Guild Wars 2

Nope, they should listen to everyone and should balance for all skill levels to promote people playing and to promote high level play. They don’t do this correctly though. The balance is horrible at high levels and probably horrible at low levels too. A tough job nonetheless.

I think they should balance the meta builds based on feedback from players at the top level. I have 4 accounts and a 70%+ win rate in solo Q over 500+ games. There are very few people capable of doing this because very few people can be as strong in alot of different combat scenarios. I think they should listen to people who are able to achieve similar records to this AND people who play in the teams which are doing well in team q and especially the tournaments that Anet host.

This way they can balance the builds based on the feedback from the proven best INDIVIDUAL players AND the proven best TEAM players.

Knote.2904:

That’s it, none of that changes how I play, it just adds a few more numbers to everything I was already doing previously, that’s where I feel the game could really use some improvement on.

My warrior plays pretty differently equipped with a shield instead of a warhorn, or a greatsword instead of a longbow. I haven’t tried Mesmer, and based on my experiences with them in WvW, I don’t think I’d mind too terribly much if they were “accidentally” deleted from the game and the person who came up with the illusion idea “accidentally” locked in a cupboard for a week.

The risk of having traits considerably alter the functionality of a skill is that it’s no longer simply adding something to the skill, but changing it completely. The closest I’d feel comfortable with would be like Quick Breathing, which causes Warhorn skills to convert a condition to a boon; it encourages more strategic use of the horn skills while not necessarily changing the way they’re used.

PizzaSHARK.2741:

Knote.2904:

That’s it, none of that changes how I play, it just adds a few more numbers to everything I was already doing previously, that’s where I feel the game could really use some improvement on.

My warrior plays pretty differently equipped with a shield instead of a warhorn, or a greatsword instead of a longbow. I haven’t tried Mesmer, and based on my experiences with them in WvW, I don’t think I’d mind too terribly much if they were “accidentally” deleted from the game and the person who came up with the illusion idea “accidentally” locked in a cupboard for a week.

The risk of having traits considerably alter the functionality of a skill is that it’s no longer simply adding something to the skill, but changing it completely. The closest I’d feel comfortable with would be like Quick Breathing, which causes Warhorn skills to convert a condition to a boon; it encourages more strategic use of the horn skills while not necessarily changing the way they’re used.

Yes, but there’s only a few weapons to choose from, and thus only a handful of “playstyles” to choose from.

Traits don’t have to considerably alter skills completely, but it would be nice if they did away with all the pointless dmg fluff traits and made EVERY trait a game changer like Quick Breathing, stuff that actually modifies how you play.

PizzaSHARK.2741:

Knote.2904:

That’s it, none of that changes how I play, it just adds a few more numbers to everything I was already doing previously, that’s where I feel the game could really use some improvement on.

My warrior plays pretty differently equipped with a shield instead of a warhorn, or a greatsword instead of a longbow. I haven’t tried Mesmer, and based on my experiences with them in WvW, I don’t think I’d mind too terribly much if they were “accidentally” deleted from the game and the person who came up with the illusion idea “accidentally” locked in a cupboard for a week.

The risk of having traits considerably alter the functionality of a skill is that it’s no longer simply adding something to the skill, but changing it completely. The closest I’d feel comfortable with would be like Quick Breathing, which causes Warhorn skills to convert a condition to a boon; it encourages more strategic use of the horn skills while not necessarily changing the way they’re used.

Traited they’re on 12/16 second cooldowns, they’re fairly spammable really. #Strategy

Oblivion.8307:

PizzaSHARK.2741:

Knote.2904:

That’s it, none of that changes how I play, it just adds a few more numbers to everything I was already doing previously, that’s where I feel the game could really use some improvement on.

My warrior plays pretty differently equipped with a shield instead of a warhorn, or a greatsword instead of a longbow. I haven’t tried Mesmer, and based on my experiences with them in WvW, I don’t think I’d mind too terribly much if they were “accidentally” deleted from the game and the person who came up with the illusion idea “accidentally” locked in a cupboard for a week.

The risk of having traits considerably alter the functionality of a skill is that it’s no longer simply adding something to the skill, but changing it completely. The closest I’d feel comfortable with would be like Quick Breathing, which causes Warhorn skills to convert a condition to a boon; it encourages more strategic use of the horn skills while not necessarily changing the way they’re used.

Traited they’re on 12/16 second cooldowns, they’re fairly spammable really. #Strategy

That’s not the point.

OP I think you’re coming off as conceited. Being good at this game doesn’t give someone more insight to what makes it fun for the 90% that actually pays Anet’s bills. You wouldn’t have played so long if you didn’t enjoy it so is Anet really doing that bad? It’s just a game after all.

