Guild Wars 2

geekanerd.4123:

Pizz.3698:

ET giving SF their free fully upgraded garrison and Dawn’s when they have 20-30 people in FCBL. Way to prioritize. +1

Edit: Screenshot

This isn’t unusual. It’s the strategy ET has been deploying for awhile, now. And last time I checked, they were beating Ferg for second (which in this tier is kind of like fighting over the participation award while SF hauls off with the first, second, third place medals, and that trip to Disney World, but I digress). So I guess it’s working? Hey, seems silly to a lot of us over in Ferguson, too, but results are results.

I’m surprised anyone even bothers with upgrades these days. We usually just raid the garrison depot for more supply to batter down the next door.

SF is giving ET so much advice on how to play WvW… If we listened to SF advice we would end up in T8… oh wait we are already in T8. GG. PEW PEW. KITTEN KITTEN… PEW PEW.

LOOT THE GARRISON AND BUILD MOAR GOLEMS!

Jeknar.6184:

LOOT THE GARRISON AND BUILD MOAR GOLEMS!

Don’t forget the part where I get to use the same two catapults put down from 3 hours prior to retake garrison or Quentin Lake a 3rd time during skeleton shift :V

Or the part where my arrow cart inside that garrison is still there after it changes hands 3 times.

Wanderer.3248:

Alchemist.3692:

What I’m trying to say is… while you might whine about 35 zerglings, etc etc. Even when in small groups, unless we’re outnumbered heavily it’s rare we lose the battles. If your people are dying regularly then there isn’t enough support to the defending/attacking groups. It’s more of a L2 kitten ue than zerg size tbh.

So, apparently ET players learn to play every night, and then forget again the next morning.

Tell me ET night capping is not about numbers.

ET players don’t “learn how to play every night” we already know how to play… ET during the night is like SF during the day because we outnumber you during the night. sigh. PEW PEW KITTEN KITTEN PEW PEW

Jeknar.6184:

Here is my ranger with my country colours… (And some ugly octopus on the guild chest)

What bow is that? Looks like the Seraph bow model with gold instead of silver?

Narcissus.1058:

How long has it been since you have seen an FC zerg of more than 15, because its been about a month for me

“Ferg Zerg” is so fun to say that we use it whenever we see more than two FC at the same time.

Less than three FC are just referred to as “Fergies”. Like the princess. The less pretty one.

Wanderer.3248:

What bow is that? Looks like the Seraph bow model with gold instead of silver?

Golden Short Bow – 390 Caudecus Manor Tokens

Hey Fergs; I’ve helped create some unofficial server boards for us to more freely discuss WvWvW over without fear of censorship. Check it out at http://www.fcgw2.com.

well, i dunno about anyone else, but i had a load of fun tonight.

first, i logged on just in time to help defend ET garrison from a rather sizable SF force. eventually pushed them out

they turned their frustrations to our towers. hey look. orange swords at both at once. dunno how much of those forces were SF and how many were ET, but i know that at least at WH there were more SF outside the gate attacking than there were ET inside defending.

finally drove them away from both towers and of course hand to go for supply, whereupon we had an absolutely GLORIOUS open field battle around behind Godslore! omg that was fun!!! we pushed them back, they pushed us back... it went on for what seemed like quite a long time before SF finally pushed us back and out and wiped us. the last shot shows just a PORTION of the forces that faced us in that gully behind Gods as they exit the camp after the final wipe. i wish i had a shot of the actual action.

we may not have won all the fights, and our BL may have turned green not so long afterward, but for a few hours... it was the best of WvW right there.

thank you SF

makes face at SF
nyah!

ColinJohanson.2394:

For the next week, all the medium population servers will be free to transfer to. Might be worth giving one of them a look!

Indeed, now lets hope we can get sufficient numbers to FC to actually be able to capture and hold for substantial amounts of time.

Set up a bunch of trebs and started wrecking havoc around with the fiery rocks (We even took AH outer wall). Had some nice fights today… Defending Stargrove against SF. Defending Greenwater against Fergs and then Greenwater again against SF. Also had a nice duel with everyone’s favorite Forum Troll… And my armor is broken…

Now, back on the game coverage…

OH NOES! FC HAVE MORE THAN DOUBLE OF OUR PPT!!!

insanemaniac.2456:

makes face at SF
nyah!

