Guild Wars 2

warbignime.4610:

Celtic Lady.3729:

yakuza snowdragon.4639:

I’m happy stop your whining, its a free base game to new players, I paid for ultimate and I’m happy. peasant’s should go back to WoW

This sounds like the ravings of an eight-year-old…

Just sayin’.

You sound like 5

Just sayin

What’s the difference between the ravings of an 8 year old and a 5 year old?

BrosefStalin.3475:

Something, just as simple as a free character slot or $10-$20 discount to those that already purchased the core game while new players get both for their first purchase, something where as an early supporter I paid the full price already once and am willing to pay $30-$40 on top of that, would more easily solve the current dilemma AND an option like that from the start would have prevented the refund fiasco currently being dealt with. Basic good-faith business rewarding those already supporting you while welcoming new players in with the deal makes the most sense, and gives all sides, creators, new players, and veteran players, the best deals all around.

This is what needs to happen. Give existing players something to compensate for getting less product for the same price. A char slot or two, some gems, or maybe the option to get the core game for a friend or extra alt account.

Jordo.5913:

I despise playing Mesmers, Necros, nor Engineers. I had no reason to buy a chr slot.

If I had to buy a chr slot after recieving 5 chr slots to pick and choose from the 8 professions, I’m fine with that.

I like the look of the Revenant.

I have to pay 50 bucks for a game just to get the Revenant, and then 10 dollars more to make a Revenant. I am not okay with that.

GW1, added 2 classes, gave two chr slots. They added another 2 classes, they gave another 2 chr slots. They added no classes in EOTN, yet they still gave away, 2 more chr slots. I sometimes question if it’s the same Arenanet that is making GW2.

You can convert gold to gems so no you don’t have to spend $10 dollars for a new slot. Start saving some gold for a new character slot if you want to play revenant.

Guild Wars was released in 2005 and to be honest I wasn’t a big fan of it. So if gw2 was much like gw1 well I wouldn’t be playing this game as much as I do. This is a different game and the reason it is different is because it changed.

Going to have to pass on the expansion, too.

Been here since beta, but I just don’t see the value in what they are asking..

Will wait for it to go on sale, there is still much to do in the core game for me.

You know, I would be a lot more inclined to entertain the price of $50 for this xpac if the base game actually came with enough character slots to play all of the base classes… or if I could expand my bank without spending real money… or any other number of the myriad ways the developers are attempting to extort money out of the playerbase.

Shakunaw.9854:

I really think and advice everyone whining to stop, because they’re just overloading the servers and it doesn’t help anyone with it.
Complaining about the price won’t make it go lower, eventhough I have to admit I’m part of European countries where the average monthly salary doesn’t fit in the common rank of the European salaries, it is -quarter- of it, therefore the game would be rather overly expensive, however, stop crying and if you aren’t entirely dedicated to the game, don’t -pay- for the expansion.

And here we see the wild asskisser in its native environment. Be careful with your criticism, as they are easily offended.

Behellagh.1468:

CMM.6712:

Can you 2 please explain what the 5th race is for us all lol

Human, Norn, Asura, Charr, Sylvari.

Maybe you are a programmer and start counting from 0.

One could also get confused between humans and norn xD. Mayhe one is yet to figure out what norn is.

Oh wow shiet.

Hah someone go slap them already.

Lisjak. The expansions almost always cost more than the core game once they come out because the core game at that point has been sold on sale for quite awhile.

To the OP. As others have stated. The expansion costs 50$. There GIVING the original game to new players ON TOP OF THAT. in order to make sure that new members arn’t shafted into being locked into old content unless they drop 90 dollars on the spot. They did it to encourage new players to join the game. Lets take a look at what existing players are getting coming with the expansion for free…..Pretty much everything that isn’t directly related to PvE….. (wvw changes. TPvP changes. both are completely 100% free and available to everyone…they didn’t have to be.)

A bitz.3825:

I won’t be buying the expansion for 50$ as well and will just have to be patient and hope it gets a release of it’s own or a large sale a year after it’s been around. It really is a terrible deal to existing players, you are buying a second copy of a game you already own with no bonuses attached(standard one). Better to start a new account with such a deal.