Regards,

Allie Murdock.8152:

There is no single part of our player base that we should or do listen to more than the other. Every player has equal opportunity to say how they feel, and the “4%-10%” is not excluded in that. What we “listen” to is reason and objective feedback.

Do note though, what we listen to != what we implement (at least not right away). We read your suggestions all the time, but sometimes those suggestions are not in line with the pillars of our game. Sometimes those suggestions are ill-informed. Sometimes those suggestions are selfish (buff x class “cuz it’s my fave and I want to roll over everyone”). Sometimes those suggestions are so great that it inspires us to add a new project to the backlog. Sometimes those suggestions are already a part of the project we are working on.

Most of the time, we can’t immediately implement good suggestions. These things take time and discussion. These things have to be weighed against other things and prioritized.

All of this doesn’t matter though, if the 4%-10% spends little to no time giving us feedback for one reason or another (inactive, don’t care, think we don’t listen even if that’s wrong, etc.).

Ideally, you would all feel comfortable and willing to share your objective feedback, but that is not always the case, and that is not something we can control.

Why should people spend time and give devs of feed back ? As I know it is should be done by players on test servers or by hired personal. Some guys don’t even speak english and but still playng PvP most of the time. To be honest this is a very poor balancing system.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Big balance changes like this shake things up a lot

i lol’d

They should listen to everyone (and I trust they do), especially if the people who have complaints represent 90% of their population!

As for the specific issue of the “blind” on thief, if several players report an (obviously not real) “issue” with this, then maybe there is still a problem of accessibility / “telegraphing” / skill visibility.
In this particular example, IF many new people do not realise they are being blinded by the red circle below them, then Anet might decide to make it more obvious (e.g. a bigger smoke effect coming from the ground and covering your face, or whatever they would come up with).
After all, these players must also enjoy their experience as much as possible to keep playing PvP and eventually become one of the 10% (or 4 or 6).

In this specific example, IIRC the player was pretty much alone in thinking that there was an issue with the blind powder though, so obviously this is more an isolate post.
I wish GW2 new moderation policy would also protect the players from being ridiculed by other players when they genuinely don’t know something.

Flamfloz.6732:

They should listen to everyone (and I trust they do), especially if the people who have complaints represent 90% of their population!

As for the specific issue of the “blind” on thief, if several players report an (obviously not real) “issue” with this, then maybe there is still a problem of accessibility / “telegraphing” / skill visibility.
In this particular example, IF many new people do not realise they are being blinded by the red circle below them, then Anet might decide to make it more obvious (e.g. a bigger smoke effect coming from the ground and covering your face, or whatever they would come up with).
After all, these players must also enjoy their experience as much as possible to keep playing PvP and eventually become one of the 10% (or 4 or 6).

In this specific example, IIRC the player was pretty much alone in thinking that there was an issue with the blind powder though, so obviously this is more an isolate post.
I wish GW2 new moderation policy would also protect the players from being ridiculed by other players when they genuinely don’t know something.

This 100%

Didn’t people argue about this not too long ago? I think Allie gave a good response on this.

I always thought the whole idea of a forum was for community feedback. Granted people have their own ideas about what works and what needs fixing and how to fix it, pretty much anyone can come up with ideas. The merit of improving something should be based on the idea itself and if it stands up to scrutiny then maybe its a good idea. It can come from some guy who just played the game for 30 minutes or from someone who has religiously played since the games beginning.

After all, its just a game we’re not developing it or require extensive training and education to give ideas on how it can be improved. This whole idea of ‘listening to top whatever %’ can never really be enforced properly anyway. Who decides who the ‘top’ players are? What if you fall out of say the ‘top 10%’, your like the ‘top 12%’? What if you were a ‘top’ player before but now just a casual player? What if you just became a ‘top’ player for the last month? What metrics are you going to use to determine who gets heard and who doesn’t?

One players or even a few players experience does not define the game, its 100% of the players and they all deserve a say. Its really up to anet to filter and be objective and do something about the good ideas, which I’m sure they should be used to by now.

Sensotix.4106:

have been playing with and against the best pvp players in this game

bro, theyre gone. the best pvp’ers in this game havent done spvp since last winter. there was a huge exodus around that time when everyone started realizing that the pvp devs lack experience. the others went into WvW.

Im following 3 mesmers atm, sensotix, subcutie and helseth and tbh the devs arent listening at all, those 3 all know each class to an extend that goes beyond the devs understanding of the game.

