Guild Wars 2

keeping this on page 1, skyhammer needs to be flushed

Duran.3196:

Apparition.1576:

(…) Explain.

You wrote now , you want an explanation in 2 close up threads.
That reminds me so much of my nephew having a phase where he tended to annoy his parents questioning every single one of his parents decissions/orders whatever with the “spamming” : “explain?!”

In this thread there are enough proper and detailed explanations why this map should not be in SoloQ.
If you are too lazy to seek them out, cause this has become such a megathread I cant help you.

If you are too lazy to explain YOUR points.. why even post?

Apparition.1576:

If you are too lazy to explain YOUR points.. why even post?

I explained them several times, and I wont write an essay every post.

In short there is a fundamental difference between competitive maps and so considered “fun” maps.

And in any other “esports”-orientated fun maps are not part of the cycle of competitive maps, okay GW2 has so few maps that the rotation is already very small.

If for example you played dota in any ladder you usually dont play -ardm -wtf
in lol you usually dont play aram in ladder.
In CS you usually do not play on jump maps etc etc etc.

Skyhammer is a map full of unavoidable instakill moves, that favourizes some classes to a very unnatural extent, while leaving certain other classes completely out.

Remove this troll map from solo queue already. I can hack 1 game in 100 but when it pops up 3x in a row and my team mates are clueless/we get out comped, its enough for anyone to rage.

Anet you are either blind, do not care about your own customer feedback, or you are such a pathetically small company you cant even put in the time to just remove it from the queues….if people want to have ‘FUN’ with it, leave it in hotjoin for the hotjoin/troll heroes, but dont make me suffer when all i want is to play PvP not PvOPMAPCARRYINGCERTIANCOMPS+1SHOTHAMMER.

Thanks bye.

Inb4 deleted/merged/banned.

I’ve spent enough money on this game for Anet to kittening take notice. Off to eat an ice-choc.

Would you prefer :
a) Remove the Map from soloque and remove the rewards cap from hotjons ?
So ppl can play freely these maps there , and they dont get forced to play a single solo-team arena in order to max out their rewards (gold-chest unlocks) ?
b) keep it the way it is now ?

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Would you prefer :
a) Remove the Map from soloque and remove the rewards cap from hotjons ?
So ppl can play freely these maps there , and they dont get forced to play a single solo-team arena in order to max out their rewards (gold-chest unlocks) ?
b) keep it the way it is now ?

Im not against removing the map all together…i want it removed from competitive queuing. It’s so unbalanced because it heavily favours classes with heavy cc/on point dmg and access to stability.
You should never ever have to look at the team line up at the start and know if you will win or not just because your opponents have the favourable setup for that map.

At least in the other maps there is more space for the classes who dont rely on standing on a point like a kitten/ or who are punished for their lack of cc/stability to kite/use tactics for the fights.

People can still get their reward chests from farming hotjoins, and in hotjoin you can just leave the map if you dont like it.

Yoloqueue you are forced to play it even though there is literally nothing you can do that will grant you a win due to a class bias map.

What annoys me the most is the countless threads/qqing done within the pvp forums/community for, what, well over a year now..and ANET seems to think its fine to do SWEET kitten ALL.

The more I pvp, the more I tend to agree with this. I played the other day and got put against 5 engineers. It was a nightmare. I think we lost with less than a hundred points.

Removing it without adding a new one could be contrary to their personal objectives:

Anet boss: “Guys…I pay you to do content..community wants more pvp content …do it!!!”
Anet devs:“Sir we added two new maps Sir..ok they are not designed well enough for team queue ..but they are perfect for solo queue.. can I get my bonus now ?”

Removing them would acknowledge close to 0 additional serious content to pvp since start. (I only have tempest in mind)
Not acceptable.

Remove this kittening map already. It’s a buggy piece of kitten. I fell through the world, into some watery depth down below, and I was STUCK there. there was no way out. I was below the wurms and they wouldn’t do anything to me.

Why is teamQ 250-1000 almost exclusively soloers?

Hmmmmmmmmm, +5 silver even though you lose more cz u face premades ? Yea thats must be it

please remove this horrid map from rotation.

