.3290:

I still find it ironic that people use WvW as an excuse against Ascended equipment. They cite statistics, percentages, and such, but fail to remember one important thing… and that is that the one on one encounters do not matter in a mode of play that’s designed around group siege warfare. In the end, in WvW, the server with the biggest zerg wins.

False. Havoc squads can impact the capabilities of a team severely. If your massive Zerg is in EBG then you can have enemies slipping in to take down your keeps very quickly in the borderlands. Taking supplies is always devastating towards holding fortifications, and a small group nabbing frogs or dredge can create a nuisance.

And even then. Why do you think commanders ask for might and boons before a big engagement? Because that extra DPS can devastate a Zerg. Knockback, zone control, and all these things can break up ranks and make a Zerg much less ineffective when you’re blasting your enemy targets allover the place preventing them from stacking in place.

Zerg play is very key, but do not underestimate the small things. Don’t underestimate damage percentages, don’t underestimate extra might, don’t underestimate the power of casting stealth, invisibility, portals, blinds, aegis, and all these things. They can change a battle completely. I for example tend to carry ballista prints so that when my server is capping SMC and the enemy is holding up, we can throw down ballistas at the entrances and use a guardian to keep them trapped inside while we block out their push from the outside and prevent any dead from coming inside. What about tapping keeps to prevent enemy reinforcements from returning as quickly? That’s highly key too.

Seconding this. I’m part of a havoc squad, rebel guild, ‘troll society’ and it’s extremely important to have the best gear available there. We often fight up to 3 times as many enemies (3v9 yesterday, finished them all).

What I think WvW needs:

• Option 1: Downscale ascended to exotic stats.
• Option 2: Let us play WvW-Only characters, that can have BiS gear and level 80 without cost.
• Option 3: Upscale exotic armour in WvW to ascended.
• Option 4: Delete PvE gear from WvW, allow players to get their PvE skins for free and unlimited from a database.

I feel like your organized havoc squad would still have the same effect on overall PPT if you were running around in all exotics. Organization, teamwork, and experience play a much more significant role than stats.

Against ignorant zerglings we would most probably… against other organised havoc squads that did have exotics… don’t think so.

no offense, but that sounds like a cop-out.

“dang! that other havoc group only beat us because they have ascended!!”

I’m sure if that situation actually happened, there would be a lot more significant things that determined the outcome of that fight. And more importantly, regardless who won the groupvgroup fight, the effect on PPT would still be non-existent or insignificant.

I disagree. It only sounds like a cop out because you think ascended gear doesn’t matter.

in the big picture of WvW, losing a group v group fight because a group had ascended gear isn’t going to matter when your server’s primetime zerg rolls through the borderland that evening.

So everyone keeps telling me. You will never convince me, I will never convince you. One of us in wrong. Meh.

Ascended gear is a pretty significant and desirable upgrade for an individual. But in WvW, an individual is insignificant and undesirable.

Ascended gear is significant on a micro scale but WvW functions on a macro scale, so the overall effects of people having ascended gear, when roughly the same % of the enemy server population has ascended gear, is insignificant.

This is the truth, words of wisdom.

This may as well be like trying to stop glaciers…
They’re going to implement Ascended/Legendary armor, and we’re not going to like it. Can we complain before and after hand, yes. Will anything be done, most likely not.

There was something funny that a dev said… That ascended gear is/was meant to bridge (sit in the middle) the gap between acquiring exotics and legendaries. They seem to have realized that there is a gap, instead of investigating why there is a gap, they attempted to add something in the middle. well the problem still remains, but now the gap will be between ascended and legendary…. The hint is… it has something to do with precursors.

I’m prepared to be infracted. But it’s silly…

TooBz.3065:

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

Berelious.3290:

I still find it ironic that people use WvW as an excuse against Ascended equipment. They cite statistics, percentages, and such, but fail to remember one important thing… and that is that the one on one encounters do not matter in a mode of play that’s designed around group siege warfare. In the end, in WvW, the server with the biggest zerg wins.

False. Havoc squads can impact the capabilities of a team severely. If your massive Zerg is in EBG then you can have enemies slipping in to take down your keeps very quickly in the borderlands. Taking supplies is always devastating towards holding fortifications, and a small group nabbing frogs or dredge can create a nuisance.

And even then. Why do you think commanders ask for might and boons before a big engagement? Because that extra DPS can devastate a Zerg. Knockback, zone control, and all these things can break up ranks and make a Zerg much less ineffective when you’re blasting your enemy targets allover the place preventing them from stacking in place.

Zerg play is very key, but do not underestimate the small things. Don’t underestimate damage percentages, don’t underestimate extra might, don’t underestimate the power of casting stealth, invisibility, portals, blinds, aegis, and all these things. They can change a battle completely. I for example tend to carry ballista prints so that when my server is capping SMC and the enemy is holding up, we can throw down ballistas at the entrances and use a guardian to keep them trapped inside while we block out their push from the outside and prevent any dead from coming inside. What about tapping keeps to prevent enemy reinforcements from returning as quickly? That’s highly key too.