Still the devs are mindlessly making excuses that balancing takes time, like what 3 months for a patch…

Personally I like helseth his playstyle and his skill the most. On his stream when he is solo queing he is actually saying what he counters, why he is casting that skill, this is what I miss from the other 2 mesmers, in all honestly havent seen sensotix streaming dow but subcuty is silent most of the time…

Anyway to the OP would love to see you stream, I love your builds and interviews on your channel, keep it up.

to close up, devs should make monthly talks about balancing PvP with top players,…the problem I have is that PvP updates are so slow and that they keep on saying that the current meta needs to be tested out first….top players are almost instantly saying after the patch HELLO DEVS wake up, dont you think we tested it already, I would suggest after a week a new patch releases talk to the top players and make preparations already for another patch.

in my opinion balancing is about balancing for good teams good players and if you are new so be it, adjust and learn to play better then. I rather have a balanced game for skilled players then build that require spamming a couple of buttons

gz darkdanjal

Well this kinda of behavior its what makes psychologists rich..Have you ever heard of the narcisistic behaviour?
Ok it may not go that far for you but its a good start..

Allie gave a excelent answer to that and i respect Anet for this philosophy.

Its completly different to not hear the hasty and confused opinion some ppl may have sometimes from be expected to be given a throne were you can bless us with your knowledge..
Grow up, its a game

why i get no love? i was fighting for all the players and was the one who got bashed. i didnt see any +1

:)

korzal.5068:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Big balance changes like this shake things up a lot

i lol’d

Tooltip meta, brah. It needs at least four months to settle.

As to the OP’s suggestion, yes, more coordinated interaction between the current top-tier players, such as they are, and the developers would be welcome. A video is a good start, but what this game really needs is a PvP-specific platform for long-term player base interaction. A venue that provides a more focused feedback channel than the GW2 official forum, which is 99% just noise from clueless plebs like myself.

I think Grouch’s State of the Game thingies were a good attempt at giving the player base a voice, but they always felt constrained somehow. Maybe it’s because of the pressure of live broadcast and time constraints, but the discussions never really took off and steered clear of any controversy. I don’t know if a player council type of solution would work in this game, but I’d be glad to see something like that at least tried. That way, player representatives would get to provide feedback without the added pressure of a live broadcast. Most nerds don’t do TV well.

On a more general level, it’s puzzling how little Anet utilizes crowdsourcing. I bet there are a sizable number of players willing to essentially help develop GW2 PvP free of charge on a public test server, just for the knowledge that their input would be considered in the overall direction of PvP. The fact that a PTS was not available at launch suggest two things, both of them troubling:

a) ANet does not have the resources to implement one and/or the infrastructure to collect data in a structured manner. (= Sad but not fatal)

a) ANet feels that they know better and that they don’t need one. (= PvP is doomed)

hasty confused, sorry in all respect some of them even predicted what would happen before the patch released, and guess what they were spot on, stop defending the devs please….

and it doesnt mean because I like certain players Im narcistic you know, there is a reason I like there streams and channels, over the last months I learned more about the game then I learned months ago.

Have you ever seen devs playing 100 of soloqueus or teamqueues, they dont have a clue or feel what competitive gaming is, they are mindless watching tournies, PAX or whatever and they are thinking hey this is balanced while top teams, players are even playing different classes because theres is broken in the current meta, WAKE up….

sensotix good topic:)

if they listen to proper players ,they would never make stack immobilizing , or they would give stability (2secs) to all stunbreaks ,or they wouldnt buff allready OP classes…….

LOL is kinda interesting. It definitely listens to all its players when balancing.

However, it seems to balance its tougher to play characters on info provided by its elite players. And the ‘starting’ or easier characters based on info from the general player base.

Ideally, Anet would balance the tournament builds based on elite player feedback and other builds on your average player.

Sadly, the meta is so poor most classes only have one build for each mode. This ahould be their focus. How to make other builds viable to avoid stagnation.

meta is not that bad ,just make eles and mesmers viable ,and nerf warriors a bit
get rid of perma fears stuns and now immob …..that is it

first, I like the idea of Sensotix. But I’m sorry to say this, it’s just worthless, since Anet DO NOT listen to the community. I appreciate really, that you guys still care about PvP. But did you miss the last 8 months? Any really big improvements? Just take this this patch as an example…It’s just far to late to make this game viable.

Anyway, if you think Anet can do better, with such suggestions/videos, go on – but don’t be frustrated afterwards.

Every effort to making this game better is a waste of time imo.

