Guild Wars 2

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Because the bulk of SPs will come from levels, the importance of skill challenges has been downplayed, so alt characters won’t need to do something crazy like 100% world completion to get the full legacy set. This softens the problem, and might have been the best solution they have found.

It’s 25% (more to unlock elite specializations) of the world map; that may not sound much, but multiplied with my 17 affected alts, it is a major pain in the butt.

If you are leveling a character normally, 25% should be a given. I used tons of tomes on my mesmer and still have over 30%. So much unwarranted fear. I can’t believe people are getting so worked up about this. They said it will be about 465 hero points to max out a character and 400 of them come from just hitting 80. So every character you have at 80 will have the bulk of their points already taken care of. Chances are we will have most characters with max hero points on day one and tons of the new currency from all the extra points.

i kind off remember Jon Peters said that characters already with map completion will have tones of hero points. so they may be retrospective….

or perhaps, if you already unlocked a certain skill challenge on a map, the hero point associated with that skill challenge will be rewarded to you automatically.

Ralanost.8913:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Because the bulk of SPs will come from levels, the importance of skill challenges has been downplayed, so alt characters won’t need to do something crazy like 100% world completion to get the full legacy set. This softens the problem, and might have been the best solution they have found.

It’s 25% (more to unlock elite specializations) of the world map; that may not sound much, but multiplied with my 17 affected alts, it is a major pain in the butt.

If you are leveling a character normally, 25% should be a given. I used tons of tomes on my mesmer and still have over 30%. So much unwarranted fear. I can’t believe people are getting so worked up about this. They said it will be about 465 hero points to max out a character and 400 of them come from just hitting 80. So every character you have at 80 will have the bulk of their points already taken care of. Chances are we will have most characters with max hero points on day one and tons of the new currency from all the extra points.

I have 1 level 80 character with 189 skill challenges,
2 Level 80s that I levelled to around 60 in pve, with 30 or so.
1 Level 80 with 0 skill challenges
One level 47 with 6 skill challenges
and 3 level 20 somethings with between 0-10 each.

It’s hardly something that you easily get.

Eponet.4829:

Ralanost.8913:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Because the bulk of SPs will come from levels, the importance of skill challenges has been downplayed, so alt characters won’t need to do something crazy like 100% world completion to get the full legacy set. This softens the problem, and might have been the best solution they have found.

It’s 25% (more to unlock elite specializations) of the world map; that may not sound much, but multiplied with my 17 affected alts, it is a major pain in the butt.

If you are leveling a character normally, 25% should be a given. I used tons of tomes on my mesmer and still have over 30%. So much unwarranted fear. I can’t believe people are getting so worked up about this. They said it will be about 465 hero points to max out a character and 400 of them come from just hitting 80. So every character you have at 80 will have the bulk of their points already taken care of. Chances are we will have most characters with max hero points on day one and tons of the new currency from all the extra points.

I have 1 level 80 character with 189 skill challenges,
2 Level 80s that I levelled to around 60 in pve, with 30 or so.
1 Level 80 with 0 skill challenges
One level 47 with 6 skill challenges
and 3 level 20 somethings with between 0-10 each.

It’s hardly something that you easily get.

Characters that aren’t max level don’t count. You will unlock stuff as you level, just like any other game. Do you not have any skill scrolls sitting in your bank? Even so, with the 80 that has done zero skill challenges, do you not have extra skill points from levels past 80? Even if you don’t, you will be able to unlock almost everything with just being 80. Are you honestly trying to complain about those last 65 points? That is super petty. Whatever builds you want, that 400 points will get it for you. If you are a completionist, get to leveling. There is still PLENTY of time before HoT goes live.

Its unfair if vets have to start from scratch, cheap way of adding filler content and buying dev time

nacario.9417:

Its unfair if vets have to start from scratch, cheap way of adding filler content and buying dev time

vets wont have to start from scratch, only people who havent done skill challenges will be behind, and every level 80 can unlock a large portion of all the skills/traits/etc without doing a skill challenge

honestly, i dont think their intention is to undo player work.

They dont really get anything out of it.

the system in place had problems though. They always intended skill challenges to be the most effecient method for getting skills, but they overshot it with skill point scrolls/bags/tomes.

I think the main intent for those things was supposed to be after you level, it turns into a means of progressing towards legendaries, special skins, special items/conversions etc.

you arent really supposed to have level 80 charachters who are max everything without setting foot in the world.

the main problem is this also eliminates the less effecient means of achieving the same thing. Sure it may have taken you long to get a skill point from leveling, but it was possible.

I really think the best solution is teleporter consumables, that go to skill points in the zone, you could get them from doing content like WvW ranks, spvp tracks.
only thing is they should be soul bound, and npc able for a decent amount of silver Only usable for CORE skill challenges.

problem is, how to give them to old charachters, not every level 80 has all traits and skills unlocked. It doesnt seem like it would be that simple to adapt the old and the new systems, aside from fully unlocked players.

