Guild Wars 2

Well basically when the humans took Ascalon, and then later lost it to the charr though the searing it was pretty bad and stuff…but now, judging but the amount of human players vs the amount of charr players, can’t we steamroll charr despite their technology? xD Even if you’re human is Ascalonian, who doesn’t want to kill some of ’em Charr? I mean, seriously?! Look at the chart below:

If the image it too small, the tallest bar is human and the shortest is charr.

These are the players statistics, not the real one.

Charrs outnumber Humans and are more advanced technologicaly than them. Many Asura think that Humans are living museum pieces to study before their extinction. Only one out of five kingdom remain for what they know. Human population decreased brutally. Also, while others races can sustain themselves, Humans have to buy food and things to the others.

And even if they manage to reclaim Ascalon… For what? Having to fight Ascalon’s Ghosts, Flame Legion, Branded, Ogres, Renegades, and the local fauna additionnaly to Centaurs and bandits?

Kulvar.1239:

These are the players statistics, not the real one.

Charrs outnumber Humans and are more advanced technologicaly than them. Many Asura think that Humans are living museum pieces to study before their extinction. Only one out of five kingdom remain for what they know. Human population decreased brutally. Also, while others races can sustain themselves, Humans have to buy food and things to the others.

And even if they manage to reclaim Ascalon… For what? Having to fight Ascalon’s Ghosts, Flame Legion, Branded, Ogres, Renegades, and the local fauna additionnaly to Centaurs and bandits?

We’ll see who has the last laugh when we re-establish contact with the Canthan Empire.

Mental Paradox.3845:

Kulvar.1239:

These are the players statistics, not the real one.

Charrs outnumber Humans and are more advanced technologicaly than them. Many Asura think that Humans are living museum pieces to study before their extinction. Only one out of five kingdom remain for what they know. Human population decreased brutally. Also, while others races can sustain themselves, Humans have to buy food and things to the others.

And even if they manage to reclaim Ascalon… For what? Having to fight Ascalon’s Ghosts, Flame Legion, Branded, Ogres, Renegades, and the local fauna additionnaly to Centaurs and bandits?

We’ll see who has the last laugh when we re-establish contact with the Canthan Empire.

Assuming the Canthans didn’t channel dark, forbidden magics too and destroy their own dynasty.

Mental Paradox.3845:

Kulvar.1239:

These are the players statistics, not the real one.

Charrs outnumber Humans and are more advanced technologicaly than them. Many Asura think that Humans are living museum pieces to study before their extinction. Only one out of five kingdom remain for what they know. Human population decreased brutally. Also, while others races can sustain themselves, Humans have to buy food and things to the others.

And even if they manage to reclaim Ascalon… For what? Having to fight Ascalon’s Ghosts, Flame Legion, Branded, Ogres, Renegades, and the local fauna additionnaly to Centaurs and bandits?

We’ll see who has the last laugh when we re-establish contact with the Canthan Empire.

You think the xenophobic canthans have any reason to help the Krytans, who are humans living on an entirely different continent? Even if the Krytans would cut ties to all non-humans (which they won’t) I think the Canthan emperor would sooner want to conquer Kryta than ally with Kryta.

The Charr would still (most in likely) win.

You have to remember that Ascalon is only the homeland of the Iron Legion. Even if the Humans somehow squeak out a victory and take the Black Citadel, the remaining Blood Legion and Ash Legion armies can still swoop down and retake it from the still weakened Human forces.

Not to mention, the Human army would have to go about invading the hard way, because Captain’s Council wouldn’t allow the use of their Asura Gates for such a matter. (Not that it would matter, since BC’s gate is rigged with explosives.) They would most likely have to go through Ebonhawke, and that would mean crossing the Brand to get to BC. Which isn’t much of a smart idea. Other option is crossing the Shiverpeaks, but again they would have to go through many different threats (hostile wildlife, Dredge, Jotun, the weather itself, Icebrood, etc.) to do so.

