Guild Wars 2

Just to add my two cents to everything, since I personally don’t understand why this is such an issue, here’s what’s going to happen based on what Anet has said and my personal expectations:

—When the update drops, everyone WILL lose all unlocked skills and traits. Don’t freak out just yet.

—You will gain hero points based on your level. For most of us, this means you have 400 points at level 80.

—You will also gain additional hero points based on how many skill/hero challenges you have completed, whether that number is 1 or 220.

—465 hero points are necessary to unlock every skill and core specialization. 65 hero points is roughly equal to one core specialization. Anything extra is just extra, and will go towards future elite specializations.

—Everyone gets EVERYTHING unlocked in sPvP, regardless of how many hero points you may or may not have. If you purchase Heart of Thorns, all elite specializations are available to you.

—The only real problem WvW-only players may face IMO are those additional 65 skill points. Unless you experience physical pain when entering PvE zones, it might be a good idea to roam n00b-level zones and grab as many skill challenges as possible. You only need 65 to complete, which isn’t much at all.

Surely that’s a better alternative to having to complete group events and/or purchasing traits with gold, right?

ThanatosAngel.8024:

Surely that’s a better alternative to having to complete group events and/or purchasing traits with gold, right?

No, it isn’t. You get gold and skill points from playing every part of the game that involves mechanics in some way. You only get skill challenge completion from skill challenge completion. It’s a huge step back for anyone who isn’t a world completion player.

Eponet.4829:

ThanatosAngel.8024:

Surely that’s a better alternative to having to complete group events and/or purchasing traits with gold, right?

No, it isn’t. You get gold and skill points from playing every part of the game that involves mechanics in some way. You only get skill challenge completion from skill challenge completion. It’s a huge step back for anyone who isn’t a world completion player.

Gold and skill points are way too valuable to spend on traits, things that should already be unlocked from leveling up like they were a year ago.

And like I said, you hardly need to “world complete” to get 65 skill challenges done, and that’s only if you really need to get your final core spec, which, if it’s the last thing you’re unlocking, is probably not that important to your intended build.

The best thing about skill challenges is that they can be largely done solo. The worst thing about completing events for traits is that they largely can’t. AND you have to do a specific event for a specific trait you probably won’t even use, instead of earning a point that you can put towards a trait you actually want. So which is really the worse option?

Eponet.4829:

ThanatosAngel.8024:

Surely that’s a better alternative to having to complete group events and/or purchasing traits with gold, right?

No, it isn’t. You get gold and skill points from playing every part of the game that involves mechanics in some way. You only get skill challenge completion from skill challenge completion. It’s a huge step back for anyone who isn’t a world completion player.

its not a step back when you are talking about earning something like 400 more skill points and 43 gold, versus earning 65 skill points.

65 skill points averages at an average of 1 per 5 minutes in pve
vs
400 skill points with an average of 1 per half hour in WvW.
and 43 gold, at an average of 8? gold an hour in WvW.

and, even under the old first system, you actually had no skill point scrolls,
the math comes down to like
30 extra hours to unlock all skills
versus
3 extra hours in pve doing skill challenges.

If you want to argue for progress lost thats fine, but lets be honest, this system is easier than either previous system.

if they don’t grandfather my 7 geared 80s i will just quit the game. i hate pve, and only wvw and pvp. previously i was able to gear and build my characters from doing just those. if all my progress is removed and i have to do awful boring pve to get my builds back I’ll just quit. it’s a lot of wasted time, and it’s anet basically spitting in my face.

NPR was awful, but at least i could use all the skill point scrolls from wvw and pvp to unlock traits. being forced to pve, wow so fun.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I don’t particularly consider 65 skill challenges to be “a lot,” but that’s just difference of opinion.

65 skills challenges is probably around 11 hours to complete for 1 toon. Add in multiple toons and it is a lot of time to regain what we already have..

morrolan.9608:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I don’t particularly consider 65 skill challenges to be “a lot,” but that’s just difference of opinion.

65 skills challenges is probably around 11 hours to complete for 1 toon. Add in multiple toons and it is a lot of time to regain what we already have..

it is NOT 11 hours to do… you can pop from point to point and communing takes a few seconds. you can easily get 65 points in under 2 hours if you dedicate the time.

morrolan.9608:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I don’t particularly consider 65 skill challenges to be “a lot,” but that’s just difference of opinion.

