Guild Wars 2

My teams keep losing in Stronghold. How can I best help?

Charge the door and spam heroes.

1. Spawn 5 DBs or 1 archer and 4 DBs.
2. Either 4 or all 5 players push down the offensive lane, clear off treb and kill outer guards. Keep DBs alive with cleanses and heals.
3. When the outer gate dies, CC and nuke the NPC guards so they can’t one-shot the DBs. Keep DBs alive until inner gate is down.
4. Graveyard zerg lord until it dies. Mage NPC does a lot of damage, so killing it helps.

As long as 1 DB makes it to inner, you can keep it up and get the gate down. If enemy players are focusing the DBs, they aren’t focusing you, so you can CC and down them easily. Once inner gate is down, the rest of the map doesn’t matter.

Exedore.6320:

1. Spawn 5 DBs or 1 archer and 4 DBs.
2. Either 4 or all 5 players push down the offensive lane, clear off treb and kill outer guards. Keep DBs alive with cleanses and heals.
3. When the outer gate dies, CC and nuke the NPC guards so they can’t one-shot the DBs. Keep DBs alive until inner gate is down.
4. Graveyard zerg lord until it dies. Mage NPC does a lot of damage, so killing it helps.

As long as 1 DB makes it to inner, you can keep it up and get the gate down. If enemy players are focusing the DBs, they aren’t focusing you, so you can CC and down them easily. Once inner gate is down, the rest of the map doesn’t matter.

It would seem the other team would be doing the same exact thing in the other lane, unopposed.

I guess the more relevant question would be: “What can I best do as a single player without taking into consideration what my teammates are doing”?

Laserbolt.6731:

It would seem the other team would be doing the same exact thing in the other lane, unopposed.

Sadly, not many people have figured this out yet. And PUGs don’t like to listen.

But ya, when both sides know to do this, it comes down to who executes it better. If one side slips up and lets a few DBs die to a single guard cleave, they’ve lost. You can delay it a little with pulsing blind fields, since the DBs have a slow attack. I think DBs are affected by Quickness too.

Full-on, premeditated defense with equally skilled players can barely manage to stop it. However, the defenders typically lose the fight in the process of killing all the DBs, so the attacking team can just break off, spawn a few more DBs and finish the job.

Because this strategy is so efficient and easy to execute, stronghold will devolve into a PvE race once it becomes “meta”. Even if you lose the PvE race, the games go by so fast that it doesn’t matter.

DBs die fast once they are near the gate. Not so fast when they are still in the lane, I find.

Depends on your build. I run a WS/NM/BM longbow/sw-axe ranger and I usually spend my time on the defense lane. I figure each persons playstyle will lead them towards a specific lane/area.

As for the above. I find it fairly easy to defend just by being annoying enough that they can’t easily take me out while I kill the doorbreakers. Although I find being good at kiting almost mandatory if your on defense.

I guess I’m not explaining it well…

Here’s the scenario: 5 Doorbreakers and 4-5 players are pushing your base. These attacking players will buff, cleanse, and heal the doobreakers as well as CC’ing, disabling, and killing the defending players. Note that 5 DBs will kill a gate in under 10 seconds once they reach it.

If the defenders focus the DBs, the attacking players will eventually kill some or all of the defenders by the time all the DBs have died. The DBs will also have broken at least one gate. The attackers have the advantage, go back for supply, and spawn more attacking NPCs. The process repeats until the attackers are through the inner gate. Due to the supply depot changes, the defenders can’t really come back.

If the defenders focus the attacking players, the DBs have free reign on the gates. Even under pressure, the attackers can still peel off and kill the inner guards. The DBs break both doors and the attackers just need to respawn and push for the lord. The defenders don’t have time to amass their own NPCs.

Exedore.6320:

I guess I’m not explaining it well…

Here’s the scenario: 5 Doorbreakers and 4-5 players are pushing your base. These attacking players will buff, cleanse, and heal the doobreakers as well as CC’ing, disabling, and killing the defending players. Note that 5 DBs will kill a gate in under 10 seconds once they reach it.

If the defenders focus the DBs, the attacking players will eventually kill some or all of the defenders by the time all the DBs have died. The DBs will also have broken at least one gate. The attackers have the advantage, go back for supply, and spawn more attacking NPCs. The process repeats until the attackers are through the inner gate. Due to the supply depot changes, the defenders can’t really come back.

If the defenders focus the attacking players, the DBs have free reign on the gates. Even under pressure, the attackers can still peel off and kill the inner guards. The DBs break both doors and the attackers just need to respawn and push for the lord. The defenders don’t have time to amass their own NPCs.

I would argue that the DPS race comes into play only after the First gate goes down, from what I’ve seen. This because the First gate is generally only Guarded by 2 Guards which can be easily dealt with by a single player.

If all 5 players summon DB’s at the start, then have 2-3 Players break off to the team’s own first gate while a High Burst (D/P Thief/Power Ranger etc) and a Support (Guard or Engi) head for the enemy gate.
Provided that the enemy runs a Zerg of 5 on your gate, 2-3 people should be enough to slow them down remarkably while your Burst kills the Enemy Guard at the other Team’s first gate. (This might seem impossible, but a Mantra Shatter Mes, a Staff Ele and a GS/H Warr should have enough CC and AoE to hurt the enemy’s advance a lot.)