There is no logic.

A 10% increase in power from might stacks is really significant but a 10% increase from gear is not, because might stacks.

In PVE, a 1% increase in DPS from picking the right gear (say having a beserkers ring vs. a knight one) is much more imporant than the optional 10% DPS from getting ascended gear, because zerkers.

I’m not sure what you mean by the first part :L

Either give us a WvW grind for it, or don’t let it enter WvW.

10% damage from a special PVE grind crafted weapon is a lot. I don’t care if you disagree with me. My opinion is that it is terrible.

(Not to mention it goes against the “play how you want” sales-speak they used in 2012/2011)

I was sold a lie. I was lied to. So were you.

laharl.8435:

Ascended ruined all the fair battles that used to happen in wvw! Oh wait, there’s never been a fair battle in wvw, ever.

The only way to make things absolutely fair is make everyone use the same class, same traits, same skills, same food, same groups sizes, no surprise attacks, no terrain advantages etc.

Before ascended, there was never a fair fight. If everyone in the game gets full ascended, there will still never be a fair fight. Get over it.

If someone breaks your thumb, is it alright for them to break the rest of your fingers because your hand is already broken?

Because for many people. This is why they play this game. They don’t care about dungeons. They don’t care about scarlet. They only care about smashing the enemy server. You may argue it’s not as severe as breaking a person’s limb but this is for many people breaking the limbs of the game they play.

caiomacos.1694:

fellyn.5083:

Squid.6903:

I believe that the way Ascended Gear is released goes against what made GW2 so fun in the past. It didn’t force you into doing stuff you didn’t want to do.

An Ascended weapon means I’ll be doing 10+% more damage than with my Exotic Weapon. That’s pretty huge in any kind of PvP.

So why aren’t there multiple pathways to getting these items? I mean from the start. From release. When Legendary/Ascended Weapons were released, there should have been a WvW method of getting them, or some sort of equivalent.

I don’t mean to say that it should be easy to get these items, but I find PvE boring—This is a game killer for me, and I know it is for some others, too.

Fix it, please.

Precursor weapons drop in wvw. I’m pretty sure you can get most of the other materials to make a legendary weapon in wvw too, except for the dungeon tokens.

Therefor Legendarys can be obtained in wvw. Same goes for all the materials required to make ascended weapons.

And complete ascended weapons have a chance to drop anywhere that ascended materials drop as well.

Are you really relying on RNG to acquire your ascended weapons on GW2? I mean, really? And what would you do with a Healing Power / Precision / Vitality weapon on a Condition Damage build?

No, I hate rng as much as the next person.

Scrambles.2604:

TooBz.3065:

Scrambles.2604:

TooBz.3065:

Scrambles.2604:

Sirendor.1394:

Scrambles.2604:

Sirendor.1394:

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

False. Havoc squads can impact the capabilities of a team severely. If your massive Zerg is in EBG then you can have enemies slipping in to take down your keeps very quickly in the borderlands. Taking supplies is always devastating towards holding fortifications, and a small group nabbing frogs or dredge can create a nuisance.

And even then. Why do you think commanders ask for might and boons before a big engagement? Because that extra DPS can devastate a Zerg. Knockback, zone control, and all these things can break up ranks and make a Zerg much less ineffective when you’re blasting your enemy targets allover the place preventing them from stacking in place.

Zerg play is very key, but do not underestimate the small things. Don’t underestimate damage percentages, don’t underestimate extra might, don’t underestimate the power of casting stealth, invisibility, portals, blinds, aegis, and all these things. They can change a battle completely. I for example tend to carry ballista prints so that when my server is capping SMC and the enemy is holding up, we can throw down ballistas at the entrances and use a guardian to keep them trapped inside while we block out their push from the outside and prevent any dead from coming inside. What about tapping keeps to prevent enemy reinforcements from returning as quickly? That’s highly key too.

Seconding this. I’m part of a havoc squad, rebel guild, ‘troll society’ and it’s extremely important to have the best gear available there. We often fight up to 3 times as many enemies (3v9 yesterday, finished them all).

What I think WvW needs:

• Option 1: Downscale ascended to exotic stats.
• Option 2: Let us play WvW-Only characters, that can have BiS gear and level 80 without cost.
• Option 3: Upscale exotic armour in WvW to ascended.
• Option 4: Delete PvE gear from WvW, allow players to get their PvE skins for free and unlimited from a database.

I feel like your organized havoc squad would still have the same effect on overall PPT if you were running around in all exotics. Organization, teamwork, and experience play a much more significant role than stats.

Against ignorant zerglings we would most probably… against other organised havoc squads that did have exotics… don’t think so.

no offense, but that sounds like a cop-out.

