Guild Wars 2

I get it, people just dont want to believe Anet are giving Gw2 away for free. Its being assumed that they’re lieing that for some reason the cost of the expansion is 39.99 (as if there is just a thing as a cost for a digital good) and that they’re secretly charging $10 for their core game forcing everyone to pay for what they already own.

Now consider this. They already stated every expansion they release will always include the on before hand so do you really think its feasable for them to charge $10 for everything they say they’re including for free? If they did that next expansion will sell for $60, the one after that for $70 and Expansion number 4 will go for a whooping $80 all the while claiming that they’re actually being included for free.

You seriously see that happening?

And actually adding a bit to this… why exactly would they do that? Just to get an extra $10? if they wanted to do that couldnt they simply have priced the expansion $49.99 and not bundle anything with it?

Its not like any of us who own gw2 said “well 49.99 is a bit steep but since it includes the core game sure why not?” did we? so again why on earth would they try to deceive anyone by claiming they’re giving away something for free when in truth they’re charging for it? what exactly would they gain by doing that?

MiniEquine.6014:

Since release, they have added 9 additional maps. They have also released two Living World story seasons free of charge if you logged in for them and included additional events like the Karka invasion, SAB, holiday events, etc.

9 additional maps? Southsun, Dry top, Silverwastes… what am I missing?
But yeah, I know, they’ve updated the base-game quite a bit. I was just focusing on what was there at the launch, as the price of the base game was $50 at the launch.
Y’know, it’s just for the sake of the comparison.

MiniEquine.6014:

And an additional traitline, 4 utility skills, 1 heal, 1 elite, 1 new F# mechanic for the remaining 8 classes

Yeah, I meant to mention that to illustrate how little that is compared to the hundreds of skills the base-game had. Or, like 20 utility skills for each class.

MiniEquine.6014:

Speculated through datamining, with unknown levels of size, some with and some without the 3-tiered verticality, and only at release. This is ignoring anything they might release further down the road.

I left down the road updates out for the specific reason, that we’re now comparing the price of something at launch, vs something else at launch.
Also, I’ll admit I was wrong when they release 25 huge new maps for the expansion. How likely do you think it is that I have to admit I was wrong?

MiniEquine.6014:

See above for everything else you missed about that.

I’ll see your above, and raise you a :rolleyes:.

MiniEquine.6014:

You have no idea about the length of the story, as we all don’t know. I wouldn’t suggest using this as a reasoned argument point unless you actually know the story length.

It’s an educated guess. I’m hoping I’m wrong, but I’m not too optimistic.
Hey, maybe we’re getting so little of everything else, because they made superbly long story?

MiniEquine.6014:

No dungeons is potentially an issue, but we will see after PAX Prime (I think that’s the name?) on August 29th what the Challenging Group Content is supposed to be. From what I’ve gathered, this was what they wanted the game to be more like from the beginning, but we have no idea what it will actually be. Also, don’t forget about the Mastery system, legendary pre-cursor crafting including crafting for all of the existing legendaries as well as new legendary weapons.

Yeah, and also guildhalls, maybe some updates to guilds. Glider mechanic, some new non-playable races and their lore… Still, if we have to list every ounce of content they’re adding, you know it’s not much.

MiniEquine.6014:

You still bought it any way, so you must not have thought it was much of a rip-off after all.

The way I see it, I can go for it even though I know it’s a rip-off. I really liked the original GW1, I have had some really good time with GW2. Some 1kh of it. I figure, I’ll just support the franchise. However, I think it’s important to express my opinion about it on the forums, since I know the devs read the forums and I’m rather hoping that they’d make the next expansion better. And well, I’m not sure if we should even be blaming Anet for the pricing, maybe NCSoft had their say on that subject?

MiniEquine.6014:

Would I have been happier with it being $40 instead of $50? Yes, but I would have loved it to be free even though that’s not possible. I still also bought the expansion. If they screw this one up though (this being GW2’s first expansion), they will have to really impress a lot of people with the next one or else they will lose a lot of old players.

Well, I made it easier for myself to accept the fact by deciding the expansion costs $40 and can only be bought bundled with either the original game which is now worth $10, or a character slot of equal value. I don’t see any flaw in that logic.

Fred Fargone.3127:

Well, I made it easier for myself to accept the fact by deciding the expansion costs $40 and can only be bought bundled with either the original game which is now worth $10, or a character slot of equal value. I don’t see any flaw in that logic.

let me explain the flaw in that logic.

Forget Gw2 for a second. lets go to your favorite super market instead. I am sure like all super markets in the world at one time or another they did the real popular buy one get one free offer. Hopefully they did that on a product you love in which case I am sure you noticed that while the super market was running that promotion the product you so much love did not double in price and once the promotion ended it certainly didnt half in price.

What you’re saying here is because the product in question costs generally costs X because the offer is now giving you 2 products instead of 1 for the same amount of money the product doesnt really cost X but instead costs 1/2 X.

This is ofcourse not true, the product still costs X, the super market or producer is simply giving you a free version to entice you and other customers to buy the product in question. In case of your super market the product they’re giving you costs them money (they still need to pay for the raw material, manufacturing etc..) and yet they still give it away for free. In case of Gw2, its a digital product, giving it away doesnt cost them a single dime. So why it is hard to believe they’d be willing to give it away for free in the hopes of enticing more customers with the better deal?

Galen Grey.4709:

I get it, people just dont want to believe Anet are giving Gw2 away for free. Its being assumed that they’re lieing that for some reason the cost of the expansion is 39.99 (as if there is just a thing as a cost for a digital good) and that they’re secretly charging $10 for their core game forcing everyone to pay for what they already own.

Do you think, that if they sold just the expansion for $50 without bundling anything with it, that’d sell?

Galen Grey.4709:

Now consider this. They already stated every expansion they release will always include the on before hand so do you really think its feasable for them to charge $10 for everything they say they’re including for free? If they did that next expansion will sell for $60, the one after that for $70 and Expansion number 4 will go for a whooping $80 all the while claiming that they’re actually being included for free.

I’m sorry, there seems to be a flaw in the logic here. You’re assuming that every expansion will be worth as much, and that the old titles will always be $10, and that they’re going to follow the pricing model for 4 expansions. Sure, they said they would, but things people say don’t always hold true. (Like, when they said there’d be no expansions but just free content updates. And here we are, debating about the price of expansions.)
If they’re charging $50 for every expansion, I know I’m not buying the next one. Not if it’s anything like HoT content wise. I know there are whole lot of people who didn’t buy HoT because it’s $50 (=$100). I know there will be whole lot people, who will buy the next expansion, but not the 3rd when it also costs $50 (=$200).
Most likely, 2rd expansion would, include 1 more “free” character slots AND a totally “free” bank tab, or something else to appease the people who have now paid $100 already for the game, and are required to pay $50 more for yet another expansion.

Galen Grey.4709:

And actually adding a bit to this… why exactly would they do that? Just to get an extra $10? if they wanted to do that couldnt they simply have priced the expansion $49.99 and not bundle anything with it?

That’s the thing. The expansion isn’t worth $49.99. That’s why they’d have to bundle stuff with it. It’s not necessarily even worth $39.99, but it’s worth $39.99 with beta benefits for enough people.

Galen Grey.4709:

Its not like any of us who own gw2 said “well 49.99 is a bit steep but since it includes the core game sure why not?”

No, but I said “well 49.99 is a bit steep but since it includes a character slot, sure why not?” Quite a few people said that in the threads complaining about the HoT pricing. That’s why they included a “free” character slot as an alternative for the core game. The game wasn’t worth $49.99 alone for enough people.

Galen Grey.4709:

why on earth would they try to deceive anyone by claiming they’re giving away something for free when in truth they’re charging for it? what exactly would they gain by doing that?

Money, obviously. It sounds whole lot better when you say "AND THAT’S NOT ALL! You get this nice knife-rack for FREE when you order your deluxe knife-set now! " But for whatever reason, my local supermarket will always have the deluxe knife-set for cheaper without the knife-rack.