I’m placing my bets on another mmo instead, which is starting its last closed beta next week for 20 bucks. If it’s good I think that’s where Ill stay and maybe pop back to check gw2 if the xpac gets released as a add on.

20 bucks for a closed beta? Now THAT my friend, is a sham.

Shifu.4321:

What’s the difference between the ravings of an 8 year old and a 5 year old?

Three years, duh.

kitten ! It’s really expensive! I have a Guild War 2, I only need addition and I am ready to give him $ 20, but $ 50! And considering the exchange rate in Russia, 50 $ … Guild Wars 2 was worth less than the cost of addition HoT!

Rashy.4165:

Linnael.1069:

Semantics. It’s false advertising. You’re naive if you think anything related to marketing and PR goes through or stays live on the internet without serious considerations.

I’m also guessing you didn’t read through the whole thread, where if you had followed the links you would have seen that the change wasn’t made until after a forum thread had been up complaining about the discrepancy for a good hour before the changes occured. I linked it once but I’ll do it again. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/From-the-Heart-of-Thorns-Q-A-Page/first#post5157198

The fact that this thread and all responses on it are timestamped hours after the presentation ended and obviously referring to the live at that point in time version of the page should make it obvious that the change was not conducted until after the discrepancy was called out and flamed, and was only conducted as a cheap response to the situation.

Also I’m seeing this thread get kind of off topic. This isn’t even really about the price. It’s about how scummy the marketing here was. Let’s keep the attention there and not get bogged down with subjectives about worth.

Alright. A discrepancy was noted, ArenaNet fixed it to reflect the change. For people who bought the game recently and feel it’s a rip-off or false-advertising (because really, those are the only people who have a right to make that claim), ArenaNet’s refund policy is very good when it comes to these situations.

I could buy it was a discrepancy if for months they hadn’t kept telling us this, and then on the day the pre purchase is announced they change it, don’t tell anyone, and then got caught out.

Just seems like they lied. You can’t seriously expect us to believe they made this decision today?

Scummy, scummy move.

Blackworm.2167:

Sylv.6514:

The character slot isn’t the problem at all. Adding a character slot to the cost wouldn’t change my mind. I could easily just buy more slots with gold. The problem here is $50 isn’t worth it and new players are being rewarded with way more for the price than veteran players. That is what is unacceptable.

Adding a character slot to the purchase, at the very least, justifies the extra $10 that you’re currently paying for nothing. Sure we could buy more slots for gold; but by that logic, we should just be able to buy HoT for gold. Same thing really, and I’d be okay with that.

The problem is the fact that, with the inclusion of the base game for free, HoT is essentially a standalone with less content than EotN (an expansion).
Veteran players will be paying, in total $50 (for the base game they already bought) + $50 (for the HoT expansion) = $100 for veterans, $50 for newcomers.

So unless we get a refund on the base game, veterans are objectively losing an extra $50 for nothing.

The point was, character slots are an established in-game upgrade you don’t need to spend cash for. It shouldn’t be added as an excuse to boost the price of an expansion. I would rather they lower the price for people who already have the base game. I agree with the rest of what you said.

No matter how you feel about the price, this is highly unethical and I’d be willing to bet it’s outright illegal too. You can’t advertise that you need to make an additional purchase to access certain content, then bundle them together with no option of purchasing them individually and delete the evidence.

I was pretty offended by this whole issue at first but the more I think about it, the more I am able to accept this. This is not to say that what ANet is doing here isn’t a slap across GW2 veteran’s faces, but most veterans prolly got access to a lot of living world stuff that newer players have to pay to gain access to. An argument to this point would be that some players might have missed out on some of the living world chapters and will never have access to it/have to pay for those chapters, but I think for most veterans it is a compromise. Another compromise (I’m surviving on these atm) is that I wouldn’t want people to miss out on an awesome offer just because I feel like I’ve been cheated (which I don’t anymore). If a friend who recently decided to buy GW2 got the core game for free, I’d be happy for him. One final optimistic thought I have is that the core game has been on sale many times already. When those popped up, I never felt bitter towards ANet for selling the game at a price lower than what I had purchased myself. In fact, I was happy ANet did this since it’ll bring in new players and keep the game going. To me, this offer isn’t that much different, at least conceptually. I felt offended at first, but in retrospect it was because of the way they marketed the product. Essentially, it feels like ANet is punishing veterans for supporting the game before the expansion, but I highly doubt ANet is purposely punishing vets. Instead it is just an oversight in their attempt to welcome new players; they forgot to account for how vets would feel by this offer.

