Guild Wars 2

Almost every single team in all Anet’s tourneys run a shatter mesmer. The best duelist class shoundt have so much mobility (portal,blink). The imune spam via evades was nerfed on thief. Now is time to nerf the imune spam via shatter F4/sword 2.

People claimed a nerf for hambows because everyone was running 1. Why dont we see the same with mesmer? They are present in the great majority of top teams. Be easy or hard to play shouldnt be taken in account for balance, they need to balance around how the top players perform with the class.

Suggestions: increase the base damage on F1 but reduce the way it scale with power. Increase base dmg but shatter cant crit. Change F4 from imune to -50% dmg, or only imune to direct dmg (like endure pain). Put a cast time on staff #2 (only insta cast weapon teleport in game? ).

The current mesmer meta has an immune every 46 seconds with the double bounce being taken now. Very few of the top mesmers run sword, but run staff for the ability to kite.

These meta builds literally have zero condi clear, and can be killed by one condi burst. The changes you suggest would destroy mesmer, as immune is one of the few defenses we have from burst, as we are usually a priority target. Also, mesmer is not considered viable on its own, but only with a thief. So that means that taking a mesmer reduces the flexibility of a team.

You may see lots of mesmers in EU, but in NA they are not in the majority at all due to the sustain specs that are preferred. If anything, fire and air sigils need to be nerfed, but please leave shatter alone.

Also, how hard is it to see clones running at you?

PhDusk.2590:

The current mesmer meta has an immune every 46 seconds with the double bounce being taken now. Very few of the top mesmers run sword, but run staff for the ability to kite.

These meta builds literally have zero condi clear, and can be killed by one condi burst. The changes you suggest would destroy mesmer, as immune is one of the few defenses we have from burst, as we are usually a priority target. Also, mesmer is not considered viable on its own, but only with a thief. So that means that taking a mesmer reduces the flexibility of a team.

You may see lots of mesmers in EU, but in NA they are not in the majority at all due to the sustain specs that are preferred. If anything, fire and air sigils need to be nerfed, but please leave shatter alone.

Also, how hard is it to see clones running at you?

Use the excuse that someone can dodge is not a valid argument for class balance. Lets say they create a skill that does 50k dmg with 1s cast time. One can say that it is not broken because you could doge. By this logic anything that is not insta cast is balance and the game was perfect 2 years ago.

They dont need more than 1 or 2 imunes because the dmg they do is so insane will burst most classes in just a few seconds before taking any condi. They may not be good to fight in a point but put them in open field to see how they kite and destroy anything other than a thief or anothermesmer.

If a class runs 0 condi clear, almost no defensive traits, zerker+runes of the traveller and is still top meta op it obviously need a rework in the mechanics. No wonders every single mesmer run the same copy paste build that had suffered very few changes in 2 years.

Mesmer takes skill to be played efficiently. Please, do not nerf mesmers.

This is a new one

Be hard or easy to play also is not a good argument. The balance should be done based on how the best players perform with the class not how the normal or bad player perform. No class should be broken and king of 1v1 just because it is “harder” to play.

Shatter mesmer’s burst (and to some extent, portal) is literally the only niche that mesmer can fulfill, which can’t already be done with less risk on other classes. Mesmers won’t see any play in tournaments, if the shatter damage is nerfed in any way, shape or form.

I’ve waited so long for this thread… getting 2012 deja vu…

xDudisx.5914:

Be hard or easy to play also is not a good argument. The balance should be done based on how the best players perform with the class not how the normal or bad player perform. No class should be broken and king of 1v1 just because it is “harder” to play.

King of 1v1s?
Dude, a shatter mesmer should not really be 1v1ing. Also, with that logic then every class should be nerfed because there is at least one person for each class who is incredible at what they do. Sounds like you need to roll a mesmer and learn how to play it so you can better understand how to counter it. Or you could just roll a thief and gg.

Joke thread is joke.

Shatter is one of the best balanced specs in the game, a very high skill cap to reach with high reward when players can do it. If anything all the other class specs in the game should be using this as a template, high risk/high reward and rewards both class knowledge and player ability.

The synergy between gs autoattack and air/fore sigil is broken, but in general i would always change sigils first before changing class mechanics.

xDudisx.5914:

Almost every single team in all Anet’s tourneys run a shatter mesmer. The best duelist class shoundt have so much mobility (portal,blink). The imune spam via evades was nerfed on thief. Now is time to nerf the imune spam via shatter F4/sword 2.

People claimed a nerf for hambows because everyone was running 1. Why dont we see the same with mesmer? They are present in the great majority of top teams. Be easy or hard to play shouldnt be taken in account for balance, they need to balance around how the top players perform with the class.

Suggestions: increase the base damage on F1 but reduce the way it scale with power. Increase base dmg but shatter cant crit. Change F4 from imune to -50% dmg, or only imune to direct dmg (like endure pain). Put a cast time on staff #2 (only insta cast weapon teleport in game? ).

lol, Guardin is at 100% teams at NA and EU, while mesmer may be 70% EU and 20% NA. So Guardian 2 TIMES MORE PICKABLE → 2 times more OP, NERF ZIS FAZT!!!! Yes?

Guts.4967:

I think the only thing to change on the build is the velocity of auto attack maybe on greatsword wich allow a high frequency of air/fire sigil proc.

This

Air +fire sigils + gs autoattack interrupt

Fire+Air is fine, even when zerkers run that sigil combo its still easier and safer to run bunker comps. Most of the time its bunkers wars 2 anything making power specs even weaker is stupid. Shatter mesmer cannot kill most meta build solo. They have like no condition removal.

I guess gs autoattack could use a little shave on the aftercast + removal of the sheat weapons exploit.
This way the aa will still be faster than its current form but it will be slightly slower than the aa-sheat weapons-aa chain.

It could use a few tweaks, but mostly fine. Here are some areas that you could adjust:
- Air + Fire sigil allows for large bursts of damage (applies to many builds)
- Energy sigil allows extra clones and more survival (applies to many builds)
- Halting Strike (deal damage when you interrupt) really adds up and can crit pretty hard.
- Mirror Blade (GS #2) is unblockable for seemingly no reason.
- Spatial Surge (GS #1) sheath bug where it can deal all its damage up front (as explained to me – might be wrong on this)

Lol, shatter mesmer takes the most skill to play effectively, we have 0 condi removal. Anything can kill us now days……. If they nerf what you’re asking, then mesmer will become useless. Classes that need to be tone down atm: Engi, Ele, and passive fear procs on necro. Reaper’s Protection is such a joke. Play a mesmer and learn what mesmers do, you’ll see how under-power the mesmer class is compare to the rest.

don’t accept seriously OP, he is novice at game and confused by clones. Give him few times and he will understand how kill mesmer in 2 shoots

Shattering, as a mechanic, is like Adrenaline skills on warrior, but weaker and a longer cool down. However, we have multiple shatters to cover us in different scenarios instead of a single powerful shatter, each punishing or countering as per the situation, so shattering alone does not help unless the person is paying attention to the when and what.
That’s the skill argument right there.