“dang! that other havoc group only beat us because they have ascended!!”

I’m sure if that situation actually happened, there would be a lot more significant things that determined the outcome of that fight. And more importantly, regardless who won the groupvgroup fight, the effect on PPT would still be non-existent or insignificant.

I disagree. It only sounds like a cop out because you think ascended gear doesn’t matter.

in the big picture of WvW, losing a group v group fight because a group had ascended gear isn’t going to matter when your server’s primetime zerg rolls through the borderland that evening.

So everyone keeps telling me. You will never convince me, I will never convince you. One of us in wrong. Meh.

Ascended gear is a pretty significant and desirable upgrade for an individual. But in WvW, an individual is insignificant and undesirable.

Ascended gear is significant on a micro scale but WvW functions on a macro scale, so the overall effects of people having ascended gear, when roughly the same % of the enemy server population has ascended gear, is insignificant.

This is a falacy because a Zerg with ascended gear is able to do much more of whatever they’re doing than a Zerg without. It’s practically the difference between superior and regular siege weapons. It’s not aesthetics. They’re seriously and significantly better, even if only 10%/whatever it will be after ascended comes out. Skill is important yes, but numbers in stats and groups are devastating let alone other things like bloodlust, morale, and whatever else have you. You may think that’s not the case, but every player capable of doing what they’re doing faster, stronger and quicker is contributing much more effectively to their server, weather you realise it or not. If you have the damage to take out the cannons and burning oil quicker, you’re contributing to your team, if your suppress on the walls is stronger, you’re contributing to the team. If your healing is quicker, you’re contributing to your team. Any stat increase in any shape or form is beneficial to the team from a micro to a macro scale, otherwise why even bother with a stat raise in the first place?

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

This is a falacy because a Zerg with ascended gear is able to do much more of whatever they’re doing than a Zerg without. It’s practically the difference between superior and regular siege weapons. It’s not aesthetics. They’re seriously and significantly better, even if only 10%/whatever it will be after ascended comes out. Skill is important yes, but numbers in stats and groups are devastating let alone other things like bloodlust, morale, and whatever else have you. You may think that’s not the case, but every player capable of doing what they’re doing faster, stronger and quicker is contributing much more effectively to their server, weather you realise it or not. If you have the damage to take out the cannons and burning oil quicker, you’re contributing to your team, if your suppress on the walls is stronger, you’re contributing to the team. If your healing is quicker, you’re contributing to your team. Any stat increase in any shape or form is beneficial to the team from a micro to a macro scale, otherwise why even bother with a stat raise in the first place?

We could say your argument is a fallacy as well..

1) everyone has equal opportunity to make/get ascended gear – if you don’t then that’s your own problem

2) up levels – these are way more disadvantaged than an ascended vs exotic fight. the uplevel will pretty much get instagibbed against a level 80 in full rares, not to mention exotics. But to this day in the last year I haven’t seen a single person complain they have to fight up levels

3) wvw is not meant to be balanced, that’s why it’s 1v1v1

4) if you want a level playing field a net already has one for you – it’s called spvp or tpvp (wvw isn’t meant to be balanced)

5) food – gives a huge advantage to people who can afford it vs those who can’t

Ascended is here to stay. It’s time people should learn to accept that. If anet is to remove ascended gear from wvw they would have to change all of the above as well. Because a balanced sterile environment is important, after all.

Sube Dai.8496:

Jski.6180:

Squid.6903:

I believe that the way Ascended Gear is released goes against what made GW2 so fun in the past. It didn’t force you into doing stuff you didn’t want to do.

An Ascended weapon means I’ll be doing 10+% more damage than with my Exotic Weapon. That’s pretty huge in any kind of PvP.

So why aren’t there multiple pathways to getting these items? I mean from the start. From release. When Legendary/Ascended Weapons were released, there should have been a WvW method of getting them, or some sort of equivalent.

I don’t mean to say that it should be easy to get these items, but I find PvE boring—This is a game killer for me, and I know it is for some others, too.

Fix it, please.

Your still coming at this point as if WvW was made to be fair its not and never will be some one will always out number you or simply use the environment better then you will. If you cant get over that you need to stop playing wvw or any RvR type of game because your always going to be on the losing end.

As things stand WvW is one if not the best way to get ascended weapons taking keeps tower and camps all give the mats to make ascended weapons and can drop ascended weapons boxes.

WvW is not a true pvp type of game RvR is not a true pvp a true pvp is where you have nothing but players no true environment to effect the way of a fight. You need to stop trying to make WvW another version of Spvp.

Why do people keep making this ridiculous argument that “it is not supposed to be fair”?

The entire basis of any sport or competitive game, is that both sides can win. Why would anyone, anywhere, participate in or watch a sport where you know the winner every week?

WvW is not a FFA deathmatch. It is a competition between 3 teams. Those 3 teams should start on an equal footing.