65 skills challenges is probably around 11 hours to complete for 1 toon. Add in multiple toons and it is a lot of time to regain what we already have..

no it is not.

I have 14 lv. 80 toons with full skill unlocks, and I play almost exclusively WvW, with the occasional quick PvE daily. One of my toons has full map completion: been there, done that. How would you feel if A-net removed skills you had already earned, and told you that you could only have them back if you played tic-tac-toe or go fish for hours on end. That’s basically what the ‘skill challenges’ are. Utterly pointless, skill-less filler-fecal-content that is a complete waste of my few hours of available free time that could be spent ‘playing the way I want’. All I and others are asking is to keep what we’ve already earned. Anyone who doesn’t get that is either reading-disabled or a childish troll.

Thats exactly how i feel about it with most of my alts. But i can accept it because logically its the only choice they have to provide a better system for the future. And you have so much time to prepare for the patch. You dont really have much grounds for complaint at this point.

It is their fault for introducing an abundance of skill point scrolls. But theres no other way out of it. Unless they plan to make all core specs and skills unlockable from just being level 80. But i feel like thats a bit too generous for future characters.

Either way you are going to have to grind hero challenges for the elite specs anyway. Probably more than 65 for an elite spec. So I think you are just going to have to embrace that they want you to earn your unlocks and get on with it. Its not ideal for everyone but you dont really have a choice.

That said they might surprise us and make WvW have everything auto unlocked like it is for PvP.

spoj.9672:

…logically its the only choice they have to provide a better system for the future. And you have so much time to prepare for the patch. You dont really have much grounds for complaint at this point…

There are certainly other ways they could make us earn the skill unlocks. For instance, they could make them dependent on having X-number of player kills in WvW. Then all the PvE-only players will lose the traits they’ve already earned. No worries though, since they can come play catch-up in WvW to earn them back. I’m sure that would be just fine with everyone, right?

You do know this discussion is pointless right? people hated the change to the current system and Anet did not back pedal, what makes anyone think that we have the least amount of influence in altering what they have already decided on doing any way?.

You can infract me all you want anet. It doesn’t change the fact that you poo on wvw. and this new system is kitten. Oh and great job wrecking thief stealth. You really know how to ruin a game.

Apolo.5942:

You do know this discussion is pointless right? people hated the change to the current system and Anet did not back pedal, what makes anyone think that we have the least amount of influence in altering what they have already decided on doing any way?.

Uhhhm… FIX IT BEFORE THEY ADD IT?

phys.7689:

Eponet.4829:

ThanatosAngel.8024:

Surely that’s a better alternative to having to complete group events and/or purchasing traits with gold, right?

No, it isn’t. You get gold and skill points from playing every part of the game that involves mechanics in some way. You only get skill challenge completion from skill challenge completion. It’s a huge step back for anyone who isn’t a world completion player.

its not a step back when you are talking about earning something like 400 more skill points and 43 gold, versus earning 65 skill points.

65 skill points averages at an average of 1 per 5 minutes in pve
vs
400 skill points with an average of 1 per half hour in WvW.
and 43 gold, at an average of 8? gold an hour in WvW.

and, even under the old first system, you actually had no skill point scrolls,
the math comes down to like
30 extra hours to unlock all skills
versus
3 extra hours in pve doing skill challenges.

If you want to argue for progress lost thats fine, but lets be honest, this system is easier than either previous system.

I think you’re forgetting something.

This system is infinite time in WvWvW/Dungeons/Fractals/SPvP.
This system is easier if you do the content that gives them. It’s far, far worse if you don’t.

Additionally, you don’t need to purchase every trait under the current system, many of them are ineffective (Fall damage outside of jumping off fortresses) or broken (Radiant Retaliation). Under the announced system, we’ll have to unlock every trait in a trait line before we can move on to the next one, because they’re all parceled together, presumably with the grandmaster traits at the very last section of it, because progression/feeling special, and a trait line with only 2 traits open is almost always going to be worse than one with three, making it worthless until you reach the very end of the line.

Somehow I’ve managed to unlock traits from all 5 trait lines on multiple characters with only a single character with world completion, and the rest at or below 35 skill challenges.