There’s also two other things to talk about: Resource and Avoidance.

As a mesmer, the resource you are provided with is illusions. Your illusions could give you various benefits while alive, like confusing the enemy or applying conditions or, in the case of phantasms, direct damage. When shattering, you sacrifice this security in a risk-gain scenario gambling your stable damage and protection for a chance to kill, counter-burst, halt, or survive. A mesmer is usually most vulnerable after a shatter because they have no illusions up to protect them, making them like a ranger without a pet[slightly stronger, but you get it, right?]. A good mesmer might be able to cover his tracks and maybe even run through more skills and dodges to get the illusion count back up, but that just shows how much they rely on illusions.

Avoidance… this is not wholly dodging. You can dodge Burst skills, you can dodge stealth skills, you can dodge pet skills. You can also dodge shatters. But, of course, sometimes a skilled mesmer will position his clones perfectly to shatter on you. However, the hole in this argument is two points: Firstly, you can kill illusions. If a mesmer places his clones all around you, it will take two or less hits to kill the clone prematurely. Phantasms are harder, yes, but the mesmer is sacrificing more when he shatters a phantasm so that’s to be expected. No other profession resource in this game, I believe, can be targeted and undone by the enemy. It would be like attacking initiative on a thief, or adrenaline on a warrior. Well, there’s the ranger’s pet, but that still follows the same principle. So if illusions are to close to avoid the shatter, you better kill them instead thinking them as non-existence barely-damaging AIs, as some do. Anything below 3 illusions isn’t that good for a mesmer unless they have IP, in which case they will be close enough for you to hit on your own.
Now, what if illusions are further away and you can’t kill them except with ranged? Well, firstly, use ranged to kill them if not otherwise preoccupied. Secondly, this means that when they run towards you, the tell will be much more obvious and you should do what you can to avoid them then. Blocks, dodge, invuln, etc. You can even kill them as they come. AoE devastates shatter builds as well.

Simply put, because shatter uses illusions, the big weakness are the illusions themselves, which is why it is fine.

shimmerlessEU.6841:

I’ve waited so long for this thread… getting 2012 deja vu…

They still basically run the same 20-20-0-0-30 build since almost 2 years ago. The topic is very relevant.

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

Almost every single team in all Anet’s tourneys run a shatter mesmer. The best duelist class shoundt have so much mobility (portal,blink). The imune spam via evades was nerfed on thief. Now is time to nerf the imune spam via shatter F4/sword 2.

People claimed a nerf for hambows because everyone was running 1. Why dont we see the same with mesmer? They are present in the great majority of top teams. Be easy or hard to play shouldnt be taken in account for balance, they need to balance around how the top players perform with the class.

Suggestions: increase the base damage on F1 but reduce the way it scale with power. Increase base dmg but shatter cant crit. Change F4 from imune to -50% dmg, or only imune to direct dmg (like endure pain). Put a cast time on staff #2 (only insta cast weapon teleport in game? ).

lol, Guardin is at 100% teams at NA and EU, while mesmer may be 70% EU and 20% NA. So Guardian 2 TIMES MORE PICKABLE -> 2 times more OP, NERF ZIS FAZT!!!! Yes?

The guardian wont kill anyway by himself. He is just support this is ok.

Anton.1769:

don’t accept seriously OP, he is novice at game and confused by clones. Give him few times and he will understand how kill mesmer in 2 shoots

I have +than 3k hours in the game played all classes in spvp. If the shatter mesmer class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in almost every single successful team with the exactly same build.

Dondagora.9645:

Shattering, as a mechanic, is like Adrenaline skills on warrior, but weaker and a longer cool down. However, we have multiple shatters to cover us in different scenarios instead of a single powerful shatter, each punishing or countering as per the situation, so shattering alone does not help unless the person is paying attention to the when and what.
That’s the skill argument right there.

There’s also two other things to talk about: Resource and Avoidance.

As a mesmer, the resource you are provided with is illusions. Your illusions could give you various benefits while alive, like confusing the enemy or applying conditions or, in the case of phantasms, direct damage. When shattering, you sacrifice this security in a risk-gain scenario gambling your stable damage and protection for a chance to kill, counter-burst, halt, or survive. A mesmer is usually most vulnerable after a shatter because they have no illusions up to protect them, making them like a ranger without a pet[slightly stronger, but you get it, right?]. A good mesmer might be able to cover his tracks and maybe even run through more skills and dodges to get the illusion count back up, but that just shows how much they rely on illusions.

Avoidance… this is not wholly dodging. You can dodge Burst skills, you can dodge stealth skills, you can dodge pet skills. You can also dodge shatters. But, of course, sometimes a skilled mesmer will position his clones perfectly to shatter on you. However, the hole in this argument is two points: Firstly, you can kill illusions. If a mesmer places his clones all around you, it will take two or less hits to kill the clone prematurely. Phantasms are harder, yes, but the mesmer is sacrificing more when he shatters a phantasm so that’s to be expected. No other profession resource in this game, I believe, can be targeted and undone by the enemy. It would be like attacking initiative on a thief, or adrenaline on a warrior. Well, there’s the ranger’s pet, but that still follows the same principle. So if illusions are to close to avoid the shatter, you better kill them instead thinking them as non-existence barely-damaging AIs, as some do. Anything below 3 illusions isn’t that good for a mesmer unless they have IP, in which case they will be close enough for you to hit on your own.
Now, what if illusions are further away and you can’t kill them except with ranged? Well, firstly, use ranged to kill them if not otherwise preoccupied. Secondly, this means that when they run towards you, the tell will be much more obvious and you should do what you can to avoid them then. Blocks, dodge, invuln, etc. You can even kill them as they come. AoE devastates shatter builds as well.

Simply put, because shatter uses illusions, the big weakness are the illusions themselves, which is why it is fine.

The main problem is that ilusionary persona gives you 1s imune without having any ilusion. If this trait was not so much more powerfull than almost everything else we would see all mesmers puting 30 points in a traitline mainly because of it.

PhDusk.2590:

xDudisx.5914:

Be hard or easy to play also is not a good argument. The balance should be done based on how the best players perform with the class not how the normal or bad player perform. No class should be broken and king of 1v1 just because it is “harder” to play.

