Guild Wars 2

Ayrilana.1396:

Nexus.3071:

Ayrilana.1396:

Nexus.3071:

Why not just give us another CD key for the core game? I mean we already paid $60 for the original when it came out…plus this would give us the opportunity to have other people play the game that might end up buying it for themselves. That means free advertising for you and we don’t feel quite as ripped off. OR just knock $20 off the expansion price for members who already own the core game…. I really feel like the original players are getting the short end of the stick here…..

MATH for the original player:
original game (on release date) = $60
expansion + nothing for original players = $50
TOTAL = $110

MATH for new players:
original game = free
expansion (which includes the original game) = $50
TOTAL = $50

So there’s a $60 deficit for people who were loyal and bought the game when it originally released… That’s basically punishing people for buying the game years ago. Not cool…

Were you complaining when they sold the game for $10 those couple weekends? Are you upset when you buy a game for $60 and years later its price drops? You need to realize that prices of games drop over time. Your value hasn’t diminished because someone X amount of years later got it for cheaper.

I think you missed the point completely…. I’ll explain more simply for you, I don’t care that the price dropped… I payed $60 for this game at launch because it was awesome. I have no problem paying $60 for a good game. But $50 for an expansion? Plus new players get the old game for free? Give me some incentive to pay more for less….gems/in-game content/character slots/something. I will gladly pay $35 for “just the expansion” as I already own the core game but not $50.

Maybe you should look at the math that you tried to educate us with. That deficit that you complained about was all from the core game being a free bonus for new accounts. Of that $60 deficit, $50 of it was part of the sales from those who purchased it during those couple of weekends. If you had an issue with the $60 deficit then you had an issue with the $10 sales.

So um…you missed the point again lol…but ok…and no, $10 sales are awesome, but $50 for an “aged” game’s expansion…no me rikey. But hey, you can pay the $50 for it if you want. But I would bet, that if you already own the game, you wouldn’t have any complaints about paying less for the expansion…unless you like getting ripped off.

Nexus.3071:

So um…you missed the point again lol…but ok…and no, $10 sales are awesome, but $50 for an “aged” game’s expansion…no me rikey. But hey, you can pay the $50 for it if you want. But I would bet, that if you already own the game, you wouldn’t have any complaints about paying less for the expansion…unless you like getting ripped off.

There are games a heck of a lot older that charge a whole lot more (effectively) for an expansion. And no… I wouldn’t have complained if the price were less… I’d have still bought two of the Ultimate equivalents regardless. When you throw in all the content to date as well as what’s to come it’s a tip of the hat to ANet for all the work they put into a sub-free game. There’s no “getting ripped off” here at all. It’s my opinion that it’s worth the money, and your opinion has no relevance.

Nexus.3071:

Ayrilana.1396:

Nexus.3071:

Ayrilana.1396:

Nexus.3071:

Why not just give us another CD key for the core game? I mean we already paid $60 for the original when it came out…plus this would give us the opportunity to have other people play the game that might end up buying it for themselves. That means free advertising for you and we don’t feel quite as ripped off. OR just knock $20 off the expansion price for members who already own the core game…. I really feel like the original players are getting the short end of the stick here…..

MATH for the original player:
original game (on release date) = $60
expansion + nothing for original players = $50
TOTAL = $110

MATH for new players:
original game = free
expansion (which includes the original game) = $50
TOTAL = $50

So there’s a $60 deficit for people who were loyal and bought the game when it originally released… That’s basically punishing people for buying the game years ago. Not cool…

Were you complaining when they sold the game for $10 those couple weekends? Are you upset when you buy a game for $60 and years later its price drops? You need to realize that prices of games drop over time. Your value hasn’t diminished because someone X amount of years later got it for cheaper.

I think you missed the point completely…. I’ll explain more simply for you, I don’t care that the price dropped… I payed $60 for this game at launch because it was awesome. I have no problem paying $60 for a good game. But $50 for an expansion? Plus new players get the old game for free? Give me some incentive to pay more for less….gems/in-game content/character slots/something. I will gladly pay $35 for “just the expansion” as I already own the core game but not $50.

Maybe you should look at the math that you tried to educate us with. That deficit that you complained about was all from the core game being a free bonus for new accounts. Of that $60 deficit, $50 of it was part of the sales from those who purchased it during those couple of weekends. If you had an issue with the $60 deficit then you had an issue with the $10 sales.

So um…you missed the point again lol…but ok…and no, $10 sales are awesome, but $50 for an “aged” game’s expansion…no me rikey. But hey, you can pay the $50 for it if you want. But I would bet, that if you already own the game, you wouldn’t have any complaints about paying less for the expansion…unless you like getting ripped off.

Now. That post of yours was about the core game being free to new players and how unfair it was. Nowhere were you complaining about the price of the expansion. It wasn’t until later posts that you either revealed your true complaint with all of this or you changed your argument. Also keep in mind that everyone, including new players, are paying the same price for the expansion.

As far as aged games charging so much for an expansion, look at WoW. It’s like 10-11 years old and how much did it charge for the latest expansion? Yeah…

Ayrilana.1396:

As far as aged games charging so much for an expansion, look at WoW. It’s like 10-11 years old and how much did it charge for the latest expansion? Yeah…

Don’t forget the additional $180 per year access fee just to play the expansion you paid for.

Nexus.3071:

Ayrilana.1396:

Nexus.3071:

Ayrilana.1396:

Nexus.3071:

Why not just give us another CD key for the core game? I mean we already paid $60 for the original when it came out…plus this would give us the opportunity to have other people play the game that might end up buying it for themselves. That means free advertising for you and we don’t feel quite as ripped off. OR just knock $20 off the expansion price for members who already own the core game…. I really feel like the original players are getting the short end of the stick here…..