ColinJohanson.2394:

For the next week, all the medium population servers will be free to transfer to. Might be worth giving one of them a look!

So much rage at ArenaNet right now. Instead of actually fixing the Glicko Ghetto, they instead give free transfers to our T8 enemies and the T7 server that we’ve been trying desperately to swap places with. So this is our “reward” for dominating for 2 months straight? Such bullkitten.

insanemaniac.2456:

makes face at SF
nyah!

ColinJohanson.2394:

For the next week, all the medium population servers will be free to transfer to. Might be worth giving one of them a look!

I’m not entirely worried. Once again they’re doing the utterly stupid thing of basing transfer prices around total server population with zero consideration of 95th percentile WvW population to total population ratio.

Manoa.5897:

So much rage at ArenaNet right now. Instead of actually fixing the Glicko Ghetto, they instead give free transfers to our T8 enemies and the T7 server that we’ve been trying desperately to swap places with. So this is our “reward” for dominating for 2 months straight? Such bullkitten.

Bullkitten is the fact that everyone will chose HoD over ET/FC… T7 having the most balanced matches these weeks will most likely attract people there, while HoD grows and SF stay on Glicko Ghetto get longer…

HoD isn’t suposed to be open for free transfer… I’d rather open it for SF.

ColinJohanson.2394:

For the next week, all the medium population servers will be free to transfer to. Might be worth giving one of them a look!

Confirmed.

I’d recommend for Ferguson’s Crossing and Eredon Terrace hardcore WvW’rs to use this chance to put down old disagreements and make serious concessions on the possibility of combining the WvW core of both servers into one viable serious WvW community, just as SniffyCube always suggested.

I’ll drop a note to my fellows in War Zones regarding this development, unfortunately having stepped down as an officer a while back I no longer carry too much weight on things like this.

I wonder how things will play out, especially considering all three servers should be receiving a possibly major surge in WvW from the changes in the impending patch.

I’m sure people won’t be willing to leave their guilds to join the other server since you cannot transfer all your upgrades and influence…

Jeknar.6184:

Manoa.5897:

So much rage at ArenaNet right now. Instead of actually fixing the Glicko Ghetto, they instead give free transfers to our T8 enemies and the T7 server that we’ve been trying desperately to swap places with. So this is our “reward” for dominating for 2 months straight? Such bullkitten.

Bullkitten is the fact that everyone will chose HoD over ET/FC… T7 having the most balanced matches these weeks will most likely attract people there, while HoD grows and SF stay on Glicko Ghetto get longer…

HoD isn’t suposed to be open for free transfer… I’d rather open it for SF.

Here’s the most glorious part of this free transfers to medium servers crap…

Raege.1069:

Do you people even check what the situation is in EU before making these decision? The currently strongest EU server is Medium population, guess what free tranfers there could potentially do to the hint of balance we have in T1 atm?

When will ANet wrap their heads around the fact that overall server population does not necessarily correlate to WvW population? Considering server transfers pretty much only relate to WvW now that guesting is in effect, transfer prices (and free transfer offers) should always have been based on WvW ranking, not overall server population.

Jeknar.6184:

I’m sure people won’t be willing to leave their guilds to join the other server since you cannot transfer all your upgrades and influence…

Yes that is the most likely case, especially given the history of server zealotry on FC; the majority of major guilds and players will probably stay on their respective servers and hope for the changes in WvW to bring a WvW population boom. (Something that may or may not happen.)

However, its still a topic worthy of some serious discussion. This could be a chance to drastically change the tier 8 dynamics, given that nobody makes the poor decision to start bloating HoD.

Manoa.5897:

insanemaniac.2456:

makes face at SF
nyah!

ColinJohanson.2394:

For the next week, all the medium population servers will be free to transfer to. Might be worth giving one of them a look!

So much rage at ArenaNet right now. Instead of actually fixing the Glicko Ghetto, they instead give free transfers to our T8 enemies and the T7 server that we’ve been trying desperately to swap places with. So this is our “reward” for dominating for 2 months straight? Such bullkitten.

EDIT: Free transfers to HoD might no be soo bad it would push NSP and GoM down in ratings fast, allowing us to join T7 still. At even score, HoD gets +22 and NSP, GoM gets -10. Imagine if they get mass transfers and start being T7’s SF, it’ll push NSP or GoM in T8 in 2-3 weeks.