King of 1v1s?
Dude, a shatter mesmer should not really be 1v1ing. Also, with that logic then every class should be nerfed because there is at least one person for each class who is incredible at what they do. Sounds like you need to roll a mesmer and learn how to play it so you can better understand how to counter it. Or you could just roll a thief and gg.

Put them the meta to fight a duel in legacy of foefire’s graveyard and dont obligate the players to sit on the point. You will see how the mesmer will kite most meta builds forever.
-A hambow wont land a single hammer hit, he can avoid most of the bow skills too just by walking.
-A bunker guard will do no dmg. Might take long to die but will not get even close to down the mesmer to 50% hp.
-Celestial staff or d/d ele. If using staff wont land any of the hard hit skills. With d/d the chances are still in favor of the mesmer.
-Engi: from far away your grenades are not a threat.
-Ranger: spirit ranger will be obliterated

This is one of the reasons we would never have duel option outside of spvp. Devs don’t want people to realise that mesmer and thief are like god mode duel classes if you dont force people to sit in a point.

PhDusk.2590:

xDudisx.5914:

Be hard or easy to play also is not a good argument. The balance should be done based on how the best players perform with the class not how the normal or bad player perform. No class should be broken and king of 1v1 just because it is “harder” to play.

King of 1v1s?
Dude, a shatter mesmer should not really be 1v1ing. Also, with that logic then every class should be nerfed because there is at least one person for each class who is incredible at what they do. Sounds like you need to roll a mesmer and learn how to play it so you can better understand how to counter it. Or you could just roll a thief and gg.

I have a mesmer btw. If you get a good mesmer vs a good anything else other than other mesmer thief. The chances are that the mesmer will win. The build can be 100% offensive running no condi clear and still have great suitability due to imune spam, reflect on F4, cc (staff 5) and insane mobility (insta cast staff #2).

Say something is balance just because is harder to play is not a valid argument. Imagine we make a race, one person walking and the other on a car. I can say that drive a car require more skill than walk so by that logic the race between the person and the car would be fine and balanced.

A shatter mesmer is just a harder to play much more powerfull version of the LB/GS ranger that poeple QQ so much about. If people were used to see 25% of the numbers of zerk rangers playing well with a meta mesmer people would realize how game breaking this build is.

xDudisx.5914:

I have +than 3k hours in the game played all classes in spvp. If the shatter mesmer class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in almost every single successful team with the exactly same build.

You contradict yourself. Some EU and almost 0 NA successful teams use mesmers. BUT ALL of them use guardins!!!! It’s means you will lose 10/10 games without guards!

If the guardian class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in EVERY single successful team with the exactly same build Are you agree?

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

I have +than 3k hours in the game played all classes in spvp. If the shatter mesmer class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in almost every single successful team with the exactly same build.

You contradict yourself. Some EU and almost 0 NA successful teams use mesmers. BUT ALL of them use guardins!!!! It’s means you will lose 10/10 games without guards!

If the guardian class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in EVERY single successful team with the exactly same build Are you agree?

I think they should buff other support classes too, to create other valid options, but the guardian is not running around the entire map destroying people in a few seconds, the mesmers and thieves are. Also thief is a real risk reward class because most of their dmg come from melee range and they have less hp than mesmer. When was the last time you got killed by a guard? Try to put a mesmer to duel a guard. The max the guard will achieve is to take long to die and do no dmg.

it is true tho, mesmer can kit insanely well against classes other then thief and mesmer..

but the game is involved around points, and condition eat them fairly quick.

xDudisx.5914:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

I have +than 3k hours in the game played all classes in spvp. If the shatter mesmer class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in almost every single successful team with the exactly same build.

You contradict yourself. Some EU and almost 0 NA successful teams use mesmers. BUT ALL of them use guardins!!!! It’s means you will lose 10/10 games without guards!

If the guardian class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in EVERY single successful team with the exactly same build Are you agree?

I think they should buff other support classes too, to create other valid options, but the guardian is not running around the entire map destroying people in a few seconds, the mesmers and thieves are. Also thief is a real risk reward class because most of their dmg come from melee range and they have less hp than mesmer. When was the last time you got killed by a guard? Try to put a mesmer to duel a guard. The max the guard will achieve is to take long to die and do no dmg.

But I still don’t understand: if mesmer so OP and sure → guardian WHY we don’t see them at 100% of teams like guardins? May be that top teams just bunch of noobs and don’t see OPness of mesmer? Especially these dat NA teams. Need tell them how they are wrong

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

I have +than 3k hours in the game played all classes in spvp. If the shatter mesmer class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in almost every single successful team with the exactly same build.

You contradict yourself. Some EU and almost 0 NA successful teams use mesmers. BUT ALL of them use guardins!!!! It’s means you will lose 10/10 games without guards!

If the guardian class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in EVERY single successful team with the exactly same build Are you agree?

I think they should buff other support classes too, to create other valid options, but the guardian is not running around the entire map destroying people in a few seconds, the mesmers and thieves are. Also thief is a real risk reward class because most of their dmg come from melee range and they have less hp than mesmer. When was the last time you got killed by a guard? Try to put a mesmer to duel a guard. The max the guard will achieve is to take long to die and do no dmg.

But I still don’t understand: if mesmer so OP and sure -> guardian WHY we don’t see them at 100% of teams like guardins? May be that top teams just bunch of noobs and don’t see OPness of mesmer? Especially these dat NA teams. Need tell them how they are wrong

actually, guardian is not 100% anymore, atleast on NA.
and there are a lot of mesmers as well as guardians on EU.

Simon.3794:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

I have +than 3k hours in the game played all classes in spvp. If the shatter mesmer class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in almost every single successful team with the exactly same build.

You contradict yourself. Some EU and almost 0 NA successful teams use mesmers. BUT ALL of them use guardins!!!! It’s means you will lose 10/10 games without guards!

If the guardian class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in EVERY single successful team with the exactly same build Are you agree?

I think they should buff other support classes too, to create other valid options, but the guardian is not running around the entire map destroying people in a few seconds, the mesmers and thieves are. Also thief is a real risk reward class because most of their dmg come from melee range and they have less hp than mesmer. When was the last time you got killed by a guard? Try to put a mesmer to duel a guard. The max the guard will achieve is to take long to die and do no dmg.