Why am I bothering…the second a game comes out with balanced WvW and horizontal progression every GW1 player will flock there anyway. Then ANet can raise the level cap to 1 million and you wow kids can be happy.

Because of up levels that alone makes WvW unfair. There also wvw weapons that are made to take advantages of larges number of players and make a few number of players able to def a point.

Haha “Those 3 teams should start on an equal footing.” now that is a joke the idea of having a 3 way fight means that there will be an odd one out. From the start of a week there is no equal footing because you cant apply the same power to each of the other 2 sides. 1v1 as in one world vs one world or one team vs one team is an equal footing that is why most sports are played as such and things like Spvp are in such as setting. Even all pvp games are set up like this because in a 1 v 1 v 1 or more you CANT have any equal set up.

And your blowing the idea of ascended way out of proportion to meat you own fears. We are not talking about a full tear set we are talking a small upgrade if it was the same as going from rare to exotic you may have a point but this is not the way it is. Yes they could up the cap to level 1 mil but going from exotic to ascended is no where near that type of progression.

GW1 did not have a RvR is was a pure pvp game with a bit of late coming pve. GW2 has RvR where you fight 2 other worlds who may or may not have higher pop. during any times during the days weekends or week days. You could fight a world who has team up with the other world and get comply destroyed. Your would could team up with other and do the same to the 3ed. Your world could bunker in tower keeps and use every WvW wepon in the game to hold. Your world could be pure open filed and never use any WvW weapons. The only thing you cant do is have one person dictate what is good and what is bad for WvW. That alone is up to your world that you play on. Even these forums lack the power to give the full depths of what real WvW players think about this or that.

If you truly do not like this GW2 has Spvp this sounds like what you want out of pvp so i suggested you play that for a bit and leave wvw for ppl who want to have fun playing a game and not think about max min builds all the time.

Protoavis.9107:

Ulion.5476:

Ascended gear is a 5% stat increase not a 10% stat increase btw. Not sure why people are saying it is a 10% increase.

base weapon damage on ascended weapons is higher than exo

ascended weapons have a higher base damage AND 5% extra stats

It is a 5% base damage increase, 5% stat increase, so a 5% increase overall.

Taking 2 players of equal skill with equally powerful builds, assuming the that they both play perfectly, the one with the better gear will always win. I’ll take that 5%.

fellyn.5083:

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

This is a falacy because a Zerg with ascended gear is able to do much more of whatever they’re doing than a Zerg without. It’s practically the difference between superior and regular siege weapons. It’s not aesthetics. They’re seriously and significantly better, even if only 10%/whatever it will be after ascended comes out. Skill is important yes, but numbers in stats and groups are devastating let alone other things like bloodlust, morale, and whatever else have you. You may think that’s not the case, but every player capable of doing what they’re doing faster, stronger and quicker is contributing much more effectively to their server, weather you realise it or not. If you have the damage to take out the cannons and burning oil quicker, you’re contributing to your team, if your suppress on the walls is stronger, you’re contributing to the team. If your healing is quicker, you’re contributing to your team. Any stat increase in any shape or form is beneficial to the team from a micro to a macro scale, otherwise why even bother with a stat raise in the first place?

We could say your argument is a fallacy as well..

1) everyone has equal opportunity to make/get ascended gear – if you don’t then that’s your own problem

2) up levels – these are way more disadvantaged than an ascended vs exotic fight. the uplevel will pretty much get instagibbed against a level 80 in full rares, not to mention exotics. But to this day in the last year I haven’t seen a single person complain they have to fight up levels

3) wvw is not meant to be balanced, that’s why it’s 1v1v1

4) if you want a level playing field a net already has one for you – it’s called spvp or tpvp (wvw isn’t meant to be balanced)

5) food – gives a huge advantage to people who can afford it vs those who can’t

Ascended is here to stay. It’s time people should learn to accept that. If anet is to remove ascended gear from wvw they would have to change all of the above as well. Because a balanced sterile environment is important, after all.

1) You do, but it doesn’t change the fact that it imbalances the game. How quickly an individual gets the gear is individually subjective, and considering there’s no realizable method besides crafting, which many people may not like and it goes against the whole idea of play as you wish because there is only one realizable method again to acquire ascended.

2) Uplevels can still work off on NPCs, however in saying that you can’t factor Uplevels in because let alone exotics or ascended up levels more likely than not won’t even have the chance. At least at 80, you can wear ascended if you wish. At level 30-79, even if you wanted to, or even if you theoretically had it, you wouldn’t be able to use it. So mentioning Uplevels is moot.

3) So it’s okay to use “It’s broken” as justification to break something further then? Is it alright if someone breaks your wrist, then breaks the rest of your arm on grounds that it’s already broken? Because that’s the argument you just presented.

4) sPvP is entirely different to WvW, and WvW shouldn’t really be impacted by something that’s PVE orientated, considering they’re two different game modes. It’s not a hard concept to grasp. WvW isn’t equal. But that’s not a reason to make it even less so.