Moving one community to another is going to be a really, really tough sell. For both ET and FC. Especially given, at this point, those who are around are the ones who are very dedicated to their servers.

Jeknar.6184:

Set up a bunch of trebs and started wrecking havoc around with the fiery rocks (We even took AH outer wall). Had some nice fights today… Defending Stargrove against SF. Defending Greenwater against Fergs and then Greenwater again against SF. Also had a nice duel with everyone’s favorite Forum Troll… And my armor is broken…

Now, back on the game coverage…

OH NOES! FC HAVE MORE THAN DOUBLE OF OUR PPT!!!

You would have had me at the end there if they didn’t jump in but what a good fight. I think we downed each other at the exact same time. Good fight man!

Manoa.5897:

insanemaniac.2456:

makes face at SF
nyah!

ColinJohanson.2394:

For the next week, all the medium population servers will be free to transfer to. Might be worth giving one of them a look!

So much rage at ArenaNet right now. Instead of actually fixing the Glicko Ghetto, they instead give free transfers to our T8 enemies and the T7 server that we’ve been trying desperately to swap places with. So this is our “reward” for dominating for 2 months straight? Such bullkitten.

Well I’m just getting worried that they are expecting an increase in lag from the new culling change. I hope this isn’t the case….but if they were worried about the lower pop servers they would have done something many moons ago.

Manoa.5897:

insanemaniac.2456:

makes face at SF
nyah!

ColinJohanson.2394:

For the next week, all the medium population servers will be free to transfer to. Might be worth giving one of them a look!

So much rage at ArenaNet right now. Instead of actually fixing the Glicko Ghetto, they instead give free transfers to our T8 enemies and the T7 server that we’ve been trying desperately to swap places with. So this is our “reward” for dominating for 2 months straight? Such bullkitten.

Let me preface my comments by saying that I fully expected to be stuck in T8 for at least another month before this news, so I do not want people to think that I am whining about ET/FC getting potential help/population boostings.

My complaint is that everyone and their brother claims/believes/admits that free transfers broke glicko/WvW Tiers in the past, and now what does ANET do to “remedy” this? MOAR FREE TRANSFERS….Let’s hope they dont have trouble with in-game economy in the future: “Let’s give them free gold, or maybe put them on ANET assistance, they can cash a gold voucher every month around the 1st…”

I fully support the lacking servers getting help, like I said above I do not mind that as much. But what do people think is going to happen when these “free transfers” do not like what they get? What happens when these people bail from WvW in the event the score differential only slightly changes and these people do not wanna lose by 100k etc?

I’ll tell you what: disgruntled people that will be kitten that they moved to the lowest tier, unhappy that they cant move back to their “home”, and an even more diminished attendance for little brother and middle brother…And after all that what we will be left with is the same stale matchup for another 3+ months by that time because this influx was just enough to hold us in T8.

Again, I hope you guys get the help you need, nothing personal toward ET/FC, but I would hope that the same people that have been VOCAL on these forums about free transfers “ruining their server” would not change their tune just because you THINK it will benefit you.

This is ANET’s solution folks: drop a patch, and drop free transfers back into play to “fix” their broken system.

/rant over

Jeknar.6184:

Manoa.5897:

So much rage at ArenaNet right now. Instead of actually fixing the Glicko Ghetto, they instead give free transfers to our T8 enemies and the T7 server that we’ve been trying desperately to swap places with. So this is our “reward” for dominating for 2 months straight? Such bullkitten.

Bullkitten is the fact that everyone will chose HoD over ET/FC… T7 having the most balanced matches these weeks will most likely attract people there, while HoD grows and SF stay on Glicko Ghetto get longer…

HoD isn’t suposed to be open for free transfer… I’d rather open it for SF.

Well said Jek, and that is an excellent point.

Meh. Suppose I’d best weigh in. I don’t know what other Fergs think – but I’d rather have folk what honestly want to join us on the battlefield, instead of those who’ve been slapped with the stick whilst chasing carrots.
With that said, I’ll back up anyone what actually chooses to join up. Just don’t expect
things to be all Friendship Is Magic here. Yes, we’re underdogs. But you know what,
it makes us mean.

