Ruby division makes people hate PvP
Morale of the story; allow division/tier drops.
That would only result in many people outright quitting. Good luck with your match queue times then, especially in higher divisions.
Why would they quit?
this should be obvious!
Well, no. It sounds like you’re saying people who pvped only for rewards/badges and who don’t actually care about improving and facing stronger opponents would quit the game mode.
That doesn’t sound like an issue to me.
No I don’t meant that at all – those trying their hardest to improve and being becoming completely demoralized even more so now than they are and therefore quitting which I can see happening as pvp loses its appeal and the playerbase reduces even further
Why would they become demoralized and quit from losing divisions? If they were supposed to be in that division they can make their way up again. If they are improving, then they will advance. If they don’t belong in that division, they need to go back down.
People on LoL don’t become demoralized and quit when they drop from silver back to bronze. Or if they do, the game doesn’t need players like them anyways.
Morale of the story; allow division/tier drops.
That would only result in many people outright quitting. Good luck with your match queue times then, especially in higher divisions.
Why would they quit?
this should be obvious!
Well, no. It sounds like you’re saying people who pvped only for rewards/badges and who don’t actually care about improving and facing stronger opponents would quit the game mode.
That doesn’t sound like an issue to me.
No I don’t meant that at all – those trying their hardest to improve and being becoming completely demoralized even more so now than they are and therefore quitting which I can see happening as pvp loses its appeal and the playerbase reduces even further
Why would they become demoralized and quit from losing divisions? If they were supposed to be in that division they can make their way up again. If they are improving, then they will advance. If they don’t belong in that division, they need to go back down.
People on LoL don’t become demoralized and quit when they drop from silver back to bronze. Or if they do, the game doesn’t need players like them anyways.
don’t worry I don’t think there will be that many players left for you to worry about
don’t worry I don’t think there will be that many players left for you to worry about
It’s cute how you think pvp hasn’t managed to sustain itself for years before leagues drew in all the PvE achievement grinders.
then why did Anet feel the need to pull in pve achievement grinders to pvp if it was so self sustainable – why not just have left to the pvper’s!! why have pve rewards in pvp
then why did Anet feel the need to pull in pve achievement grinders to pvp if it was so self sustainable – why not just have left to the pvper’s!! why have pve rewards in pvp
Why do you assume that it’s supposed to be a PvE reward and intended only for PvErs?
then why did Anet feel the need to pull in pve achievement grinders to pvp if it was so self sustainable – why not just have left to the pvper’s!! why have pve rewards in pvp
Why do you assume that it’s supposed to be a PvE reward and intended only for PvErs?
I meant to say it can be used in both pve and pvp
People on LoL don’t become demoralized and quit when they drop from silver back to bronze. Or if they do, the game doesn’t need players like them anyways.
LoL population is much, much bigger, so it’s no problem to them.
It’s cute how you think pvp hasn’t managed to sustain itself for years before leagues drew in all the PvE achievement grinders.
It’s cute that you think GW2 hardcore pvp population is self-sustainable. If not for the “dabblers” and “reward farmers” it would have been in trouble long ago.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
From my experience:
I took a break from the game for about 3 months and returned about a week ago, with about a week and a half left before the end of the season. I managed to get from Amber to Legendary in about 7 days totally YoloQing, with less than 10 losses during that entire process. Half of those losses were in mid-high diamond.
Most of my matches from Amber→Mid-Diamond were complete blowouts. On one hand, that is perfectly reasonable; assuming that I am indeed a player deserving to be in Legendary, then I SHOULD be dominating matches at the lower tiers. Logically too, the games should get closer as I approach to my “true” tier: this was indeed what happened, as the games from mid-diamond onward started to become a lot closer.
