Guild Wars 2

… Indirectly

ANet allows the player character to interact with magic related to the 6 gods, regardless of race, in the latest living story.

That’s 1 big barrier to the Dervish gone. Dervish hype train now for whenever we get to Elona. Choo choo

So all humans are in a way dervish because they can use ability related to the gods?

I’ve been telling people this for ages, I don’t know why people find it so hard to wrap their heads around a simple concept.

• The races need power to fight the dragons
• There is power in the magic of the old gods
• The races begin to use this power to fight the dragons

or

• The races need power to fight the dragons
• They find a way to use the power of the dragons
• The races begin to use this power to fight the dragons, like using the power of the old gods

It’s totally sound from a lore perspective. The introduction of spear weapons makes it all the more likely too.

From what I recall, the human gods basically went “lolz we’re done here” and left the world. Accurate or not, the gods are gone, probably in the same sense zhaitan is “gone.” They may not be present anymore, but that does not mean their influence/magic is gone as well. I mean… magic simply is. Compare it to paper and pencil. They exist, but as they exist, they have no purpose. Your intent can change them into something as simple as words on paper (cough useless seraph orders), to as complex as quantum mathematics as applied to golemancy, for example. Intent is what it’s all about.

You have the intent to make yourself an aspect/form of a god, the magic, within reason, makes it happen.

So humans using skills like Hounds of balthazar or Norn using Bear Form arent examples of us already using dervish practices?

But what would be even cooler is a Dervish that uses the power of the dragons brought to practice by a know Rytlock Brimstone….

Im not sure if this hype train ever gonna leave the station…

Wanze.8410:

Im not sure if this hype train ever gonna leave the station…

I’m waiting for the people hyping this stuff up to actually post links to official sources backing up their fantasies.

uknortherner.2670:

Wanze.8410:

Im not sure if this hype train ever gonna leave the station…

I’m waiting for the people hyping this stuff up to actually post links to official sources backing up their fantasies.

He probably had an email in his junk mail folder from a Nigerian Investment Company claiming to know that this will happen in 2015 and once he sends over his CC details, they will be able to make lots of money for him. He cant link it here though because you have to be a “trusted person” to take this offer.

Wanze.8410:

uknortherner.2670:

Wanze.8410:

Im not sure if this hype train ever gonna leave the station…

I’m waiting for the people hyping this stuff up to actually post links to official sources backing up their fantasies.

He probably had an email in his junk mail folder from a Nigerian Investment Company claiming to know that this will happen in 2015 and once he sends over his CC details, they will be able to make lots of money for him. He cant link it here though because you have to be a “trusted person” to take this offer.

Everyone knows that’s fake. Only a Nigerian Prince would contact you, because royalty can afford to give you a cut for moving money for them.

uknortherner.2670:

Wanze.8410:

Im not sure if this hype train ever gonna leave the station…

I’m waiting for the people hyping this stuff up to actually post links to official sources backing up their fantasies.

He isn’t wrong on the possibility (not saying it’s confirmed though)

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ascension
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dervish

Tl;dr : In Guild Wars 1, it was assumed that only humans could ascend and evoke the powers of the gods but in this last story it was shown that all races could attain a similar effect, not full ascension but something close, which shows that all races could possible fully ascend as the human players did in the original game.

As the Dervish used powers they evoked from the human gods(through prayers instead of ascension), the apparent fact that other races might also be able to channel those powers opens up the fact that a Dervish class could technically be open for use by all races in this game.

What all those people seem to turn a blind eye to is the fact that only the humans actually consider the Gods to be Gods in the sense of omnipotent beings that govern their lives.

Norn consider them spirits of action, Sylvari regard them as curiosities, Asura probably think of them as something to be studied and harnessed rather than venerated or worshipped and the Charr outright want them to come back to Tyria so they can stomp them to the curb once and for all.

Dervish is not gonna happen. A Dervish-ish profession might, but Dervish will not make a return unless ANet introduces Race-specific professions. And that is very unlikely, considering that they didn’t want to differ the races on anything but a cosmetic and conceptual level.

TheSwede.9512:

What all those people seem to turn a blind eye to is the fact that only the humans actually consider the Gods to be Gods in the sense of omnipotent beings that govern their lives.

Norn consider them spirits of action, Sylvari regard them as curiosities, Asura probably think of them as something to be studied and harnessed rather than venerated or worshipped and the Charr outright want them to come back to Tyria so they can stomp them to the curb once and for all.

Dervish is not gonna happen. A Dervish-ish profession might, but Dervish will not make a return unless ANet introduces Race-specific professions. And that is very unlikely, considering that they didn’t want to differ the races on anything but a cosmetic and conceptual level.