If three hours doing something unenjoyable is acceptable, why not just make it a $60 gem store item? It’s more or less the same thing, but at least working overtime gets something productive to society done.

Neox.3497:

I don’t understand why hero points should be “limited”. Or maybe just add another “limited” way to get them.
Right now there are:
-400 from leveling
-189(?) from skill/hero challenges

So just add one of these:
-100 from getting a level on level 80 (If that’s still possible then)
or
-100 from PvP/WvW(/Dungeon) reward chests as random loot

For veteran characters they could simply give points based on the amount of unlocked traits/skills.
So if you have unlocked EVERYTHING already you get 65 points and you will only get 35 more from leveling/the reward chests.
This would be the fairest way and shouldn’t be too hard to implement.

Can anyone maybe say anything to my suggestion? I haven’t seen anything better yet.

plus, there is going to be a grind for elite specialisations, so its grind for new stuff + grind for the old stuff we just took from you.

my opinion is simple, all existing 80s should be grandfathered in with full unlocks. they have to unlock elite specialisations, and that’s enough. let people play the game instead of grinding to play the game.

choovanski.5462:

plus, there is going to be a grind for elite specialisations, so its grind for new stuff + grind for the old stuff we just took from you.

my opinion is simple, all existing 80s should be grandfathered in with full unlocks. they have to unlock elite specialisations, and that’s enough. let people play the game instead of grinding to play the game.

+ 1 million.

spoj.9672:

Thats exactly how i feel about it with most of my alts. But i can accept it because logically its the only choice they have to provide a better system for the future.

Except, it is not true. Several good suggestions were already made that didn’t necessitate removing stuff from players.

Apolo.5942:

You do know this discussion is pointless right? people hated the change to the current system and Anet did not back pedal

Except they did backpedal. The whole new trait system is being introduced mainly because people didn’t like the current one.

Astralporing.1957:

spoj.9672:

Thats exactly how i feel about it with most of my alts. But i can accept it because logically its the only choice they have to provide a better system for the future.

Except, it is not true. Several good suggestions were already made that didn’t necessitate removing stuff from players.

Apolo.5942:

You do know this discussion is pointless right? people hated the change to the current system and Anet did not back pedal

Except they did backpedal. The whole new trait system is being introduced mainly because people didn’t like the current one.

i didnt see many workable solutions, unless they change the idea of having the maximum amount of skill points be skill challenges + leveling.

its tricky because as long as skill points are involved, if they add any other source, it will always lead to possible scenarios where skill challenges cant award skill points, either that or make players work much harder to get skills/traits, or create another overstock of skill points like they had before.

they could auto unlock 65 specific skill points on every charachter that is currently fully unlocked, but people who arent fully unlocked wouldnt be happy. Also, they may not have the back end built to do that.

Yeah i havent seen any working solutions in this thread either. Grandfathering wont work because people will have different maximum possible hero points. So ill give a few working ones. But i dont think anet will do any of them because they still have issues.

They could make 400 hero points be the requirement for all core stuff. Or they could unlock everything for you and give you a 65 hero point debt. But this would mean you still have to earn those extra points before you can even attempt to unlock the elite spec. Or they could auto complete 65 hero challenge but that would likely upset people who like doing map comp but havent gotten round to it on all their alts. Only other solution is to have WvW have everything auto unlock like in PvP.

spoj.9672:

Yeah i havent seen any working solutions in this thread either. Grandfathering wont work because people will have different maximum possible hero points. So ill give a few working ones. But i dont think anet will do any of them because they still have issues.

They could make 400 hero points be the requirement for all core stuff. Or they could unlock everything for you and give you a 65 hero point debt. But this would mean you still have to earn those extra points before you can even attempt to unlock the elite spec. Or they could auto complete 65 hero challenge but that would likely upset people who like doing map comp but havent gotten round to it on all their alts. Only other solution is to have WvW have everything auto unlock like in PvP.

dunno if they could do it, but wvw full trait/skill unlock would probably solve most beefs

spoj.9672:

Yeah i havent seen any working solutions in this thread either. Grandfathering wont work because people will have different maximum possible hero points.

