Guild Wars 2

@OP:

Do this instead:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/The-secret-to-a-fun-solo-queue

Liewec.2896:

it takes a special kind of stubbornness to ignore the majority of the playerbase like Anet are doing on the Skyhammer subject.

what do they hope to gain by leaving in a map that most of us despise?
at this point they can’t hide under the excuse that its only a vocal minority that hate this map, it is evident every time the map rotation gets to skyhammer in hotjoin and almost everybody leaves.

I think the devs are off playing a different NCsoft game.

-___________________________________________-

Remove skyhammer or not to remove skyhammer. put in your votes now

Do you have any other map to replace? No? Here is the answer.

theName.9623:

Do you have any other map to replace? No? Here is the answer.

Why does there have to be 6 maps?

Xista.7391:

Why does there have to be 6 maps?

Why not?

theName.9623:

Xista.7391:

Why does there have to be 6 maps?

Why not?

cause skyhammer is a skyhammer to much

Romek.4201:

cause skyhammer is a skyhammer to much

That’s map rotation problem, not with the map.

by now i hope they’d realize that we like simple maps, if they try to hard to “jazz it up” it just becomes annoying.
every NPC, every environmental hazard, every big-oneshot-from-half-the-map-away weapon they add, all of these things ruin a map.

its the reason maps like Foefire and Forest are never complained about, they’re nice big and simple and there are no troll builds that can abuse niche mechanics like in skyhammer.

so anet if you’re reading, learn from the past, keep it simple, no more skyhammer nonsense.

though i would like them to add a 3 point (in triangle layout) map with an arena style pit in the middle where each kill grants more points so it’d be a mashup of conquest and team deathmatch and the teams can decide what to focus on.
obviously the pit would need some sort of forcefield over it to stop trolls from standing on the outside and nuking people within.

oh but back on topic, i think we all (read majority) feel that skyhammer needs removing from rotation.

I would say no.
Just stay away from holes and dodge/put stability on if you are in risky region of the map.
However, I don’t like skyhammer in skahammer map
I think there should be only one feature in each map and Skyhammer map has Mobility[Jump pods + Removable Holes] + Skyhammer.

Demonoid.1974:

We need to start a petition to for this!

But the people that luv skyhammer don’t roam the forums to qq so they can’t see the petition movement!

Skyhammer and Spirit Watch are weird. They both have the three side points and a massively more important secondary objective. That means that you need to split to four “points” at pretty much all times. That makes rotations a good bit harder, with communication being more important. For that reason, they might be better in team queue… wtf am I saying. The maps suck. plsno

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

Skyhammer and Spirit Watch are weird. They both have the three side points and a massively more important secondary objective. That means that you need to split to four “points” at pretty much all times. That makes rotations a good bit harder, with communication being more important. For that reason, they might be better in team queue… wtf am I saying. The maps suck. plsno

but… l2p noob… lelelel

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

Skyhammer and Spirit Watch are weird. They both have the three side points and a massively more important secondary objective. That means that you need to split to four “points” at pretty much all times. That makes rotations a good bit harder, with communication being more important. For that reason, they might be better in team queue… wtf am I saying. The maps suck. plsno

The reason they’re so bad in soloq is because the secondary objectives (and on skyhammer most of the map) are much easier to deal with for certain classes – so while the overall balance aim in sPvP is to make nodefights fairer, it tends to ignore things like orbrun Warriors (whoosh!) and… everything Skyhammer.
Soloq matches are already heavily influenced by class balance, and when you add maps like these it just becomes Reroll Wars 2.

I think it was Five Gauge who said this recently, but if the map has portions of it that can be abused by a complete build change, that’s an issue. For Spirit Watch, it’s high mobility orb runners. For Skyhammer, it’s people changing to CC builds to get free kills.