MATH for the original player:
original game (on release date) = $60
expansion + nothing for original players = $50
TOTAL = $110

MATH for new players:
original game = free
expansion (which includes the original game) = $50
TOTAL = $50

So there’s a $60 deficit for people who were loyal and bought the game when it originally released… That’s basically punishing people for buying the game years ago. Not cool…

Were you complaining when they sold the game for $10 those couple weekends? Are you upset when you buy a game for $60 and years later its price drops? You need to realize that prices of games drop over time. Your value hasn’t diminished because someone X amount of years later got it for cheaper.

I think you missed the point completely…. I’ll explain more simply for you, I don’t care that the price dropped… I payed $60 for this game at launch because it was awesome. I have no problem paying $60 for a good game. But $50 for an expansion? Plus new players get the old game for free? Give me some incentive to pay more for less….gems/in-game content/character slots/something. I will gladly pay $35 for “just the expansion” as I already own the core game but not $50.

Maybe you should look at the math that you tried to educate us with. That deficit that you complained about was all from the core game being a free bonus for new accounts. Of that $60 deficit, $50 of it was part of the sales from those who purchased it during those couple of weekends. If you had an issue with the $60 deficit then you had an issue with the $10 sales.

So um…you missed the point again lol…but ok…and no, $10 sales are awesome, but $50 for an “aged” game’s expansion…no me rikey. But hey, you can pay the $50 for it if you want. But I would bet, that if you already own the game, you wouldn’t have any complaints about paying less for the expansion…unless you like getting ripped off.

All your posts continue to show that you still don’t understand how it works.

Let’s put this in a different perspective then:

You like going to an amusement park. You buy your season pass for a year and they have 5 rides, of which you are allowed to ride because of the season pass. After the year is up, they build 3 new rides, but you can only ride these rides with an updated season pass. They say, however, that if you are new, then you can buy the updated season pass and get to go on the new and old rides, knowing full well that new people were never able to ride the old rides in the first place. They use this as an incentive to bring people in.

You only ever agreed to pay for the first 5 rides when you signed up. Anything else they did for you (the free T-shirt, the free hot dog per visit, the free stage shows, etc.) were on the park and you got to enjoy them while you were going to the park during that first year. Some shows came and went, never to return again, but you got the opportunity to see them. You already got your money’s worth. You are literally complaining that you have to pay for goods or services rendered (or to be rendered), and you feel like you deserve to get a better deal than the new people because you paid in the very beginning but have been using the park, using their facilities, and riding the rides for the past year.

It’s excruciatingly selfish. This isn’t even a “poor Anet needs da money tho” post. Frankly, if they want to stay competitive then they have to price their product competitively. If that’s your complaint, then that’s fine! There’s plenty of viable reasons why this expansion may be overpriced. To me it is not, but only after they essentially knocked it down $10 (I was going to buy an additional character slot after the Revenant anyway, because I only had 6 slots). Your complaint is about entitlement though, of which you, I, and everyone else has none.

VOLKON.1290:

I don’t think you put a lot of thought into this here:

“-Then why not include a free key for the core game along with our purchase?”

Really… what are you going to do with it? Make an alt account that would still need to purchase the expansion? Give it to someone else… that would still need to buy the expansion when they could have bought the whole thing at once?

I’m not saying that I would want a free extra key for the core game. I’m saying that if the core game is supposedly included for free, then I’d like to see something for it. Otherwise I can’t shake the feeling that I’m paying for something I’m not getting.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

VOLKON.1290:

I don’t think you put a lot of thought into this here:

“-Then why not include a free key for the core game along with our purchase?”

Really… what are you going to do with it? Make an alt account that would still need to purchase the expansion? Give it to someone else… that would still need to buy the expansion when they could have bought the whole thing at once?

I’m not saying that I would want a free extra key for the core game. I’m saying that if the core game is supposedly included for free, then I’d like to see something for it. Otherwise I can’t shake the feeling that I’m paying for something I’m not getting.

I don’t see how it can be any more clear. The core game is not supposedly included for free unless you’re a new player (who needs the core to play as well). New players that buy the expansion get the core as well. Vets, already having the core, do not.

And… who cares? Giving new players the core as well in no way hurts me or affects my game play, with the possible exception of there being new players around. I’m not losing anything, I’m still gaining the expansion.

VOLKON.1290:

And… who cares? Giving new players the core as well in no way hurts me or affects my game play, with the possible exception of there being new players around. I’m not losing anything, I’m still gaining the expansion.

You are losing money. A lot of money.

-They pay $50 and get HOT + the core game.
-You pay $50 and get HOT.

Since you are paying the price of a full game for an expansion, it is hard to believe that the core game is free. It seems to be included in the price tag, and you are paying for something you aren’t getting.

The core game is not without value. So if you are not getting the core game (because you already have it) the expansion should be cheaper for you.

Does it have monetary value? The core game is now free if you buy HoT. You can not buy the core game from Anet anymore.

“To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.”

This explains it all. The expansion is 50. This does not include any value for the core game. That is free. You may perceive it differently, but they answer this above.

So you say that new players get a better value. Sort of, on the surface it looks that way. But as a Veteran player you’ve had a lot more time with the game. And depending on when you started playing, a lot more value that new players won’t have or even see in some circumstances.