No, the maximum possible hero points are the same for everyone – it’s the 400 points from level + all available skill challenges.

spoj.9672:

They could make 400 hero points be the requirement for all core stuff. Or they could unlock everything for you and give you a 65 hero point debt. But this would mean you still have to earn those extra points before you can even attempt to unlock the elite spec. Or they could auto complete 65 hero challenge but that would likely upset people who like doing map comp but havent gotten round to it on all their alts. Only other solution is to have WvW have everything auto unlock like in PvP.

Or they could give you points depending on your level, refund skillpoints for unlocked traits and skills, then convert posessed skillpoints into hero points up to a cap, which would be maximum possible amount you could get at your level. This would have the side issue that doing hero challenges while at the cap would not give you any more hero points, but that’s the least negative option out of all considered. Besides, they’d still count for map completion, so it would be still worth doing them.

There is a radical alternative that I haven’t seen mentioned in a while:

Change WvW to use the PvP equipment sets ( and therefore also traits/skills).

I know some don’t like this due to customization and wanting to out-gear enemies.

However it would also solve problems like up-levels being a rally-bot in zergs.

Astralporing.1957:

spoj.9672:

Yeah i havent seen any working solutions in this thread either. Grandfathering wont work because people will have different maximum possible hero points.

No, the maximum possible hero points are the same for everyone – it’s the 400 points from level + all available skill challenges.

spoj.9672:

They could make 400 hero points be the requirement for all core stuff. Or they could unlock everything for you and give you a 65 hero point debt. But this would mean you still have to earn those extra points before you can even attempt to unlock the elite spec. Or they could auto complete 65 hero challenge but that would likely upset people who like doing map comp but havent gotten round to it on all their alts. Only other solution is to have WvW have everything auto unlock like in PvP.

Or they could give you points depending on your level, refund skillpoints for unlocked traits and skills, then convert posessed skillpoints into hero points up to a cap, which would be maximum possible amount you could get at your level. This would have the side issue that doing hero challenges while at the cap would not give you any more hero points, but that’s the least negative option out of all considered. Besides, they’d still count for map completion, so it would be still worth doing them.

Thats the same as making a hero point debt. But i can see why anet would rather avoid that method. I said grandfathering wont work because it would cause people to have different potential maximums. I know that it is intended for everyone to have the same maximum. Which is why i proposed all those other solutions.

Personally i feel its better to just take a small amount of flak when the patch goes alive. For the better of the system in the future. Controversial and unpopular amongst WvW exclusive players i know. But i would rather that than introduce the problems of all the other solutions.

Those 65 extra equates to ~14% (65/465) of missing points. Despite that being a setback in losing some skills/traits, there should be more than enough with 400 points alone. There’s usually 1 or 2 sets of skills/traits that is hardly used in existing PvE builds anyways. e.g. Thief traps, Engi Turrets, or Warrior Physical skills.

Therefore you’re not really losing anything as I can bet that 400 would be enough to get all the traits back, just simply missing a little to get all the last few skill types if allocated properly.

Neox.3497:

I don’t understand why hero points should be “limited”

because they want to expand the system in the future, if the resource wouldn’t be limited, everyone would have farmed tons of it before new content which require it comes… so in the moment second expansion launches and they add more elite specializations for example, everyone will have more than enough hero points to unlock everything instantly… but they want people to progress through new content, not unlock everything immediately with previously farmed currency…

CorrynnStarr.7942:

morrolan.9608:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I don’t particularly consider 65 skill challenges to be “a lot,” but that’s just difference of opinion.

65 skills challenges is probably around 11 hours to complete for 1 toon. Add in multiple toons and it is a lot of time to regain what we already have..

it is NOT 11 hours to do… you can pop from point to point and communing takes a few seconds. you can easily get 65 points in under 2 hours if you dedicate the time.

1 skill point every 1.8 seconds I dont think so.

choovanski.5462:

plus, there is going to be a grind for elite specialisations, so its grind for new stuff + grind for the old stuff we just took from you.

my opinion is simple, all existing 80s should be grandfathered in with full unlocks. they have to unlock elite specialisations, and that’s enough. let people play the game instead of grinding to play the game.

This a thousand times this

morrolan.9608:

CorrynnStarr.7942:

morrolan.9608:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I don’t particularly consider 65 skill challenges to be “a lot,” but that’s just difference of opinion.