Ralanost.8913:

If you are leveling a character normally, 25% should be a given.

Yes, if. But we (in this thread) didn’t.

I do all PvE/story on my main, but leveld all my alts (7 level 80s) in PvP which drops both tomes AND skill scrolls.

And players who have leveled all their alts, or even all their characters full stop, in WvW are just as screwed.

Ralanost.8913:

Eponet.4829:

Ralanost.8913:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Because the bulk of SPs will come from levels, the importance of skill challenges has been downplayed, so alt characters won’t need to do something crazy like 100% world completion to get the full legacy set. This softens the problem, and might have been the best solution they have found.

It’s 25% (more to unlock elite specializations) of the world map; that may not sound much, but multiplied with my 17 affected alts, it is a major pain in the butt.

If you are leveling a character normally, 25% should be a given. I used tons of tomes on my mesmer and still have over 30%. So much unwarranted fear. I can’t believe people are getting so worked up about this. They said it will be about 465 hero points to max out a character and 400 of them come from just hitting 80. So every character you have at 80 will have the bulk of their points already taken care of. Chances are we will have most characters with max hero points on day one and tons of the new currency from all the extra points.

I have 1 level 80 character with 189 skill challenges,
2 Level 80s that I levelled to around 60 in pve, with 30 or so.
1 Level 80 with 0 skill challenges
One level 47 with 6 skill challenges
and 3 level 20 somethings with between 0-10 each.

It’s hardly something that you easily get.

Characters that aren’t max level don’t count. You will unlock stuff as you level, just like any other game. Do you not have any skill scrolls sitting in your bank? Even so, with the 80 that has done zero skill challenges, do you not have extra skill points from levels past 80? Even if you don’t, you will be able to unlock almost everything with just being 80. Are you honestly trying to complain about those last 65 points? That is super petty. Whatever builds you want, that 400 points will get it for you. If you are a completionist, get to leveling. There is still PLENTY of time before HoT goes live.

Yes, I’m complaining about having to do a third of world completion on every character just to get access to the traits alone. 65 points doesn’t sound like much, when listed against the 465 that it requires, but that’s deceptive. It’s almost a third of the skill points in world completion.

I thought it would be easy too after hearing that, then noticed that I had four maps completed on my elementalist and still only had 30 or so points.

Yes, I do have skill point scrolls in my bank. Not that many, but some. I’ve been using them to unlock traits. No, they specifically have stated that those scrolls aren’t going to give hero points. So, that’s no use to my characters whatsoever.

Additionally, it doesn’t matter when HoT releases, what matters is that we’re being forced into doing repetetive PvE content with every single character, just to compete with other players.

Ascended gear already favours PvE players who decide to give WvW a try over primary WvW players, but at least at the moment we’re getting skill points and gold to unlock traits/buy the materials to make ascended gear.

Under the new system, you’re forced into collecting a third of the skill point challenged required for world completion just to maintain basic functionality and experiment. This isn’t even including the assumed cost that elite specialisations are going to have.

It’s hardly petty to be irritated that the origional promise of “Play how you want and get rewarded for it” that they sold the game under was broken. If they had instead said that I was going to be put on a strict checklist grind that required me play through boring, repetitive tasks just so that I could maintain mechanical parity with other players, I wouldn’t have bought it in the first place.

This has been the only MMO that I’ve been able to tolerate, precisely due to the lack of mechanical grind. I have nothing against consmetic grind, but when there’s only one specific way to access game mechanics, I am going to complain that there should be a way to access it people who choose playstyles other than map completion.

To put it in perspective, it would be like giving legendary weapons significantly better stats than ascended weapons do, removing the mystic clover recipe and the box of legendary crafting materials, and just making the legendary weapons purchasable for 130 mystic clovers. Another 180 or so if you want the infusion slot.

I have 7 alts with less than 20% map completion all with less than 10 skill challenges completed who I lvled in dungeons spvp and w3 so yes I think having to collect kitten skill points is abit unfair

Eponet.4829:

To put it in perspective, it would be like giving legendary weapons significantly better stats than ascended weapons do, removing the mystic clover recipe and the box of legendary crafting materials, and just making the legendary weapons purchasable for 130 mystic clovers. Another 180 or so if you want the infusion slot.

I’d grind the hell out of PvP reward tracks.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Ralanost.8913:

If you are leveling a character normally, 25% should be a given.

Yes, if. But we (in this thread) didn’t.

I do all PvE/story on my main, but leveld all my alts (7 level 80s) in PvP which drops both tomes AND skill scrolls.

And players who have leveled all their alts, or even all their characters full stop, in WvW are just as screwed.

What are you talking about? Skill scrolls will still work. You even said yourself that pvp drops them like crazy. What are you worried about?