But I still don’t understand: if mesmer so OP and sure -> guardian WHY we don’t see them at 100% of teams like guardins? May be that top teams just bunch of noobs and don’t see OPness of mesmer? Especially these dat NA teams. Need tell them how they are wrong

actually, guardian is not 100% anymore, atleast on NA.
and there are a lot of mesmers as well as guardians on EU.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2c56ep/tournament_pvp_win_rates/

I dont know what are you trying to prove. That bunker guard is sacrificing all his dmg and mobility to be able to hold a points. Not like the mesmer that has super mobility and insane dmg, and dont need defense because there is no real counter to imune. Mesmer in spvp is like people running zerker in dungeons. Stuff dies so fast you dont need anything other than imune+dodges.

Even if guard was op it doesnt imply shatter mesmers are not, as it is possible to have + than 1 broken build in the game lol. In my opinion NA comps are moving in the direction the game should go. less zerkers and + long group fights.

Wow dude, can you stop posting your whining in every single thread, you got killed by some mesmers, tough life, learn to dodge or get some of your beloved bunkerlifestyle.

Anton.1769:

Simon.3794:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

I have +than 3k hours in the game played all classes in spvp. If the shatter mesmer class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in almost every single successful team with the exactly same build.

You contradict yourself. Some EU and almost 0 NA successful teams use mesmers. BUT ALL of them use guardins!!!! It’s means you will lose 10/10 games without guards!

If the guardian class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in EVERY single successful team with the exactly same build Are you agree?

I think they should buff other support classes too, to create other valid options, but the guardian is not running around the entire map destroying people in a few seconds, the mesmers and thieves are. Also thief is a real risk reward class because most of their dmg come from melee range and they have less hp than mesmer. When was the last time you got killed by a guard? Try to put a mesmer to duel a guard. The max the guard will achieve is to take long to die and do no dmg.

But I still don’t understand: if mesmer so OP and sure -> guardian WHY we don’t see them at 100% of teams like guardins? May be that top teams just bunch of noobs and don’t see OPness of mesmer? Especially these dat NA teams. Need tell them how they are wrong

actually, guardian is not 100% anymore, atleast on NA.
and there are a lot of mesmers as well as guardians on EU.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2c56ep/tournament_pvp_win_rates/

Seems like you don’t know how this was made before ToG and that NA winner had no guardian.

Simon.3794:

Anton.1769:

Simon.3794:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

I have +than 3k hours in the game played all classes in spvp. If the shatter mesmer class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in almost every single successful team with the exactly same build.

You contradict yourself. Some EU and almost 0 NA successful teams use mesmers. BUT ALL of them use guardins!!!! It’s means you will lose 10/10 games without guards!

If the guardian class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in EVERY single successful team with the exactly same build Are you agree?

I think they should buff other support classes too, to create other valid options, but the guardian is not running around the entire map destroying people in a few seconds, the mesmers and thieves are. Also thief is a real risk reward class because most of their dmg come from melee range and they have less hp than mesmer. When was the last time you got killed by a guard? Try to put a mesmer to duel a guard. The max the guard will achieve is to take long to die and do no dmg.

But I still don’t understand: if mesmer so OP and sure -> guardian WHY we don’t see them at 100% of teams like guardins? May be that top teams just bunch of noobs and don’t see OPness of mesmer? Especially these dat NA teams. Need tell them how they are wrong

actually, guardian is not 100% anymore, atleast on NA.
and there are a lot of mesmers as well as guardians on EU.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2c56ep/tournament_pvp_win_rates/

does it look like 100% to you?

yes, 95.29% presence of guardins at team views us Guardin is a base of team.

and there are a lot of mesmers as well as guardians on EU

does it look like the same amount of gurdians(95.29%) and mesmers (27.58%) to you?

Anton.1769:

Simon.3794:

Anton.1769:

Simon.3794:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

I have +than 3k hours in the game played all classes in spvp. If the shatter mesmer class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in almost every single successful team with the exactly same build.

You contradict yourself. Some EU and almost 0 NA successful teams use mesmers. BUT ALL of them use guardins!!!! It’s means you will lose 10/10 games without guards!

If the guardian class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in EVERY single successful team with the exactly same build Are you agree?

I think they should buff other support classes too, to create other valid options, but the guardian is not running around the entire map destroying people in a few seconds, the mesmers and thieves are. Also thief is a real risk reward class because most of their dmg come from melee range and they have less hp than mesmer. When was the last time you got killed by a guard? Try to put a mesmer to duel a guard. The max the guard will achieve is to take long to die and do no dmg.

But I still don’t understand: if mesmer so OP and sure -> guardian WHY we don’t see them at 100% of teams like guardins? May be that top teams just bunch of noobs and don’t see OPness of mesmer? Especially these dat NA teams. Need tell them how they are wrong

actually, guardian is not 100% anymore, atleast on NA.
and there are a lot of mesmers as well as guardians on EU.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2c56ep/tournament_pvp_win_rates/

does it look like 100% to you?

yes, 95.29% presence of guardins at team views us Guardin is a base of team.

and there are a lot of mesmers as well as guardians on EU

does it look like the same amount of gurdians(95.29%) and mesmers (27.58%) to you?

The percentage may be due to the fact it is harder to play mesmer than guardian. But from where are you collecting this data? Normal team queue? Most of the times the team that win Anet’s tourney have 1mesmer+thief.

xDudisx.5914:

Anton.1769:

Simon.3794:

Anton.1769:

Simon.3794:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

I have +than 3k hours in the game played all classes in spvp. If the shatter mesmer class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in almost every single successful team with the exactly same build.

You contradict yourself. Some EU and almost 0 NA successful teams use mesmers. BUT ALL of them use guardins!!!! It’s means you will lose 10/10 games without guards!

If the guardian class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in EVERY single successful team with the exactly same build Are you agree?

I think they should buff other support classes too, to create other valid options, but the guardian is not running around the entire map destroying people in a few seconds, the mesmers and thieves are. Also thief is a real risk reward class because most of their dmg come from melee range and they have less hp than mesmer. When was the last time you got killed by a guard? Try to put a mesmer to duel a guard. The max the guard will achieve is to take long to die and do no dmg.

But I still don’t understand: if mesmer so OP and sure -> guardian WHY we don’t see them at 100% of teams like guardins? May be that top teams just bunch of noobs and don’t see OPness of mesmer? Especially these dat NA teams. Need tell them how they are wrong

actually, guardian is not 100% anymore, atleast on NA.
and there are a lot of mesmers as well as guardians on EU.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2c56ep/tournament_pvp_win_rates/

does it look like 100% to you?

yes, 95.29% presence of guardins at team views us Guardin is a base of team.

and there are a lot of mesmers as well as guardians on EU

does it look like the same amount of gurdians(95.29%) and mesmers (27.58%) to you?

