Guild Wars 2

Within the past day or so it was discovered by the Ranger subforum that Electric Wyverns were only available upon successfully completing the meta-event in Dragon’s Stand, and since then there’s been a massive influx of Rangers interested in the map trying to claim their wyvern. Of course, this has resulted in a relatively large population of Rangers migrating to the zone to try and complete the event, reducing the percentage of other less-invested classes.

Of course, this is causing the events to fail far more frequently, because Rangers lack many of the tools needed to be successful in these types of events and can’t put out as much damage as many other classes, which is a huge deal considering how timing-based and DPS-reliant Dragon’s Stand is.

If ArenaNet is going to gate profession-specific content behind this meta-event, can they at least introduce a new utility skill for every class and gate its acquisition in Dragon’s Domain as well? At least then everyone would be interested in slogging through this event and we wouldn’t have the class-stacking problem we have now.

Alternatively, can Electric Wyverns be moved elsewhere in the zone to stop the current congestion?

I’m stuck between being amazed at your classist prejudices and remembering that most rangers seem to still be in Point Blank Shot Meta.

Still, the problem isn’t rangers, it’s bad rangers.

Windsagio.1340:

I’m stuck between being amazed at your classist prejudices and remembering that most rangers seem to still be in Point Blank Shot Meta.

Still, the problem isn’t rangers, it’s bad rangers.

Class-stacking in an event like this is bad, period, and thus it’s bad that Rangers are more invested in this event than anyone else. A surplus of Thieves or Elementalists or Warriors (well, maybe not Guardians) would be about as bad. The only classism here is in saying that Ranger is an undertuned profession – low DPS and low party support outside Druid does not make for a good class in tough events like these. The fact that bearbows still exist only hurts more.

Plus it’s not as if the Ranger community would particularly mind the Electric Wyvern being moved elsewhere. Every Ranger main I’ve spoken to hates it.

I fail to see how a mix would do any better unless you are relying on random PvE’rs to bring support builds out of the goodness of their hearts….

Windsagio.1340:

I’m stuck between being amazed at your classist prejudices and remembering that most rangers seem to still be in Point Blank Shot Meta.

Still, the problem isn’t rangers, it’s bad rangers.

I totally agree… my Ranger is a FREIGHT TRAIN of DPS…

Atrabelos.7584:

Windsagio.1340:

I’m stuck between being amazed at your classist prejudices and remembering that most rangers seem to still be in Point Blank Shot Meta.

Still, the problem isn’t rangers, it’s bad rangers.

Class-stacking in an event like this is bad, period, and thus it’s bad that Rangers are more invested in this event than anyone else. A surplus of Thieves or Elementalists or Warriors (well, maybe not Guardians) would be about as bad. The only classism here is in saying that Ranger is an undertuned profession – low DPS and low party support outside Druid does not make for a good class in tough events like these. The fact that bearbows still exist only hurts more.

Plus it’s not as if the Ranger community would particularly mind the Electric Wyvern being moved elsewhere. Every Ranger main I’ve spoken to hates it.

As a ranger main, I’d take offense if I wasn’t just tired of this ignorant position. Rangers as a class are not low Dps. They are not Low party support. Even the “bearbow” can have reason beyond a bad player — Blackbear+wilting strike is a very high uptime of weakness, Murrellow can provide a on-demand poison field for condi-specs or again, providing weakness via combos, and Brownbear can help nearby players that don’t have the sense for condi-cleanse. They are not my choice, but there is a reason (and place) to use every pet in the roster.

Ranger’s may be outclassed by some other professions in some forms of damage, but it is NOT to the degree that a ranger is a wasted slot in an event/situation; and in fact rangers DO excel at long range damage, which is very helpful in several events/PvE boss encounters. Condi ranger is very viable. Power ranger is also very viable (guess what? Longbow is our power ranged weapon by design, so get used to seeing it).

With the various pets, spirits and warhorn, Ranger is a great source of MANY boons to the group including (perhaps most notably) fury. Regen, protection, swiftness and moderate stacks of might are all very easily handed out, in addition to a flat precision buff just for breathing. Oh, and they can maintain 20+ stax of vuln on target by themselves. And the ranger —if he or she so chooses-- can provide all of this support in a single build, at the same time, using only core ranger Specs, WITH MARGINAL PERSONAL DPS LOSS.

