Guild Wars 2

For all of you thinking I’m a kittenty necro, ask anyone who’s played with or against me on Necro and ask them if I’m a bad necro. They’ll say kitten nah bro. For all of you telling me your necro builds beat thieves, good for you, but I’m referring to top tier thieves using meta builds vs condition PoC necro and 62006 power necro. Not some random crap thieves that cant dodge DS 2.

In terms of thief hard countering mesmer, yes as a mesmer you CAN beat them 1v1. However what happens the majority of the time is that their stealth will outlast yours and they’ll insta burst you for 7k with BS+Steal, which will effectively remove you from the fight for 20s. On the other hand if you burst them they’ll just pop BP and withdraw and go decap your home point.

For all of you saying this will remove thief from the PvP scene… No, it won’t. Thief will still be taken to shut out Mesmers and Rangers because these changes barely affect their 1v1 capabilities, and even with the mobility nerf thieves will still by far be the fastest class in huge game. And if it does remove thief from PvP… Is that such a bad thing for the class that has dominated PvP since the beginning of the game?

Elitist.8701:

For all of you thinking I’m a kittenty necro, ask anyone who’s played with or against me on Necro and ask them if I’m a bad necro. They’ll say kitten nah bro. For all of you telling me your necro builds beat thieves, good for you, but I’m referring to top tier thieves using meta builds vs condition PoC necro and 62006 power necro. Not some random crap thieves that cant dodge DS 2.

Maybe those TOP-TIER (ur words) thieves are just simply better than you? Nah, can’t be it…

Teef your so good that no one wanted you in their team.

Dr Gonzo.6259:

For a little perspective, my main is a shatter mesmer, the class that thieves compete w/ for team space and role the most…

There is no competition, you either have a mesmer paired with a thief or you use a thief because it is better, which is why for 3 years thief has had a slot in nearly every team regardless of the meta, 5 slots 8 classes, only one always has a place, objectively the class is imbalanced in tPvP.

Puck.1509:

Well as a mesmer, thief is my hardcounter however I can beat them it just takes a bit of patience and timing. If I kite out his stealth and manage to dodge his backstabs or pull off invulnerability when needed I just need to get in 1 good combo and he’s dead. I however dislike when he dies in that long stealth, everybody runs off and he gets himself up. However a thief needs these mechanics to be effective. Like others have said, you take away what a thief does best and you can essentially just replace him with any other class. A thieve’s ability to roam the map quickly and get in and out of situations is all part of the classes role. I would say nerf the rangers longbow (2) skill before worrying about the thief.

The more I’ve taken to learn my class as mesmer is mostly all I play, no class is hardcountering me. Yes back when I started out as a mesmer I got wrecked but I refrained from coming on the forums and moaning, instead I mastered it and now I can effectively get out of most situations and counter most fights. People could say I’m OP because my instant damage output but yet not everyone can pull it off. When looking at a nooby thief, they spam their backstab steal and I just circle them laughing as its a simple thing to avoid.
Know your class before making any assessments. I do think the thieve’s stealth may need a very little look at but otherwise don’t take away what they’re good at.

My conclusion would be to master your class. MASTER it. Don’t get into the odd situations with a hard counter and kitten why they were able to get you and not what you could have done differently. Everytime I die, it is my fault. It the team is severely loosing then I couldn’t have done anything differently without support. But effectively it is your fault. You have a brain right? If you come across a class you know is going to out do you in a certain way (stealth) then out think him/her. Predict movements. When a thief goes stealth towards me, I wait a few seconds and stealth out until they’re revealed. Most classes have a block/invulnerable skill that they could use in place of stealth. Plenty of ways to get out of situations but its easier to ask arena net to help you so you do better.

I HATED rangers, now I merely drop them in a heartbeat because most that play just pew pew and have no reaction for when I come out of the blue and combo them. Their number 2 skill is overpowered slightly. But all I ask is that you firstly look at all your other possible scenarios before coming out with a problem requiring a nerf. I read a necro can easily counter a thief. This isn’t an imbalance this is a lack of skill on your half. Please focus on the real problems of the game.
Like build diversity.

finally someone who actually plays the game.

Question how does this dude keep coming here making noise. He wasnt very good and he always ran meta builds and when he lost he blamed everyone else. I recall people telling me when he was on there teams for ANYTHING he would bark orders and if they lost any situation he would cry and tell everyone to L2P.

He keeps coming on the forum and people keep responding, its driving me crazy that a slightly above average player, announces himself as one of the best and chirps like a birdie. Please people let him make his post and ignore

This thread got as far – thiefhate wise – as to request nerfing their class mechanics and replacing grandmaster traits with useless ones.
I for one started a trait here about improving condition removal for thieves, since as it was (and will no longer be), the only “reliable” way to do it was stealth builds, and even so it felt weak in a conditions heavy environment. What I did learn and tend to agree to is that thieves do have condition evasion (like someone said, you don’t get conditions if the enemy can’t hit you).
There are, it seems people who main other classes that also lean towards “improve your gameplay” option instead of “nerf everyone else, please”.
I’m quite far from being a good thief, but I’ve been taught the hard way that it’s most of the time my lack of focus or poor skills and timing that are my most vicious enemies in any situation in pvx, not mesmers, necros, the lack of condi removal or the flimsy vitality. Could apply to other people too, I think.

kdaddy.5431:

Question how does this dude keep coming here making noise. He wasnt very good and he always ran meta builds and when he lost he blamed everyone else. I recall people telling me when he was on there teams for ANYTHING he would bark orders and if they lost any situation he would cry and tell everyone to L2P.

