Guild Wars 2

phys.7689:

Eurhetemec.9052:

phys.7689:

being able to get 65 points from a different source would effectively increase the maximum cap higher, not only that, but people who chose to get all their exp from competitive modes would have 65 more that the other people could never get.

No, you literally do not understand what is being suggest. LITERALLY.

Re-read it again, because I’m not sure it could be clearer.

.

you would end up with more points total if you
level only in spvp/wvw first, you get up to 65 extra points which puts you at
465 points.
then you go out and do 220 skill challenges and you now have 685 skill points, while the guy who did all skill challenges first has already capped those 65 points from a different source.

if it doesnt work that way, and simply gives 65 points you can get from a different source, then you would be increasing the total amount of points available, and the costs of everything would have to go up to compensate for a higher cap.
in the future all new specs would likely follow that same number.

now if my analysis is wrong, you can either explain why, or dont explain why, but regardless it isnt clear to me how these would not be problems with the system suggested.

The number of skill points/hero challenges will probably be made smaller, first of by cuting them from low level areas.

Doomsday Prep:

• Do at least 5 skill challenges every day.
• Stockpile all WvW kegs/thimbles/etc.
• Stockpile all PvP reward track progress items.
• Stockpile all leveling scrolls and xp boosts.
• Save your money under your mattress.
• Do not make any ascended gear or legendaries until everything has settled.

misterdevious.6482:

Doomsday Prep:

• Do at least 5 skill challenges every day.
• Stockpile all WvW kegs/thimbles/etc.
• Stockpile all PvP reward track progress items.
• Stockpile all leveling scrolls and xp boosts.
• Save your money under your mattress.
• Do not make any ascended gear or legendaries until everything has settled.

And pray they don’t junk some of them along the way?

BrotherBelial.3094:

misterdevious.6482:

Doomsday Prep:

• Do at least 5 skill challenges every day.
• Stockpile all WvW kegs/thimbles/etc.
• Stockpile all PvP reward track progress items.
• Stockpile all leveling scrolls and xp boosts.
• Save your money under your mattress.
• Do not make any ascended gear or legendaries until everything has settled.

And pray they don’t junk some of them along the way?

We’ve seen that show before. Hoarders won.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Karma-hoarding-wanted-warning-about-change/2664304
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Karma-Changes-Temporary-Rollback/2667286

BrotherBelial.3094:

The number of skill points/hero challenges will probably be made smaller, first of by cutting them from low level areas.

That is a legit concern. :\
If Hero Points, skills, and traits, start at 20, then it’s going to be REAL boring getting there, and there wouldn’t be a need for challenge points in starting zones.

Alternately, I think they might keep utilities opening up at … ye gods, when do they open? I haven’t leveled from 1 without a 20-scroll since NPE started.

Suffice it to say, if they delay utility options until 20 so they can all be opened with hero points, that will make the 1-20 stretch more boring than it already is.

Rauderi.8706:

BrotherBelial.3094:

The number of skill points/hero challenges will probably be made smaller, first of by cutting them from low level areas.

That is a legit concern. :\
If Hero Points, skills, and traits, start at 20, then it’s going to be REAL boring getting there, and there wouldn’t be a need for challenge points in starting zones.

Alternately, I think they might keep utilities opening up at … ye gods, when do they open? I haven’t leveled from 1 without a 20-scroll since NPE started.

Suffice it to say, if they delay utility options until 20 so they can all be opened with hero points, that will make the 1-20 stretch more boring than it already is.

Untill ANet tell us just how it will work, rather than just vague ideas of how it will work. I have to admit, I don’t really understand what’s going on with it all.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Untill ANet tell us just how it will work, rather than just vague ideas of how it will work. I have to admit, I don’t really understand what’s going on with it all.

My hope is that utilities will be available as they have normally. Currently, skill challenges and utilities open up at 13. It’s.. kind of late, to be honest, especially when you get all three of them by level 19.

I shudder to think that they’d delay opening hero challenges at 20, when the whole trait/skill system opens.

Rauderi.8706:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Untill ANet tell us just how it will work, rather than just vague ideas of how it will work. I have to admit, I don’t really understand what’s going on with it all.