ArrDee.2573:

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Actions speak louder than words frands! And there have been enough words said in this thread! We must boycott this map! We must boycott solo q! Only when Anet’s fancy shmancy suit wearing executives in their board rooms realize their precious numbers are falling will we finally see change! Please my frands! We must be a united front! Follow Vee Wee’s example! Do not play solo queue! Do not play Skyhammer! Dishonored is but a badge of honor! A badge that says, “Curse you Arenanet! You will not own me! I refuse to play your map!”

#boycottsoloq2014 #boycottskyhammer2014

Wahoo! Be frands!

I already do this. It’s annoying when I don’t play with my guildies and I am matched up against a premade. I was 100% expecting this feature pack to come with changes to skyhammer. The response to Blu’s question was so disappointing. They don’t even have any concrete changes in place and they think that most people like the map. Anet is so out of touch with their players. I don’t even understand how it becomes this bad.

where did anet get the idea that majority of the people like this map?!
they being stubborn or fed false information?
have they even played soloq lately??

darres.8203:

where did anet get the idea that majority of the people like this map?!

I explained it already:
The majority = the team in charge of developing the map, not able to admit that they did a bad job + the pinball trollbuild players enjoying this map

The Minority= everyone else

The easiest solution would be making an official survey you only can access via account (in order to hinder ppl to vote several times, or at least restricting it to one vote per bought game).
Best thing would even be doing that for ALL maps, especially new maps that eventually get implemented in the future, like this PvP would REALLY improve.

Remove skyhammer from soloQ

6….6 kittening skyhammer in a row

AGAIN…6…SIX (!!) kittening times got this kitten in soloq popping up

You’re just making ppl quit this game…for real

for the love of god please remove this map from the soloQ rotation…. it has come to a point where it has become unbearable to play this kitten kittening kitten.

fix it all you want, please waste your dev time on it if you want to do so but at least remove it from the rotation…

I actually alt-f4’d out today after getting pulled onto the glass the 34934th time by stealthed engis/thieves… It’s stupid, annoying and is not interactive. I don’t mind dying but I do mind dying for stupid reasons.

Please either remove or revamp Skyhammer, it’s incredibly bad and unbalanced the way it is.

So by “stupid reasons” you mean you died from getting tricked into standing on a glass door?

Or did you die because your team failed to control the hammer? That just creates more strategy to determine how many resources (players) you need to devote. This is no difference from destroying/defending trebuechet.

Were you just outplayed and knocked off the map? Did you have stability? What class were you?

All I see is just a lot of posts of people crying rather than any real concrete justifications of deleting a great map from PvP…

this map needs to be rework. The portal to hammer many times is bugged and you stay in the ground and loss time waiting the buff end. In the others map at least you can run by structures and avoid the portals but here if you have bad luck cant reach the hammer.

Apparition.1576:

So by “stupid reasons” you mean you died from getting tricked into standing on a glass door?

Or did you die because your team failed to control the hammer? That just creates more strategy to determine how many resources (players) you need to devote. This is no difference from destroying/defending trebuechet.

Were you just outplayed and knocked off the map? Did you have stability? What class were you?

All I see is just a lot of posts of people crying rather than any real concrete justifications of deleting a great map from PvP…

there is no outplaying, a fish flopping on the keyboard could get these cheap kills on this map. and as to no concrete justifications, you must be too lazy to scroll through the 20+ pages of people doing exactly that, giving perfectly concrete justification why this map should be tossed into a grave and buried. any map where you can use literally just one skill to rack up dozens of kills is not a good map, let alone a great map.

and since you’re too lazy to scroll through the list, here’s an example or two as to why this map needs to go away (the general idea behind the reasons, don’t remember them word for word):

1. it makes certain classes gods, which certainly isn’t balanced.
2. it promotes a toxic gameplay enviroment, which anet doesn’t like in anything else, why should this piece of garbage be different?
3. it causes people to afk for the entire match, so something clearly isn’t very right with it.

and don’t say something about “you can counter it with stability, l2p, etc etc”. engineer magnet pull doesn’t have a giveaway if they’re invisible, most thieves have their scorp wire flying the second the glass audibly breaks, and the troll groups work together to position you to get knocked off before you can pop stability. great map my kitten , remove this map.

enough said. There are hardly ever and 5v5s on this map because someone always leaves

Even if people like this map, I think they’d get frustrated at the abundance of 4v5s and teams that just quit mid-match. It happens 10x more than any other map.