I agree with everyone!

c’mon guys, lets get it to 1000!
for narnia!

either you fall and instantly respawn or the death doesn’t give points. I’m sorry but this thread has gone on long enough. remove the kitten map and never bring back push pull to the game again. I’m sick of people trolling thinking they are god mode because i can’t really control my heal skill since i need to redirection myself so i don’t roll off the map. please end my soloq trolling days

guys stop mwith the idea of a Petition
The Forum rules dont allow it and anet will never take it serious because they already know that everyone hates this map.

Why this map is still in soloQ could have two reasons:
1) they dont care
2) they are working on one of the maps we saw months ago in a stream about pvp map creation and intend to replace skyhammer with the new one.

About that time of year to get some infraction points; Skyhammer is a ridiculous map that caters to classes with crowd control and pulls. It is completely ridiculous when people camp the Sky Cannon and pull/push you off repeatedly. The cannon is ridiculously overpowered as well damage-wise. Just wanted to vent.

>:{

ikr. I haven’t been infracted in like a week. Come on ANET!

As a ranger, or a guardian, or a thief, or… wait a second, what class doesn’t have a crowd control ability that can pull/push you off an edge in Skyhammer?

Every class has a way to knock you off. Some enjoy shorter cooldowns or more total cooldowns than others. Some have more stability available than others. Both are excellent ways to take control of the Skyhammer cannon, which is appropriately powerful and should not be nerfed in damage in any way, considering a healing guardian can easily stand in its fire.

Controlling an enemy’s physical position instead of just their ability to position themselves is a mechanic that is not unique to Guild Wars 2, but does play a larger role in this game than many others of the same genre. Skyhammer is not the only example of this, it may just be the most well-known place to exploit such mechanics to one’s obvious advantage.

This game does not need less Skyhammer. It needs more. We need more maps that give players a way to leverage specific skills or builds in unique ways to gain an advantage. The only problem with Skyhammer is that the right hit from any relevant point on the map can send you off the edge. Even B isn’t completely safe from instant death, but I think if someone causes you to fall from B to your death they deserve the credit.

Without Skyhammer, what is sPvP? Boring. Sure it’s fun when you first start playing it, and sometimes you get in a good fight but in the end the objective is exactly the same in every single sPvP map in this game: territories. There are mechanics that help you score points faster. There are mechanics that make it easier to hold territories. But ultimately, sPvP is territories.

Where is capture the flag? Hot potato? What about soccer, so we ckittene all those knockback moves on something that doesn’t whine in map chat every time it gets hit by them?

And most of all, where is death match? I don’t mean kill-as-many-as-you-can-for-points, I mean something meaningful where you pit two teams against each other and the last team with at least one member still alive wins.

camp point B, problem solved.

To be honest the point most people bring up to “prove” that skyhammer shouldn’t be in soloq is that some classes are way better on this map than other ones. While this is certainly true, it’s also true for other maps. Teams with a lot of mobility (thieves and mesmers) have a pretty big advantage on khylo (porting up to clocktower, portal to treb stuff) while on legacy bunkerish setups have a big advantage due to the mid point being so big and easy to keep neutral and the ways between the points and the spawn being so short that it’s very easy to reinforce points and hold them (neutral) even when you’re outnumbered. Last ESL weekly where I played as a sub in 55hp monks against cheese mode was a prime example of that (two very clear wins on forrest and khylo, got stomped on legacy).

That being said the majority seems to be convinced that skyhammer shouldn’t be in soloq. It’s such an easy change to make that would make a lot of people happy or at least less angry so I don’t really see why they aren’t doing that.

While I personally think that a lot of people exaggerate a lot when talking about this map I would be fine with it getting removed since the majority of the community seems to hate it and ANet listening to the community would be a good sign.

adozu.6398:

camp point B, problem solved.

Lose.

Sense of accomplishment non-existent.

Orion.3812:

As a ranger, or a guardian, or a thief, or… wait a second, what class doesn’t have a crowd control ability that can pull/push you off an edge in Skyhammer?