Sensotix.4106:

Sarrs.4831:

Sensotix.4106:

seems like i am wasting my time tho since a lot of people think i am an arrogant prick that only wants attention -.-’

At last, something everyone can agree with.

haha wow! gg random dude

i suggest you sensotix just to leave it as it is and don’t waste your time
i tried to help as well no point really neither the players can see if they are wrong nor the devs because they did not play as much as we did (and not on that level) and because of that the devs are kinda also in that 90%

either anet has a really bad management or underfunded or just incompetent developers but all these options lead to what we got right now -> a bad and broken pvp
i truly hope it will change cause i love the game but currently this game goes into a dead end ( spvp, tpvp only)
good luck anet and good luck sensotix but again read the first paragraph and think about it

Allie Murdock.8152:

Big balance changes like this shake things up a lot

He..hehe..hehehe. I am shocked right now.

Reesha.7901:

Allie Murdock.8152:

The patch has been out for 2 days. There were so many changes that we really need to let things settle and let people find their way. Big balance changes like this shake things up a lot, and nobody can know how the community will adapt to the change until they adapt to the change, which usually takes longer than a couple days.

Maybe this is a bad place to post a suggestion, as I am not an experienced tournament player. ^^

I think it would be rather awesome if the top teams could test balance changes. A custom arena maybe, where those teams could play matches against one another, before the changes went live.

That way, feedback from experienced players could be handed directly to the developers. Balance would be tested by experienced players, and the rest of us would still have the option to voice our opinions afterwards to cower anything not discovered through testing.

I am sure I am not the first to think of this

i agree 100% !

Having top players testing balance changes before patch get live was suggested months and months ago, many times, but seems like Devs are tied to keep everything secret until it comes out, or even if they say something its because its already written in stone and wont change.

@ Sensotix, I admire your efforts to try to change things to get some good pvp going, but even if i used to be a strong supporter of this game, every patch drags me away.
This game has great combat dynamics, but has some wrongs things in its core that Devs couldnt see as a problem, or maybe they know that but they dont want to change cause they think its better for them to keep things as they are.

Hi Allie, Alot of people want ranger to be balanced in par with other classes. Also we would like our range back, pet F2 FIXES and maybe new bow types? Check out the ranger forum since devs haven’t been there much. Kthanksbye

RADOM.9634:

Sensotix.4106:

Sarrs.4831:

Sensotix.4106:

seems like i am wasting my time tho since a lot of people think i am an arrogant prick that only wants attention -.-’

At last, something everyone can agree with.

haha wow! gg random dude

i suggest you sensotix just to leave it as it is and don’t waste your time
i tried to help as well no point really neither the players can see if they are wrong nor the devs because they did not play as much as we did (and not on that level) and because of that the devs are kinda also in that 90%

either anet has a really bad management or underfunded or just incompetent developers but all these options lead to what we got right now -> a bad and broken pvp
i truly hope it will change cause i love the game but currently this game goes into a dead end ( spvp, tpvp only)
good luck anet and good luck sensotix but again read the first paragraph and think about it

yes i know it wont change anything probably but this video will be my last try to do something so that people cant blame me for being pathetic and just talking but not doing anything to help
also i would love to hear ur opinion as well radom so if you could give me your skype address that would be nice

Destiny.6738:

first, I like the idea of Sensotix. But I’m sorry to say this, it’s just worthless, since Anet DO NOT listen to the community. I appreciate really, that you guys still care about PvP. But did you miss the last 8 months? Any really big improvements? Just take this this patch as an example…It’s just far to late to make this game viable.

Anyway, if you think Anet can do better, with such suggestions/videos, go on – but don’t be frustrated afterwards.

Every effort to making this game better is a waste of time imo.

well it will be my last try and if nothing changes i will quit as well because loosing is not fun..and even winning is not fun so…

dzindzinier.6138:

sensotix good topic:)

if they listen to proper players ,they would never make stack immobilizing , or they would give stability (2secs) to all stunbreaks ,or they wouldnt buff allready OP classes…….

thanks for the support dzin last attempt to change something in this game tho

Darkdanjal.3401:

Im following 3 mesmers atm, sensotix, subcutie and helseth and tbh the devs arent listening at all, those 3 all know each class to an extend that goes beyond the devs understanding of the game.

