Guild Wars 2

I’ll return when the map is dead and everyone else did everything, (but that means no good shops) as its too much going on for me to make proper jumps and my computer sucks.

while i agree with some aspects, the way you portray jumping puzzles is a bit rude, just saying.

personally I enjoy the jumping puzzles and such, but i wish it were optional, just as I wish the story stuff (people talking) were optional for people like me that have no investment into the story.

basically, everything should be optional! :P

Yeah seriously? Two steps into the new area and it’s jumping already. I hate those glitchy jump skills, and I hate how the button to make them go away is not on the other end of the skillbar. I’m getting REALLY sick of jumping. Yes, you’ve added a jump button since Guild Wars 1, now stop abusing it.

Jumping puzzles were an optional annoyance, but this is getting to be waaay too much. Find a new gimmick please.

Fay.2735:

GrahamB.8301:

If I wanted to play a jumping game, I’d play Mario not GW2…..

Well, Guild Wars 2 has always had jumping elements from the get-go and has added a lot of jumping things during living story updates so I think it’s safe to say that jumping IS a thing in Guild Wars 2.

Yeah and I’ve been saying that Guild Wars is not Mario from the get go too. I’m sorry, I thought I was playing an first rate mmorpg, not a third rate 3d platformer, but it’s looking more and more like the latter.

The quality of the jumping in this game is pretty much good for getting over lumps in terrain and that should be all it’s used for.

I have no problem with some of the Achievements requiring the Aspects, the problem is(as many have said) the NEED for the Aspects to complete the story-line and acquire map completion. I have both done on 1 of my characters but will probably not try the achievements because of them all requiring the jumping/aspects.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

It’s new “Living Story”, which is about fighting evil, not jumping around like Mario. Since when is platform jumping a part of high fantasy MMO’s?

What a bullkitten.
If you can’t do that why don’t you flame about that you have to press w,a,s,d to move? Isn’t that hard too?
AN could put us on a train that travels though everymap then. So you can press 1 and get everything you want.
Seriously can someone make a video and show how ""HARD"" it is to do the new personal story? It’s so hard to press 1 AND w??

lordkrall.7241:

Elden Arnaas.4870:

The point of the thread, is being forced to use jumping and aspects to progress in Living Story Season 2. It has gotten a little derailed by trolling.

And several other releases over the years have FORCED swift reactions or color-vision. Things that can’t really be trained up (in case of colorblindness).
Jumping on the other hand CAN be trained and made possible.

As I said in another thread, talk to me when you’re 60 and see how well you jump, especially using the aspects that are now timed at 15seconds, rather than # of usages as in the original Lab. Cliffs last year. I mean, I can do okay on JP if I have time to figure out where I need to be. Jumping puzzles are difficult for some of us. But I can fight like a mutha LOL

Have you guys actually tried and failed these jumps? They’re not hard really. Don’t close your mind to them without trying. If you can use class skills like rush and shadowstep then you can use aspects. I’m a moderately poor jumper and I’m getting through the living story without any problem at all. I’m guessing some buried treasure will be needing aspects but that’s fair enough.

Neox.3497:

Seriously can someone make a video and show how ""HARD"" it is to do the new personal story? It’s so hard to press 1 AND w??

Are you prepared to watch a 4 hour video? Because that’s how long it took me to do the personal story. I’m 50 years old. The jumping and other garbage required here is not easy.

Stooperdale.3560:

Have you guys actually tried and failed these jumps?

Yes, and I’ve pretty much had it up to my eyeballs with this map, but I want these recipes.

Are you have problems with the jumps required by the story or just the parts where there are achievements that require some jumping ability (fairly minimal compared to previous updates such as Adventure Box and the first year holiday jump races)?

Yeah, my initial reaction to Dry Top was annoyance at all of the jumping. Then came disappointment that in spite of being such a small zone, it can be a bit difficult to navigate.