5) Food is food. Different food, different pros and cons. However food isn’t what the game is balanced around rather the opposite. So mentioning that doesn’t really make any difference or any point.

Ascended gear is here to stay, correct. But it doesn’t make it a good thing. And that’s what you fail to understand. Telling me it’s here doesn’t have any effect on anything save for you getting the grand title of captain obvious. However saying that it makes no difference, that it’s insignificant in its effect is a load of kitten excretion because it pumps extra fuel into elitism, which is already a problem in gaming and only amplified by things like gear tiers, and destabilises the PVP environment. WvW is a PVP environment. Be technical about it all you wish, but you’re killing players aswell as NPCs, and players are the active, directive force in WvW, so creating tiers on this kind of an environment is anything but good.

Ulion.5476:

Protoavis.9107:

Ulion.5476:

Ascended gear is a 5% stat increase not a 10% stat increase btw. Not sure why people are saying it is a 10% increase.

base weapon damage on ascended weapons is higher than exo

ascended weapons have a higher base damage AND 5% extra stats

It is a 5% base damage increase, 5% stat increase, so a 5% increase overall.

only that’s not how it works, when you combine 5% base damage, with zerker gear it’s not a 5% damage increase. The 5% compounds.

Protoavis.9107:

Ulion.5476:

Protoavis.9107:

Ulion.5476:

Ascended gear is a 5% stat increase not a 10% stat increase btw. Not sure why people are saying it is a 10% increase.

base weapon damage on ascended weapons is higher than exo

ascended weapons have a higher base damage AND 5% extra stats

It is a 5% base damage increase, 5% stat increase, so a 5% increase overall.

only that’s not how it works, when you combine 5% base damage, with zerker gear it’s not a 5% damage increase. The 5% compounds.

Interesting wearing zerker gear in wvw. Still it is a 5% overall stat increase. Yes dps is calculated differently but can not say it is a 10% increase to overall dps when it is not.

Ulion.5476:

Protoavis.9107:

Ulion.5476:

Protoavis.9107:

Ulion.5476:

Ascended gear is a 5% stat increase not a 10% stat increase btw. Not sure why people are saying it is a 10% increase.

base weapon damage on ascended weapons is higher than exo

ascended weapons have a higher base damage AND 5% extra stats

It is a 5% base damage increase, 5% stat increase, so a 5% increase overall.

only that’s not how it works, when you combine 5% base damage, with zerker gear it’s not a 5% damage increase. The 5% compounds.

Interesting wearing zerker gear in wvw. Still it is a 5% overall stat increase. Yes dps is calculated differently but can not say it is a 10% increase to overall dps when it is not.

You can’t say it’s 5% either. 5% would only be true if only the weapon base damage increased…it isn’t. The 5% damage increase only factors in the weapon base damage, it does not factor in the stat increases or the skill coefficents that have also increased due. The difference between a max dps exotic character vs a max dps ascended character is between 10% and 16% at current. Given the trend, when exo armor comes out this will increase further.

1. The argument that it goes against the “play how you want” philosophy is invalid because, in all honesty, Ascended armor is NOT required or even necessary to play competitively in WvW. If you don’t believe me, someone already made the micro/macro argument far better than I ever could. Ultimately, the only real reason to craft Ascended ANYTHING is because you WANT it, not because you absolutely have to have it in order to be competitive.

2. Up-levels in WvW actually means a great deal, because it means that no matter what the level a player is, it still adds to the overall strength of the server, both offensively and defensively.

3. Whether or not WvW was meant to be unbalanced or not is irrelevant, because it always has been right from the start, and shows no sign of changing.

4. WvW is actually meant to be impacted by many aspects of PvE, and it was intentionally designed that way. If you don’t believe me, then ask yourself why ANY equipment from PvE is allowed in WvW? Why is WvW required for Map Completion? Why are 4 huge jumping puzzles from WvW not placed in their own category? Why are there harvest points on every map? Why are there NPC enemies that can be defeated as well as players? Why are there skill points, PoI’s, Waypoints, Vistas? These are all aspects of PvE, not PvP. I’m sorry, but all the evidence points to ANet intending WvW to be an aspect of PvE.

5. Food is one of the few readily available consumable buffers in game, and it’s meant to be used as such, therefor certain balancing aspects around it DO have to be made, or at least included. Whether or not you use it doesn’t matter, it’s still a huge aspect of the game and should NEVER be discounted.

Ulion.5476:

Protoavis.9107:

Ulion.5476:

Ascended gear is a 5% stat increase not a 10% stat increase btw. Not sure why people are saying it is a 10% increase.

base weapon damage on ascended weapons is higher than exo

ascended weapons have a higher base damage AND 5% extra stats

It is a 5% base damage increase, 5% stat increase, so a 5% increase overall.

