Guild Wars 2

Would be nice if you finally started to balance classes around their own abilities. If your spec is viable right now depends on your sigil and rune synergie. Warrior gets 2 weapon swap sigil every 5 secs, good synergie. Zerkers get air/fire proc every few seconds. I´m just tired of dealing with pasive procs, like you run up to an engi with 3 stacks intelligence, doom, leeching and his first hit passively deals 6sec burn, 6 sec poison, crits you 100% and leeches 1k hp.

I really hope that sigils in the future become more of a tweak towards what you face instead of defining builds. Good example here is nullification sigil. Obviously same goes for runes. Having a viable short cd heal is a huge advantage in terms if sigil synergie. The active effect of some sigils like vampirism are just broken.

If mesmers autoattack wouldnt hit 3 times, this broken synergie you can see in this picture would never occure
http://fs1.directupload.net/images/150513/j9nypy6v.jpg

I don’t know why this is an issue all of a sudden. If you remove the sigils from the current specs such as shoutbow, its not like the spec will become unviable, just weaker. The build itself is strong, and assuming that air/fire and swap sigils etc carry builds is so kitten incorrect!

Anyways, this is the gw2 pvp system, and I don’t think it will be changed. (I hope it doesn’t).

Instead of people crying like little babies, may be you should propose changes! Changes are actual changes, definitions, not a ideology. Don’t say “sigils should be this way”, instead say “This sigil is like this _ and should change to this_”

I already explained why sigils should be weaker (not defining builds). Doesnt matter if you tweak the damage or the internal cooldown.

The issue doesnt exsist all of a sudden, it has been there for 1 year. And you are incorrect, sigils and runes do carry builds.

Blackjack.5621:

I already explained why sigils should be weaker (not defining builds). Doesnt matter if you tweak the damage or the internal cooldown.

The issue doesnt exsist all of a sudden, it has been there for 1 year. And you are incorrect, sigils and runes do carry builds.

Just quit like everybody else lol.

They don’t really care, balance has gone towards more and more power creep than ever, it ain’t gonna change.

Agreed with the OP.

Mrbig.8019:

Blackjack.5621:

I already explained why sigils should be weaker (not defining builds). Doesnt matter if you tweak the damage or the internal cooldown.

The issue doesnt exsist all of a sudden, it has been there for 1 year. And you are incorrect, sigils and runes do carry builds.

Just quit like everybody else lol.

They don’t really care, balance has gone towards more and more power creep than ever, it ain’t gonna change.

Complaints about turret engi went ignored for months and months and months, until there was a burst of complaint threads here. Perhaps with enough complaints about passives they’ll start to address the undodgeable, uncounterable on-hit passive traits and sigils. Change is possible! We just have to keep nagging.

that screenshot shows you damage taking from multiple sources (mes, warrior), if both are zerker, those amount of procs seem pretty normal.

Kousetsu.1627:

that screenshot shows you damage taking from multiple sources (mes, warrior), if both are zerker, those amount of procs seem pretty normal.

this ^

agreed /free bump

I also very dislike the idea of air+fire being stronger in every way over force+accuracy.

Force you NEED to land your 10k burst, to make it 11k.

Air+fire you need to land autoatack.

cele classes are still 2x stronger than air/fire classes. Need to make sure to lower their sustain by at least 20-25% before nerfing RNG damage.

Flumek.9043:

I also very dislike the idea of air+fire being stronger in every way over force+accuracy.

Force you NEED to land your 10k burst, to make it 11k.

Air+fire you need to land autoatack.

But force + accuracy works better on AOE when hit on multiple foes.
It also yields higher damage if you do consistent damage over a long period of time. That’s why PVE-wise everyone uses force.

Toxsa.2701:

Flumek.9043:

I also very dislike the idea of air+fire being stronger in every way over force+accuracy.

Force you NEED to land your 10k burst, to make it 11k.

Air+fire you need to land autoatack.

But force + accuracy works better on AOE when hit on multiple foes.
It also yields higher damage if you do consistent damage over a long period of time. That’s why PVE-wise everyone uses force.