Ralanost.8913:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Ralanost.8913:

If you are leveling a character normally, 25% should be a given.

Yes, if. But we (in this thread) didn’t.

I do all PvE/story on my main, but leveld all my alts (7 level 80s) in PvP which drops both tomes AND skill scrolls.

And players who have leveled all their alts, or even all their characters full stop, in WvW are just as screwed.

What are you talking about? Skill scrolls will still work. You even said yourself that pvp drops them like crazy. What are you worried about?

They specifically stated that when the new system is implemented, skill scrolls and skill points will be converted into materials for the mystic forge instead of into hero points.

Eponet.4829:

Ralanost.8913:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Ralanost.8913:

If you are leveling a character normally, 25% should be a given.

Yes, if. But we (in this thread) didn’t.

I do all PvE/story on my main, but leveld all my alts (7 level 80s) in PvP which drops both tomes AND skill scrolls.

And players who have leveled all their alts, or even all their characters full stop, in WvW are just as screwed.

What are you talking about? Skill scrolls will still work. You even said yourself that pvp drops them like crazy. What are you worried about?

They specifically stated that when the new system is implemented, skill scrolls and skill points will be converted into materials for the mystic forge instead of into hero points.

Must have missed that. Even so, you have the scrolls now, right? Make sure you use them on the characters that need the extra points now. We still have months before the expansion hits. You can’t claim you won’t be prepared.

Ralanost.8913:

Eponet.4829:

Ralanost.8913:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Ralanost.8913:

If you are leveling a character normally, 25% should be a given.

Yes, if. But we (in this thread) didn’t.

I do all PvE/story on my main, but leveld all my alts (7 level 80s) in PvP which drops both tomes AND skill scrolls.

And players who have leveled all their alts, or even all their characters full stop, in WvW are just as screwed.

What are you talking about? Skill scrolls will still work. You even said yourself that pvp drops them like crazy. What are you worried about?

They specifically stated that when the new system is implemented, skill scrolls and skill points will be converted into materials for the mystic forge instead of into hero points.

Must have missed that. Even so, you have the scrolls now, right? Make sure you use them on the characters that need the extra points now. We still have months before the expansion hits. You can’t claim you won’t be prepared.

We also have no word that we’ll be able to retain our traits and skills that have already been unlocked. For all we know at present, it would just result in wasting gold and mystic forge materials. If they said otherwise, please do tell.

I don’t really understand the confusion. Perhaps I am missing something. you’ll get 400 points for being level 80 and 1 point per skill (hero) challenge you’ve completed.

KOPPER.1458:

I don’t really understand the confusion. Perhaps I am missing something. you’ll get 400 points for being level 80 and 1 point per skill (hero) challenge you’ve completed.

A small minority of people chose to grind/craft/tomes to level and as a result, has 0 skill challenges completed. Now they’re upset that they’re required to complete 65 skill challenges to unlock all core skills and traits, even though the base 400 points is enough to unlock everything they plan on using. They feel that since they have already unlocked these core traits/skills, they should be automatically unlocked in the new system. However, if ArenaNet did that, these people would have -65 hero points and be forced to do skill challenges anyways, assuming they want the new specializations.

Just wait until even more specializations are released and eventually 100% of skill challenges in the world are needed.

While I understand the general sense of concern here, I have to wonder from which it stems precisely. Thus far, Anet’s track record has been to “grandfather in” existing 80s for these types of changes. Low level alts might get a little shafted, but we’ll see. Maybe I missed a red post or a blog somewhere stating that the slate will be wiped completely clean on all of us?

azizul.8469:

i kind off remember Jon Peters said that characters already with map completion will have tones of hero points. so they may be retrospective….

or perhaps, if you already unlocked a certain skill challenge on a map, the hero point associated with that skill challenge will be rewarded to you automatically.

That’s what I thought. The skill challenges are being changed to hero challenges, so surely if you have done the skill challenge you will have automatially done the equivalent hero challenge, and therefore gained the hero point for it?

I also assume that hero challenges will be part of world complete, instead of skill challenges, so it seems logical that characters that have world complete will gain all available hero points. That said, it wouldn’t hurt if a dev could confirm this.

I have 12 geared level 80’s capable of running multiple builds, with an average map completion of about 4% (leveled in WvW and using scrolls & gold to unlock traits), with over 5700 hours of play time across them all.

How much extra work am I going to have to do under the new system to make each one of those characters equal to what they are now?

obastable.5231:

I have 12 geared level 80’s capable of running multiple builds, with an average map completion of about 4% (leveled in WvW and using scrolls & gold to unlock traits), with over 5700 hours of play time across them all.

How much extra work am I going to have to do under the new system to make each one of those characters equal to what they are now?

heres the question, have they unlocked every trait and skill?

the 465 is what is required for a FULL unlock.

OK, seriously.