The percentage may be due to the fact it is harder to play mesmer than guardian. But from where are you collecting this data? Normal team queue? Most of the times the team that win Anet’s tourney have 1mesmer+thief.

If you will click link to reddit you ill see: “The tournaments that I have gathered info on are Mistpedia, ESL, ToL and MLG”

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

Anton.1769:

Simon.3794:

Anton.1769:

Simon.3794:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

I have +than 3k hours in the game played all classes in spvp. If the shatter mesmer class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in almost every single successful team with the exactly same build.

You contradict yourself. Some EU and almost 0 NA successful teams use mesmers. BUT ALL of them use guardins!!!! It’s means you will lose 10/10 games without guards!

If the guardian class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in EVERY single successful team with the exactly same build Are you agree?

I think they should buff other support classes too, to create other valid options, but the guardian is not running around the entire map destroying people in a few seconds, the mesmers and thieves are. Also thief is a real risk reward class because most of their dmg come from melee range and they have less hp than mesmer. When was the last time you got killed by a guard? Try to put a mesmer to duel a guard. The max the guard will achieve is to take long to die and do no dmg.

But I still don’t understand: if mesmer so OP and sure -> guardian WHY we don’t see them at 100% of teams like guardins? May be that top teams just bunch of noobs and don’t see OPness of mesmer? Especially these dat NA teams. Need tell them how they are wrong

actually, guardian is not 100% anymore, atleast on NA.
and there are a lot of mesmers as well as guardians on EU.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2c56ep/tournament_pvp_win_rates/

does it look like 100% to you?

yes, 95.29% presence of guardins at team views us Guardin is a base of team.

and there are a lot of mesmers as well as guardians on EU

does it look like the same amount of gurdians(95.29%) and mesmers (27.58%) to you?

The percentage may be due to the fact it is harder to play mesmer than guardian. But from where are you collecting this data? Normal team queue? Most of the times the team that win Anet’s tourney have 1mesmer+thief.

If you will click link to reddit you ill see: “The tournaments that I have gathered info on are Mistpedia, ESL, ToL and MLG”

This info is made before ToG, and there is no ToL 2, you will know how old this is, and does not fit in to the current meta, but a pure static information study.

and from the exact same link you provide:
Profession Win Rate
Elementalist 58.86%
Mesmer 52.54%
Thief 52.24%
Guardian 50.24%
Warrior 50.00%
Ranger 50.00%
Necromancer 47.25%
Engineer 44.77%

thanks.

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

Anton.1769:

Simon.3794:

Anton.1769:

Simon.3794:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

I have +than 3k hours in the game played all classes in spvp. If the shatter mesmer class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in almost every single successful team with the exactly same build.

You contradict yourself. Some EU and almost 0 NA successful teams use mesmers. BUT ALL of them use guardins!!!! It’s means you will lose 10/10 games without guards!

If the guardian class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in EVERY single successful team with the exactly same build Are you agree?

I think they should buff other support classes too, to create other valid options, but the guardian is not running around the entire map destroying people in a few seconds, the mesmers and thieves are. Also thief is a real risk reward class because most of their dmg come from melee range and they have less hp than mesmer. When was the last time you got killed by a guard? Try to put a mesmer to duel a guard. The max the guard will achieve is to take long to die and do no dmg.

But I still don’t understand: if mesmer so OP and sure -> guardian WHY we don’t see them at 100% of teams like guardins? May be that top teams just bunch of noobs and don’t see OPness of mesmer? Especially these dat NA teams. Need tell them how they are wrong

actually, guardian is not 100% anymore, atleast on NA.
and there are a lot of mesmers as well as guardians on EU.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2c56ep/tournament_pvp_win_rates/

does it look like 100% to you?

yes, 95.29% presence of guardins at team views us Guardin is a base of team.

and there are a lot of mesmers as well as guardians on EU

does it look like the same amount of gurdians(95.29%) and mesmers (27.58%) to you?

The percentage may be due to the fact it is harder to play mesmer than guardian. But from where are you collecting this data? Normal team queue? Most of the times the team that win Anet’s tourney have 1mesmer+thief.

If you will click link to reddit you ill see: “The tournaments that I have gathered info on are Mistpedia, ESL, ToL and MLG”

If anet ever make a 1v1 tourney prepare to see 100% mesmer or thief presence

Simon.3794:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

Anton.1769:

Simon.3794:

Anton.1769:

Simon.3794:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

I have +than 3k hours in the game played all classes in spvp. If the shatter mesmer class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in almost every single successful team with the exactly same build.

You contradict yourself. Some EU and almost 0 NA successful teams use mesmers. BUT ALL of them use guardins!!!! It’s means you will lose 10/10 games without guards!

If the guardian class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in EVERY single successful team with the exactly same build Are you agree?

I think they should buff other support classes too, to create other valid options, but the guardian is not running around the entire map destroying people in a few seconds, the mesmers and thieves are. Also thief is a real risk reward class because most of their dmg come from melee range and they have less hp than mesmer. When was the last time you got killed by a guard? Try to put a mesmer to duel a guard. The max the guard will achieve is to take long to die and do no dmg.

But I still don’t understand: if mesmer so OP and sure -> guardian WHY we don’t see them at 100% of teams like guardins? May be that top teams just bunch of noobs and don’t see OPness of mesmer? Especially these dat NA teams. Need tell them how they are wrong

actually, guardian is not 100% anymore, atleast on NA.
and there are a lot of mesmers as well as guardians on EU.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2c56ep/tournament_pvp_win_rates/

does it look like 100% to you?

yes, 95.29% presence of guardins at team views us Guardin is a base of team.

and there are a lot of mesmers as well as guardians on EU

does it look like the same amount of gurdians(95.29%) and mesmers (27.58%) to you?

The percentage may be due to the fact it is harder to play mesmer than guardian. But from where are you collecting this data? Normal team queue? Most of the times the team that win Anet’s tourney have 1mesmer+thief.

If you will click link to reddit you ill see: “The tournaments that I have gathered info on are Mistpedia, ESL, ToL and MLG”

Profession Win Rate
Elementalist 58.86%
Mesmer 52.54%
Thief 52.24%
Guardian 50.24%
Warrior 50.00%
Ranger 50.00%
Necromancer 47.25%
Engineer 44.77%

thanks.

have you want to say smth by your post?

Anton.1769:

Simon.3794:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

Anton.1769:

Simon.3794:

Anton.1769:

Simon.3794:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

I have +than 3k hours in the game played all classes in spvp. If the shatter mesmer class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in almost every single successful team with the exactly same build.

You contradict yourself. Some EU and almost 0 NA successful teams use mesmers. BUT ALL of them use guardins!!!! It’s means you will lose 10/10 games without guards!