That’s for weapons. Trinkets do have a 10% stat increase.

Ulion.5476:

Protoavis.9107:

only that’s not how it works, when you combine 5% base damage, with zerker gear it’s not a 5% damage increase. The 5% compounds.

Interesting wearing zerker gear in wvw. Still it is a 5% overall stat increase. Yes dps is calculated differently but can not say it is a 10% increase to overall dps when it is not.

For zerker the dps increase for full set is over 20%. 10-12% is for soldier gear, which is quite popular in WvW.

Berelious.3290:

1. The argument that it goes against the “play how you want” philosophy is invalid because, in all honesty, Ascended armor is NOT required or even necessary to play competitively in WvW.

It may not be required, but it certainly helps a lot.

Berelious.3290:

If you don’t believe me, someone already made the micro/macro argument far better than I ever could.

And that argument got debunked.

Berelious.3290:

3. Whether or not WvW was meant to be unbalanced or not is irrelevant, because it always has been right from the start, and shows no sign of changing.

As has been mentioned many times in this thread, “It was broken, so it doesn’t matter if we break it even more” is a terrible argument.

Berelious.3290:

5. Food is one of the few readily available consumable buffers in game, and it’s meant to be used as such, therefor certain balancing aspects around it DO have to be made, or at least included. Whether or not you use it doesn’t matter, it’s still a huge aspect of the game and should NEVER be discounted.

Interesting. You say that food cannot be discounted, and yet ascended gear can? Please, have some consistency here…

Squid.6903:

Either give us a WvW grind for it, or don’t let it enter WvW.

10% damage from a special PVE grind crafted weapon is a lot. I don’t care if you disagree with me. My opinion is that it is terrible.

(Not to mention it goes against the “play how you want” sales-speak they used in 2012/2011)

I was sold a lie. I was lied to. So were you.

I agree. But because I think it would be very hard to implement Ascended acquisition in WvW (because so many people zerg > faster acquisition than roamers/scouts/siege builders and resetters). It wouldn’t really be fair to give the average #1 spamming zergling better rewards than someone who invests time to actually defend his server.

So basically: keep ascended out of WvW, upscale everyone in WvW to BiS or downscale players who have ascended.

But an exotic weapon being better than a rare is O.K.?

This argument is asinine. A.net’s only mistake was not having Ascended in at launch. I for one am grateful that they recognized the need for it, as exotics are stupid-easy to get. Something more was needed and ascended was it.

It’s only a treadmill if they keep adding tiers afterwards, which they never will. They’re filling a gap, rightfully so.

Celeras.4980:

But an exotic weapon being better than a rare is O.K.?

This argument is asinine. A.net’s only mistake was not having Ascended in at launch. I for one am grateful that they recognized the need for it, as exotics are stupid-easy to get. Something more was needed and ascended was it.

It’s only a treadmill if they keep adding tiers afterwards, which they never will. They’re filling a gap, rightfully so.

….

An Exotic weapon costs 1-5 gold at max.

An Ascended weapon costs 260g at min.

Exotic can be better than rare, because it’s pretty easy to get. Do 1-2 dungeons and you have your exotic. Or if you’re a WvW player like me, 1 day earns me 2-5g depending on what I do.

Ascended are just outrageous.

Celeras.4980:

But an exotic weapon being better than a rare is O.K.?

General availability of exotic gear makes it ok. If ascended gear was obtainable at comparable prices and in all the same multitude of ways as exotics, it would also be ok. Unfortunately, it isn’t.
It’s not the fact that they weren’t there at launch that makes ascended a problem, but the cost and effort required to get them.

Astralporing.1957:

Celeras.4980:

But an exotic weapon being better than a rare is O.K.?

General availability of exotic gear makes it ok. If ascended gear was obtainable at comparable prices and in all the same multitude of ways as exotics, it would also be ok. Unfortunately, it isn’t.
It’s not the fact that they weren’t there at launch that makes ascended a problem, but the cost and effort required to get them.

Now this is an argument that I can get behind. Honestly, I have to agree that the overall cost of Ascended gear IS a bit much. Not only the cost for the raw material itself but actually getting the necessary crafting discipline to 500 costs a lot, not only in the way of gold but also in Karma. Honestly I wish they’d reverse the Karma nerf so that at least then we’d have less grind to worry about for oby shards.

Elmo Benchwarmer.3025:

phys.7689:

Wvw isn’t even, and conceptually was meant to reward charachter progression. That said charachter progression should be available to and encourage wvw playstyles

Allow me to disagree.

I can’t help but feel that saying WvW was never meant to be and never will be balanced is essentially a non argument. No game designer promotes his game as imbalanced. You don’t design a game to be imbalanced. When you start it out, you want it to be as balanced as it possibly can be.

That WvW favours numbers and that usually a large group defeats a small group doesn’t legitimate even more imbalance. If it did there wouldn’t have been the Confusion or Bloodlust nerfs. And I’m not even arguing the point that larger teams have an advantage.