Worst case scenario here is that my now 400 out of 465 skill point characters I’ve leveled purely on scrolls or crafting will now have to spend, I dunno, maybe 3 hours tops? wandering around the landscape in their full exotic gear and their main spec that they’ll casually be able to afford with those 400 points, blow up some heroic challenges (many of which are no more complicated than port to nearest way point, walk over, and wave your hand at the shiny for 3 seconds…), and call it good until the next major revamp.

And heck, the second and third and fifth and fourteenth of my 80s will each do it that much faster as I nail down a speed-loop.

I have 19 character slots and this is still a footnote.

If you’re really feeling threatened, go start now. You have months to get ahead of this still.

obastable.5231:

How much extra work am I going to have to do under the new system to make each one of those characters equal to what they are now?

If you only unlock what you need, you will be able to unlock everything you actually plan on using under the new system without doing anything extra. If you want to unlock everything however, you will need to have 65 skill challenges completed, which will probably take 2-3 hours or running around. You have around 3 months to casually do this, assuming a late summer release.

If you further want to have enough hero points to unlock the elite specialization, you will need to complete an additional ~85 skill challenges.

To get a better idea of what you might be missing if you choose to not complete 65 skill challenges, each skill, minor or major trait is worth 5 points. 65 points would be worth 13 unlocks. A single trait line for example is 12 unlocks (60 points).

Nike.2631:

OK, seriously.

Worst case scenario here is that my now 400 out of 465 skill point characters I’ve leveled purely on scrolls or crafting will now have to spend, I dunno, maybe 3 hours tops? wandering around the landscape in their full exotic gear and their main spec that they’ll casually be able to afford with those 400 points, blow up some heroic challenges (many of which are no more complicated than port to nearest way point, walk over, and wave your hand at the shiny for 3 seconds…), and call it good until the next major revamp.

And heck, the second and third and fifth and fourteenth of my 80s will each do it that much faster as I nail down a speed-loop.

I have 19 character slots and this is still a footnote.

If you’re really feeling threatened, go start now. You have months to get ahead of this still.

zomg, thank you! We’re not getting this info two weeks in advance. We have plenty of time to trot around the map and tap a few challenges. And that’s assuming each of our alts absolutely, desperately needs every spec and option available to them.

Extra benefit: those extra skill points you get for doing hero challenges will probably get turned into whatever currency shows up for later, so it’s not even a ‘total waste.’

I do not believe you will unlearn skills. It will be a monumental task for ANET that does nothing but, adds to player frustration. They may simply disable the hero points accumulation for the players who already have all the skillpoints necessary. Hence, doing the hero-points challenge on those toon will just net karma and exp and no additional skill points/hero points.

Nike.2631:

If you’re really feeling threatened, go start now. You have months to get ahead of this still.

How is the timing relevant? I feel threatened because I might be required to spend almost a thousand dollars worth of time performing activities that I don’t enjoy if I want to gain my core specialisations and skills, that value only growing with each new update.

Whether I can spend that time now, or later is irrelevant.

Really the only people that should even remotely complain are 100% pure WvW players. Anybody else should either be set, or just play what you normally play to get compensated.

PvP – no concern as all traits and skills are automatically unlocked

PvE – level 80 gives you 400 points, and you only need 65 more for everything. Since you play PvE, you would have had to actively avoid skill challenges not to have 65. If this is the case then fine, play what you like, PvE, and you bump into those skill challenges naturally

WvW – level 80 gives you 400 points. However WvW only has 13 skill challenges so you’ll need to go into PvE to get 52 skill challenges (which is rather easy though). That said, you likely only have 1 or 2 builds per level 80 toon so the 413 points you have should be more than enough for you to have the same (or similar) build if you are adamantly opposed to a little PvE

Frankly, I don’t see any real issue with this setup considering the level of overhaul they are doing on traits and the hoops they’d have to jump through just to try to implement many of these suggestions. And for those comparing this to the last trait overhaul, it doesn’t work that way. Last time they really only changed acquisition methods, they didn’t do a complete redo of the functionality of unlocking, GUI, restrictions, and point system.

The last thing I want to say is this, just relax.

It is unacceptable for ArenaNet to relock things on characters that have already unlocked them just because they invent yet another new system to do so.

Sixty five skill challenges is a significant number. A third of the challenges in the game is a lot of running across zones to unlock what I already have unlocked. Yes, I can casually spend the next few months doing so, but the point is that I shouldn’t have to!

For those that say the 400 from leveling will be sufficient for whatever build we need, because there are skills we don’t, you are missing the fact that unlocks now happen down linear tracks. We will most assuredly need to unlock skills we aren’t planning on using because they appear earlier in the track just to get to the skills we do plan on using.

Yes, there is a work around for this poor decision. That doesn’t mean it’s not a poor decision to make players go back and unlock things that have already been unlocked.