My hope is that utilities will be available as they have normally. Currently, skill challenges and utilities open up at 13. It’s.. kind of late, to be honest, especially when you get all three of them by level 19.

I shudder to think that they’d delay opening hero challenges at 20, when the whole trait/skill system opens.

traits is 20, skills will likely be from start, hopefully they remove the skill challenge level lock completely

phys.7689:

Rauderi.8706:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Untill ANet tell us just how it will work, rather than just vague ideas of how it will work. I have to admit, I don’t really understand what’s going on with it all.

My hope is that utilities will be available as they have normally. Currently, skill challenges and utilities open up at 13. It’s.. kind of late, to be honest, especially when you get all three of them by level 19.

I shudder to think that they’d delay opening hero challenges at 20, when the whole trait/skill system opens.

traits is 20, skills will likely be from start, hopefully they remove the skill challenge level lock completely

Yeah, it’s all still up in the air.

Why bother with coding teleportation. Just fill in a randomly designated skill challenge after accomplishing X objectives in WvW/Killing Y number of players/Completing X world events/Completing a reward track/beating Z number of Dungeons/Fractals.

Eponet.4829:

Why bother with coding teleportation. Just fill in a randomly designated skill challenge after accomplishing X objectives in WvW/Killing Y number of players/Completing X world events/Completing a reward track/beating Z number of Dungeons/Fractals.

because teleportation items already exist. interacting with them will hit all the right already existing triggers. Basically this involves taking the already existing code for an item, and altering the coordinate values (just change some numbers, and some names)

randomly designated skill challenges may not be tracked, or stored or changed in an easy way. (requires programing new functionality, testing interactions, new UI)

also, keep in mind skill challenges are exploration. it doesnt fit thematically to give people exploration credit without having ever been to any of these places, or having ever done them.
It would be like getting credit for killing 1000 players by using the mystic forge.

phys.7689:

Astralporing.1957:

Then make a cap, and make it so that if you hit it by any means, the hero challenges would stop giving you anything beyond map completion ticks.

The problem with a cap, is it goes up to full.
say the cap is 540, people get 540, buy all skills, now when the new spec comes out, they have 540 points saved up.
they want people to have to play some new content, so they have extra skill points in the new zone, so now they have to make the new stuff cost 600 points.

No, they don’t. Remember, most of those points will be tied in already unlocked traitlines/skills. And if you want people not be able to unlock the new stuff right away, just do the conversion and cap the points before the expansion, then in expansion extend the cap.

phys.7689:

and what about when players level and they are over cap?

Nothing, in HoT you won’t get skill points over 80 anyway. And lower lewel characters would have lower cap, i guess.

phys.7689:

now if my analysis is wrong, you can either explain why, or dont explain why, but regardless it isnt clear to me how these would not be problems with the system suggested.

What’s being suggested is this.

The first 65 points, you get them however. The next 66-189 points, have to get them through SCs. There may then be up to 65 SCs you’ve still not done. You can do them, or not. Either way they do not give you any more Hero Points (but perhaps could give an alternate reward, or maybe counting for world completion is enough).

Eurhetemec.9052:

phys.7689:

now if my analysis is wrong, you can either explain why, or dont explain why, but regardless it isnt clear to me how these would not be problems with the system suggested.

What’s being suggested is this.

The first 65 points, you get them however. The next 66-189 points, have to get them through SCs. There may then be up to 65 SCs you’ve still not done. You can do them, or not. Either way they do not give you any more Hero Points (but perhaps could give an alternate reward, or maybe counting for world completion is enough).

so what happens with a player who doesnt gets 65 via other means, then he doesnt get anything past the 189. Then they add the next specialization,
does he get credit for the skill challenges he hasnt done when he tries to do them now? or do they count for nothing?

if he later gets credit, these players have the ability to avoid new content to get full unlocks, if they dont, wont they have to do these extra challenges later? in order to get the points from the newly added ones?

I think they should tie trait unlocks to WvW player kills. I mean, why not? If you have no player kills, it should just be a simple matter of catching up a bit, right? When you look at it that way, you may actually see the absurdity of the anticipated unlock system. You don’t want to have to kill X number of opposing players? Too bad, ‘cause that whole ’play the way you want’ thing was just another bit of marketing spin.