PvE mobs don’t dodge… Try to stay focused on PvP here xD

Eh, the first example seems to be more about Engi kit swapping than the actual procs themselves. The mesmer issue is more about precision which procs the sigils themselves. If the intent of precision based amulets was to pair it with only one defensive stat or none, then the debate should be about the 10% reduction in crit chance that celestial has vs other amulets and if that is fair given it’s defensive and offensive stats. However, normal weapon swapping and procs has it’s own synergy which is not passive since you have to swap to trigger. I pair my sigils with my skills and swap to create synergy so it’s not like I’m swapping randomly.

There is passive condition cleanse to counter passive conditions. There is passive protection to counter passive damage. As noted, passive boon strip to counter passive boon application. So if you get rid of one, you get rid of them all. You would have to see where that changed the flow of fighting.

I’ve already made a post about how to make fun sigils.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-to-Make-Fun-Sigils

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with the idea wabout Fire and Air sigils, except for one thing, Fire Sigil can critical (which ironically, can also trigger air sigil itself).

If sigils or trait proc’ing cannot land a critical hit, it will save a lot of headaches, preventing instant cast from traits from dealing 4-6k more INSTANT damage from critical and sigil procing.

Which, I also made a thread on: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Make-it-so-trait-procing-cannot-crit/

Remember when Mug would hit 6k? It was instant cast and was a big problem. You could smash a thief onto his butt, then down you with a steal. With Discharge Lightning and Chill of Death now in the meta stamp for the same problem, traits dealing instant damage, which also triggers the sigils.
As for Static Discharge, buff the damage, move to grandmaster, problem solved.

_

Fire and Air isn’t a massive problem, just tone the amount of instant critical.
Have it so player skills can ONLY land criticals.

Fire and Air need to go: unavoidable procs need to go – less RNG, more skill!

Just make change from on crit to on hit and nerf their dmg.

Coulter.2315:

PvE mobs don’t dodge… Try to stay focused on PvP here xD

Pretty sure there’s a handful of svanir mobs who actually actively dodges stuff as a leftover from before they dumbed down the AI to make PvE easier back before launch.

Blackjack.5621:

I already explained why sigils should be weaker (not defining builds). Doesnt matter if you tweak the damage or the internal cooldown.

The issue doesnt exsist all of a sudden, it has been there for 1 year. And you are incorrect, sigils and runes do carry builds.

Every trait/skill/rune is build defining. If you don’t like rng then you’re asking for the removal of something that’s been in rpgs since board games. Fire and Air isn’t based on chance. It’s based on expectation.

If you nerf the very damage that most zerk builds expect to have then they better receive some type of static trait or an increase of global damage (or sustain reductions from others) in compensation.

What i’m saying is, it’s part of the game’s balance system whether you want to believe that or not. This is true because every single aspect of this game had a QQ thread at one point or another. Top tier teams don’t lose ESL and make threads about air/fire sigils. Same goes for power ranger bursts, 7k lich forms, medi guard’s sustains and every other element that lower tier, solo players, have complain about.

Anet knows game balance is in effect when everythings OP. Down to the last 900 damage in 5s sigils.

Hydromancy is going to be worse in HoT thanks to the introduction of Slow ;) just saiying.

Saiyan.1704:

If you nerf the very damage that most zerk builds expect to have then they better receive some type of static trait or an increase of global damage (or sustain reductions from others) in compensation.

Nobody would have a problem with keeping the total damage high by buffing passive-damage sigils. The sigils can even give extra damage spikes tied to specific actions that are dodge-able (interrupt a skill, tied ONLY to an auto-attack, next attack AFTER a crit, etc.). The WORST part of these procs is that they are IMPOSSIBLE to mitigate. Even though people hate a lot of the instants like steal/arcane skills/etc., they at least punish the user for not timing them well. Air/Fire/IP/Spinal Shivers/etc. are GUARANTEED damage spikes, often tied to random hits like an auto-attack.

While not an ideal redesign, they could at least make it “next attack after a crit” so these effects are dodge-able.

glock.6590:

cele classes are still 2x stronger than air/fire classes. Need to make sure to lower their sustain by at least 20-25% before nerfing RNG damage.

We can nerf everything in this game.

Literally EVERYTHING.