King Amadaeus.8619:

Manoa.5897:

insanemaniac.2456:

makes face at SF
nyah!

ColinJohanson.2394:

For the next week, all the medium population servers will be free to transfer to. Might be worth giving one of them a look!

So much rage at ArenaNet right now. Instead of actually fixing the Glicko Ghetto, they instead give free transfers to our T8 enemies and the T7 server that we’ve been trying desperately to swap places with. So this is our “reward” for dominating for 2 months straight? Such bullkitten.

Let me preface my comments by saying that I fully expected to be stuck in T8 for at least another month before this news, so I do not want people to think that I am whining about ET/FC getting potential help/population boostings.

My complaint is that everyone and their brother claims/believes/admits that free transfers broke glicko/WvW Tiers in the past, and now what does ANET do to “remedy” this? MOAR FREE TRANSFERS….Let’s hope they dont have trouble with in-game economy in the future: “Let’s give them free gold, or maybe put them on ANET assistance, they can cash a gold voucher every month around the 1st…”

I fully support the lacking servers getting help, like I said above I do not mind that as much. But what do people think is going to happen when these “free transfers” do not like what they get? What happens when these people bail from WvW in the event the score differential only slightly changes and these people do not wanna lose by 100k etc?

I’ll tell you what: disgruntled people that will be kitten that they moved to the lowest tier, unhappy that they cant move back to their “home”, and an even more diminished attendance for little brother and middle brother…And after all that what we will be left with is the same stale matchup for another 3+ months by that time because this influx was just enough to hold us in T8.

Again, I hope you guys get the help you need, nothing personal toward ET/FC, but I would hope that the same people that have been VOCAL on these forums about free transfers “ruining their server” would not change their tune just because you THINK it will benefit you.

This is ANET’s solution folks: drop a patch, and drop free transfers back into play to “fix” their broken system.

/rant over

Well I certainly hope for some transfers INTO FC/ET… it’s the transfers to green team (while ET/FC where blue/red) that caused the mess in T8 rankings. Our scores got so low that it created the trap for anyone falling into T8 from here on… Now for SF’s sake I hope that ET/FC don’t get too much transfers because that would mean that we’re competing with greater numbers and probably close the score gap and dropping your ratings and just keeping you tied down in T8 longer and longer and longer… Now that would not be such a bad thing if we get enough transfers to make it a well contested match, but I doubt that would be the case.
We’ll have to wait and see, but I certainly hope that players from FC/ET don’t use this to move out!!!!

King Amadaeus.8619:

Again, I hope you guys get the help you need, nothing personal toward ET/FC, but I would hope that the same people that have been VOCAL on these forums about free transfers “ruining their server” would not change their tune just because you THINK it will benefit you.

Free Transfers will not fix the number problem. No matter what happens.

I mean make no mistake, fighting the same lop sides match up week in and week out, is the stale toast on the plate of WvW.

But if they in the end give us balanced matches where have enjoyable fights, that is better then the nothing they have been doing.

Make no mistake the system would still remain broke at T8, the only way to really fix that is by resetting the scores and starting again, this is more a band aid on a gaping wound, but it is still at least, a band aid.

Free transfers are back… well, there goes leaving T8 in a week or two. We are likely stuck in this matchup for months to come now.

D W.5179:

Free transfers are back… well, there goes leaving T8 in a week or two. We are likely stuck in this matchup for months to come now.

Best case scenario, the med population servers get just the right amount of transfers to make T8 a bit more competitive and becomes fun for all. Worst case scenario, the med population servers get a surge of WvWer transfers and Sorrow’s Furnace becomes the new bottom kitten.

Whatever the case, our chances of breaking out T8 into T7 are completely hosed. Because even if ET and FC don’t get transfers, HoD likely will.

Two months…two frickin’ months of dominating…all for nothing. Get cozy SF boys and girls, T8 just became our new permanent home.

At this point, just hoping for the best case scenario and this free server crap doesn’t cause us to become the new 24.

Manoa.5897:

D W.5179:

Free transfers are back… well, there goes leaving T8 in a week or two. We are likely stuck in this matchup for months to come now.

Best case scenario, the med population servers get just the right amount of transfers to make T8 a bit more competitive and becomes fun for all. Worst case scenario, the med population servers get a surge of WvWer transfers and Sorrow’s Furnace becomes the new bottom kitten.