He keeps coming on the forum and people keep responding, its driving me crazy that a slightly above average player, announces himself as one of the best and chirps like a birdie. Please people let him make his post and ignore

Reported for kitten , the burn is real!

thief has to be good at something, or else what’s the point of thief?

sure, perhaps stealth needs some tweaks, but the only big problems I see with thief are in the new SA line.

Rickster.8752:

Maris.3164:

From my personal point of view: I main a thief, I play pvp (and pve). I have never ever had any trouble against thieves on my thief or other professions (including a power necro). Yes, on occasion a good thief kills me on w/e profession I am playing at the time. Good for them, they outplayed me, just like any other good player with another class could have.

But most of the time thieves don’t even offer much of a challenge, not alone at least. OP why do you think that is? I’m not a super good player, average at best. I think it’s because I know what they can do so I can predict their moves to some degree. And ironically, my thief seems to be the most vulnerable against a thief.

Thief is meant to excell at 1v1, but cannot contribute much in a bigger fight, something the other professions can do. Mobility is the sole reason thieves are even in the meta still, they can turn 1v1 into 2v1 faster than any other profession (aside from a mesmer with portal). Take that away and you will see thieves in pvp no more. Stealth is not invulnerability and neither is mobility, you can still cc them and hit them through stealth.

Are you really saying thief is bad in big fights lol?

You couldn’t be more wrong. Refuge is still a way to get resses off. But more than this, if you ever played in a game without a thief there is so much a good player can do to stay alive. A good necro will be kiting like a boss. Line of sighting, porting out. And the same goes for any class. A shoutbow will get low and start to kite. ALL OF THIS is nullified by a single thief. All of it. Now all those low targets will get finished off. Without a thief those targets will be hard to finish off.

As such, thief is the best class is all engagements. Its initiative regen is simply too high. The balance is just way off. A nerf to celestial (which is needed) is going to make thief even more broken. They must receive significant nerfs to their core profession mechanics.

Yes the thief can contribute in a bigger fight IF they can survive. That is the issue really. I prefer 1v1 and decapping when it’s a possibility simply because surviving in a bigger fight is difficult.

I don’t know if you play a thief or not but you simply cannot get hit by any of that aoe that goes on in bigger fights. None of it. Majority of the time I can’t continue to res people in SR because somebody is on top of it spamming their skills at us. I jump in and out, target squishies and pray not to get hit by aoe. Most of the time I’m forced to swap to SB to continue to attack. Other times I stealth and run, that is if I’m not dead already.

I’d say thief is good in a bigger fight only when nobody is specifically targeting them and they dance around the area of cluster instead of moving into it (to res for instance you will have to). Even you have to admit a power necro has way better chances at surviving in a bigger fight without running off (I play both btw).

Seriously. Thieves get destroyed in AOEs, which is most of the PvP battles. Let us enjoy having mobility and being strong in intimate fights. Plus, you’re only as good the hours you put into a thief.

kdaddy.5431:

Question how does this dude keep coming here making noise. He wasnt very good and he always ran meta builds and when he lost he blamed everyone else. I recall people telling me when he was on there teams for ANYTHING he would bark orders and if they lost any situation he would cry and tell everyone to L2P.

He keeps coming on the forum and people keep responding, its driving me crazy that a slightly above average player, announces himself as one of the best and chirps like a birdie. Please people let him make his post and ignore

I don’t even know you, nor do I remember ever facing you in a duel or PvP, so refrain from saying random crap that some people that I trolled told you. In terms of the whole team thing, I never barked orders or cried or said anything negative to any of my teammates. While I am toxic in game when I get on TS with teammates I act like a normal person as I would in real life. I’d like to know who exactly told you that I “bark orders”. Also lol at “he always ran meta builds”. Typically when someone expresses discontent with running meta they’re hotheaded scrubs. There’s this one warrior I know whose name starts with s and ends with hwarheit who’s exactly like that.

For all the Thief mains saying L2P if you wanna 1v1 ThiefvThief Ill destroy all of you.

No matter how skilled you are, if you don’t run meta build, you’re just mediocre.

:’)

Tao.1234:

No matter how skilled you are, if you don’t run meta build, you’re just mediocre.

:’)

Does that mean Tage was mediocre until his build (not his but for the sake of arguing) became meta?

Saiyan.1704:

Tao.1234:

No matter how skilled you are, if you don’t run meta build, you’re just mediocre.

:’)

Does that mean Tage was mediocre until his build (not his but for the sake of arguing) became meta?

You should ask Elitist that.
He claimed it couple of months ago in one of o’great meta threads.

:’D

The real cancer that destroys PvP is the developer class actually.

They have this one passive called “Lack of Balancing principles,” an elite called “Implement Anti-Fun Mechanics,” and a healing skill called “I’m getting paid while I do bad decisions” so that the developers are being forgiven for “bad play.”

BlackTruth.6813:

The real cancer that destroys this class is the developer class actually.

They have this one passive called “Lack of Balancing principles,” an elite called “Implement Anti-Fun Mechanics,” and a healing skill called “I’m getting paid while I do bad decisions” so that the developers are being forgiven for “bad play.”

i like you~

Wow so many threads on thief seriously? Come on thief most under powered class in the game nerfed nearly into the ground and yet people still QQing for more. Seems none are satisfied until one class in completely unusable.