Perhaps that isn’t enough, that will depend on each player. Anet is not going to remove the core game from buying HoT, this is how they want to sell it. They aren’t going to give a discounted copy, because HoT is 50. You could wait for a sale, or buy from a 3rd party retailer closer to launch. These might give discounts, and that is up to you.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

VOLKON.1290:

And… who cares? Giving new players the core as well in no way hurts me or affects my game play, with the possible exception of there being new players around. I’m not losing anything, I’m still gaining the expansion.

You are losing money. A lot of money.

-They pay $50 and get HOT + the core game.
-You pay $50 and get HOT.

Since you are paying the price of a full game for an expansion, it is hard to believe that the core game is free. It seems to be included in the price tag, and you are paying for something you aren’t getting.

The core game is not without value. So if you are not getting the core game (because you already have it) the expansion should be cheaper for you.

No, veteran players are not losing any money. The expansion was always going to cost veteran players $50 anyway, so regardless of how long you have been playing, you would have needed to pay $60 for the core game and $50 for the expansion. There is no escaping the $50 cost.

It’s not like you can do anything with the core game. They give you a single game key that includes HoT if you are a new player. It’s not like they are giving two game keys out, right?

Just to make sure people are clear on the point if you are waiting on HoT to get cheaper Anet Im sure has not said that it will not produce more Living Story based on HoT that will have to be paid for separately if HoT is purchased at a later time. Also they haven’t mentioned if HoT instead of becoming cheaper down the line may be bundled with Living Story 3 to make it just as expensive or more so. In this latter case you may as well have bought Hot at release.

I dont think Anet are above doing this and will attempt to get there $50 from everyone however we look at it as HoT without LS3 may be more incomplete than GW2 without HoT.

I’m happily playing another MMO now but if Anet had any sense they would offer a better price for players showing an interest even if playing elsewhere. I find it sad I have been played like this. Maybe I will still be able to get a cheaper price elsewhere near the release date or just after. I can always buy an extra slot with gold converted to gems. That’s the only hope Anet have of getting me back even if temporarily.

KOPPER.1458:

“To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.”

This explains it all. The expansion is 50. This does not include any value for the core game. That is free. You may perceive it differently, but they answer this above.

Then please explain to me the difference between the $50 HOT expansion + free core game

and

The $50 core game + free HOT expansion

KOPPER.1458:

Does it have monetary value? The core game is now free if you buy HoT. You can not buy the core game from Anet anymore.

“To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.”

This explains it all. The expansion is 50. This does not include any value for the core game. That is free. You may perceive it differently, but they answer this above.

So you say that new players get a better value. Sort of, on the surface it looks that way. But as a Veteran player you’ve had a lot more time with the game. And depending on when you started playing, a lot more value that new players won’t have or even see in some circumstances.

Perhaps that isn’t enough, that will depend on each player. Anet is not going to remove the core game from buying HoT, this is how they want to sell it. They aren’t going to give a discounted copy, because HoT is 50. You could wait for a sale, or buy from a 3rd party retailer closer to launch. These might give discounts, and that is up to you.

All that extra stuff you said Vets got to play that new players may not, thats what we were paying for when we bought GW2 as that was what was in the manifesto. Living Story was promised to us. More than that its because vets bought the original GW2 and kept playing, investing time and often more money, that HoT is a reality now. So, your idea that we got more than new players as if we were blessed is ridiculous.

We certainly are not better off than new players with the price of the new seemingly minimal expansion. I dont play WoW and I do not accept prices for an add being that of a full game.

joneb.5679:

All that extra stuff you said Vets got to play that new players may not, thats what we were paying for when we bought GW2 as that was what was in the manifesto. Living Story was promised to us. More than that its because vets bought the original GW2 and kept playing, investing time and often more money, that HoT is a reality now. So, your idea that we got more than new players as if we were blessed is ridiculous.

We certainly are not better off than new players with the price of the new seemingly minimal expansion. I dont play WoW and I do not accept prices for an add being that of a full game.

This has nothing to do with veterans being “blessed” with being able to play the game for the past 3 years, it’s the fact that they have been. Anet is not going to pay you to play their game. No company does this. You did get more than new players. Take any new player out there right now and compare what you have against them. Thousand more play hours, Living Story completion at no cost/that is no longer in game, seasonal rewards, holiday rewards, etc. If you really think none of that has any value, buy a new account and don’t upgrade your current one to HoT. If you do think it has value, how much value would you place on it?

You of course don’t have to buy the expansion. You don’t have to ever give Anet any money ever again if you don’t like their business practices. In fact, if you don’t like those practices, then don’t continue to give them money. But the amount of time you spent playing the game does not have 0 value to you.

“Then please explain to me the difference between the $50 HOT expansion + free core game

and

The $50 core game + free HOT expansion"

You already know the difference. You don’t need me to explain why those are very different.

“All that extra stuff you said Vets got to play that new players may not, thats what we were paying for when we bought GW2 as that was what was in the manifesto.”

Ok that is fine, but new players won’t get that.

" Living Story was promised to us. More than that its because vets bought the original GW2 and kept playing, investing time and often more money, that HoT is a reality now. So, your idea that we got more than new players as if we were blessed is ridiculous."

I never said blessed, you are misconstruing my words. It was promised and you got it. Will new players get LS from the core game?

“We certainly are not better off than new players with the price of the new seemingly minimal expansion. I dont play WoW and I do not accept prices for an add being that of a full game.”

WOW certainly isn’t the only game that does this. Also just checked. I did not even mention wow. If you are not happy then you know what options you have. I simply do not agree with you, and you do not agree with me. That is ok.

I can say that I am better off than someone just starting to play today. I certainly got my monies worth. I do not feel cheated, or slighted. And I do not see including the core game for free as a bad thing. It is a good thing in my mind.