Anyways, these are just my thoughts on the matter and I hope it will help some of the current playerbase relax and forgive ANet for this misstep. This is still by far the best MMO I’ve ever played and I don’t wanna see it fail, so if we can, I’d like to forgive ANet and hope they learn from this incident so that they don’t repeat the same mistake again.

Jordo.5913:

LOLOL

so you want him to start fresh with HoT? you mean, not take all the characters with hundreds and hundreds of hours upon into the Magumma Jungle?

he said he should get a free account, I was just pointing out that he can. Sure its an empty account but guess what? so are the free accounts for new players. They have to start fresh too. Or maybe they should get free level 80s and free legendaries, since some players seem to think everything should be free.

If its too much, don’t buy it. Nobody is forcing you to. I’m pretty sure you can stay viable in existing pve, pvp and wvw with the basic traitlines.

Wow, just wow Anet….

A loyal player for almost 3 years, purchasing several character slots, bag expansions etc and now you want to rip me off by making me pay for a game I already own in order to be able to use the expansion.

Meh unless a package without the core game (which you have been pushing like a drug dealer since the expac announcement) appears for purchase I will definitely not be partaking.

What company has the gumption to charge you twice for something and smile while they do it…….

Combination NC.9813:

CureForLiving.5360:

Creativity.3816:

This is unbelievably scummy. Pretty unethical and unfair if you ask me.

Assuming they had always planned to do a bait and switch. Most likely they only recently decided to make this change.

But if they already knew, why keep the FAQ as it was? They only changed that today, and the contents of the FAQ as it looked before could very well have influenced people’s decision to by the base game, either for themselves or someone else.

Yeah. The have been lying basically. It’s not like the people who make these pricing / policy decisions woke up this morning and made this change today. They’ve effectively been profiting off of this situation since the announcement, and when the FAQ first went up.

Why didn’t they announce it then? Why do it and try to hide it?

ArrogantHero.4965:

Pandaman.4758:

ArrogantHero.4965:

Celtic Lady.3729:

ArrogantHero.4965:

And food and water I need for my survival so there is a lot of value in that.

Yeah, but you don’t need it to come from a restaurant, which was the point.

Yeah, and I was being a smart@$$, which my point was I’m not complaining but all you others are. That’s the difference.

But you are complaining about people complaining. Also not participating in the Marvel movie discussion (also where did the train topic go?).

No I’m complaining about hypocrites. Didn’t you read my first post?

complain

verb (used without object)

1. to express dissatisfaction, pain, uneasiness, censure, resentment, or grief; find fault:
   He complained constantly about the noise in the corridor.

1. to tell of one’s pains, ailments, etc.:
   to complain of a backache.

1. to make a formal accusation:
   If you think you’ve been swindled, complain to the police.

Clearly you’re not complaining about an ailment or calling the cops on us, but you are finding fault (assuming you believe hypocrisy to be a fault) in our behavior and thus are expressing dissatisfaction about our personalities. I do believe that is complaining, good sir.

Of course I’m also expressing dissatisfaction about you expressing dissatisfaction about us expressing dissatisfaction over pricing, but I’m sure we can go deeper.

Would have been much nicer for the base expansion to be an in-game upgrade for 2800 gems. Add all the toys and extras on top for sure. But that would be $15 cheaper for existing players.

It is not really about the price. It is about acknowledging the support of current player base.

is that legal action i hear?

god kitten entitled gamers get a dam job, you get the base game for free the xpac is $50 deal with it or i don’t know don’t play it we will not miss you whinnying.

http://web.archive.org/web/20150401200009/https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/105801626-Guild-Wars-2-Heart-of-Thorns-FAQ

This is the main point.

Q: Do I have to own Guild Wars 2 to play the expansion?

A: Yes. Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns is an expansion to Guild Wars 2 and not a stand-alone campaign, and therefore it requires the base game to play.

With or without the core game, they still would have sold it for 49.99. The pricing is really not a surprise.