If the guardian class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in EVERY single successful team with the exactly same build Are you agree?

I think they should buff other support classes too, to create other valid options, but the guardian is not running around the entire map destroying people in a few seconds, the mesmers and thieves are. Also thief is a real risk reward class because most of their dmg come from melee range and they have less hp than mesmer. When was the last time you got killed by a guard? Try to put a mesmer to duel a guard. The max the guard will achieve is to take long to die and do no dmg.

But I still don’t understand: if mesmer so OP and sure -> guardian WHY we don’t see them at 100% of teams like guardins? May be that top teams just bunch of noobs and don’t see OPness of mesmer? Especially these dat NA teams. Need tell them how they are wrong

actually, guardian is not 100% anymore, atleast on NA.
and there are a lot of mesmers as well as guardians on EU.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2c56ep/tournament_pvp_win_rates/

does it look like 100% to you?

yes, 95.29% presence of guardins at team views us Guardin is a base of team.

and there are a lot of mesmers as well as guardians on EU

does it look like the same amount of gurdians(95.29%) and mesmers (27.58%) to you?

The percentage may be due to the fact it is harder to play mesmer than guardian. But from where are you collecting this data? Normal team queue? Most of the times the team that win Anet’s tourney have 1mesmer+thief.

If you will click link to reddit you ill see: “The tournaments that I have gathered info on are Mistpedia, ESL, ToL and MLG”

This info is made before ToG, and there is no ToL 2, you will know how old this is, and does not fit in to the current meta, but a pure static information study.

and from the exact same link you provide:
Profession Win Rate
Elementalist 58.86%
Mesmer 52.54%
Thief 52.24%
Guardian 50.24%
Warrior 50.00%
Ranger 50.00%
Necromancer 47.25%
Engineer 44.77%

thanks.

have you want to say smth by your post?

if you cant comprehend it and can’t see through what is the main point and what is just a simple extra input of information, then i question your intellect, or you are simply trolling because you are proved wrong, then go on.

xDudisx.5914:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

Anton.1769:

Simon.3794:

Anton.1769:

Simon.3794:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

I have +than 3k hours in the game played all classes in spvp. If the shatter mesmer class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in almost every single successful team with the exactly same build.

You contradict yourself. Some EU and almost 0 NA successful teams use mesmers. BUT ALL of them use guardins!!!! It’s means you will lose 10/10 games without guards!

If the guardian class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in EVERY single successful team with the exactly same build Are you agree?

I think they should buff other support classes too, to create other valid options, but the guardian is not running around the entire map destroying people in a few seconds, the mesmers and thieves are. Also thief is a real risk reward class because most of their dmg come from melee range and they have less hp than mesmer. When was the last time you got killed by a guard? Try to put a mesmer to duel a guard. The max the guard will achieve is to take long to die and do no dmg.

But I still don’t understand: if mesmer so OP and sure -> guardian WHY we don’t see them at 100% of teams like guardins? May be that top teams just bunch of noobs and don’t see OPness of mesmer? Especially these dat NA teams. Need tell them how they are wrong

actually, guardian is not 100% anymore, atleast on NA.
and there are a lot of mesmers as well as guardians on EU.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2c56ep/tournament_pvp_win_rates/

does it look like 100% to you?

yes, 95.29% presence of guardins at team views us Guardin is a base of team.

and there are a lot of mesmers as well as guardians on EU

does it look like the same amount of gurdians(95.29%) and mesmers (27.58%) to you?

The percentage may be due to the fact it is harder to play mesmer than guardian. But from where are you collecting this data? Normal team queue? Most of the times the team that win Anet’s tourney have 1mesmer+thief.

If you will click link to reddit you ill see: “The tournaments that I have gathered info on are Mistpedia, ESL, ToL and MLG”

If anet ever make a 1v1 tourney prepare to see 100% mesmer or thief presence

Anet will never do it because they have told you 100 times they will not ballance 1×1 game mod

Simon.3794:

Anton.1769:

Simon.3794:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

Anton.1769:

Simon.3794:

Anton.1769:

Simon.3794:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

I have +than 3k hours in the game played all classes in spvp. If the shatter mesmer class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in almost every single successful team with the exactly same build.

You contradict yourself. Some EU and almost 0 NA successful teams use mesmers. BUT ALL of them use guardins!!!! It’s means you will lose 10/10 games without guards!

If the guardian class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in EVERY single successful team with the exactly same build Are you agree?

I think they should buff other support classes too, to create other valid options, but the guardian is not running around the entire map destroying people in a few seconds, the mesmers and thieves are. Also thief is a real risk reward class because most of their dmg come from melee range and they have less hp than mesmer. When was the last time you got killed by a guard? Try to put a mesmer to duel a guard. The max the guard will achieve is to take long to die and do no dmg.

But I still don’t understand: if mesmer so OP and sure -> guardian WHY we don’t see them at 100% of teams like guardins? May be that top teams just bunch of noobs and don’t see OPness of mesmer? Especially these dat NA teams. Need tell them how they are wrong

actually, guardian is not 100% anymore, atleast on NA.
and there are a lot of mesmers as well as guardians on EU.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2c56ep/tournament_pvp_win_rates/

does it look like 100% to you?

yes, 95.29% presence of guardins at team views us Guardin is a base of team.

and there are a lot of mesmers as well as guardians on EU

does it look like the same amount of gurdians(95.29%) and mesmers (27.58%) to you?

The percentage may be due to the fact it is harder to play mesmer than guardian. But from where are you collecting this data? Normal team queue? Most of the times the team that win Anet’s tourney have 1mesmer+thief.

If you will click link to reddit you ill see: “The tournaments that I have gathered info on are Mistpedia, ESL, ToL and MLG”

This info is made before ToG, and there is no ToL 2, you will know how old this is, and does not fit in to the current meta, but a pure static information study.

and from the exact same link you provide:
Profession Win Rate
Elementalist 58.86%
Mesmer 52.54%
Thief 52.24%
Guardian 50.24%
Warrior 50.00%
Ranger 50.00%
Necromancer 47.25%
Engineer 44.77%

thanks.

have you want to say smth by your post?

if you cant comprehend it and can’t see through what is the main point and what is just a simple extra input of information, then i question your intellect, or you are simply trolling because you are proved wrong, then go on.

you have posted table of winrates without any comments, what was the aim of this?

you will know how old this is, and does not fit in to the current meta

So at past pach mesmer was piece of … and at current meta he has become OP?