Oberon Vex.1389:

Atrabelos.7584:

Windsagio.1340:

I’m stuck between being amazed at your classist prejudices and remembering that most rangers seem to still be in Point Blank Shot Meta.

Still, the problem isn’t rangers, it’s bad rangers.

Class-stacking in an event like this is bad, period, and thus it’s bad that Rangers are more invested in this event than anyone else. A surplus of Thieves or Elementalists or Warriors (well, maybe not Guardians) would be about as bad. The only classism here is in saying that Ranger is an undertuned profession – low DPS and low party support outside Druid does not make for a good class in tough events like these. The fact that bearbows still exist only hurts more.

Plus it’s not as if the Ranger community would particularly mind the Electric Wyvern being moved elsewhere. Every Ranger main I’ve spoken to hates it.

As a ranger main, I’d take offense if I wasn’t just tired of this ignorant position. Rangers as a class are not low Dps. They are not Low party support. Even the “bearbow” can have reason beyond a bad player — Blackbear+wilting strike is a very high uptime of weakness, Murrellow can provide a on-demand poison field for condi-specs or again, providing weakness via combos, and Brownbear can help nearby players that don’t have the sense for condi-cleanse. They are not my choice, but there is a reason (and place) to use every pet in the roster.

Ranger’s may be outclassed by some other professions in some forms of damage, but it is NOT to the degree that a ranger is a wasted slot in an event/situation; and in fact rangers DO excel at long range damage, which is very helpful in several events/PvE boss encounters. Condi ranger is very viable. Power ranger is also very viable (guess what? Longbow is our power ranged weapon by design, so get used to seeing it).

With the various pets, spirits and warhorn, Ranger is a great source of MANY boons to the group including (perhaps most notably) fury. Regen, protection, swiftness and moderate stacks of might are all very easily handed out, in addition to a flat precision buff just for breathing. Oh, and they can maintain 20+ stax of vuln on target by themselves. And the ranger —if he or she so chooses-- can provide all of this support in a single build, at the same time, using only core ranger Specs, WITH MARGINAL PERSONAL DPS LOSS.

Well, at the very least, your advice is fairly decent – for 5-man dungeons, when classes aren’t being stacked.

But that’s irrelevant, and I’m not as dismissive and ignorant of the class as you want me to be. One of the class in a 5-man can provide a good amount of party support with their unique buffs, and they can keep up enough DPS-wise by bolstering the party with their traits. But with class-stacking in play, Rangers can no longer contribute effectively with Spotter, Grace of the Land, or even spirits when 3 of the 10 people they’re around also have it. Other classes have this issue too, but not quite as badly.

Not only that, Ranger’s access to group might/fury is terrible compared to a good support Warrior/Guardian/Mesmer/Elementalist, is generally gated behind Call of the Wild, and requires you to run either axe or sword mainhand for permanent uptime with traits (the first gimps your damage entirely and the second roots you in melee without a dodge). And Ranger’s protection uptime is laughable compared to what a Guardian can get simply by spamming hammer AA and providing group-wide benefits with shouts, nevermind that they lack group stability/quickness/alacrity entirely.

Again: if you agree that Rangers don’t play nice with each other buff-wise (which is a total given in zerg content), everything else is window dressing. I’d still argue that Rangers aren’t high-DPS or high-support, but that doesn’t matter. All I’m proposing is either gating other profession skills/mechanics to be exclusively attained within the Dragon’s Domain so that everyone is more interested in the map and pugs end up more balanced composition-wise, or moving the Electric Wyvern elsewhere. If either of the above happens, class stacking goes down, Rangers can more effectively contribute to their group because they aren’t competing with everyone else interested in snagging a wyvern, and the window for success grows larger.

Why do you believe this is objectionable?

Maybe the pets should just be there. All the time, then rangers wouldnt stack there constantly. Now that i know though, ill be heading there to get mine >.>

I wouldn’t mind AT ALL if Electric Wyvern and Tiger were moved elsewhere, would make it SO much easier for me to get those. (I want my Tiger for Perma-Fury, pleeeeeease!)

But I have to say this:

Meanwhile, my Druid and her +25% Damage through Grace of the Land and Glyph of Empowerment says “Hi”.