Apparition.1576:

So by “stupid reasons” you mean you died from getting tricked into standing on a glass door?

Or did you die because your team failed to control the hammer? That just creates more strategy to determine how many resources (players) you need to devote. This is no difference from destroying/defending trebuechet.

Were you just outplayed and knocked off the map? Did you have stability? What class were you?

All I see is just a lot of posts of people crying rather than any real concrete justifications of deleting a great map from PvP…

No I wasn’t “tricked” or “outplayed”… I died to the cheese only made possible by the mechanics of the map (ie. the breakable glass that instakills you) combined with some classes ability to pull your character while in stealth. The hammer is fine, the glass is not.

I love crazy Skyhammer

Just delete this map. Whoever is at a-net telling you that this map is good or important should not be taken seriously as they clearly aren’t doing the game any favours.

Rolyate.6753:

Just delete this map. Whoever is at a-net telling you that this map is good or important should not be taken seriously as they clearly aren’t doing the game any favours.

Anet should never be taken seriously anyway, even less when they’re talking about skyhammer and pvp balance

Xista.7391:

Even if people like this map, I think they’d get frustrated at the abundance of 4v5s and teams that just quit mid-match. It happens 10x more than any other map.

Only reterded bads with troll specs like skyhammer…and there’s a reason: they won’t do kitten in other maps without exploiting…if you look at “high” (lol) soloq ladder most of those playing engi are not even in tque ladder…nough said

JusticarArkiel.1564:

Apparition.1576:

So by “stupid reasons” you mean you died from getting tricked into standing on a glass door?

Or did you die because your team failed to control the hammer? That just creates more strategy to determine how many resources (players) you need to devote. This is no difference from destroying/defending trebuechet.

Were you just outplayed and knocked off the map? Did you have stability? What class were you?

All I see is just a lot of posts of people crying rather than any real concrete justifications of deleting a great map from PvP…

there is no outplaying, a fish flopping on the keyboard could get these cheap kills on this map. and as to no concrete justifications, you must be too lazy to scroll through the 20+ pages of people doing exactly that, giving perfectly concrete justification why this map should be tossed into a grave and buried. any map where you can use literally just one skill to rack up dozens of kills is not a good map, let alone a great map.

and since you’re too lazy to scroll through the list, here’s an example or two as to why this map needs to go away (the general idea behind the reasons, don’t remember them word for word):

Bolded for the irony… 90% of the post that I have read are QQ post.. but I commend you for bringing at least some discussion to this QQ thread or quoting post to back your views

1. it makes certain classes gods, which certainly isn’t balanced.

Funny, I have 5 80’s and sPvP with them all. This is certainly false. Maybe its the build you are using in sPvP.

2. it promotes a toxic gameplay enviroment, which anet doesn’t like in anything else, why should this piece of garbage be different?

Toxic gameplay environment? I don’t understand.. this is conquest.. the place where everyone thinks bunker builds are the best builds, in spite of the severe lack of skill needed to play these builds.

3. it causes people to afk for the entire match, so something clearly isn’t very right with it.

Bad news bruh.. this is not ANET’s fault.. nothing they can do to fix this besides turning abandoned debuff back on

and don’t say something about “you can counter it with stability, l2p, etc etc”. engineer magnet pull doesn’t have a giveaway if they’re invisible, most thieves have their scorp wire flying the second the glass audibly breaks, and the troll groups work together to position you to get knocked off before you can pop stability. great map my kitten , remove this map.