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

Anton.1769:

Simon.3794:

Anton.1769:

Simon.3794:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

I have +than 3k hours in the game played all classes in spvp. If the shatter mesmer class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in almost every single successful team with the exactly same build.

You contradict yourself. Some EU and almost 0 NA successful teams use mesmers. BUT ALL of them use guardins!!!! It’s means you will lose 10/10 games without guards!

If the guardian class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in EVERY single successful team with the exactly same build Are you agree?

I think they should buff other support classes too, to create other valid options, but the guardian is not running around the entire map destroying people in a few seconds, the mesmers and thieves are. Also thief is a real risk reward class because most of their dmg come from melee range and they have less hp than mesmer. When was the last time you got killed by a guard? Try to put a mesmer to duel a guard. The max the guard will achieve is to take long to die and do no dmg.

But I still don’t understand: if mesmer so OP and sure -> guardian WHY we don’t see them at 100% of teams like guardins? May be that top teams just bunch of noobs and don’t see OPness of mesmer? Especially these dat NA teams. Need tell them how they are wrong

actually, guardian is not 100% anymore, atleast on NA.
and there are a lot of mesmers as well as guardians on EU.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2c56ep/tournament_pvp_win_rates/

does it look like 100% to you?

yes, 95.29% presence of guardins at team views us Guardin is a base of team.

and there are a lot of mesmers as well as guardians on EU

does it look like the same amount of gurdians(95.29%) and mesmers (27.58%) to you?

The percentage may be due to the fact it is harder to play mesmer than guardian. But from where are you collecting this data? Normal team queue? Most of the times the team that win Anet’s tourney have 1mesmer+thief.

If you will click link to reddit you ill see: “The tournaments that I have gathered info on are Mistpedia, ESL, ToL and MLG”

If anet ever make a 1v1 tourney prepare to see 100% mesmer or thief presence

Anet will never do it because they have told you 100 times they will not ballance 1×1 game mod

So did you agree with me saying that shatter mesmer is not a balanced 1v1 class? Having builds like that is what keep us from having new game modes, because if they add anything other than conquest everyone would see how mesmer op in 1v1 open field. Do you have the source from they saying wont balance things in 1v1?

Sw/dg thief was in a situation similar to what mesmer is now. No way to counter the mobility imune spam. What they did? Made a way to count sw #3. That was a 1v1 balance.

xDudisx.5914:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

Anton.1769:

Simon.3794:

Anton.1769:

Simon.3794:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

Anton.1769:

xDudisx.5914:

I have +than 3k hours in the game played all classes in spvp. If the shatter mesmer class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in almost every single successful team with the exactly same build.

You contradict yourself. Some EU and almost 0 NA successful teams use mesmers. BUT ALL of them use guardins!!!! It’s means you will lose 10/10 games without guards!

If the guardian class was even close to be balance it would’t be present in EVERY single successful team with the exactly same build Are you agree?

I think they should buff other support classes too, to create other valid options, but the guardian is not running around the entire map destroying people in a few seconds, the mesmers and thieves are. Also thief is a real risk reward class because most of their dmg come from melee range and they have less hp than mesmer. When was the last time you got killed by a guard? Try to put a mesmer to duel a guard. The max the guard will achieve is to take long to die and do no dmg.

But I still don’t understand: if mesmer so OP and sure -> guardian WHY we don’t see them at 100% of teams like guardins? May be that top teams just bunch of noobs and don’t see OPness of mesmer? Especially these dat NA teams. Need tell them how they are wrong

actually, guardian is not 100% anymore, atleast on NA.
and there are a lot of mesmers as well as guardians on EU.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2c56ep/tournament_pvp_win_rates/

does it look like 100% to you?

yes, 95.29% presence of guardins at team views us Guardin is a base of team.

and there are a lot of mesmers as well as guardians on EU

does it look like the same amount of gurdians(95.29%) and mesmers (27.58%) to you?

The percentage may be due to the fact it is harder to play mesmer than guardian. But from where are you collecting this data? Normal team queue? Most of the times the team that win Anet’s tourney have 1mesmer+thief.

If you will click link to reddit you ill see: “The tournaments that I have gathered info on are Mistpedia, ESL, ToL and MLG”

If anet ever make a 1v1 tourney prepare to see 100% mesmer or thief presence

Anet will never do it because they have told you 100 times they will not ballance 1×1 game mod

So did you agree with me saying that shatter mesmer is not a balanced 1v1 class? Having builds like that is what keep us from having new game modes, because if they add anything other than conquest everyone would see how mesmer op in 1v1 open field. Do you have the source from they saying wont balance things in 1v1?

Sw/dg thief was in a situation similar to what mesmer is now. No way to counter the mobility imune spam. What they did? Made a way to count sw #3. That was a 1v1 balance.

After this post I have a big question about your ‘3k hours pvp’ because you don’t know what look likes real 1×1 speks. For mesmer 1×1 it’s PU mesmers, Phantasm mesmers.
For thiefs it’s not Sw/dg, but condie P/D, D/P with SA etc.

A completely baseless nerf thread.

How is the current shatter Mesmer meta build damaging for sPvP? Does its presence exclude any other classes from this game mode? Is it integral that every serious tPvP composition includes a shatter Mesmer? Does it reach a point where shatter Mesmer begins to carry a team? Is the risk/reward payoff totally out of skew?

These are the sort of questions that lead to balancing changes. You can’t just say something needs a nerf simply because it exists and/or is currently trending.

Simonoly.4352:

A completely baseless nerf thread.

How is the current shatter Mesmer meta build damaging for sPvP? Does its presence exclude any other classes from this game mode? Is it integral that every serious tPvP composition includes a shatter Mesmer? Does it reach a point where shatter Mesmer begins to carry a team? Is the risk/reward payoff totally out of skew?

These are the sort of questions that lead to balancing changes. You can’t just say something needs a nerf simply because it exists and/or is currently trending.

Zerker and too high spike dmg classes dmg the spvp. Theif and mesmer make almost all the other zerker builds not viable. The reward for all classes should be the same if played right.

xDudisx.5914:

Simonoly.4352:

A completely baseless nerf thread.

How is the current shatter Mesmer meta build damaging for sPvP? Does its presence exclude any other classes from this game mode? Is it integral that every serious tPvP composition includes a shatter Mesmer? Does it reach a point where shatter Mesmer begins to carry a team? Is the risk/reward payoff totally out of skew?

These are the sort of questions that lead to balancing changes. You can’t just say something needs a nerf simply because it exists and/or is currently trending.