I do not feel like I am double paying for the core game. The expansion was always going to be 50 dollars. You may not like that, that is ok. You do not have to pay 50. You can wait for a sale, you can choose to pass. You can continue to post and be unhappy about it. All of those are viable.

Arena Net has seen the discontent. They have taken the feedback, and continue to do so. They have released what they feel is a suitable address to the community. Comprehensive refund policy, and or pre purchase and get a character slot.

KOPPER.1458:

You already know the difference. You don’t need me to explain why those are very different.

No, I don’t know the difference. I don’t see any difference at all. This was not meant as a rhetorical question. I would really like to know what the difference is.

You guys should stop complaining and go get better jobs

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

KOPPER.1458:

“To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.”

This explains it all. The expansion is 50. This does not include any value for the core game. That is free. You may perceive it differently, but they answer this above.

Then please explain to me the difference between the $50 HOT expansion + free core game

and

The $50 core game + free HOT expansion

Here’s the difference:
$50 HoT + “Free core game” (doesn’t exist, you don’t get two codes) - You pay $50 for HoT and get a code for it. In addition, Anet gives you a code for the original game which you could choose to only apply instead of HoT. Anybody who buys this would have access to one of the three options:
1) The core game itself without the HoT expansion (could be added later)
2) The expansion and core game included together
3) The expansion itself, but you would not be able to play the game without applying the core code.

$50 Core + Free HoT (also doesn’t exist, as HoT is stated as not being the “free” part) - You get a copy of the core game through a code and a complimentary code for the HoT expansion. Seeing as this results in the same as above, they are identical in pricing but for much different reasons.

What is actually happening:
$50 (Core + HoT or Character slot + HoT if being applied to existing account) - You get one code to apply to your account. This code unlocks all content up to the existing expansion, in this case HoT. You are not buying the core game again; you are buying access to HoT. If they gave you two separate codes for the core game and for HoT, then this could be an issue, but the HoT code is enough on its own for you to do everything in the core game as it is.

MiniEquine.6014:

joneb.5679:

All that extra stuff you said Vets got to play that new players may not, thats what we were paying for when we bought GW2 as that was what was in the manifesto. Living Story was promised to us. More than that its because vets bought the original GW2 and kept playing, investing time and often more money, that HoT is a reality now. So, your idea that we got more than new players as if we were blessed is ridiculous.

We certainly are not better off than new players with the price of the new seemingly minimal expansion. I dont play WoW and I do not accept prices for an add being that of a full game.

This has nothing to do with veterans being “blessed” with being able to play the game for the past 3 years, it’s the fact that they have been. Anet is not going to pay you to play their game. No company does this. You did get more than new players. Take any new player out there right now and compare what you have against them. Thousand more play hours, Living Story completion at no cost/that is no longer in game, seasonal rewards, holiday rewards, etc. If you really think none of that has any value, buy a new account and don’t upgrade your current one to HoT. If you do think it has value, how much value would you place on it?

You of course don’t have to buy the expansion. You don’t have to ever give Anet any money ever again if you don’t like their business practices. In fact, if you don’t like those practices, then don’t continue to give them money. But the amount of time you spent playing the game does not have 0 value to you.

You make no sense to me whatsoever. Your comment is as if we are from different worlds. We probably are metaphorically. Of-course everything Vets have played has been of value to them and we paid for all of that when we bought the game as that was what was offered and what we got. Anet has never said anything the like of the value for vets paying $50 for HoT includes paying towards that which came before it. Thats a ridiculous notion. Do you work for Anet maybe trying to persuade people in any way you can the price for the expansion is worth it?

It’s really simple, people. If you think the expansion is overpriced, don’t buy it. Eventually the price will come down. It won’t be because of your carping, but eventually it will. And when the next expansion comes out, you’ll have something else to complain about.

For my part, I am happy with how Anet has addressed this. I had concerns, they were heard and addressed to my satisfaction. Thinks aren’t necessarily going to change just because you believe they should; that’s not how this works.

joneb.5679:

MiniEquine.6014:

joneb.5679:

All that extra stuff you said Vets got to play that new players may not, thats what we were paying for when we bought GW2 as that was what was in the manifesto. Living Story was promised to us. More than that its because vets bought the original GW2 and kept playing, investing time and often more money, that HoT is a reality now. So, your idea that we got more than new players as if we were blessed is ridiculous.

We certainly are not better off than new players with the price of the new seemingly minimal expansion. I dont play WoW and I do not accept prices for an add being that of a full game.

This has nothing to do with veterans being “blessed” with being able to play the game for the past 3 years, it’s the fact that they have been. Anet is not going to pay you to play their game. No company does this. You did get more than new players. Take any new player out there right now and compare what you have against them. Thousand more play hours, Living Story completion at no cost/that is no longer in game, seasonal rewards, holiday rewards, etc. If you really think none of that has any value, buy a new account and don’t upgrade your current one to HoT. If you do think it has value, how much value would you place on it?

You of course don’t have to buy the expansion. You don’t have to ever give Anet any money ever again if you don’t like their business practices. In fact, if you don’t like those practices, then don’t continue to give them money. But the amount of time you spent playing the game does not have 0 value to you.

You make no sense to me whatsoever. Your comment is as if we are from different worlds. We probably are metaphorically. Of-course everything Vets have played has been of value to them and we paid for all of that when we bought the game as that was what was offered and what we got. Anet has never said anything the like of the value for vets paying $50 for HoT includes paying towards that which came before it. Thats a ridiculous notion.