Strong sigils (+ rune and amulet) are what makes the game more, not less balanced, because those are all things that every class can pick up. Spoiler alert: it’s traits that screw up balance the most! The sigil effects proccing passively versus them requiring some more skillful actions is a whole another problem that has nothing to do with the strength of their effects.
Now are all the sigils balanced in terms of power each one offers? Heck no, but there are enough choices to put all the other components of build theorycrafting to shame.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Fire Sigil can critical (which ironically, can also trigger air sigil itself).

Neither Flame Blast or Lightning Strike from Sigils can be criticals. Feel free to go test it with 100% crit chance.

Aktium.9506:

Nova Stiker.8396:

Fire Sigil can critical (which ironically, can also trigger air sigil itself).

Neither Flame Blast or Lightning Strike from Sigils can be criticals. Feel free to go test it with 100% crit chance.

your right they cant crit but what about random damage procs like dodgerolls, i once 100/0d a thief because he hit me as i dodged and proced my dodge roll damage/fire/air/bunker down mine and rune of air, bursting people like this with random procs inst as rare as youd think either.

Blackjack.5621:

Would be nice if you finally started to balance classes around their own abilities. If your spec is viable right now depends on your sigil and rune synergie. Warrior gets 2 weapon swap sigil every 5 secs, good synergie. Zerkers get air/fire proc every few seconds. I´m just tired of dealing with pasive procs, like you run up to an engi with 3 stacks intelligence, doom, leeching and his first hit passively deals 6sec burn, 6 sec poison, crits you 100% and leeches 1k hp.

I really hope that sigils in the future become more of a tweak towards what you face instead of defining builds. Good example here is nullification sigil. Obviously same goes for runes. Having a viable short cd heal is a huge advantage in terms if sigil synergie. The active effect of some sigils like vampirism are just broken.

If mesmers autoattack wouldnt hit 3 times, this broken synergie you can see in this picture would never occure
http://fs1.directupload.net/images/150513/j9nypy6v.jpg

I thought at first that this was a post about the limited effectiveness of half the elementalist’s attunements, meaning that many people primarily toggle these two elements.

What a shame. Nobody cares about eles.

I agree that sigils should not be as build defining as they are currently. Someone with Air&Fire can miss a bunch of attacks but connect with one auto attack that procs both and suddenly you’re missing a huge chunk of your health. For example, fighting a D/P teef as a Mesmer, you’re doing OK then suddenly 1 backstab hits for 6K+Fire+Air and you’re dead.

I feel equally as bad when I don’t play well but win due to lucky sigil procs on Mes, SD Engi, or Greatbow War. I didn’t EARN that damage, it was given to me for basically free. The same applies to traits like Incendiary Powered, there’s no way to avoid the burn, it’s going to hit you eventually.

Having Air/Fire not work on AA and trigger after a crit would be a good step. Maybe add a particle effect “aura” around users weapon and if they miss that next attack you don’t get the damage and it goes on the ICD. It still wouldn’t be perfect but it would at least make it somewhat predictable.

I would also suggest maybe simply making it impossible to combine two sigils of the same type. Most of the most troublesome combos are of the same type whether it be “on crit” or “on swap.” This would probably solve a decent number of problems and would make other under used sigils more appealing without any sort of direct nerf.

Blackjack.5621:

Would be nice if you finally started to balance classes around their own abilities. If your spec is viable right now depends on your sigil and rune synergie. Warrior gets 2 weapon swap sigil every 5 secs, good synergie. Zerkers get air/fire proc every few seconds. I´m just tired of dealing with pasive procs, like you run up to an engi with 3 stacks intelligence, doom, leeching and his first hit passively deals 6sec burn, 6 sec poison, crits you 100% and leeches 1k hp.

I really hope that sigils in the future become more of a tweak towards what you face instead of defining builds. Good example here is nullification sigil. Obviously same goes for runes. Having a viable short cd heal is a huge advantage in terms if sigil synergie. The active effect of some sigils like vampirism are just broken.

