Guild Wars 2

I was “working” to unlock Chronomancer tonight/this morning on my alt account.

Truthfully, as hard as Chronomancer was nerfed ( after I bought HoT specifically to play the class) it’s not worth the effort. I do better on PU condi than on Chronomancer.

I have to admit that I’m angry that there was huge power creep until after the initial HoT buying pulse. This encouraged people to buy. Then, the nerf hammer fell. It feels pretty deliberate.

The great trains from the first days of HoT are gone because the Silverwaste is easier and more profitable to farm. So now unlocks are a long and painful process.

It’s no longer worth the time and effort to get through the unlocking proccess.

a few things to consider:

1. chronomancer is still very good in pve.
2. you can use the Proof of Heroics you get from wvw level up to unlock hero points(I’m just assuming you’re a wvw player given pu condi)
3. maps are still populated, but may require you to use the lfg at right time.
4. hero point runs are still being organised. Keep an eye open on Reddit or the forum(alternatively ask there/here/your guild)

I agree in that nerf hammer has hit Chrono hard. Not going to argue if they were too good or not but their usefulness compared to other classes is currently low. There are situations where I think pure Mesmer is better then Chrono and that means as elite specs it has failed.

Ithilwen.1529:

I was “working” to unlock Chronomancer tonight/this morning on my alt account.

Truthfully, as hard as Chronomancer was nerfed ( after I bought HoT specifically to play the class) it’s not worth the effort. I do better on PU condi than on Chronomancer.

I have to admit that I’m angry that there was huge power creep until after the initial HoT buying pulse. This encouraged people to buy. Then, the nerf hammer fell. It feels pretty deliberate.

The great trains from the first days of HoT are gone because the Silverwaste is easier and more profitable to farm. So now unlocks are a long and painful process.

It’s no longer worth the time and effort to get through the unlocking proccess.

Chronomancer is still a very useful elite specialization even for PU condi. You can burst through your skills within a short duration with CS and then reset recharges (and your own position) for those skills. Continuum Shift make it possible to use what ever skill you wish within that timeframe you set up from how many illusions you shatter with it. Alacrity is still there to cut down a bit on recharges although not as much as before and you can combine it to get quickness on shatter from Chrono GM trait. There is also option to get back two illusions when you shatter or one (chrono)phantasm, so you will not lack illusions or need to wait until your weapon summon more illusions when you shatter. Deceptive Evasive will cost you endurance (Dueling give you some Vigor), so there is a limit for how fast you can re-summon illusions.

With Wells you have another tool for giving (AoE) support to a small group. Gravity Well is very useful against break bars or when you have a large group of mobs as it will pull them into one spot which make it easier to focus fire. Here is shields ToT very useful as it stuns and damage every thing it passes through. Echo of memory from shield do not root you as some other blocking skills might do, so you can move around and also trigger it again for two or even three times in succession to do both block and a phantasm. In that way you will fast have new illusions to shatter when needed and with Size the moment (quickness from shatter) you will be able to keep up quickness from ToT.

Chronomancer have as base 25 % movement speed, so you will not need Runes of Traveler or feel a strong desire to use Focus for getting around at the same speed as other run.

Ithilwen.1529:

I was “working” to unlock Chronomancer tonight/this morning on my alt account.

Truthfully, as hard as Chronomancer was nerfed ( after I bought HoT specifically to play the class) it’s not worth the effort. I do better on PU condi than on Chronomancer.

I have to admit that I’m angry that there was huge power creep until after the initial HoT buying pulse. This encouraged people to buy. Then, the nerf hammer fell. It feels pretty deliberate.

The great trains from the first days of HoT are gone because the Silverwaste is easier and more profitable to farm. So now unlocks are a long and painful process.

It’s no longer worth the time and effort to get through the unlocking proccess.

I agree, its really not worth the time, effort, or resources to start up a chrono at this point. What they do still provide is outclassed by pretty much every other profession (damage, buffs, debuffs, boons, healing, tanking….all done better by others). Chrono had a very narrow reason for being included in group content…and ANET destroyed that. I regret that I got baited into putting resources into it, but at least I have multiple other professions fully unlocked and geared to play instead.

I have both a condi shatter and a stunlock mesmer build that finds chronomancer essential. I also have a phantasmal killer build that doesn’t use chrono.

Chrono is still very strong, even after the nerfhammer – fact is, I think it was TOO good at the time, and Mesmer is my main. So the nerfhammer was perhaps appropriate this time around.

