Guild Wars 2

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

Please add mmr brackets big enough for lopsided matches, but small enough to not let blowouts happen. This would give players actually a chance to improve instead of just getting them stuck because of bad luck. Atm, as soon as you get a bit better and feel like you are on an upward trend, a blowout kills your starting winning streak and sets you up for a downwards spiral.

I know why the difference. Because I learned pvp on one account, my mmr there was not nearly as good as on the other account. But instead of being able to climb, the system sets me up with people of the same mmr against teams with higher mmr. Over and over, because until ruby, those players can grind their way up.

I know this because I actually see the difference. I log in with one account and get players that rush close, cap, run beast, run mid.
On the other account I get teammates that actually know what a sidesplit is and can hold a point against a +2. Of course you can climb more easily with that kind of teammates. And this works until legendary, because everybody can make it to ruby and diamond with grinding and luck, meaning there’s enough fodder to get a winning streak started every time you have the bad luck to get matched against a better team.

/edit:
To be perfectly honest… I wouldnt complain if there were the slightest chance to get my mmr up again in soloqueue. If my carrying a team to a close loss would actually count for something for my mmr. But instead the only thing left for me is to stop playing so I wont absolutely ruin my mmr for next season.
That cant be really what you want?

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Except that it really doesn’t. Because of the dual system of matching by MMR and then fighting within tiers, your ability to win is based 90% on whether the system thinks you should win. If you lose a bad match you should win, your MMR tanks and the system puts you on very bad times and forces your rank lower. If you win when not expected, it shoots your MMR much higher, it puts you on dream-teams, and games are super-easy wins.

The problem with this, is that it doesn’t let you naturally progress to where you are supposed to be always or put you on teams near your actual skill. There is a major flaw in the matchmaking logic (using MMR + pips) that doesn’t allow you to naturally progress to where you should be – instead you get forced towards where the system thinks you should be. This can be seen by the fact that you can be stagnated in a bracket where every match is a blowout – you either get semi competent players and blow the other team out or get people with no clue and get rocked no matter how good you are.

Compare the current system to one based solely on pips: If you are better than your current pip level, you will outperform and move up naturally. You will have SOME bad teams and some great teams, but most will be evenly matched. You will never get stuck in a position where the system tries to force you down tiers b/c of one bad swing in MMR unless you continually play poorly.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

Is it really as black and white as you say? This false perception of attaining “prestige” should not over ride having fun and making people actively hate the game.

I’m stuck in sapphire. I have resigned myself to the fact that I’m unrealistically not going any further. I’m playing meta builds , doing good rotations, trying to give people common sense direction at the start of the match. Is it fair or reasonable that I then get stuck with the absolute dregs of the gw2 pvp community?

I will give you an example. Last night I was playing and a 3man premade joined our team. They said right from the bat they were going to “go to the enemy base and kill the lord”. I sighed and suggested this wasn’t a good strategy. Anyways, the end result is we lost heavily and those 3 people each scored ZERO points.

They also actually suggest I was a “noob” for playing necro and I should just “Shut up and spam wells”.

Are you honestly telling me that a player like me deserves to be joined up with people like this? It is not remotely fun or fair Evan. Something is badly wrong somewhere .

Ruru.1302:

Ithilwen.1529:

@ Evan Lesh

Yes, rewards absolutely need to be grindable.

No, they don’t. The wings should only be accessible to players of the highest caliber.

That may be what you would like to be the case but its not how anet have set up the achievements and indeed across the whole game legendaries are meant to be obtained by anyone if you want to grind enough.

Ideally your league system should both separate players by skill level and provide consistently competitive matches. You want most players to hit a wall somewhere; your highest division should be exclusively for your highest skilled players, not for everyone who had the time to grind so many matches. I think one of the main problems holding the current system back is the inability to drop divisions (as well as tiers in divisions below ruby), which can cause some players to get stuck in a division above where they belong skill-wise.

The other problem is the current reward/achievement system. It’s completely tied to progression, meaning that once you reach the division/tier/whatever that you belong in, the rewards stop and you no longer have any real incentive to continue. Players feel like they hit a wall they can’t pass and that they’re wasting their time trying, so they just stop playing ranked. Obviously higher skilled players should be better rewarded than lower skilled players (as an incentive to improve), but it just feels like bad design for all the rewards to be obtained early on in a season but have the larger portion of your time struggling to advance in matches that are actually competitive go mostly unrewarded.

The current league rewards in general right now feel pretty bland. There’s a backpiece that everyone will work towards, and then some llama’s that PvPers can only show off as they’re afking in queue (no mini’s in matches, for good reason), and then some trans charges that PvPers already have loads of. Honestly it feels like all of that appeals a lot more to PvE type players than PvP players, which would explain all the PvE players coming in and then getting frustrated at the system. In my opinion a good rewards system needs to have both exclusive rewards for the top players as well as rewards that everyone can work towards.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Yasi.9065:

Im sorry Evan, but if this is supposed to be where the majority of players should be, then why are at least 70% of the matches totally frustrating to everybody?

And please, tell me, why did I get to ruby on one account and got stuck there, whereas on another Im now nearly through Diamond?

Where exactly am I supposed to be now… ruby hell or nearly legendary?

Matches should not be volatile when you are in your ‘correct’ division, ideally. I think that is a definite area to improve on. As to why your two accounts are different, I can’t say without digging into your account histories.