If mesmers autoattack wouldnt hit 3 times, this broken synergie you can see in this picture would never occure
http://fs1.directupload.net/images/150513/j9nypy6v.jpg

Agreed. Fire and air in particular killed all skill this game used to have. Now most damage is from auto attacks and passive procs. So you cant avoid damage by clever use of dodging. The game is not fun to play with fire, air in particular and passives in general

tbh imo it’s not the sigil that makes shoutbow good.
sigils are bonus for shoutbow.
and every single other warrior build is bad with 4 sigil proc.

and tbh i actually like fire air on zerker warrior, because i can actually pressure op zerkers like med guard thief mesmer without the need to use my most obvious huge animation easy dodgeable skills to do damage.

Nova Stiker.8396:

I’ve already made a post about how to make fun sigils.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-to-Make-Fun-Sigils

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with the idea wabout Fire and Air sigils, except for one thing, Fire Sigil can critical (which ironically, can also trigger air sigil itself).

If sigils or trait proc’ing cannot land a critical hit, it will save a lot of headaches, preventing instant cast from traits from dealing 4-6k more INSTANT damage from critical and sigil procing.

Which, I also made a thread on: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Make-it-so-trait-procing-cannot-crit/

Remember when Mug would hit 6k? It was instant cast and was a big problem. You could smash a thief onto his butt, then down you with a steal. With Discharge Lightning and Chill of Death now in the meta stamp for the same problem, traits dealing instant damage, which also triggers the sigils.
As for Static Discharge, buff the damage, move to grandmaster, problem solved.

_

Fire and Air isn’t a massive problem, just tone the amount of instant critical.
Have it so player skills can ONLY land criticals.

Biggest load of rubbish i have ever read.

The damage of the sigils needs to be reduced by 50%ish

choucs.4507:

tbh imo it’s not the sigil that makes shoutbow good.
sigils are bonus for shoutbow.
and every single other warrior build is bad with 4 sigil proc.

Shoutbow without access to Poison from Doom sigil would be a lot weaker. I wouldn’t write off that access to a condition that Warrior isn’t even supposed to have as just a bonus.

glock.6590:

cele classes are still 2x stronger than air/fire classes. Need to make sure to lower their sustain by at least 20-25% before nerfing RNG damage.

Totally incorrect. The game is defined by no skill stealth spikes fro zerker classes who jump someone out of stealth and press 2 buttons and get dem fire and air procs.

And i play necro which cannot use cele but can abuse fire and air. So i am not biassed.

Aktium.9506:

choucs.4507:

tbh imo it’s not the sigil that makes shoutbow good.
sigils are bonus for shoutbow.
and every single other warrior build is bad with 4 sigil proc.

Shoutbow without access to Poison from Doom sigil would be a lot weaker. I wouldn’t write off that access to a condition that Warrior isn’t even supposed to have as just a bonus.

The whole point of a shoutbow now, is to either hold 1v1 or support team fights, cleanse conditions, land your pin down, heal your teammates and land your banner.
poison is only a bonus, in fact if your team plays it right, you shouldn’t even be worrying about poison application.

Lordrosicky.5813:

glock.6590:

cele classes are still 2x stronger than air/fire classes. Need to make sure to lower their sustain by at least 20-25% before nerfing RNG damage.

Totally incorrect. The game is defined by no skill stealth spikes fro zerker classes who jump someone out of stealth and press 2 buttons and get dem fire and air procs.

And i play necro which cannot use cele but can abuse fire and air. So i am not biassed.

you are biased if you play necro. Cuz necros get focused all the time and then just die unless they have an amazing team.

Cele is still stronger, the only reason zerkers are even viable its because its a team game. So 2 people can easely spike some1 down before help arrives. Cele builds are still the best builds cuz they have damage and survivability at the same time.

choucs.4507:

The whole point of a shoutbow now, is to either hold 1v1 or support team fights, cleanse conditions, land your pin down, heal your teammates and land your banner.
poison is only a bonus, in fact if your team plays it right, you shouldn’t even be worrying about poison application.

You underestimate just how much mileage builds like D/D Cele Ele and Shoutbow get out of Poison access against any manner of build with sustain..

glock.6590:

Lordrosicky.5813:

glock.6590:

cele classes are still 2x stronger than air/fire classes. Need to make sure to lower their sustain by at least 20-25% before nerfing RNG damage.

Totally incorrect. The game is defined by no skill stealth spikes fro zerker classes who jump someone out of stealth and press 2 buttons and get dem fire and air procs.