But wether stacking Rangers is a bad thing or not is completely irrelevant. It’s not the Professions in a team that makes or breaks it, it’s Builds and Communication that does that. Do you really think most Warriors run with PS builds? Because from what I’ve seen so far they do Not. It’s DPS Warrior or Berserkers everywhere. Elementalist? Cantrip Solo or Roamer builds mostly, to survive the onslaught of the enemies about (Understandably so, because if they’re split from the group as Backline Zerkers they’re just about dead meat).

In optimal conditions you don’t want many rangers along (You want a few for Frost and Sun Spirit, as well as GoE/GotL if they’re Druids) but you don’t really want DPS Warriors, Celestial Eles or Burn/DPS Guardians either.

You want a, and excuse my french, metric kittenton of Boon Dispenser Guardians and Sinister Engis with the occasional PS Warr, Backline Ele, Chronomancer and Spirit Druid.

Atrabelos.7584:

Oberon Vex.1389:

Atrabelos.7584:

Windsagio.1340:

I’m stuck between being amazed at your classist prejudices and remembering that most rangers seem to still be in Point Blank Shot Meta.

Still, the problem isn’t rangers, it’s bad rangers.

Class-stacking in an event like this is bad, period, and thus it’s bad that Rangers are more invested in this event than anyone else. A surplus of Thieves or Elementalists or Warriors (well, maybe not Guardians) would be about as bad. The only classism here is in saying that Ranger is an undertuned profession – low DPS and low party support outside Druid does not make for a good class in tough events like these. The fact that bearbows still exist only hurts more.

Plus it’s not as if the Ranger community would particularly mind the Electric Wyvern being moved elsewhere. Every Ranger main I’ve spoken to hates it.

As a ranger main, I’d take offense if I wasn’t just tired of this ignorant position. Rangers as a class are not low Dps. They are not Low party support. Even the “bearbow” can have reason beyond a bad player — Blackbear+wilting strike is a very high uptime of weakness, Murrellow can provide a on-demand poison field for condi-specs or again, providing weakness via combos, and Brownbear can help nearby players that don’t have the sense for condi-cleanse. They are not my choice, but there is a reason (and place) to use every pet in the roster.

Ranger’s may be outclassed by some other professions in some forms of damage, but it is NOT to the degree that a ranger is a wasted slot in an event/situation; and in fact rangers DO excel at long range damage, which is very helpful in several events/PvE boss encounters. Condi ranger is very viable. Power ranger is also very viable (guess what? Longbow is our power ranged weapon by design, so get used to seeing it).

With the various pets, spirits and warhorn, Ranger is a great source of MANY boons to the group including (perhaps most notably) fury. Regen, protection, swiftness and moderate stacks of might are all very easily handed out, in addition to a flat precision buff just for breathing. Oh, and they can maintain 20+ stax of vuln on target by themselves. And the ranger —if he or she so chooses-- can provide all of this support in a single build, at the same time, using only core ranger Specs, WITH MARGINAL PERSONAL DPS LOSS.

Well, at the very least, your advice is fairly decent – for 5-man dungeons, when classes aren’t being stacked.

But that’s irrelevant, and I’m not as dismissive and ignorant of the class as you want me to be. One of the class in a 5-man can provide a good amount of party support with their unique buffs, and they can keep up enough DPS-wise by bolstering the party with their traits. But with class-stacking in play, Rangers can no longer contribute effectively with Spotter, Grace of the Land, or even spirits when 3 of the 10 people they’re around also have it. Other classes have this issue too, but not quite as badly.

Not only that, Ranger’s access to group might/fury is terrible compared to a good support Warrior/Guardian/Mesmer/Elementalist, is generally gated behind Call of the Wild, and requires you to run either axe or sword mainhand for permanent uptime with traits (the first gimps your damage entirely and the second roots you in melee without a dodge). And Ranger’s protection uptime is laughable compared to what a Guardian can get simply by spamming hammer AA and providing group-wide benefits with shouts, nevermind that they lack group stability/quickness/alacrity entirely.