Clearly his 2 accounts will have differing mmrs and given the way the system has been set up will lead to differing experiences on each account which will in turn exacerbate the difference in the mmr on the 2 accounts. There have been a ton of similar stories on here

morrolan.9608:

Clearly his 2 accounts will have differing mmrs and given the way the system has been set up will lead to differing experiences on each account which will in turn exacerbate the difference in the mmr on the 2 accounts. There have been a ton of similar stories on here

The current system doesn’t actually put you where you deserve to be, it forces you toward where it THINKS you deserve to be. Its kind of like confirmation bias: if the system thinks your MMR is too low to be where you are, it puts you on teams that are heavily favored to lose. On the flip side, if it thinks you are great (due to high MMR, even if you just got carried in prior matches that boosted your MMR artificially high), it puts you on teams that you almost have to try to screw up to lose.

Just match people randomly by pip range – you will get some bad teams, and some good, but one bad game won’t snowball you into many consecutive as it spirals you down with worse and worse players that you can’t even begin to try and carry. Players that are higher skill than their current level will inevitably progress, but matches will be closer (and naturally more fun) the entire way up the bracket. Lower skill players won’t get carried up b/c the system gives them dream-teams over and over, reinforcing an artificially high MMR and keeping them in the winning graces of match-making.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

If I may make a suggestion? If you want to give people a sense of prestige, promote more high-level tournaments. Maybe not to the scale of this past pro-season, but rather frequent, say, weekly or monthly contests with small in-game prizes. Make these the gateway to the pro-leagues instead of this free-for-all ladder. Those who truly enjoy the competition and want to take pride in pvp can do so without locking a large chunk of the player base out of certain items or out of having fun. If I want a legendary weapon from PvE, I can either do the specific content to make one or go grind out a few thousand gold to buy one. The backpack, however, is on an ever-ticking clock before it disappears forever. People’s attempt at getting it may be adding extra frustration to their efforts to climb through the ranks. Keep in mind, this is coming from someone who genuinely enjoys pvp for the most part, and played it for about a year prior to the launch of leagues. I can’t imagine what it must be like for those who normally don’t like pvp at all. I’m all for expanding the rewards pvp offers, just…. maybe not so exclusively?

On another note, many people may be frustrated because something does seem somehow off with their matchmaking. Yes, people will always tend to inflate their own egos and blame their teammates rather than look for where they might be at fault themselves, but that doesn’t mean there can’t be something off. Case in point, right now I’m in early Ruby. Maybe this is where I’m supposed to be, maybe it isn’t. What bothers me is the VAST spread in the quality of my teammates. Sometimes I get people who genuinely impress me or who at the very least hold their own. Teams that communicate, know what they’re doing, and generally perform pretty well. Other times, and mind you this is in the same tier of the same division, I get people who are utterly horrible. People running far alone and dying at start, people losing every fight, not securing stomps, and so on. Meanwhile, I usually manage to win most of my 1v1s and feel like a respectable presence during teamfights. What bothers me is that somehow the game seems to think I belong with both groups of people at once, which means somebody’s MMR has to be inaccurate. Now, I’m not perfect by any means- trust me, I’ve fought a pro player before, I know I’m well off that mark- but I’ve seen people in my RP guild pvping for the first time do better than some of these guys. Only slight hyperbole.

The matches remain volatile because they were designed to be. Yes, in theory they would eventually balance out. I don’t think that a season is long enough for that to happen.

Meanwhile you also drive away the players who are being stomped.

The current matchmaking system is based on a sound theory. However, that theory will not work in this instance. There are not enough players, motivation or time for the balancing out to happen.

And to be frank, I think many of the players should feel insulted by what is essentially summed up as, “get gud scrub” as a response.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

You keep using this word ‘prestige’ and while I’m sure you understand the meaning of the word I’m not quite sure you understand the context you’re using it in.
This is a link to Twitch for Guild Wars 2 channels and while I have no idea what time of day you’ll check this I am certain there will be 2-3 streamers at this ‘prestige’ level you talk about actually playing the game. This is the section of the community you’re appealing to? The balance is broken, the que times are broken, the HOTM queuing is broken, the mismatch of teams taking place during queuing is broken and you’re worried about a superficial system placed on top of all that?

Beyond all that, as a company you (Anet) made this game appeal to the casual, now you’re rocking in here talking about elite players. Um, what? You (Anet) implemented a system that forces ‘average’ players to regularly get rofl stomped and then punishes them with increasingly bad matches because of it. It’s surprising people have issue with this current matching system? Have you seen Wildstar lately, how did that work out?

Honestly, it’s like watching someone falling out of a wheelchair. The sooner this games dies the better for all concerned.

RlyOsim.2497:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

You keep using this word ‘prestige’ and while I’m sure you understand the meaning of the word I’m not quite sure you understand the context you’re using it in.
This is a link to Twitch for Guild Wars 2 channels and while I have no idea what time of day you’ll check this I am certain there will be 2-3 streamers at this ‘prestige’ level you talk about actually playing the game. This is the section of the community you’re appealing to? The balance is broken, the que times are broken, the HOTM queuing is broken, the mismatch of teams taking place during queuing is broken and you’re worried about a superficial system placed on top of all that?

Beyond all that, as a company you (Anet) made this game appeal to the casual, now you’re rocking in here talking about elite players. Um, what? You (Anet) implemented a system that forces ‘average’ players to regularly get rofl stomped and then punishes them with increasingly bad matches because of it. It’s surprising people have issue with this current matching system? Have you seen Wildstar lately, how did that work out?

Honestly, it’s like watching someone falling out of a wheelchair. The sooner this games dies the better for all concerned.

Prestige isn’t hard to understand. The harder it is to get to legendary, the more prestigious that division becomes. The only thing you and others are arguing is that you think it’s mainly the mmr system screwing you over and not that maybe you could improve your gameplay and eventually climb the divisions.