And i play necro which cannot use cele but can abuse fire and air. So i am not biassed.

you are biased if you play necro. Cuz necros get focused all the time and then just die unless they have an amazing team.

Cele is still stronger, the only reason zerkers are even viable its because its a team game. So 2 people can easely spike some1 down before help arrives. Cele builds are still the best builds cuz they have damage and survivability at the same time.

Nah thief is the best builds because they 1 shot everything and never die, and setup stealth spikes which you dont even need ts for. Perma aoe stealth class with ports for days and the ability to insta gib anything in the game..

Combine this overlord with any other zerker with fire and air and you get double fire and air procs out of stealth for 15k auto attack spikes

Aktium.9506:

choucs.4507:

The whole point of a shoutbow now, is to either hold 1v1 or support team fights, cleanse conditions, land your pin down, heal your teammates and land your banner.
poison is only a bonus, in fact if your team plays it right, you shouldn’t even be worrying about poison application.

You underestimate just how much mileage builds like D/D Cele Ele and Shoutbow get out of Poison access against any manner of build with sustain..

does it matter? you are not going to 1v1 any of the dps class because you can win them without poison. and you will be 1v1 another shoutheal or ele who can cleanse the poison insanely easy and even with the poison the fight would last long enough for some one to plus one.
and as a shoutheal you shouldn’t even be 1v1ing to begin with.

choucs.4507:

Aktium.9506:

choucs.4507:

tbh imo it’s not the sigil that makes shoutbow good.
sigils are bonus for shoutbow.
and every single other warrior build is bad with 4 sigil proc.

Shoutbow without access to Poison from Doom sigil would be a lot weaker. I wouldn’t write off that access to a condition that Warrior isn’t even supposed to have as just a bonus.

The whole point of a shoutbow now, is to either hold 1v1 or support team fights, cleanse conditions, land your pin down, heal your teammates and land your banner.
poison is only a bonus, in fact if your team plays it right, you shouldn’t even be worrying about poison application.

Playing shoutbow well has always been about landing your swaps.

Lordrosicky.5813:

choucs.4507:

Aktium.9506:

choucs.4507:

tbh imo it’s not the sigil that makes shoutbow good.
sigils are bonus for shoutbow.
and every single other warrior build is bad with 4 sigil proc.

Shoutbow without access to Poison from Doom sigil would be a lot weaker. I wouldn’t write off that access to a condition that Warrior isn’t even supposed to have as just a bonus.

The whole point of a shoutbow now, is to either hold 1v1 or support team fights, cleanse conditions, land your pin down, heal your teammates and land your banner.
poison is only a bonus, in fact if your team plays it right, you shouldn’t even be worrying about poison application.

Playing shoutbow well has always been about landing your swaps.

except the fact that is not the point of a shoutbow in a team.
if they want more damage on a bunker they would have used DD ele instead.
after the might nerf, shoutbow’s damage in a team fight is minimum. specially in zerker meta.

cut the damage for both sigils in half. start there and tweak if needed but im on the side that random sigil procs are a poor design to get bursted. no counterplay, not fun

Lordrosicky.5813:

choucs.4507:

Aktium.9506:

choucs.4507:

tbh imo it’s not the sigil that makes shoutbow good.
sigils are bonus for shoutbow.
and every single other warrior build is bad with 4 sigil proc.

Shoutbow without access to Poison from Doom sigil would be a lot weaker. I wouldn’t write off that access to a condition that Warrior isn’t even supposed to have as just a bonus.

The whole point of a shoutbow now, is to either hold 1v1 or support team fights, cleanse conditions, land your pin down, heal your teammates and land your banner.
poison is only a bonus, in fact if your team plays it right, you shouldn’t even be worrying about poison application.

Playing shoutbow well has always been about landing your swaps.

as your teamates can insta burst anyone so is your enemies, your weapon swap is merely a bonus damage on top of the real role of a shoutheal warrior.

if you expect your weapon swaps to win the match, it’s not going to happen.

Jelzouki.4128:

I don’t know why this is an issue all of a sudden. If you remove the sigils from the current specs such as shoutbow, its not like the spec will become unviable, just weaker. The build itself is strong, and assuming that air/fire and swap sigils etc carry builds is so kitten incorrect!