What I’m saying is that you need an even starting ground. Everyone’s base equipment should be the same. If you can fool the opposition to run into your zerg more power to you. But on the other hand with some attention and map communication you can dodge the zerg alright if you want to. And the introduction of the ruins and the Edge of the mist map clearly shows that small party play is indeed a part of WvW. And in small party play balance is of the essence.

If you want protection stay with the larger group. But don’t introduce gear that throws off balance where it actually is (or should be) and matters: in the small fights (although I want to make clear that in my opinion the power creep is bad even in larger battltes).

You are thinking of spvp, that is supposed to be fair level playing field. Wvw is pvp that is about all the things you have built and developwe versus what your enemies have.

Like in sports some people train harder than others, that is part of what they wanted in wvw. You know one of their early ideas for wvw was no level cap, with diminishing returns on stats?

Point is wvw was always meant to give a limited advantage for time spent. Look at wxp. They do however not want total imbalance, that’s why the effect of time spent is comparatively minimal

Ascended weapon costs 60 gold approx

Ascended inscription on TP 36-45 gold
Deldrimor steel and spirit wood planks 20-40 gold depending on weapon.

I guess your counting leveling crafting but that’s a one time cost. I will say they should offer alt recipes in mystic forge for non crafters that require the vision crystal and the crafted components.

….
[Quote]
An Exotic weapon costs 1-5 gold at max.

An Ascended weapon costs 260g at min.

Exotic can be better than rare, because it’s pretty easy to get. Do 1-2 dungeons and you have your exotic. Or if you’re a WvW player like me, 1 day earns me 2-5g depending on what I do.

Ascended are just outrageous.[/quote]

Sube Dai.8496:

Jski.6180:

Squid.6903:

I believe that the way Ascended Gear is released goes against what made GW2 so fun in the past. It didn’t force you into doing stuff you didn’t want to do.

An Ascended weapon means I’ll be doing 10+% more damage than with my Exotic Weapon. That’s pretty huge in any kind of PvP.

So why aren’t there multiple pathways to getting these items? I mean from the start. From release. When Legendary/Ascended Weapons were released, there should have been a WvW method of getting them, or some sort of equivalent.

I don’t mean to say that it should be easy to get these items, but I find PvE boring—This is a game killer for me, and I know it is for some others, too.

Fix it, please.

Your still coming at this point as if WvW was made to be fair its not and never will be some one will always out number you or simply use the environment better then you will. If you cant get over that you need to stop playing wvw or any RvR type of game because your always going to be on the losing end.

As things stand WvW is one if not the best way to get ascended weapons taking keeps tower and camps all give the mats to make ascended weapons and can drop ascended weapons boxes.

WvW is not a true pvp type of game RvR is not a true pvp a true pvp is where you have nothing but players no true environment to effect the way of a fight. You need to stop trying to make WvW another version of Spvp.

Why do people keep making this ridiculous argument that “it is not supposed to be fair”?

The entire basis of any sport or competitive game, is that both sides can win. Why would anyone, anywhere, participate in or watch a sport where you know the winner every week?

WvW is not a FFA deathmatch. It is a competition between 3 teams. Those 3 teams should start on an equal footing.

Why am I bothering…the second a game comes out with balanced WvW and horizontal progression every GW1 player will flock there anyway. Then ANet can raise the level cap to 1 million and you wow kids can be happy.

No, sports aren’t supposed to be fair, they are competitive. That is two different things, sports rewards hard work, and natural inclination way more than wvw does.

Sports sets certqin rules, then asks the player if he’s willing to compete. That’s all.

All I want to know is when will I be able to earn my Ascended weapons/Armor by playing WvW. PvEr’s do not have to WvW to earn their weapons why should I have to PvE?

There’s nothing wrong with ascended gear in WvW. The problem is simply with the way ascended gear is obtained. There’s no reason the weapons or the ascended materials to make them should have been account bound. There’s no reason ascended tiers of weapons couldn’t be added to the dungeon sets for 2x the number of badges.

The only problem with ascended gear at all is the fact that it isn’t alt friendly. Solve this and all problems with the gear would be solved.

phys.7689:

No, sports aren’t supposed to be fair, they are competitive. That is two different things, sports rewards hard work, and natural inclination way more than wvw does.

Sports sets certqin rules, then asks the player if he’s willing to compete. That’s all.

Don’t let the IOC know that. You’ll get sued.

Fairness is one of the paradigms of sports. Just look at the uproar doping caused in the Tour de France. German TV channels stopped live transmissions alltogether. Even technology gets banned for giving unfair advantages.