Mrbig.8019:

tyresias.2306:

Omocha.4931:

I’d say he’s right! Thieves are OP! Lowest HP pool in the game and shabby condi removal, quite a hard choice between survivability and burst overall, no invulnerability, stability, summons or decent condi damage. No spammable skills due to initiative restrictions, but yes! OP! Remove the stealth and the half-broken shadowsteps, pl0x! And while at it, remove their weapons too! Give them a broom!

It’s on the same note with “Ranger OP! 1500 Rapid Shot happy wefs!” and “Necro OP! Remove Death Shroud and Lich Form pl0x!”. How about remove the attunements from eles too?! Make each weapon only give 1 att or 2. And give mesmers only 1 clone, remove the virtues and Elite Focus from guardians and maybe the stances from warriors. You might as well, take the grenades and elixirs away from engineers! Hell! Even better! Give every class a broom as the only weapon!

I get what you’re doing… It’s not funny. But I get it.
Although blind and fury-filled threads are not the best way to begin a discussion, it not a coincidence that so many threads for the thief exist nowadays. What the OP is trying unsuccessfully to do is to highlight the dominance of a specific class in the PvP environment. I do think that everyone kittenpects himself and does some basic pvp knows this to be true. And that’s nothing new.

The difference between the classes you mentioned and the thief is that none of those are represented in top tier pvp. Very very few exceptions. Don’t take this as patronizing, but ranger’s 1500 range and ‘’hurr durr second HP bar necroes’’ is not even close to the problem the thief is creating. Pushing basically every other possible zerk build out, and directly counter them without much retaliation. I am not saying rangers mesmers etc. cannot do the same role as the thief, it’s just that the thief outclass them and many others by a large margin.

Aside pushing all other zerk specs out from the meta, those problems thief is creating are way worse.

1. It forces point camping, cuz stealth and superior mobility ( this gives the thief UNMATCHED map control that alone forces meta into a certain way).

2. surv-damage/utility ratio is WAY WAY off.
D/P panic strike is basically immune to both damage ( stealth, teleports, blinds) and conditions ( condi remove in stealth + ridicolous stealth uptime thx to blinding powder, initiative latest buff and impro procs).

Inb4 " IMMUNE TO DAMAGE ROFL L2P";

Good panic strike thieves will never die unless out of cds. If a thief is out of CDs, he’s bad.

The only thing capable to kill a thief is another thief. This at high level play.

If you"next poster" disagree then you are so below that level that u can’t even imagine what a capable thief can do.

If so, don’t even reply to me, i won’t bother replying again.

Cele needs to be nerfed hard.

Thief needs to be nerfed harder ( especially air/fire and runes).

Thief was balanced only when played on crit strikes, current thief is simply a joke and should be gutted.

if you reliably lose to panic strikes you’re going to lose to critical strikes all the same. you’re just bad at handling thief. i will gladly prove this to you in 1v1s if you want.

to say that thief has “pushed every other zerker profession out of the meta” is ignorance beyond comprehension. medi guard, power necro, and shatter mesmer are all still very much viable builds capable of competing with thief in 1v1s and teamfights, with medi guard effectively hard countering d/p thief regardless of build.

you guys are the same bad players refusing to get good but now you preempt your arguments with “STOP SAYING L2P!!!” in a desperate attempt to somehow mitigate the fact that you actually need to get good at the game before having a valid opinion. trying to drag everyone down to your level of lowest common denominator is toxic to the game and downright selfish.

Elitist.8701:

Hi frands, Teef Teef Teef Teef here, retired best multiclass NA!

For someone who has retired, you sure post a lot. You remind me of an ex who can’t let go. Just like an ex, you have two options: 1. beg a team to take you back. 2. move on and play a different game.

Thieves are terrible for AOE give them the benefit of being overpowered in 1 v 1 situations, its a THIEF, a NINJA. That is what the thief does. Its moves quick, get in gets out. Job done. It is supposed to be overpowered in those situations however you have to out think that. Play as a team and coordinate the thief, their instantly dead. Play together rather than on your own and maybe just maybe a thief wont be so hard to down. Spam the thin air around you and you’re bound to get him. Done it so many times… just wait 5 seconds for him to reveal from stealth in down-state. It is too easy at times… seriously…
Lets get off this thief hype and start balancing builds on each class to have effectiveness so you can encourage multiple styles of play!

Puck.1509:

its a THIEF, a NINJA.

If only! Then there would be some substance to the “Thief is OP” argument. Sadly, that’s not the case. A ninja would be able to go toe-to-toe with the most powerful of fighters. Stealth is only the icing on the cake. People seem to forget that the ninja were, first and foremost, expert warriors. Basically, ninja were samurai who operated in shadow… the equivalent of Navy Seals and the like.

The thief, unfortunately, is more like the equivalent of a Black Widow spider. Silent, dark, and lethal. It can hide in shadows and strike without warning. If it bites you, you may die. But you can also squish it dead with one swipe.

By the way, it is sad… I can no longer distinguish if these threads are serious or just trolling :-(

Only 2 classes have always a spot in every team since 3 years

Guardian
Thief

Guardian in pure bunker version (for a very long time) and now in medi zerk (with huge sustain).

There is something wrong if 2 classes are ALWAYS In meta.

Hi teef, most if not all thieves here does not play High tier pvp, or even ESLs, or Academy gaming, you can’t simply make them understand what you’re saying SO, you wouldn’t get any constructive replies here. Its like all thief threads here, for some reason all thief replies you will be getting are the raging types.