Galen Grey.4709:

let me explain the flaw in that logic.

Forget Gw2 for a second. lets go to your favorite super market instead. I am sure like all super markets in the world at one time or another they did the real popular buy one get one free offer. Hopefully they did that on a product you love in which case I am sure you noticed that while the super market was running that promotion the product you so much love did not double in price and once the promotion ended it certainly didnt half in price.

What you’re saying here is because the product in question costs generally costs X because the offer is now giving you 2 products instead of 1 for the same amount of money the product doesnt really cost X but instead costs 1/2 X.

This is ofcourse not true, the product still costs X, the super market or producer is simply giving you a free version to entice you and other customers to buy the product in question. In case of your super market the product they’re giving you costs them money (they still need to pay for the raw material, manufacturing etc..) and yet they still give it away for free. In case of Gw2, its a digital product, giving it away doesnt cost them a single dime. So why it is hard to believe they’d be willing to give it away for free in the hopes of enticing more customers with the better deal?

The thing is, if you’re trying to sell a plank with a nail in it for $100, it doesn’t mean that the plank with a nail in it is worth $100. Sure, you might be able to sell it for a couple of crazy people, but that doesn’t count on grander scale. So, you can either find a price that the plank with a nail in it is actually worth, OR, you can bundle in a fancy table. “For free”.

Fred Fargone.3127:

MiniEquine.6014:

Since release, they have added 9 additional maps. They have also released two Living World story seasons free of charge if you logged in for them and included additional events like the Karka invasion, SAB, holiday events, etc.

9 additional maps? Southsun, Dry top, Silverwastes… what am I missing?
But yeah, I know, they’ve updated the base-game quite a bit. I was just focusing on what was there at the launch, as the price of the base game was $50 at the launch.
Y’know, it’s just for the sake of the comparison.

Sorry, ya, 3 new maps. You saying they released 25 threw me off so I just subtracted that from the total 34 in game. Also, my point still stands that there has been a lot that happened in game with temporary content through the Living World S1 and the various events associated with it. None of this was “included at launch”, so it can be used to at least speculate that they would continue to add content as the expansion progresses. If they do not do this, then we have a problem.

Fred Fargone.3127:

MiniEquine.6014:

And an additional traitline, 4 utility skills, 1 heal, 1 elite, 1 new F# mechanic for the remaining 8 classes

Yeah, I meant to mention that to illustrate how little that is compared to the hundreds of skills the base-game had. Or, like 20 utility skills for each class.

And what would be acceptable? Doubling the amount of skills? Doubling the number of professions? There is no game that does this; not even GW1. The expansion is supposed to expand on the mechanics of the game, not just to add an equal amount of mechanics as the previous iteration. Ultimately, you feel the amount of skills and weapon abilities added are negligible, but they are adding at a minimum 131 new skills or mechanics to the classes (including Revenant) and this number could even be as large as 160 depending on what the Warrior, Thief, and Engineer E.specs actually get. This is not really a small number.

Fred Fargone.3127:

MiniEquine.6014:

Speculated through datamining, with unknown levels of size, some with and some without the 3-tiered verticality, and only at release. This is ignoring anything they might release further down the road.

I left down the road updates out for the specific reason, that we’re now comparing the price of something at launch, vs something else at launch.
Also, I’ll admit I was wrong when they release 25 huge new maps for the expansion. How likely do you think it is that I have to admit I was wrong?

25 new maps? Let’s take this into consideration then: which maps provide continual content for “end-game”? We have Orr, but that is primarily to be fore the personal story line, though we can certainly count it because of the events that take place. Cities don’t count. We have 3 maps for Karka and Dry Top/Silverwastes, but the Karka map content is primarily just for the Karka Queen at this point. And we have 22 low-level maps that are primarily used for leveling or for the world bosses in them, which are mainly just killed and then the players leave right after.

So end-game maps are a total of 6, and that’s if we are generous in counting Southsun Cove still as well as the Orrian maps. At one point they were considered the end-game, which is why they should be included. Do you really value the leveling-up maps with the same weight as a level 80 map?

Darkness.9732:

You are writing as a gw2 fanboy and as a white knight whereas I’ m writing as a customer. If I bought the game 50$ at launch why I should pay again for the CORE game?

Calling someone a “fanboy” and “white knight” is always a worthless, unfounded argument. It is provocative name calling and nothing more. Just because you are upset or disagree with someone who actually happens to like or defend something you do not doesn’t make you the “rational” one.

Calling someone those names is no more true or acceptable than the “fanboys” and “white knighters” calling people like you whiners or tantrum throwers.

Vayne and all of us are as much a customer as you are. We all have to buy the game. Being a “customer” isn’t something which with you can use to become a martyr.

The core game is a freebie from ANet for purchasing the expansion. Free-bie. They didn’t have to, but to appease all those who felt they were being cheated, Anet is giving vet players a free character slot. Those slots cost $10. The core game has been on sale repeatedly over the last many months for $10. It was a generous thing for them to do to make the community happy and allay the complaints.

Fred Fargone.3127:

Do you think, that if they sold just the expansion for $50 without bundling anything with it, that’d sell?

yes why not? do you really think a single veteran player who bought HoT did it cause it included the core game they already own anyway? Besides think of subscription games. its generally 2 years of sub + $40 for the expansion + $15 for every month you intend to play it and yet they still sell. Do you really think the $10 above the current average is such a show stopper?

Fred Fargone.3127:

I’m sorry, there seems to be a flaw in the logic here. You’re assuming that every expansion will be worth as much, and that the old titles will always be $10, and that they’re going to follow the pricing model for 4 expansions. Sure, they said they would, but things people say don’t always hold true.

the $10 is an assumption that up until the day they announce the next expansion their bundle will not sell for less then $10. Pretty reasonable I think. Then I went with your logic, that since up until that moment the package was selling for $10 thats what it costs.

Fred Fargone.3127:

If they’re charging $50 for every expansion, I know I’m not buying the next one. Not if it’s anything like HoT content wise.

Shouldnt you know what content HoT has before deciding its not sufficient? We’re missing the most crucial information (how many maps are there?, how many events? how many story instances? what is the difficult group content? how many dungeons/fractals are there if any? How can anyone make an assessment if content is sufficient before they can answer these basic questions?

Fred Fargone.3127:

I know there are whole lot of people who didn’t buy HoT because it’s $50 (=$100). I know there will be whole lot people, who will buy the next expansion, but not the 3rd when it also costs $50 (=$200).

There are a whole lot of people who will not play an MMO unless they can play without paying a single cent. There are also people who are willing to pay $200 a year to play their favorite MMO. A game is not a charity, HoT charging $50 essentially means $16 a year. I am not sure Arenanet would be loosing much if they loose people who think their game is not worth the extra $3 a year we’re talking about.

Fred Fargone.3127:

Most likely, 2rd expansion would, include 1 more “free” character slots AND a totally “free” bank tab, or something else to appease the people who have now paid $100 already for the game, and are required to pay $50 more for yet another expansion.

Yes cause provided they take another 3 years to develop the next expansion they wouldnt deserve $150 for 6 years of work but were’ly $130 right? Is it really that imperative for people to save $3 per year? I dont know is it such a huge sacrifice to just save a little $3 once every year to support your favorite game?

Fred Fargone.3127:

That’s the thing. The expansion isn’t worth $49.99. That’s why they’d have to bundle stuff with it. It’s not necessarily even worth $39.99, but it’s worth $39.99 with beta benefits for enough people.

Too premature to make that statement as already explained.

Fred Fargone.3127:

No, but I said “well 49.99 is a bit steep but since it includes a character slot, sure why not?” Quite a few people said that in the threads complaining about the HoT pricing. That’s why they included a “free” character slot as an alternative for the core game. The game wasn’t worth $49.99 alone for enough people.

No thats not what happened, people felt because new players were getting something for free so should they. It had nothing to do with HoT being worthed it or not. For the 3rd time how can you determine if something is worthed or not without barely knowing what it contains?