If a game company wants players to stick around earning new things for their characters, they better not pull the rug out from under them by resetting their progress and making them earn the same thing over again. Especially if they are not sitting on huge piles of excess player good will.

Healix.5819:

A small minority of people chose to grind/craft/tomes to level and as a result, has 0 skill challenges completed. Now they’re upset that they’re required to complete 65 skill challenges to unlock all core skills and traits, even though the base 400 points is enough to unlock everything they plan on using. They feel that since they have already unlocked these core traits/skills, they should be automatically unlocked in the new system.

I think you’re understating the numbers, the majority of WvW and PvP players with alts would in all probability have unlocked traits and abilities via scrolls and gold. We have legitimately earned the right to unlock those traits under the system in place therefore we certainly will be extremely upset if what we have done to earn those unlocks is swept aside.

morrolan.9608:

Healix.5819:

A small minority of people chose to grind/craft/tomes to level and as a result, has 0 skill challenges completed. Now they’re upset that they’re required to complete 65 skill challenges to unlock all core skills and traits, even though the base 400 points is enough to unlock everything they plan on using. They feel that since they have already unlocked these core traits/skills, they should be automatically unlocked in the new system.

I think you’re understating the numbers, the majority of WvW and PvP players with alts would in all probability have unlocked traits and abilities via scrolls and gold. We have legitimately earned the right to unlock those traits under the system in place therefore we certainly will be extremely upset if what we have done to earn those unlocks is swept aside.

This is the concern. That work completed will be invalidated.

I was going to say to trust the devs because what you say goes against their philosophy, but then I remembered that most of my work on my main didn’t count for squat in the system we have now. Then I got mad and logged off to play another game.

I can see them locking out the elites especially if they aren’t the old ones ie they have been significantly changed to a degree that’s severely improved them. Anything that hasn’t been changed or improved or added new to such a degree that it’s basically a new skill/trait should not be locked out. Anything that they are removing should give us an extra slot unlock/point however the new system will work.

That would be how I’d handle it that way it’s fair because we’ve all spent the time leveling and getting the old traits but we should still want to progress through whatever would be new in the expansion to enjoy getting a new skill.

If you don’t want to do map completion, that’s not Anet’s fault.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

If you don’t want to do map completion, that’s not Anet’s fault.

“it was not the developer’s fault that the game bombed. It was the players that didn’t want to play it.”
Uhm… nope, it doesn’t work like that.

Its not even map completion. Just go to low level maps and run to each skill challenge. Doesnt take anywhere near as much time and effort as fully completing each map. Plus its only 65 skill points. Thats about 5 maps where you just run from skill challenge to skill challenge and ignore everything else. Oh look theres 5 starter maps. Problem solved. Chances are you will have enough just from being 80 to complete your builds. Its only an issue if you want everything including the traits and skills you never use. But then its such a minor effort to get those remaining hero points. :P

The only issue i have with this is i spent a load of gold on buying all the traits for all my alts a few weeks ago. I dont really care that my skillpoints were wasted. The gold however amounted to quite a lot. Which i am a little peeved about.

spoj.9672:

Its not even map completion. Just go to low level maps and run to each skill challenge. Doesnt take anywhere near as much time and effort as fully completing each map. Plus its only 65 skill points. Thats about 5 maps where you just run from skill challenge to skill challenge and ignore everything else. Oh look theres 5 starter maps. Problem solved. Chances are you will have enough just from being 80 to complete your builds. Its only an issue if you want everything including the traits and skills you never use. But then its such a minor effort to get those remaining hero points. :P

The only issue i have with this is i spent a load of gold on buying all the traits for all my alts a few weeks ago. I dont really care that my skillpoints were wasted. The gold however amounted to quite a lot. Which i am a little peeved about.

Actually there are only about 6-8 skill points in each of the starter zones, and only 7 on average in none Orr zones, that means 9-10 zones, not 5!

spoj.9672:

Plus its only 65 skill points.

Is that account wide? If not, then it’s 65 skill points per character. I have 14 level 80s, of which only 2 have world completion. So that’s 12 level 80s without world completion.

12 × 65 = aw hell no.

Tachenon.5270:

spoj.9672:

Plus its only 65 skill points.

Is that account wide? If not, then it’s 65 skill points per character. I have 14 level 80s, of which only 2 have world completion. So that’s 12 level 80s without world completion.

12 × 65 = aw hell no.

add this to my post and you get 12 × 65 × 9-10 = WELL kitten THAT!

Hyper Cutter.9376:

If you don’t want to do map completion, that’s not Anet’s fault.

My main has full map completion and was not given credit for the elites when the latest system went in. He still doesn’t have them because I don’t feel like doing that content again on that toon and they aren’t worth the 3 gold, etc.

Don’t fool yourself. The devs will gladly throw all your work away and make you do it again. Especially if they can find a way to make you pay real dollars for it. It’s all about the cash now. They don’t care about the players.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

If you don’t want to do map completion, that’s not Anet’s fault.