Zerker and too high spike dmg classes dmg the spvp. Theif and mesmer make almost all the other zerker builds not viable. The reward for all classes should be the same if played right.

zerker Medi Guard eat thieves and mesmers at breakfast. When I play LB ranger I dominate mesmers with 22222., vs thieves not so easy but still I am not ‘not viable’ vs them.

xDudisx.5914:

Dondagora.9645:

Shattering, as a mechanic, is like Adrenaline skills on warrior, but weaker and a longer cool down. However, we have multiple shatters to cover us in different scenarios instead of a single powerful shatter, each punishing or countering as per the situation, so shattering alone does not help unless the person is paying attention to the when and what.
That’s the skill argument right there.

There’s also two other things to talk about: Resource and Avoidance.

As a mesmer, the resource you are provided with is illusions. Your illusions could give you various benefits while alive, like confusing the enemy or applying conditions or, in the case of phantasms, direct damage. When shattering, you sacrifice this security in a risk-gain scenario gambling your stable damage and protection for a chance to kill, counter-burst, halt, or survive. A mesmer is usually most vulnerable after a shatter because they have no illusions up to protect them, making them like a ranger without a pet[slightly stronger, but you get it, right?]. A good mesmer might be able to cover his tracks and maybe even run through more skills and dodges to get the illusion count back up, but that just shows how much they rely on illusions.

Avoidance… this is not wholly dodging. You can dodge Burst skills, you can dodge stealth skills, you can dodge pet skills. You can also dodge shatters. But, of course, sometimes a skilled mesmer will position his clones perfectly to shatter on you. However, the hole in this argument is two points: Firstly, you can kill illusions. If a mesmer places his clones all around you, it will take two or less hits to kill the clone prematurely. Phantasms are harder, yes, but the mesmer is sacrificing more when he shatters a phantasm so that’s to be expected. No other profession resource in this game, I believe, can be targeted and undone by the enemy. It would be like attacking initiative on a thief, or adrenaline on a warrior. Well, there’s the ranger’s pet, but that still follows the same principle. So if illusions are to close to avoid the shatter, you better kill them instead thinking them as non-existence barely-damaging AIs, as some do. Anything below 3 illusions isn’t that good for a mesmer unless they have IP, in which case they will be close enough for you to hit on your own.
Now, what if illusions are further away and you can’t kill them except with ranged? Well, firstly, use ranged to kill them if not otherwise preoccupied. Secondly, this means that when they run towards you, the tell will be much more obvious and you should do what you can to avoid them then. Blocks, dodge, invuln, etc. You can even kill them as they come. AoE devastates shatter builds as well.

Simply put, because shatter uses illusions, the big weakness are the illusions themselves, which is why it is fine.

The main problem is that ilusionary persona gives you 1s imune without having any ilusion. If this trait was not so much more powerfull than almost everything else we would see all mesmers puting 30 points in a traitline mainly because of it.

1 second of immune maybe once per fight because of the CD, it cannot be spammed and still requires thought. For instance, would you use IP for immunity for a single second if you had time to make more clones to get more? Or would you only use it in a very crunch situation which you would otherwise die from? To make this simple, IP gives a free or extra illusion for any use. However, it is just like any other invulnerable in that it cannot be spammed and is a high CD.

Also, you say the main problem is the 1 second immunity IP gives, but you fail to address the other points I make, seemingly ignore them. Can you please address them with reasons why they don’t make shatter non-OP?

Dondagora.9645:

xDudisx.5914:

Dondagora.9645:

Shattering, as a mechanic, is like Adrenaline skills on warrior, but weaker and a longer cool down. However, we have multiple shatters to cover us in different scenarios instead of a single powerful shatter, each punishing or countering as per the situation, so shattering alone does not help unless the person is paying attention to the when and what.
That’s the skill argument right there.

There’s also two other things to talk about: Resource and Avoidance.

As a mesmer, the resource you are provided with is illusions. Your illusions could give you various benefits while alive, like confusing the enemy or applying conditions or, in the case of phantasms, direct damage. When shattering, you sacrifice this security in a risk-gain scenario gambling your stable damage and protection for a chance to kill, counter-burst, halt, or survive. A mesmer is usually most vulnerable after a shatter because they have no illusions up to protect them, making them like a ranger without a pet[slightly stronger, but you get it, right?]. A good mesmer might be able to cover his tracks and maybe even run through more skills and dodges to get the illusion count back up, but that just shows how much they rely on illusions.

Avoidance… this is not wholly dodging. You can dodge Burst skills, you can dodge stealth skills, you can dodge pet skills. You can also dodge shatters. But, of course, sometimes a skilled mesmer will position his clones perfectly to shatter on you. However, the hole in this argument is two points: Firstly, you can kill illusions. If a mesmer places his clones all around you, it will take two or less hits to kill the clone prematurely. Phantasms are harder, yes, but the mesmer is sacrificing more when he shatters a phantasm so that’s to be expected. No other profession resource in this game, I believe, can be targeted and undone by the enemy. It would be like attacking initiative on a thief, or adrenaline on a warrior. Well, there’s the ranger’s pet, but that still follows the same principle. So if illusions are to close to avoid the shatter, you better kill them instead thinking them as non-existence barely-damaging AIs, as some do. Anything below 3 illusions isn’t that good for a mesmer unless they have IP, in which case they will be close enough for you to hit on your own.
Now, what if illusions are further away and you can’t kill them except with ranged? Well, firstly, use ranged to kill them if not otherwise preoccupied. Secondly, this means that when they run towards you, the tell will be much more obvious and you should do what you can to avoid them then. Blocks, dodge, invuln, etc. You can even kill them as they come. AoE devastates shatter builds as well.

Simply put, because shatter uses illusions, the big weakness are the illusions themselves, which is why it is fine.

The main problem is that ilusionary persona gives you 1s imune without having any ilusion. If this trait was not so much more powerfull than almost everything else we would see all mesmers puting 30 points in a traitline mainly because of it.

1 second of immune maybe once per fight because of the CD, it cannot be spammed and still requires thought. For instance, would you use IP for immunity for a single second if you had time to make more clones to get more? Or would you only use it in a very crunch situation which you would otherwise die from? To make this simple, IP gives a free or extra illusion for any use. However, it is just like any other invulnerable in that it cannot be spammed and is a high CD.

Also, you say the main problem is the 1 second immunity IP gives, but you fail to address the other points I make, seemingly ignore them. Can you please address them with reasons why they don’t make shatter non-OP?

Illusion creation is easy to be done. You dodge you get a clone. 4 out of your 10 weapon skills create a clone or phantasm. Can create even more with utilities. Every single shatter has IP. Shater is insta cast. Say that someone can dodge can be used to just about everything in this game, following that nothing should have been ever changed because well people can dodge. Also moa.