Browrain.7346:

RlyOsim.2497:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

You keep using this word ‘prestige’ and while I’m sure you understand the meaning of the word I’m not quite sure you understand the context you’re using it in.
This is a link to Twitch for Guild Wars 2 channels and while I have no idea what time of day you’ll check this I am certain there will be 2-3 streamers at this ‘prestige’ level you talk about actually playing the game. This is the section of the community you’re appealing to? The balance is broken, the que times are broken, the HOTM queuing is broken, the mismatch of teams taking place during queuing is broken and you’re worried about a superficial system placed on top of all that?

Beyond all that, as a company you (Anet) made this game appeal to the casual, now you’re rocking in here talking about elite players. Um, what? You (Anet) implemented a system that forces ‘average’ players to regularly get rofl stomped and then punishes them with increasingly bad matches because of it. It’s surprising people have issue with this current matching system? Have you seen Wildstar lately, how did that work out?

Honestly, it’s like watching someone falling out of a wheelchair. The sooner this games dies the better for all concerned.

Prestige isn’t hard to understand. The harder it is to get to legendary, the more prestigious that division becomes. The only thing you and others are arguing is that you think it’s mainly the mmr system screwing you over and not that maybe you could improve your gameplay and eventually climb the divisions.

You should reread what I wrote, I was discussing the wider context of the term.

Also, I didn’t mention a single thing about my own progression.

Ithilwen.1529:

The matches remain volatile because they were designed to be. Yes, in theory they would eventually balance out. I don’t think that a season is long enough for that to happen.

Meanwhile you also drive away the players who are being stomped.

The current matchmaking system is based on a sound theory. However, that theory will not work in this instance. There are not enough players, motivation or time for the balancing out to happen.

I dunno I think it could work if players were put into divisions corresponding to their skill at the start and if the mmr was a reflection of a players skill. But anet won’t start players in advanced divisions because it would muck up their achievement grind and the mmr is based on team not individual performance and is therefore not reliable.

@Evan … match me again with totally clueless people in the last freaking tier of ruby, or a guy with 500 ping and come here and tell me how your matchmaking works and is fully about prestige.

In a division where everyone learned to carry, carrying 4v5 is not really an option.

Also luck trumps prestige in the current matchmake. It’s all about whether you get braindead teammates or skilled ones based on MMR. And since YOUR mmr so poorly represents skill, you are most likely to get baddies on your team versus people who are given a free pass to farm (people who logically sticked to PvP and have superior MMR).

Now … I play this game since headstart. I know the ins and outs of it. There’s nothing that surprises me pvpwise. Even when I lose I know why i lose precisely without even looking at the breakdown (though its always fun to check the 30-40k chill damage yo). My point here being … I’ve always played this precise account. I’ve tested builds on it. I’ve lost … a lot. And now this season starts and i have the kittenty MMR that I do and im constantly, CONSTANTLY matched with bad people. People who see no issue going 1v3 or 1v4. They are bunkers right /o/ they can hold the enemy for like …. 10 seconds. Yaaaaay \o/

^ That’s my soloQ experience. Meanwhile I try to rotate as hard as possible, buuut nobody uses my portals, unless i’ve shouted that the portal is for a lord rush, then everyone hops in, at least that \o/ But what I really wanted to say is that … I +1 fights, a lot. It’s something I learned from my thief on which i have the most games on. Now … imagine this scenario … there’s 2on2 on far node, I know about it and i know there is a guy bunkering mid, so I go far make sure one of the enemies dies and the other has tons of condis I place a portal entry and I start running toward mid to portal bomb that bunker. Solid strategy yes? Well not really, because the 2 guys i went to help died to the one remaining guy, usually a reaper btw. Guess I had to moa him before leaving. But then again I keeped it for the bunker on mid. F&*# me right? I’m a noob that can’t carry \o/ According to your system at least.

P.P: Was last tier in Ruby, 3 pips shy of diamond, now im T5 and 1 pip. Gee thx matchmaking

I was t6 diamond doing well initially, then the system teamed me back to back with the same guy throwing matches non stop. I got a lose streak and now I cannot recover because I am getting newbies non stop.

You can look at my game history and you will understand how crappy the system is. Last season at least I get different teammates to perform with. This season is same teammates consecutively for multiple matches?

Another issue is I got teamed up with people who has zero pips and they were clearing class achievements and dailies in ranked games. To these people losing is nothing, so they just troll the game with nothing to lose.

RlyOsim.2497:

Browrain.7346:

RlyOsim.2497:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

You keep using this word ‘prestige’ and while I’m sure you understand the meaning of the word I’m not quite sure you understand the context you’re using it in.
This is a link to Twitch for Guild Wars 2 channels and while I have no idea what time of day you’ll check this I am certain there will be 2-3 streamers at this ‘prestige’ level you talk about actually playing the game. This is the section of the community you’re appealing to? The balance is broken, the que times are broken, the HOTM queuing is broken, the mismatch of teams taking place during queuing is broken and you’re worried about a superficial system placed on top of all that?

Beyond all that, as a company you (Anet) made this game appeal to the casual, now you’re rocking in here talking about elite players. Um, what? You (Anet) implemented a system that forces ‘average’ players to regularly get rofl stomped and then punishes them with increasingly bad matches because of it. It’s surprising people have issue with this current matching system? Have you seen Wildstar lately, how did that work out?

Honestly, it’s like watching someone falling out of a wheelchair. The sooner this games dies the better for all concerned.

Prestige isn’t hard to understand. The harder it is to get to legendary, the more prestigious that division becomes. The only thing you and others are arguing is that you think it’s mainly the mmr system screwing you over and not that maybe you could improve your gameplay and eventually climb the divisions.