Daddar.5971:

I think they should tie trait unlocks to WvW player kills. I mean, why not? If you have no player kills, it should just be a simple matter of catching up a bit, right? When you look at it that way, you may actually see the absurdity of the anticipated unlock system. You don’t want to have to kill X number of opposing players? Too bad, ‘cause that whole ’play the way you want’ thing was just another bit of marketing spin.

Too easily farmed, I would think. Especially in in the larger zerg on zerg fights. We’ve already seen players farming each other for loot in an agreed upon manner. I think it would just be a bit messy.

The problem we run into is that WvW, unlike spvp, is not a completely separate mode from pve. Thus there is a lot more to take into consideration regarding the ‘how’ behind hero points.

The basic problem is that PvE players who are obsessive about map completion can have everything unlocked right away on all their toons, while hard-core WvW players who only do PvE when absolutely necessary will have to do a lot of PvE just to get back to the traits they already legitimately unlocked before. It’s patently unfair, since it lavishly rewards one playstyle while severely disadvantaging another, all for the sake of ‘ease of coding’.

Daddar.5971:

The basic problem is that PvE players who are obsessive about map completion can have everything unlocked right away on all their toons, while hard-core WvW players who only do PvE when absolutely necessary will have to do a lot of PvE just to get back to the traits they already legitimately unlocked before. It’s patently unfair, since it lavishly rewards one playstyle while severely disadvantaging another, all for the sake of ‘ease of coding’.

I don’t particularly consider 65 skill challenges to be “a lot,” but that’s just difference of opinion.

Hard core pvp players that decide they want to dungeon or do anything in pve or wvw will be in the exact same place as you. Sure, they can level to 80 through their chosen mode (via tomes), but once they step a toe outside that mode, they run into the same issue as a hard core wvw player. They have to go do pve content to obtain those last 65 points for the core specs, and ‘x’ number for the elite spec. Additionally, there will be quite a few pve only players that will be in similar shoes. People who leveled alts through tomes, or eotm, or just skill scrolled their way through the necessary points for skill unlocks. So I wouldn’t say its “patently unfair,” but it is disadvantageous.

There is probably more to it than just ‘ease of coding’ as you call out. However, it’s hard to tell given that we can’t see the underlying code. You do have to step back and look at it from the perspective of all the modes though, not just wvw or just pve. How they can set up and balance the new hero points so that its not easier to go to one mode over another. How to implement limitations so people don’t double up because they play more than one mode. Etc Etc. Its not a “simple” problem.

Grandfathering would be a simple solution to this supposedly complex problem, but that would potentially rob A-net of the opportunity to force players to play new (and old, boring, pointless) content. How hard can it really be to say ‘all characters with all core traits unlocked will still have them unlocked when the transition occurs’? Or is there someone who actually believes that ‘skill challenges’ are not laughably (and ironically) misnamed?

But grandfathering is not a simple solution. Unlike skill points, hero points are intended to be ‘limited’ resource. They have a cap, which is something that has to be taken into consideration as part of the programming of the system.

Grandfathering people in essentially puts them in debt, which they would need to work off, since they now have credit for content they didn’t actually do. This would require them to ‘work it off’ before they could start earning points to put towards the new elite.

Or do you suggest that Anet simply gives all those people 65 free skill challenges that they now no longer need to complete? They just select a random 65 across the map and mark them as done? Giving credit for content that wasn’t actually done…I can just hear that uproar now.

Or, just ignoring all of that and just grandfathering them in, if they still complete all of the skill challenges per normal, they will eventually hit the point cap before all of the challenges are done. Then what? Do these players then get nothing for completing those? Wouldn’t be all that dissimilar from working off the debt, only you’d be doing it at the end of the run instead of the beginning.

Its not a ‘simple’ problem, thus there is no ‘simple’ or right solution. Since we have to do skill challenges anyway to get the points to open up the elite spec, it shouldn’t be that big a deal.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Grandfathering people in essentially puts them in debt, which they would need to work off, since they now have credit for content they didn’t actually do. This would require them to ‘work it off’ before they could start earning points to put towards the new elite.

