Guild Wars 2

mrstealth.6701:

shadow.6174:

ReiCH.6273:

Ooh, Colin commented on another thread a few minutes ago, so here’s to hoping he’ll drop over here and make an official statement on things…

fingers crossed

says in Skritt voice: “Where? Where? Wheeere?”

lol ok right. Could you post a link or something to that comment? I got curious here.

Here

It’s also one of the most recent posts in the Dev Tracker on the main forum page

Huh, I checked the Dev Tracker so soon I saw that post, I must have missed the name then. Thanks for the link.

New Players get HoT + GW2 base game for $50

Veteran Players who have GW2 already should get 1 extra character slot (same value as buying GW2 when it’s on sale recently) for that $50 for the rev class. That’d probably calm most of the complaints.

New players get additional value, Veterans get additional value. Everything balanced.

Right now, new players get additional value, Veterans get no additional value, things out of balance.

Zunnar.8503:

The price isn’t the thing that gets me. It’s the total lack of pre-purchase bonus. There’s no incentive for me as an existing customer to pay early. The list of bonuses is totally blank.

Did people who bought GW2 after it came out get the same bonus as a standard pre-purchase exactly? No!

There should be an incentive for pre-purchasing beyond “you get to help us QA the game.”

You get a totally worthless title. Which they apparently feel is worth paying for a product you have no idea when you will actually recieve.

Beta access is nice to have, but it’s not something that really as any value. Once the game is out, it doesn’t mean anything. And they’ll be sending out invites to non-prepurchasers anyway.

This isn’t a kickstarter or early access project. They’re not selling pre-release access to their game in order to support it’s developement. It’s like paying for a reserved spot in the crown for a public event.

Even a 3-5 day head start would make more sense than trying to push beta access as your primary pre-purchase bonus.

shadow.6174:

says in Skritt voice: “Where? Where? Wheeere?”

lol ok right. Could you post a link or something to that comment? I got curious here.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Ascended-Gear-Anet-please-fix-this/first#post5173842

there, and there was a follow up too.. but not in here unfortunately

The real kick in the junk with the beta access is for those of us who farmed portals. We got.. 1 6 hour beta staggered into 2 hour segments, for dozens of hours farming, and now.. pay $50 or more if you want beta access.

This prepurchase fiasco just makes me mad about the portals all over again.

OK…I’ve been watching this situation unfold for a while now, and I want to add my impressions to the thread. First off, I am a long time player and fan of the Guild Wars/Guild Wars2 franchise, starting with GW when it first released. I’ve always been a fan of ANet and the community…they seem to be able to find the sweet spot in MMO gaming, IMO anyways. This is not to say that they’ve always made what I think is the right decision along the way any number of times. The big difference is that, in many cases when the community voices its displeasure/unhappiness with an ANet decision it gets considered and many times adjustments/corrections are made. What differentiates ANet from the rest to me has always been the desire to establish, nurture, and improve the community. There is no question in my mind that people like Gaile, Regina, Colin, Linsey, etc. are passionate about the game and do everything they can to make it a great experience for the players.

It’s clear to me and many others in the community that the way the pre-order situation has been handled thus far is not good, moreover, it does seem to needlessly penalize veteran players. I’m pretty sure that ANet will do something to address the situation. I have no idea when or what form this will take, and I can almost guarantee that not everyone will be fully satisfied with it. Nevertheless, I am certain that they are listening and something will be forthcoming from them.

I think it’s vitally important too, to keep the particulars of the situation straight. This has nothing to do with the devs. Having worked in the IT field for over 35 years and seen a few things along the way, it’s clear that this is a marketing messup. I have no idea who could have thought that this was in any way a good strategy, except maybe from some statistical/market analysis that said that this was the way to go. It’s also clear and should have been immediately clear to all at ANet that this would cause a firestorm of protest from veteran players, and so it has. I’d be curious to know whether this decision came from above ANet…that is from NCSoft, and, if it did, was it from anyone who was in any way in close contact with the community and the ANet devs. If it was NCSoft, they need to learn from this…if it was ANet marketing, same. I cannot and will not lay any responsibility for this at the feet of the ANet devs or community managers. Anyone who does is not accurately considering the totality of the situation (not that I have any inside knowledge of what exactly did happen).

In closing, I want to say that I will purchase the expansion, and I’m grateful to the ANet devs and community managers who have worked and cared so hard over the years to make the GW franchise a great one for us, the player community.

I still haven’t decided whether or not I will buy the expansion. The only reason I would buy the expansion is if the price comes down. There is no reason for Anet to charge that much for so little content.