Air+Fire and swap sigils being a problem is nothing new. They’ve been a problem since the sigil buffs over a year ago. It’s just been overshadowed by threads about celestial amulet, turret engineer, and matchmaking.

The OP was a little off the mark with stating that certain sigils make builds viable. It could be strongly argued for some sigils, particularly Sigil of Intelligence. But for the most part, sigils give the “top” builds too much of an advantage which they wouldn’t otherwise have over the vast pool of “almost top” builds.

Air+Fire is a problem because of the burst damage it provides, especially with builds which already have high burst damage. Throwing an extra 1300+1000 damage on top of profession skills can make a difference between life and death. And the sigil proc damage is unavoidable as long as the attack lands, isn’t consumed if the attack doesn’t land, and doesn’t pre-empt used of another skill. Further, these burst builds can often stall for the 5 seconds needed for the internal cooldown of the sigils and burst with them again. Losing over 10% of your HP to sigil procs every time the combo procs and not being able to stop it is not fun and not good for skillful play.

As a comparison, before the sigil changes, you could only benefit from one of the two, and it had a lower chance to proc, causing it to not reliably line up with burst. And due to the shared cooldown, it prevented use of other sigil benefits, such as energy.

The swap sigils are only problems on engineer and elementalist, because their constant swapping can trigger the sigils very close to the ICD, and on warriors with Fast Hands, who effectively have 4 sigils active at the same time. The swap sigils were balanced with the assumption that it’s unlikely to be swapping on cooldown all the time. As such, their effects are a little stronger. But when you take away that assumption, the sigils become a little too good. In particular, Sigil of Doom grants a powerful debuff (healing reduction) that is not native to elementalist and warrior.

Similar to Air+Fire, the shared cooldown before the sigil changes made swap sigils less prominent; all three of those professions could only benefit from one swap sigil.

Instead of people crying like little babies, may be you should propose changes!

I don’t know about that. Some developers don’t like overly detailed lists of changes. A general suggestion or concise explanation of the problem is arguably better.

Popular Sigils just do too much damage or have too big of a benefit (Sigil of Energy).

For sigils which are purely damage, if you use Sigil of Force (+5% damage) as a benchmark, you can balance other sigils around it. Sigils which do burst damage should either have their damage spread out more or be much lower than a 5% damage increase over time. Swap sigils should be slightly better than 5% damage if you swap on or close to the cooldown, but worse if you don’t swap often. Condition damage sigils should be balanced assuming a condition damage build and not a power build. By that metric, Sigil of Air should be dealing around half of the damage it currently does. (Note: change could be limited to PvP and WvW)

For sigils which have utility, it’s a bit more subjective and harder to address. The main ones I see as problems are Sigil of Doom (healing reduction) and Sigil of Energy (instantly have enough endurance to dodge is too strong).

Another suggestion is to make sigils of the same type (OnSwap, OnCrit, Stacking on Kill) be mutually exclusive or share cooldowns. Stacking on Kill sigils already act that way. This limits the extent to which elementalist, warrior, and engineer can take advantage of swap sigils and eliminates Air+Fire or Air+Blood.

Saiyan.1704:

Every trait/skill/rune is build defining. If you don’t like rng then you’re asking for the removal of something that’s been in rpgs since board games. Fire and Air isn’t based on chance. It’s based on expectation.

The random factor isn’t the problem; the sigil procs are pretty dependable when using a Berserker amulet. The damage is simply too high.

Top tier teams don’t lose ESL and make threads about air/fire sigils.

You’re right; they win and make threads about it. Tage (from Orange Logo) made one months ago.

choucs.4507:

Aktium.9506:

choucs.4507:

The whole point of a shoutbow now, is to either hold 1v1 or support team fights, cleanse conditions, land your pin down, heal your teammates and land your banner.
poison is only a bonus, in fact if your team plays it right, you shouldn’t even be worrying about poison application.

You underestimate just how much mileage builds like D/D Cele Ele and Shoutbow get out of Poison access against any manner of build with sustain..

does it matter? you are not going to 1v1 any of the dps class because you can win them without poison. and you will be 1v1 another shoutheal or ele who can cleanse the poison insanely easy and even with the poison the fight would last long enough for some one to plus one.
and as a shoutheal you shouldn’t even be 1v1ing to begin with.