Youre wrong about this. I dont know if Dervish will come back, but the way the lore is going its directly opening up for things like the Dervish to appear. Theres no reason for it to be race specific, its literally making more sense that it doesnt have to be. Also the Humans dont see the gods as something that “govern” their lives, but the great beings that give them blessings. All the races acknowledge the power of the Gods, they just have different names/ideas about them. The Charr see them as Gods but think they can out power them, and the other views all the races have is completely irrelevant. The Dragons are the Big Dee in town now and all the races would use anything they can to win, even charr :: gasp :: siding with humans.

TheSwede.9512:

What all those people seem to turn a blind eye to is the fact that only the humans actually consider the Gods to be Gods in the sense of omnipotent beings that govern their lives.

Norn consider them spirits of action, Sylvari regard them as curiosities, Asura probably think of them as something to be studied and harnessed rather than venerated or worshipped and the Charr outright want them to come back to Tyria so they can stomp them to the curb once and for all.

Dervish is not gonna happen. A Dervish-ish profession might, but Dervish will not make a return unless ANet introduces Race-specific professions. And that is very unlikely, considering that they didn’t want to differ the races on anything but a cosmetic and conceptual level.

You don’t need to think of them as gods to see that they have power, asking powerful beings to aid you in combat doesn’t seem like an impossibility for any of the races.

can they do it? of course they can. it’s their game, they can do what they want. Will they? That’s an entirely different question

Shockwave.1230:

… Indirectly

ANet allows the player character to interact with magic related to the 6 gods, regardless of race, in the latest living story.

That’s 1 big barrier to the Dervish gone. Dervish hype train now for whenever we get to Elona. Choo choo

I had talked about this a bit in my thread on the new Reaper class.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/New-Soldier-Class-Reaper/first

TheSwede.9512:

What all those people seem to turn a blind eye to is the fact that only the humans actually consider the Gods to be Gods in the sense of omnipotent beings that govern their lives.

Norn consider them spirits of action, Sylvari regard them as curiosities, Asura probably think of them as something to be studied and harnessed rather than venerated or worshipped and the Charr outright want them to come back to Tyria so they can stomp them to the curb once and for all.

Dervish is not gonna happen. A Dervish-ish profession might, but Dervish will not make a return unless ANet introduces Race-specific professions. And that is very unlikely, considering that they didn’t want to differ the races on anything but a cosmetic and conceptual level.

You’re right.

They would instead bring back the Monk profession who prays not only to the 6 gods, but also to the Spirits, and has the power to tap into the Eternal Alchemy that respect the law of equivalent exchange.

The problem is, we’ve proof that we -don’t- need the Power of the Gods to kill the Dragons. Zhaitan was taken down by Pact Tech and Magic alone. Sure, it’d be a boon, but the Dervish won’t be coming back as it’s remembered. There will be no prayers, because Charr would never stoop so low as to pray to the human gods for power. Neither would Asura. Only Humans and possibly Norns would consider throwing these Gods/Spirits a prayer.

Even if there shows up a Profession based around “the power of the human Gods”, it won’t be the same as the Dervish in terms of Thematics. Perhaps a Channeler that simply draws upon their power from fragments of relics, using it as a mere tool or weapon, but certainly no Prayers would be involved.

TheSwede.9512:

The problem is, we’ve proof that we -don’t- need the Power of the Gods to kill the Dragons. Zhaitan was taken down by Pact Tech and Magic alone.

The flaw in that reasoning is that you can say the same thing for each existing profession.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

TheSwede.9512:

The problem is, we’ve proof that we -don’t- need the Power of the Gods to kill the Dragons. Zhaitan was taken down by Pact Tech and Magic alone.

The flaw in that reasoning is that you can say the same thing for each existing profession.

… except those existing professions … exist.

Obtena.7952:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

TheSwede.9512:

The problem is, we’ve proof that we -don’t- need the Power of the Gods to kill the Dragons. Zhaitan was taken down by Pact Tech and Magic alone.

The flaw in that reasoning is that you can say the same thing for each existing profession.

… except those existing professions … exist.

…but according to him/her, they too aren’t needed…

Personally, I’m tired of all the Dervish buzz/hype/fantasising, esp since I didn’t particularly like the class anyway.

I’d rather see improvements to the existing trait lines, whether by increasing the number of available traits, reworking a number of them to remove redundancies (that thief bundle one springs to mind), adding in a couple of new weapons, fixing skill bugs (Rush, Leap, Swoop I’m looking at you), making land spears/tridents a thing, etc

It’s overcomplicating things.