Why? They’re handing out 400 points just for leveling to 80. Grandfather in existing 80s at 465, and leave the skill challenges completed on each character just as they are. Or, since my engi spent 90 skills points to unlock all of his core profession skills (non-racial), the grandfathering process could convert some ratio of those to hero points based on the number of current skill points spent on skills. Regardless of how those skill points were obtained, there’s no debt, nothing to work off.

The issue people are pointing out is that there are going to be a controlled number of Hero Points in the game, not infinite as we now have with Skill Points. Those Hero Points will be obtained via leveling and doing the blue chevron challenges. So if someone is grandfathered in without having done the chevrons, suddenly they have more Hero Points available than the system is meant to handle. Coding special case treatment for each challenge to check whether it should or should not count towards the Hero Point total could lead to some horrible bugs.

Believe me, I’d love to be grandfathered in. I have a lot of alts and I’m getting pretty tired of Brisban by now as I run them all through all the skill points I can; I have moved most of them from low 40’s completion to 100 over the past week or two. I just don’t see how ANet can translate from the current system to the new one since the fundamentals of acquisition are changing so much.

I don’t believe ANet is as evil and insensitive as most posters here think. The pessimism here is so… internetish.

My main has had map completion since soon after game release. My other level characters range from 1 to 65% with between 0 and 90 skill points above everything unlocked. I’m working the characters I enjoy toward map completion, but am not panicking and inventing unsubstantiated theories.

Do you folks honestly believe that ANet is going to screw over PvP and WvW players? If your opinion of ANet is that low, why do you even play this game? Lotsa stuff to play if GW2 goes south, ya know.

Donari.5237:

The issue people are pointing out is that there are going to be a controlled number of Hero Points in the game, not infinite as we now have with Skill Points. Those Hero Points will be obtained via leveling and doing the blue chevron challenges. So if someone is grandfathered in without having done the chevrons, suddenly they have more Hero Points available than the system is meant to handle. Coding special case treatment for each challenge to check whether it should or should not count towards the Hero Point total could lead to some horrible bugs.

But won’t the world will always need to contain at a minimum as many hero points that a character can spend? Most likely many more. Yes, grandfathering in could result in some characters having more hero points available to them than the world might currently normally offer to new characters (grandfathered in character subsequently does world completion, say) – but those characters still can’t actually spend them on anything…? Also, the skill points on the WvW Borderlands no longer contribute to world completion, and so won’t contribute to Hero points either. But you can still do the challenge without earning a skill point. Similarly if character with ‘max’ hero points completes a hero challenge, they just complete it without earning another hero point…?

I don’t understand why hero points should be “limited”. Or maybe just add another “limited” way to get them.
Right now there are:
-400 from leveling
-189(?) from skill/hero challenges

So just add one of these:
-100 from getting a level on level 80 (If that’s still possible then)
or
-100 from PvP/WvW(/Dungeon) reward chests as random loot

For veteran characters they could simply give points based on the amount of unlocked traits/skills.
So if you have unlocked EVERYTHING already you get 65 points and you will only get 35 more from leveling/the reward chests.
This would be the fairest way and shouldn’t be too hard to implement.

Sytherek.7689:

I don’t believe ANet is as evil and insensitive as most posters here think. The pessimism here is so… internetish.

My main has had map completion since soon after game release. My other level characters range from 1 to 65% with between 0 and 90 skill points above everything unlocked. I’m working the characters I enjoy toward map completion, but am not panicking and inventing unsubstantiated theories.

Do you folks honestly believe that ANet is going to screw over PvP and WvW players? If your opinion of ANet is that low, why do you even play this game? Lotsa stuff to play if GW2 goes south, ya know.

its not a low opinion type thing, its a question of what anet thinks is fair and within their game design.

First of all, as far as SPVP anet never intended SPVP people to be able to fully progress their charachters in pve. That came later, when they decided to unify the armor systems and what not.
There is no requirement that spvp people be able to fully progress their charachters for PVE mode, in fact it is imo a very bad idea. PVE is mostly about progression, your levels, experience, and skills are awarded as per the game design to encourage you to enjoy what pve has to offer.