You should reread what I wrote, I was discussing the wider context of the term.

Also, I didn’t mention a single thing about my own progression.

You didn’t have to mention your progression. I’ve seen enough of these posts to know when someone isn’t progressing and proceeds to come to the forums.

There’s absolutely no reason to be rude about it, Peteris.

If the system really worked you would start hitting a wall when you are in piprange to a lot of players that are just more skilled than you.

There are several problems with this.

One problem is, that this system exaggerates mmr. Its like the gap between rich and poor. Someone with an average mmr will fall at one point on one or the other side of the “gap”.
The longer the season runs, the more the gap will widen. You can probably already see trends in the data. MMR dropping for most, mmr rising for some… mmr staying pretty much same for those that left rubyhell behind them.

Another problem is the streak mechanic itself. Thanks to streaks, players will not settle were they “belong” but rather a bit beyond. The system then downadjusts them, but they will take 2-3 others with them.
Add to that, that the system cant downadjust players in ruby t1. They cant drop below ruby. This creates a bottleneck. Now someone with a good mmr will just fastpath around that. Someone with a slightly damaged mmr will get stuck there and his mmr will drop each match he plays. Thats a downward spiral that is nearly impossible to break. The worse your mmr gets, the worse your teammates get, the more you have to work for a win, the more often you will loose, the worse your mmr gets….. at one point this gets unrecoverable.

The most glaring problem though, is really bias. The system settles you where it thinks your mmr belongs. This in turn makes data look nice, because well yeah, of course that player is legendary, he has a high mmr. And of course this player is only ruby, he has only average mmr.
So, the outcome is fixed. You can influence this only by improving your mmr. Getting good alone doesnt work though because you get 4 teammates that arent good. You have to carry them to a few victories. Which in turn means, THEY advance on the ladder by pure luck (getting teamed with someone that “got good”). So now we get 4 teammates again some where they dont belong… well, you see how this will stay volatile for a long, long time.

Browrain.7346:

RlyOsim.2497:

Browrain.7346:

RlyOsim.2497:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

You keep using this word ‘prestige’ and while I’m sure you understand the meaning of the word I’m not quite sure you understand the context you’re using it in.
This is a link to Twitch for Guild Wars 2 channels and while I have no idea what time of day you’ll check this I am certain there will be 2-3 streamers at this ‘prestige’ level you talk about actually playing the game. This is the section of the community you’re appealing to? The balance is broken, the que times are broken, the HOTM queuing is broken, the mismatch of teams taking place during queuing is broken and you’re worried about a superficial system placed on top of all that?

Beyond all that, as a company you (Anet) made this game appeal to the casual, now you’re rocking in here talking about elite players. Um, what? You (Anet) implemented a system that forces ‘average’ players to regularly get rofl stomped and then punishes them with increasingly bad matches because of it. It’s surprising people have issue with this current matching system? Have you seen Wildstar lately, how did that work out?

Honestly, it’s like watching someone falling out of a wheelchair. The sooner this games dies the better for all concerned.

Prestige isn’t hard to understand. The harder it is to get to legendary, the more prestigious that division becomes. The only thing you and others are arguing is that you think it’s mainly the mmr system screwing you over and not that maybe you could improve your gameplay and eventually climb the divisions.

You should reread what I wrote, I was discussing the wider context of the term.

Also, I didn’t mention a single thing about my own progression.

You didn’t have to mention your progression. I’ve seen enough of these posts to know when someone isn’t progressing and proceeds to come to the forums.

The personal attacks man, you have literally no idea who I am. This isn’t an ‘us’ and ‘them’ thing, this is a discussion. Lots of people seem to think they have to white knight this system, which really is just as bad as the git gud people you seem to have issue with. We can just sit here and have a discussion just as easily as attacking eachother for no reason.

Chill or bait, whatever floats your boat but contribute at least.

Evan glad to know I am exactly where you thought I should be in the first place. Perhaps is that us because you implemented a system that virtually guaranteed that would be the case. Interesting philosophy but one that ultimately is not going to do the game much good. Frankly I don’t care a jot about the backpiece and I much preferred the transparency of the MMR ladder system. Season 2 is a bust and I am sure you have the data to show it. How are you going to keep the PVEers playing once the back piece is obtained – I don’t think you will. And you will have lost many PvPers as well. Updating Skyhammer isn’t really going to be enough to keep people playing after this joke of a season.

Peteris.5936:

Browrain.7346:

Oh boy. Someone is mad they can’t progress through sapphire/ruby. Take it all out on one dev, like it’s somehow all his fault.

Actually you are wrong. like completely.
I am bad pvp player as I am new to game and even more new to pvp. I could not care less about those rewards. I want good games with similar bad players as me. And thats is exactly what this so called matchamaking system is NOT providing in any possible way.
As for fault… and whose a hell fault it is?!?!? Of course its devs fault.

I mean, it would be one thing if these matches were close. But they’re not. Not even remotely. When the other team has 400 points and you’re sitting at -100 there is something seriously wrong. And the fact that these matches are consecutive?

I’m not blaming the programmer, I’m blaming the pvp team as a whole, or specifically whoever thought up this system. If your grand scheme is for things to “level out” then perhaps you should make the seasons a little longer so that in 3 months when the system is done putting me in losing groups and using me as a stepping stone for everyone that’s actually managed to mentally combat this crap and persevere long enough to get into a higher division than me, I can actually progress to where I feel I should be.

I shouldn’t have to log onto my necro just to be able to spam fear and cc long enough for my team not to instantly die within the first 2 minutes of the match. (Mainly because the other team has 2 or 3 necros, and dragonhunters with endless pulls into traps.

