Guild Wars 2

The campaign starts NOW!

The Alpine maps are too small, simple and boring. Please can we have the Desert maps back?

Little early for this… personally I think both maps have up and downsides. For one I think skill lag could be more pronounced on Alpine than Desert, however, it has been too Iong since I played Alpine to be sure.

I also think that while Desert is bigger, and I agree on Alpine being small, I don’t think the extra space on Desert can be used efectively. It is not as simple as one map being objectively better than the other. I liked themed keeps on Desert, but ultimately that is more of a flavour thing than a pure gameplay reason, and definitely subjective.

erm simple is exactly what we need in wvw. wvw doesnt need a complex map as wvw is a sandbox kinda game mode where the player is responsible for defense and not ai.

no desert bl is not good for wvw!

Svarty.8019:

The campaign starts NOW!

The Alpine maps are too small, simple and boring. Please can we have the Desert maps back?

You do know they’re going to come after you with Torches, Pitch Forks, and Tar, right?

Seriously, though… it would be nice imo to see a rotation of sorts. DBL one week or month, ABL the next.

Anet,

Others have expressed this kind of idea as well. Maybe after the WvW community has had a little time to play the upgraded ABL map, we can try a rotation?

i think desert should be an optional wvw map. its good for beginners that are moving over from pve to wvw. alpine was always more hardcore cause u need ts and coordination to attack and defend.

A lot of nostalgia bubbles will burst when alpine comes back. Yes easier to navigate but it won’t be the same as before.

When they first gave access to Desert maps in HoT beta, I hated those. Big, confusing, full of high things to fall into death. I was pretty disappointed when not that much was changed to the actual release.

Still in the months to follow I learned to move around the maps. It was easy to explore those as there was never any enemies around. They have been patched several times now and I feel the maps are fine. Only thing that really bugs me atm is how big the keeps are and how difficult it is to find an enemy in the keep.

FogLeg.9354:

When they first gave access to Desert maps in HoT beta, I hated those. Big, confusing, full of high things to fall into death. I was pretty disappointed when not that much was changed to the actual release.

Still in the months to follow I learned to move around the maps. It was easy to explore those as there was never any enemies around. They have been patched several times now and I feel the maps are fine. Only thing that really bugs me atm is how big the keeps are and how difficult it is to find an enemy in the keep.

thats because majority still dont play the desert maps and for all of you telling them to keep them youve never been in a 4 hr fight for a keep in the alpine bl most of you have only seen the dersert bl and those that were there on the alphine and you say you prefer the desert bl well you were a bottom tier server werent you

Desert Borderland is confusing. Getting lost and loosing ones direction and intentions in the middle of a campaign while leading an army as a commander is a no brainer. However if gliding is implemented in it, DBL would be made more straight forward with strategic and tactical game play more forth coming. Now as is, it has too many RNG chance and funnelling straight jacket.

implementing no fly zones on DBL and gliding would be an interesting change.
Or a parachute, so you cant move horizontally any more than you can while falling currently on wvw maps.

I think it wasn’t done because it would stop “clifftop golf”.
Which is a double edged… club?

Stand down, you sonavagun! They ain’t even brought back Alpine yet! Maybe it will be so kitten now with HoT the map may not even matter. Remember, we bled over half a year during this kitten; least you could do is take one for the team and keep it shut for a month.

LordCody.6245:

FogLeg.9354:

When they first gave access to Desert maps in HoT beta, I hated those. Big, confusing, full of high things to fall into death. I was pretty disappointed when not that much was changed to the actual release.