Aguri.2896:

You know what else get’s tiresome? Having nothing to do but fight and kill. MMOs are meant to have more than just kill kill kill everything gameplay. I am glad they tried something different and I hope each LS release has a unique gameplay element like this and at least a little jumping required for gameplay. This is the best Living Story stuff yet… feels like a real game rather than grindfest.

I’m the exact opposite sort of gamer. Kind of a ‘meat and potatoes’ kind of guy: Kill stuff + collect stuff = My character looking awesome/becoming more powerful, and I’m as happy as a Skritt in a junkpile.

A lot of you are missing the point entirely.

It’s not about the difficulty for some of us. It’s about the forced mechanics of it all.

Some people like these platform mechanics by jumping and collecting coins. Okay, great. The rest of us don’t, and that’s why we voice our concerns. If Anet wants to cater to the former, then fine, but they will just exclude the rest of us who do not.

A better design, would be to offer alternative ways, to enjoy the content, but currently , this isn’t possible. It’s required for the story and the new zone, for the achievements and rewards.

For those who don’t like jumping and using secondary mechanic skills (aspects), they are screwed with this update.

lordkrall.7241:

It requires very few uses of those skills.

The Team of One, rides to the rescue again.

Personally I think jumping puzzles/content are one of the most interesting features of this game. I’m not even all that great at them or anything, but I enjoy the challenge and the creative design that has been put in to the majority of the areas that require jumping.

It is one of the few things that Anet really got right about this game.

I understand the frustration felt by people who have trouble with these areas for whatever reason, but you can’t expect them to completely abolish an interesting mechanic that adds new elements and is greatly enjoyed by many people who spend time playing this game.

Its not like mesmer portals are all that hard to come by, so no one has any excuse for missing out on game content.

I just get tired of people who take the attitude of “I can’t do this very well, so therefore it shouldn’t be in the game.”

I’ll give you lightning pull being buggy (it always has had chance of launching you over the target). But the rest of the mechanics are okay.

Regarding forced mechanics, I’m not sure I fully understand here. The bar for passage is fairly low for the required parts (e.g., the sun sprint part has a wall so you cannot overshoot if you don’t stop the sprint fast enough). GW2 has always been more of a skill/twitch based game (e.g., the dodge button being an important part of surviving fights). I’m not sure how this is a drastic shift from what GW2 has had for primary content for a while now.

I’m having problems just getting around the map, bumping into collision hulls where there’s no terrain or objects, falling through edges of terrain because the collision hull is set in too far, the jump skills run out after a few seconds, stuff like that.

I’m not even sure what story there is here right now. It’s certainly not engaging whatever is going on. The sky people fell, I’ve gathered that much.

I didn’t even attempt super adventure box or holiday puzzles since they were glitchy and needlessly difficult, especially for some casual holiday event.

You can’t get better if you don’t practice.

That being said I do find the loads of bamboo all over the place blocking you from getting to certain edges to be really annoying. A nuisance really but I got the jumping puzzle achievement and the goggles.

Nageth.5648:

I’ll give you lightning pull being buggy (it always has had chance of launching you over the target). But the rest of the mechanics are okay.

Regarding forced mechanics, I’m not sure I fully understand here. The bar for passage is fairly low for the required parts (e.g., the sun sprint part has a wall so you cannot overshoot if you don’t stop the sprint fast enough). GW2 has always been more of a skill/twitch based game (e.g., the dodge button being an important part of surviving fights). I’m not sure how this is a drastic shift from what GW2 has had for primary content for a while now.

Lets also not forget that the achievement list for Gates of Meguuma actually have little to do with the jumping aspects of the new map and more about the challenges spawning throughout.

Bottom line—whether you like jumping or not/lag or not/old or young.
The whole idea of a forced jumping puzzle forLS2 is a result of misguided design development. This is no longer an MMO in any sense of the word, just a fancy mario wantabee. So sad.

Don’t look at what they’re doing to EverQuest if you don’t like gameplay requiring player movement in 3 dimensions. There is obviously some market for such gameplay or you wouldn’t see developers implementing it.

Nageth.5648:

Don’t look at what they’re doing to EverQuest if you don’t like gameplay requiring player movement in 3 dimensions. There is obviously some market for such gameplay or you wouldn’t see developers implementing it.