Then once either team’s First Gate is down, the 3 people previously defending joins the rush towards the enemy’s Lord. MI from Mes and Swiftness from Ele should have the distance scaled in no time.

Of course, this all depends on wether you have a Proper Team Comp for this situation. In PuG matches, Zerging is probably the best tactic to use, since it beats out most splits with relative ease.

At the start of the game dedicate 2 players for defending, two for offence and one for supply/utility.

Defenders: AoE attack 1200 range prefered (ele, necro, engi)
Attackers: high mobility needed also extreme burst and survivability (thief, gua, ranger, warrior)
Supply: mobility and flexibility (mesmer, thief, warrior)

1, Spawn 4 DB and an Archer
2, the attackers should get to the first guards ASAP
3, the Supply runner checks the MID… How many players are there?
4, the supply runner fights (if there is only one) runs to the attackers (if 2-3) or runs to the defenders (if 3+)
5, attackers kill the guards
6, defenders kill the DB’s
7, supply runner now decides: kill the enemy treb (and get help from the defenders if the doorbreakers died) or man their own.
8, if the attackers fail: they should get back to mid (to get some supply) OR check if the base needs help (not both).
9, if defenders fail: they should immediately get back to their position and call for help

These are the hints I can give you…

…sorry that’s all I know so far

TheSwede.9512:

I would argue that the DPS race comes into play only after the First gate goes down, from what I’ve seen. This because the First gate is generally only Guarded by 2 Guards which can be easily dealt with by a single player.

Nope. It starts as soon as enemy players can reach your DBs after running from their spawn. If you only have two people with your DBs, it’s too easy to DPS them down with heavy condi pressure, AoE burst, or an elite like Rampage. Also, you need someone to disable the treb operator, since two treb shots and some heavy DPS in the lane will make quick work of DBs.

Laserbolt.6731:

My teams keep losing in Stronghold. How can I best help?

Depends what you are running, if you are a super bunker guard with lots of CC, then defend your lord and the supplies at the start. Even if just to delay and slow down the opposite team so that your own team gets ahead on the /per time basis.

If you are offense then kill anyone that is straggling, then move onto offense on their lord as soon as you can.

Exedore.6320:

TheSwede.9512:

I would argue that the DPS race comes into play only after the First gate goes down, from what I’ve seen. This because the First gate is generally only Guarded by 2 Guards which can be easily dealt with by a single player.

Nope. It starts as soon as enemy players can reach your DBs after running from their spawn. If you only have two people with your DBs, it’s too easy to DPS them down with heavy condi pressure, AoE burst, or an elite like Rampage. Also, you need someone to disable the treb operator, since two treb shots and some heavy DPS in the lane will make quick work of DBs.

Exactly, but then they’re not using the 5-0 Zerg split. The more Players they dedicate to Killing your DB’s, the less they dedicate to defend their own, however. Different splits is good vs some, but worse against others.

For instance, if you’re running 5 on Zerg (With the DB’s) then the enemy will be able to halt you with 3 people, while you have 0 people attacking and killing the enemy’s DB’s. Losing just a single DB in this scenario means your Gate will go down faster than their Gate.

It’s really more dependant on how your enemy plays than how your team plays.

Some splits and their Pros and Cons (Disclaimer, this is only Before the 1st Gate falls):

DB Escort – Defense:

5-0
Pros: Full-scale Assault, you’ll take down everything in your path in split seconds, including the Gate.
Cons: Nothing on Defense, the enemy won’t have to send more than 2 people to your gate. Vulnerable to a 2-3 Split.

2-3
Pros: Beats out the 5-0 Split (But only if your Defense team is CC heavy) as you can dedicate 2 persons to CC enemy Players and 1 to Treb down the DBs.
Cons: If the enemy dedicates a Burst-y Character, or a Zerg has High Mobility Professions, they will easily Kill of your DB’s and return to their own lane. Vulnerable to a 4-1 split.

3-2
Pros: Beats out the 4-1 split, as you can easily burst down both Guard and Treb quickly.
Cons: With only 2 people on defense, a 5-0 Zerg will mow you down with relative ease unless the difference is skill and/or comp is remarkable.

4-1
Pros: Single man on the Treb, aims to kill the DB’s quickly with quick shots before joining the Zerg in their own Lane. Beats out a 2-3 Split unless the Trebber is squishy.
Cons: A 3-2 Split can ruin your day before you can say “Uncle”. A 5-0 split will mow you down without looking.

TL;DR – 5-0 Beats 3-2 and 4-1 | 2-3 Beats 5-0 | 3-2 Beats 4-1 | 4-1 beats 2-3

I feel like too many people are attempting to defend there lane with there face so to speak.

Working around the group attempting to guard there doorbreakers and maintaining dps uptime on the DB’s themselves is more important than stopping the players. as I mentioned above I main a longbow ranger.