Now, as far as WvW, that is problematic, they do actually need the skills and traits to progress. This essentially comes down to whether they see WvW as an extension on PVE, or its own separate thing.
As it is now, i would reccomend that they do allow people to progress their charachters skills/traits in WvW, or at least minimize the effort, however if they decide that WvW is supposed to involve some amount of pve, thats their decision.

It’s easy to say that hero points should be limited when you’re a PvE player with one toon and world completion. When you have 15 lv. 80 toons (only 1 w/ world completion) and spend (nearly) all your game time in WvW, it is a problem. Not only have I paid for character slots, but I’ve put in the effort to unlock everything. To tell me now that I have to do 65 ‘skill challenges’ 14 times over just to get back to what I’ve already earned is just a wee bit… problematic. :/

I agree, Daddar, even though I’m firmly ensconced in PvE. I have 14 80’s and only two have world completion. It’s been quite a project bumping up their completed challenges.

I just don’t know what they can do for pure WvWers. Maybe provide automatic completion of 65 challenges (or whatever the final figure is for full core unlock) in the lowest level zones, with no surrounding terrain, wp, vista, or poi unlocks? But when it’s time to get the elite specs, then y’all have to head into PvE after all to get just those points needed … because you didn’t already have those earned.

…and I’d be just fine w/ that. PvE to earn the new stuff is fine with me, as long as everyone has to do it.

Daddar.5971:

…and I’d be just fine w/ that. PvE to earn the new stuff is fine with me, as long as everyone has to do it.

erm how about no!i dont wanna be forced to do pve just to use my traits in wvw. i got a lot of skillpoints but i really hope i dont have to do pve stuff to unlock traits etc…

as a wvw player id rather just log in with my level 80 characters and put my points in the traitline without having to use gold for traits or do a pve quest. if it needs something let me buy it with wvw badges…

phys.7689:

Sytherek.7689:

I don’t believe ANet is as evil and insensitive as most posters here think. The pessimism here is so… internetish.

My main has had map completion since soon after game release. My other level characters range from 1 to 65% with between 0 and 90 skill points above everything unlocked. I’m working the characters I enjoy toward map completion, but am not panicking and inventing unsubstantiated theories.

Do you folks honestly believe that ANet is going to screw over PvP and WvW players? If your opinion of ANet is that low, why do you even play this game? Lotsa stuff to play if GW2 goes south, ya know.

its not a low opinion type thing, its a question of what anet thinks is fair and within their game design.

First of all, as far as SPVP anet never intended SPVP people to be able to fully progress their charachters in pve. That came later, when they decided to unify the armor systems and what not.
There is no requirement that spvp people be able to fully progress their charachters for PVE mode, in fact it is imo a very bad idea. PVE is mostly about progression, your levels, experience, and skills are awarded as per the game design to encourage you to enjoy what pve has to offer.

Now, as far as WvW, that is problematic, they do actually need the skills and traits to progress. This essentially comes down to whether they see WvW as an extension on PVE, or its own separate thing.
As it is now, i would reccomend that they do allow people to progress their charachters skills/traits in WvW, or at least minimize the effort, however if they decide that WvW is supposed to involve some amount of pve, thats their decision.

+1 from me…………….

selan.8354:

phys.7689:

Sytherek.7689:

I don’t believe ANet is as evil and insensitive as most posters here think. The pessimism here is so… internetish.

My main has had map completion since soon after game release. My other level characters range from 1 to 65% with between 0 and 90 skill points above everything unlocked. I’m working the characters I enjoy toward map completion, but am not panicking and inventing unsubstantiated theories.

Do you folks honestly believe that ANet is going to screw over PvP and WvW players? If your opinion of ANet is that low, why do you even play this game? Lotsa stuff to play if GW2 goes south, ya know.

its not a low opinion type thing, its a question of what anet thinks is fair and within their game design.

First of all, as far as SPVP anet never intended SPVP people to be able to fully progress their charachters in pve. That came later, when they decided to unify the armor systems and what not.
There is no requirement that spvp people be able to fully progress their charachters for PVE mode, in fact it is imo a very bad idea. PVE is mostly about progression, your levels, experience, and skills are awarded as per the game design to encourage you to enjoy what pve has to offer.