33% faster skill recharge is still really good for any group….

Granted they did get the hit with the sledge hammer Anet named “Balance” and still have room for minor buffs to make up for it like changing cooldowns on wells, or increasing the effectiveness of traits.

FogLeg.9354:

Not going to argue if they were too good or not but their usefulness compared to other classes is currently low.

You can say that, but it doesn’t make it true.

They went from bloody mandatory to yeah, that’s still amazing.

There are situations where I think pure Mesmer is better then Chrono and that means as elite specs it has failed.

((snort)) Your expectations are so skewed they’re not even wrong.

ODB.6891:

I agree, its really not worth the time, effort, or resources to start up a chrono at this point. What they do still provide is outclassed by pretty much every other profession (damage, buffs, debuffs, boons, healing, tanking….all done better by others)

Alacrity is still good and no other class can provide perma quickness. Chronos are still used in all kinds of instanced pve content, especially raids.

Chris McSwag.4683:

ODB.6891:

I agree, its really not worth the time, effort, or resources to start up a chrono at this point. What they do still provide is outclassed by pretty much every other profession (damage, buffs, debuffs, boons, healing, tanking….all done better by others)

Alacrity is still good and no other class can provide perma quickness. Chronos are still used in all kinds of instanced pve content, especially raids.

Alacrity is still good, don’t get me wrong. A lot of things are good, but you won’t necessarily reserve a group spot for them. I may be wrong, the math may actually prove me wrong, but other classes are looking really good as alternatives to bringing a chrono since that series of compounding nerfs. There were already classes that got minimal benefit from alacrity (thieves in particular) and now thieves have had their auto buffed to be top tier dps. I have no idea how the math actually works out as far as how many seconds alacrity actually shaves off of relevant cool downs now, so that will make the difference…whether the 33% and quickness uptime still is really worth the slot for such low dps. The combination that really made that work was Herald (FoN) + Chrono (alacrity+quickness). Now Herald has been reduced to a support bot as well….now you have two low dps slots trying to achieve half the effect as before. I was pretty disturbed to hear a raid leader say that “we don’t bring Heralds for dps, we bring them for boons.” I can’t say I disagree with him, but that bodes ill for Heralds. We already see the treatment Chrono got for being a support bot. Is this really what ANET intended when they advertised Chrono and Herald, as the poster children of all their HoT pre release hype? Two low dps support bots. I know Guards have significantly less uptime on quickness, but with thier dps buff…and the nerfs to Chrono/Herald…that just seems like it could be a replacement scenario. Again, I’m just going off of perception and not raw numbers though.

Chrono and Herald are group support though, so i fail to see what your complaint is unless its numerical, in which case it needs more numbers than the words you’re using.

As is there’s quite a few classes that fill the role of offensive support. Chrono/Druid/Herald/Warrior and i don’t think your taking any of these for their amazing individual DPS. If you are then i have to question what your metrics are for good individual DPS is.

As long as Chronomancer remains as the only profession that can dish out Team-wide Quickness and Alacrity for extended periods of time, they ain’t never gonna become obsolete.

Is it wrong that Chronomancer is nothing but a Quickness-and-Alacrity-bot? I’unno, is it wrong that Warrior is nothing but a Might-and-banner-bot? Druid is nothing but a Heal-and-Buff-bot? Herald is nothing but a Fury-and-50%BoonDuration-bot? And the fact that Engineers and Reapers are Condi-and-CC-bots?

Every profession is equally specialized and provides (in theory) something equally important to the team.

I went play DS one day and sees in my Lane no chrono at all. We hit mobs look okay but meh. Then another day I went again same Lane but I sees purple chrono skills. I stand in purple things and then mobs die faster I think so is still good and happy

Edited for expression

Well it all depends from the point of view from which you see it. If condemn the use of your skills to a certain rotation to share the alacrity and share quickness 100% instead of focusing on the combat is fun ok. If instead of dodge or use your skills to survive when necessary, cc or improve your combat skill, etc… you must focus on the share rotation until downed to avoid reading in the chat that you are not sharing enough quickness is fun ok. Sadly you don’t have the freedom that other professions have to acomplish their goal, at least if what is expected from you is be the dedicated Quickness-and-Alacrity-source. Do always the same thing is like listening a scratched disc.

TheSwede.9512:

As long as Chronomancer remains as the only profession that can dish out Team-wide Quickness and Alacrity for extended periods of time, they ain’t never gonna become obsolete.