Fred Fargone.3127:

Money, obviously. It sounds whole lot better when you say "AND THAT’S NOT ALL! You get this nice knife-rack for FREE when you order your deluxe knife-set now! " But for whatever reason, my local supermarket will always have the deluxe knife-set for cheaper without the knife-rack.

Somehow I doubt thats true. Because while discounting that deluxe knife set would certain be a better value to the customer psychology is a weird thing. Study after study has proven that people respond better to getting free stuff rather then saving money. Thats why generally get free stuff is preferred. Super market makes more money, customers are happier. win win.

Fred Fargone.3127:

Galen Grey.4709:

let me explain the flaw in that logic.

Forget Gw2 for a second. lets go to your favorite super market instead. I am sure like all super markets in the world at one time or another they did the real popular buy one get one free offer. Hopefully they did that on a product you love in which case I am sure you noticed that while the super market was running that promotion the product you so much love did not double in price and once the promotion ended it certainly didnt half in price.

What you’re saying here is because the product in question costs generally costs X because the offer is now giving you 2 products instead of 1 for the same amount of money the product doesnt really cost X but instead costs 1/2 X.

This is ofcourse not true, the product still costs X, the super market or producer is simply giving you a free version to entice you and other customers to buy the product in question. In case of your super market the product they’re giving you costs them money (they still need to pay for the raw material, manufacturing etc..) and yet they still give it away for free. In case of Gw2, its a digital product, giving it away doesnt cost them a single dime. So why it is hard to believe they’d be willing to give it away for free in the hopes of enticing more customers with the better deal?

The thing is, if you’re trying to sell a plank with a nail in it for $100, it doesn’t mean that the plank with a nail in it is worth $100. Sure, you might be able to sell it for a couple of crazy people, but that doesn’t count on grander scale. So, you can either find a price that the plank with a nail in it is actually worth, OR, you can bundle in a fancy table. “For free”.

How is a plank with a nail in it selling for $100 a good analogy? What we have here is an expansion of as yet unknown size selling for 10% more then its average competition but with a time line that’s 33% larger which is also key. because okey some competitors charge $40 for their expansion but they’re released every 2 years not 3 which in the long run still makes them more expensive.

Its also technically cheaper then some of its other competition. Its a lot cheaper then a lot of its competition if you factor in running costs.

MiniEquine.6014:

Fred Fargone.3127:

MiniEquine.6014:

And an additional traitline, 4 utility skills, 1 heal, 1 elite, 1 new F# mechanic for the remaining 8 classes

Yeah, I meant to mention that to illustrate how little that is compared to the hundreds of skills the base-game had. Or, like 20 utility skills for each class.

And what would be acceptable? Doubling the amount of skills? Doubling the number of professions? There is no game that does this; not even GW1. The expansion is supposed to expand on the mechanics of the game, not just to add an equal amount of mechanics as the previous iteration. Ultimately, you feel the amount of skills and weapon abilities added are negligible, but they are adding at a minimum 131 new skills or mechanics to the classes (including Revenant) and this number could even be as large as 160 depending on what the Warrior, Thief, and Engineer E.specs actually get. This is not really a small number.

Or, keeping the price of the expansion at the general price range of an expansion. If you’re adding content worth $20, then charge $20.
Alternatively, they could make some other content more valuable.

MiniEquine.6014:

25 new maps? Let’s take this into consideration then: which maps provide continual content for “end-game”? We have Orr, but that is primarily to be fore the personal story line, though we can certainly count it because of the events that take place. Cities don’t count. We have 3 maps for Karka and Dry Top/Silverwastes, but the Karka map content is primarily just for the Karka Queen at this point. And we have 22 low-level maps that are primarily used for leveling or for the world bosses in them, which are mainly just killed and then the players leave right after.

So end-game maps are a total of 6, and that’s if we are generous in counting Southsun Cove still as well as the Orrian maps. At one point they were considered the end-game, which is why they should be included. Do you really value the leveling-up maps with the same weight as a level 80 map?

Do I value “leveling up” (=lower level, it still scales y’know) maps with the same weight as a level 80 map? ofcourse! Why wouldn’t I? Think they didn’t spend hundreds of hours making those maps beautiful and enjoyable just because they’re not level 80? I even enjoy some lower level maps way more than I do Orr. Why not add a new race and let it have it’s own leveling up maps, and it’s own capital? Or if not do that, they could just as well add 25 level 80 maps. The costs of creating a map doesn’t really increase just because the character level is higher. Heck, seen how the lvl 1-15 maps are the players first impression of the game play, those would need special attention, making them cost more.

MiniEquine.6014:

Sorry, ya, 3 new maps. You saying they released 25 threw me off so I just subtracted that from the total 34 in game. Also, my point still stands that there has been a lot that happened in game with temporary content through the Living World S1 and the various events associated with it. None of this was “included at launch”, so it can be used to at least speculate that they would continue to add content as the expansion progresses. If they do not do this, then we have a problem.

just for clarity strictly speaking 3 maps isnt actually accurate either. They also released the tower of nightmares, kessex hills under the toxic alliance, destroyed LA, new rebuild LA, revamped southsun, labyrinthine cliffs, cragstead, the hatchery, the not so secret base, Queen Pavilion, SAB, The fractals, the dungeons (toy apocalypse, Mad king labyrinth, Mad king dungeon thingy, molten facility, the sky pirates base, etc.. ) they may have been temporary (with the exception of fractals, cragstead and the hatchery) but they still had to create them.

Fred Fargone.3127:

Or, keeping the price of the expansion at the general price range of an expansion. If you’re adding content worth $20, then charge $20.
Alternatively, they could make some other content more valuable.

any how do you decide how much content is worth how much money?

Just for the sake of argument not attacking any game here but lets compare Gw1 and Gw2 at release. Gw1 shipped with 25 story missions and 205 quests. Gw2 shipped with a ton more story missions and 1500 dynamic events. Does that mean Gw2 should have sold for $350 to reflect the amount of content increase it had over Gw1?

How about comparing the actual content, is LA in Gw1 the same complexity in LA in Gw2? nope again should Anet have charged more? even if you could somehow quantify content you cannot simply put a base price on it and scale accordingly. Pricing is a balance between a number of elements. Cost of developing the content, projected sales, expecting markup and what players are willing to pay for it.

Fred Fargone.3127:

The costs of creating a map doesn’t really increase just because the character level is higher.

No of course the cost of creating maps doesnt really increase with character level but it does increase based on added complexity and there is no denying that event the small bit we saw of verdant brink its way more elaborate then any existing map. Even with the vertical space not fulling enabled (Colin said its still lacking the canopy) its way bigger then any map including drytop in terms of vertical space and has a lot more modeling which does increase costs. Thats all stuff that has to be considered.

In the end its really simple, in the last 3 years Gw2 team didnt become smaller, it actually expanded from ~270 people to ~350 people. None of those people, one assumes, are being paid to do nothing. Hence the content they did in the weekly releases + Expansion in the last 3 years. So in terms of cost if we take the $60 they charged for Gw2, divide it by 5 years and divide that by 270 people each copy sold was essentially generating $0.04,4 per employee per year. if we do the same with HoT its $50 divided by 350 divided by 3 years it comes to $0.04,7 so really they’re charging only marginally more and lets not forget they were 270 employees by release so that $0.04,4 is actually a little on the lower side. So again are they really cheating us?

I think it’s great they are making it easier for new players to join. I’m sure there other mmos out there that do the same thing you’re seeing here.

Hi , i dont play gw 2 a long time ago and i was thinking of playing again to see the expansion but why i have to pay the full price game again? i understand that for a new one that price is good because you get all at once but what happen to the old players? the logic think to do is to give us the option to buy only the expanson for 20 or 30 bucks. Is not fair that you punish the old players for only getting new players for more easy sells.

fysorda.7501:

Hi , i dont play gw 2 a long time ago and i was thinking of playing again to see the expansion but why i have to pay the full price game again? i understand that for a new one that price is good because you get all at once but what happen to the old players? the logic think to do is to give us the option to buy only the expanson for 20 or 30 bucks. Is not fair that you punish the old players for only getting new players for more easy sells.