Shifu.4321:

A bitz.3825:

I won’t be buying the expansion for 50$ as well and will just have to be patient and hope it gets a release of it’s own or a large sale a year after it’s been around. It really is a terrible deal to existing players, you are buying a second copy of a game you already own with no bonuses attached(standard one). Better to start a new account with such a deal.

I’m placing my bets on another mmo instead, which is starting its last closed beta next week for 20 bucks. If it’s good I think that’s where Ill stay and maybe pop back to check gw2 if the xpac gets released as a add on.

20 bucks for a closed beta? Now THAT my friend, is a sham.

It very well could be. If it doesn’t meet up to my interests, I could wait for launch since it’ll be free to play but this game looks so cool to me and has a lot of features I think I’ll enjoy. It’s a risk I’m willing to take based on its style.

GW2 on the other hand is something I know inside and out and it’s style has become stale. The xpac in my eyes is not worth the deal they are offering. When (if) it is I will return for sure because gw2 is still a good game just abit old now graphically as far as the character models and clothing dynamics.

I don’t want to support that deal as it is.

I don’t give a crap about gems. If I want them I’ll buy them. They need to stop inflating the price of the content by tacking on monopoly money and give us an actual value proposition. Jesus I shouldn’t have to explain this to Anet, this is like Business 101…

Lets make this easier to understand..

There is no more Core game.. only Heart of Thornes. You can’t buy the core game anymore.

MashMash.1645:

jesters.9406:

Completely agree.

If the purchase page had started with $50 that includes HoT and 1 Character Slot, by the time I’d read along the options and got to the Ultimate edition I’d be like “YES ANET TAKE MY MONEY! GIMME THOSE EXTRAS AND THE GEM DISCOUNT” because it would actually feel like a really, really good and exciting deal. But as things stand, I’m feeling the complete opposite. And I say that after being hyped as all get out for HoT since it was announced at PAX.

I’m not adverse to spending money on this franchise—I had two GW1 accounts which both got kitted out with Factions, Nightfall and EotN (some of which Collectors editions) on the release day of each. But to a long term player, not just of GW2 but of the series, this is an incredibly disappointing move and leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

anet pls

It’s a giantkittenand slap in the face. Whoever was responsible for dreaming up this marketing plan should be given a kick.

Sadly, yes. I don’t feel like I’m a knee-jerk kind of person and I try to be very aware of acting entitled or unreasonable. But this time, yeah, I do feel slighted. And as a dedicated player, that’s not only nasty, it’s bad business.

I can think of better ways to pay money to get myself slapped in the face than this and actually enjoy it…

People that like it and want it will buy it.
Everyone else has the option to not buy it.There is nothing wrong with that.The game is buy to play so you won’t miss on anything if you wait 6+ months for a discount.

Pandaman.4758:

Do you believe the expansion is worth $50 though?

No, I don’t. But right now we do not know the full content that is included in HoT.

Maybe it is worth $50 for me when I know all content, that is included in HoT.

Vegeta.2563:

Lets make this easier to understand..

There is no more Core game.. only Heart of Thornes. You can’t buy the core game anymore.

If Anet wanted to make it that way they could. They have marketing and PR teams that get paid to make sure things like this aren’t a complete sham.

As it is their marketing is saying, “go away all players who bought GW2 on sale in the recent months. You thought you were ready for the expansion. Wrong……”

I agree with the majority of the opinions here. Hot at $50 it is very expensive. the rest of optionts (deluxe and ultimate) are just a joke.

GW2 at 0 euros it is a joke too, specially for the ones already have it.

But those opinions are just subjective, each one will be able to think as they want about it, some people can find it very cheap, who knows.

However this cant be discussed:
Saying: “you need to have gw2 in order to been able to play HoT” was a lie, and a it is a felony, called “misleading advertising”, due that there is no other option to have HoT but with GW2 attached to it.

So the truth is that you dont need to have GW2 to play HoT, cause when you buy HoT you will be able to play both games.
Misleading advertising: FELONY,

I recommend all of the people who bought GW2 since HoT was announced to go to the consumer bureau and report it as a felony.

And if you think like me, that 50 bucks is expensive, please dont preorder, and wait for Anet to reconsider and low the price.

Pandaman.4758:

ArrogantHero.4965:

Pandaman.4758:

ArrogantHero.4965:

Celtic Lady.3729:

ArrogantHero.4965:

And food and water I need for my survival so there is a lot of value in that.