I guess there is a third option…. Invasion via hot air balloon!

Another thing to keep in mind is that the main reason the meat won last time was due to the help of their Gods.

But back then they didn’t have 200 thousand human heroes helping them. It’s been proven that one hero can trash an army all by him/herself.

Tom Gore.4035:

But back then they didn’t have 200 thousand human heroes helping them. It’s been proven that one hero can trash an army all by him/herself.

The GW1 heroes maybe, the GW2 heroes not so much. Pretty much everything the GW2 hero does, especially the big stuff, he or she does while being supported by all kinds of npcs. I mean one of the major complaints about the fight against Zhaitan is that not only are you pretty much just one member of Destiny’s Edge, but most of the fight against Zhaitan and his minions is done by non-player pact members.

Besides, for every 2 human heroes there is still 1 charr hero.

Diovid.9506:

Tom Gore.4035:

But back then they didn’t have 200 thousand human heroes helping them. It’s been proven that one hero can trash an army all by him/herself.

The GW1 heroes maybe, the GW2 heroes not so much. Pretty much everything the GW2 hero does, especially the big stuff, he or she does while being supported by all kinds of npcs. I mean one of the major complaints about the fight against Zhaitan is that not only are you pretty much just one member of Destiny’s Edge, but most of the fight against Zhaitan and his minions is done by non-player pact members.

Besides, for every 2 human heroes there is still 1 charr hero.

Yeah, but as we can attest in PvP, 2 human heroes on average can walk over 1 charr hero without much trouble

Zhaitan fight is a bad example because in almost all other places in the game it’s the hero (or heroes) doing all the stuff while the NPCs are taking dirt naps or cowering behind walls etc. Look at Silverwastes. The Pact isn’t even sending any troops to take the forts. They just chill and wait. And why shouldn’t they, as they have 200 immortal Pact Commanders on each map taking those forts for them.

Absurd, I know, but that’s what happens when you have a story with 200 thousand heroes.

Oh I’m totally for this suggestion!

Lets do this! Kiiiiilrooooooy Stoooooooonekiiin!

Kulvar.1239:

These are the players statistics, not the real one.

Charrs outnumber Humans and are more advanced technologicaly than them. Many Asura think that Humans are living museum pieces to study before their extinction. Only one out of five kingdom remain for what they know. Human population decreased brutally. Also, while others races can sustain themselves, Humans have to buy food and things to the others.

And even if they manage to reclaim Ascalon… For what? Having to fight Ascalon’s Ghosts, Flame Legion, Branded, Ogres, Renegades, and the local fauna additionnaly to Centaurs and bandits?

Just so you know, humans don’t have to buy food from anyone. Anet mentioned during development that they have the best agricultural technology of any of the races. Kryta is Tyrias breadbasket.

Well heh…I just posted this for the community’s thoughts so thanks for the input!

I’ve killed tens of thousands of Charr in my 8-years with the series, and I still enjoy killing the furry kittens! Just you Charr wait until our Gods return…we’re going to wipe you from the face of Tyria! Along with those salad-heads!

Tom Gore.4035:

Yeah, but as we can attest in PvP, 2 human heroes on average can walk over 1 charr hero without much trouble

Zhaitan fight is a bad example because in almost all other places in the game it’s the hero (or heroes) doing all the stuff while the NPCs are taking dirt naps or cowering behind walls etc. Look at Silverwastes. The Pact isn’t even sending any troops to take the forts. They just chill and wait. And why shouldn’t they, as they have 200 immortal Pact Commanders on each map taking those forts for them.

Absurd, I know, but that’s what happens when you have a story with 200 thousand heroes.

That’s because they prevent Charrs to come with their artillery. Charr’s cannons will blow any Human hero in one strike.

Copestetic.5174:

I’ve killed tens of thousands of Charr in my 8-years with the series, and I still enjoy killing the furry kittens! Just you Charr wait until our Gods return…we’re going to wipe you from the face of Tyria! Along with those salad-heads!