Dr Gonzo.6259:

I see the thief as a class that actually improves competitive matches by a lot…people have to pay attention and actually have map awareness in conquest with a class like the thief. Without thief there would be WAY less risk to bringing a high damage zerker settup like mes, power necro and rangers…which would make THOSE classes OP. As it stands the thief makes people think twice about just running zerk, and they have to pay attention to their survival tools and positioning to ensure they don’t get caught out at a bad time. It’s a class that people have to think about dealing with…which may be too difficult for some. I’d understand wanting the game to be easier sometimes but that dosen’t help competitive play.

Also claiming that there are NO counterplays to stealth is just hyperbolic and dumb, massive AoE spam that most meta classes have access to can kill a thief or force him to reset easily if you pay attention to where they are moving. A good thief will make this harder, but again you need to use your BRAIN to learn what they are doing and stop them (ever try just waiting till you know they need to attack or get destealthed then aoe bombing yourself? Necro engie ele guard warr etc..). There is even reveal, which only a few classes have access to but that is LITERALLY a stealth counterplay mechanic.

For a little perspective, my main is a shatter mesmer, the class that thieves compete w/ for team space and role the most, and 1 that hard counters a mes when they +1 on them (which is pretty much their job in a team environment besides roaming and decapping). I’ve been killed by bad thieves, and I’ve killed good ones, positioning and CD management is the key here and a mesmer can kill them 1v1. I’d say I have an easier time on both my necro and my ranger than my mes, and even on my mes I see it as a hazard to being otherwise a really strong zerker burst class with high mobility and team utility. Everything needs a balance, and thieves help that so much. Would you prefer 5v5 all cele + bunker classes that teamfight all game or people actually use strategy and movement to make conquest more exciting?

What? so in short, thief makes shatter mesmer obsolete? that matchup is the way you define to keep OP classes in check? What?

Puck.1509:

Thieves are terrible for AOE give them the benefit of being overpowered in 1 v 1 situations, its a THIEF, a NINJA. That is what the thief does. Its moves quick, get in gets out. Job done. It is supposed to be overpowered in those situations however you have to out think that. Play as a team and coordinate the thief, their instantly dead. Play together rather than on your own and maybe just maybe a thief wont be so hard to down. Spam the thin air around you and you’re bound to get him. Done it so many times… just wait 5 seconds for him to reveal from stealth in down-state. It is too easy at times… seriously…
Lets get off this thief hype and start balancing builds on each class to have effectiveness so you can encourage multiple styles of play!

Thief is Ninja?

Final Fantays XIV: Ninja
http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Ninja

Final Fantasy XI: Ninja
http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Ninja

Final Fantasy XI: Thief
http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Thief

DarkSyze.8627:

Thief is Ninja?

Final Fantays XIV: Ninja
http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Ninja

Final Fantasy XI: Ninja
http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Ninja

Final Fantasy XI: Thief
http://ffxiclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Thief

And your point is?! Can you link the “Ninja” class from GW2 wiki please? or the Thief class from GW1. Wait. You can’t. Ninja/sin/thief have things in common across the board. Stealth actions and burst damage. While your post is baffling, it means pretty much nothing. If GW2 would have Sin and Ninja as specializations of the thief, it’d probably help putting things in perspective. But it doesn’t.

But then again, we must live in harmony with nature… and the trolls under the bridge.
On topic, asking for class characteristics removal because it annoys people or because some elitists want an easier life in pvp is worse than asking the devs to remove the crippling attack from hyenas. But hey! When that person asked for it, all the feedback was going the same way “l2p so you can live with it, hyena’s cripples are okay”

I really enjoy all the low skill players trying to refute his points, top kek swine.

StickerHappy.8052:

Hi teef, most if not all thieves here does not play High tier pvp, or even ESLs, or Academy gaming, you can’t simply make them understand what you’re saying SO, you wouldn’t get any constructive replies here. Its like all thief threads here, for some reason all thief replies you will be getting are the raging types.

I guess we really need player MMR right when someone posts.

Flaming is still here woudln’t really change much, at least we could know who does have a clue and who simply doesn’t.

Mrbig.8019:

StickerHappy.8052:

Hi teef, most if not all thieves here does not play High tier pvp, or even ESLs, or Academy gaming, you can’t simply make them understand what you’re saying SO, you wouldn’t get any constructive replies here. Its like all thief threads here, for some reason all thief replies you will be getting are the raging types.

I guess we really need player MMR right when someone posts.

Flaming is still here woudln’t really change much, at least we could know who does have a clue and who simply doesn’t.

If you do play on those I mentioned above, you would probably knew some of them thieves here already.

style.6173:

Elitist.8701:

Hi frands, Teef Teef Teef Teef here, retired best multiclass NA!

For someone who has retired, you sure post a lot. You remind me of an ex who can’t let go. Just like an ex, you have two options: 1. beg a team to take you back. 2. move on and play a different game.

Im plat 1 in league, and I wouldn’t come back to the game unless I got into the Abjured cuz then I could farm free money off of Anet. I’m just highlighting the biggest problem I saw in PvP when I still played and how Anet could potentially fix PvP and bring people back.

@Dr GonzoWithout Thieves Mesmer would be OP???? LOL. Go play a Mesmer and tell me that they’re on the same tier as thief. Unlike Thief who can faceroll 1-2-3 in teamfights then insta-disengage, Mesmer has a very hard time doing damage. Even if there wer no thieves mesmer would still be a high skill floor class and would definitely not be OP because the class has clear weaknesses and counterplay unlike Thief. Same for rangers, but they’re easier to play, in exchange for less utility.

Elitist.8701:

style.6173:

Elitist.8701:

Hi frands, Teef Teef Teef Teef here, retired best multiclass NA!