I don’t know. I’m clearly ranting at a brick wall here. This system is clearly a success for them, which is unfortunate.

At this rate I may never get the last tier to ruby, because I may just lose interest in the game completely. I suppose I should take a break and do something else and hope it gets better eventually, but when you’re that close it’s difficult to just give up and hope it gets better later. There’s no reason it should be this difficult getting one tier, especially when you have countless times when you’ve won 2 games in a row, need one final win, and somehow get placed into a group of people that either don’t know how to rotate, repeatedly die in mid, or have someone that just goes afk halfway through. It’s like the system just decides I’ve had enough wins and puts me in the worst possible group to put me right back to needing 3 wins again or 4 assuming I don’t just stay on a losing streak for 10 games of complete blowouts.

Funny how dev wastes his time to reply to people who generally dont want to improve in the game and blame their team and/or matchmaking, basically being in complete denial about their own poor performance and these people are still unhappy and prefer to remain in denial even after getting their answers.

As for the popular topic of “blowout matches” its pretty simple. It happens because of the human factor: low divisions are full of tilted people who are generally not good at the game so as soon as a single thing goes wrong they become mad and refuse to attempt to change the situation either openly – by going afk, or secretly – by not doing their best (even if their best isnt all that great anyway).

So matches which are actually perfectly balanced end up looking like a complete stomp simply because in the losing team there are regularly 2-4 people who refuse to try once the enemy team becomes ahead by 20 points.

RlyOsim.2497:

Browrain.7346:

RlyOsim.2497:

Browrain.7346:

RlyOsim.2497:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

You keep using this word ‘prestige’ and while I’m sure you understand the meaning of the word I’m not quite sure you understand the context you’re using it in.
This is a link to Twitch for Guild Wars 2 channels and while I have no idea what time of day you’ll check this I am certain there will be 2-3 streamers at this ‘prestige’ level you talk about actually playing the game. This is the section of the community you’re appealing to? The balance is broken, the que times are broken, the HOTM queuing is broken, the mismatch of teams taking place during queuing is broken and you’re worried about a superficial system placed on top of all that?

Beyond all that, as a company you (Anet) made this game appeal to the casual, now you’re rocking in here talking about elite players. Um, what? You (Anet) implemented a system that forces ‘average’ players to regularly get rofl stomped and then punishes them with increasingly bad matches because of it. It’s surprising people have issue with this current matching system? Have you seen Wildstar lately, how did that work out?

Honestly, it’s like watching someone falling out of a wheelchair. The sooner this games dies the better for all concerned.

Prestige isn’t hard to understand. The harder it is to get to legendary, the more prestigious that division becomes. The only thing you and others are arguing is that you think it’s mainly the mmr system screwing you over and not that maybe you could improve your gameplay and eventually climb the divisions.

You should reread what I wrote, I was discussing the wider context of the term.

Also, I didn’t mention a single thing about my own progression.

You didn’t have to mention your progression. I’ve seen enough of these posts to know when someone isn’t progressing and proceeds to come to the forums.

The personal attacks man, you have literally no idea who I am. This isn’t an ‘us’ and ‘them’ thing, this is a discussion. Lots of people seem to think they have to white knight this system, which really is just as bad as the git gud people you seem to have issue with. We can just sit here and have a discussion just as easily as attacking eachother for no reason.

Chill or bait, whatever floats your boat but contribute at least.

Am I wrong? You didn’t really address that. Are you actually progressing through the divisions or are you stuck?

Lexander.4579:

Funny how dev wastes his time to reply to people who generally dont want to improve in the game and blame their team and/or matchmaking, basically being in complete denial about their own poor performance and these people are still unhappy and prefer to remain in denial even after getting their answers.

As for the popular topic of “blowout matches” its pretty simple. It happens because of the human factor: low divisions are full of tilted people who are generally not good at the game so as soon as a single thing goes wrong they become mad and refuse to attempt to change the situation either openly – by going afk, or secretly – by not doing their best (even if their best isnt all that great anyway).

So matches which are actually perfectly balanced end up looking like a complete stomp simply because in the losing team there are regularly 2-4 people who refuse to try once the enemy team becomes ahead by 20 points.

Well perhaps we should group up sometime so I can be blessed with your presence in one of my blowout matches. You might find that you’ve seen a completely different side to this system.

Who knows, maybe the system would favor you and put me into a team that doesn’t repeatedly die in mid while I frantically try to cap one of the two unguarded points. (While 2 or 3 of the enemy team rush over to kill me and my team still manages to lose the group fight in mid.)

cptaylor.2670:

At this rate I may never get the last tier to ruby, because I may just lose interest in the game completely. I suppose I should take a break and do something else and hope it gets better eventually, but when you’re that close it’s difficult to just give up and hope it gets better later. There’s no reason it should be this difficult getting one tier, especially when you have countless times when you’ve won 2 games in a row, need one final win, and somehow get placed into a group of people that either don’t know how to rotate, repeatedly die in mid, or have someone that just goes afk halfway through. It’s like the system just decides I’ve had enough wins and puts me in the worst possible group to put me right back to needing 3 wins again or 4 assuming I don’t just stay on a losing streak for 10 games of complete blowouts.

This is exactly what it feels like is happening to me.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

Personally I feel a good sense of progression in gw2 would be solo q. But that’s none of my business.

Lexander.4579:

Funny how dev wastes his time to reply to people who generally dont want to improve in the game and blame their team and/or matchmaking, basically being in complete denial about their own poor performance

We’ve been through this before the vast majority of people complaining know they aren’t legendary material players.