Your gods won’t return. We already killed them.

The humans would be wiped out, plain and simple.

1. They won the first time because of their Gods. The charr also weren’t AS organized as they are now.
2. The charr are already in a so far never ending war with ghosts whose numbers never dwindle, plus the flame legion, plus dragon minions. Highly militaristic, they are trained almost from birth to fight. Humans fight what again? Bandits? Circus people? Centaurs? Numbers than can actual decrease (thinking in actual terms, not gameplay).
3. Far more tech advance. Who’s supplying tanks and sub’s to the pact? Charr. Who’s building those airships? Charr and asura. Who has basically an RnD department? Charr (Iron legion).
4. Our spies are better. Remember, an ash warband snuck into the kings castle before the Foefire. They were that good back then, and training hasn’t slacked off.
5. Charr can pull your one hero, Logan, away from battle simply by letting it “slip” we plan to assassinate her, lowering moral. Humans are short on heroes (I don’t count players for either side), and don’t have as many leaders ready as the charr.
6. What you see now is only iron, you would then have to go for blood, ash, and flame lands. And humans don’t have the numbers to hold all that land.

Finally

7. We haz cheezey meat

Watchwork soldiers? Who knows what other things humans can build to help them in the war. The only reason why humans don’t have a great army is because they don’t need any.

The char need to not only fight: Flame Legion, Ogres and dredge, but also the unending foes of the Brand and the Foefire. They need to a military to survive.

The humans have superior technology for agriculture and housing, as that are their biggest needs.

wouw.5837:

Watchwork soldiers? Who knows what other things humans can build to help them in the war. The only reason why humans don’t have a great army is because they don’t need any.

Unless they reverse engineered Scarlet’s much more advanced Twisted Watchwork designs and built on them after her death and the soldiers’ reprograming, the humans’ more artisanal style of crafting would still be a huge handicap if they were to be used on the battlefield. Production just wouldn’t be high enough.

One day Ascalon will be taken back and the glorious kingdom that once thrived there will be rebuilt.

It is only a matter of time.

Harper.4173:

One day Ascalon will be taken back and the glorious kingdom that once thrived there will be rebuilt.

It is only a matter of time.

I think you’re absolutely right. I just don’t think it will be a human kingdom ;P

Pfft. Ascalon is nothing!
What about the once “vibrant, proud and prosperous nation”? With marble streets, the City of Gods.

I say we rebuild the true human Kingdom, before we start slaughtering those incapable defenseless kittens…

Titus.4285:

Pfft. Ascalon is nothing!
What about the once “vibrant, proud and prosperous nation”? With marble streets, the City of Gods.

I say we rebuild the true human Kingdom, before we start slaughtering those incapable defenseless kittens…

I agree completely. The queen could negotiate with the Pact for stewardship of Orr. It would make sense… it’s like the holy land of mankind after all. No war required for this, either. That’s certain to make some of you hippies happy! =D

I can get behind rebuilding on Orr first. No doubt there’s tons of long-lost goodies there that would help us set Charr on fire.

I think most people forget Charr were in Ascalon first, so really the humans are the evil kittens, and Charr are nice fluffy kittens.

Humans should go back to their first realm with the Gods since they’re the source of all of this drama in Tyria.

#CharrMasterRace

Copestetic.5174:

I can get behind rebuilding on Orr first. No doubt there’s tons of long-lost goodies there that would help us set Charr on fire.

Yeh I like this plotline. Humans take over orr and then use it to retake ascalon.

As usual, when this topic comes up, the charr are exaggerating their own power and contributions while downplaying those of other races. I’ll endeavour to correct some of the misrepresentations later, but for the moment…

Let’s assume, purely for the sake of argument, that humanity manages to gain the power to defeat the four united charr legions (because let’s face it, the charr determination to keep the Flame Legion out will probably not outlast a substantial military defeat. Remember, they deliberately waited until after the external enemy was defeated before kicking their revolution into high gear). Call this assistance from other human nations, Orrian artifacts, the return of the gods, or whatever.