For someone who has retired, you sure post a lot. You remind me of an ex who can’t let go. Just like an ex, you have two options: 1. beg a team to take you back. 2. move on and play a different game.

Im plat 1 in league, and I wouldn’t come back to the game unless I got into the Abjured cuz then I could farm free money off of Anet. I’m just highlighting the biggest problem I saw in PvP when I still played and how Anet could potentially fix PvP and bring people back.

@Dr GonzoWithout Thieves Mesmer would be OP???? LOL. Go play a Mesmer and tell me that they’re on the same tier as thief. Unlike Thief who can faceroll 1-2-3 in teamfights then insta-disengage, Mesmer has a very hard time doing damage. Even if there wer no thieves mesmer would still be a high skill floor class and would definitely not be OP because the class has clear weaknesses and counterplay unlike Thief. Same for rangers, but they’re easier to play, in exchange for less utility.

I play mesmer for 3 days now (mainly playing thief before that)
I must say, once you get used to shattering, beating people up is even easier on mesmer. Especially with the high ground on legacy of foefire.

You are a bad mesmer.

With mesmer only shoutbows seem challenging because it takes forever to take down those passive healing kittens. I’d much rather ANet look into that particular build first. It seems kittened for a shoutbow to survive 3 burst players for more than 20 secs <o>

Covis.6037:

remove vampirism + passive stealth proc.

This. If the Thief gets caught with it’s pants down then no automatic things shouldn’t save it.

Other than that, it’s fine imo. When there’s a thief in play you take it into account. You don’t engage a 1v1 with some bunker and hope you get +1ed before they do. You go and +1 someone else. Or do a map objective. What ever. Play with the thief in mind.

Thief needs a rework. The concept of initiative is interesting in theory, but kind of destroys the rhythm of combat in practice. The least they could do is give infiltrators arrow a 15s CD and make it cost 3 initiative instead of 6.

The class that ruins competitive pvp is the class that kills you.

theonewhoknocks.8641:

Covis.6037:

remove vampirism + passive stealth proc.

This. If the Thief gets caught with it’s pants down then no automatic things shouldn’t save it.

Other than that, it’s fine imo. When there’s a thief in play you take it into account. You don’t engage a 1v1 with some bunker and hope you get +1ed before they do. You go and +1 someone else. Or do a map objective. What ever. Play with the thief in mind.

Its nothing to do with that. Thief has been required since the game launched. That isnt a good state of affairs.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Elitist.8701:

style.6173:

Elitist.8701:

Hi frands, Teef Teef Teef Teef here, retired best multiclass NA!

For someone who has retired, you sure post a lot. You remind me of an ex who can’t let go. Just like an ex, you have two options: 1. beg a team to take you back. 2. move on and play a different game.

Im plat 1 in league, and I wouldn’t come back to the game unless I got into the Abjured cuz then I could farm free money off of Anet. I’m just highlighting the biggest problem I saw in PvP when I still played and how Anet could potentially fix PvP and bring people back.

@Dr GonzoWithout Thieves Mesmer would be OP???? LOL. Go play a Mesmer and tell me that they’re on the same tier as thief. Unlike Thief who can faceroll 1-2-3 in teamfights then insta-disengage, Mesmer has a very hard time doing damage. Even if there wer no thieves mesmer would still be a high skill floor class and would definitely not be OP because the class has clear weaknesses and counterplay unlike Thief. Same for rangers, but they’re easier to play, in exchange for less utility.

I play mesmer for 3 days now (mainly playing thief before that)
I must say, once you get used to shattering, beating people up is even easier on mesmer. Especially with the high ground on legacy of foefire.

You are a bad mesmer.

With mesmer only shoutbows seem challenging because it takes forever to take down those passive healing kittens. I’d much rather ANet look into that particular build first. It seems kittened for a shoutbow to survive 3 burst players for more than 20 secs <o>

duel my thief on your mesmer please, hint: i don’t have a thief, i have to create one first.

if you interested, PM me on forum, i’ll be so happy to show you how wrong and clueless you are..

“Competitive”:

" The Competitive Game "

“Competition is very easy to create. You only need an activity both sides want to be best at and you are done. However, the quality of said competitive sport is not as easily discernible, there are few qualities that control it. First, and this is really a no-brainer, the activity needs to be FAIR, it would be a pretty hollow experience if it was not fair. After all, what would be the point of Olympic track and field if one athlete could just blaze the trail with his fast power bike?”

“Even playing field promises that it is only the personal hard work and talent which will lead one to victory. Of course, such a simple issue as fairness becomes more complex because games do not like “evening the playing field”. Sports take mirror matches as granted because that is the best way ensure balance! But nooo, video games want to be unique, especially AoS (moba) genre where mirror matches are impossible. This begs the question, how fair is _ games? This is crucial, because an unfair game can’t have any credibility at all, it can not function as a competitive sport "

" Measuring Balance: Measuring Skill "

“The next important concept is to make sure the competitive game is capable of dissecting skill levels. Games where everyone is equal makes a poor competitive game, and a game where nobody is equal makes a great competitive game. The better the game is at splitting up even the best players into clear pecking order, the easier it is to find out who is the best player. Finding the best player is of course the whole point of competitive games anyway”.

“To see how it is done best, you must look at something else than sports or video games, you need to study education. And not any education, math! Math tests are amazing when it comes to separating even the 2nd best from the 1.5th best. Progressive difficulty in math questions surely filters out everyone to their respective skill levels at utter efficiency. The first questions are always easy algebra that everyone knows (unless you really really suck at math)".