Yeah, but you don’t need it to come from a restaurant, which was the point.

Yeah, and I was being a smart@$$, which my point was I’m not complaining but all you others are. That’s the difference.

But you are complaining about people complaining. Also not participating in the Marvel movie discussion (also where did the train topic go?).

No I’m complaining about hypocrites. Didn’t you read my first post?

complain

verb (used without object)

1. to express dissatisfaction, pain, uneasiness, censure, resentment, or grief; find fault:
   He complained constantly about the noise in the corridor.

1. to tell of one’s pains, ailments, etc.:
   to complain of a backache.

1. to make a formal accusation:
   If you think you’ve been swindled, complain to the police.

Clearly you’re not complaining about an ailment or calling the cops on us, but you are finding fault (assuming you believe hypocrisy to be a fault) in our behavior and thus are expressing dissatisfaction about our personalities. I do believe that is complaining, good sir.

Of course I’m also expressing dissatisfaction about you expressing dissatisfaction about us expressing dissatisfaction over pricing, but I’m sure we can go deeper.

LOL an expression in an expression within an expression! Expressception!

If i go to a movie, pay full price and enjoy it, i expect the second movie to be at the same level. I won’t pay for a movie which is 30minutes long compared to 2h long like the inital movie, just because it has the same name. Also if the quality is not improved compared to a movie that appeared 3 years ago, i also won’t pay. Why am i so sure “30 minutes” ? I am not…but i base my opinion on what “trailers” they showed off so far and the fact that they base the full price on what they shown.

At least that’s what ppl who rationalize value for money do.

Prove me wrong:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Question-about-value-price/first#post5158535

Actually the Revenant and 9 specialisations will be locked behind the expansion so they have to count. So I’d say that would be worth half the current professions as the specs aren’t full classes themselves.

If we’re only getting the 3 maps, and each just bigger than the Silverwastes then that’s around 1/4 of the current map – possibly.

New weapon and armour skins aren’t confirmed fully, but I’d imagine it’d be a fraction of what we currently have.

No performance increases have been hinted at yet.

WvW map and PvP gamemode haven’t been confirmed to be locked behind HoT (if they were they’d break the core game, the WvW map specifically)

We get new masteries, but most will be locked to the new maps.

For me personally, the pack is affordable, but the lack of character slot and losing out on the free core game because I’m already a player is leaving a bitter taste in my mouth.

Kysin.6349:

You don’t buy a sandwich and say “The cheese was 6$, but the rest of the sandwich was free”.

No but you dont buy a sandwich and complain you’re forced to pay for the napkin you’re given for free with your sandwich either. After all if you tell them you dont want the napkin they’re not going to discount the price for the sandwich because well its free!

Edit: added some clarifying detail

komokoro.7542:

$50 is a lot considering how many games you can buy on steam with that amount of money. The expansion pack should have cost $10—20 for the existing players and $30 for new players. I feel really sad about this.

How long do those steam games last you? Are you still playing Goat Simulator for hours on end?

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

So basically, if you’re not a new player then kitten you?

50$ for expansion AND a character slot MINIMUM! that is all i ask for. As far i can remember it always has been like this with anet on gw1, so why not now? I really can not understand that I have to pay either 10$ extra ingame OR pay 25$ extra to have some useless title and mini on top of the characterslot. Talk about bad ideas….

ELF.8496:

Although I must admit, it feels like the a giant carrot (dangling guild halls in front of players)

A bit like this?!

I have a suggestion. Give veteran players some unique (unavailable in shop) stuff instead of “free original game” which we already have. I don’t know, maybe some armor skin or outfit. You’ll end up making even more profit, because someone will definitely buy original game now (!) and then pay an additional $50 for aforementioned stuff.

P.S.
Excuse me, English is not my native language.

A game update that requires you to pay the same fee as for the original update? Not unheard of. But generally it only flies when the update is REALLY substantial. Which I rather doubt, at this point. And the fact they’re apparently not even adding some new character slots for existing accounts is downright abusive.

Leaving the whole pricing thing aside: for me, the doubts about HoT are more an issue of what the game is developing into. I prefer sandboxes, where I can explore at will and do content in whatever order I like. I dislike linear games with a passion. I detest grinds. And what I’ve seen of HoT so far promises both.