On the other hand, from the perspective of the people who I was matched with from Amber→Mid-Diamond, it would seem very unfair that they were put in blowout matches. This makes it very hard to evaluate the performance of the algorithm. What it seems to be doing well, from my experience, is allowing people who clearly do not belong in that skill bracket to climb up very quickly. Yet, it seems to be using the average player in a particular division as “fodder” to allow these players to move onward at a much faster pace. Thus, it depends on what you value more: Distinguishing players, or allowing everyone to progress?
Of course, the fact that you could be paired with teammates that are much worse than you are could obscure your true skill level. For some reason, from Amber-Mid Diamond, I was very rarely paired with people who were totally clueless, at least relative to that division. Not sure why that is the case. The best advice I can offer to those stuck in MMR hell is to:
a) Multi-class. Play at least 2, preferably 3, classes that fill different roles.
b) I found that carrying a weak team is actually possible from Amber-Mid Ruby, assuming that the skill differential is big but not insurmountable. Scrapper is probably your best bet at a carry profession.
c) In a worst case scenario, find a couple of trustworthy people to queue with. Once you start winning with those people you should get out of mmr hell.
d) Off peak hours are bad for solo-queuing. From my experience, the quality of teammates varies very greatly when you solo-queue during these hours.
All in all, I actually preferred this season’s MMR system to last season’s, which really was a pain.
this thread is everything wrong with pvp
LoL population is much, much bigger, so it’s no problem to them.
It’s not a population issue, it’s a player attitude issue.
It’s cute that you think GW2 hardcore pvp population is self-sustainable. If not for the “dabblers” and “reward farmers” it would have been in trouble long ago.
What part of my post suggested I was referring to the hardcore population? I’m hardly a hardcore PvPer, but even I recognize the hypocrisy of all these players who barely ever dabbled in PvP before, throwing hissy fits and threatening to leave because they couldn’t grind out a few rewards.
Shockingly, people were playing ranked PvP before leagues and their associated rewards came along. Provided Anet hasn’t driven them away with awful balancing and matchmaking, these players will still be around.
Add to the fact that everyone knows divisions and badges don’t exactly correlate with skill, so why would these players suddenly decide to quit the game mode just because you could drop divisions?
’The issue is division locks.
Up till ruby its doable for everyone since there are so many safeguards that prefent u from losing tiers or divisions. So ruby ends up being the division with the biggest difference in skillevel.
Good players will easily get out of ruby tho.
LoL population is much, much bigger, so it’s no problem to them.
It’s not a population issue, it’s a player attitude issue.
It’s cute that you think GW2 hardcore pvp population is self-sustainable. If not for the “dabblers” and “reward farmers” it would have been in trouble long ago.
What part of my post suggested I was referring to the hardcore population? I’m hardly a hardcore PvPer, but even I recognize the hypocrisy of all these players who barely ever dabbled in PvP before, throwing hissy fits and threatening to leave because they couldn’t grind out a few rewards.
Shockingly, people were playing ranked PvP before leagues and their associated rewards came along. Provided Anet hasn’t driven them away with awful balancing and matchmaking, these players will still be around.
Add to the fact that everyone knows divisions and badges don’t exactly correlate with skill, so why would these players suddenly decide to quit the game mode just because you could drop divisions?
again I say if its so sustainable then why did anet seek to bring in all the pve population with the lure of AP’s and rewards – blame them if you think pvp was fine before – why change!
It’s funny people draw comparisons to LoL since they’re complaining a lot about Dynamic Queue (which is same as what we have as in premade and solo mix) and losing a lot of players due to that since you can smurf/buy carry etc.
FOR THE GREEEEEEEEEEEEN
I’m glad I stopped caring for this game.
I’m glad I stopped caring for this game.
I’m more feeling like this myself definitely don’t even care now when I enter pvp matches its got that bad
I have not queued in a while. Last season due to personal issues I had very modest amount of games played and sat in ruby solo. This season I skipped out entirely but I do consider getting back in on the next (although status quo, I have little motivation while the specs I want to play are underwhelming right now. And slightly glowy wings I need gift of fortune for isn’t enough to entice me) So my opinion may be bias or uninformed.