Is it wrong that Chronomancer is nothing but a Quickness-and-Alacrity-bot? I’unno, is it wrong that Warrior is nothing but a Might-and-banner-bot? Druid is nothing but a Heal-and-Buff-bot? Herald is nothing but a Fury-and-50%BoonDuration-bot? And the fact that Engineers and Reapers are Condi-and-CC-bots?

Every profession is equally specialized and provides (in theory) something equally important to the team.

PS warrior damage isn’t bad, and a good PS warrior is still going to be doing significantly more damage than a below average full DPS build, and condition warrior/full DPS build warrior damage is still competitive with other heavy DPS classes.

Try measuring your damage as a chronomancer. With how heavily their group support was nerfed, they really should have been given a personal dps increase to compensate for it.

Nike.2631:

FogLeg.9354:

Not going to argue if they were too good or not but their usefulness compared to other classes is currently low.

You can say that, but it doesn’t make it true.

They went from bloody mandatory to yeah, that’s still amazing.

There are situations where I think pure Mesmer is better then Chrono and that means as elite specs it has failed.

((snort)) Your expectations are so skewed they’re not even wrong.

True or false. Right or wrong. There are no absolutes in this.

Depends what gamemode you play mostly. Depends who you play it with. For me Chrono is not very good, for you its most amazing. I understand that. Hope you will too.

TexZero.7910:

Chrono and Herald are group support though, so i fail to see what your complaint is unless its numerical, in which case it needs more numbers than the words you’re using.

As is there’s quite a few classes that fill the role of offensive support. Chrono/Druid/Herald/Warrior and i don’t think your taking any of these for their amazing individual DPS. If you are then i have to question what your metrics are for good individual DPS is.

The only two professions that are not group support are thief and necro. Every other profession offers significant boon/buff support to parties. The distinction that this is about is when the support functions far outweigh and overshadow the dps contribution. That’s when the term support bot starts to apply.

Of course the complaint is numerical…that’s obvious. This is a stat driven game…like most mmo type games. Effectiveness is going to depend on numbers to a large degree. This game offers choices on what professions to bring, and that is affected by what the different professions offer and how efficiently they offer these things. That’s what the meta is all about. Push one profession too far down a specific path…away from the dps centric focus of the game…and it falls out of the meta unless it offers something seriously irreplaceable. We just witnessed what happens when a profession offers something that is that irreplaceable…it gets a big fat nerf to make it not be mandatory. My complaint is about this type of scenario.

I don’t think any profession should be relegated to trash level dps in this type of game. One of the reasons I bought GW2, in the first place, was to escape the role casting of previous games. Tanks, healers, dps, and the forced expectations of any hybrid type profession from being relegated to a forced role such as a healer/support bot. This game’s design allowed a departure from that…since everyone was able to be self sufficient in their own survival and offer group support in some way. Its starting to slip away from that…into forced roles and hybrid professions being obligated to fill a specified role. We’re already seeing that with the druid…who wants a regular ranger when you can have a druid? Druid gives everything you would want from a core ranger + healing + more dps buffs for the party. Don’t get me wrong, I’m loving druid. I have been playing one a lot since the chrono and herald nerfs. I don’t mind the healing aspect either. I’m just noticing and I am wary of the direction the game is heading…when professions are starting to get labeled as support or healing…and expected to have low dps in this dps-centric design. I’m not looking forward to an eventual wow clone….when you routinely see groups looking for a tank, healer, and dps.

Roxanne.6140:

I went play DS one day and sees in my Lane no chrono at all. We hit mobs look okay but meh. Then another day I went again same Lane but I sees purple chrono skills. I stand in purple things and then mobs die faster I think so is still good and happy

Edited for expression

lmao

Zoser.7245:

Well it all depends from the point of view from which you see it. If condemn the use of your skills to a certain rotation to share the alacrity and share quickness 100% instead of focusing on the combat is fun ok. If instead of dodge or use your skills to survive when necessary, cc or improve your combat skill, etc… you must focus on the share rotation until downed to avoid reading in the chat that you are not sharing enough quickness is fun ok. Sadly you don’t have the freedom that other professions have to acomplish their goal, at least if what is expected from you is be the dedicated Quickness-and-Alacrity-source. Do always the same thing is like listening a scratched disc.