Lexander.4579:

Funny how dev wastes his time to reply to people who generally dont want to improve in the game and blame their team and/or matchmaking, basically being in complete denial about their own poor performance and these people are still unhappy and prefer to remain in denial even after getting their answers.

This from a guy who spends most of his time QQing about mesmers ………. Maybe you should take a dose of your own medicine from time to time.

cptaylor.2670:

Lexander.4579:

Funny how dev wastes his time to reply to people who generally dont want to improve in the game and blame their team and/or matchmaking, basically being in complete denial about their own poor performance and these people are still unhappy and prefer to remain in denial even after getting their answers.

As for the popular topic of “blowout matches” its pretty simple. It happens because of the human factor: low divisions are full of tilted people who are generally not good at the game so as soon as a single thing goes wrong they become mad and refuse to attempt to change the situation either openly – by going afk, or secretly – by not doing their best (even if their best isnt all that great anyway).

So matches which are actually perfectly balanced end up looking like a complete stomp simply because in the losing team there are regularly 2-4 people who refuse to try once the enemy team becomes ahead by 20 points.

Well perhaps we should group up sometime so I can be blessed with your presence in one of my blowout matches. You might find that you’ve seen a completely different side to this system.

Who knows, maybe the system would favor you and put me into a team that doesn’t repeatedly die in mid while I frantically try to cap one of the two unguarded points. (While 2 or 3 of the enemy team rush over to kill me and my team still manages to lose the group fight in mid.)

I’ve been in plenty of matches where my team would lose 4v4 on mid while I’m busy fighting an enemy at far or close. Im still winning the match however because most of the time I beat the person I’m fighting 1v1 and if my team loses the teamfight at mid I still can keep multiple enemies busy long enough for my teammates to recover and regroup.

So as I said all the issues people face in low divisions are easily explained by 2 factors: poor player performance and negative attitude.

I`m not complaining not whining but :
I have one question tho you made the “hight mmr” ppl progress faster by grouping them together vs lower mmr guys(in a certain range) so they can get to “where they belong” faster right(we all know about those game that are decided before they even start).

But my question is : if they are that good and outskill and outplay most of the players shouldnt they progress and move to where they belong anyway, without you helping them this way and by this creating a onesided loop matches for everyone else that is playing against them and creating frustration by this.

I cant see anything fair for the average players coz the game is rigged to degree by default and they will have to bear the struggle untill all higher mmr players than them progrress way ahead.

Last season the “pro guys” complained about not fun games coz they are matched with bad guys they had to carry.
If they want that much of a challange start matching the hight mmr guys against each other from the start of the season and avoid giving them worse players then them for enemys and teammates?

tl;dr;
you will never be able to make everyone happy whatever you do so maybe make the game fun at least with few patches a season and fixing some stuff that is unfixable from years…..

morrolan.9608:

Lexander.4579:

Funny how dev wastes his time to reply to people who generally dont want to improve in the game and blame their team and/or matchmaking, basically being in complete denial about their own poor performance

We’ve been through this before the vast majority of people complaining know they aren’t legendary material players.

if what you say is true then why people complain they cant progress or that they get matches they cant win? then they should understand that its all logical

Jak Shadow.2864:

Lexander.4579:

Funny how dev wastes his time to reply to people who generally dont want to improve in the game and blame their team and/or matchmaking, basically being in complete denial about their own poor performance and these people are still unhappy and prefer to remain in denial even after getting their answers.

This from a guy who spends most of his time QQing about mesmers ………. Maybe you should take a dose of your own medicine from time to time.

perhaps you should listen to a higher ranked player when he is talking about the state of game balance

Ruru.1302:

Ithilwen.1529:

@ Evan Lesh

Yes, rewards absolutely need to be grindable.

No, they don’t. The wings should only be accessible to players of the highest caliber.

No. Cause it was NOT presentet that way. Higest caliber people could get something more fancy tough. That would be fine.

Lexander.4579:

morrolan.9608:

Lexander.4579:

Funny how dev wastes his time to reply to people who generally dont want to improve in the game and blame their team and/or matchmaking, basically being in complete denial about their own poor performance

We’ve been through this before the vast majority of people complaining know they aren’t legendary material players.

if what you say is true then why people complain they cant progress or that they get matches they cant win? then they should understand that its all logical

Logic was that apparently all high ranked players would clear out of the lower divisions leaving players in their approximate right divisions, yet 4 weeks in and it still hasn’t happened.

Lexander.4579:

perhaps you should listen to a higher ranked player when he is talking about the state of game balance

Higher ranked players have a vested interest in maintaining this system which gives them a great advantage and therefore are biased towards it.

morrolan.9608:

Lexander.4579:

morrolan.9608:

Lexander.4579:

Funny how dev wastes his time to reply to people who generally dont want to improve in the game and blame their team and/or matchmaking, basically being in complete denial about their own poor performance

We’ve been through this before the vast majority of people complaining know they aren’t legendary material players.

if what you say is true then why people complain they cant progress or that they get matches they cant win? then they should understand that its all logical

Logic was that apparently all high ranked players would clear out of the lower divisions leaving players in their approximate right divisions, yet 4 weeks in and it still hasn’t happened.

What makes you think that way?

Lexander.4579:

morrolan.9608:

Lexander.4579:

morrolan.9608:

Lexander.4579:

Funny how dev wastes his time to reply to people who generally dont want to improve in the game and blame their team and/or matchmaking, basically being in complete denial about their own poor performance

We’ve been through this before the vast majority of people complaining know they aren’t legendary material players.

if what you say is true then why people complain they cant progress or that they get matches they cant win? then they should understand that its all logical

Logic was that apparently all high ranked players would clear out of the lower divisions leaving players in their approximate right divisions, yet 4 weeks in and it still hasn’t happened.