65 skills challenges is probably around 11 hours to complete for 1 toon. Add in multiple toons and it is a lot of time to regain what we already have..

it is NOT 11 hours to do… you can pop from point to point and communing takes a few seconds. you can easily get 65 points in under 2 hours if you dedicate the time.

1 skill point every 1.8 seconds I dont think so.

2hr = 120mins. 120/65 = 1.8 minutes.
2hr is a bad estimate though.

2mins per hero point is pretty reasonable. As long as you arent clearing mobs along the way and you have a few waypoints in various maps.

spoj.9672:

LumAnth.5124:

Why couldn’t they have just stuck with the 20,60,80 trait books and left hero points for elite specialization… I also haven’t made a new character since the NPE was released, wasn’t going to bother with that train wreck.

I have 3 mains, 2 of them have 100% map completion, the other only has 35%. I have 10 alts, who have roughly 10-30% map completion.

This is honestly really annoying. Why would they lock up content, especially something so important to the game that has been there from the start (and was readily accessible through the purchase of 3 trait books)

I think the saying, “don’t fix what isn’t broken” matches this problem.

If all of your alts have between 10-30% map comp then you probably wont have much of an issue. Most of your characters should have enough hero points to unlock everything right off the bat.

Nah – 10-30% at L80 can easily mean 0 to 20 Skill Challenges done because it usually means lots of waypoints and not much else.

morrolan.9608:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I don’t particularly consider 65 skill challenges to be “a lot,” but that’s just difference of opinion.

65 skills challenges is probably around 11 hours to complete for 1 toon. Add in multiple toons and it is a lot of time to regain what we already have..

I’m sorry, but it’s NOT 11 hours on one character. I have 15 characters currently and I’m working through challenges on them presently. The vast majority of them have very little world completion done, a lot of them have nothing open beyond the first few waypoints in their starter zone. Yet, you don’t see me kittening about this.

Edit: And I only get to play an hour an night if I’m lucky!

spoj.9672:

2mins per hero point is pretty reasonable. As long as you arent clearing mobs along the way and you have a few waypoints in various maps.

Once again, the point is that many WvW players have fully-geared, fully-unlocked alts that they play only in WvW. I have 14 toons with various levels of map completion, some with less than 10%. It’s clear that PvE-only players do not understand the WvW player point of view. For perspective, imagine that A-net announced that your traits would be locked until you had sufficient WvW player kills to earn them back, forcing you out of PvE and into WvW to do it. I’m sure you’d be a bit annoyed!

And i have said i completely understand your point of view. Im not a WvW player. But im not an open world PvE player either. I spend my time in dungeons and fractals. So 8 of my alts have literally only the routes to each dungeon entrance and no other map comp done. It effects me pretty much just the same as you except i only have 11 characters total.

But funnily enough i can accept it. Because i know the system will be better in the longterm. Yes im going to be bored out of my mind getting some of my alts the hero points they need. But im not going to throw a tantrum over it because i know there isnt a clear cut solution.

Why you need to do this on every alt i dont know. Ill only be doing it on 1 of each class. Because doubles of classes only serves the purpose of cosmetic variation.

spoj.9672:

And i have said i completely understand your point of view. Im not a WvW player. But im not an open world PvE player either. I spend my time in dungeons and fractals. So 8 of my alts have literally only the routes to each dungeon entrance and no other map comp done. It effects me pretty much just the same as you except i only have 11 characters total.

But funnily enough i can accept it. Because i know the system will be better in the longterm. Yes im going to be bored out of my mind getting some of my alts the hero points they need. But im not going to throw a tantrum over it because i know there isnt a clear cut solution.

Why you need to do this on every alt i dont know. Ill only be doing it on 1 of each class. Because doubles of classes only serves the purpose of cosmetic variation.

^^ This, and yeah in the same sitaution as spoj here.

spoj.9672:

Why you need to do this on every alt i dont know. Ill only be doing it on 1 of each class. Because doubles of classes only serves the purpose of cosmetic variation.