Still the devs are mindlessly making excuses that balancing takes time, like what 3 months for a patch…

Personally I like helseth his playstyle and his skill the most. On his stream when he is solo queing he is actually saying what he counters, why he is casting that skill, this is what I miss from the other 2 mesmers, in all honestly havent seen sensotix streaming dow but subcuty is silent most of the time…

Anyway to the OP would love to see you stream, I love your builds and interviews on your channel, keep it up.

to close up, devs should make monthly talks about balancing PvP with top players,…the problem I have is that PvP updates are so slow and that they keep on saying that the current meta needs to be tested out first….top players are almost instantly saying after the patch HELLO DEVS wake up, dont you think we tested it already, I would suggest after a week a new patch releases talk to the top players and make preparations already for another patch.

in my opinion balancing is about balancing for good teams good players and if you are new so be it, adjust and learn to play better then. I rather have a balanced game for skilled players then build that require spamming a couple of buttons

gz darkdanjal

thanks for your feedback i appreciate it and totally agree
i will also try to make videos where i explain everything i do but before that i will do that video about what guild wars 2 needs because after that i will decide if i leave this game since i already put so much effort in it and i have university which really keeps me busy but since i really enjoyed playing this game this will be my last attempt to change things

Darkdanjal.3401:

Im following 3 mesmers atm, sensotix, subcutie and helseth and tbh the devs arent listening at all, those 3 all know each class to an extend that goes beyond the devs understanding of the game.

Still the devs are mindlessly making excuses that balancing takes time, like what 3 months for a patch…

Personally I like helseth his playstyle and his skill the most. On his stream when he is solo queing he is actually saying what he counters, why he is casting that skill, this is what I miss from the other 2 mesmers, in all honestly havent seen sensotix streaming dow but subcuty is silent most of the time…

Anyway to the OP would love to see you stream, I love your builds and interviews on your channel, keep it up.

to close up, devs should make monthly talks about balancing PvP with top players,…the problem I have is that PvP updates are so slow and that they keep on saying that the current meta needs to be tested out first….top players are almost instantly saying after the patch HELLO DEVS wake up, dont you think we tested it already, I would suggest after a week a new patch releases talk to the top players and make preparations already for another patch.

in my opinion balancing is about balancing for good teams good players and if you are new so be it, adjust and learn to play better then. I rather have a balanced game for skilled players then build that require spamming a couple of buttons

gz darkdanjal

the point is that there’s no one playing anymore at the top. yesterday my guildies which are NOT EVEN ON THE LEADERBOARD faced rom and azron team ( top 10 EU) while me (ranked) faced random scrubs not even ranked.

broken matchmaking, useless leaderboard punishing for playing, 0 incentives to play have totally broken this game, so no one will be able to " test" new buikds and a possible “new meta” there at the top, because there’s no “top” anymore.

it seems aNet devs don’t understand they’re killing their own game and that it may be already too late

Personally, with all due respect I think developers underestimate how quickly the playerbase soaks up information and tests things…a perfect example of this is PvE, Ive seen interviews and direct quotes from developers saying " We didn’t expect tequatl to be beaten within the first 24 hours ". " I didn’t expect so many to complete the Clocktower jumping puzzle let alone so quickly etc etc. "

The same can be said for PvP, I’m trying to say this as delicately as I can be it truly does feel the devs underestimate the capabilities of its veteran PvP’ers to know what will come of what changes etc. The whole no one even knew about warriors arguement is thrown around a lot with devs saying it took the playerbase months to find a suitable build for it, while top PvP’ers are saying we already knew about it.

I dont get into that style of arguement, but unless you have the inability to revert balance changes, you need to make sPvP only changes that are far more volatile and less " safe ". The reason I suggest this is because your notion that we don’t want to confuse PvE’ers when they try PvP by splitting skills is flat out not working.

I PROMISE you, players aren’t flocking to PvP because of the split rewards not because of the split skills….skill splitting is a must…but rewards SHOULD be tangible in both PvE and PvP, they should intertwine.

“The patch has been out for 2 days. There were so many changes that we really need to let things settle and let people find their way. Big balance changes like this shake things up a lot, and nobody can know how the community will adapt to the change until they adapt to the change, which usually takes longer than a couple days. "
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I can’t spot any issues that where solved, addressed or even looked at for this patch. “Big balance” turned out to be a big mess, I’m tired of waiting so long so simple fixes for example, I’ve waited over a year for some Ranger’s pets F2 Skill to be fixed. Waited over a year for Rangers to be given back their skill and range, the class is almost an empty shell.
Also it isn’t just Rangers, plenty of the classes need a REAL balance.

It seems to me that many people feel that they ought to be given special privileges/more input for any number of reasons. Instead of arguing why not try to get a job with Anet like Powerr and Grouch have done? At least then you’ll be privy to the inner workings of the process and not just another guy on the outside screaming to people on the inside that you need to be heard.

hooma.9642:

Allie Murdock.8152:

There is no single part of our player base that we should or do listen to more than the other. Every player has equal opportunity to say how they feel, and the “4%-10%” is not excluded in that. What we “listen” to is reason and objective feedback.