We do live in different worlds, apparently, but I’m grounded in the reality of the situation: you buy a product with certain features offered at the time, you only buy those features. In what world should you get the expansion for less than other people? Having it at a lower price point would be nice, but it is by no means necessary.

Do you work for Anet maybe trying to persuade people in any way you can the price for the expansion is worth it?

Oh cut it out. Are you so willing to accuse me of such a thing? No. I even flat-out told you that you have no obligation to ever give Anet any money for as long as you live. Nobody has to ever give them any more money. They need to price their product competitively. However, your entitlement is what is ridiculous, and you don’t deserve the expansion any cheaper than anybody else.

Quintuplebeta.3914:

Great game with promising content to come. No reason to complain as you would pay nearly the same for a WoW expansion which has less content.

Firstly this is not WoW and if you read the the Warlords Of …. forums you’ll realise how badly the majority of the WoW faithful felt hard done by and utterly dissapointed at this expansion, especially for the money paid.

pickpocket.2071:

Anet doesn’t care About its current players, they rarely respond to posts take months to fix bugs or never. anet only cares about new players because there so good at making old ones leave. They need to restock the herd full of fanboy sheep

This is what we are complaining about as no one from A-net has officially answered on this thread.

AND,

When Heart Of Thorns was originally announced it was described as an expansion!

So for those who now say it is extra content, usually this is added FREE to those who already own the game OR should be offered at a lower price to vets either in cash or gems from the in game store.

So for those who have been ranting on about how fair this expansion, relaunch of GW2 or whatever it actually is, please read, digest and accept our points of view. AND please do find a different argument when answering as most of the replies have been the same old, laborious and tedious rant.

I shall look forward to reading, especially if someone from A-net can spread a little more light on what the expansion, new content or relaunch actually is and more importantly – when is it going to live? So come on A-net pull your finger out and tell us what we really want to know

gryph.8734:

And when the next expansion comes out, you’ll have something else to complain about.

Ah, so you think we are complaining simply for the sake of complaining?

i can deal with $50 dollar price.
i can deal with almost no new features to wvwvw besides that new map that for me looks like EOTM rev2.
i can deal with no new dugeons.
i can deal with not fighting the new dragon end boss…
what i can`t deal with is the fact that in late 2015 im supposed to pay for an update of a mmo game where anytime or anywhere a massive ammount of players encounter, be it on wvw or even sometimes on teq fights or sw or anywhere, the skill lag is so intense that makes you feel disgusted to be there playing.
what i really can`t stand is the fact that 3 years after game release and innumerous ammounts of complaints and reports about game performance. The so called update DOES NOT include any sort of performance improve that is going to actually IMPROVE the quality of the game.

right now wvw is losing players. Even on T1 the queues are not common.
and blob fights are not happening very often.

you expect to bring lots of new players and returning players with the update.. and you didn`t think about the fact that when those players join, the quality time they are going to have is NONE.

this is not LS update.. this is supposed to be an XPACK… The very least that you could do is improve the game performance to a level that is at least acceaptable and playable for your current players..
But instead..you completely ignored your current player base and decided? so what if the game performance is terrible… so what if everyone that is currently playing is having a bad time doing it??? let us skip that part and focus on random stuff..cause everyone is going to forget about it and learn to live with the insane lag in our game..

for real??
this is something i can’t understand..
no DX upgrade, no server upgrade, nothing.. and yet even while LOSING players..the lag is getting worse and worse and worse…

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

VOLKON.1290:

And… who cares? Giving new players the core as well in no way hurts me or affects my game play, with the possible exception of there being new players around. I’m not losing anything, I’m still gaining the expansion.

You are losing money. A lot of money.

-They pay $50 and get HOT + the core game.
-You pay $50 and get HOT.

Since you are paying the price of a full game for an expansion, it is hard to believe that the core game is free. It seems to be included in the price tag, and you are paying for something you aren’t getting.

The core game is not without value. So if you are not getting the core game (because you already have it) the expansion should be cheaper for you.

I’m… disappointed. The absence of logic in your alleged argument casts an embarrassing blight across all of humanity.

Let me slow this down for you.

I pay $50.00 and get exactly what I expect for the money I’m spending.
New players pay $50.00 and also get the same expansion, and so they can actually access the expansion they also get access to the core as well. The core that I already have and have had since closed beta.

How exactly am I losing money? Where is there anything even resembling a coherent logical thought in your argument? Are you seriously equating someone else getting more than I’m getting so that they’ll be able to access the expansion they paid for with me somehow losing money? Can you not see the ridiculousness of that argument?

I – lose – nothing.

Someone else getting a necessity to access what I’ll be able to access since I already have that necessity is not a loss for me, it’s a gain for someone else. A gain that in no way is detrimental to my personal experience. If they don’t get the core, they can’t play the game. This necessary gain for them does NOT equate to a loss for me.

It’s simple logic. Try and grasp it.

What I’m surprised on is that one of the selling points of GW2 before it came out was that the expansions were supposed to be free. Guess that was a bit of miscommunication with Gamestop, Bestbuy, and Target.

If new players get the core game for free then so the current players should also get something for free. Current players get nothing extra for buying HoT.

Kyosji.8961:

What I’m surprised on is that one of the selling points of GW2 before it came out was that the expansions were supposed to be free. Guess that was a bit of miscommunication with Gamestop, Bestbuy, and Target.

When the game was released there never was even any certainty whether or not they’d release an expansion let alone what the price would be for them.

VOLKON.1290:

Let me slow this down for you.

I pay $50.00 and get exactly what I expect for the money I’m spending.
New players pay $50.00 and also get the same expansion, and so they can actually access the expansion they also get access to the core as well. The core that I already have and have had since closed beta.