Every class has a way to knock you off. Some enjoy shorter cooldowns or more total cooldowns than others. Some have more stability available than others. Both are excellent ways to take control of the Skyhammer cannon, which is appropriately powerful and should not be nerfed in damage in any way, considering a healing guardian can easily stand in its fire.

Controlling an enemy’s physical position instead of just their ability to position themselves is a mechanic that is not unique to Guild Wars 2, but does play a larger role in this game than many others of the same genre. Skyhammer is not the only example of this, it may just be the most well-known place to exploit such mechanics to one’s obvious advantage.

This game does not need less Skyhammer. It needs more. We need more maps that give players a way to leverage specific skills or builds in unique ways to gain an advantage. The only problem with Skyhammer is that the right hit from any relevant point on the map can send you off the edge. Even B isn’t completely safe from instant death, but I think if someone causes you to fall from B to your death they deserve the credit.

Without Skyhammer, what is sPvP? Boring. Sure it’s fun when you first start playing it, and sometimes you get in a good fight but in the end the objective is exactly the same in every single sPvP map in this game: territories. There are mechanics that help you score points faster. There are mechanics that make it easier to hold territories. But ultimately, sPvP is territories.

Where is capture the flag? Hot potato? What about soccer, so we ckittene all those knockback moves on something that doesn’t whine in map chat every time it gets hit by them?

And most of all, where is death match? I don’t mean kill-as-many-as-you-can-for-points, I mean something meaningful where you pit two teams against each other and the last team with at least one member still alive wins.

So what you’re saying is PVP needs more “environment” ? sure! lets add lava to some pvp maps to pull people into that and get that silly op pve burn. How about more mobs? It’s unfair that i can only respawn off of players. while we are at it can i get nodes so i can do my daily gatherer in pvp also? and while we are at it, lets make it like pokemon, and bring in 1 hit ko attacks!

(dear op be prepared for this to be moved but i agree with you, kITtEn skihammur)

gartz.7013:

Orion.3812:

As a ranger, or a guardian, or a thief, or… wait a second, what class doesn’t have a crowd control ability that can pull/push you off an edge in Skyhammer?

Every class has a way to knock you off. Some enjoy shorter cooldowns or more total cooldowns than others. Some have more stability available than others. Both are excellent ways to take control of the Skyhammer cannon, which is appropriately powerful and should not be nerfed in damage in any way, considering a healing guardian can easily stand in its fire.

Controlling an enemy’s physical position instead of just their ability to position themselves is a mechanic that is not unique to Guild Wars 2, but does play a larger role in this game than many others of the same genre. Skyhammer is not the only example of this, it may just be the most well-known place to exploit such mechanics to one’s obvious advantage.

This game does not need less Skyhammer. It needs more. We need more maps that give players a way to leverage specific skills or builds in unique ways to gain an advantage. The only problem with Skyhammer is that the right hit from any relevant point on the map can send you off the edge. Even B isn’t completely safe from instant death, but I think if someone causes you to fall from B to your death they deserve the credit.

Without Skyhammer, what is sPvP? Boring. Sure it’s fun when you first start playing it, and sometimes you get in a good fight but in the end the objective is exactly the same in every single sPvP map in this game: territories. There are mechanics that help you score points faster. There are mechanics that make it easier to hold territories. But ultimately, sPvP is territories.

Where is capture the flag? Hot potato? What about soccer, so we ckittene all those knockback moves on something that doesn’t whine in map chat every time it gets hit by them?

And most of all, where is death match? I don’t mean kill-as-many-as-you-can-for-points, I mean something meaningful where you pit two teams against each other and the last team with at least one member still alive wins.

So what you’re saying is PVP needs more “environment” ? sure! lets add lava to some pvp maps to pull people into that and get that silly op pve burn. How about more mobs? It’s unfair that i can only respawn off of players. while we are at it can i get nodes so i can do my daily gatherer in pvp also? and while we are at it, lets make it like pokemon, and bring in 1 hit ko attacks!