“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_doping”

Deadcell.9052:

All I want to know is when will I be able to earn my Ascended weapons/Armor by playing WvW. PvEr’s do not have to WvW to earn their weapons why should I have to PvE?

this i agree with. however i think crafting should be the most efficient method. (not leveling crafting) vision crystal is a good idea, earned through play, but it shouldnt be a crafting only, and should be better methods for dragonite as i have stated before, in wvw

Elmo Benchwarmer.3025:

phys.7689:

No, sports aren’t supposed to be fair, they are competitive. That is two different things, sports rewards hard work, and natural inclination way more than wvw does.

Sports sets certqin rules, then asks the player if he’s willing to compete. That’s all.

Don’t let the IOC know that. You’ll get sued.

Fairness is one of the paradigms of sports. Just look at the uproar doping caused in the Tour de France. German TV channels stopped live transmissions alltogether. Even technology gets banned for giving unfair advantages.

“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_doping”

[/quote]

nothing fair about being born naturally with what others have to dope to obtain. Also people here are against the idea that people who play longer get better stats, the same is true in sports, those who have time to train increase strength, speed, etc.

I dont agree with doping, but to be honest its just a rule that we agree upon before the game. like i said, rules are set, and then you are allowed to do whatever within that rule set, based on your natural talents and training, but its not like sports makes sure everyone has the same statisitics, team make up, etc.

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

laharl.8435:

Ascended ruined all the fair battles that used to happen in wvw! Oh wait, there’s never been a fair battle in wvw, ever.

The only way to make things absolutely fair is make everyone use the same class, same traits, same skills, same food, same groups sizes, no surprise attacks, no terrain advantages etc.

Before ascended, there was never a fair fight. If everyone in the game gets full ascended, there will still never be a fair fight. Get over it.

If someone breaks your thumb, is it alright for them to break the rest of your fingers because your hand is already broken?

Because for many people. This is why they play this game. They don’t care about dungeons. They don’t care about scarlet. They only care about smashing the enemy server. You may argue it’s not as severe as breaking a person’s limb but this is for many people breaking the limbs of the game they play.

WvW was never balanced, it was never meant to be a completely fair battlefield, which is quite obvious really. There are no broken fingers. Battles were just as fair before there was ascended. Ascended has changed absolutely nothing.

There at tons people that don’t even use food, which can have more of an effect than ascended. Look at traits and builds, not all are created equally. Some are over 1000%+ more effective than others. Ascended is nothing.

phys.7689:

Ascended weapon costs 60 gold approx

Ascended inscription on TP 36-45 gold
Deldrimor steel and spirit wood planks 20-40 gold depending on weapon.

I guess your counting leveling crafting but that’s a one time cost. I will say they should offer alt recipes in mystic forge for non crafters that require the vision crystal and the crafted components.

….

An Exotic weapon costs 1-5 gold at max.

An Ascended weapon costs 260g at min.

Exotic can be better than rare, because it’s pretty easy to get. Do 1-2 dungeons and you have your exotic. Or if you’re a WvW player like me, 1 day earns me 2-5g depending on what I do.

Ascended are just outrageous.

I was referring to the crafting indeed. I’m hardly able to gather such amounts of money and I don’t think it’s really fair, since small scale WvW players earn a lot less than the average PvE player or WvW zerg player. I wouldn’t mind ascended if they were accessible to everyone.

laharl.8435:

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

laharl.8435:

Ascended ruined all the fair battles that used to happen in wvw! Oh wait, there’s never been a fair battle in wvw, ever.

The only way to make things absolutely fair is make everyone use the same class, same traits, same skills, same food, same groups sizes, no surprise attacks, no terrain advantages etc.

Before ascended, there was never a fair fight. If everyone in the game gets full ascended, there will still never be a fair fight. Get over it.

If someone breaks your thumb, is it alright for them to break the rest of your fingers because your hand is already broken?

Because for many people. This is why they play this game. They don’t care about dungeons. They don’t care about scarlet. They only care about smashing the enemy server. You may argue it’s not as severe as breaking a person’s limb but this is for many people breaking the limbs of the game they play.

WvW was never balanced, it was never meant to be a completely fair battlefield, which is quite obvious really. There are no broken fingers. Battles were just as fair before there was ascended. Ascended has changed absolutely nothing.

There at tons people that don’t even use food, which can have more of an effect than ascended. Look at traits and builds, not all are created equally. Some are over 1000%+ more effective than others. Ascended is nothing.

That comparison is so far off. Traits are something that are completely free (if you don’t count the negligible 3,5 silver). Everyone has a choice to pick the traits he/she wants.

Deadcell.9052:

All I want to know is when will I be able to earn my Ascended weapons/Armor by playing WvW. PvEr’s do not have to WvW to earn their weapons why should I have to PvE?

Well what do you call crafting is the most important factor if you call ascended weapons and armor (well we do not know how these work yet) able to be earn from wvw. As things stand you can craft in Spvp but more of a MF type of crafting. Also you can get crafting items from running wvw so i am not so sure if crafting would be pve only but that more of a point of view.