Yep—the kiddie console generation.

I did manage to finally get to the middle part. Then I got to the second way point by falling to my death near it.(How are we supposed to know where we’re supposed to go?) I had planned to use a revive orb, but a couple of kind people rez’d me.(I’m pretty sure one of the was Noble Ting – thanks.) I’m very slowly getting around the map, but it certainly isn’t fun.
edit: Thanks especially to Fay for your very helpful tips, and to Julischka for your kind encouragement.

Some things make it unnecessarily difficult, though. The time limit on the crystals makes it harder, and the fact that you don’t have your weapon skills while you’re using Zephyrite Aspects. It wouldn’t be as bad if there weren’t creatures that you need to fight near some of the places where you need to use Aspects.
So some of us will be able to get around with a lot of time and effort. But I’d certainly rather be doing something fun. And it still isn’t fair to lock people into this. For some esoteric jumping achievement, sure. But not to progress in the Living Story.

If you wish to attack people I would suggest you write your attacks in a file or on a piece of paper and then pretend you submitted it. Attacking people for what they enjoy isn’t productive.

10 thumbs up to the OP.
Forced jumping puzzles are (might as well say kitten here).
as for the last line
“Guess the feedback from the completely dead Pavilion didn’t reach them in time…”
I am sure it did , but I don’t think they care.

I have managed to make some small progress, but it certainly hasn’t been enjoyable. Way too much time and effort devoted to something I have no aptitude for, and don’t enjoy anyway. The fights have been fun.(When I wasn’t balanced on the edge of a cliff.)
All in all, I still have to say I don’t think that the Aspects and related jumping should be necessary. I think they’d be great if they were optional, as some people seem to really enjoy it.(But not all of us.)

For the people who are having trouble getting past the mechanic check at the start of the zone I’d be willing to help you across with my mesmer if I’m on and not busy. The rest of the zone is really low on usage of the crystals (pretty much just the river next to the village uses it but that is pretty easy).

Really? It is just ONE area, but with TWO waypoints. Does anybody forces you to travel from one side of the map to the other every day? If you don’t like it – don’t do it. No?

I’ve read through all of this thread, and I’m still smh at “forced jumping puzzle.” It’s not complicated at all to get to the LS areas. I’m sorry that you can’t make such simple jumps, and I think you must have struggled greatly with all the other content the game had to offer up to now.

This post was made because the poster said he did not like the jumping aspect that is creeping into the main game.

Jumping we were lead to believe when the game was first released was something extra that players could do to to pass the time or help them fulfil their need for recognition amongst their peers.

The main part of the game was about the MMO part of the area and those who chose to, could ignore that.

The poster’s point that now the main MMO area has now changed into a jumping puzzle is quite a valid point and that this poster does not like to or cannot should not be seen as an opportunity for others to lambaste the poster because of his views

I happen to agree with the poster on the point about puzzle and jump creep within the game

Yes, for those of us who can’t jump there are a lot of things in this game that are more difficult than is fun for us. Be glad you don’t understand.

The requirement of vistas for zone completion should have been a tip off that some ability to move in 3 dimensional space accurately was likely going to be required for some aspects of the game.

For those not getting it or for those who aren’t really trying to see our viewpoint and wanting to label it as crying, I’ll make it simple.

Jumping puzzles like the spiral in Caledon are purely optional. The Festival of the Four Winds was purely optional. You didn’t and don’t have to do them. You can play the rest of game without doing them. You can run dungeons, farm, do fractals, S1 of personal story. You can play the rest of the game with no hindrance.

This on the other hand, is forced mechanics. If you don’t do this, then you don’t progress. It’s their way or the high way, which is poor decision making and poor game design. If players don’t like the content or a certain part of the game there should be an alternative other than ‘you don’t progress.’ There are no alternatives to get around it if the mechanics are indeed buggy, or if you have bad net or a bad computer or health problems.