As shoutbow you will be forced into 1v1s regardless until someone can come and help you. But really, I can’t take you seriously when you ask whether Doom sigil matters. By all means I implore you to do a few dozen matches as a shoutbow where you use Leeching or Energy as a substitute for Doom. And then you can tell me how it went.

Aktium.9506:

choucs.4507:

Aktium.9506:

choucs.4507:

The whole point of a shoutbow now, is to either hold 1v1 or support team fights, cleanse conditions, land your pin down, heal your teammates and land your banner.
poison is only a bonus, in fact if your team plays it right, you shouldn’t even be worrying about poison application.

You underestimate just how much mileage builds like D/D Cele Ele and Shoutbow get out of Poison access against any manner of build with sustain..

does it matter? you are not going to 1v1 any of the dps class because you can win them without poison. and you will be 1v1 another shoutheal or ele who can cleanse the poison insanely easy and even with the poison the fight would last long enough for some one to plus one.
and as a shoutheal you shouldn’t even be 1v1ing to begin with.

As shoutbow you will be forced into 1v1s regardless until someone can come and help you. But really, I can’t take you seriously when you ask whether Doom sigil matters. By all means I implore you to do a few dozen matches as a shoutbow where you use Leeching or Energy as a substitute for Doom. And then you can tell me how it went.

When you are forced in a 1v1, it’s either another shoutheal or a DD ele or any of the bunkers, you think poison will kill them?

i already have energy on sword why would i swap for another energy, so did tarcis hman and a lot of warriors, after the might nerf+sigil nerf, battle’s benefit is minimum compare to energy in terms of surivbility and damage.

and i never said doom alone is useless, im just saying that sigils for shoutbow is merely a bonus for the most important thing which is heal your teammate, cleanse the conditions, land your snares and land your banner. these are the things that determines the win lose of the match, not your weapon swap that lands poison.

choucs.4507:

Aktium.9506:

choucs.4507:

Aktium.9506:

choucs.4507:

The whole point of a shoutbow now, is to either hold 1v1 or support team fights, cleanse conditions, land your pin down, heal your teammates and land your banner.
poison is only a bonus, in fact if your team plays it right, you shouldn’t even be worrying about poison application.

You underestimate just how much mileage builds like D/D Cele Ele and Shoutbow get out of Poison access against any manner of build with sustain..

does it matter? you are not going to 1v1 any of the dps class because you can win them without poison. and you will be 1v1 another shoutheal or ele who can cleanse the poison insanely easy and even with the poison the fight would last long enough for some one to plus one.
and as a shoutheal you shouldn’t even be 1v1ing to begin with.

As shoutbow you will be forced into 1v1s regardless until someone can come and help you. But really, I can’t take you seriously when you ask whether Doom sigil matters. By all means I implore you to do a few dozen matches as a shoutbow where you use Leeching or Energy as a substitute for Doom. And then you can tell me how it went.

When you are forced in a 1v1, it’s either another shoutheal or a DD ele or any of the bunkers, you think poison will kill them?

Of course not. Poison won’t kill anyone, but when you calculate the loss of healing as damage inflicted due to the poison even with relatively low uptime due to frequent cleanses the damage is up there with Air and Fire. And most D/D Eles won’t instantly blow one of their cantrips just to cleanse conditions they got from a swap, so that Poison will most likely be there until they have enough conditions on them to warrant blowing cantrips for cleanse or until water is off cooldown.

choucs.4507:

i already have energy on sword why would i swap for another energy, so did tarcis hman and a lot of warriors, after the might nerf+sigil nerf, battle’s benefit is minimum compare to energy in terms of surivbility and damage.

So when something that’s too strong is brought down to a level where it’s balanced, players switch to something which else which is too strong. Interesting…

Aktium.9506:

choucs.4507:

Aktium.9506:

choucs.4507:

Aktium.9506:

choucs.4507:

The whole point of a shoutbow now, is to either hold 1v1 or support team fights, cleanse conditions, land your pin down, heal your teammates and land your banner.
poison is only a bonus, in fact if your team plays it right, you shouldn’t even be worrying about poison application.