Still in the months to follow I learned to move around the maps. It was easy to explore those as there was never any enemies around. They have been patched several times now and I feel the maps are fine. Only thing that really bugs me atm is how big the keeps are and how difficult it is to find an enemy in the keep.

thats because majority still dont play the desert maps and for all of you telling them to keep them youve never been in a 4 hr fight for a keep in the alpine bl most of you have only seen the dersert bl and those that were there on the alphine and you say you prefer the desert bl well you were a bottom tier server werent you

Apparently you haven’t been playing recently. On NSP we’ve been fighting constantly to keep fire and air, we loose them every night when the hod blob comes fighting for over an hour. We’ll successfully stave them off 3 or 4 times before our number dwindle too low.
Regardless of us loosing keeps, many of us still prefer the DBL because of the interesting dynamics it brings during fights with all the cliffs
Sure it takes a bit of time to learn the paths from one place to another, and it also takes a bit longer to get where you’re going, but that makes certain places much easier to defend with less numbers.
Now, if they could do something about the random people pulling tactics right before a huge zerg hits us that would be great.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

implementing no fly zones on DBL and gliding would be an interesting change.
Or a parachute, so you cant move horizontally any more than you can while falling currently on wvw maps.

I think it wasn’t done because it would stop “clifftop golf”.
Which is a double edged… club?

Imagine implementing gliding in EOTM with up draughts. The only anomaly would be alpine borderland in the sense that it has less gliding launch pads but this can be easily fix with dust devils on the grounds and up draughts up in mid air.

No Ty. Put them in EoTm plz. I never go there so that would be awesome.

Krypto.2069:

Seriously, though… it would be nice imo to see a rotation of sorts. DBL one week or month, ABL the next.

Anet have send they intend to rotate the borders. Good plan IMO, I think both have unique playstyles and benefits. The only problem is they have suggested swapping maybe every 3 months, which I fear may be too long for either ABl or DBl devotees!

Jong.5937:

Krypto.2069:

Seriously, though… it would be nice imo to see a rotation of sorts. DBL one week or month, ABL the next.

Anet have send they intend to rotate the borders. Good plan IMO, I think both have unique playstyles and benefits. The only problem is they have suggested swapping maybe every 3 months, which I fear may be too long for either ABl or DBl devotees!

The problem though is those who will not play the DBL’s will either not play WvW for 3 months or the Queues for EBG will go through the roof for 3 months straight ruining WvW again for many. Having maps people wont play on in the game means the game mode is broke for 3 months.

I take it you enjoy playing in desert borderlands by yourself?

The Alpine borderland is about the same size as the Desert borderland.

The Alpine towers are closer to center and there are large areas wasted in the south and in the northern corners of the map. Also the citadel takes up lot of space in the Alpine map.

I agree, bring back the dbl…… as a pve map. That garbage has no place in wvw.

LordCody.6245:

FogLeg.9354:

When they first gave access to Desert maps in HoT beta, I hated those. Big, confusing, full of high things to fall into death. I was pretty disappointed when not that much was changed to the actual release.

Still in the months to follow I learned to move around the maps. It was easy to explore those as there was never any enemies around. They have been patched several times now and I feel the maps are fine. Only thing that really bugs me atm is how big the keeps are and how difficult it is to find an enemy in the keep.

thats because majority still dont play the desert maps and for all of you telling them to keep them youve never been in a 4 hr fight for a keep in the alpine bl most of you have only seen the dersert bl and those that were there on the alphine and you say you prefer the desert bl well you were a bottom tier server werent you

I have. Those epic fights usually consisted of standing around watching trebs fire at each other and large groups running in circles doing a whole lot of nothing.

Well, I guess some people consider Fort Aspenwood a bottom tier server given the amount of hate it has received over the years. It is not a particularly kind thing to say.

I prefer the desert bl but the alpine is fine. The gameplay on it was good enough for years. Sort of like my opinion of Batman vs Superman. Definitely ok.

I am very excited for the nostalgia bubbles to burst when people realize how boring Alpine is to play on again.

Bay pool party! Water fights are much more fun than lava fights.

lil devils x.6071:

The problem though is those who will not play the DBL’s will either not play WvW for 3 months or the Queues for EBG will go through the roof for 3 months straight ruining WvW again for many. Having maps people wont play on in the game means the game mode is broke for 3 months.

My point exactly. I come at it from a different place – I like both (now DBl has been improved), but I understand those that hate DBl will log off or get very bored In queue if borders are only rotated every 3 months. If they were to alternate weekly or pick them randomly there is a chance people would put up with the map they don’t like and some (I get not all!) might decide they are not as bad as they remember, especially if Anet spend a few weeks further tweaking the DBls, e.g. making the northern towers strategically important and taking away a few of the remaining, most detested PvE elements, like pop-up rocks!