What makes you think that way?

If you actually have a point to make then make it, preferably without an appeal to non existant authority.

Jak Shadow.2864:

Lexander.4579:

perhaps you should listen to a higher ranked player when he is talking about the state of game balance

Ah I see. Good to know you have a monopoly on the truth. Let’s hope the dev team listen to you in all things – that would definitely make the game much better.

I play mesmer a lot – but I have won a much higher percentage of games with Rev or Druid this season. Must be becos mesmer is OP.

You are something of a hypocrite frankly, but that is not surprising given your attitude.

i dont care if they nerf or buff mesmer, im skilled enough to get my legend regardless of the game’s balance state and without playing broken classes

i am simply expressing my opinion and it is disappointing that it causes so much hate

Increase all divisions to 50 pips.
Remove rewards completely from tiers / crossing a division.
Buff PvP reward track.
Allow players to lose tiers / division.
When you cross a division you start at 10 pips.
When you lose a divison you start at 40 pips.
Do not reset division / pips on a new season.
Remove cross division achievement from the legendary back piece requirements, this will remove the incentive people have for reaching high division.
Allow us to queue from anywhere. (I would be happy with only hotjoins).
Make higher mmr players start higher up in the season.
Maximum of 2 of 1 class per team.

LordKage.9135:

Increase all divisions to 50 pips.
Remove rewards completely from tiers / crossing a division.
Buff PvP reward track.
Allow players to lose tiers / division.
When you cross a division you start at 10 pips.
When you lose a divison you start at 40 pips.
Do not reset division / pips on a new season.
Remove “cross division” achievement from the legendary back piece requirements, this will remove the incentive people have for reaching high division.
Allow us to queue from anywhere. (I would be happy with only hotjoins).
Make higher mmr players start higher up in the season.

+1 to This remove reward from PvP completely.

I’m in Ruby currently and haven’t played all that much last 2 weeks generally because it’s not a fun experience. I lost my winstreak in Ruby cuz a teammate was farming a class achievement on a class he wasn’t familiar with and was generally useless the whole match and spent his time in chat talking about how bad of an idea it was on his part but he feels forced to do it still… and I haven’t been all that motivated since.
Although if I do get through it I get the Legendary completed.. Or I can be super lazy and just beat Amber next league because all I really need is to cross 1 division. Still have a lot of time left though so meh. The losing tiers thing just pierces anxiety too much. XD

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

I am sorry, you are completely wrong thinking that your MM is making the Ranked system showing skills involved.

Basically, since MMR is used for your team and not for your enemy… if you have good MMR, it will get easier to goes to legendary…

Because the MM is giving you good team mates.

When you have bad MMR, you search to play with others… but only those with bad MMR are seeking it, because those top 20% MMR have it easier in soloq.

MORE… A win into RUBY, DIAMOND or LEGENDARY means nothing. It’s a win versus random team.

It would show SKILL if you will be match versus equal or better MMR opponent. Since, it’s random… being Legendary don’t show you can beat the best. It show you can beat the grinders that put their TIME into it.

To really have value in that GRINDING system, you should show the number of matches played to attain it. So, grinders with 600 matches… will look bad compare to Legendary players with 200 matches or less….

Please, put the GRIND on rewards and give back the RANK to skills.

If you beat GREAT players, you should rise, if you are beaten by lower players, you should go down.

Other wise… Diamond and Legendary should get a hard limit on MMR to get access to.

And all matches from there should be MMR vs MMR.

From there, Diamond you should be secure (not going back down on division) but all others from Emerald to ruby should get division demotions.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

I know you would like to think it works that way but it doesnt. Since you have a decided mmr from start it means that people get paired vs higher mmr and lower. That means personal accomplishment can never take you further because youre stuck in mmr hell to always get people from your mmr range vs HIGHER mmr. Youre basically saying all pve’ers should just stop playing leagues because they will never get their legendary backpack with this system. Next time, dont hide a legendary behind pvp. On the other hand, if mmr was reset for everybody, then it would show more of individual skill because every team would be mixed with everything vs everything and the best would dig their way out.

Basically you have decided already where poeple belong before the leagues even start. Come on Anet :/ Theres no room for personal development then.

Ithilwen.1529:

@ Evan Lesh

In addition, teaming is the only practical means to get the upper divisions. I strongly suspect that was intended. So, in reality, players skills are not being tested so much as social skills and the ability to choose stackable classes and builds. Witness the number of complaints about the quality of play in Diamond/legendary.

Fixed: teaming is the only practical means for below average MMR players to get the upper divisions.

Here is how you fix matchmaking and division issues in one simple fix.

Honesty, what needs to happen is just 1 big indefinite length division with checkpoints.
When you reach the pip checkpoint, your display badge changes. I have 60 pips, so I am now considered diamond for example.
If you lose pips and fall below that checkpoint, your badge will revert to the old one. I lost a match and fell to 59 pips. 60 pips is the diamond threshold so now my badge shows as ruby,

No more hard barriers. I can fall from diamond to sapphire if I keep playing poorly.

You can still have the tiers where matchmaking attempts to match certain tier players but just have one big floating division. pips 60-80 are considered diamond. MM will attempt to match me against players with 60 pips +/- 5 pips within rank initially and expands as the timer goes.

Teams are randomly sorted. Pips are the metric so anyone with 60 pips is fair game on either team. Do not place all the better or lower pips on one side.
Matches become more even.