I understand you. In my profession, I really have fun playing in a group/raid/team, about all because I can do what is expected from me being active and reactive in the fight. What is expected from me is inherit of my skills without being focused in a particular rotation. If you are more o less forced to do that or frowned upon, even reproach, has to be annoying and irritating.

ODB.6891:

TexZero.7910:

Chrono and Herald are group support though, so i fail to see what your complaint is unless its numerical, in which case it needs more numbers than the words you’re using.

As is there’s quite a few classes that fill the role of offensive support. Chrono/Druid/Herald/Warrior and i don’t think your taking any of these for their amazing individual DPS. If you are then i have to question what your metrics are for good individual DPS is.

The only two professions that are not group support are thief and necro. Every other profession offers significant boon/buff support to parties. The distinction that this is about is when the support functions far outweigh and overshadow the dps contribution. That’s when the term support bot starts to apply.

Of course the complaint is numerical…that’s obvious. This is a stat driven game…like most mmo type games. Effectiveness is going to depend on numbers to a large degree. This game offers choices on what professions to bring, and that is affected by what the different professions offer and how efficiently they offer these things. That’s what the meta is all about. Push one profession too far down a specific path…away from the dps centric focus of the game…and it falls out of the meta unless it offers something seriously irreplaceable. We just witnessed what happens when a profession offers something that is that irreplaceable…it gets a big fat nerf to make it not be mandatory. My complaint is about this type of scenario.

I don’t think any profession should be relegated to trash level dps in this type of game. One of the reasons I bought GW2, in the first place, was to escape the role casting of previous games. Tanks, healers, dps, and the forced expectations of any hybrid type profession from being relegated to a forced role such as a healer/support bot. This game’s design allowed a departure from that…since everyone was able to be self sufficient in their own survival and offer group support in some way. Its starting to slip away from that…into forced roles and hybrid professions being obligated to fill a specified role. We’re already seeing that with the druid…who wants a regular ranger when you can have a druid? Druid gives everything you would want from a core ranger + healing + more dps buffs for the party. Don’t get me wrong, I’m loving druid. I have been playing one a lot since the chrono and herald nerfs. I don’t mind the healing aspect either. I’m just noticing and I am wary of the direction the game is heading…when professions are starting to get labeled as support or healing…and expected to have low dps in this dps-centric design. I’m not looking forward to an eventual wow clone….when you routinely see groups looking for a tank, healer, and dps.

I see your problem here. You are equating an entire specialization to a profession.
Mesmer DPS is just fine if not playing stack wars and actually are allowed to setup burst rotations.

Chrono (PvE meta) sacrifices its burst for group utility and self sustain.

I fail to see how this is an issue, unless you somehow want Chronomancers to somehow tank and deal DPS on par with everyone else while buffing everyone else with 50%skill action and 33% skill recharge rate ?

TexZero.7910:

I see your problem here. You are equating an entire specialization to a profession.
Mesmer DPS is just fine if not playing stack wars and actually are allowed to setup burst rotations.

Chrono (PvE meta) sacrifices its burst for group utility and self sustain.

I fail to see how this is an issue, unless you somehow want Chronomancers to somehow tank and deal DPS on par with everyone else while buffing everyone else with 50%skill action and 33% skill recharge rate ?

I see your problem here. You assume that I am equating an entire specialization to a profession erroneously. I merely say chrono instead of mesmer because the expectation of taking the chrono trait line for high end group pve is a no brainer. This is due to the issue with the core mesmer being trash in said environment ever since reflects stopped being a thing. The same is the case for the herald versus revenant…the expectation is that you will trait herald for high end pve for FoN and other facets. Its no point really in not referring to the e-specs as the entire profession..even though the e-spec is just one trait line.

Mesmer dps has never been “fine” in high end pve. Shatter dps is just what you said, burst dps…that’s for pvp/wvw. I don’t think either core mes or chrono has an issue in pvp/wvw.

I do have an issue with any design that makes a profession “sacrifice” having decent sustained dps to be a support bot….at least in this game. The whole notion of needing to “sacrifice” dps goes out of the window when you look at other professions like guards with that same type of 50% skill action buff…just lesser up time….with much higher dps in addtion to all of their other offerings like perma prot, frequent aegis application, etc. Compared with warriors and banners, decent group fury up time, group might stacks, and of course their dps level. I’m sure there are other examples as well, but the issue I see is that there does not need to be a “sacrifice” if they spread out group utility AND dps. That’s what the original design of the game was…but they are edging more and more towards trinity and roles.