(dear op be prepared for this to be moved but i agree with you, kITtEn skihammur)

It’s taking more time for the forum moderators to move these topics than it is to remove Skyhammer from soloQ.

Just remove Skyham. Relieve the moderators of this daily Skyham forum management.

Do team queue they said.

I said “I don’t want to face premades after 10 minute waits” i said.

I queued for team queues.

Faced premades. They sucked

10 minute queues.

Was close matches.

It wasn’t much different than SoloQ. Other than the Skyhammer part. And a 7 minute wait difference.

Orion.3812:

Every class has a way to knock you off. Some enjoy shorter cooldowns or more total cooldowns than others. Some have more stability available than others..

I think you are trolling but….yes good point some classes have considerable more accesses to hard cc’s, stability, aoe cc’s, AI cc’s and on Skyhammer the power of those classes/builds is ramped up to the extreme because these skills now also instantly kill you- and some of them have a very low skill cap to use.

Orion.3812:

Controlling an enemy’s physical position instead of just their ability to position themselves is a mechanic that is not unique to Guild Wars 2, but does play a larger role in this game than many others of the same genre. Skyhammer is not the only example of this, it may just be the most well-known place to exploit such mechanics to one’s obvious advantage.

The trouble here is that there is no logical connection between the first and second sentence.

Yes GW2 has an awesome combat system that is very much about positioning and control, but that system doesn’t shine in Skyhammer, on the contrary, that stupid map limits the use of positioning because key control points are too small to out-position classes/builds with lots of cc/aoe/stability.

Orion.3812:

This game does not need less Skyhammer. It needs more. .

The image this brings to my mind is someone driving a stake through the heart of this poor game.

Orion.3812:

Without Skyhammer, what is sPvP? Boring.
.

Well the spvp forums would certainly be more boring without Skyhammer, but I can’t say I would miss skipping to a new server any time this map comes up in the rotation, and it would certainly increase my desire to do solo queue tourney….

I’m amazed that they took Capricorn out and left this abomination in.

no problem with skyhammer the error is with you. it is a kittenin game and it is in a semi-casual game mode. there are just too much nerdrage. skyhammer is a joke and it’s a good one and if you have a team who is not kitten because of getting killed by some game mechanics and an enemy who has the same mentality it can be really fun and exciting. ofc now i gonna get trolled and hurr-durr cuz how noob i am since this is not semi casual because there is ladder etc etc… problem is that the ladder doesn’t mean anything and you are taking this kitten way more serious than you should.

Eldrad Ulthran.9360:

no problem with skyhammer the error is with you. it is a kittenin game and it is in a semi-casual game mode. there are just too much nerdrage. skyhammer is a joke and it’s a good one and if you have a team who is not kitten because of getting killed by some game mechanics and an enemy who has the same mentality it can be really fun and exciting. ofc now i gonna get trolled and hurr-durr cuz how noob i am since this is not semi casual because there is ladder etc etc… problem is that the ladder doesn’t mean anything and you are taking this kitten way more serious than you should.

You are right the map is a joke, but I guess we have a different sense of humour because I find it in quite bad taste.

I think a simple solution that would benefit skyhammer is to make the cannon dodgeable like trebs on khylo – so any form of evade or dodge will avoid being hit by it.

Ok I’m going to stick my neck out here on the block…

As for being pulled/pushed off the edge – I don’t think all the different ways of doing this can be treated in the same way – neither can all the map pull/push locations be treated in the same way. Some do require skill to setup and a certain level of idiocy from your opponent, to force them into a bad position to knock off.

For example standing still on points A and C and getting pulled down the side glass panels is a little cheap. I think something could be done with the angles of the map here.

However using utilities/weapon skills to gain positional advantage for a successful knockback off the edge is not trivial and requires your opponent to move to the wrong position as well. It could involve extra steps – for example first I must strip stability, force them to move in a bad position, maybe burn a couple of utilities to put myself in the right position at the moment they’re in the wrong position, etc.