Kumion.7580:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

No, this is not true. If the core game was free, it would be available for download on the website right now. It isn’t. It isn’t free. They want you to buy it (again) with HoT. Ridiculous.

If the core game was a separate serial code from HoT, or if veterans could opt to buy HoT + a character slot/fluff item/ or gems, this would not be a problem. Rebuying the core game is a problem.

I’ve been thinking the same think for a couple of days. If the base GW2 was TRULY FREE and WITHOUT VALUE it would be F2P right now.

kuittaa.7360:

Anet: hai gaisz, we want you to preorder a bag of stuff. We have three different deals!

Players: oh, wow?

Anet: yeah! It is so awesome. First bag of stuff costs 50!

Players: hmm sounds pricey, what’s in it?

Anet: stuff! It is awesome!

Players: ok, what about the other two bags?

Anet: well, second bag contains stuff and fluff. And it costs 1,5 times as much as first bag of stuff.

Players: … and the last one?

Anet: the last one, ok, that’s the most awesome. If contains stuff and FLUFF! With capitals! And it is very cheap, only twice the price of first bag, but the FLUFF is easily worth of all that extra.

Players: ok. But could you tell a bit more about the stuff in the bags?

Anet: well, for starters, we’re excited about the stuff and it will be awesome. But the biggest thing is that… You will get the core game for FREE!

Players: but we already have the core game, so surely we can give it to our friends so they can try out the game?

Anet: no, because the FREE core game is linked with stuff! It can’t be taken away because reasons. But the stuff is going to be awesome. And let’s not forget the fluff, or the FLUFF in most expensive bag of stuff.

Players: that sounds pretty … dumb.

Anet: but think about all the stuff! And also, you may or may not receive FREE feature updates! We can’t tell you anything really yet, but we’re very excited about it all.

Players: ok, but when do we get our bags of stuff?

Anet: we can’t tell you yet, other than when they are ready.

Players: will it be next month? This Fall? This year? Next year?

Anet: only thing we can say is that we will deliver all awesome bags of stuff once they are ready.

It’s wrong if i Read the Anet part with the voice of schwarzenegger and the players one with the Michael Jackson?

Otokomae.9356:

Well, people keep speculating about why HoT was $50 at all, saying that the free game for new players is factored in, or because Warlords of Draenor was $50 (the most expensive expansion in WoW’s history, and tied w/ HoT for the most expensive MMO expansion ever, atm), or that maybe there is just a mountain of new content that Anet hasn’t shown us yet that makes this kitten expansion.

But, if you go back to January 8 (a few weeks BEFORE HoT was even announced), you can find a a 2015 Yearly Projections statement made by Daewoo Securities, currently the LARGEST stock brokerage and investment bank in South Korea, in which they said that NCSoft would release an expansion called Heart of Thorns (weeks before the announcement) and then projected that Anet would sell at least 2 million copies of the expansion at $50 each. This is not a “guess” by analysts about the positive outcome, this was the largest brokerage in Korea saying “You need to sell 2 million copies of this expansion for $50 each or you will NOT make your quarterly projections for the end of 2015”.

You can read a summary of this on Daewoo Securities website here: http://goo.gl/ziO33b

This is essentially like Goldman Sachs telling a company “You must raise the price of your products by 15% this year, or your stock price will drop”. Goldman Sachs, of course, has no authority to actually raise those prices, but as the largest investment bank in the US, they can do more than just predict how stock prices will move.

So that’s it. $50 is the price. It kind of has to be. Maybe Anet will throw in some extras, I don’t know. But if you’re wondering “Why are they giving away the core game w/ the expac”, it’s it NOT entirely because they want to increase the game’s population in order to give everyone playing a better experience. It’s not even about adding more customers to the Gem Store, or anything like that. NCSoft was given a mandate from the most powerful investment bank in the country that essentially said “You must sell 2 million copies of this product at $50 each just to meet yearly projections… or else!”

So yeah, don’t expect a price drop.

That’s some very interesting information. Thanks!
I do have to wonder though, wouldn’t 2.3 million copies at $40 each make the same $?
I honestly don’t think it would take much for a net to exceed 2 million (if they haven’t already).

I refuse to pay the full price of a retail game for an expansion to a game I already own. I spent over 150$ us already buying the collectors edition and this game was supposed to grow and expand for free. Last time I purchase anything from NCsoft.

Quiznos.4296:

Otokomae.9356:

Well, people keep speculating about why HoT was $50 at all, saying that the free game for new players is factored in, or because Warlords of Draenor was $50 (the most expensive expansion in WoW’s history, and tied w/ HoT for the most expensive MMO expansion ever, atm), or that maybe there is just a mountain of new content that Anet hasn’t shown us yet that makes this kitten expansion.