Read the post at the top of the page from Anet.

Ayrilana.1396:

fysorda.7501:

Hi , i dont play gw 2 a long time ago and i was thinking of playing again to see the expansion but why i have to pay the full price game again? i understand that for a new one that price is good because you get all at once but what happen to the old players? the logic think to do is to give us the option to buy only the expanson for 20 or 30 bucks. Is not fair that you punish the old players for only getting new players for more easy sells.

Read the post at the top of the page from Anet.

i already read that , i was trying to give my opinion how unfair is this for old players. I think is important for a game developer to keep the old players happy and to bring new people but in this case they only focus to get new people. well that is my point of view.

fysorda.7501:

Ayrilana.1396:

fysorda.7501:

Hi , i dont play gw 2 a long time ago and i was thinking of playing again to see the expansion but why i have to pay the full price game again? i understand that for a new one that price is good because you get all at once but what happen to the old players? the logic think to do is to give us the option to buy only the expanson for 20 or 30 bucks. Is not fair that you punish the old players for only getting new players for more easy sells.

Read the post at the top of the page from Anet.

i already read that , i was trying to give my opinion how unfair is this for old players. I think is important for a game developer to keep the old players happy and to bring new people but in this case they only focus to get new people. well that is my point of view.

I agree with you. This remind me of membership model: members get discount price while regular customer pay full price. Old Players should be treated like this model while new players like me should pay full price.

My suggestion:

Players who are 2 years+ pay= discount price— $20
Players who are 1 and 1/2 years- 2 years pay= discount price— $30
Players who are 1 and 1/2 year to 1 year pay= discount price— $40
Players who are 1 year and -under pay= Full Price

What do you think?

(Old Players= Old Accounts= Pay Discount Price)
(New Players= New Accounts= Pay Full Price)

Fred Fargone.3127:

Do you think, that if they sold just the expansion for $50 without bundling anything with it, that’d sell?

Yes, I do. Anyone who rushed to buy when prepurchase became available would likely still have done so. It might even have sold a bit better than it did initially, because the complaint point about bundling core would not have been a sticking point. It would be silly for someone who already owned the game and bought HoT to decide they would not buy it if core was not bundled in — unless they were planning on not using their existing characters in HoT, essentially starting over.

Then there’s separating bundled core from the bonus slot issue. I believe that any veterans who bought when the free slot was added would likely have done so if core was not also bundled, for the same reason.

Would HoT sell more copies if the price was lower? Almost assuredly. Would it make ANet more money at a lower price point? That’s much more in doubt. I’ve seen complaints assigning values for HoT ranging anywhere from $40 down to $15 (maybe lower, but I’m not rereading the whole thread). The lower the price of admission, the more copies would be sold. However, the lower the price of admission, the more copies would need to be sold to break even with the number of sales at $50.

The above is especially true when you consider that a reduced sale price anytime between now and release would generate demands for refunds. Based on the number of complainers versus the number of people playing in the beta or who’ve posted about their purchase, I doubt that enough more players would buy to defray the refunds, never mind generate more revenue.

DarkSyze.8627:

fysorda.7501:

Ayrilana.1396:

fysorda.7501:

Hi , i dont play gw 2 a long time ago and i was thinking of playing again to see the expansion but why i have to pay the full price game again? i understand that for a new one that price is good because you get all at once but what happen to the old players? the logic think to do is to give us the option to buy only the expanson for 20 or 30 bucks. Is not fair that you punish the old players for only getting new players for more easy sells.

Read the post at the top of the page from Anet.

i already read that , i was trying to give my opinion how unfair is this for old players. I think is important for a game developer to keep the old players happy and to bring new people but in this case they only focus to get new people. well that is my point of view.

I agree with you. This remind me of membership model: members get discount price while regular customer pay full price. Old Players should be treated like this model while new players like me should pay full price.

My suggestion:

Players who are 2 years+ pay= discount price— $20
Players who are 1 and 1/2 years- 2 years pay= discount price— $30
Players who are 1 and 1/2 year to 1 year pay= discount price— $40
Players who are 1 year and -under pay= Full Price

What do you think?

(Old Players= Old Accounts= Pay Discount Price)
(New Players= New Accounts= Pay Full Price)

This is great and all, except the core game itself is no more than $10. Anet is still pricing the expansion at $50, so the very least that would happen is the oldest day 0 veterans would get the expansion for $40. We can’t pretend the core game is worth any more than $10. I bought my copy of the core game for $10 back in January, so is it fair that I should get to pay $10 for the same game (minus all the events and story that came before that date) when you had to pay no less than $60 3 years ago?

Yes, it is fair. The game value depreciates with time.

If you’re arguing the expansion is overpriced, then that’s a completely separate and legitimate concern, but then new players would still get the expansion for the same price as you. This ultimately boils down to a “somebody else is getting something for the same price as me but I deserve more!” argument.

DarkSyze.8627:

fysorda.7501:

Ayrilana.1396:

fysorda.7501:

Hi , i dont play gw 2 a long time ago and i was thinking of playing again to see the expansion but why i have to pay the full price game again? i understand that for a new one that price is good because you get all at once but what happen to the old players? the logic think to do is to give us the option to buy only the expanson for 20 or 30 bucks. Is not fair that you punish the old players for only getting new players for more easy sells.

Read the post at the top of the page from Anet.

i already read that , i was trying to give my opinion how unfair is this for old players. I think is important for a game developer to keep the old players happy and to bring new people but in this case they only focus to get new people. well that is my point of view.

I agree with you. This remind me of membership model: members get discount price while regular customer pay full price. Old Players should be treated like this model while new players like me should pay full price.

My suggestion:

Players who are 2 years+ pay= discount price— $20
Players who are 1 and 1/2 years- 2 years pay= discount price— $30
Players who are 1 and 1/2 year to 1 year pay= discount price— $40
Players who are 1 year and -under pay= Full Price

What do you think?

(Old Players= Old Accounts= Pay Discount Price)
(New Players= New Accounts= Pay Full Price)

Which companies have ever discounted existing players for expansions not yet released?

Ayrilana.1396:

DarkSyze.8627:

fysorda.7501:

Ayrilana.1396:

fysorda.7501:

Hi , i dont play gw 2 a long time ago and i was thinking of playing again to see the expansion but why i have to pay the full price game again? i understand that for a new one that price is good because you get all at once but what happen to the old players? the logic think to do is to give us the option to buy only the expanson for 20 or 30 bucks. Is not fair that you punish the old players for only getting new players for more easy sells.

Read the post at the top of the page from Anet.

i already read that , i was trying to give my opinion how unfair is this for old players. I think is important for a game developer to keep the old players happy and to bring new people but in this case they only focus to get new people. well that is my point of view.

I agree with you. This remind me of membership model: members get discount price while regular customer pay full price. Old Players should be treated like this model while new players like me should pay full price.

My suggestion:

Players who are 2 years+ pay= discount price— $20
Players who are 1 and 1/2 years- 2 years pay= discount price— $30
Players who are 1 and 1/2 year to 1 year pay= discount price— $40
Players who are 1 year and -under pay= Full Price

What do you think?

(Old Players= Old Accounts= Pay Discount Price)
(New Players= New Accounts= Pay Full Price)

Which companies have ever discounted existing players for expansions not yet released?

Ayrilana.1396:

DarkSyze.8627:

fysorda.7501:

Ayrilana.1396:

fysorda.7501:

Hi , i dont play gw 2 a long time ago and i was thinking of playing again to see the expansion but why i have to pay the full price game again? i understand that for a new one that price is good because you get all at once but what happen to the old players? the logic think to do is to give us the option to buy only the expanson for 20 or 30 bucks. Is not fair that you punish the old players for only getting new players for more easy sells.

Read the post at the top of the page from Anet.

i already read that , i was trying to give my opinion how unfair is this for old players. I think is important for a game developer to keep the old players happy and to bring new people but in this case they only focus to get new people. well that is my point of view.

I agree with you. This remind me of membership model: members get discount price while regular customer pay full price. Old Players should be treated like this model while new players like me should pay full price.