Do note though, what we listen to != what we implement (at least not right away). We read your suggestions all the time, but sometimes those suggestions are not in line with the pillars of our game. Sometimes those suggestions are ill-informed. Sometimes those suggestions are selfish (buff x class “cuz it’s my fave and I want to roll over everyone”). Sometimes those suggestions are so great that it inspires us to add a new project to the backlog. Sometimes those suggestions are already a part of the project we are working on.

Most of the time, we can’t immediately implement good suggestions. These things take time and discussion. These things have to be weighed against other things and prioritized.

All of this doesn’t matter though, if the 4%-10% spends little to no time giving us feedback for one reason or another (inactive, don’t care, think we don’t listen even if that’s wrong, etc.).

Ideally, you would all feel comfortable and willing to share your objective feedback, but that is not always the case, and that is not something we can control.

thx allie

exact what i said. its not our duty to judge and filter.

Sensotix has been a major part of pvp for about a year now, and you have not even done 11 games in pvp, you dont know the meta and have no clue which classes are the problem. saying that someone who has no exp in pvp has an equal voice towards the meta change is like hiring a carpenter to install your toilet. He is only trying to draw attention to elements of the game which have driven the best part of the pvp community away, your posts have been the opposite of constructive and why do you care about pvp anyway seeing as you dont even play it stop ruining pvp for the people who really care about it. also i agree with all the things mentioned in this post, also hes done some really good interviews with top players on youtube so check them out too, these arent just his opinions they are the opinions of the vast majority of the pvp community.

Yeah I agree with the above responses, it seems like the devs arent aware of the fact that for example Sensotix, helseth have been playing the game its PvP since the start of beta, that makes them have more understanding of the game then any of the devs.

The devs dont have the time to play the game that much, the fact is that players are coming up with all sorts of different builds and strategies, not the devs and by doing so there knowledge of what counters what is far greater.

Im actually thinking that instead of after a patch, that before or during the livestream TOP players (whats left of them) should already be allowed to have some input so the devs can adjust to it, not saying that after a patch there shouldn be a talk about balance changes.

The point is there needs to be far more communication then just forums.

Darkdanjal.3401:

Yeah I agree with the above responses, it seems like the devs arent aware of the fact that for example Sensotix, helseth have been playing the game its PvP since the start of beta, that makes them have more understanding of the game then any of the devs.

The devs dont have the time to play the game that much, the fact is that players are coming up with all sorts of different builds and strategies, not the devs and by doing so there knowledge of what counters what is far greater.

Im actually thinking that instead of after a patch, that before or during the livestream TOP players (whats left of them) should already be allowed to have some input so the devs can adjust to it, not saying that after a patch there shouldn be a talk about balance changes.

The point is there needs to be far more communication then just forums.

i totally agree! that’s really a constructive post

Renn.8241:

“The patch has been out for 2 days. There were so many changes that we really need to let things settle and let people find their way. Big balance changes like this shake things up a lot, and nobody can know how the community will adapt to the change until they adapt to the change, which usually takes longer than a couple days. "
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I can’t spot any issues that where solved, addressed or even looked at for this patch. “Big balance” turned out to be a big mess, I’m tired of waiting so long so simple fixes for example, I’ve waited over a year for some Ranger’s pets F2 Skill to be fixed. Waited over a year for Rangers to be given back their skill and range, the class is almost an empty shell.
Also it isn’t just Rangers, plenty of the classes need a REAL balance.

Its more like some classes cant just compete with others on a competitive play, as in your case a friend of mine is playing ranger and all he does most of the time is just autoattacking my shatter mesmer, its not that I cant defeat him but the amount of effort that I have to put in is just to much, same with s/d thiefs and now venom share thiefs, they are beatable but in team play Im just completely outplayed by some of them, you can say then to me why dont you play support, well some classes are just better suited for it, why dont you play bunker, again some classes way better then that…..

anyway you can talk about balance forever, I already said what I think should be done about it on other responses

Game on and have fun :P

I’m agree with you Darkdanjal (above response), Like you I think that players should be able to connect on a beta serv, with the new balance patch. But not only top players.

Just a beta serv with pvp balance doesn’t endanger the surprise of the PvE event ! And it would allow players to see the devs optical medium term

Well its not that I want casual players to not be part of it but I mean in understanding the game and making suggestions to balance, long term players have just a better input then casual players.

I mean there can be a talk about balance and afterwords a talk about suggestions on rewards, other modes, there just needs to be a separation on balance and more casual suggestions, that would help a lot.