But, if you go back to January 8 (a few weeks BEFORE HoT was even announced), you can find a a 2015 Yearly Projections statement made by Daewoo Securities, currently the LARGEST stock brokerage and investment bank in South Korea, in which they said that NCSoft would release an expansion called Heart of Thorns (weeks before the announcement) and then projected that Anet would sell at least 2 million copies of the expansion at $50 each. This is not a “guess” by analysts about the positive outcome, this was the largest brokerage in Korea saying “You need to sell 2 million copies of this expansion for $50 each or you will NOT make your quarterly projections for the end of 2015”.

You can read a summary of this on Daewoo Securities website here: http://goo.gl/ziO33b

This is essentially like Goldman Sachs telling a company “You must raise the price of your products by 15% this year, or your stock price will drop”. Goldman Sachs, of course, has no authority to actually raise those prices, but as the largest investment bank in the US, they can do more than just predict how stock prices will move.

So that’s it. $50 is the price. It kind of has to be. Maybe Anet will throw in some extras, I don’t know. But if you’re wondering “Why are they giving away the core game w/ the expac”, it’s it NOT entirely because they want to increase the game’s population in order to give everyone playing a better experience. It’s not even about adding more customers to the Gem Store, or anything like that. NCSoft was given a mandate from the most powerful investment bank in the country that essentially said “You must sell 2 million copies of this product at $50 each just to meet yearly projections… or else!”

So yeah, don’t expect a price drop.

That’s some very interesting information. Thanks!
I do have to wonder though, wouldn’t 2.3 million copies at $40 each make the same $?
I honestly don’t think it would take much for a net to exceed 2 million (if they haven’t already).

That’s the game they play with pricing. Find the point where you can maximize profit while not having your customers feel you are being greedy or ripping them off.

I think the reaction so far has shown that Anet chose poorly. Then compounded that by making more bad choices with the product packages. They would be selling more copies if the price was lower, or offered more value at the current price. Of course, they can’t be expected to make 10 million sales at $10, but they are going to have to do better than this.

Even still. What like 8 million core copies already purchased?
if they truly planned for 2 million HoT copies… That’s only a 25 customer retention rate. Even less since they’re targeting new customers as well…
A company doesn’t even need good customer service to hit 25 retention… Oh, wait…

Question for people who pre-ordered cheapest version (35£, 50$, 45€)

They say you will be able to upgrade the version. Right now that upgrade is not on my gemstore upgrade tab. However that might be because i don’t have Heart Of Thorns code yet. So my question to you guys, after you purchased it, does suddenly (next to the orignal game upgrade to deluxe option) appear an option to upgrade HoT into Deluxe? I would very puch appreciate it, if someone can answer this.

Forum ate my percent signs….

Quiznos.4296:

Even still. What like 8 million core copies already purchased?
if they truly planned for 2 million HoT copies… That’s only a 25 customer retention rate. Even less since they’re targeting new customers as well…
A company doesn’t even need good customer service to hit 25 retention… Oh, wait…

Some people own multiple accounts.

agrante.2810:

I don’t care about offering the core game free with the expansion, although I understand why some veteran players may feel outraged about this.

For me it’s just that considering what we expect to get and the previous pricing policies (also for other games) it feels overpriced, with a poor bundle of extras for a pre-purchase. Some of the features like guild halls should’ve been in the core game from the beginning anyway!

I think bundling in an extra character slot and lowering the price 10 €/$ for the base package would’ve been the consensus and the sweet-spot to have most of the community happy and spreading hype all over the internet, instead of outrage and boycott.

This whole thing looks like terrible PR and I’m not sure how much it will actually hurt the company – not only economically but also in morale – and if a more modest pricing and generous bundling wouldn’t have payed out more in the long run. I guess we’ll never know for sure.

The whole silence after the community’s reaction isn’t helping, either.

While a character slot would have been nice, they cannot lower the price further than it is now.

Quiznos.4296:

Forum ate my percent signs….

Percent signs are used as special code I believe. Try to turn off textile or check help to see how to use that sign.

Razor.9872:

agrante.2810:

I don’t care about offering the core game free with the expansion, although I understand why some veteran players may feel outraged about this.

For me it’s just that considering what we expect to get and the previous pricing policies (also for other games) it feels overpriced, with a poor bundle of extras for a pre-purchase. Some of the features like guild halls should’ve been in the core game from the beginning anyway!

I think bundling in an extra character slot and lowering the price 10 €/$ for the base package would’ve been the consensus and the sweet-spot to have most of the community happy and spreading hype all over the internet, instead of outrage and boycott.