“By the time you are talking about imaginary numbers and logarithms, you have dropped most people off the track, yet it is not over, the difficulty will rise until even the smartest of nerds can’t answer anymore. This is important! It is optimal for the difficulty ceiling of the game to be a step ahead of the player base”.

“If fairness is the bone structure of a good competitive game, this idea is the meat. Understanding and building on this skill separation in game design is what at the end of the day makes or breaks a competitive game. But remember, the word “difficulty” is ambiguous here. It does not mean just harder, it can mean a whole spectrum of skillsets varying from mechanical skill to understanding, be it more depth, more freedom, more choices, whatever. Keep the player learning, not with arbitrary means but with good quality game design".

" Afterword "

“Competitive games naturally conflicts with a casual community because it requires a lot of dedication and discipline from the player-base. The reason for this is the simple fact that not everyone can play to be the best and still enjoy the experience. The frustration can escalate even higher when you are on the receiving end of dying to things you do not understand or can’t fight against".

“3 Keys to a Great Competitive Game”

1 key

" Eliminating Glitches with Developer-Intended Gameplay ":

“It’s important to realize that for a broad swath of gamers, use of any non-developer intended gameplay is viewed with equal disdain. While it may be easy enough to say “no Johns” and move on, at the end of the day the presence of competitive glitches is simply bad for business. Most crucially, glitches create a divide in the community between those who perceive glitching as cheating and those who embrace it with a playing-to-win attitude".

“While the discovery and implementation of these hidden mechanics kept the hardcore entertained, they created a significant barrier to entry, in terms of both attitude and skill. The result is that playing competitively became an arduous opt-in process”.

" There are few things that will make a player chuck a title to the local used-game shop faster than being repeatedly thrashed by a glitch they don’t even understand. It feels like cheating, like being violated, and you certainly can’t expect players to stick around for future expansions if they feel that their only options in multiplayer are cheating or losing".

Im glad you arent making balance decisions. You know nothing about the game from what I read. Vampirism runes are op atm yes, panic strike is pretty cheesy in terms of improvisation procs being too RNG and the spec has great survival for a zerker. Im all for toning down certain things but then you have look at engi passive burn and passive condi removal trait, necro downstate damage and spinal shivers, passive dps guard chill proc, air fire sigils ect and im pretty sure the list could go on. And rotation wise the current meta spec cannot instakill every 2v1 under most circumstances, this is a gross exaggeration for example common 1v1 nodefights occur between 2 celes lets say the thief reinforces midway through the fight he is highly unlikely to kill the cele in reasonable time, and if the thief is able to you are either being snowballed, you are zerker or you are losing the 1v1 badly enough to get instakilled and the thief is probably wasting time helping +1 creating a disadvantage for his team somewhere else. Take thieves out of the meta and all you are doing is buffing cele stacking and staff eles in particular which is far more cancerous than a thief(not to mention more boring to play and far less punishing/lower skill). If you play with a competent team you should be able to keep track of the thief and play smart when hes in stealth. The fact that the thief is in the metagame allows for some high skillcap plays and punishes bad rotations lack of map awareness and sloppy communication, but I doubt you have ever played seriously OP so im probably wasting my words.

babayum.1895:

glock.6590:

babayum.1895:

glock.6590:

Thief is not not OP but its game breaking . Even if they nerf it more than they already did it will still be broken due to the core mechanics of the class. The only solution is to redesign the class or leave it that way.

You could literally nerf everything by 30% and it would still be broken . Because other classes can’t match an initiative system which allows to spam daze/blind , high stealth/ evade uptime depeding on the build and multiple instant gap closers.

And long stealth duration in conquest is just stupid. If a thief goes stealth near your close point, you basically either have to afk there or move and get decapped 3 seconds later. No matter what you do ,the thief wins by making you waste time or kill your teammates outnumbered while you sit there and wonder if you gonna get decapped or not.

Stealth duration need a nerf for sure. Getting 1 sec of stealth for a blast/leap sounds reasonable and 5 sec on shadow refuge would be great too.

Since thief is so “broken” how did abjured win without a thief in their comp with enemy team running one? I mean obviously thief team should have cuz thief prof is so broken in this game, right?

Because they stacked celestial self-sustain bunker classes to win. Thats how. And thats the only reliable counter to thief. Being tanky and having good sustained damage/healing does well against thief.

But thief is so op there is no way to beat it unless it gets nerfed massively?!?!? I am confused now…

Because celesial is already getting nerfed.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Elitist.8701:

style.6173:

Elitist.8701:

Hi frands, Teef Teef Teef Teef here, retired best multiclass NA!

For someone who has retired, you sure post a lot. You remind me of an ex who can’t let go. Just like an ex, you have two options: 1. beg a team to take you back. 2. move on and play a different game.

Im plat 1 in league, and I wouldn’t come back to the game unless I got into the Abjured cuz then I could farm free money off of Anet. I’m just highlighting the biggest problem I saw in PvP when I still played and how Anet could potentially fix PvP and bring people back.

@Dr GonzoWithout Thieves Mesmer would be OP???? LOL. Go play a Mesmer and tell me that they’re on the same tier as thief. Unlike Thief who can faceroll 1-2-3 in teamfights then insta-disengage, Mesmer has a very hard time doing damage. Even if there wer no thieves mesmer would still be a high skill floor class and would definitely not be OP because the class has clear weaknesses and counterplay unlike Thief. Same for rangers, but they’re easier to play, in exchange for less utility.