Its like sensotix interviewing top players like ashzene or any other top player, it should be the same for devs talking to them = COMMUNICATION
And for casual players devs should make a livestream, there is a topic out now what do you guys want most, and everyone is saying there top 3 things, I think that topic is ok but it would be good afterwards to make a livestream about it.

Sensotix.4106:

I feel like the devs are really listening to what people on the forums say but the big problem with this is that there are 90% or people that know little or nothing about pvp, 6 % people that have a decent knowledge and then 4% that are top tier pvp players

The problem i want to adress is that most of the time you see suggestions from the 90% and the other 10% can’t really say something against it since the mass of players kinda rules how the game developes..
To my mind it would be important to listen to the 4% (or the 10%) because then we might see good changes that 90% of the people wont understand at first but those changes would be much better for the game than the changes the 90% suggest…

I really liked some of the changes in the last patches but we are still missing a lot of things that can be implemented really easily because they are not that big

I play with a lot of the 10 % players and then we end up talking about the game between the matches and i hear so many great ideas …

Cheers
Sensotix

PS: Therefore I will make a video in which I collect ideas from other players i think know enough about the game to bring things forward and also to say what I think

On the other hand, 2 % of the people know medium well, 6.5% know it pretty well, 11% know it but, only as eles, while another 45% don’t know it, but do under the right moon phase. Also, 99% of statics are true and only 1% are randomly made up.

Julius.1094:

On the other hand, 2 % of the people know medium well, 6.5% know it pretty well, 11% know it but, only as eles, while another 45% don’t know it, but do under the right moon phase. Also, 99% of statics are true and only 1% are randomly made up.

Lol +1 the bogus statistics are pretty funny.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Do note though, what we listen to != what we implement (at least not right away). We read your suggestions all the time, but sometimes those suggestions are not in line with the pillars of our game. Sometimes those suggestions are ill-informed. Sometimes those suggestions are selfish (buff x class “cuz it’s my fave and I want to roll over everyone”). _*Sometimes those suggestions are so great that it inspires us to add a new project to the backlog. Sometimes those suggestions are already a part of the project we are working on.

I think it would be wonderfull if you can share this “to do list”. It would save time for any of us: player wich post again and again the same subjet, forum moderator and dev too will have fewer post to read /moderate. It would also increase greatly communication. Today some very good topics “collaboratives development” merged almost everywhere (in the french forum too ^^) so its a first step thats sound very good

hooma.9642:

why i get no love? i was fighting for all the players and was the one who got bashed. i didnt see any +1

:)

I give you a +1 hooma because I agree with everything you have said fwiw. This thread is not constructive or useful at all – it’s just “devs should listen to the people that meet my definition of the top 10% and nobody else” which is, as you have clearly articulated, a bad argument. Glad to see posts from Allie that show they listen and evaluate all suggestions. Even though there are clearly a lot of bad ones, they can get still get people thinking out of the box which is never a bad thing.

Sensotix.4106:

I feel like the devs are really listening to what people on the forums say but the big problem with this is that there are 90% or people that know little or nothing about pvp, 6 % people that have a decent knowledge and then 4% that are top tier pvp players

The problem i want to adress is that most of the time you see suggestions from the 90% and the other 10% can’t really say something against it since the mass of players kinda rules how the game developes..
To my mind it would be important to listen to the 4% (or the 10%) because then we might see good changes that 90% of the people wont understand at first but those changes would be much better for the game than the changes the 90% suggest…

I really liked some of the changes in the last patches but we are still missing a lot of things that can be implemented really easily because they are not that big

I play with a lot of the 10 % players and then we end up talking about the game between the matches and i hear so many great ideas …

Cheers
Sensotix

PS: Therefore I will make a video in which I collect ideas from other players i think know enough about the game to bring things forward and also to say what I think

just as an aside, well you may be a go to for changes the issue comes in that you only pvp, and the changes you suggest have sweeping ramifications on other aspects of the game including wvw. The problem as I see it is the classes are being balanced around spvp and one form of pvp “conquest” this in turn leaves to small of a sample size of how a class plays. If you want to use the “best” players to do balance then you need to pool players from all three aspects of the game and work on balancing accordingly even if that involves a true splitting of skills.