Not really true. You are forgetting the synergies you can get between racial skills and other traits, which I intentionally use in my builds. I’d rather do dishes, which I hate to do, than run around chasing skill points. At least with the dishes, the effort makes my life better. I play games to have fun and relieve stress, and skill point chasing is the opposite of that for me. Especially when I’ve already made the necessary investments to unlock all skills. Here’s how it went for me:

1) I understood what needed to be done to get a toon to level 80.
2) I paid money to a-net for skill slots.
3) I invested time and resources to level the toons (a chore which I hate).
4) I legitimately unlocked all skills on my toons.
5) A-net then changes the rules of the game, such that I would never have purchased most of my skill slots nor done the chores I’ve already done had this system been in place.

I’m glad you don’t mind, but I do.

spoj.9672:

Thats the same as making a hero point debt.

No, it doesn’t. You would be able to continue getting hero points until you’d have hit cap (the maximum possible amount).

spoj.9672:

I said grandfathering wont work because it would cause people to have different potential maximums.

Potential maximum of everyone would be the same – 400 + number of all hero challenges available, so, somewhere around 620 currently (not sure how many are there now), + those that will come with HoT.

spoj.9672:

I know that it is intended for everyone to have the same maximum. Which is why i proposed all those other solutions.

unnecesarily, as the cap would be the same for everyone.

spoj.9672:

Personally i feel its better to just take a small amount of flak when the patch goes alive. For the better of the system in the future. Controversial and unpopular amongst WvW exclusive players i know. But i would rather that than introduce the problems of all the other solutions.

Except those “problems” come not from my solution, but from your misunderstanding of it.

Except i dont think its fair that someone is able to work on unlocking their elite specs if they havent done enough hero challenges to completely unlock the core specs. Thus a debt is needed. Its essentially saying they never have to complete those extra skill challenges (they arent complete on the map but they may aswell be because you got free hero points).

And you are completely misunderstanding me on my other points. Dont really know how to explain it any other way. I know exactly how they want things to work. You repeating those to me has no relevance.

MaXi.3642:

Neox.3497:

I don’t understand why hero points should be “limited”

because they want to expand the system in the future, if the resource wouldn’t be limited, everyone would have farmed tons of it before new content which require it comes… so in the moment second expansion launches and they add more elite specializations for example, everyone will have more than enough hero points to unlock everything instantly… but they want people to progress through new content, not unlock everything immediately with previously farmed currency…

Uhm people with 100% world completion will be able to do that already.

spoj.9672:

Except i dont think its fair that someone is able to work on unlocking their elite specs if they havent done enough hero challenges to completely unlock the core specs. Thus a debt is needed. Its essentially saying they never have to complete those extra skill challenges (they arent complete on the map but they may aswell be because you got free hero points).

And you are completely misunderstanding me on my other points. Dont really know how to explain it any other way. I know exactly how they want things to work. You repeating those to me has no relevance.

AGAIN, the point is that the system announced will privilege PvE world completion over other forms of gameplay. I’m not asking that others reach my number of WvW ranks, so why should I be asked to reach their number of ‘skill challenges’?

Which is why they might make traits and skills auto unlocked in WvW. But if they dont then you are just going to have to suck it up.

lol I hope they triple the requirements and make it 100% world completion just so I can see these entitled whiners explode…

choovanski.5462:

CorrynnStarr.7942:

choovanski.5462:

if they don’t grandfather my 7 geared 80s i will just quit the game. i hate pve, and only wvw and pvp. previously i was able to gear and build my characters from doing just those. if all my progress is removed and i have to do awful boring pve to get my builds back I’ll just quit. it’s a lot of wasted time, and it’s anet basically spitting in my face.

NPR was awful, but at least i could use all the skill point scrolls from wvw and pvp to unlock traits. being forced to pve, wow so fun.

so sounds to me like your gonna throw a tantrum and toss out countless hours of fun cuz you wont spend a few hours running around hitting your f key to commune with a skill point location or kill some simple mobs that take less than 30 seconds to kill… hmmm? glad people like you dont run the country… oh wait….

it’s a video game. it’s supposed to be fun. most of my characters have close to 0% map completion so that’s a lot of walking. so, over 7+ hours of boredom to get my characters to the point where they are right now. I’m just not interested.

I’ve been playing Black Desert Online and really enjoying it. being forced to do pointless unfun pve to get things back that they have taken from me back, combined with bad pvp matchmaking, perma stealth, boring LS updates, and other issues i have with the game are enough to get me to quit. straw that breaks the camel’s back.

and as for your weird politics comment, seeing as im a neo-marxist with a degree in philosophy people like me definitely don’t run whatever country you are from.

look bud… clearly you dont like this game so why are you here? If another MMO has all you want like you claim, then go there and play the game you like, quit wasting your time here, nothing more needs to be said. Your degrees mean squat here bub, I dont care if your stephen hawking either.