Now, as far as WvW, that is problematic, they do actually need the skills and traits to progress. This essentially comes down to whether they see WvW as an extension on PVE, or its own separate thing.
As it is now, i would reccomend that they do allow people to progress their charachters skills/traits in WvW, or at least minimize the effort, however if they decide that WvW is supposed to involve some amount of pve, thats their decision.

+1 from me…………….

I see no reason to believe ANet will screw over WvW loyalists by forcing them to PvE. They’ll likely unlock everything, like upscaling.

They haven’t told us everything yet. It’s months away. Why play a game from a company you distrust?

Why couldn’t they have just stuck with the 20,60,80 trait books and left hero points for elite specialization… I also haven’t made a new character since the NPE was released, wasn’t going to bother with that train wreck.

I have 3 mains, 2 of them have 100% map completion, the other only has 35%. I have 10 alts, who have roughly 10-30% map completion.

This is honestly really annoying. Why would they lock up content, especially something so important to the game that has been there from the start (and was readily accessible through the purchase of 3 trait books)

I think the saying, “don’t fix what isn’t broken” matches this problem.

LumAnth.5124:

Why couldn’t they have just stuck with the 20,60,80 trait books and left hero points for elite specialization… I also haven’t made a new character since the NPE was released, wasn’t going to bother with that train wreck.

I have 3 mains, 2 of them have 100% map completion, the other only has 35%. I have 10 alts, who have roughly 10-30% map completion.

This is honestly really annoying. Why would they lock up content, especially something so important to the game that has been there from the start (and was readily accessible through the purchase of 3 trait books)

I think the saying, “don’t fix what isn’t broken” matches this problem.

If all of your alts have between 10-30% map comp then you probably wont have much of an issue. Most of your characters should have enough hero points to unlock everything right off the bat.

I would like to point out that in the time since this thread started every person in it could have obtained 50% world completion by just playing 1 hour per day. This is almost triple of what will be needed to get full unlock status in the expansion, i.e. three characters worth of unlocks.

^

I haven’t been able to find any of this information. Where does it say everything will be reset and that we’ll have to re-unlock all our skills/traits?

Sorry to be that person, but does anyone have a link to where someone from ANet said you will only have 400 points to spend, and how that wont be enough to unlock everything even if you’ve done so previously?

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I would like to point out that in the time since this thread started every person in it could have obtained 50% world completion by just playing 1 hour per day. This is almost triple of what will be needed to get full unlock status in the expansion, i.e. three characters worth of unlocks.

Instead of that , people do the unthinkable: they used that hour to do something they ENJOY TO DO.

You are missing the point. It is not about “how to get every point needed to unlock everything”. It is about “why Anet threat to take from us things we already have”.

I do like exploring and such, so this maybe doesn’t affect me so much. But even if someone is so extreme to have unlocked all the traits for 18 characters without ever having completed even 1 skill point nor even 1% of the map, that someone HAS THE RIGHT TO KEEP WHAT HE/SHE ALRREADY HAVE.

Maybe we are reading things incorrectly and all this is just some stupid mistake. But if it is real that we are going going to lose even 1 of the trait points we already have earned (no matter how) then Anet is acting wrong. Period.

^Doing what you find fun, isn’t really a valid excuse. There are lot of things you HAVE to do that you might not enjoy if you want to get a lot out of an MMORPG. I don’t find leveling fun, but to maximize my time in the game, guess what I have to do? That is right slug through level 40 to 65. I just want to play a mesmer boom, level 1 to 80 of torture.

MMORPG constantly change, it is rather idiotic to expect that things do not change.

PlatinumMember.5274:

^Doing what you find fun, isn’t really a valid excuse.

Doing what you find fun is always a valid excuse when you are talking about playing a game – a medium whose sole purpose is entertainment.

All this time you’ve spent reading/argueing in this thread could have been used to get those skill challenges.

And they could have made the unlocks dependent on jumping puzzles completed. Or fractals. Or sPvP wins. Or Keg brawl, Belcher’s Bluff or Crab Toss wins. Or World Boss kills. Or WvW keep captures. Or dungeons.