Whatever the case, our chances of breaking out T8 into T7 are completely hosed. Because even if ET and FC don’t get transfers, HoD likely will.

Two months…two frickin’ months of dominating…all for nothing. Get cozy SF boys and girls, T8 just became our new permanent home.

Like I said earlier my worst fear is that it gets competitive enough, just long enough, to stick us here for good…And then we all know what will happen, people will leave, go to PVE, etc…And 6 months from now we will be still stuck here. SF will have people come out of the woodwork if we were to start to struggle and it would be fun for a while, and good for everyone in the short-term. But I would doubt that ET/FC would get enough transfers to ever pull head enough to win-out a week.

Truth be told, as I said many times, I have no problem with the same server matchups. Hell its the same maps over and over anyway, my problem is the same lopsided matches…So if this does magically fix that, then I would stand corrected.

ET/FC should stick it to them and all pile into one server, thus killing the other…See how the grand plan works out then, it amazes me that ANET was willing to say that free transfers were a bad idea, and then 3 months later comes right back with them.

We have been fighting for around 2 months now to get out of T8, and once the end is in sight (Maybe I was optimistic, but I figured 1 or 2 more weeks) then ANet pulls the rug out of under us. I understand that the medium population servers need transfers, and this should help that, but it doesn’t make the last 2+ months of a wasted effort any easier to swallow.
As said above me, hopefully FC and ET get enough of a population boom to compete and not just enough to keep us here in a lopsided match indefinitely.

D W.5179:

We have been fighting for around 2 months now to get out of T8, and once the end is in sight (Maybe I was optimistic, but I figured 1 or 2 more weeks) then ANet pulls the rug out of under us. I understand that the medium population servers need transfers, and this should help that, but it doesn’t make the last 2+ months of a wasted effort any easier to swallow.
As said above me, hopefully FC and ET get enough of a population boom to compete and not just enough to keep us here in a lopsided match indefinitely.

Totally agree bro, pretty much makes everything we have worked toward kinda useless if it goes the way we’re hoping it doesn’t….

I sure hope they are still open to the idea of a hard reset…That is the only thing that may fix things if people DO go crazy with these transfers…

At this point it might not be anything to worry with, things are usually not as bad as they seem, but I think the thing we are raging about is the POTENTIAL that this has to either improve/further ruin T8.

Hey there FC, just dropping by to say I’m looking forward to fighting with you guys in wvw as I have just transferred with my new account. My other account is currently on maguuma and decided to check out one of the tier 8 servers with my spare account. Can’t wait to talk strategy with those of you who play wvw and get some good fights in. I won’t be on so much until my warrior hits 80 but I should be there soon!

ET and FC lumping together into one big server may be a good idea... problem is... how do we settle who goes where. i’m NOT leaving my guild. no if’s, and’s or but’s. if my guild transfers, i will. if it stays, i will. period. i’m sure others are of a similar feeling

I played with Jeknar last night and I have to say that SF had great coverage in ET BL last night. There were so many who fought us to delay the cap of a camp or a tower even if it was 1 SF versus 5 ET. I admire your organization and dedication. I saw a lot of LH last night.

I hope the free transfers bolsters the population of ET. I have thought it might be a good idea to merge FC & ET servers but like many others, our guild would never leave ET. We have invested far too much into our guild infrastructure.

I hope for more interesting battles in the future. I always have fun with my friends (even if I get smashed multiple times).

katz.8376:

ET and FC lumping together into one big server may be a good idea… problem is… how do we settle who goes where. i’m NOT leaving my guild. no if’s, and’s or but’s. if my guild transfers, i will. if it stays, i will. period. i’m sure others are of a similar feeling

Well, again staying as impartial as possible, it seems as though FC have more of a zealot-like (to steal Jeks word) population in terms of their server pride.

Either way I am sure no one would expect people to leave their guild. I was basically talking about guild transfers I guess when I think about it. As in all the TACs, TFoRs, PKs, Mends (if they still even exist) were to transfer to FC, then you might have something interesting.