My suggestion:

Players who are 2 years+ pay= discount price— $20
Players who are 1 and 1/2 years- 2 years pay= discount price— $30
Players who are 1 and 1/2 year to 1 year pay= discount price— $40
Players who are 1 year and -under pay= Full Price

What do you think?

(Old Players= Old Accounts= Pay Discount Price)
(New Players= New Accounts= Pay Full Price)

Which companies have ever discounted existing players for expansions not yet released?

Maybe instead of using the word discount: i should use the word Price instead— ?

MiniEquine: —

Players who are 2 years to 3 years pay= 0-$10
Players who are 1 and 1/2 years to 2 years pay= $20
Players who are 1 and 1/2 year to 1 year pay= $30
Players who are 1 year and -under pay=$40

I do think $50 is too much money for a expansion. ($40 and -under) should be fair price for expansions.

DarkSyze.8627:

Ayrilana.1396:

DarkSyze.8627:

fysorda.7501:

Ayrilana.1396:

fysorda.7501:

Hi , i dont play gw 2 a long time ago and i was thinking of playing again to see the expansion but why i have to pay the full price game again? i understand that for a new one that price is good because you get all at once but what happen to the old players? the logic think to do is to give us the option to buy only the expanson for 20 or 30 bucks. Is not fair that you punish the old players for only getting new players for more easy sells.

Read the post at the top of the page from Anet.

i already read that , i was trying to give my opinion how unfair is this for old players. I think is important for a game developer to keep the old players happy and to bring new people but in this case they only focus to get new people. well that is my point of view.

I agree with you. This remind me of membership model: members get discount price while regular customer pay full price. Old Players should be treated like this model while new players like me should pay full price.

My suggestion:

Players who are 2 years+ pay= discount price— $20
Players who are 1 and 1/2 years- 2 years pay= discount price— $30
Players who are 1 and 1/2 year to 1 year pay= discount price— $40
Players who are 1 year and -under pay= Full Price

What do you think?

(Old Players= Old Accounts= Pay Discount Price)
(New Players= New Accounts= Pay Full Price)

Which companies have ever discounted existing players for expansions not yet released?

Ayrilana.1396:

DarkSyze.8627:

fysorda.7501:

Ayrilana.1396:

fysorda.7501:

Hi , i dont play gw 2 a long time ago and i was thinking of playing again to see the expansion but why i have to pay the full price game again? i understand that for a new one that price is good because you get all at once but what happen to the old players? the logic think to do is to give us the option to buy only the expanson for 20 or 30 bucks. Is not fair that you punish the old players for only getting new players for more easy sells.

Read the post at the top of the page from Anet.

i already read that , i was trying to give my opinion how unfair is this for old players. I think is important for a game developer to keep the old players happy and to bring new people but in this case they only focus to get new people. well that is my point of view.

I agree with you. This remind me of membership model: members get discount price while regular customer pay full price. Old Players should be treated like this model while new players like me should pay full price.

My suggestion:

Players who are 2 years+ pay= discount price— $20
Players who are 1 and 1/2 years- 2 years pay= discount price— $30
Players who are 1 and 1/2 year to 1 year pay= discount price— $40
Players who are 1 year and -under pay= Full Price

What do you think?

(Old Players= Old Accounts= Pay Discount Price)
(New Players= New Accounts= Pay Full Price)

Which companies have ever discounted existing players for expansions not yet released?

Maybe instead of using the word discount: i should use the word Price instead— ?

MiniEquine: —

Players who are 2 years to 3 years pay= 0-$10
Players who are 1 and 1/2 years to 2 years pay= $20
Players who are 1 and 1/2 year to 1 year pay= $30
Players who are 1 year and -under pay=$40

I do think $50 is too much money for a expansion. ($40 and -under) should be fair price for expansions.

That’s the same thing as a discount.

I have no problem with the price, I paid it happily and have no regrets. I expect to get full value for my money; I’ve already gotten hours of beta fun for the price of a moderately nice dinner out with my husband.

I’m chiming in because of the current sway of the discussion towards pricing it lower for people who bought earlier. I disagree with this idea, but in the bizarre hypothetical world where it might be implemented, I suggest that it should be based on hours played, not date of purchase. Again, I disagree with charging less for people who’ve already had more fun, but it’s just not right to call someone a veteran because they bought the game at launch, played a week, and skarkered off. Want to give preferential treatment? Give it to those who’ve been an active part of the community and kept the game feeling lively for others playing.

I prepurchased GW2 three years ago at full price. I consider it to be an excellent value due to the number of hours I’ve played the game. I expect that when I pre purchase HoT, it will also be an excellent value.

Haven’t posted in this thread in about 2 months. I tried the new traits out like I said I would back then. Not impressed. Why? Because there are less options for builds.

Feedback relevant to now: I don’t think there is enough content. Definitely not enough information for me to open my wallet.

Pre-ordering isn’t how it used to be When I had to go to a brick and mortar store to get a physical copy of a game because digital distribution was non-existant it made sense. It made sense because that store could run out of copies. That issue doesn’t exist anymore. Yet you still want to sell pre-orders and not even tell me how many maps are in the x-pac? No thanks.

The lack of new legendary weapons is another deterrent for me.

I’ll be around. I’ll consider purchasing the next x-pac seeing as HoT will be included in the price provided we get more in the way of information. I’m not asking you to spoil the game. I’m asking you what my money is getting me. That used to be a reasonable thing to ask for and it still should be. I have asked so many questions and all of them have gone unanswered.

First of all, this isnt a pre-order, it is a pre-PURCHASE, vastly different things in nature.

Secondly, this price that they are asking? Is bog standard today, look at the recent WoW expansion for example, which was utter kitten, it cost a wooping 60$.

The price tag is the same as any other AAA title expansion, only difference is, they’ve addded the core game for free.

fysorda.7501:

Ayrilana.1396:

fysorda.7501:

Hi , i dont play gw 2 a long time ago and i was thinking of playing again to see the expansion but why i have to pay the full price game again? i understand that for a new one that price is good because you get all at once but what happen to the old players? the logic think to do is to give us the option to buy only the expanson for 20 or 30 bucks. Is not fair that you punish the old players for only getting new players for more easy sells.

Read the post at the top of the page from Anet.

i already read that , i was trying to give my opinion how unfair is this for old players. I think is important for a game developer to keep the old players happy and to bring new people but in this case they only focus to get new people. well that is my point of view.

Okey lets put it this way. 3 years ago company A releases a band new TV for the magical price of $60. 3 years later like all old product that TV fell in price and is now selling for $10. Soon they’re going to release a new product, bluray player complete with sound system that sells for $50. They figured its been 3 years now and the likeliness that people will buy our tv are pretty small. So why not make our new bluray player offering more attractive by giving the tv away for free with our bluray player? That way we might attract people who dont yet have a tv and whom otherwise would never buy our bluray player (because naturally you need a tv to use that)

How is this unfair on old customers who bought the TV? Arent companies free to discount their product if they choose to?

DarkSyze.8627:

fysorda.7501:

Ayrilana.1396:

fysorda.7501:

Hi , i dont play gw 2 a long time ago and i was thinking of playing again to see the expansion but why i have to pay the full price game again? i understand that for a new one that price is good because you get all at once but what happen to the old players? the logic think to do is to give us the option to buy only the expanson for 20 or 30 bucks. Is not fair that you punish the old players for only getting new players for more easy sells.

Read the post at the top of the page from Anet.

i already read that , i was trying to give my opinion how unfair is this for old players. I think is important for a game developer to keep the old players happy and to bring new people but in this case they only focus to get new people. well that is my point of view.

I agree with you. This remind me of membership model: members get discount price while regular customer pay full price. Old Players should be treated like this model while new players like me should pay full price.

My suggestion:

Players who are 2 years+ pay= discount price— $20
Players who are 1 and 1/2 years- 2 years pay= discount price— $30
Players who are 1 and 1/2 year to 1 year pay= discount price— $40
Players who are 1 year and -under pay= Full Price

What do you think?