This whole thing looks like terrible PR and I’m not sure how much it will actually hurt the company – not only economically but also in morale – and if a more modest pricing and generous bundling wouldn’t have payed out more in the long run. I guess we’ll never know for sure.

The whole silence after the community’s reaction isn’t helping, either.

While a character slot would have been nice, they cannot lower the price further than it is now.

They could, but that would require giving a partial credit to everyone that had already bought it.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Question for people who pre-ordered cheapest version (35£, 50$, 45€)

They say you will be able to upgrade the version. Right now that upgrade is not on my gemstore upgrade tab. However that might be because i don’t have Heart Of Thorns code yet. So my question to you guys, after you purchased it, does suddenly (next to the orignal game upgrade to deluxe option) appear an option to upgrade HoT into Deluxe? I would very puch appreciate it, if someone can answer this.

I’ve not pre-purchased, so I don’t know for sure, but I believe the option to upgrade to deluxe via gems is going to be available at some point, but isn’t yet.

MiniEquine.6014:

ReiCH.6273:

Morning everyone, so still no dev response to this?

There was a dev response back on page 68 or so. They are well aware of the community concerns and it will be relayed to the team.

What this means is that it’s known that there is discontent among the community, but not that something will or can be done about it. For the sake of the devs, I really hope they announce the challenging content soon. I’m going to buy the expansion when it comes off of pre-purchase and I know what I’m paying for, even if it’s not fully worth it right now, because I have gotten more than my share of enjoyment out of the game so far. I just don’t like the idea of pre-purchasing that the gaming community and developers think is the way of the future. Anet might not be the shining angel in the sky we once thought, but they are certainly better than many other devs out there and I see no reason for I, personally, to not continue to support them, eventually.

I bought the game in January for $10 and I /age’d my account last night. I have over 450 hours clocked, which means I’ve paid a grand total of $0.0222/hour to play this game. Compared to when I played WoW, I paid about $0.1533/hour to play that game. GW2’s cost/hour will continue to decrease for me but WoW’s never did because of the sub fee. I do not believe that WoW gave me almost 7x more content than this game does. I only really played WotLK and Cata, so essentially BC and Vanilla content was worthless to me outside of a way to get my characters to 80 and 85 respectively.

This.

papry.8096:

Quiznos.4296:

Even still. What like 8 million core copies already purchased?
if they truly planned for 2 million HoT copies… That’s only a 25 customer retention rate. Even less since they’re targeting new customers as well…
A company doesn’t even need good customer service to hit 25 retention… Oh, wait…

Some people own multiple accounts.

And some people would buy multiple expansions for those multiple accounts surely. I’m guessing at the 8 million anyhow.

But from year 1 numbers,
http://www.blogcdn.com/massively.joystiq.com/media/2013/08/gw2annivinfographic2.jpg
Even assuming no one bought the game in the last two years (easily offsetting multiple account purchases within year 1) that still only 57 percent retention. I’m genuinely concerned about any company that not only accepts, but plans, for that much costomer loss.
regardless an additional .3 million copies, or 9 percent more retention does not seem unheard of, especially if the reduced price by $10. (or you know, tossed in a character slot or 3 for retainers)

Kumion.7580:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

No, this is not true. If the core game was free, it would be available for download on the website right now. It isn’t. It isn’t free. They want you to buy it (again) with HoT. Ridiculous.

If the core game was a separate serial code from HoT, or if veterans could opt to buy HoT + a character slot/fluff item/ or gems, this would not be a problem. Rebuying the core game is a problem.

That’s right.
Core isn’t there to be free – it up-scales price of said expansion.

Anyway…

Im wondering if base game without HoT will get all those masteries + pvp and wvw stuff or rather HoT will be a patch with 1 class and 3-4 maps that we need to pay for to get this. (i hope that both pvp and wvw changes will be avaible in not HoT game version)

If not well…
You may as well delete GW2 because without this ‘expasion’ it will be like a bike without a handlebar…

I dont wanna feel handicapped without it.

Maybe we should all just shut up and be grateful – after all I just realised…

We get the Slap In The Face for FREE!!!!

I bet Newbies wont get one of those until Living Story Season 3

You aren’t paying more because the prepurchase tiers include the core game. The core game is included as a Free Bonus. I repeat: FREE BONUS. As was officially stated above, since many of you either failed to read it or failed to comprehend it.

Whether the tiers include the base game or not will not alter the prices.

Smallclaw.1650:

You aren’t paying more because the prepurchase tiers include the core game. The core game is included as a Free Bonus. I repeat: FREE BONUS. As was officially stated above, since many of you either failed to read it or failed to comprehend it.

Whether the tiers include the base game or not will not alter the prices.