The cannon is the real problem on this map IMO – not the falling off. Being unable to dodge together with the necessity for maintaining good position on this map makes for a very ugly combo.

tl;dr – Nerf the cannon (ie evadeable), fix/move/remove diagonal glass panels at points A and C. Map is not as bad as made out to be.

I just got champ. engi on skyhammer. I feel so dirty. I’m not sure why. I’ve never changed my spec. I"ve only run toolkit. Though with that single toolkit, i’ve killed more people than any other weapon combined on my alts.

Skyhammer is good as a fun, casual map, but bad as a competitive map.

You simply can’t take spvp seriously when one of its two competitive modes heavily promote one hit kill tactics with no means to react to and counterplay. It just goes completely against some of the core foundations that enable an healthy, competitive experience.

Map is great just remove knocking out and it will be fine

for the thousandth time… this map is totally OK in non-competitive PvP modes
It has no place in soloQ though…and as someone who has landed this freaking map 3+ times in a row on a consistent basis, it gets very annoying

Is it seriously that hard to implement a vote map feature for all players matched up in a SoloQ?
Just a popup asking each player on each side of the matchup that “skyhammer is the next map, would you vote to skip or play it?”
I can’t believe how ignored this has become on anet’s side when majority of the PvP playerbase has been asking for ANYKIND of change to this god forsaken map since its release

Orion.3812:

As a ranger, or a guardian, or a thief, or… wait a second, what class doesn’t have a crowd control ability that can pull/push you off an edge in Skyhammer?

Every class has a way to knock you off. Some enjoy shorter cooldowns or more total cooldowns than others. Some have more stability available than others. Both are excellent ways to take control of the Skyhammer cannon, which is appropriately powerful and should not be nerfed in damage in any way, considering a healing guardian can easily stand in its fire.

Controlling an enemy’s physical position instead of just their ability to position themselves is a mechanic that is not unique to Guild Wars 2, but does play a larger role in this game than many others of the same genre. Skyhammer is not the only example of this, it may just be the most well-known place to exploit such mechanics to one’s obvious advantage.

This game does not need less Skyhammer. It needs more. We need more maps that give players a way to leverage specific skills or builds in unique ways to gain an advantage. The only problem with Skyhammer is that the right hit from any relevant point on the map can send you off the edge. Even B isn’t completely safe from instant death, but I think if someone causes you to fall from B to your death they deserve the credit.

Without Skyhammer, what is sPvP? Boring. Sure it’s fun when you first start playing it, and sometimes you get in a good fight but in the end the objective is exactly the same in every single sPvP map in this game: territories. There are mechanics that help you score points faster. There are mechanics that make it easier to hold territories. But ultimately, sPvP is territories.

Where is capture the flag? Hot potato? What about soccer, so we ckittene all those knockback moves on something that doesn’t whine in map chat every time it gets hit by them?

And most of all, where is death match? I don’t mean kill-as-many-as-you-can-for-points, I mean something meaningful where you pit two teams against each other and the last team with at least one member still alive wins.

I mean its a good idea in theory, but right now it just lends itself to classes with ridiculous AI camping the cannon, and requiring 2-3 people to take out the person on the cannon when an MM necro or Turret engi decides to sit there. The game shouldn’t be balanced around 1v1, but as we know, those builds are too strong in 1v1 so they can hold those structures and they divert considerable team resources to kill the AI spam class while the other 4 people on its team are free to cap everything or help the AI spam class…

Knocking people off the map is fine and all, but having a person OP in 1v1 situations holding it is a significant problem.

And not all of us play cleric guardians. Try playing anything either glass or with middling mobility and see how you feel about the cannon. The cannon is a problem because it allows one person to contribute MASSIVELY in team fights without the time delay between rotating points, and becuase AI builds can hold the cannon so well, that is obviously imbalanced. If glass eles sat on the cannon, that would be fine, but instead things that are too strong 1v1 take it and basically win the match for their whole team.

