Guild Wars 2

Honestly people complaining about bunker mesmer just need to learn to play. They are unwilling to adapt. That is all there is too it.

My recommendation is to let the meta settle first before making any rash changes. Alot of specs do well at first and then the meta develops to counter them. So we need to leave things as they are for the next 6 months. Then if bunker mesmer is too strong then make a few tiny shaves which are all compensated with buffs to weaker areas of the class.

It is only on the forum that there are cry babies hoping for bunker mesmer to be nerfed. Most of the players I know think it is an interesting spec which isn’t even good.

Trust me, bunker mesmer should NOT be nerfed. And I dont even know how to play mesmer so I am not biassed.

how much did anet pay you?

That would buck the trend of nerfing mesmer to the ground that we’ve seen everyone become so fond of over the past few years.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Most of the players I know think it is an interesting spec which isn’t even good.

I assume you did not watch ESL a few days ago because they are dominate in competitive play which always trickles down to casual play. I play everything but warrior and guardia. This includes a lot of mesmer and even I agree that they are pretty absurd. Their ability to hold points for 30+ seconds against 2-3 people is simply too strong in this meta. It isnt solely an issue with the class itself but rather overarching problems with pvp at the moment that are shown most clearly through bunker mesmers.

Lordrosicky.5813:

bunker mesmer should NOT be nerfed. And I dont even know how to play mesmer

If you don’t have much knowledge about mesmers, then your word isn’t very meaningful is it?

If we were trying to balance the game around professional play, mesmers would be near the top of the nerf list.

Lordrosicky.5813:

This game has lost the little skill it had left imo. I’ll play and have fun. But this is the end of any competitive play this game had left. There is no skill at all. For example, one auto attack from an engineer can inflict around 8 stacks of bleed and 4 burns and other condis. Where is the skill and counter play to this? The only way to avoid damage reliably is to never get hit. Which is not viable because auto attacks happen all the time. Auto attacks doing 12k are not a good thing

Lordrosicky.5813:

Helseth is mediocre at best. Honestly having played vs all these people he is one of the worst of all the “esports” tryhards. People like ROM and Fraelina are much much better than him. They are capable of carrying games whereas helseth is honestly worse than a ton of wvwers I have fought against.

Lordrosicky.5813:

snip

Mesmer was already brokenly good pre patch as a well played mesmer/thief team would beat anything else with ease.
Mesmer and thieves had their fun for the last 3 years. Give them a few years of not being highly sought after in pvp. Really….

Lordrosicky.5813:

Proboably a reason this games pvp never took off as a competitive game is to do ei5h stealth. You are right there is no counter play. I think any aoe that hits a stealthed player should of revealed them. Either way its too late now. The games mechanics are pretty well set and i cant see this game becoming a serious competitive game

Lordrosicky.5813:

Thief is still op. Those saying not just used to get even more carried than currently by the class. So their skill level is lower than their mmr. As in their mmr should be lower based on their skill, so if thief goes from very op to just op then they think its hard.

Thief is still way more op than mesmer for example. Mesmer is just judged by lower standards than thief. Thieves expect to be op. Most other classes base their balance expectations around being balanced.

Thief is second only to ele in terms of opness

I like the bunker mesmer as well. I do think there could be some minor nerfs to the amount of quickness and stability he provides, but not too much. It’s actually a very hard and fun to play build, probably one of the hardest to play bunker/supporters ever. I don’t see a reason to nerf it into the ground.

Common Lordrosicky troll thread! Wp, I hope you got a bit of munchies from those silly bees.

I’ve learnt by now that Anet should do the exact opposite of what Henry suggest. This thread only proves it.

After the title you agree that mesmer might need a nerf. Denial thread.

6 months?… thats… 2 seasons LOL!, buffs/nerf patchs come after every season.. why the hell would u think a meta Lasts 6 months…

gr8 b8 m8 r8 8/8

why are people still falling for this henry? <3

Lordrosicky.5813:

Honestly people complaining about bunker mesmer just need to learn to play. They are unwilling to adapt. That is all there is too it.

My recommendation is to let the meta settle first before making any rash changes. Alot of specs do well at first and then the meta develops to counter them. So we need to leave things as they are for the next 6 months. Then if bunker mesmer is too strong then make a few tiny shaves which are all compensated with buffs to weaker areas of the class.

It is only on the forum that there are cry babies hoping for bunker mesmer to be nerfed. Most of the players I know think it is an interesting spec which isn’t even good.

Trust me, bunker mesmer should NOT be nerfed. And I dont even know how to play mesmer so I am not biassed.

The funny thing is you talk about other people being trolls and its a-ok to ban them forever but in reality you are one of the worst trolls just another stripe. Being facetious and glib doesn’t make it any better. Just because you don’t use inflammatory language or attack anyone personally doens’t make your dumb Troll posts any more acceptable. Hopefully people will wise up and this won’t get to the 100+ responses like your 1000 other fake balance posts.