I typically focus down one DB at a time either by going in and out of the gate and making use of rangers rather high recovery speed or by being behind there group and sniping down the DBs one at at time.

If need be you can combo with another player doing hit and run stuff at the gate while you maintain pressure. In the end that team will focus on one of the defending players leaving the other open for short periods of time.

Ive done quite a few games now and this tactic seems to work almost every time.

One thing I will mention. If your going to be on the defense lane dps uptime is more important than actual dps unless your a burst spec (so mesmers and thieves). Outside of those two youl want to make sure your a self sustainable playstyle. If your build completely relies on other people around you to deal damage (bunker guardian) or relies on other people around you for cleanses and sustain outside of your ideal combat length your gonna find yourself pressured off the doorbreakers leaving your gate unprotected.

I will say the most important thing ive found is stopping the first push and then killing the players that are driving the second push (One thing a ranger can do is send a pet like a drake after the doorbreakers while he pressures the enemy player. Drake pets with on swap quickness rip through doorbreakers VERY quickly thanks to there tail swipe and there chain f2s on the marsh and river drakes)

Also as I said above some attacks are more effective at killing doorbreakers through there escorts than others.

Chain/cone attacks. (chain being anything that hits one target and then bounces to the next. Cone being anything that spreads out from the player) are really effective at hitting through body blocking. A mesmers time warp will pretty much stop the skritt AND there guards from preventing you from taking them out thanks to the slow on the skill. Ranger traps are a good way of nuking there health a bit and clumping them together before they reach the gate. Making piercing attacks much more effective.
And a stance hammer warrior is pretty much GG for doorbreakers. Preventing them not only from attacking the door. But also being able to largely ignore enemy players while there dpsing there targets.

TL:DR Defense is possible but it requires some indirect thinking. If you just try to blindly kill the doorbreakers head on odds are your gonna get kittened up. But as long as you do something to negate/limit the enemy players ability to interfere with you for a short time (nearly every class has something like this) you can freely take them out and get away or reengage on a player in order to punish them for entering your base.

Premade wise, I tend to have a team roles pre-determined
1 Runs Supplies
1 Defends our gate
1 Roams Between Mid, Home and Enemy Gate
2 Escorts Door breakers

Keep spawning Door Breakers till the gates are down

Once both gates are down spawn Archers

Roamer should go with the 2 escorters to help clear out the NPCS to make killing the lord a lot easier. The one running supplies should pay attention to the mini map for chances to spawn heroes.

If the other team is being to much on offense, the roamer should rotate back home to help out.

To answer your question more directly, which of those roles best fits you?

I never truly roll with a full premade. But at the start of each match this is what I always tell my team to do;
2 Attack, 2 Defend, 1 Supply runner
Staff Eles, Necros, Guardians, Mesmers Defend
D/D Eles, Engies, Warriors, Rangers, Mesmers- Attack
Mesmers, Rangers, Thieves, ELes – Supply Run

Defending players should man the treb and use it to destroy any incoming door breakers and archers. Forget players and only focus them if there aren’t any doorbreakers around. Without doorbreakers the enemy team cannot progress through the map so removing them swiftly is the key to winning.

Don’t stick feverishly to your roles, your team may need reinforcements at another part of the map. Make sure to always look at your team’s progress and where your enemy is currently pressuring on the map to know where you should and shouldn’t go.

If you break down the first door, just stealth in there and kill the guards, take out the treb and run supply like crazy.

Grabbing a Champion spawn will also distract the enemy team because they’d be too focused on getting the Champ to realize you’re pushing into their base.

There is no most effective role really. Everything has to work like a well oiled machine BUT that being said, a good defence, definitely buys your offense time to push.

I won 90% of my Stronghold matches.

Seems like the big skill is learning to watch the minimap just a few seconds and know pretty much what the enemy is doing and what your team is doing. And where you can most help.

If your team is not defending and they are through your first gate and have three players at the second, you need to get there, and call for some help as well. UNLESS you have their Lord down to about 20% and most of his defenders gone.

Unfortunately, this is still a learning stage and your assigned teammates often have tunnel vision and just do one thing over and over, losing.

Take 5 guardians, drop a line of sanctuary bubbles for the door breakers.

Eurantien.4632:

Take 5 guardians, drop a line of sanctuary bubbles for the door breakers.

And the counter to that is trebuchet. What is a bubble if the bubble is dropped for dead things.

The most common mistake I see in Strongholds are teams that run to defend and don’t ever try to kill their enemy’s lord. I’ve been in matches where we had a clear shot at their lord, the other team hadn’t even gotten our gates down yet, but everyone is screaming about defending and is parked at our own gate. This scenario always results in a lose.

Celtic Lady.3729:

The most common mistake I see in Strongholds are teams that run to defend and don’t ever try to kill their enemy’s lord. I’ve been in matches where we had a clear shot at their lord, the other team hadn’t even gotten our gates down yet, but everyone is screaming about defending and is parked at our own gate. This scenario always results in a lose.

lol so true. I solo broke down both doors in a match and could not get any one to help me with the lord . The other team is just through the outter. took a good 5 min for me to get 2 players to help me kill lord and win.