I play mesmer for 3 days now (mainly playing thief before that)
I must say, once you get used to shattering, beating people up is even easier on mesmer. Especially with the high ground on legacy of foefire.

You are a bad mesmer.

With mesmer only shoutbows seem challenging because it takes forever to take down those passive healing kittens. I’d much rather ANet look into that particular build first. It seems kittened for a shoutbow to survive 3 burst players for more than 20 secs <o>

Either you have very very low mmr (vs new players mesmer is easy) or you are playing hotjoin, or you are a mesmer natural. In that case, please record and post footage of your gameplay so the rest of us can learn.

Pistol 4 is intended to use as an instant interrupt to stop key skills or healing skills. Putting a cast time will literally render the skill utter useless.

They already needed thief mobility when they fixed the patching with SB5. Now I can’t use 90% of the old spots to get around, so we aren’t as mobile as we used to be.

We are meant to excel at 1v1. We and mesmers, which both do pretty well imo. Shatter Mesmer and backstab thief is all about who land their combo first, pretty much.

Saying thief are op are a testament to your skill tbh, because I have no trouble countering them when using other professions….

Geiir.7603:

Pistol 4 is intended to use as an instant interrupt to stop key skills or healing skills. Putting a cast time will literally render the skill utter useless.

They already needed thief mobility when they fixed the patching with SB5. Now I can’t use 90% of the old spots to get around, so we aren’t as mobile as we used to be.

We are meant to excel at 1v1. We and mesmers, which both do pretty well imo. Shatter Mesmer and backstab thief is all about who land their combo first, pretty much.

Saying thief are op are a testament to your skill tbh, because I have no trouble countering them when using other professions….

Opinions are irrelevent. Thief is a mainstay in the meta. It is an “apex predator” spec. These are FACTS not opinions. Look at the team set ups every decent team uses. All have a thief because thief is too strong. Any class required in the meta is too strong and needs significant nerfs. Opinions are irrelevent. If you HAD to run a necro to be competitive that should be nerfed too. Same for any class. Thief is the only class who you HAVE to have really.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Geiir.7603:

Pistol 4 is intended to use as an instant interrupt to stop key skills or healing skills. Putting a cast time will literally render the skill utter useless.

They already needed thief mobility when they fixed the patching with SB5. Now I can’t use 90% of the old spots to get around, so we aren’t as mobile as we used to be.

We are meant to excel at 1v1. We and mesmers, which both do pretty well imo. Shatter Mesmer and backstab thief is all about who land their combo first, pretty much.

Saying thief are op are a testament to your skill tbh, because I have no trouble countering them when using other professions….

Opinions are irrelevent. Thief is a mainstay in the meta. It is an “apex predator” spec. These are FACTS not opinions. Look at the team set ups every decent team uses. All have a thief because thief is too strong. Any class required in the meta is too strong and needs significant nerfs. Opinions are irrelevent. If you HAD to run a necro to be competitive that should be nerfed too. Same for any class. Thief is the only class who you HAVE to have really.

Wrong.
Each team has a Thief, because Thief can do something that other classes can’t, not because Thief is too strong ‘stat’ wise.

I don’t know how to measure MMR but in ranked I’m with almost 60% win rate
However, I play mesmer only in unranked because I’m not confident enough.

Yeah teefs are pain but if I set up first (in a teamfight usually) they die before they could withdraw…

Seriously, necromancers and shoutbow and mediguards seem a lot more scary. If the thief is not skilled or using panic strike build they tend to kitten off.

Now, there was one legendary dude that nailed me with shortbow blasts (that damage is sick yo) but it was mostly my fault. I was going into him to land that torch on reveal hit along with 3 clone shatter in his face. Needless to say, plan backfired lulz.

The build i use is slightly modified traditional shatter from metabattle with rune of vampirism (like everyone else these days)

Just to clarify, I don’t feel myself being pro mesmer. Not even close. But it must be said that the build plays alone…

I’m pretty sure D/D cele eles hate to fight me at waterfall in LoF lol xD
Being able to blink on top of the small hill is kind of hax.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Geiir.7603:

Pistol 4 is intended to use as an instant interrupt to stop key skills or healing skills. Putting a cast time will literally render the skill utter useless.

They already needed thief mobility when they fixed the patching with SB5. Now I can’t use 90% of the old spots to get around, so we aren’t as mobile as we used to be.

We are meant to excel at 1v1. We and mesmers, which both do pretty well imo. Shatter Mesmer and backstab thief is all about who land their combo first, pretty much.

Saying thief are op are a testament to your skill tbh, because I have no trouble countering them when using other professions….

Opinions are irrelevent. Thief is a mainstay in the meta. It is an “apex predator” spec. These are FACTS not opinions. Look at the team set ups every decent team uses. All have a thief because thief is too strong. Any class required in the meta is too strong and needs significant nerfs. Opinions are irrelevent. If you HAD to run a necro to be competitive that should be nerfed too. Same for any class. Thief is the only class who you HAVE to have really.

By this logic we would need to nerf every class that has had a definite spot in the Tpvp meta.

So warriors,guardians, and thieves.

Especially guardian, because very few teams are successful without one.
That class can also shut down thieves.

Morwath.9817:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Geiir.7603:

Pistol 4 is intended to use as an instant interrupt to stop key skills or healing skills. Putting a cast time will literally render the skill utter useless.

They already needed thief mobility when they fixed the patching with SB5. Now I can’t use 90% of the old spots to get around, so we aren’t as mobile as we used to be.