The core that you are paying for AGAIN with the expansion.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

VOLKON.1290:

Let me slow this down for you.

I pay $50.00 and get exactly what I expect for the money I’m spending.
New players pay $50.00 and also get the same expansion, and so they can actually access the expansion they also get access to the core as well. The core that I already have and have had since closed beta.

The core that you are paying for AGAIN with the expansion.

No, I’m not paying again for the core. I’m simply not getting the core again (for no cost) because I already have it.

But… let’s take a moment and assume your fallacy resembles reality just for gits and shiggles. How am I losing anything? I already have the core. I’m paying the set price, that I accept, for the expansion. The only perspective that matters in this is mine. I’m gaining the expansion and losing nothing. What others get or don’t get is irrelevant.

MiniEquine.6014:

joneb.5679:

MiniEquine.6014:

joneb.5679:

All that extra stuff you said Vets got to play that new players may not, thats what we were paying for when we bought GW2 as that was what was in the manifesto. Living Story was promised to us. More than that its because vets bought the original GW2 and kept playing, investing time and often more money, that HoT is a reality now. So, your idea that we got more than new players as if we were blessed is ridiculous.

We certainly are not better off than new players with the price of the new seemingly minimal expansion. I dont play WoW and I do not accept prices for an add being that of a full game.

This has nothing to do with veterans being “blessed” with being able to play the game for the past 3 years, it’s the fact that they have been. Anet is not going to pay you to play their game. No company does this. You did get more than new players. Take any new player out there right now and compare what you have against them. Thousand more play hours, Living Story completion at no cost/that is no longer in game, seasonal rewards, holiday rewards, etc. If you really think none of that has any value, buy a new account and don’t upgrade your current one to HoT. If you do think it has value, how much value would you place on it?

You of course don’t have to buy the expansion. You don’t have to ever give Anet any money ever again if you don’t like their business practices. In fact, if you don’t like those practices, then don’t continue to give them money. But the amount of time you spent playing the game does not have 0 value to you.

You make no sense to me whatsoever. Your comment is as if we are from different worlds. We probably are metaphorically. Of-course everything Vets have played has been of value to them and we paid for all of that when we bought the game as that was what was offered and what we got. Anet has never said anything the like of the value for vets paying $50 for HoT includes paying towards that which came before it. Thats a ridiculous notion.

We do live in different worlds, apparently, but I’m grounded in the reality of the situation: you buy a product with certain features offered at the time, you only buy those features. In what world should you get the expansion for less than other people? Having it at a lower price point would be nice, but it is by no means necessary.

Do you work for Anet maybe trying to persuade people in any way you can the price for the expansion is worth it?

Oh cut it out. Are you so willing to accuse me of such a thing? No. I even flat-out told you that you have no obligation to ever give Anet any money for as long as you live. Nobody has to ever give them any more money. They need to price their product competitively. However, your entitlement is what is ridiculous, and you don’t deserve the expansion any cheaper than anybody else.

Now you are saying I think the expansion should be cheaper for some or for me which is so wrong and misinterpreted. It should be cheaper all round. If Anet wanted to create a bundle with the original game they should have priced it as a bundle combining the expansion price and reduced price on the core game and kept the standalone expansion price for vets. So the expansion price is the same for us all. What they did was sly and cynical making it that from HoT on you can only buy both together.

I still have the core game minus HoT and can play that without accepting HoT so until that changes even the bundle is not core. So Anet have pulled a fast one. It could work it may hit them hard in the long run. You accept what you want and believe what you want. The world will go on with conflicts because people have different opinions, ethics but also because some allow themselves to be consumed in lies and manipulation.

I also don’t think I or anyone selse are entitled to anything different from anyone else I just have a sense of fairness butyou are more capitalist oriented it seems to me.

Lets say a few expansions have been released. The way Anet described it would be like this : New players get core game, previous expansion #1, previous expansion #2, and latest expansion #3 all for one price of $50. Vet players get latest expansion #3 for $50. New players get a huge deal as time goes by while Vet players get no deal what so ever.

The core game IS NOT free. It is part of HoT expansion. You will not be able to buy the core game or HoT separately once HoT is released. Each and every future expansion will include the core game + expansions for one price. Vet players should get some kind of deal. Gems, Character Slots, Unique Skins, something at least.
Vet players from GW1 got Hall of Monuments to add to GW2. We got all kinds of stuff if we worked hard enough for it.
What happened to the Anet that use to love and reward its Vets for their loyality?

Kityn.8247:

Lets say a few expansions have been released. The way Anet described it would be like this : New players get core game, previous expansion #1, previous expansion #2, and latest expansion #3 all for one price of $50. Vet players get latest expansion #3 for $50. New players get a huge deal as time goes by while Vet players get no deal what so ever.

The core game IS NOT free. It is part of HoT expansion. You will not be able to buy the core game or HoT separately once HoT is released. Each and every future expansion will include the core game + expansions for one price. Vet players should get some kind of deal. Gems, Character Slots, Unique Skins, something at least.
Vet players from GW1 got Hall of Monuments to add to GW2. We got all kinds of stuff if we worked hard enough for it.
What happened to that Anet that loved its Vets?

Except you’re completely ignoring that prices for software decline over time. Look at GW1 since you brought it up. New players can get the entire thing for $50. How much did veterans have to pay to get all of that?

Ayrilana.1396:

Kityn.8247:

Lets say a few expansions have been released. The way Anet described it would be like this : New players get core game, previous expansion #1, previous expansion #2, and latest expansion #3 all for one price of $50. Vet players get latest expansion #3 for $50. New players get a huge deal as time goes by while Vet players get no deal what so ever.