I also need to disclaim that I have not read the entire thread, but I get the general feeling of disappointment from those against the system is that people want:
1. Have their personal skill affect their ladder more than be rated against their team (pug or otherwise) which I can kind of understand, the feeling of the game and pacing is very different from LoL or Dota. A team bringing down your win streak feels worse here for some reason I cannot adequately analyze but I’m more willing to blame the game type.
2. Have their main few specs be viable and fun to play.
I realize this is a team based game, but with the consistently restrictive metas that over emphasize their apex predators along with the reliance on teams to conform, it’s just likely to create a subpar experience that doesn’t feel rewarding if you don’t progress.
One could argue matchmaking determining your team means they are only as good as you are. But you still get legendary rank players from last or this season (whom you’d expect to be better than ruby and diamond) who can’t 1v1 their favorable counter matchups and lose decaps so I dunno. It’s even more likely to have this on lower tiers and it snowball the match.
“I control time and space; you can’t break free.~”
“Maybe I was the illusion all along!”
“Maybe I was the illusion all along!”
again I say if its so sustainable then why did anet seek to bring in all the pve population with the lure of AP’s and rewards – blame them if you think pvp was fine before – why change!
I thought we already established this. You yourself said:
it can be used in both pve and pvp
You realize PvPers also play PvE too right? You realize a lot of PvPers also enjoy raids right?
Do you also realize many players have been asking for exclusive rewards that display their achievements in certain content. That is what Anet delivered. Fractal players get their leaderboard/backpiece. Raiders get their exclusive raid skins and titles. PvE players get their legendary collections. PvPers get their badges and backpiece. And I’m sure WvWers will get something…
This doesn’t mean Anet is actively trying to “bring in” players from other parts of the game.
Now please explain to me why people who normally play PvP will suddenly for no reason will decide to quit once they can lose ranks. I can understand why a PvE gloryhound would, but why would a PvP player who cares about strong opponents, improving themselves and enjoying the game mode suddenly quit because they can drop divisions?
You severely overestimate the population of “real pvpers”.
FOR THE GREEEEEEEEEEEEN
You severely overestimate the population of “real pvpers”.
I mean, unless everyone quit the game when HoT launched, it should still exist. Who do you think was playing ranked PvP before leagues? You know, that 5 month gap between the last leaderboard season and Oct 23rd. That time when there was no extra reward in playing ranked except avoiding courtyard, skyhammer and spirit watch?
Well I’m just looking at it from my perspective of 8-20 min queues in the current system and I don’t want it to be any longer. You might say there’s a decent population but my queue times do not reflect that at all.
FOR THE GREEEEEEEEEEEEN
Losing divisions would just be annoying unless the rewards increased enough to reward the inconvenience. Even then though, bench marks like that are a point of accomplishment meant to be permanent.
For example, would you like to lose experience and mastery levels in pve if you get a bad raid group and die a lot? Ofcourse not, once you’ve achieved it you achieved it. “Well, if you are a good gamer you can earn those levels back and if you don’t want to re-earn them then you don’t belong in pve anyway” Sorry, just a stab at the comments I’ve read in this thread up until now. Sounds like someone trying way too hard to sound cool.
Really, there’s no need to break it up into divisions, tiers, and pips if there are no stable benchmarks in the process. It might as well just be a giant tier if that’s the case.
It could just be one giant tier 175 pips long, why not xD. I had a few rough moments getting to legend, but all in all its not like the hardest thing to do. I know people that can’t get out of emerald. I’ve taken some of them and Q’d up with them and took them to ruby using alt accounts. Would of went further but they were happy with ruby. I do feel for those who get stuck though and for them maybe the losing of tiers could be saved for only Legend Division players who are trying to repeat it for the leader boards.
Ruby and Diamond could have tiers 10-15 pips long to keep it from being too easy or too hard. Anyone who finds that too easy could just grind out legend division and lose/gain tiers as fate decides.