When mesmer bunkers better than the heavy armor, support oriented class that is designed for bunkering, you know there is a problem

People have been saying that about Cele Ele for the past 1 – 2 years.

The actual reason bunker Mesmer shouldn’t be nerfed is because it has some very strong counters to it in the form of reaper and DH unblockable pressure. The issue is that revenants hardcounter any attempt to run reapers or DHs, which leaves nobody able to take out the mesmers.

If revs are nerfed, you’ll see more reapers and DHs, and all of a sudden the bunker mesmers will be a much more approachable obstacle.

I agree. I think we should buff bunker mesmer and condi revenants. Also, Warriors need to be nerfed please. Ty. I sign the message.

- Bunker mesmer resist a lot but is unable to actually hold points (since distortion prevents capturing).
- Bunder mesmer do no damage and is unable to kill anything.
- Other classes play bunker better.

venusiano.8246:

- Bunker mesmer resist a lot but is unable to actually hold points (since distortion prevents capturing).
- Bunder mesmer do no damage and is unable to kill anything.
- Other classes play bunker better.

The original post is a troll (read his history), but I just want to point out that blur, unlike Distorsion, does not prevent point-capture contribution. So Well of Precognition can be used without losing cap. And mesmer is currently the absolute best pick for a bunker. It can even cure conditions quite well with the Heal mantra.

Fay.2357:

The actual reason bunker Mesmer shouldn’t be nerfed is because it has some very strong counters to it in the form of reaper and DH unblockable pressure.

They help and are the strongEST counters, but not very strong overall; bunker mes is just too much. I main guard. Over the past week of fighting bunker mes I’ve noticed that a good bunker mes who makes note of me will be able to avoid bursts that I set up. Stab on shatter counters my pulls, precog well counters my traps+burst, and their blocks/raw defence/protection counters just about any dps I can output.

Unless it’s 2v1 (or 3v1 if at mid), I usually don’t even try to take out bunker mes, and even then I won’t engage unless my other mate is running some sort of marauder build. It’s just a futile fight. Bunker mes work similar to other bunker builds in the past, but there is even less room to burst them down.

In terms of balance, I honestly I think the best minor nerfs would be to not allow point capture on blurr from precog or sword #2 and perhaps changing precog to only apply blur at the end of the well. Converting these skills to invlun would be a nerf to guards as we wouldn’t be able to pull, so definitely a no to those suggestions.

So all the top tier players that also think bunker mesmer is completely broken like Oeggs or Nos need to learn to play?

A lot of things need nerfs right now, but builds like bunker mesmer and hybrid rev are at the top of that list.

Ele or Engi playing bunker easily own Mesmer. They can actually produce damage while bunking.

Playing a Crusader Druid, I downed a Bunker Mes 1v1 easily, no threat to my health at all and done in less than 30 seconds. You may say he was a crap Mesmer, something I’d actively encourage as he’d had a go at me two games before for being bad (oh, the satisfaction).

There is clear counterplay to them. I think most people have a problem because the windows where they’re vulnerable are too narrow, but once you get them its a very easy fight, so I don’t mind that, just don’t get caught in the CC, i.e don’t stand in the red circles.

The one thing I would say though that makes them so powerful is their ability to res. Projectile destruction, and stability + distortion on the body is too kitten powerful, the one thing that could actually use a tweak imo.

jonnis.2946:

Playing a Crusader Druid, I downed a Bunker Mes 1v1 easily, no threat to my health at all and done in less than 30 seconds. You may say he was a crap Mesmer, something I’d actively encourage as he’d had a go at me two games before for being bad (oh, the satisfaction).

There is clear counterplay to them. I think most people have a problem because the windows where they’re vulnerable are too narrow, but once you get them its a very easy fight, so I don’t mind that, just don’t get caught in the CC, i.e don’t stand in the red circles.

The one thing I would say though that makes them so powerful is their ability to res. Projectile destruction, and stability + distortion on the body is too kitten powerful, the one thing that could actually use a tweak imo.

You forgot quickness while ressing too, also 10% increased speed from trait .

dank.3680:

You forgot quickness while ressing too, also 10% increased speed from trait .

You’re absolutely right, the quickness is what really wrecks it. I don’t consider the 10% additional speed overpowered as every class has access to it, but it increases the problem undoubtedly.

Being fair I said a slight tweak, I think its completely broken, there’s no counterplay to that res whatsoever. They don’t even need the feedback, if they have cooldowns up they can make both the resser and downed immune to damage, and get them up quicker than anyone else can. Maybe you can CC the downed? not sure

MadVisions.4529:

Lordrosicky.5813:

This game has lost the little skill it had left imo. I’ll play and have fun. But this is the end of any competitive play this game had left. There is no skill at all. For example, one auto attack from an engineer can inflict around 8 stacks of bleed and 4 burns and other condis. Where is the skill and counter play to this? The only way to avoid damage reliably is to never get hit. Which is not viable because auto attacks happen all the time. Auto attacks doing 12k are not a good thing

Lordrosicky.5813:

Helseth is mediocre at best. Honestly having played vs all these people he is one of the worst of all the “esports” tryhards. People like ROM and Fraelina are much much better than him. They are capable of carrying games whereas helseth is honestly worse than a ton of wvwers I have fought against.