ODB.6891:

TexZero.7910:

I see your problem here. You are equating an entire specialization to a profession.
Mesmer DPS is just fine if not playing stack wars and actually are allowed to setup burst rotations.

Chrono (PvE meta) sacrifices its burst for group utility and self sustain.

I fail to see how this is an issue, unless you somehow want Chronomancers to somehow tank and deal DPS on par with everyone else while buffing everyone else with 50%skill action and 33% skill recharge rate ?

I see your problem here. You assume that I am equating an entire specialization to a profession erroneously. I merely say chrono instead of mesmer because the expectation of taking the chrono trait line for high end group pve is a no brainer. This is due to the issue with the core mesmer being trash in said environment ever since reflects stopped being a thing. The same is the case for the herald versus revenant…the expectation is that you will trait herald for high end pve for FoN and other facets. Its no point really in not referring to the e-specs as the entire profession..even though the e-spec is just one trait line.

Mesmer dps has never been “fine” in high end pve. Shatter dps is just what you said, burst dps…that’s for pvp/wvw. I don’t think either core mes or chrono has an issue in pvp/wvw.

I do have an issue with any design that makes a profession “sacrifice” having decent sustained dps to be a support bot….at least in this game. The whole notion of needing to “sacrifice” dps goes out of the window when you look at other professions like guards with that same type of 50% skill action buff…just lesser up time….with much higher dps in addtion to all of their other offerings like perma prot, frequent aegis application, etc. Compared with warriors and banners, decent group fury up time, group might stacks, and of course their dps level. I’m sure there are other examples as well, but the issue I see is that there does not need to be a “sacrifice” if they spread out group utility AND dps. That’s what the original design of the game was…but they are edging more and more towards trinity and roles.

See the problem here is you’re trying to make every class ubiquitous in nature and that just doesn’t work. Every class has it’s tradeoffs. Memser’s is being balance around large packets of damage, not sustained Damage. That the entire reason they even have shattering to begin with. Now maybe the next e-spec will fix that, who knows. But right now not only are you comparing apples to oranges (tank to dps) you’re also trying to compare different ways of dealing damage sustained to burst and it just doesn’t work.

I can almost unequivocally guarantee that if a chrono was running chrono-shatter and not this tank stuff their DPS would be on par with most other classes +/- 8%

TexZero.7910:

See the problem here is you’re trying to make every class ubiquitous in nature and that just doesn’t work. Every class has it’s tradeoffs. Memser’s is being balance around large packets of damage, not sustained Damage. That the entire reason they even have shattering to begin with. Now maybe the next e-spec will fix that, who knows. But right now not only are you comparing apples to oranges (tank to dps) you’re also trying to compare different ways of dealing damage sustained to burst and it just doesn’t work.

I can almost unequivocally guarantee that if a chrono was running chrono-shatter and not this tank stuff their DPS would be on par with most other classes +/- 8%

I have to disagree with you on the shatter sustained dps. I have never seen any group that brings a mesmer of any build for dps. That is anecdotal evidence, though, so I’ll leave the numbers up to someone else. I would however tend to believe that anecdotal evidence instead of a random belief though.

I also don’t think that all professions having competitive dps would make anything ubiquitous. What makes professions stand apart are mechanics and utility. The original design of this game was built upon the GW2 specific trinity of damage, control, and support. That was not split into only doing one or two of those things at a time…it was with each profession bringing all of those things in one build to varying degrees. It actually worked very well, so I have to disagree again with you saying that it doesn’t work. The only reason that the game is moving towards the wow/eq type trinity is because of players who refuse to adapt to this different game design…and ANET’s desire to please and retain these players.

ODB.6891:

Of course the complaint is numerical…that’s obvious. This is a stat driven game…like most mmo type games. Effectiveness is going to depend on numbers to a large degree. This game offers choices on what professions to bring, and that is affected by what the different professions offer and how efficiently they offer these things. That’s what the meta is all about. Push one profession too far down a specific path…away from the dps centric focus of the game…and it falls out of the meta unless it offers something seriously irreplaceable. We just witnessed what happens when a profession offers something that is that irreplaceable…it gets a big fat nerf to make it not be mandatory. My complaint is about this type of scenario.

If your complaints are numerical, then why complain about the chrono? It’s still very much meta and often even taken for each subsquad in a raid. Many of the meta builds (DH hammer auto spam as well as DD staff spam for example) are entirely based on that perma quickness being there.