(Old Players= Old Accounts= Pay Discount Price)
(New Players= New Accounts= Pay Full Price)

Awesome for players, crazy for companies. The biggest market for an expansion is old players why on earth would they gut their own market by up to 60% ? Who does that anyway?

But most of all why would someone who bought a product on day 1 deserve a 60% discount on the next product? As a customer I’d surely love if I could get the next model of my car for 40% of the price without doubt but I most definitely dont feel entitled to it just cause I paid full price on the previous model.

Incantus.8960:

First of all, this isnt a pre-order, it is a pre-PURCHASE, vastly different things in nature.

Secondly, this price that they are asking? Is bog standard today, look at the recent WoW expansion for example, which was utter kitten, it cost a wooping 60$.

The price tag is the same as any other AAA title expansion, only difference is, they’ve addded the core game for free.

And most of the other AAA titles either have a subscription or an “optional” subscription, which the majority of regular players are going to pay. The price of the expansion for the standalone expansion is part of the entire business plan of the game. Cash shop and expansion. Guild Wars 1 also had a cash shop and expansions.

The business model of other games is either sub or optional sub, plus charging for expansions or free to play but we’ll lock the really good professions or races behind a pay wall, or sell power directly. Look at what Archeage has done with their cash shop. The game may be “free to play” but it’s not free to play if you want to compete.

The price of the expansion would certainly seem high to me, if I were also paying $15 a month to access the game, but I’m not. I’m paying $50 every couple of years, or 3 years in this case. Well worth it to me, even if they do give new players an added incentive to buy it.

In fact, I’m happy that they offered this to new players, because as a person who enjoys this game, I always want to see new people trying it out.

not just this but also people are really focusing on themselves and not really look at this from Anet point of view.

Anet has one of the biggest if not the biggest MMO team.

At the core of its rewrite, thats when essentially square enix created an MMO in just 2 years, FFXIV had 300 people working on it.

The next in line is ESO and they have less then 250 people working on the game.

Anet have 350.

Many of those other MMOs release an expansion every 1-2 years. Anet is releasing theirs after 3 years. This is critical for everyone but people seem to ignore it. Think about it. 1 year extra means the Expansion has cost Anet more (wages mainly) It means its cheaper for us. a $40 expansion every 2 years equals 20$ a year. a 50 dollar expansion every 3 years means $16 per year. These things matter, its not just about the full price and thats it, you need to see that in context.

Like some MMOs release DLCs that cost a mere $10 a pop. Is that cheaper? if you just look at the price sure, its 5 times less. But in the grand scheme of things those DLCs release approximately every 3 months. All in all in a 3 year period you have to pay 2.5 times more then what you pay for HoT to play all the content released. not really cheaper at all!

MiniEquine.6014:

Since release, they have added 9 additional maps. They have also released two Living World story seasons free of charge if you logged in for them and included additional events like the Karka invasion, SAB, holiday events, etc.

They have also completely ruined several maps from a storyline perspective, damaged the storyline itself and produced numerous glitches in the process.

Rather than massively buff the Tequatl event as they did they could have introduced an entirely new dragon lieutenant to fight elsewhere. Try fighting it with an on level toon. To be honest I miss the old Teq.

The Karka invasion added very little to the game and nothing to the base storyline, if anything it was a distraction from core events. The Living World stuff at least led you to find a new dragon, but was this necessary to the core game?

Serious.7083:

The Karka invasion added very little to the game and nothing to the base storyline, if anything it was a distraction from core events. The Living World stuff at least led you to find a new dragon, but was this necessary to the core game?

The karka invasion introduced the consortium which in turn introduced Canach which is a major character in the story now. Additionally Southsun also propelled Ellen keil into the spotlight when we stopped the consortium from exploiting the refugees created the molten alliance invasion. Its probably what got her elected.

everything is intertwined together.

Serious.7083:

MiniEquine.6014:

Since release, they have added 9 additional maps. They have also released two Living World story seasons free of charge if you logged in for them and included additional events like the Karka invasion, SAB, holiday events, etc.

They have also completely ruined several maps from a storyline perspective, damaged the storyline itself and produced numerous glitches in the process.

Rather than massively buff the Tequatl event as they did they could have introduced an entirely new dragon lieutenant to fight elsewhere. Try fighting it with an on level toon. To be honest I miss the old Teq.

The Karka invasion added very little to the game and nothing to the base storyline, if anything it was a distraction from core events. The Living World stuff at least led you to find a new dragon, but was this necessary to the core game?

Necessary or not, if the question is about whether or not content has been released post-launch for free, GW2 has provided a lot of that for any player who has been around since the beginning. And aren’t content additions just that, distractions? It’s meant to keep us playing the game in one way or another.

It’s only of your opinion that things are ruined as this is a subjective statement. Some people actually like where they’ve gone with it, though I’ve only played for the past 8 months or so in earnest, so I wish I could have been around for everything I missed.

Could they have done a better job? Perhaps. There’s always room for improvement sure. I just won’t take people saying they haven’t released a lot post-launch when they clearly have, and none of it was at cost to the player.

Donari.5237:

I have no problem with the price, I paid it happily and have no regrets. I expect to get full value for my money; I’ve already gotten hours of beta fun for the price of a moderately nice dinner out with my husband.

I’m chiming in because of the current sway of the discussion towards pricing it lower for people who bought earlier. I disagree with this idea, but in the bizarre hypothetical world where it might be implemented, I suggest that it should be based on hours played, not date of purchase. Again, I disagree with charging less for people who’ve already had more fun, but it’s just not right to call someone a veteran because they bought the game at launch, played a week, and skarkered off. Want to give preferential treatment? Give it to those who’ve been an active part of the community and kept the game feeling lively for others playing.

I had an idea at one point where they could have benefited those who are actually their top customers. After all, the best customers are those that pay the most, no? If, say, for every 800 gems you bought with cash ($10) you would get $1 off of the expansion. That means that somebody who bought 40,000 gems (for $500), you could get the expansion at no additional cost. There are people who actually do this, but there are people who buy a few 800 gem packs here and there (like I do). Knocking a few $$ off of their expansion cost for directly supplementing the game through the gem store could have possibly worked. This would also show direct appreciation to the best customers with, possibly, the most invested time.

Galen Grey.4709:

not just this but also people are really focusing on themselves and not really look at this from Anet point of view.

Anet has one of the biggest if not the biggest MMO team.

At the core of its rewrite, thats when essentially square enix created an MMO in just 2 years, FFXIV had 300 people working on it.

The next in line is ESO and they have less then 250 people working on the game.

Anet have 350.

Many of those other MMOs release an expansion every 1-2 years. Anet is releasing theirs after 3 years. This is critical for everyone but people seem to ignore it. Think about it. 1 year extra means the Expansion has cost Anet more (wages mainly) It means its cheaper for us. a $40 expansion every 2 years equals 20$ a year. a 50 dollar expansion every 3 years means $16 per year. These things matter, its not just about the full price and thats it, you need to see that in context.

Like some MMOs release DLCs that cost a mere $10 a pop. Is that cheaper? if you just look at the price sure, its 5 times less. But in the grand scheme of things those DLCs release approximately every 3 months. All in all in a 3 year period you have to pay 2.5 times more then what you pay for HoT to play all the content released. not really cheaper at all!

seems like you are suggesting, as consumers, you should pay anet more money because they take longer to do something, and give you less content.

ill be honest, based on the way things are handled, it feels like anet has problems with content development in terms of timelines, vision, and amounts. (since after release, maybe before too, but we didnt have too much info) Until they solve those issues, many will be disatisfied.

Galen Grey.4709:

Many of those other MMOs release an expansion every 1-2 years. Anet is releasing theirs after 3 years. This is critical for everyone but people seem to ignore it. Think about it. 1 year extra means the Expansion has cost Anet more (wages mainly) It means its cheaper for us. a $40 expansion every 2 years equals 20$ a year. a 50 dollar expansion every 3 years means $16 per year.

You might want to hold off on using this argument beause it can put other companies in a better light than Anet.