I don’t mind doing skill challenges to unlock stuff I don’t already have.

Removing progression I’ve already earned, however, and making me earn it all over again is unacceptable.

spoj.9672:

Its only an issue if you want everything including the traits and skills you never use.

This keeps being thrown about, and it is very misguided.

The new unlock tracks are linear. That means the skill you want to use may be the very last skill to unlock of its type. To get the grandmaster traits unlocked in a specialization, you’ll be unlocking all of the adept and master traits along the way.

I will guarantee you that you will be spending points on skills and traits that you never use.

Gibson.4036:

spoj.9672:

Its only an issue if you want everything including the traits and skills you never use.

This keeps being thrown about, and it is very misguided.

The new unlock tracks are linear. That means the skill you want to use may be the very last skill to unlock of its type. To get the grandmaster traits unlocked in a specialization, you’ll be unlocking all of the adept and master traits along the way.

I will guarantee you that you will be spending points on skills and traits that you never use.

yes, but will you be spending enough that you need to get skill points?

one spec is 60 points, there are many people have never even experimented with certain lines.
skill wise, 25-30 points, i know thieves for example who never want to touch a trap.

now, i personally would want all skills eventually, but skill challenges is far from a bad way to earn skills. It was meant to be the fastest way, but they messed that up with the champ bags.

i do understand where you are coming from though. I just dont see too many simple solutions.
perhaps they will change the system.

phys.7689:

Gibson.4036:

spoj.9672:

Its only an issue if you want everything including the traits and skills you never use.

This keeps being thrown about, and it is very misguided.

The new unlock tracks are linear. That means the skill you want to use may be the very last skill to unlock of its type. To get the grandmaster traits unlocked in a specialization, you’ll be unlocking all of the adept and master traits along the way.

I will guarantee you that you will be spending points on skills and traits that you never use.

yes, but will you be spending enough that you need to get skill points?

one spec is 60 points, there are many people have never even experimented with certain lines.
skill wise, 25-30 points, i know thieves for example who never want to touch a trap.

now, i personally would want all skills eventually, but skill challenges is far from a bad way to earn skills. It was meant to be the fastest way, but they messed that up with the champ bags.

i do understand where you are coming from though. I just dont see too many simple solutions.
perhaps they will change the system.

Honestly I think if they set it up to give you any skill points in excess of the 65 you need as the currency and just decreased the drop rates of skill point scrolls across the board then that could give it a good compromise.

EXAMPLES:
1. characters with 65+ hero challenges get all 65 hero points they need for core specs, and any over 65 get you extra “skill point currency” and any skill point in their skills panel, as well as any future hero challenges in the “Core” zones, also become this “skill point currency”

2. characters with <65 hero challenges complete get as many hero points as they have challenges complete, then get more hero points from their skill point in their skills panel until they have 65 hero points, any excess skill points, in addition to any future hero challenges in the “Core” zones, get turned into “skill point currency”

3. characters with no hero challenges complete have their skill points turned into up to 65 hero points, and any excess skill points, in addition to any future hero challenges in the “Core” zones, get turned into “skill point currency”

The only problem i could foresee from this is earning Hero Points for future specs, like the elite specs, which could honestly be solved by making Hero Challenges in the expansion all award the hero points needed for the new specs.

commnagrom.8637:

phys.7689:

Gibson.4036:

spoj.9672:

Its only an issue if you want everything including the traits and skills you never use.

This keeps being thrown about, and it is very misguided.

The new unlock tracks are linear. That means the skill you want to use may be the very last skill to unlock of its type. To get the grandmaster traits unlocked in a specialization, you’ll be unlocking all of the adept and master traits along the way.

I will guarantee you that you will be spending points on skills and traits that you never use.

yes, but will you be spending enough that you need to get skill points?

one spec is 60 points, there are many people have never even experimented with certain lines.
skill wise, 25-30 points, i know thieves for example who never want to touch a trap.

now, i personally would want all skills eventually, but skill challenges is far from a bad way to earn skills. It was meant to be the fastest way, but they messed that up with the champ bags.

i do understand where you are coming from though. I just dont see too many simple solutions.
perhaps they will change the system.

Honestly I think if they set it up to give you any skill points in excess of the 65 you need as the currency and just decreased the drop rates of skill point scrolls across the board then that could give it a good compromise.