Just pick your least favorite facet of the game, and imagine you now have to do it for many hours just to get back what you’ve ALREADY EARNED, instead of ‘playing the way you want’. No one is saying things should never change, just that the changes should not massively revert progress already earned.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I would like to point out that in the time since this thread started every person in it could have obtained 50% world completion by just playing 1 hour per day. This is almost triple of what will be needed to get full unlock status in the expansion, i.e. three characters worth of unlocks.

I’d would like to point out that they shouldn’t have to.

An hour a day running around tagging skill challenges to unlock things we already earned is an hour not spent doing something in game we either enjoy more or give rewards we haven’t already earned.

spoj.9672:

All this time you’ve spent reading/argueing in this thread could have been used to get those skill challenges.

Nah. I only read and reply when I can’t be in game.

IntheCoconut.3497:

I haven’t been able to find any of this information. Where does it say everything will be reset and that we’ll have to re-unlock all our skills/traits?

Sorry to be that person, but does anyone have a link to where someone from ANet said you will only have 400 points to spend, and how that wont be enough to unlock everything even if you’ve done so previously?

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/ready-up-core-specializations-summary/

And yes, people have interpreted some of the information differently, but general consensus seems to be that it reads we will have our traits and skills wiped when this system goes live, and be rewarded hero points for the levels and skill challenges completed by each character. Excess skillpoints beyond the number of completed hero (skill) challenges completed will become a crafting material.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I would like to point out that in the time since this thread started every person in it could have obtained 50% world completion by just playing 1 hour per day. This is almost triple of what will be needed to get full unlock status in the expansion, i.e. three characters worth of unlocks.

Or they could have made 500 dollars working an extra hour per day. What’s your point? Would it be considered acceptable if they scrapped hero points altogether and just made the trait unlocks a 40,000 gem item?

Yes, that is a comparable analogy. I’ve done world completion once, and hated myself about a quarter of the way through. It would be even worse doing it a second, or third, or fourth, or fifth, or sixth, or seventh, or eighth, or ninth time. At least in the process of earning your money you know that you’re doing something productive, even if you hate it.

Astralporing.1957:

PlatinumMember.5274:

^Doing what you find fun, isn’t really a valid excuse.

Doing what you find fun is always a valid excuse when you are talking about playing a game – a medium whose sole purpose is entertainment.

Maybe a single player game but MMORPG are jammed packed with random crap design to waste your time as much as possible and not necessarily for fun.

PlatinumMember.5274:

Maybe a single player game but MMORPG are jammed packed with random crap design to waste your time as much as possible and not necessarily for fun.

…and this has not exactly been a formula for success. Most MMOs are struggling at best, and this is a large reason why. GW2 strives to be better than the others, so copying their failures would be a poor business plan.

PlatinumMember.5274:

Astralporing.1957:

PlatinumMember.5274:

^Doing what you find fun, isn’t really a valid excuse.

Doing what you find fun is always a valid excuse when you are talking about playing a game – a medium whose sole purpose is entertainment.

Maybe a single player game but MMORPG are jammed packed with random crap design to waste your time as much as possible and not necessarily for fun.

single player games are rarely play as you want, most games have specific ways to get things, and if you dont want to do it, you dont get it. The whole concept of getting anything that is in a game, via doing anything is relatively new.

Daddar.5971:

PlatinumMember.5274:

Maybe a single player game but MMORPG are jammed packed with random crap design to waste your time as much as possible and not necessarily for fun.

…and this has not exactly been a formula for success. Most MMOs are struggling at best, and this is a large reason why. GW2 strives to be better than the others, so copying their failures would be a poor business plan.

what games actually let you get anything you want by playing the game in anyway posible?
not just MMOs, i mean most games.

In Metal gear solid, if i wanted certain weapons, i had to go somewhere specific to get it. In dark souls, if i wanted a fancy greatsword, i had had to go to the fancy greatsword place. In NBA live, if i wanted to get the championship, i had to play the playoffs.

It really isnt crazy that a game asks you to play the game to make progress in the game, and its not crazy that different types of play reward progress differently.

people who talk about progress lost have a point, and people who say WvW needs some ways of obtaining skills, may have a point.

However the idea that you might have to do something in the game to progress in the game, is not evil.