It will be interesting to see what they end up doing with the borderlands… it is obvious Desert will be back, otherwise there would have been no point to fixing it at all, or keep taking feedback and talking about other changes to it after they announced Alpine’s return.

If they do the once per quarter thing, which might very well happen, because it doesn’t look like they have the tech to automate the switching of maps at the moment, there will be interesting three months or so following next quarterly patch.

I don’t subscribe to this mentality that Alpine Borderlands are so clearly, and automatically, superior to the Desert borderlands, because it won’t be the same map we had before. That map had completely different upgrade systems for keeps and towers.

I’ll miss stealthy gank canyon which I think was probably one of the more interesting things introduced into WvW in its lifetime because it managed to get the ‘players acting as hazard’ thing just right.

I really won’t miss anything else other than the nice looking terrain and ekko the dolphin.

We need a new poll!

Where’s the dislike button?

The longer the DBL stays away, the better!

When we get lake and orb hackers back?

Gaile Gray.6029:

I think it’d be good to read the update notes for today’s build.

A lot has been adjusted and amended, as you can see:

• The Alpine borderlands map has been rotated back into play.
• Updated map content to be consistent with existing WvW maps.
  • Sentries now detect and mark enemy players on the map.
  • Original resource nodes have been removed. Resource synthesizer nodes now exist inside objectives.
  • Objectives now have capture-point decals.
  • Objective lords now have health scaling.
  • Objectives now upgrade based on dolyak caravan deliveries.
  • Objectives now support the updated guild-claiming and guild-objective upgrades systems.
  • Disabled Commander Siegerazer’s breakout events.
  • Cultural armor vendors have been added at the team citadel areas.
  • Dolyak caravans now jog rather than walk.
  • Dolyak caravans now gain the Protected Caravan effect when allied players are nearby.
  • Players can no longer rally by killing basic creatures.
  • Halved the number of ambient creatures (deer, drakes, wolves, etc.).

Frankly just the idea of jogging dolyaks makes it all worthwhile to me.

But seriously, give it a try before making a judgment, ok? The WvW Team is actively reading your feedback, but that feedback is always best when based on solid experience with the current map.

Thanks.

With all due respect all of those are menial surface changes. We’ve played the same map for 3 years, nothing fundamental (every day game-play besides pvdoor) has changed. Those of us who were bored of it, are still going to be bored of it.

Not to say I don’t love some of the changes (ambient mobs, rally, removing Siegerazer- namely), but they won’t change the way the map is played one bit.

Had I seen a change to the center of the map which has received a ton of negative feedback, I might be more inclined to be a little excited by it.

displacedTitan.6897:

I am very excited for the nostalgia bubbles to burst when people realize how boring Alpine is to play on again.

So much this. Remember all th whines for new maps? Apparently others don’t remember them at all….

That said a rotation each reset or every other reset would be ok….

We lobbied hard for the alpine BL to come back. Don’t take it away from us so fast.

Would have been much better to implement a new system with 4 different maps, instead of having 3 copies of the old map back.

Had I seen a change to the center of the map which has received a ton of negative feedback, I might be more inclined to be a little excited by it.

Ah, the center of the borderlands… ArenaNet seems to have real problems nailing down what to put there :P. Desert of Alpine alike.

As for the map itself, when it comes to flavor it looses hands down to most other maps. The jury is still out on some of the game play when it comes to me, since I haven’t played it in so long.

Well this is a historic moment either way, the (WvW) playerbase asked for content to be removed from the game and got their wish. That content also happened to be one of the major advertised features associated with HoT. Definitely something you don’t get to see every day.

Would have been much better to implement a new system with 4 different maps, instead of having 3 copies of the old map back.

I doubt we will see them develop new WvW maps again, I mean the community basically told them they don’t know how to do that. If I was in charge I wouldn’t take such a big risk again.