You underestimate just how much mileage builds like D/D Cele Ele and Shoutbow get out of Poison access against any manner of build with sustain..

does it matter? you are not going to 1v1 any of the dps class because you can win them without poison. and you will be 1v1 another shoutheal or ele who can cleanse the poison insanely easy and even with the poison the fight would last long enough for some one to plus one.
and as a shoutheal you shouldn’t even be 1v1ing to begin with.

As shoutbow you will be forced into 1v1s regardless until someone can come and help you. But really, I can’t take you seriously when you ask whether Doom sigil matters. By all means I implore you to do a few dozen matches as a shoutbow where you use Leeching or Energy as a substitute for Doom. And then you can tell me how it went.

When you are forced in a 1v1, it’s either another shoutheal or a DD ele or any of the bunkers, you think poison will kill them?

Of course not. Poison won’t kill anyone, but when you calculate the loss of healing as damage inflicted due to the poison even with relatively low uptime due to frequent cleanses the damage is up there with Air and Fire. And most D/D Eles won’t instantly blow one of their cantrips just to cleanse conditions they got from a swap, so that Poison will most likely be there until they have enough conditions on them to warrant blowing cantrips for cleanse or until water is off cooldown.

It won’t matter, because the point is to have your DPS plus one you. and bunker spec can cleanse poison almost immediately, that’s like part of why i said they won’t die, so i don’t get your argument.

Exedore.6320:

choucs.4507:

i already have energy on sword why would i swap for another energy, so did tarcis hman and a lot of warriors, after the might nerf+sigil nerf, battle’s benefit is minimum compare to energy in terms of surivbility and damage.

So when something that’s too strong is brought down to a level where it’s balanced, players switch to something which else which is too strong. Interesting…

the zerker comps are way too dangerous, damage is way too high. battle doesnt help tanky specs to survive waves of coordinated bursts is one of the reasons as well

choucs.4507:

Aktium.9506:

choucs.4507:

Aktium.9506:

choucs.4507:

Aktium.9506:

choucs.4507:

The whole point of a shoutbow now, is to either hold 1v1 or support team fights, cleanse conditions, land your pin down, heal your teammates and land your banner.
poison is only a bonus, in fact if your team plays it right, you shouldn’t even be worrying about poison application.

You underestimate just how much mileage builds like D/D Cele Ele and Shoutbow get out of Poison access against any manner of build with sustain..

does it matter? you are not going to 1v1 any of the dps class because you can win them without poison. and you will be 1v1 another shoutheal or ele who can cleanse the poison insanely easy and even with the poison the fight would last long enough for some one to plus one.
and as a shoutheal you shouldn’t even be 1v1ing to begin with.

As shoutbow you will be forced into 1v1s regardless until someone can come and help you. But really, I can’t take you seriously when you ask whether Doom sigil matters. By all means I implore you to do a few dozen matches as a shoutbow where you use Leeching or Energy as a substitute for Doom. And then you can tell me how it went.

When you are forced in a 1v1, it’s either another shoutheal or a DD ele or any of the bunkers, you think poison will kill them?

Of course not. Poison won’t kill anyone, but when you calculate the loss of healing as damage inflicted due to the poison even with relatively low uptime due to frequent cleanses the damage is up there with Air and Fire. And most D/D Eles won’t instantly blow one of their cantrips just to cleanse conditions they got from a swap, so that Poison will most likely be there until they have enough conditions on them to warrant blowing cantrips for cleanse or until water is off cooldown.

It won’t matter, because the point is to have your DPS plus one you. and bunker spec can cleanse poison almost immediately, that’s like part of why i said they won’t die, so i don’t get your argument.

What bunker sets? I almost never run into bunkers these days. Last time I saw a proper bunker guard was ages ago. And no one who is relevant is wasting a cleanse to remove just the conds from a wep switch. What hotjoin-tier players do you play with where they immediately blow cleanses as soon as they see poison on their bar.

OP is right about sigils/runes defining builds, you know

minor balance tweak like turrets took about 1 year to fix so i wouldnt expect less then 2 years for sigil fixes.