Let’s just say I’m discouraged.

I’m just leaving my two cents here…

While I’m probably buying the expansion since I can afford it, I still think that the choice of not giving to veteran players some sort of discount is bad, expecially when you’re giving a free base copy of the game to new players.
You can say “But…but senpai, that’s just a bonus!”, I don’t care.
Basically that just screams “**** you long time fan, we need more players to the game and we don’t care about you, you’ll be paying us anyway”.
For the past months I tried to bring my friends back to the game and since I know they’re not going to spend 45€ on a game that they’ve already paid 55€ at the time, I feel that all my work has been flushed down into a toilet.

So, as lover of the beautiful world of Tyria, thank you for continuing to support the game.
But as a customer, thank you for ruining my future experience in it(playing a MMO without friends is not so fun as you may think).

I’ve been playing for 6 months.. have spent quite a bit of money at the Black Lion Trader.. $50 with no char slot seems too steep to me so when the exp comes out, I will probably switch to a different game. The 3 guys I play with every night all had a negative reaction and say they won’t buy it for $50, and I’m going to play what my clan is playing. It was fun while it lasted however. That’s my 2 cents.

Unless you are part of their team that was responsible for the page that says (core game comes with xpac) we as of now do not have 100% proof that they meant to say the core game is a “bonus” for buying the xpac. That the expansion on it’s own is worth 50$.

Personally, I don’t think it is. They probably do though. It might have been a programming nightmare to do the things it offers using the system they have in place.

I’ll wait for a sale when I think it’s reasonable and spend my time and money else where.

dookleeto.3647:

Jordo.5913:

LOLOL

so you want him to start fresh with HoT? you mean, not take all the characters with hundreds and hundreds of hours upon into the Magumma Jungle?

he said he should get a free account, I was just pointing out that he can. Sure its an empty account but guess what? so are the free accounts for new players. They have to start fresh too. Or maybe they should get free level 80s and free legendaries, since some players seem to think everything should be free.

If its too much, don’t buy it. Nobody is forcing you to. I’m pretty sure you can stay viable in existing pve, pvp and wvw with the basic traitlines.

you are mixing a lot of people wanting a free 10.00 chr slot, with free legendaries and free level 80’s?

and yeah a new player has to start fresh, that’s what they get for putting off the game for so long, so I guess it’s okay to stick it to the loyal players and give them nothing for buying the game back at launch…only the new players get the “bonus” item

Largest flaw in this whole theory: it’s not an equivalent value. It doesn’t cost Anet ten dollars to give a new player an account. It just costs whatever it does to activate the account and keep them on them on the servers.

The $50 will go to the same places it usually does: development time, advertisement, the usual business. GW2 vanilla does not cost 20 percent of HoT’s budget. That’s absurd.

This in all likelyhood costs very little for Anet at this point, and as such, even if GW2 vanilla was not included with the expansion, we would not see much if any impact on the final price.

This expansion would cost the same, with or without new players getting a GW2 account.

And seriously, if the worst thing they do is favour new players a bit, you really gotta see how bad it gets in the really scummy MMOs out there. This ain’t a mobile cash grab, this is just people getting worked up over nothing.

Hell, I wish more companies let new players the vanilla game for buying the expansion.

Sold Out.7625:

azizul.8469:

Sold Out.7625:

azizul.8469:

Sold Out.7625:

Core game is a free bonus to a set Heart of Thorns price to incentivize new players to get the game and not have them pay double.

Your post is pointless.

Nobody misses you. Go away.

…while ignoring existing players…..

Ain’t you an Entitled Ethan?

how hard is it to make another purchase option of “xpac only edition” at slightly lower price?

Because THIS IS THE EXPANSION PRICE. Live with it. You don’t pay more for the Core game. But reading is hard, I know.

So the logic behind the fanboys is:
The expansion price is unreasonably high because the price of the expansion IS unreasonably high? Gotcha.

Baltov.9608:

I totally agree I never come on the forums and Q.Q but this is just simply stupid I will NOT pay for the core game again

The Vast majority don’t care enough to QQ about stupid things like this. Only a minor amount of the community is complaining about this and so they will come vent their angry out on forums.