Would we really want to?

What, apart from jingoistic pride and more land to defend, would we get of of it? If they’re genuine about turning the truce into a lasting peace, we’re in a better strategic position overall with them as allies rather than enemies. If not, I’d rather that they suffer the diplomatic repercussions of being seen by our allies as the aggressors. Let the charr issue their insults – frankly, I’d prefer a legacy of being willing to let bygones be bygones rather than one of letting a centuries-old defeat eat us up until enslaving ourselves to demons in exchange for power seemed like a good idea.

On some of the inaccuracies:

As Lurinna stated, Kryta probably has the highest agricultural yields of all the nations, keeping in mind that the charr rely primarily on livestock (an inefficient conversion of land to nutrients: historically, regions set aside for livestock was usually land that wasn’t suitable for other crops at the time for one reason or another). The sylvari could probably beat humans when it comes to making plants grow… but ambient conversations indicate that human farmers are already considering bringing in sylvari assistants for exactly that reason.

Second, on the Pact technology: Airships are explicitly a mix of charr, asura, and human technology: Trahearne describes them as such in one of the PS steps. The human contribution was a mystery at the time, but with Kryta’s usage of balloons and an NPC in S2E5 suggesting that some of the airships heading to the Silverwastes belong to Kryta, I suspect that it was humans that came up with the idea of using light or heated gas for lift, while asura and charr provided… well, the stuff that is obviously asura and charr. Charr built the submersible prototype, but it was perfected by the collaboration of the other races: I’m told that there’s an event where the same is said of the choppers, but I’ve never seen it myself. Tanks are purely Charr tech, though.

When it comes to infiltration: That goes both ways. Half the reason Ebonhawke still stands is that certain members of the Vanguard have become experts at sneaking in and sabotaging charr war machines. This is, incidentally, the subplot of one of the CoF paths – after the truce, one such saboteur sought out and befriended the inventor of all the war machines she’d been sabotaging.

And, incidentally, that’s possibly the biggest reason a resumption of hostilities is becoming increasingly unlikely to happen. Historically, charr and humans have regarded each other purely as implacable enemies to be fought. Now, apart from a few fanatics, they’re increasingly seeing each other as people. It’s going to be a lot harder to start a new war between them when the best soldiers and mages on both sides were drinking buddies in the Silverwastes.

Nevermind. Fun thread’s over now that the historian came in.

I like your analysis, Drax. As much as I would love to see Ascalon restored to former glory, perhaps we’re better off without the Charr as enemies.

Mental Paradox.3845:

I like your analysis, Drax. As much as I would love to see Ascalon restored to former glory, perhaps we’re better off without the Charr as enemies.

Lies!

Queen Jennah would be very upset that all her hard work on the treaty is being unraveled by this thread. :/

Nations rise and fall through out history.
I see a lot of comparisson about whom invented what, trying to measure your strenghs. Humans invented the gas propeled ballon, but do you even realize that thanks to the pact, every nation as that knowledge already?

And all humans behave as expected, trying to wage war out of wounded pride. The world prospers with all races united and yet humans here fail to see and to accept.
This arrogance, this refusal to move forward might aswell be your undoing.

The Charr wont be alone anymore. The other races hold no grudge against us, and we are not the ones thinking of violating the pact.

The Charr have socially and economically evolved way to fast for your understanding.
Every lore master is tied to the past and fails see the present.

So… you better stick your squishy noses in your land and accept you no longer represent neither supremacy nor a war threat. The only threat you represent with all this way of thinking, is your own standing within the pact.

Malganis.7468:

Queen Jennah would be very upset that all her hard work on the treaty is being unraveled by this thread. :/

Well she wouldn’t know about it, since this thread technically takes place in an dark alley in Ebonhawke. Shhh, here comes the Vanguard!