$40 every 2 years means 5 expansions for $200, coming over a period of 10 years.

$50 every 3 years means 4 expansions for $200, coming over a period of 12 years.

The GW2 model means fewer expansions for the same cost and having to wait longer for the expansions o be delivered.

Of course we cannot, yet, fully comparethe contents of a GW2 expanssion to that of another company, but you were comparing numbers/cost of expansions which does not necessarily favor the $50 every 3 years plan. Who knows, perhaps GW2 expansions will be larger than other games’ expansions and may even come more frequently than every three years in the future.

This whole “they added the core game for free” is a cop-out, if the core game is only worth 10$ then charge me 40 for the expansion and i’m happy. That’s like selling a remote for 1000$ and throwing in the tv for free, doesn’t change the fact that i paid 1000$ for a tv when i simply wanted a new remote for my existing tv (same model). It still means new players are getting a better deal than me and i’m a veteran from beta with more than 2000hrs played, and i’ve spent 100s and 100s of dollars in the gem store, give me a freakin deal cause as it stands i’m not buying HoT. I could be underestimating the size and scope of HoT but i doubt it, if HoT was a bulky expansion with tons of new maps, gear etc then i’d def consider it but it just seems to be lacking, maybe some testers can shed some light. Anyways thx the for the 3 years of fun anet i really enjoyed your game and i’ll still pop in once and a while until Star Citizen goes live but then it’s over.

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

Wait a second (seeing as how this thread is very long and I don’t have time to read through all of it)

“Free Bonus” means that in the end it benefits you if you happen to get new players?…

“Free Bonus” for us who paid 75 dollars + it means bend over?

Am I right in this logic?

Let me explain seeing as how you must be stuck in one mindset which is marketing….

Player A: bought the game at the originally expensive price. Throughout the years he/she bought all kinds of things in the in game store. All of these expensive items are things that player A doesn’t need. None the less player A has been paying these costs so you can probably live a much richer life than player A does. So their loyalty counts for nothing. This relationship has been going on for years with no extra added content. Player A has diligently stuck with you this entire time…

Player B: Well this player has no idea how to play this game so they think lets try it. Player B (as with all influxes of players ruins the game for quite awhile due to their ignorance of the game, Players have to float said Player B, thank god this isn’t f2p that would never stop)… Player B gets a shiny new game + the LONG AWAITED DLC for the low price of 50 bux.

While Player A gets it from behind having to pay the same price because you included the base game as a BONUS? What a crock…. Please tell me that I am wrong and we players actually are not being treated like second class citizens.

Oh ya and if you are insulted due to the backdoor references think about how us players feel being back doored… we are your customers…

WHAT?! The expansion, which adds on to the core game is $50 alone!! It has far less than the core game and the core game is also required. It also costs A WHOLE LOT more than it, if I am to believe it’s $50. I believe it’s actually about $25 and you’re giving the core game to cover the $50 cost. I get it, a way to make money faster I guess, but at the cost of many not buying it right now, and poor business ethics. I thought it was $50 because it included the core game, but you state it isn’t true. I guess I definitely will not be buying this for a while, when I could get FULL games that I want for as much. $30 is reasonable, not $50 for an expansion with far less value than the core game. Also, the people who already own the game, in no way gets any type of compensation while buying the expansion, something like removing the core game from the bundle and giving a percentage off would be good, so many hate this. I know websites doing what I’ve already said, and they’re selling Heart of Thorns at about $35. Why won’t you do the same thing? And get that money directly.

Galen Grey.4709:

not just this but also people are really focusing on themselves and not really look at this from Anet point of view.

Anet has one of the biggest if not the biggest MMO team.

At the core of its rewrite, thats when essentially square enix created an MMO in just 2 years, FFXIV had 300 people working on it.

The next in line is ESO and they have less then 250 people working on the game.

Anet have 350.

Many of those other MMOs release an expansion every 1-2 years. Anet is releasing theirs after 3 years. This is critical for everyone but people seem to ignore it. Think about it. 1 year extra means the Expansion has cost Anet more (wages mainly) It means its cheaper for us. a $40 expansion every 2 years equals 20$ a year. a 50 dollar expansion every 3 years means $16 per year. These things matter, its not just about the full price and thats it, you need to see that in context.

Like some MMOs release DLCs that cost a mere $10 a pop. Is that cheaper? if you just look at the price sure, its 5 times less. But in the grand scheme of things those DLCs release approximately every 3 months. All in all in a 3 year period you have to pay 2.5 times more then what you pay for HoT to play all the content released. not really cheaper at all!

There’s a flaw here, you’re assuming they’ve been working on it since the game’s release. Who knows when they started? It was announced officially this year.

Skye.9637:

There’s a flaw here, you’re assuming they’ve been working on it since the game’s release. Who knows when they started? It was announced officially this year.

They likely started mid 2013.

I am pretty sure that Anet did never intend to bring out an expansion in the classic way.

The gem store pay model is actually a really nice idea. It´s a really, really low entrance point to join the game and works on the seduction of the weak-willed and lazy impulse buyers who don´t care if their privacy went straight out of the window with faceroll, ehm, facebook and such stuff. It is a demography which is growing leaps and bounds in western civilization. If you are a gritty, down to earth gaming veteran aiming for efficiency that does not care if your character has a blue or a red bandana, you´re not the main target of such a plattform anyway. But a long thought over dollar still can be expected from you for game stuff that is useful.

For whatever reason, Anet wants to jump on the Esport hypetrain, but that will never ever happen. If a game is branded as flawed, it will have a hard time to reemege again in that special kind of playground.

Probably everyone with an internet connection had an offer from the provider with the red/pinkish logo with a white T in it. Did you notice that the best offers there go also just to new customers and not to the ones they already have? Customer relationship is a tricky web of bunking on lazyness, functionality and hype. If you really think about an eyephone, it is just a really modern stone with some moss on it. Some neanderthal points it finger on the screen to feel the surface and to see how the moss on the stone moves in the wind or under his fingers. Or imagine an ape fishing for insects with a stick…

drixil.1395:

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

Wait a second (seeing as how this thread is very long and I don’t have time to read through all of it)

“Free Bonus” means that in the end it benefits you if you happen to get new players?…

“Free Bonus” for us who paid 75 dollars + it means bend over?

Am I right in this logic?

Let me explain seeing as how you must be stuck in one mindset which is marketing….

Player A: bought the game at the originally expensive price. Throughout the years he/she bought all kinds of things in the in game store. All of these expensive items are things that player A doesn’t need. None the less player A has been paying these costs so you can probably live a much richer life than player A does. So their loyalty counts for nothing. This relationship has been going on for years with no extra added content. Player A has diligently stuck with you this entire time…

Player B: Well this player has no idea how to play this game so they think lets try it. Player B (as with all influxes of players ruins the game for quite awhile due to their ignorance of the game, Players have to float said Player B, thank god this isn’t f2p that would never stop)… Player B gets a shiny new game + the LONG AWAITED DLC for the low price of 50 bux.

While Player A gets it from behind having to pay the same price because you included the base game as a BONUS? What a crock…. Please tell me that I am wrong and we players actually are not being treated like second class citizens.

Oh ya and if you are insulted due to the backdoor references think about how us players feel being back doored… we are your customers…

The amount of selfishness and self-entitelment is quite literally pouring out from your post. I am sorry if I sound rude, but do you really believe Anet are in some way indepted to you, because you purchased their product 3 years ago?

Probably you will counter me by saying you have put a lot of money into the gem store? That maybe right, but putting money into the gem store is completely OPTIONAL and in no way required to get the full out of the game. Everything for sale into the gem store (skins, boosters, additional convienances) are in no way required to enjoy the game. The one exception might be the additional inventory and bank slots, but with the option for currency exchange e.g gold/gem its quite easy to get those without paying any real currency for gems. I will assume I am right when i say many of the veteran players are actually doing this because currently 400 gems are exchanged for 63g. Its not hard to do the math, how much gold a player with 5 lvl 80 characters is making every day. They are of course many who put real money into the game, but they are doing it, because THIS is their choice, and they show their support for the game they love and the company this way.
Anet in no way forced you to put your money into the gem store. This decision was yours and yours alone. Why on earth you even put money for items you dont need? I assume it wasn’t from the bottom of your heart to just support the game you like, otherwise you wouldn’t be now here complaining about it.