The core game IS NOT free. It is part of HoT expansion. You will not be able to buy the core game or HoT separately once HoT is released. Each and every future expansion will include the core game + expansions for one price. Vet players should get some kind of deal. Gems, Character Slots, Unique Skins, something at least.
Vet players from GW1 got Hall of Monuments to add to GW2. We got all kinds of stuff if we worked hard enough for it.
What happened to that Anet that loved its Vets?

Except you’re completely ignoring that prices for software decline over time. Look at GW1 since you brought it up. New players can get the entire thing for $50. How much did veterans have to pay to get all of that?

You are right Vets paid full dollar amount for GW1 games. However each of those games was a stand alone game each with tons of content and not expansions except for Eye of the North. Even though, Vets got 2 additional character slots for each stand alone game they bought and 1 for Eye of the North.
Vets in GW2 will get nothing except just HoT. If Anet gave their Vets 2 additional character slots with HoT then this thread would not have blown up like it did.

Kityn.8247:

Ayrilana.1396:

Kityn.8247:

Lets say a few expansions have been released. The way Anet described it would be like this : New players get core game, previous expansion #1, previous expansion #2, and latest expansion #3 all for one price of $50. Vet players get latest expansion #3 for $50. New players get a huge deal as time goes by while Vet players get no deal what so ever.

The core game IS NOT free. It is part of HoT expansion. You will not be able to buy the core game or HoT separately once HoT is released. Each and every future expansion will include the core game + expansions for one price. Vet players should get some kind of deal. Gems, Character Slots, Unique Skins, something at least.
Vet players from GW1 got Hall of Monuments to add to GW2. We got all kinds of stuff if we worked hard enough for it.
What happened to that Anet that loved its Vets?

Except you’re completely ignoring that prices for software decline over time. Look at GW1 since you brought it up. New players can get the entire thing for $50. How much did veterans have to pay to get all of that?

You are right Vets paid full dollar amount for GW1 games. However each of those games was a stand alone game each with tons of content and not expansions except for Eye of the North. Even though, Vets got 2 additional character slots for each stand alone game they bought and 1 for Eye of the North.
Vets in GW2 will get nothing except just HoT. If Anet gave their Vets 2 additional character slots with HoT then this thread would not have blown up like it did.

Doesn’t matter as they paid less than veterans for the same content which seems to be the biggest issue that keeps popping up in these threads. HoT could be standalone and the same people here would still be complaining.

VOLKON.1290:

No, I’m not paying again for the core. I’m simply not getting the core again (for no cost) because I already have it.

Doesn’t matter whether you already have it. The price for you is the same as for someone who doesn’t own the core game. So you could be paying for it again, without knowing it.

VOLKON.1290:

What others get or don’t get is irrelevant.

This is not about what others get. It’s about what we get for paying the same price.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

VOLKON.1290:

No, I’m not paying again for the core. I’m simply not getting the core again (for no cost) because I already have it.

Doesn’t matter whether you already have it. The price for you is the same as for someone who doesn’t own the core game. So you could be paying for it again, without knowing it.

VOLKON.1290:

What others get or don’t get is irrelevant.

This is not about what others get. It’s about what we get for paying the same price.

Horse dung. While it’s true that the price for me is the same as for a new players, this doesn’t mean that I’m paying for the core again. It means, as has been explained, that they’re getting the core, a necessary item in order to play the expansion, for free in addition to the expansion. The expansion price was established before ANet chose to make it easier for new players to get up to speed by throwing in the core for them with the expansion. They are giving away the core to the new players that buy the expansion. Smart business move in my opinion. They’re taking nothing from me.

" It’s about what we get for paying the same price."

Ah, the old “US vs THEM” mentality. You do have another option. Delete your current account in it’s entirety. Buy the expansion with the added core and you’ll be starting at the exact same place as the new players you so envy.

Simple, eh?

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

VOLKON.1290:

No, I’m not paying again for the core. I’m simply not getting the core again (for no cost) because I already have it.

Doesn’t matter whether you already have it. The price for you is the same as for someone who doesn’t own the core game. So you could be paying for it again, without knowing it.

VOLKON.1290:

What others get or don’t get is irrelevant.

This is not about what others get. It’s about what we get for paying the same price.

Simple question:

When a new player buys HoT, do they get 2 activation codes or do they get 1 activation code?

If they get 2 separate codes, you have every right to be upset. This means that they are packaging two products together. The product, in this case, is the code itself, not the game. You can download a client to a game, but you cannot log in to the game without having applied your account activation code to the game.

If they get 1 activation code, then everyone is receiving the same product.

MiniEquine.6014:

If they get 1 activation code, then everyone is receiving the same product.

No, we are not. I’m not getting an activation code for GW2. And while I already have GW2, shouldn’t the price be lower for me, since I’m not getting the core game, and just the expansion?

Yes, I know they are saying the core game is free. I think that is a load of rubbish. The expansion is priced as a full game. You can bet your sweet behind that the value of the core game is included in that. And that comes across as very shady.

It’s not about us versus them. It’s never been about that at all.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

MiniEquine.6014:

If they get 1 activation code, then everyone is receiving the same product.

No, we are not. I’m not getting an activation code for GW2. And while I already have GW2, shouldn’t the price be lower for me, since I’m not getting the core game, and just the expansion?

Yes, I know they are saying the core game is free. I think that is a load of rubbish. The expansion is priced as a full game. You can bet your sweet behind that the value of the core game is included in that. And that comes across as very shady.

It’s not about us versus them. It’s never been about that at all.