The price might be free (which remains to be proven since you cannot buy the core game for $0 anywhere), but the value isn’t.

Smallclaw.1650:

You aren’t paying more because the prepurchase tiers include the core game. The core game is included as a Free Bonus. I repeat: FREE BONUS. As was officially stated above, since many of you either failed to read it or failed to comprehend it.

Whether the tiers include the base game or not will not alter the prices.

I agree that we simply cannot comprehend that something is labeled as free when it has a price listed directly below it!

Buy three tires get 1 free!
free detail on new car purchase!
No cleaning charge on rental returns!
This 80 page notebook comes with 20 bonus pages!
Free koolaid with cult membership!

Smallclaw.1650:

You aren’t paying more because the prepurchase tiers include the core game. The core game is included as a Free Bonus. I repeat: FREE BONUS. As was officially stated above, since many of you either failed to read it or failed to comprehend it.

Whether the tiers include the base game or not will not alter the prices.

That’s the thing. New players are going to get expansion for $50 and the core game “for free”. Veteran players had to pay for the core game and are going to pay the exact same value for the expansion. New players are getting core game as bonus, veterans aren’t getting any bonus if getting the basic version.

Frediosz.2718:

That’s right.
Core isn’t there to be free – it up-scales price of said expansion.

Anyway…

Im wondering if base game without HoT will get all those masteries + pvp and wvw stuff or rather HoT will be a patch with 1 class and 3-4 maps that we need to pay for to get this. (i hope that both pvp and wvw changes will be avaible in not HoT game version)

If not well…
You may as well delete GW2 because without this ‘expasion’ it will be like a bike without a handlebar…

I dont wanna feel handicapped without it.

You’ll get the new wvw map, overhaul, and stronghold without HoT. Masteries I don’t expect to see without HoT, as most are related to HoT zones.

stof.9341:

Smallclaw.1650:

You aren’t paying more because the prepurchase tiers include the core game. The core game is included as a Free Bonus. I repeat: FREE BONUS. As was officially stated above, since many of you either failed to read it or failed to comprehend it.

Whether the tiers include the base game or not will not alter the prices.

The price might be free (which remains to be proven since you cannot buy the core game for $0 anywhere), but the value isn’t.

Okay let me break it down.
GW2 is included in HoT whether you purchased Basic, Deluxe, or Ultimate. The value of GW2 is not free, no, but it has been included in these three tiers via prepurchasing as a Free Bonus. No one is paying more because it is included; if GW2 wasn’t included, the price of each tier would remain the same. All in all my reply has nothing to do with the value of the original game.

Smallclaw.1650:

You aren’t paying more because the prepurchase tiers include the core game. The core game is included as a Free Bonus. I repeat: FREE BONUS. As was officially stated above, since many of you either failed to read it or failed to comprehend it.

Whether the tiers include the base game or not will not alter the prices.

If an existing player purchases the game however, he does not the the “free bonus”,
or have you failed to comprehend the only complaint that makes sense

Rococo.8347:

Maybe we should all just shut up and be grateful – after all I just realised…

We get the Slap In The Face for FREE!!!!

I bet Newbies wont get one of those until Living Story Season 3

phah that really made me laugh

Overall, I’m sure ANet has noted the negativity surrounding the prepurchase bundles (it would be impossible not to note something so in ones face); let’s keep crying about it.

MMOGamer.6175:

I’ve been thinking the same think for a couple of days. If the base GW2 was TRULY FREE and WITHOUT VALUE it would be F2P right now.

No No……..Gw2 is free but only as an offer for new players. you can still buy it….ah no.
But HoT is still an expansion….it’s not a standalone because Anet say it is….
Veteran get the same deal than the newcomers HoT + the basegame.

Veteran have a amazing possibilities; they can link their account to HoT & keep all their advantages from their 3 years of playing: I mean lvl80, gears, Achievement.
They got:
– to play LS1 and newcomers can’t.
– LS2 for free and newcomers must pay.
– ton of stuff from dailylogin all past years.
And they also got ton of playtime from their 60$ these past 3 years.
So they only have to pay 50$ for HoT. After all they bought thing on the gemstore for the past 3 years but Anet doesn’t make money there….So they are not really founding the game now.

Seriously they get way more stuff than the newcomer on GW2.
How can they find that this a bad deal.

I think Anet could give a solution for everyones problem! Its easy to satisfy alot of people, give the people who already have the core game an additional key to give away to friends or family (or create a second bank account). Edit: I mean just the CORE game

Its easy to do and they satify more people! They will get an additional 5 character slots and they could use it to trade to themselves.

I see the point Anet has and i do understand them why they need to get the pricing this way and yes i think its to high for an expansion at this rate, but we havent seen the full map yet and story so maybe its bigger then expected.