Is the personal story optional? Yes. Can you play the game without doing it? Yes. (That’s if future content isn’t hinged on these types of mechanics and the blunt way of implementing them and if people don’t voice their dislike of certain mechanics then it will most likely be added and ruin the game of those that don’t like it.) But one of the key points is – what’s the point of having personal story if the way to complete it isn’t fun or buggy? People who like the jumping puzzles and aspects will do them because they like it. People who don’t should be offered a way to get around it. Do some side missions, collect items and turn them in for a jumping gun with X amount of charges.

Don’t shove it in our faces and say “Deal with it.” That’s not how you treat customers nor is it a way to make a great game. Edit If you played WoW and raged at buggy phasing, then you no leg to stand on when it comes to forced mechanics and how it’s something you’re ‘just going to have to deal with.’

Very well said, Spoofy. Thank you for contributing to our discussion.

I think where some of the confusion may be coming from here is that people do not consider the mechanic check at the start to be a jump puzzle but rather a tutorial on how to use crystals. Perhaps if we instead focused on how to make the tutorial have a lower skill check (e.g., watch NPCs use the crystals like how you can watch NPCs block and time strikes in the human starter zone).

Nageth.5648 : “The requirement of vistas for zone completion should have been a tip off that some ability to move in 3 dimensional space accurately was likely going to be required for some aspects of the game.”

These vista’s you speak of could be ignored if you did not wish to partake in jumping activities

The point of the poster was that the new area does not allow for any choice and starts of with an exercise in jumping.

I believe if read correctly the original poster was quite clear that he/she was not advocating a total removal of jumping puzzles just that the jumping should be kept separate from the main part of the game

dkspins.4670:

Omar Aschi Popp.7496:

I love jumping puzzles.

When I know I’m in one.
Because then I can stop if I get frustrated.

Also, seriously, kitten Zephyrites. Am I the only one utterly detached from EVERY character ever involved in LS since Last year? If Majory got kitten d by Ulgoth and torn to shreds by earth ele, you know what my FIRST thought would be?!

“… …Soooo, Ulgoth, are you still up for 21:30? Cause, you know… gotta kill you and kitten. But! But, if you need to like clean or something, like, you do that first”

Because kittening ULGOTH is a more memorable character for me.

And he’d be all like “Niighhh!!! Sure thing Human scum!”

Also Dkspins, that’s crazy, you playing Guildwars made me smirk, it really is diverse in here I +1’d. Also totally agree.

Thanks Omar Aschi Popp! Tell me, is Ulgoth up for 21:30 – Love that guy! Gonna go check him out in a few! And no, you are not the only one detached from the Biconics & Zephyrites (but I do like Taimi – she may not look like much but she’s smarter than we think)

Her dialogue is kinda cute.

You seemed to be claiming that jumping was a new thing for Guild Wars 2. I was pointing out that Guild Wars 2 has had a heavy focus on jumping for a long time now. Another example is from the Flame and Frost enemies where you had to precisely time your jumps or you get damaged (sometimes severely).

The game’s focus on precise character movement is hardly new. We should instead be focusing on the problems with a specific implementation and not the overall theme of the game while pretending the game has fundamentally shifted in design (it hasn’t).

I am sorry that you cannot do more precise movements. I know someone who cannot either and would like to play this game with me but cannot. He doesn’t blame the game developer for making a game that requires precise movement, though.

Thanks for the input. Fay posted a very useful tutorial on how to use the Zephyrite Aspects in another thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/s2/Why-is-LS-S2-only-for-people-who-can-jump/4163987

I found this quite helpful.(though I still don’t enjoy all the jumping, I am making some progress.)

You latest response has totally missed the point of the original post nageth

Thanks for the input guys. Please don’t let this get personal. I think we can all appreciate Nageth’s point that jumping and a 3rd dimension are part of GW2. But we can also see Spoofy’s point (and mine) that jumping has not been(and IMO shouldn’t be) required for progression in a mainstream part of the game like Living Story. Until now.

I dont know why they just give you the choice of a hard fight or a jump puzzle.