About the part many people are concerned about that they as long standing players, are somehow getting worse deal with the expansion than new players, look on it from different perspective. The old players, those who have been playing for 2+ years, or from the very beginning got LW season 1 and you got also LW season 2 for free. New players cant even play LW S1 and probably never will be, and also they need to pay 20 euros to play LW S2, and the experience they will get wont be near the same as the one old players got when the whole server was playing the content and all related event simultaniously. So exactly are we getting a better deal? We don’t, yet you dont see me going around the forum, creating topic left and right, about how unfair it is, right? Because I have no problem paying little extra to support the game i already have been enjoying for 1 full month since i purchased it without worrying about monthly sub fees, and because I understand how business actually works.

Im not going to even comment on your statement how richer the devs have been getting from your money, because it utterly redicilous. You clearly have no idea how things work in the real world.

There is legit concerns in this topic about the price/content ratio, and I completely understand and support them. For some people 50$ for a single expansion is a lot of money, and there is no harm in any way to want more information, before putting your hard earned money into something. The rest of the complains can simply be sum up like this: “Im old player, and im entitled to a 60% discount, or better yet free expansion, because i bought the game 3 years ago, and i have been putting money into the gem store all this time, never mind that this was my choice alone, and i got everything out for my money, that the fine print said i will get.”

Its time to understand, that Anet like any other company out there are running business, and not charity. They are offering a product, which you inform yourself about, and decide if its worth for your to purchase or not. Also understand that the fact Guild Wars 2 is a monthly sub free game, means that you’ll have to pay a little extra for any expansion, whether you like it or not. Afterall this is an MMO game and as such it requires every day maintance of their servers, teams who work on bringing you new content etc, for which they have to pay the people working for them.

The expansion costs the price, Anet decided to rate their product. From there everyone is free to decide for themselves is it worth it to buy it or not. The free character slot was a nice compliment from them to the old players, even tho they weren’t obligated in any way to do it.

Cheers!

i just logged in today after a year and was ready to play again only to find out now i have to spend another $50 for the new content. no thank you. i thought the business model of this game was no expansions cause content updates were part of your initial purchase. i definitely won’t be buying this for $50. i’m not even going to install this game again.

misterDEAN.3027:

i just logged in today after a year and was ready to play again only to find out now i have to spend another $50 for the new content. no thank you. i thought the business model of this game was no expansions cause content updates were part of your initial purchase. i definitely won’t be buying this for $50. i’m not even going to install this game again.

Good idea, also another good idea would have been not bother us and just leave forum, game and everything which reminds you the enormous ammount of money you spent on the game… goodbye.

misterDEAN.3027:

i just logged in today after a year and was ready to play again only to find out now i have to spend another $50 for the new content. no thank you. i thought the business model of this game was no expansions cause content updates were part of your initial purchase. i definitely won’t be buying this for $50. i’m not even going to install this game again.

To clarify, ANet never said that a paid expansion was off the table, only that they were considering alternative options to provide the types of things that expansions usually come with. They never said that all content updates for the life of the game were part of the initial purchase. The push for an expansion seems to have come from both NCSoft, and from the fan-base, which demanded an expansion loudly and often.

You’d be hard pressed to find any games with a Buy-to-Play model that don’t at some point charge for new content. Of the two most noteworthy B2P MMO’s, TSW charges for content episodes and ESO has not been B2P for long, but is releasing DLC for Crowns at the end of this month.

Your choice. However, your expectation of being able to play new content forever at no additional cost is neither supported by what ANet said nor by patterns in the industry.

From what I’ve seen in the way of content 50$ is still too steep, I will just wait until it goes on sale or hits a price break.

50$ not to steep when you consider that a lot of the updates for HOT, are coming to us free too. New pvp and wvw map access by all, even if you do not have HoT. There who knows what else is comming before release, and after release most likely patches and such. 50$ also goes to pay the work force since all most people done is donate money when they buy gems, they have not ask for a penny after you bought the game, and as such, it might be worth to buy their work to play. You can still wait, no harm in that, but to me, it does seem like were getting a fair deal. Yeah we had to fight a little for the character slot, but that seem good in the long run, as I am sure, if we get a new expansion they will take the lesson learn here more to heart too.

TJgalon.5012:

50$ not to steep when you consider that a lot of the updates for HOT, are coming to us free too. New pvp and wvw map access by all, even if you do not have HoT. There who knows what else is comming before release, and after release most likely patches and such. 50$ also goes to pay the work force since all most people done is donate money when they buy gems, they have not ask for a penny after you bought the game, and as such, it might be worth to buy their work to play. You can still wait, no harm in that, but to me, it does seem like were getting a fair deal. Yeah we had to fight a little for the character slot, but that seem good in the long run, as I am sure, if we get a new expansion they will take the lesson learn here more to heart too.

That’s the problem we don’t know what’s coming. I paid 50$ before and got approximately 25 maps , 8 professions, 8 dungeons, 5 character slots, 5 races, and a multi path personal story just to hit on the high points of what the core game offered the day it was installed.
—

That said, the best i can glean from ambiguous advertising for HOT is,

1. A new profession, this is pretty self explanatory

2. Specializations for each class, players got to try this recently over the BWE and the feed back is mixed, some good some bad.

3. Guild Halls … ok cool, we get guild halls, and this means? What I am getting at is not much has been said here about Guild Halls other than that they are going to be a thing now.

4. A mastery system, which give skills that are specific to the new content. Outside of the new content where are you going to need to go " hang gliding in the jungle" or be engaged in “tearing the bark off of heavily armored Mordrem”? Yeah that’s right you aren’t going to be hang gliding over the Plains of Ashford or facing Mordrem in Sorrow’s Embrace. You’ll only need these skills in the new zones which leads me to my next point…

We have no idea how many maps the new content will contain. It could be the one that was shown in the BWE or there could be 3 more but its doubtful that it will be 25 maps worth to explore.

I guess since we are getting the new PVP and WVW map there’s no need to include these in the list since it’s basically free. They have gave us plenty of new maps and Living story content already for the 50$ or less that we paid depending on when we purchased the core game.

I just haven’t seen enough material here to equal 50$ worth of gameplay, and you are correct in that we had to FIGHT for that character slot. That wasn’t part of the initial package.

Lastly packing the core game with a vague amount of expansion content together just to set the price and 50$ is a questionable move. This only benefits someone who doesn’t’ have GW2 at all, which would be a fair deal for them. However, I like many others, already own the core game and I don’t want to buy it again so why am I paying for it if I don’t want it exactly? I don’t want another account either, I just want to buy the HOT content at a lower price point than the HOT content and the core game bundled together at 50$ because I already have the core game.

The two products should be separated and the prices should be different, but of course they can sell them as a bundle for 50$.

HOT isn’t a full game so why pay full price for a partial game?

Sources:

https://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/en/?_ga=1.24643647.462803807.1409879390
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dungeon
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Map_completion

MastaNeenja.1537:

However, I like many others, already own the core game and I don’t want to buy it again so why am I paying for it if I don’t want it exactly?

Whether or not HoT is worth $50 is a personal decision. Currently I am not convinced that it is worth buying at all. That, of course, may change as more information is released.

But, specifically in reference to the quoted section of your post, you are not buying the core game again. You are buying the expansion. In an attempt to draw in new players Anet is providing a bonus for new accounts. This isnt all that much different than what many retailers do to attract new customers.

Attracting new customers is important for Anet and GW2 because it means income. it is important to players because it means income to replace the inevitable drop off from those who leave or run out of things to buy in game. More people to play with, more resources for development, in general a healthier game.

Again, is $50 too much ? That will vary from person to person. Right now, based on what we have seen so far, I would say that $5 is too much. On the other hand I would be willing to pay $100 or more if the expansion addressed my concerns and desires for the game.