Regh.8649:

Nations rise and fall through out history.
I see a lot of comparisson about whom invented what, trying to measure your strenghs. Humans invented the gas propeled ballon, but do you even realize that thanks to the pact, every nation as that knowledge already?

If push comes to shove, the same is probably true of a lot of the charr tech. Kryta doesn’t have the industrial capacity the Black Citadel has, but human engineers in the Pact could likely have figured out a lot of the charr stuff by now and can reproduce it if necessary.

Not to the same scale, of course, but charr magic also isn’t on the same scale as human magic.

‘Course, the point in my previous post still stands: There’s more to lose than to gain from a resumption of hostilities, and this goes for either side. Whoever is (seen as) the aggressor will probably get ostracised by the other races and, ultimately, lose as a result. Instead of fighting over who gets a bigger slice of the pie, why not cooperate towards making a bigger pie?

Drax has a point in War being highly unlikely, but I’d also attribute that to the formation of the Pact.

Setting aside the fact that it’s actively working for a unified Tyria and as a multi-racial organization it helps individuals form bonds across archaic barriers, they -are- sitting on the best, biggest and most dangerous Tech in Tyria. Remember, the Pact killed Zhaitan, the Elder Dragon of death and darkness.
Doesn’t matter if it’s the Charr or the Humans who start it, Mommy Pact will look at them with a stern gaze and wave her weapons of mass destruction about, and they’ll just have to go to bed without dessert and think about what they’ve done.

I don’t think the Pact is in a position to swing a big stick in quite that matter… but simply cutting both nations (or, worse, just the one that is seen as being at fault…) would make for a pretty big disincentive to misbehaving. Plus, with or without overt action, the Order of Whispers would probably have something to say about jingoism on either side.

Copestetic.5174:

Mental Paradox.3845:

I like your analysis, Drax. As much as I would love to see Ascalon restored to former glory, perhaps we’re better off without the Charr as enemies.

Lies!

+1 we must reclaim our lost heritage and crush the Charr once and for all.

Kulvar.1239:

And even if they manage to reclaim Ascalon… For what? Having to fight Ascalon’s Ghosts, Flame Legion, Branded, Ogres, Renegades, and the local fauna additionnaly to Centaurs and bandits?

Actually I’m pretty sure the Renegades would be on their side if humans retook Ascalon, seeing as how they want to retake Ascalon for the humans. But otherwise yeah, Ascalon is a nest of crazy that’s not worth it.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Harper.4173:

One day Ascalon will be taken back and the glorious kingdom that once thrived there will be rebuilt.

It is only a matter of time.

I think you’re absolutely right. I just don’t think it will be a human kingdom ;P

So a Grawl Kingdom then? Well they do actually have the most legitimate claim.

L Step.8659:

I think most people forget Charr were in Ascalon first, so really the humans are the evil kittens, and Charr are nice fluffy kittens.

Actually the Charr took it from the Grawl before it was taken by the humans…

CureForLiving.5360:

Kulvar.1239:

And even if they manage to reclaim Ascalon… For what? Having to fight Ascalon’s Ghosts, Flame Legion, Branded, Ogres, Renegades, and the local fauna additionnaly to Centaurs and bandits?

Actually I’m pretty sure the Renegades would be on their side if humans retook Ascalon, seeing as how they want to retake Ascalon for the humans. .

You’re thinking Separatists. Renegades are the charr wanting to wipe the humans from existence.

Did any of you play through the Charr/Ebonvanguard campaign in EotN….

Aaron Ansari.1604:

CureForLiving.5360:

Kulvar.1239:

And even if they manage to reclaim Ascalon… For what? Having to fight Ascalon’s Ghosts, Flame Legion, Branded, Ogres, Renegades, and the local fauna additionnaly to Centaurs and bandits?

Actually I’m pretty sure the Renegades would be on their side if humans retook Ascalon, seeing as how they want to retake Ascalon for the humans. .

You’re thinking Separatists. Renegades are the charr wanting to wipe the humans from existence.

XD