Leadfoot.9071:

hooma.9642:

why i get no love? i was fighting for all the players and was the one who got bashed. i didnt see any +1

:)

I give you a +1 hooma because I agree with everything you have said fwiw. This thread is not constructive or useful at all – it’s just “devs should listen to the people that meet my definition of the top 10% and nobody else” which is, as you have clearly articulated, a bad argument. Glad to see posts from Allie that show they listen and evaluate all suggestions. Even though there are clearly a lot of bad ones, they can get still get people thinking out of the box which is never a bad thing.

you are wrong, devs are listening but not in the right way they dont make a separation between casual and long term players aka balance and casual suggestions, just look at the state of PvP as it is….

They are not doing any effort to talk to top players on a regular basis to talk about balance, and they are not making enough effort to communicate with casual players about other topics.

Just look at sensotix his youtube page on how much effort he puts into this game, its by far more then anything the devs ever did, same with helseth who did his rants, the info there is WAY more constructive then anything from the devs…

Darkdanjal.3401:

Leadfoot.9071:

hooma.9642:

why i get no love? i was fighting for all the players and was the one who got bashed. i didnt see any +1

:)

I give you a +1 hooma because I agree with everything you have said fwiw. This thread is not constructive or useful at all – it’s just “devs should listen to the people that meet my definition of the top 10% and nobody else” which is, as you have clearly articulated, a bad argument. Glad to see posts from Allie that show they listen and evaluate all suggestions. Even though there are clearly a lot of bad ones, they can get still get people thinking out of the box which is never a bad thing.

you are wrong, devs are listening but not in the right way they dont make a separation between casual en long term players aka balance and casual suggestions, just look at the state of PvP as it is….

They are not doing any effort to talk to top players on a regular basis to talk about balance, and they are not making enough effort to communicate with casual players about other topics.

Just look at sensotix his youtube page on how much effort he puts into this game, its by far more then anything the devs ever did, same with helseth who did his rants, the info there is WAY more constructive then anything from the devs…

Ohh, you’re another one of those lucky forum posters who get to go to ANet design/devleopment meetings since you clearly know exactly what they think, do, and discuss. There are a lot of you guys on the forums… how do I get in on that??

Leadfoot.9071:

Darkdanjal.3401:

Leadfoot.9071:

hooma.9642:

why i get no love? i was fighting for all the players and was the one who got bashed. i didnt see any +1

:)

I give you a +1 hooma because I agree with everything you have said fwiw. This thread is not constructive or useful at all – it’s just “devs should listen to the people that meet my definition of the top 10% and nobody else” which is, as you have clearly articulated, a bad argument. Glad to see posts from Allie that show they listen and evaluate all suggestions. Even though there are clearly a lot of bad ones, they can get still get people thinking out of the box which is never a bad thing.

you are wrong, devs are listening but not in the right way they dont make a separation between casual en long term players aka balance and casual suggestions, just look at the state of PvP as it is….

They are not doing any effort to talk to top players on a regular basis to talk about balance, and they are not making enough effort to communicate with casual players about other topics.

Just look at sensotix his youtube page on how much effort he puts into this game, its by far more then anything the devs ever did, same with helseth who did his rants, the info there is WAY more constructive then anything from the devs…

Ohh, you’re another one of those lucky forum posters who get to go to ANet design/devleopment meetings since you clearly know exactly what they think, do, and discuss. There are a lot of you guys on the forums… how do I get in on that??

Im not saying how they think, Im talking about listening to both long term players and casual players in a SEPERATE way and to COMMUNICATE more on a regular basis with both groups

This is in my opinion the whole point of sensotix his topic

This post is quite funny. But I see both sides of the coin here. I don’t PvP at all, but I follow the threads about it in case I ever decide to give it a try.

The biggest problem I have seen in my playing (Started in the BWE) time, is the Devs are trying to do balance patches for three phases of the game. In GW1 that is how it also started, they tried to balance either PvE or PvP and it would mess the other up. The same thing is happening here. I know they have started splitting skills now between the two modes of game play, but it isn’t split enough.

I am not going to offer any suggestion about balance here, because my experience is with PvE and seeing where things could be toned down or raised up there, doesn’t do anything to help PvPer’s since they are going up against someone else with a brain, not AI.

But good players in PvE can still be good players in PvP, even though their LB score isn’t as high as others, and their opinions can still matter more then someone who has been doing it for a long time. Fresh eyes can do wonders on seeing stuff others don’t. But a very good discussion so far.

Darkdanjal.3401:

This is in my opinion the whole point of sensotix his topic

I respect your opinion, but the whole point of this thread was to suggest that the devs should ignore 90% and only listen to the “top 10%” (in quotes because I personally do not believe there is a deterministic measurement in place to even accurately determine this and therefore is completely subjective). I respect Sensotix’s opinion and appreciate his videos and guides as well – I just disagree with the premise of this topic and felt hooma deserved props for calling it out.