Again: if you agree that Rangers don’t play nice with each other buff-wise (which is a total given in zerg content), everything else is window dressing. I’d still argue that Rangers aren’t high-DPS or high-support, but that doesn’t matter. All I’m proposing is either gating other profession skills/mechanics to be exclusively attained within the Dragon’s Domain so that everyone is more interested in the map and pugs end up more balanced composition-wise, or moving the Electric Wyvern elsewhere. If either of the above happens, class stacking goes down, Rangers can more effectively contribute to their group because they aren’t competing with everyone else interested in snagging a wyvern, and the window for success grows larger.

Why do you believe this is objectionable?

You assert that ALL players at these events are rangers? That isn’t true at all. If rangers in a 5 man party are a benefit while running party support, then clearly 20% rangers in a zerg could be of similar benefit, though this would be a little clunky depending on positioning. Also: not every ranger runs party support, so even if two rangers are next to each other, one or the other may not have slotted spotter, or be belting out boons, you can do one and not the other.

As for grace of the land? are you seriously gonna knock a free % damage buff? I’ll concede that while applying it the druid is not contributing to his personal dps, but giving 5 people a huge dps steroid massively makes up for this. And this ‘overlapping’ is only a concern if you are actually hitting 5 targets in every heal — only Lunar Impact is large enough to consistently allow this.

You claim to know rangers but apparently you don’t realize that they can provide 100 uptime of fury, regen, swiftness, might and (with blue moa and stone spirit) virtually 100% uptime of protection — while still providing 100% of his personal dps and not just sticking to auto attacks like a hammer guardian. Call of the Wild is a great boon giving skill, but it is NOT our only applicator of fury, there are two pets that grant perma fury to the surrounding area. Furthermore, you do not have to camp your support set — you could do the reasonable thing and use your support abilities and then switch back to your damage set quickly… And might? One ranger can permanently maintain 9 stax of might to the party, and burst it to 14 for 90% of the time.

I have to concede alacrity (after all only chronomancers have that, so I’m not even sure why you brought it up), stability and quickness, but surely you have to know that no one class can provide EVERYTHING at the highest level to the entire party. That isn’t the point, the point is that rangers DO provide more than an average amount of offensive party support. The other thing, again, is that not every player in the zerg a ranger.

I would enjoy being able to find the new pets in non-gated situations, but there is zero reason to lock other professions mechanics/skills behind events at this point. If they went with that as a design decision as a way to unlock things, that would be different, but at this stage this would be a terrible idea. Do you really think that locking the mechanic change for your e-spec behind this event would go over well? Mesmers can’t time split without completing this? Berzerkers can’t go berzerk??

What it really boils down to, is that you are upset that the group you were a part of failed an event. Whether your accusation of rangers is true or not (I think it is more likely due to people being unfamiliar with the mechanics/requirements of the fight because the xpac was released four days ago , but if you want to blame a specific community of the game go ahead) they have every right to participate in content when and where and HOW they wish. If they want to do the event on a ranger instead of a different class, that is their business, and it is unreasonable of you or anyone else to demand that they not play how they wish so that you can. Worst case scenario wait a few days for the mad rush of rangers getting their pets goes down. This ‘problem’ will sort itself out over time without Anet having to change anything.

What’s causing the most failures imo is people failing to deal with stalkers.

Atrabelos.7584:

nevermind that they lack group stability/quickness/alacrity entirely.

Nevermind that they lack group stability and quickness? How is that a problem if they are all rangers and thus easily can stack it one their own?

As for the rest of your nonsense, I’ll just +1 the guy above me. Rangers do very few sacrifices to their pve meta builds in order to keep up permanent fury, several stacks of might and high protection uptime, and as far as fury and protection go, they do it better than most other professions.

Even if it is an issue, it won’t last (though I am not against them moving the availability of the thing if it helps people). I think it’s safe to say that most of the event problems at the moment are a product of “most people have no clue what to do” and will sort themselves out as more people become comfortable with what is expected of them.

I saw it happen firsthand with Silverwastes. In the beginning, it was loads of fail left and right. I left for a while and came back a few months later, and it was super rare to see a fail. The trick is, you don’t need everybody to be great. You just need something like 20-25%. Right now, that number is probably something like 5% because even great players are still learning the content.

I don’t know about ranger stacking, but I really hate having the pets gated behind this event or gated around some high level mastery. Give me my tiger!