EXAMPLES:
1. characters with 65+ hero challenges get all 65 hero points they need for core specs, and any over 65 get you extra “skill point currency” and any skill point in their skills panel, as well as any future hero challenges in the “Core” zones, also become this “skill point currency”

2. characters with <65 hero challenges complete get as many hero points as they have challenges complete, then get more hero points from their skill point in their skills panel until they have 65 hero points, any excess skill points, in addition to any future hero challenges in the “Core” zones, get turned into “skill point currency”

3. characters with no hero challenges complete have their skill points turned into up to 65 hero points, and any excess skill points, in addition to any future hero challenges in the “Core” zones, get turned into “skill point currency”

The only problem i could foresee from this is earning Hero Points for future specs, like the elite specs, which could honestly be solved by making Hero Challenges in the expansion all award the hero points needed for the new specs.

they want to have a finite supply of hero points. and a fixed amount as max for everyone, that changes effortlessly as they add content.

also, your system assumes everyone has all skills/traits unlocked already and need it back.
many people have odd combinations of traits and skills missing.

phys.7689:

commnagrom.8637:

phys.7689:

Gibson.4036:

spoj.9672:

Its only an issue if you want everything including the traits and skills you never use.

This keeps being thrown about, and it is very misguided.

The new unlock tracks are linear. That means the skill you want to use may be the very last skill to unlock of its type. To get the grandmaster traits unlocked in a specialization, you’ll be unlocking all of the adept and master traits along the way.

I will guarantee you that you will be spending points on skills and traits that you never use.

yes, but will you be spending enough that you need to get skill points?

one spec is 60 points, there are many people have never even experimented with certain lines.
skill wise, 25-30 points, i know thieves for example who never want to touch a trap.

now, i personally would want all skills eventually, but skill challenges is far from a bad way to earn skills. It was meant to be the fastest way, but they messed that up with the champ bags.

i do understand where you are coming from though. I just dont see too many simple solutions.
perhaps they will change the system.

Honestly I think if they set it up to give you any skill points in excess of the 65 you need as the currency and just decreased the drop rates of skill point scrolls across the board then that could give it a good compromise.

EXAMPLES:
1. characters with 65+ hero challenges get all 65 hero points they need for core specs, and any over 65 get you extra “skill point currency” and any skill point in their skills panel, as well as any future hero challenges in the “Core” zones, also become this “skill point currency”

2. characters with <65 hero challenges complete get as many hero points as they have challenges complete, then get more hero points from their skill point in their skills panel until they have 65 hero points, any excess skill points, in addition to any future hero challenges in the “Core” zones, get turned into “skill point currency”

3. characters with no hero challenges complete have their skill points turned into up to 65 hero points, and any excess skill points, in addition to any future hero challenges in the “Core” zones, get turned into “skill point currency”

The only problem i could foresee from this is earning Hero Points for future specs, like the elite specs, which could honestly be solved by making Hero Challenges in the expansion all award the hero points needed for the new specs.

they want to have a finite supply of hero points. and a fixed amount as max for everyone, that changes effortlessly as they add content.

also, your system assumes everyone has all skills/traits unlocked already and need it back.
many people have odd combinations of traits and skills missing.

true but it also doesn’t punish people for having unlocked everything without doing 65 hero challenges

Astralporing.1957:

They said in the original statement, that the number of hero points will be capped to how many you’d be able to get through levelling and skill challenges, that the currently posessed skill points will be converted into hero points (at a rate they haven’t revealed yet) up to a cap, and those that will exceed that cap will be converted into some kind of crafting currency. Unknown what will happen to the skill points you have already spent on skill/trait unlocking though.

So no, nobody’s going to end up with more points due to doubling challenges.

This was my understanding, as well.

“Old skill points in excess of those earned by leveling and skill challenges will be converted into crafting materials for the Mystic Forge,” sayeth Part II of their blog posts.

Which I take to mean that if you have less skill points than leveling and skill challenges allow, they are converted into the new hero points system. Nowhere does it say these liminal skill points must have come purely from skill challenges to convert to hero points.

HOWEVER, I am rewatching the Ready Up and ~13mins in, Jon speaks specifically about completing 65 skill challenges. I took that to be a worst case scenario for, like, a recently purchased account with little access to sp scrolls. So, I can see why people are confused and I think some solid dev clarification would be nice.

kimeekat.2548:

Astralporing.1957:

They said in the original statement, that the number of hero points will be capped to how many you’d be able to get through levelling and skill challenges, that the currently posessed skill points will be converted into hero points (at a rate they haven’t revealed yet) up to a cap, and those that will exceed that cap will be converted into some kind of crafting currency. Unknown what will happen to the skill points you have already spent on skill/trait unlocking though.

So no, nobody’s going to end up with more points due to doubling challenges.

This was my understanding, as well.

“Old skill points in excess of those earned by leveling and skill challenges will be converted into crafting materials for the Mystic Forge,” sayeth Part II of their blog posts.

Which I take to mean that if you have less skill points than leveling and skill challenges allow, they are converted into the new hero points system. Nowhere does it say these liminal skill points must have come purely from skill challenges to convert to hero points.

HOWEVER, I am rewatching the Ready Up and ~13mins in, Jon speaks specifically about completing 65 skill challenges. I took that to be a worst case scenario for, like, a recently purchased account with little access to sp scrolls. So, I can see why people are confused and I think some solid dev clarification would be nice.