Have every person start somewhere around 10-20% of the pips. Then you can actually fall initially or climb. Season begins, you have 20 pips and start in the emerald tier. fall below 15 pips, rank demotes to amber. get it back and rank changes again.

This is the best way to ensure fair matches at each level. A variable gray scale instead of hard boundaries.

Rewards winning, does not prevent people from being stuck in a tier they cannot actually sustain.

I forgot to mention, the variable pip win loss scale needs to be active. But only if matchmaking takes into account professions as well.

Balance the professions. You’ll be dealing with 4 birds with the one stone:

- Less people will complain about class stacking
- Less people will complain about snowball matches
- Less people will complain about profession imbalance
- Less people will complain about their profession being neglected

It’s win/win for you.

The idea for match making this season actually works as intended if you begin play on day one of a season opening, keep playing about 10 matches a day and don’t skip any days of play. However, the idea for match making this season is broken and completely dysfunctional concerning players who begin play late in the season or who aren’t able to play often.

Let’s say you were Legendary division during season 1 or even Diamond. If you had logged in and played all day during the first day of season 2 and each day after, you would have been able to ride the rofl stomp match making wave while all of the other players of your MMR were still with you in the early divisions “this means the match making would be working as intended and will place you in stronger teams to quickly put you back where you should be”. But if you were unable to log in for the first two weeks of season 2 or only able to run a couple matches day, you will eventually find yourself stuck in the Ruby division with only Ruby level MMRs to que with, while the others of your actual MMR have transcended back to Diamond/Legendary. This means that you will be in contestation vs. these many possible situational problems that Ruby level MMRs make, that Legendary players do not, as you try to climb out of the Ruby hell: “the first division where you can lose tiers due to bad matches”

• Rolling teams of: Warriors, DHs, Thieves, Mesmers vs. a better meta stack.
• Players refusing to swap or plainly not knowing how to play more than one class.
• Players insisting on playing that Warrior because they are working on achievements.
• Players making detrimental errors in rotations that throw a match instantly.
• Players that simply refuse to listen to any common sense what so ever.

These situational problems heavily decide match outcomes. No matter how good of a player you are or how hard you can carry, no one can carry a team of: Warrior, DH, Thief, Mesmer against: Rev, Rev, Tempest, Reaper or a team of players who refuse to listen to common sense /t chat calls.

The above Ruby hell situations are something that high MMR players who began play on day one, rarely had to experience if they experienced at all, as they rode the MMR wave with others of their high MMR. This means that they end up back in late Diamond/early Legendary, where players are much more reasonable and match outcomes end up being much more skill based than “situational factor based” because players who are good, that try hard, are willing to swap and generally play for wins before achievements/dailies.

The point being is: that a good player who began his run a bit late in season 2 is heavily punished with this current match making. He should eventually be able to climb back to his old positioning but it’s going to take a hell of a lot longer than if he would have been able to ride the MMR wave from day 1. A good player who began play on day 1 and kept up in progression with others of his actual MMR will not nearly as often be expected to carry a match of bad players as the good player who began play late, who is now stuck in Ruby hell. The good Ruby player will be expected to carry teams of intermediates almost each and every match, through their bad decisions in builds played and apathy towards communication, something that we all know is exceedingly difficult to do in GW2. Most of the time he won’t be able to do it and his match outcomes will not be decided by his ability to carry a team or the actual skill of his team mates in general, no his match outcomes will be like a gamble, majorly decided upon which team has the better comp. This will ultimately damage his MMR and keep good players in bad places.

Q: What is the problem here?
A: It is division pip progression as a reward grind, that in no way reflects actual MMR but still is used to place your match making.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Here is how you fix matchmaking and division issues in one simple fix.

Honesty, what needs to happen is just 1 big indefinite length division with checkpoints.
When you reach the pip checkpoint, your display badge changes. I have 60 pips, so I am now considered diamond for example.
If you lose pips and fall below that checkpoint, your badge will revert to the old one. I lost a match and fell to 59 pips. 60 pips is the diamond threshold so now my badge shows as ruby,

No more hard barriers. I can fall from diamond to sapphire if I keep playing poorly.

You can still have the tiers where matchmaking attempts to match certain tier players but just have one big floating division. pips 60-80 are considered diamond. MM will attempt to match me against players with 60 pips +/- 5 pips within rank initially and expands as the timer goes.

Teams are randomly sorted. Pips are the metric so anyone with 60 pips is fair game on either team. Do not place all the better or lower pips on one side.
Matches become more even.

Have every person start somewhere around 10-20% of the pips. Then you can actually fall initially or climb. Season begins, you have 20 pips and start in the emerald tier. fall below 15 pips, rank demotes to amber. get it back and rank changes again.

This is the best way to ensure fair matches at each level. A variable gray scale instead of hard boundaries.

Rewards winning, does not prevent people from being stuck in a tier they cannot actually sustain.

I forgot to mention, the variable pip win loss scale needs to be active. But only if matchmaking takes into account professions as well.

In promoting the grind your Wins to legendary Ranking system, you forgot to remove the base your team on MMR versus random people of pips range.

A grinding ranked based system should not use MMR at all.

So Hard Carry, will have to do it with bad players. Not the other way around. (and really, the high MMR that got hard carry at high MMR would be at their proper place again)

IMO, gw2 spvp is a skill based games and it would need to get skill based RANKING.

Since it cater to casual that have a life, a work and a family, I think that ranking over SKILL would be better than on GRINDS. (with a good decay system, not playing a week is too much for a competitive skill based system)

I hate the mix messages of Gw2 is great for casual gamers playing 10 hours a week but doing a grind based ranking system that ask 30h/w to be effective.