But still i will buy it when i have the money … And everyone who complains would do the same though

Smallclaw.1650:

Okay let me break it down.
GW2 is included in HoT whether you purchased Basic, Deluxe, or Ultimate. The value of GW2 is not free, no, but it has been included in these three tiers via prepurchasing as a Free Bonus. No one is paying more because it is included; if GW2 wasn’t included, the price of each tier would remain the same. All in all my reply has nothing to do with the value of the original game.

So, you admit that the Core GW2 has value. And then if I buy HoT, ANet is robbing me of the value of one “Core GW2” because for all purposes I should own two of that item, yet I only end up with one, despite paying the exact same amount as a new player.

Pretty simple reasoning in the end.

Smallclaw.1650:

Overall, I’m sure ANet has noted the negativity surrounding the prepurchase bundles (it would be impossible not to note something so in ones face); let’s keep crying about it.

yes that is the right strategy, the more people voice their concern the more the devs will know they will be losing sales,
also (it is already happening) it will bring the attention of the media, which will report on it
(you don’t jump down in the mud and expect to come out clean)

both of this factors could (i’d say should, but that shouldn’t have happened in the first place) make them try to make up for their underhanded actions

Smallclaw.1650:

stof.9341:

Smallclaw.1650:

You aren’t paying more because the prepurchase tiers include the core game. The core game is included as a Free Bonus. I repeat: FREE BONUS. As was officially stated above, since many of you either failed to read it or failed to comprehend it.

Whether the tiers include the base game or not will not alter the prices.

The price might be free (which remains to be proven since you cannot buy the core game for $0 anywhere), but the value isn’t.

Okay let me break it down.
GW2 is included in HoT whether you purchased Basic, Deluxe, or Ultimate. The value of GW2 is not free, no, but it has been included in these three tiers via prepurchasing as a Free Bonus. No one is paying more because it is included; if GW2 wasn’t included, the price of each tier would remain the same. All in all my reply has nothing to do with the value of the original game.

Let me break it down for you.
let’s say I’m a regular at my local breakfast diner, and I’m halfway through a meal of 3 eggs, cost $10
The diner then offers 3 free sunny side uppers for free with purchase of toast, but only to people they don’t recognize.
Here I’ve already got eggs and have to pay for them, but no toast.
Toast costs $50

papry.8096:

MMOGamer.6175:

I’ve been thinking the same think for a couple of days. If the base GW2 was TRULY FREE and WITHOUT VALUE it would be F2P right now.

No No……..Gw2 is free but only as an offer for new players. you can still buy it….ah no.
But HoT is still an expansion….it’s not a standalone because Anet say it is….
Veteran get the same deal than the newcomers HoT + the basegame.

Veteran have a amazing possibilities; they can link their account to HoT & keep all their advantages from their 3 years of playing: I mean lvl80, gears, Achievement.
They got:
– to play LS1 and newcomers can’t.
– LS2 for free and newcomers must pay.
– ton of stuff from dailylogin all past years.
And they also got ton of playtime from their 60$ these past 3 years.
So they only have to pay 50$ for HoT. After all they bought thing on the gemstore for the past 3 years but Anet doesn’t make money there….So they are not really founding the game now.

Seriously they get way more stuff than the newcomer on GW2.
How can they find that this a bad deal.

^^^

KGS.9842:

Smallclaw.1650:

Overall, I’m sure ANet has noted the negativity surrounding the prepurchase bundles (it would be impossible not to note something so in ones face); let’s keep crying about it.

yes that is the right strategy, the more people voice their concern the more the devs will know they will be losing sales,
also (it is already happening) it will bring the attention of the media, which will report on it
(you don’t jump down in the mud and expect to come out clean)

both of this factors could (i’d say should, but that shouldn’t have happened in the first place) make them try to make up for their underhanded actions

I agree with you two so I am adding my voice of protest here too.
Also love your signature – I have something similar on mmorpg.com

I can’t figure of why people are defending Anet’s decisions on the bundles, it’s like they want to be ripped off. I personally spend a lot on the gem store to gain items I want and in turn support the company. Since I started playing the amount I spent is probably more than a monthly sub fee. Which leads me to another question how many of these “white knights” actually support this game through gems? Cause as of how much I’ve spent on this game I have a valid reason to be upset when I know I’m being ripped off. This expac costing $50 for what they’ve shown and no character slot must be a late April Fool’s joke…

Lyger.5429:

I can’t figure of why people are defending Anet’s decisions on the bundles, it’s like they want to be ripped off. I personally spend a lot on the gem store to gain items I want and in turn support the company. Since I started playing the amount I spent is probably more than a monthly sub fee. Which leads me to another question how many of these “white knights” actually support this game through gems? Cause as of how much I’ve spent on this game I have a valid reason to be upset when I know I’m being ripped off. This expac costing $50 for what they’ve shown and no character slot must be a late April Fool’s joke…

Neithermind new players are good.
The more they are; the less I have to pay to keep playing………..I mean the more the dev get money to devellop extra stuff that I can play……That’s good for us all.