Daddar.5971:

spoj.9672:

Except i dont think its fair that someone is able to work on unlocking their elite specs if they havent done enough hero challenges to completely unlock the core specs. Thus a debt is needed. Its essentially saying they never have to complete those extra skill challenges (they arent complete on the map but they may aswell be because you got free hero points).

And you are completely misunderstanding me on my other points. Dont really know how to explain it any other way. I know exactly how they want things to work. You repeating those to me has no relevance.

AGAIN, the point is that the system announced will privilege PvE world completion over other forms of gameplay. I’m not asking that others reach my number of WvW ranks, so why should I be asked to reach their number of ‘skill challenges’?

Not that it matters a whole lot now cuz they recently changed it, but it used to be we were FORCED to go into WvWvW to get our 100% map completion to make legendary weapons. also to fulfill all the achievement for jumping puzzles we had to brave through getting ganked at puzzles choke points to get credit for a PVE reward. We are all sooooo sorry you have to experience a different aspect off the game to get the content you want. /sarcasm off

The removal of WvW from world completion strongly suggests ANet will not require PvE for WvW characters to have all skills.

Really, this is a silly thread filled with people making as many negative assumptions as they can just to be kitten.

Daddar.5971:

spoj.9672:

Except i dont think its fair that someone is able to work on unlocking their elite specs if they havent done enough hero challenges to completely unlock the core specs. Thus a debt is needed. Its essentially saying they never have to complete those extra skill challenges (they arent complete on the map but they may aswell be because you got free hero points).

And you are completely misunderstanding me on my other points. Dont really know how to explain it any other way. I know exactly how they want things to work. You repeating those to me has no relevance.

AGAIN, the point is that the system announced will privilege PvE world completion over other forms of gameplay. I’m not asking that others reach my number of WvW ranks, so why should I be asked to reach their number of ‘skill challenges’?

so lets say all skills are unlocked while you are in WvW, would that make everyone happy?
If your in PVE you need to do skill challenges, while in WvW everyone gets access to all skills.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

lol I hope they triple the requirements and make it 100% world completion just so I can see these entitled whiners explode…

“entitled” kek

CorrynnStarr.7942:

choovanski.5462:

CorrynnStarr.7942:

choovanski.5462:

if they don’t grandfather my 7 geared 80s i will just quit the game. i hate pve, and only wvw and pvp. previously i was able to gear and build my characters from doing just those. if all my progress is removed and i have to do awful boring pve to get my builds back I’ll just quit. it’s a lot of wasted time, and it’s anet basically spitting in my face.

NPR was awful, but at least i could use all the skill point scrolls from wvw and pvp to unlock traits. being forced to pve, wow so fun.

so sounds to me like your gonna throw a tantrum and toss out countless hours of fun cuz you wont spend a few hours running around hitting your f key to commune with a skill point location or kill some simple mobs that take less than 30 seconds to kill… hmmm? glad people like you dont run the country… oh wait….

it’s a video game. it’s supposed to be fun. most of my characters have close to 0% map completion so that’s a lot of walking. so, over 7+ hours of boredom to get my characters to the point where they are right now. I’m just not interested.

I’ve been playing Black Desert Online and really enjoying it. being forced to do pointless unfun pve to get things back that they have taken from me back, combined with bad pvp matchmaking, perma stealth, boring LS updates, and other issues i have with the game are enough to get me to quit. straw that breaks the camel’s back.

and as for your weird politics comment, seeing as im a neo-marxist with a degree in philosophy people like me definitely don’t run whatever country you are from.

look bud… clearly you dont like this game so why are you here? If another MMO has all you want like you claim, then go there and play the game you like, quit wasting your time here, nothing more needs to be said. Your degrees mean squat here bub, I dont care if your stephen hawking either.

i think you need to take a relaxing bath and calm down.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

lol I hope they triple the requirements and make it 100% world completion just so I can see these entitled whiners explode…

Since when does wanting to keep the skills you’ve alreadyearned make a person entitled? Trolling much?