At heart, the powers of the dervish were essentially those of a melee earth/water* elementalist. All they’d really need to do is delete the overtly religious stuff like the avatars and make a profession with a similar style but secular.

*Technically it was ‘wind prayers’, but the general flavour of the skills were closer to what we now associate with water magic.

Dervish won’t return in the GW1 shape as the gods are only there for the humans, there other races generally don’t really believe in gods as gods.

I’m pretty sure that if humans can channel power from the gods, and norn from their Spirit beings, that where-ever those powers come from other races can draw power from that place as well, maybe in a more raw magic form rather than the physical forms the humans and norn give their sources.

First of all, I would love a Dervish profession! My class of choice in GW1. With that said, it may not happen, because the Dervish’s main weapon is a scythe. They can’t introduce this new class without creating new weapons sets for all professions. How could you have a necromancer without a scythe?

I shouldn’t say “can’t,” because they can. But will they?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Obtena.7952:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

TheSwede.9512:

The problem is, we’ve proof that we -don’t- need the Power of the Gods to kill the Dragons. Zhaitan was taken down by Pact Tech and Magic alone.

The flaw in that reasoning is that you can say the same thing for each existing profession.

… except those existing professions … exist.

…but according to him/her, they too aren’t needed…

Yes, but that’s not the crux of his point. The current professions cover the archetypes in the game already, if not with some overlap even. There is value in the argument that even though his logic applies for all professions, some already exist.

I don’t see anything getting added ‘just because’. I would like to think that things are added to the game based on stronger premise other than the lore saying it’s OK to add it.

Obtena.7952:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Obtena.7952:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

TheSwede.9512:

The problem is, we’ve proof that we -don’t- need the Power of the Gods to kill the Dragons. Zhaitan was taken down by Pact Tech and Magic alone.

The flaw in that reasoning is that you can say the same thing for each existing profession.

… except those existing professions … exist.

…but according to him/her, they too aren’t needed…

Yes, but that’s not the crux of his point. The current professions cover the archetypes in the game already, if not with some overlap even. There is value in the argument that even though his logic applies for all professions, some already exist.

I don’t see anything getting added ‘just because’. I would like to think that things are added to the game based on stronger premise other than the lore saying it’s OK to add it.

I don’t know about that. But if you play a character through the Priory path, you’d experience the power of Balthasar.

The way I see it, a Dervish can be wielding a 2H Spear instead of scythe as it’s main weapon — no weapon swapping, same limitation as Eng. Then it can equip utility skills that calls each God/Spirit then it embodies that deity similar to the Priory path defending Lion’s Arch.

Obtena.7952:

I don’t see anything getting added ‘just because’. I would like to think that things are added to the game based on stronger premise other than the lore saying it’s OK to add it.

That’s pretty much it. ArenaNet stated a long time ago that their intent was to try to cover all playstyles that fit into GW2’s philosophy (so no red-bar-watching healbots) in the initial release, and then wouldn’t be producing new professions just because.

And I think they’ve pretty much done this. Warriors are covered by warriors, although some builds incorporating secondaries are better represented by guardians. Pet rangers by rangers, petless rangers by ranged thieves and warriors, depending on build. Eles are eles, mesmers are mesmers, necromancers are necromancers unless you’re thinking of orders necroes, which have somewhat been replaced by might stackers in general.

Assassins are basically thieves. Ritualists always were a means of shoehorning an engineeresque playstyle into a setting that lacked the technology for real engineers, although the flavour is obviously quite different. Paragons are essentially ranged Warriors and Guardians – a lot of the intricacies of the GW1 profession are gone, but that’s because of structural differences in how the two games work. The dervish playstyle – of building up with some skills before stripping them off in order to throw others – is one that isn’t currently in the game, and that I think could be. There are a bunch of skills and mechanics that do similar things, spread out among the professions, but the closest thing to making a playstyle out of it is shatter mesmers, but I don’t think anyone really thinks those are equivalent.

Now, it might be that from the general perspective, this distinction is not enough to make a difference – there are plenty of ritualist players who feel there is enough distinction from the engineer to make a seperate profession out of, after all – but my overall feeling in GW2 is that the professions that I notice as missing the most are the classic keep-redbars-up monk (obviously not a part of GW2’s design) and the dervish (which, IMO, could be translated into GW2). That said, I doubt any hypothetical return of the dervish playstyle is going to be have the same flavour to it.

Still, either way, there does need to be a better reason to add a new profession than ‘because we can’.