Smallclaw.1650:

You aren’t paying more because the prepurchase tiers include the core game. The core game is included as a Free Bonus. I repeat: FREE BONUS. As was officially stated above, since many of you either failed to read it or failed to comprehend it.

Whether the tiers include the base game or not will not alter the prices.

It’s not FREE. I’ll go out on a limb and say you have no idea where that FREE “pricetag” is being absorbed.

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

Marketing hogwash. Absolute nonsense. You say that you included the core game as a “free” bonus.. or how about we flip it around and say the expansion is “free” with the purchase of the core game?—Spin it any way you like, it’s still going to be nonsense.. a load of “cow pie” marketing. What about those of us that has been with you for about three years now. Those of us who has as consistently as you were releasing content updates, been purchasing Gems to support your arguably fine work. You don’t care about the people that has been helping you get your salaries, at all? It never occurred to ArenaNet to provide means of purchasing the expansion alone, at a lower price than the forced bundle, as a gesture of thanks to all of those who has been supporting you through these past years—some since Guild Wars’ days?

It’s only natural that people get upset about the price tag, and the fact that you are basically giving the veteran players the middle finger, indirectly saying you don’t care about them, and that it’s all about these new players that gets the core game for “free”. As a marketing lead, that should be blatantly obvious to you. Myself, I’m now upset because you (as-in ArenaNet) are trying to spin it into some hogwash “the core game is free”. How is that helpful to those of us who’s owned it for about three years already? We don’t even get a extra account out of the deal. But sure, those who hasn’t supported you, the new players, they of course get something. Wait.. what? The people who has not helped fund the further development and survival of the game, are getting something extra, but not your veterans? You have to see how absolutely ridiculous that is.

Don’t worry though, as upset as I am now with how ArenaNet responds to the subject brought up, I already went and bought the Ultimate option immediately as I heard Colin say it was available during the PC Gaming Show at E3, because I wanted to support you. Even if there were a slightly cheaper expansion-only option, I very well may have done the same. After all, it’s because I like the game and wanted to support it that I’ve spent thousands of US Dollars on Gem Store purchases throughout these years, for my characters, on Gifts, etc. But you guys are making me oh-so irritated and annoyed with your marketing and responses right now.

People have a right to be upset. You are not acknowledging that we have all contributed in one way or another to making Guild Wars 2 a marketable game. Without the players, you would have nothing, Gem Store purchases aside, as nobody wants to play a MMO with no players. The least you could have done was provide a expansion only option for the veterans of your game.
____

Note: I am not mad at Regina, I use words such as “you” in my response. I am frustrated with ArenaNet. Regina is simply doing a job, and are likely told what to respond by some suits even higher up.

Lyger.5429:

I can’t figure of why people are defending Anet’s decisions on the bundles, it’s like they want to be ripped off. I personally spend a lot on the gem store to gain items I want and in turn support the company. Since I started playing the amount I spent is probably more than a monthly sub fee. Which leads me to another question how many of these “white knights” actually support this game through gems? Cause as of how much I’ve spent on this game I have a valid reason to be upset when I know I’m being ripped off. This expac costing $50 for what they’ve shown and no character slot must be a late April Fool’s joke…

Well if i read it as an foreigner (Im from the netherlands) it said with the two other bundles an additional character slot

If i transelate it directly or take it litterly it means (in my opinion) you will get 2 char slots

Am i wrong here?

KGS.9842:

Smallclaw.1650:

Overall, I’m sure ANet has noted the negativity surrounding the prepurchase bundles (it would be impossible not to note something so in ones face); let’s keep crying about it.

yes that is the right strategy, the more people voice their concern the more the devs will know they will be losing sales,
also (it is already happening) it will bring the attention of the media, which will report on it
(you don’t jump down in the mud and expect to come out clean)

both of this factors could (i’d say should, but that shouldn’t have happened in the first place) make them try to make up for their underhanded actions

All of the complaining and uproar already has the media’s attention. Rah, rah. Blah, blah…

Character slot or 800-1000 gems at the Basic price point would likely have prevented most of this assuming it was given when account code is added to existing account, while new accounts get the standard 5 character slots + bank slot.