Sorry but you are wrong again brother.. if you are fighting an engineer and he goes invis, first off he will not be invisible that long. Secondly, most likely you are referring to the hammer that is the only possible place I can imagine someone QQ about engineer stealth. But if this is the case guess what.. he isn’t doing any damage.. lay down AOE/cleave and just auto-attack. Also if he is using stealth at hammer then he obviously isn’t much of a bunker and should be easy to kill anyway.

i would be seriously angry with you guys if it got removed. there are a few tweaks to the map, which could be done to overall improve the experience with the map, but that layout, it’s fantastic. the unblinkable pillars, the jump pads, .... it’s genious. the hammer itself not so much, but the rest is super awesome. plus: if you get feared or pulled or kicked down, you’re doing something wrong. just don’t go to hammer if you don’t have stability ready for the crucial moment the thief/mesmer/engi goes invis and burst him down. there’s no such thing as an invincible build.

don’t get me wrong, i don’t say that there’s nothing wrong with it, but just a few minor tweaks would make this map perfect. remember when the same kittenstorm was around for spirit watch or temple of the silent storm? temple even got updated to a tournament map after they fixed the major bugs and the water stuff.

edit: i am just imagining, how a kittenstorm would actually look like! <3

What would be sick is if they replaced all the glass floors with fire pits so you take burning damage and then surrounded the whole in a electric dome- like the underdome.

you take electric damage if you are forced into it.

how risky is to keep this map . . . ruining Anet reputation . . . =P

About 1 year and 2 months ago Skyhammer was announced and players were very happy because a new map was coming.

The map was launched an people started complaining for not having enough CC to send characters down like Necro and Engi and Guardian have.

Then the big farming for glory and ranks (under B point) started on this map, and a few people got banned for it.

The map got modified and adjusted so people can no longer farm it, but players found another spot for farming (on the edge, under B).

The glory got removed (the ranks were planned too for ladders and seasons, but players where overwhelming on forums in keeping ranks, and so ranks were not removed). The farming slowly ended.

Farming was lost, map was modified, now started the real complaining from players actually playing and going down from crowd control.

The map was removed from TeamPvP but was kept in SoloQ and Hotjoin.

People playing SoloQ and Hotjoin still complain about it, 1 year after release.

In my opinion this is what happens when a game has professions with crowd control for antiplay instead of play, we get many people unhappy and 1 year of complaining with requests for map removal and balancing. I strongly think this map has the most complains in this forum, generally because of crowd control not being fun when received.

imo, it’s not the CC that makes this map so annoying, it’s the hammer and the fact, that 9/10 matches are in skyhammer.

tanztante.6532:

imo, it’s not the CC that makes this map so annoying, it’s the hammer and the fact, that 9/10 matches are in skyhammer.

That is what is so great about it. It does not matter how well you bunker points, it forces you to have to also keep the wild card in mind (the hammer) and devote resources on controlling or containing it.

Apparition: you’re trolling a bit too hard now; your posts are getting a bit too silly to be believable. You should pop back to the Warrior forum and tell them that nerfs to hambow and axebow have been confirmed, if you want more entertainment.

Apparition is correct. The hammer does add an interesting layer to the game and makes it much harder to effectively bunker down. Even if you sent a bunker to control the hammer the other team can still get an instant win by knocking the bunker off, so it’s very difficult to obtain permanent control over the hammer room for an entire match if the other team communicates about what profession is in there and what tactic they are using.

Is it a guardian or engineer bunker? Send someone in with some good knockbacks, wait out the stability, get the right positioning, and BAM!

Is it a terrormancer? Make sure your teammates know what to expect when going through that portal and send someone who can counter a terrormancer. And yes terrormancers are beatable in that room. I’ve done it on my elementalist by positioning myself butt to purple energy wall next to the portal and letting the portal’s frame catch me when I got feared, waiting the fear spam out, and then going on the offensive.

Meanwhile if you keep up enough pressure on the skyhammer control room the enemy will be forced to keep two people inside to remain in control, which means the rest of the game is a 3v5. More than enough of an advantage to keep back capping and double teaming their members to victory despite the hammer blasts.

As I’ve already said, the only changes I’d make to the map are the glass panels and how they interact with stealth, and make it so death by fall damage doesn’t give the enemy team points to encourage people to actually fight without resorting to the fall tactic.

I for one would like an official response as to why Skyhammer and Spirit Watch, the two most hated maps, are reserved for solo queue. They are apparently too bad for team queue but just right for the solo queue map rotation. How does that make any sense?

After solo queueing in team queue for the last few months I’ve enjoyed the game a LOT more. There is nothing more frustrating than queueing up and then getting skyhammer.