It would also be interesting to see ANETs next “fix”, because whichever server is left would be extinct (WvW-wise). That is what happens in situations like this, a decision is made betting on the law of averages, and not counting on a group getting together and changing those outcomes. So if 2 servers did merge on this deal, I doubt we would ever see free transfers again lol…In college I had a professor that curved the final based on the highest grade (IE: on a 100 scale, a 90 would curve to 100 and give everyone else +10 points to the grade they earned). That was fine and dandy until everyone in our class answered “c” to every question, everyone got a 50-something and everyone rounded up to 100 and never again did that person offer said curve.

They are counting on people that are sick of queues etc and think that life would be better in T7 & T8, they are likely not counting on FC/ET switches. Something like that would definitely shake up the system and would be a game changer at least for the T8 situation.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Glorious-Fergusons-Crossing/first#post1702874

ET has the larger WvW population currently hence why we are holding second even if there are entire organizations on SF that make it a point to attack ET every chance they get, so it would make the most sense to move to ET in mass and build a solid WvW Server that could hold it’s own. maybe all the people on FC that had taken a break could take this moment to come to ET for a few days, check it out, and see if you want to stay, you have the whole week to decide and you could just transfer back to FC if you did not like it.

Atho, if we really wanted to be mean, Et and Fc could just jump to HoD, and shoot them up, and thus leave T8 with 2 dead servers.

Would just like to say FC did a great job defending Mendons the other day… took us 2 trys of tearing down the gate to push through and they fought hard and honestly almost broke our zerg which was larger than theirs. +respect

Darek.1836:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Glorious-Fergusons-Crossing/first#post1702874

yah. No offence. but someone who bailed on FC for BP, is not really the pitch man I would listen to about the endurance of FC players

Ungood.3054:

ET has the larger WvW population currently hence why we are holding second even if there are entire organizations on SF that make it a point to attack ET every chance they get, so it would make the most sense to move to ET in mass and build a solid WvW Server that could hold it’s own. maybe all the people on FC that had taken a break could take this moment to come to ET for a few days, check it out, and see if you want to stay, you have the whole week to decide and you could just transfer back to FC if you did not like it.

Atho, if we really wanted to be mean, Et and Fc could just jump to HoD, and shoot them up, and thus leave T8 with 2 dead servers.

Still limited to one transfer per week, so this isn’t possible without paying a fee to go back if you don’t like it.

Ungood.3054:

Atho, if we really wanted to be mean, Et and Fc could just jump to HoD, and shoot them up, and thus leave T8 with 2 dead servers.

I think merging 2-servers into 1 would be hard enough logistically, but if you guys thought you could realistically swing merging 3 into 1, I say go for it….It would get the attention of the people that have the stroke to fix this system for sure.

Whatever happen, I just hope people on ET/FC don’t flee to HoD…

Ungood.3054:

ET has the larger WvW population currently hence why we are holding second even if there are entire organizations on SF that make it a point to attack ET every chance they get, so it would make the most sense to move to ET in mass and build a solid WvW Server that could hold it’s own. maybe all the people on FC that had taken a break could take this moment to come to ET for a few days, check it out, and see if you want to stay, you have the whole week to decide and you could just transfer back to FC if you did not like it.

Atho, if we really wanted to be mean, Et and Fc could just jump to HoD, and shoot them up, and thus leave T8 with 2 dead servers.

Think it is only one free trasfer that you get

Jeknar.6184:

Whatever happen, I just hope people on ET/FC don’t flee to HoD…

Maybe… SF ppl will take this chance to flee to HoD? Good news yes?

FilthyRat.4652:

Think it is only one free trasfer that you get

Yeah, the free transfer will last only to April’s Fool (04/01), which mean you will have to pay to go back if you transfer…

It’s sure funny. I check the server population very frequently.
Over the past weeks we dropped from 6 High population servers to just 3.
HoD , ET and FC been the last High ones. Now suddenly they are Medium.
Might be an easier way to implement the free transfers with changing the population tag.

Darek , finally you can come home for free

Sure would been better to do this just related to wvw population and not server.
But at least they throw a bone.

Cymric.7368:

Jeknar.6184:

Whatever happen, I just hope people on ET/FC don’t flee to HoD…

Maybe… SF ppl will take this chance to fee to HoD? Good news yes?

Maybe but the SF morale is “ok”, I wouldn’t say great, but considering we win pretty easily and generally hold everything we can it goes a long way to keeping the troops “satisfied”….Plus you should read more of these matchup threads, you know us big bad MZ bullies on SF just beat up on ET when we get frustrated!