There is still the problem of the FAQ change (core game required for expansion vs. core game included with expansion).
That problem is exacerbated by the refund offered which includes a termination of your account and non-refund of gem purchases according to threads / screen shots on Reddit.

Then there’s also the issue of the purchase page stating: “Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)”
No mention here (https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/94582027-Heart-of-Thorns-Pre-Purchase-FAQ) that this does not include a new copy of core for a returning customer.
No mention here (https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/94582027-Heart-of-Thorns-Pre-Purchase-FAQ) that this does not include a new copy of core for a returning customer.
The fact that this does not include core for returning customer only seems to be on the forum / stated in service ticket responses where people asked for their new second account.
From a legal contract perspective I would change this: “Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)” to "Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game for new accounts created with this purchase) [emphasis added] ASAP. Under contract ArenaNet is offering Core + Expansion to every purchaser and only delivering Expansion to existing users. This opens them up to a class action law suit in the US, probably in Europe too considering the consumer protections.

And because of all the controversies around this pre-purchase pricing in addition to the $50 price tag and the resulting malcontent from a large section of the community they have now vastly increased the level of scrutiny people are giving to the expansion in terms of content and perceived value.
Essentially this snafu and lack of character slot or 800-1000 gems at the Basic price point for existing players / inclusion of core for new players has brought this all to light in the worse way possible and has likely cost untold thousands of dollars in pre-purchases and who knows how much in ultimate sales (both to returning and new customers).

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a bigger marketing snafu on an expansion.

Quiznos.4296:

Even still. What like 8 million core copies already purchased?
if they truly planned for 2 million HoT copies… That’s only a 25 customer retention rate. Even less since they’re targeting new customers as well…
A company doesn’t even need good customer service to hit 25 retention… Oh, wait…

Once again, Daewoo Securities has the answer for you: http://www.kdbdw.com/bbs/download/193934.pdf?attachmentId=193934

GW2 has so far sold 4.6 million copies worldwide. The number they gave NCSoft earlier this year (2 million in sales for HoT) was based on previous sales of GW1 expansions in comparison to GW1 core game sales; basically, in GW1, about 50% of core game accounts bought each of the expansions at the time of release. So Daewoo Securities just said, " Well, based on GW1 sales figures, we expect that your 4 million GW2 core accounts should translate to 2 million in sales for the expansion by the end of the year."

So yeah, 50%.

Arena Net Financial Department:
Person 1: Lets make HoT $50 with base game and character slot and have other deluxe versions if the player chooses to upgrade.

Person 2: Lets make HoT $50, no character slot and add the base game as a “gift”. This way current players will be forced to buy the deluxe or ultimate if they need a character slot to play Revenant and we’ll profit!!

Person 3 & 4: Yay for profit!

Mooncaller.9634:

That problem is exacerbated by the refund offered which includes a termination of your account and non-refund of gem purchases according to threads / screen shots on Reddit.

Come on. It’s was obvious that the core game would have an offer with HoT. Anet never say otherwise………..

Mooncaller.9634:

Then there’s also the issue of the purchase page stating: “Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)”
No mention here (https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/94582027-Heart-of-Thorns-Pre-Purchase-FAQ) that this does not include a new copy of core for a returning customer.
No mention here (https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/94582027-Heart-of-Thorns-Pre-Purchase-FAQ) that this does not include a new copy of core for a returning customer.

But it’s a FREE BONUS not a purchase, kitten.

Mooncaller.9634:

From a legal contract perspective I would change this: “Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game)” to "Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns expansion(includes Guild Wars 2 core game for new accounts created with this purchase) [emphasis added] ASAP. Under contract ArenaNet is offering Core + Expansion to every purchaser and only delivering Expansion to existing users. This opens them up to a class action law suit in the US, probably in Europe too considering the consumer protections.

FAQ is perfectly clear: It’s include in it. They don’t change the FAQ….

Mooncaller.9634:

to the expansion in terms of content and perceived value.

I’m sure gonna have 1K hour of content; I mean jumping mushroom, gliders, a new class that you can create once you have 140 gold.

Mooncaller.9634:

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a bigger marketing snafu on an expansion.

I’m sure Anet will be fine. They will have ton of new players.

So if we want to add to the discussion about the “free” GW2…

Does that including living story content? Season 2 then, considering season 1 cant be replayed.

I mean think about it. They are selling HoT as the direct story sequel to season 2. Playing HoT without having played season 2 would be like watching Return Of The King without having watched The Two Towers (and there is no Fellowship Of The Ring).

New players having “only” GW2 would not have this content, it cost extra, yes? Or are new players getting living story season 2 for free as well? Is this baked into HoT?

Just some curious thoughts.