Skyhammer is not pvp… It’s PvFloor

ALSO, A-net has already stated their opinion via their silence. Skyhammer is here to stay, there is nothing we can do about it. Even if it hurts the game, even if everyone quits. They want it in the game and we’re the ones to suffer. What’s the most frustrating part about it is that they get paid to make the game better, but simply refuse to accept negative community feedback and stupidly believe that we’re just a vocal minority. If they every actually solo queued then we might be in a different situation. If they ever actually sat down and played skyhammer for two hours straight then they might understand how we feel.

The fact of the matter is that it’s just not going away because they don’t believe it’s bad no matter how many of us QQ for how long.

in other words….
All is Vain

Ostricheggs.3742:

The fact of the matter is that it’s just not going away because they don’t believe it’s bad no matter how many of us QQ for how long.

I think it is more that they don’t want to admit that they have failed in the map department. How long has it been since they released temple? That was their last good competitive map.

Apparition.1576:

tanztante.6532:

imo, it’s not the CC that makes this map so annoying, it’s the hammer and the fact, that 9/10 matches are in skyhammer.

That is what is so great about it. It does not matter how well you bunker points, it forces you to have to also keep the wild card in mind (the hammer) and devote resources on controlling or containing it.

nononononono, you completely misunderstood! it’s not the hammer itself (the mechanics are fine, if a bit overpowered), but what he creates: raging thief/engi/mesmer kiddies doing nothing else than bashing their skulls in and knocking each other down from the hammer platform. silly 3v1s, in which 3 ppl end up dead, because of one single temporal curtain, that nobody saw in the AoE overkill.

But then again, this would be not problem at all, if you had a coordinated team with voice com. i am starting to think, this map may be better off in tournaments than in yoloQ after all. yoloQ without improved team communications is not viable for skyhammer.

style.6173:

How long has it been since they released temple? That was their last good competitive map.

scroll a few hundred pages back and look at the posts about " remove temple, it sucks, if you don’t remove temple, i’m quitting the game, we are 99% that hate temple.

cheese.4739:

Apparition: you’re trolling a bit too hard now; your posts are getting a bit too silly to be believable. You should pop back to the Warrior forum and tell them that nerfs to hambow and axebow have been confirmed, if you want more entertainment.

My posts, unlike yours, has statements to support my view/perspective. Also, the evidence is clear. When I say that 90% of the posts here are QQ threads its evident with each post that’s made talking about either how stupid ANET is for making this map, or putting in solo Q without any type of statements to support their views.

I personally believe that this is a consilidated QQ thread for bad players. I can guarantee if people posted actual scenario’s or something, anything to support these outlandish remarks, they could actually gain some knowledge and learn a little more about the map mechanics/counters. I believe the reason people are just spewing hate and disgust for the map is because they do not understand the mechanics (L2P issues).

On another note, I completely agree with the statement made by tanztante, pertaining to the way stealth works on the glass. I’m not sure if this was a bug or glitch but I have also experienced someone stomping someone from the glass. The glass broke but they did not fall without it (without stealth)… I should probably report that as a potential bug maybe?

Apparition.1576:

My posts, unlike yours, has statements to support my view/perspective.

I’ve made, um, quite a few constructive and organised posts about the map, my opinions on it, and what could be done to improve it if it *has* to stay - both in this thread and others. I’m certainly not unwilling to try different setups or learn how to counter enemies... but I have very difinite reasons for wanting this map gone so much.
I’m a bit sick of typing them out, but I guess I can copy a backup of this post somewhere I’ll remember this time.
Anyway, here’re a few of the biggest things I have against Skyhammer:

- Instant-death is something I will never find fun or interesting in the context of GW2 combat. -
The hammer can almost insta-kill alone on a squishy but it’s really the falling-to-death that I mean by this. It doesn’t feel fair to be CC’d into falling to my death, and I don’t find it nearly as satisfying to push/pull someone off as to get a good, proper kill on them. I pvp to fight players, not to get instagibbed by the floor.