Lordrosicky.5813:

snip

Mesmer was already brokenly good pre patch as a well played mesmer/thief team would beat anything else with ease.
Mesmer and thieves had their fun for the last 3 years. Give them a few years of not being highly sought after in pvp. Really….

Lordrosicky.5813:

Proboably a reason this games pvp never took off as a competitive game is to do ei5h stealth. You are right there is no counter play. I think any aoe that hits a stealthed player should of revealed them. Either way its too late now. The games mechanics are pretty well set and i cant see this game becoming a serious competitive game

Lordrosicky.5813:

Thief is still op. Those saying not just used to get even more carried than currently by the class. So their skill level is lower than their mmr. As in their mmr should be lower based on their skill, so if thief goes from very op to just op then they think its hard.

Thief is still way more op than mesmer for example. Mesmer is just judged by lower standards than thief. Thieves expect to be op. Most other classes base their balance expectations around being balanced.

Thief is second only to ele in terms of opness

hahahahahaha
HAHAHAHA

AHAHAHA

got eem

Ozzy.2056:

Their ability to hold points for 30+ seconds against 2-3 people is simply too strong in this meta. It isnt solely an issue with the class itself but rather overarching problems with pvp at the moment that are shown most clearly through bunker mesmers.

This is the exact reason why they’re considered OP. Not even Bunker Guardian pre-patch meta (before the June patch) could bunk as efficiently as the current Bunker Mesmer has shown in TPvP. It’s ridiculous.

Toss bait out to the pvp forums and you’ll receive.

Just another bait thread.

I don’t have a problem with Mesmers, but with Dragonhunters, please. Nerf those kitten traps.

It’s not that bunker mesmer is overpowered, it’s that it is game breaking. As a support, it has only a few windows inbetween blocks, dodges, skill-evades, and invulnerabilities in which it can be hit, meanwhile it can be supported in turn by its allies, and hit you. It can extend those evades and invulnerabilities to its allies, heal its allies, heal itself, cleanse a lot of condis for itself, is mobile, and can cleanse some condis for allies, in addition to supplying a lot of alacrity and quickness. Its weakness is being able to support its team with condi cleanse, which was where necros and mallyx revenants came in. Until, people realised mallyx didn’t need much condi cleanse support because it had a lot of resistance. Because both builds - mallyx revenant and bunker mesmer - are mobile and have both offensive and defensive support and utility, they didn’t need to have any lackings made up for by any other class or role, allowing them to simply stack twice. Now the team has two of each of these things with no weaknesses. Still, there’s a 5th slot... Swap the revenant’s glint to shiro giving them more self-survivability and mobility, and take a tempest as the 5th to maintain that boon support and boom.

None of these builds are overpowered alone, but they are collectively.

Edit: and this is coming from someone who was still optimistic a week ago that things would once again change resulting from weaknesses here and there. I’m sad to be proven wrong this time. While it’s possibly to compete with other sustain comps because the damage pressure isn’t all that great if you have a means to deal with the condi pressure, it’d still be a stalemate in an match between equally skilled, because no one would be able to kill each other being so dang tanky. That’s another reason 2x bunker mesmer and 2x mallyx is meta over the older bunker sustain compositions - because they have pressure enough to eventually kill anything that is running less than full sustain.

Impact.2780:

It’s not that bunker mesmer is overpowered, it’s that it is game breaking. As a support, it has only a few windows inbetween blocks, dodges, skill-evades, and invulnerabilities in which it can be hit, meanwhile it can be supported in turn by its allies, and hit you. It can extend those evades and invulnerabilities to its allies, heal its allies, heal itself, cleanse a lot of condis for itself, is mobile, and can cleanse some condis for allies, in addition to supplying a lot of alacrity and quickness. Its weakness is being able to support its team with condi cleanse, which was where necros and mallyx revenants came in. Until, people realised mallyx didn’t need much condi cleanse support because it had a lot of resistance. Because both builds – mallyx revenant and bunker mesmer – are mobile and have both offensive and defensive support and utility, they didn’t need to have any lackings made up for by any other class or role, allowing them to simply stack twice. Now the team has two of each of these things with no weaknesses. Still, there’s a 5th slot… Swap the revenant’s glint to shiro giving them more self-survivability and mobility, and take a tempest as the 5th to maintain that boon support and boom.

None of these builds are overpowered alone, but they are collectively.

Very good analysis, though I will add that tempest holds the cheese sauce together quite well since it can be built to have a lot of AoE cleanse with soldier runes and cleansing water with shouts. As if the infinite protection wasn’t good enough.