You get one activation key when you order. If you do it within the game, it is automatically applied to your account. The price should not be lower for you as the core game is a free bonus for new accounts. Whether you want to believe that or not is up to you but it doesn’t make it any less true. The expansion is priced on what they feel the content is worth. Whether or not it’s priced the same as a full game is irrelevant.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

VOLKON.1290:

And… who cares? Giving new players the core as well in no way hurts me or affects my game play, with the possible exception of there being new players around. I’m not losing anything, I’m still gaining the expansion.

You are losing money. A lot of money.

Are you 12 years old or something? Fifty bucks is just a couple of lunches…

Back when I purchased Guild Wars: Factions they didn’t make me re-purchase GW: Prophecies again even though it was required to play it.
Similarly, when I purchased Guild Wars: Nightfall and Eye of the North I didn’t need to re-purchase the core game again and again.

Those packs can still be purchased as standalone expansions on the Guildwars Online Store. They do have some bundles as well.

http://store.guildwars.com/store/gw/cat/categoryID.67871700

My point being that an expansion should be sold both as a standalone pack as well as being bundled. This will help encourage new players while not alienating your current player base.

Jinath.1298:

Back when I purchased Guild Wars: Factions they didn’t make me re-purchase GW: Prophecies again even though it was required to play it.
Similarly, when I purchased Guild Wars: Nightfall and Eye of the North I didn’t need to re-purchase the core game again and again.

Those packs can still be purchased as standalone expansions on the Guildwars Online Store. They do have some bundles as well.

http://store.guildwars.com/store/gw/cat/categoryID.67871700

My point being that an expansion should be sold both as a standalone pack as well as being bundled. This will help encourage new players while not alienating your current player base.

Except all you’re buying is the expansion. If you happen to be applying the code to a new account, you get the core game as a free bonus. They didn’t do anything like that with GW1.

Jinath.1298:

Back when I purchased Guild Wars: Factions they didn’t make me re-purchase GW: Prophecies again even though it was required to play it.
Similarly, when I purchased Guild Wars: Nightfall and Eye of the North I didn’t need to re-purchase the core game again and again.

Those packs can still be purchased as standalone expansions on the Guildwars Online Store. They do have some bundles as well.

http://store.guildwars.com/store/gw/cat/categoryID.67871700

My point being that an expansion should be sold both as a standalone pack as well as being bundled. This will help encourage new players while not alienating your current player base.

the issue their is that you arent re-buying gw2 it comes FREE with the expansion. that means, wether you admit it or not, its not repurchasing as you arent paying for it.

Jinath.1298:

Back when I purchased Guild Wars: Factions they didn’t make me re-purchase GW: Prophecies again even though it was required to play it.
Similarly, when I purchased Guild Wars: Nightfall and Eye of the North I didn’t need to re-purchase the core game again and again.

Those packs can still be purchased as standalone expansions on the Guildwars Online Store. They do have some bundles as well.

http://store.guildwars.com/store/gw/cat/categoryID.67871700

My point being that an expansion should be sold both as a standalone pack as well as being bundled. This will help encourage new players while not alienating your current player base.

You didn’t need GW prophecies to play faction, nor nightfall.
You can play each three, without the other, in pve or pvp (alliance battle are faction related so only with faction).
Each of theses game were stand alone, not expansion… of course you can link each game and play with you prophecies character in the other aera.

Stop making this confusing, only Gwen can’t be play alone…

selberkh.6859:

the issue their is that you arent re-buying gw2 it comes FREE with the expansion. that means, wether you admit it or not, its not repurchasing as you arent paying for it.

Or so they say. For a price of $50 bucks, I don’t believe that.

There’s no such thing as free. Someone, somewhere, is paying for every “free” thing given out by a company. The question is, “Who?”

Stop making this confusing, only Gwen can’t be play alone…
[/quote]

So ok, Guild Wars Eye of the North required ‘a’ guild wars campaign. Sorry for the confusion. Regardless, my point stands. That expansion can still be purchased independently without needing to re-purchase the core game.

As for Heart of Thorns, if you are a ‘new’ player you get a great bonus which is a ‘free’ GW2 core game! Kudos!
If you are a veteran player who has already paid for the core game, then all you get is the HoT expansion. If you’re fine with that then kudos to you too.

People can spend or ‘not spend’ their money however they want. I’m only trying to educate you that there are better alternatives to the way Anet is handling this particular expansion release.

Truly, the best course of action would be to wait until the expansion goes on sale and buy it then:)

I for one will not be buying HoT at full price. All I would get for full price would be the expansion. I would have to buy additional character slots just so I can try out the new profession. We all know how a PITA switching skills and traits around and soo we make alts. With the new weapons added to current professions, that will require additional character slots. Yep $50 HoT expansion for me would cost nearly $100 so I could play with all that content. Such a great deal for Vet players.

Jinath.1298:

As for Heart of Thorns, if you are a ‘new’ player you get a great bonus which is a ‘free’ GW2 core game! Kudos!
If you are a veteran player who has already paid for the core game, then all you get is the HoT expansion. If you’re fine with that then kudos to you too.

People can spend or ‘not spend’ their money however they want. I’m only trying to educate you that there are better alternatives to the way Anet is handling this particular expansion release.

Truly, the best course of action would be to wait until the expansion goes on sale and buy it then:)

Actually, you seem to be mis-informed. As I understand it, if an existing account holder pre-orders HoT they will at some point get a free character slot which is notionally of equivalent monetary value to the cheapest sale price of the Core game.

If you wait till release, then you may miss out on the deal although personally I think A-Net should make it part of an explicit upgrade package. Same price just different target audiences.