We are meant to excel at 1v1. We and mesmers, which both do pretty well imo. Shatter Mesmer and backstab thief is all about who land their combo first, pretty much.

Saying thief are op are a testament to your skill tbh, because I have no trouble countering them when using other professions….

Opinions are irrelevent. Thief is a mainstay in the meta. It is an “apex predator” spec. These are FACTS not opinions. Look at the team set ups every decent team uses. All have a thief because thief is too strong. Any class required in the meta is too strong and needs significant nerfs. Opinions are irrelevent. If you HAD to run a necro to be competitive that should be nerfed too. Same for any class. Thief is the only class who you HAVE to have really.

Wrong.
Each team has a Thief, because Thief can do something that other classes can’t, not because Thief is too strong ‘stat’ wise.

Thief have mobility and burst damage, or mobility and sustained damage. By your logic we need to nerf every profession since every profession do something that the others can not.

Have you even tried using SB5 lately? They fixed most of the ports which makes it less cheesy. Yes, thieves do still have superior mobility (kind of their thing) and very good burst damage, but we lack aoe damage, support and the ability to soak damage.

Solori.6025:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Geiir.7603:

Pistol 4 is intended to use as an instant interrupt to stop key skills or healing skills. Putting a cast time will literally render the skill utter useless.

They already needed thief mobility when they fixed the patching with SB5. Now I can’t use 90% of the old spots to get around, so we aren’t as mobile as we used to be.

We are meant to excel at 1v1. We and mesmers, which both do pretty well imo. Shatter Mesmer and backstab thief is all about who land their combo first, pretty much.

Saying thief are op are a testament to your skill tbh, because I have no trouble countering them when using other professions….

Opinions are irrelevent. Thief is a mainstay in the meta. It is an “apex predator” spec. These are FACTS not opinions. Look at the team set ups every decent team uses. All have a thief because thief is too strong. Any class required in the meta is too strong and needs significant nerfs. Opinions are irrelevent. If you HAD to run a necro to be competitive that should be nerfed too. Same for any class. Thief is the only class who you HAVE to have really.

By this logic we would need to nerf every class that has had a definite spot in the Tpvp meta.

So warriors,guardians, and thieves.

Especially guardian, because very few teams are successful without one.
That class can also shut down thieves.

Guardian has the same thief issue, always in meta with bunker prof (best bunker pure prof) and now is one of the best zerk build.

So yes, Guardian is historically too strong for conquest comparated to other professions.

Guardian and thief have always a spot in a team.

Something is wrong with that.

Geiir.7603:

Morwath.9817:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Geiir.7603:

Pistol 4 is intended to use as an instant interrupt to stop key skills or healing skills. Putting a cast time will literally render the skill utter useless.

They already needed thief mobility when they fixed the patching with SB5. Now I can’t use 90% of the old spots to get around, so we aren’t as mobile as we used to be.

We are meant to excel at 1v1. We and mesmers, which both do pretty well imo. Shatter Mesmer and backstab thief is all about who land their combo first, pretty much.

Saying thief are op are a testament to your skill tbh, because I have no trouble countering them when using other professions….

Opinions are irrelevent. Thief is a mainstay in the meta. It is an “apex predator” spec. These are FACTS not opinions. Look at the team set ups every decent team uses. All have a thief because thief is too strong. Any class required in the meta is too strong and needs significant nerfs. Opinions are irrelevent. If you HAD to run a necro to be competitive that should be nerfed too. Same for any class. Thief is the only class who you HAVE to have really.

Wrong.
Each team has a Thief, because Thief can do something that other classes can’t, not because Thief is too strong ‘stat’ wise.

Thief have mobility and burst damage, or mobility and sustained damage. By your logic we need to nerf every profession since every profession do something that the others can not.

Have you even tried using SB5 lately? They fixed most of the ports which makes it less cheesy. Yes, thieves do still have superior mobility (kind of their thing) and very good burst damage, but we lack aoe damage, support and the ability to soak damage.

Have I said a word about nerfing anything lately?

Morwath.9817:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Geiir.7603:

Pistol 4 is intended to use as an instant interrupt to stop key skills or healing skills. Putting a cast time will literally render the skill utter useless.

They already needed thief mobility when they fixed the patching with SB5. Now I can’t use 90% of the old spots to get around, so we aren’t as mobile as we used to be.

We are meant to excel at 1v1. We and mesmers, which both do pretty well imo. Shatter Mesmer and backstab thief is all about who land their combo first, pretty much.

Saying thief are op are a testament to your skill tbh, because I have no trouble countering them when using other professions….

Opinions are irrelevent. Thief is a mainstay in the meta. It is an “apex predator” spec. These are FACTS not opinions. Look at the team set ups every decent team uses. All have a thief because thief is too strong. Any class required in the meta is too strong and needs significant nerfs. Opinions are irrelevent. If you HAD to run a necro to be competitive that should be nerfed too. Same for any class. Thief is the only class who you HAVE to have really.

Wrong.
Each team has a Thief, because Thief can do something that other classes can’t, not because Thief is too strong ‘stat’ wise.

Thief makes the game lame. All those times I kite like a boss and line of sight. When there is no thief on the other team its easy. I can stay alive due to skill. I can do good plays. When there is a thief all this is made irrelevant. Thief completely negates good positioning and clever cooldown usage. It is completely broken and it ruins the game. Every other class in the game there is some counterplay to. Thief there is none. If you are low, anywhere on the battlefield, the thief presses 1 button and you are dead….no matter how well you kited, no matter how well you line of sight.