Yeah thats why i’m trying to get our thread more attention, we NEED to know from the devs what the plan is, and if they are planning what we think then they need to know that we are unhappy about these “roll-backs”

Seems to me it would take very little effort for the devs to allay — or confirm — the concerns expressed here and in similar threads. It would be a constructive and positive thing to do. Why hasn’t it been done?

kimeekat.2548:

“Old skill points in excess of those earned by leveling and skill challenges will be converted into crafting materials for the Mystic Forge,” sayeth Part II of their blog posts.

First, let’s categorize skill points. There are two types, ones that were legitimately earned and those that were farmed. Legitimate skill points were those that were earned while leveling (not to be confused with gaining XP at 80) and those obtained through skill challenges. Farmed skill points include everything else, which were originally only gained by gaining XP at 80, then later, skill scrolls. The new system is simply returning to the original system, minus skill points for leveling at 80.

What the above is saying is that farmed skill points will be converted into a mystic forge currency whereas legitimate skill points are being converted into hero points.

“Old skill points in excess of those earned [legitimately] will be converted into crafting materials…”

Get it? “in excess of those earned [legitimately]” means those that were farmed.

The new system is quite simple.

kimeekat.2548:

HOWEVER, I am rewatching the Ready Up and ~13mins in, Jon speaks specifically about completing 65 skill challenges. I took that to be a worst case scenario for, like, a recently purchased account with little access to sp scrolls.

That was correct. You will need 65 skill challenges completed and be level 80 to have all 465 points required for the core specializations. The assumption however is that 1 skill challenge = 1 hero point, when perhaps level 80 skill challenges might be worth more. I suspect that moving forward, that’s how they’ll balance it, for example, with HoT skill challenges awarding the most. Eventually there’ll come a point where you’ll have to play the new areas to get enough points to unlock the new specialization – that’s what they want.

Under the new system, skill point scrolls will award 1 mystic forge currency instead.

Tachenon.5270:

Seems to me it would take very little effort for the devs to allay — or confirm — the concerns expressed here and in similar threads.?

Ask tomorrow’s PoI stream.

What purpose does it serve to make people wait for this information? One paragraph. A couple of sentences. Five minutes. Positive and constructive. You know, like how they say we should be.

Goose, gander.

Why not provide an answer to this today? What excuse is there for not doing so?

Tachenon.5270:

Seems to me it would take very little effort for the devs to allay — or confirm — the concerns expressed here and in similar threads. It would be a constructive and positive thing to do. Why hasn’t it been done?

because ANET has made them devs not talk about ANYTHING until it was done because of past fiascos

Healix.5819:

kimeekat.2548:

“Old skill points in excess of those earned by leveling and skill challenges will be converted into crafting materials for the Mystic Forge,” sayeth Part II of their blog posts.

First, let’s categorize skill points. There are two types, ones that were legitimately earned and those that were farmed. Legitimate skill points were those that were earned while leveling (not to be confused with gaining XP at 80) and those obtained through skill challenges. Farmed skill points include everything else, which were originally only gained by gaining XP at 80, then later, skill scrolls. The new system is simply returning to the original system, minus skill points for leveling at 80.

What the above is saying is that farmed skill points will be converted into a mystic forge currency whereas legitimate skill points are being converted into hero points.

“Old skill points in excess of those earned [legitimately] will be converted into crafting materials…”

Get it? “in excess of those earned [legitimately]” means those that were farmed.

The new system is quite simple.

This all makes sense and was v well-written, however I hope you can understand that the ambiguous language of the original sentence has kind of become the point of this thread. We’ve already seen how three different people understand that sentence in three different ways that all appear to be valid.

I can add words, too :)

“in excess of those [number of SPs] earned by leveling and skill challenges” means: if you have 1k SPs total, ~465 (or whatever max is – I know this is just the number for retaining a full build) converts to max HPs with the excess ~535 and remaining skill challenges rewarding MF currency.

Without a clarifying explanation from official channels, people are just going to be arguing about what the conversion is without being able to talk about the best way to go forward from it. I find it highly probable that yours is the correct interpretation, but I still need to hear it from a dev before I can comfortably work with it as a basic premise for my actions in game or voicing my concerns/praise, you know?

Healix.5819:

Ask tomorrow’s PoI stream.

:) Getting questions through on POI is a nightmare with how fast chat scrolls and the team coming on with an outlined agenda. There was an AMA thread last week and I don’t recall a single question from it being answered on POI (with maybe 2 pulled from twitch chat). Understandably; they were v busy. Hopefully they get to more questions this week. The advantage of posting in the forum is the readability and ease of simply linking others who may be confused. Ambiguous meaning is a lot more easily and publicly cleared up with some back and forth, which the forums facilitate but is harder on twitch when there are 2k viewers trying to be heard.