It doesnt even have to be that. It could be gold or karma for a jump puzzle etc.

the point of the post was that the poster could play all the way through to level 80 without having to partake in jumping activities

that this poster cannot do this within the “New Area” is the point of the post and does show a significant shift or change within the basic game

that was the point of the original post

And my point is that your metric is flawed as far as what you’re classifying as option and what is mandatory. For instance, you can still level to 80. And you could not complete the Flame and Frost story if you couldn’t jump accurately (the story instance would not be passable if your entire group died to the bosses that required significant amounts of jumping).

My point is, I understand your point that you would like to participate without having to jump. I’m not taking issue with that point. I’m taking issue with the point where you seem to say that the jumping skill requirement is somehow new. It is not.

I loved the level design.

But as always, it lacks any kind of challenge.

I don’t think they’re talking about regular jumping Nageth. What they’re talking about is the Aspect/jumping that’s REQUIRED in Dry Top. There is a big difference between jumping out of the way(or even dodging) of an attack and having your skillbar replaced by 3 crappy jumping skills that only last for 15 seconds. If you miss a regular jump or dodge not really a big deal w/ full health ussually. If you miss a jump with the aspects it’s most likely a fall to your death or having to port because the skill timed out.

dkspins.4670:

For myself, I feel no emotional investment towards the Biconics (aka Destiny’s Edge v 2.0) and even less towards the Zephyrites.

I completely agree with you on this. Also, biconics are such drama queens. Wish they added “skip” to all their dialog …

I may have missed it skimming over the thread, apologies if I have, but…

If the jumping stuff at the beginning gives you problems, you’re not going to like what comes next.

There’s a boss fight that becomes a LOT easier with the uses of skills 1 and 3 in the fighting area. Skill 2 (Sun Dash) is REQUIRED at some points. They wanted to use the aspects in a boss fight, the earlier use of them was just a refresher course so everyone would be ready for that fight.

You can get into the new area without doing that boss fight, but you’ll get stuck at that point in the story.

Too early to tell for me. Amidst server crashes, I was enjoying the diversion of the navigation. If Anet leaves it at this area as a unique entity, I think I can put up with it. If it makes up the rest of the as yet undiscovered new region, it will get annoying quickly.

Re: loot – yes, drop rate is still about “meh minus 5%”. Trash mobs are relatively easy, though; so all it really means is the area is a drain-time versus a pastime.

Not done the storyline yet, since I wanted to check out the open world. In general, though; I do find Taimi to be my favorite character from LS1 – the rest I neither relate to nor am intrigued by – Rox is almost there.

Nageth.5648:

And my point is that your metric is flawed as far as what you’re classifying as option and what is mandatory. For instance, you can still level to 80. And you could not complete the Flame and Frost story if you couldn’t jump accurately (the story instance would not be passable if your entire group died to the bosses that required significant amounts of jumping).

My point is, I understand your point that you would like to participate without having to jump. I’m not taking issue with that point. I’m taking issue with the point where you seem to say that the jumping skill requirement is somehow new. It is not.

Where exactly was jumping skill with aspects included in the Flame and Frost story last year? I may have forgotten that part, altho I did finish all of it to get the title “Avenger of the Dispossessed”.

Okay, there seems to be some confusion as for as what “jumping” is. Here is the first post:

I have always had a problem with jumping in games,(I can’t jump) and and find it extremely unfair that so much GW2 content is tied to jumping.
Now I find out that the Living Story Season 2 is going to force me to have to use all the Zephyrite jumping skills?!? That is just horribly unfair.

“[I] find it extremely unfair that so much GW2 content is tied to jumping” implies that all jumping is the problem and not just skills that propel the character forward.

If skills that propel the character are the issue, they’ve been pretty heavily featured in quite a few character skill-sets from the start.

I really do not understand how you can make the argument that jumping or skills that move the character vertically are new. They aren’t. That argument was made by the post:

If I wanted to play a jumping game, I’d play Mario not GW2…..

That is the point I am referring to when I’m expressing confusion.

i love the new aspect skills, they make map exploration so much more fun and efficient