What do you think guys?

1.- The rank system was kitten. Glory farming, bye bye to the prestige of high real rank players.

2.- A whole new rank system was implemented, now you see a dragon finisher . . . bah.

3.- Worst side of SPVP (TROLLING), is a must.

4.- The biggest or one of the biggest threads of complains in the history in SPVP.

5.- The only map that directly hard punish professions with low CC.

What do you think?

The only funny part of this map IMO is how Anet decide to include it in SoloQ . . . a ranked system already bad.

That, and it is a terrible way to treat the sandwurms.

They need to do something with the fall-instadeath concept. Maybe don’t die from the fall and add a way to get back up, so that falling is like a very hard CC.

Took from “Casual Selfie” thread.

SoLeciTO.3490:

The only funny part of this map IMO is how Anet decide to include it in SoloQ .

i dunno, i find the funniest thing is how they’re ignoring everything we say about it!

like a child pulling the bedsheets over their head.
because if you can’t see it, it must not there anymore!

Skyhammer is another massive problem in spvp like spectator mode. I haven’t read all the past 19 pages but I’m sure what I would have said has already been said. That said, I’m disappointed that there hasn’t been a single dev response in this long thread about this long standing problem. I don’t think removing it now like raid on the capricorn will fix the damage it has done i.e giving some people higher ranks than they deserve.

I think a few people misunderstood my opinion of Skyhammer. I think Skyhammer is fun to play on with any class, personally, but I’m not saying I want to see it more often in my sPvP queue and I do think it could be improved.

What I tried to explain with my earlier post is that we shouldn’t bash Skyhammer for being different from other sPvP maps. We need more variety than we have now, so it’d be a lot more constructive to propose improvements to Skyhammer or new map ideas for the devs rather than asking them to remove Skyhammer from the game entirely.

The only way to improve is to try changing something and see how it works. Removing maps from the rotation is just backtracking to where we were before.

SoLeciTO.3490:

What do you think guys?

1.- The rank system was kitten. Glory farming, bye bye to the prestige of high real rank players.

2.- A whole new rank system was implemented, now you see a dragon finisher . . . bah.

3.- Worst side of SPVP (TROLLING), is a must.

4.- The biggest or one of the biggest threads of complains in the history in SPVP.

5.- The only map that directly hard punish professions with low CC.

What do you think?

The only funny part of this map IMO is how Anet decide to include it in SoloQ . . . a ranked system already bad.

I think all of those are valid points. I know that Skyhammer keeps a number of people from enjoying or even playing SPVP. Imo it needs to be removed ASAP because its the no. 1 problem in PvP.

Orion.3812:

The only way to improve is to try changing something and see how it works. Removing maps from the rotation is just backtracking to where we were before.

Try changing something? Introduce a new map!

New map is clearly imbalanced in a whoooole bunch of ways, as well as full of bugs? Not at all popular with the community? Try to fix it!

Fixed new map still incredibly imbalanced and still full of all those bugs? Still hated by the majority of players? Causing 4v5s and ragequits from the whole game?

What now?

Tweak it more?

Or maybe consider that it’s the basic design elements of the map that are at fault. The hugely powerful secondary objective, and that this secondary objective and the side points are largely controlled through instagib mechanics, are what drive people to afk on the map when it pops.

y u do dis 2 us
such balance
very sadness
much qq
whyyyyyyy

+1, let’s get this to 1000 replies without a red comment

theend.2137:

What they don’t realize is that if Skyhammer was not in SoloQ, more people would play the game. Skyhammer removed = more (happy!) people in solo queue.

its certainly one of the reasons that i don’t play tournaments, i dont want to risk the 1/6 chance of this hideous map with no way of leaving.
if it pops up in hotjoin we can all just flip the bird at our monitors and switch server