- The map is not, and can never be, balanced between classes. -
CC (and mitigating its effects) is just one aspect of combat, and so some classes have higher amounts of this while others get more sustain or more damage or what have you. Combat is meant to be balanced around the profession’s overall set of skills, abilities and features - so when performance on one map is so incredibly focused on a small subset of these things, certain classes (and on top of that, certain build setups on those classes) are going to dominate at all levels of play.
- See also: Spirit Watch, Solo Queue -
Since orbrunning grants so many points, and only one team can orbrun at a time, it pays to bring at least one speedy and tanky character to do this while the rest of the team works on capture points. Not all classes are able to run builds like this, so the map favours certain professions (moreso than the general bunker-tastic conquest mode already does).
It’s rather less of an issue than on Skyhammer, aye, since it doesn’t constantly apply to the entire map - but in soloq, we can’t rely on choosing teams, so the one that happens to have better orbrunners is likely to have an advantage.

- The hammer is far too powerful when it can be held so effectively by one player. -
As has been said in recent posts, the hammer is an interesting mechanics... but I say that it’s still just plain unfair.
It’s an incredibly important thing to control, and is based at the single worst place on the map for CC abuse.
It does huge damage, plus CC, in an area far larger than any capture point - and this damage can’t be mitigated by any conventional blocks, evades or dodges. Squishy builds (usually reliant on evades and dodges) have their defensive abilities pretty much removed against the hammer shot.
The controller has clear views of the entire map - including the only way up to them.
There’s just no way the hammer is fair or balanced in its current state.
- See also: Spirit Watch, Solo Queue -
Hugely important secondary mechanic, shared by both teams, impossible for both to benefit from it at once? So the team that’s better at controlling the orb without decreasing pressure on capture points (i.e. has an orbrunner who won’t die) has an advantage. Potluck in soloq!

- It’s buggy buggy buggy. -
Um. Yeah. Bugs.
Gate to the hammer can instantly teleport players back (and apply debuff preventing re-entry).
The glass platforms mess with teleports, even when there’s sufficient ground to just run around them. They also spin round the camera when they break, for anyone even close to the edge of them.
It’s possible to fall to death and not even die - just be stuck at the bottom of the map, needing to beg the wurms to finish you off.
It’s possible to fall through the bottom of the map (not off the edge/down a hole) and get stuck in limbo, requiring relog.
The map is not fit for ranked play with this many bugs getting reported regularly - the gate and glass panels ones happen to me in most matches!

- So yeah. -
I’ve not explained everything I think about the map, but it has far too many issues for me to ever consider it even slightly okay for ranked pvp.
I still do think that, should we continue to be told "nope, it’s staying in soloq rotation", we should campaign for just one thing:
Make the hammer deal its damage/CC to both teams - friendly fire would be incredibly easy for people to troll with, yes, but it would make soloq matches on the map infinitely more entertaining than the current 4v5s against teams of gimmicky builds (that are completely nonfunctional anywhere else in the game) with your fifth team member sitting afk in base.

Nothing worse than saying to yourself, “I’ll play one more game.” And then this cancer of a map pops up.

Pixels.6532:

Nothing worse than saying to yourself, “I’ll play one more game.” And then this cancer of a map pops up.

i feel your pain bro…and then, let’s just play another one to forget skykitten…and skyhammer pops up again…because esportz

Pixels.6532:

Nothing worse than saying to yourself, “I’ll play one more game.” And then this cancer of a map pops up.

This is generally how it goes for me:

First game: Skyhammer, ok whatever luck of the draw I guess.
Second game: Spirit Watch, ugh better but still bad.
Third game: Skyhammer, why you hate me so much Anet.

for me it’s ALWAYS the same map rotation

1 skyhammer
2 skyhammer
3 kyhlo
4 skyhammer
5 a spirit watch or
5 b foefire

i would love to test it on more games in a row, because you can’t make a statistic out of 5 games, but i can i only play max. 5 games in a row, because sometimes yolo q makes me get very very angry with people and the world, and i don’t want to build atomic bombs to destroy humanity

everybody loves skyhammer chains..

Just make solo que have the same maps of team que

skyhammer doesn’t have a sense for the difference that can have a cc or an immobilize.

without stun breaker/condi removal:

immobilize on glasses = dead

random cc in the wrong position = dead

if you want to be an esport game i think the 1 cc into dead mechanic is not the best way to go

why do you continue to believe in this map?

We (all the pvp community) don’t understand!