I mean, maps are not cheap to make that much we know. For example, before launch something that was suggested was to have each borderland map be the same map but in different seasonal state (summer, winter, etc.) and they said even that was too much work.

dank.3680:

With all due respect all of those are menial surface changes. We’ve played the same map for 3 years, nothing fundamental (every day game-play besides pvdoor) has changed. Those of us who were bored of it, are still going to be bored of it.

Not to say I don’t love some of the changes (ambient mobs, rally, removing Siegerazer- namely), but they won’t change the way the map is played one bit.

This is what I meant with my trolly comment.

I would like to add that this ongoing nostalgy with WvW has caused me to loose all faith that WvW could ever advance or fulfill its full potential as game mode. I’m glad for current players that these changes seem popular, but I doubt that this will do wonders for game mode.

Xillllix.3485:

Would have been much better to implement a new system with 4 different maps, instead of having 3 copies of the old map back.

yes…why does it have to be all the same? 4 different maps would be great…even better would be if they were all connected, with EB in the middle. (like DAoC frontiers)

Jong.5937:

Krypto.2069:

Seriously, though… it would be nice imo to see a rotation of sorts. DBL one week or month, ABL the next.

Anet have send they intend to rotate the borders. Good plan IMO, I think both have unique playstyles and benefits. The only problem is they have suggested swapping maybe every 3 months, which I fear may be too long for either ABl or DBl devotees!

I don’t believe that is a good plan at long term, it might settle thing for some time, but while WvW design issues aren’t addressed, Anet will be in a continuous fight to add minor changes that i call placebos and everything will be awfull again after some time.
They need to change the game mode to adapt to new features at long term and not masquerade the issues with temporary fixes.

^will i be infracted again by thinking Anet game design is a empty bottle with a pretty shiny glass ?
The map rotation is a big mistake, server rotation is one big issue.
Guilds need to be strong features, not chat rooms with grind & gimmicks.

Because right now they don’t have 3 different borderland maps, they have 2 borderland and 2 ebg type maps. What they should have done from the beginning is made all maps like the ebg type, then at this point we could have had 4 different maps to play in both matchups and eotm.

P.S They probably should at least rotate the bl maps manually with the quarterly linking changes until they can figure out the automation system for it.

Krypto.2069:

Svarty.8019:

The campaign starts NOW!

The Alpine maps are too small, simple and boring. Please can we have the Desert maps back?

You do know they’re going to come after you with Torches, Pitch Forks, and Tar, right?

Seriously, though… it would be nice imo to see a rotation of sorts. DBL one week or month, ABL the next.

Anet,

Others have expressed this kind of idea as well. Maybe after the WvW community has had a little time to play the upgraded ABL map, we can try a rotation?

im pretty sure they mentioned something liek this becoming a possibility, but in 3 month intervals.

I just want to point out that currently on Mag EBG is queued, the bl’s are dead save for a couple pvdooring ktrains.

This is the Alpine I remember, and why I didn’t want it back.

dank.3680:

I just want to point out that currently on Mag EBG is queued, the bl’s are dead save for a couple pvdooring ktrains.

This is the Alpine I remember, and why I didn’t want it back.

Players love pvd karma train, i think for many that equals a GG and skillfull play, reason most players might be want the pvd alpine bl….
Most players did not like the desert BL because they needed more effort.

GW2 is know to be a awfull pvp and wvw game, they take what they do….

GG Anet, another bad move, but skrits love it.

Liston.9708:

displacedTitan.6897:

I am very excited for the nostalgia bubbles to burst when people realize how boring Alpine is to play on again.

So much this. Remember all th whines for new maps? Apparently others don’t remember them at all….

So much NOT this. A lot of people wanted new maps that were NOT like eotm and had less pve than alpine did. Then they gave us more pve in a map that was a lot like eotm. And that was only the beginning of the problems people had with desert bls. No one asked that the new map be filled with gimmicks, but that is what we got. So people legitimately complained because it was pretty much the opposite of what had been requested over the past 2.5-3 years.

Kanebrake.6192:

Liston.9708:

displacedTitan.6897:

I am very excited for the nostalgia bubbles to burst when people realize how boring Alpine is to play on again.

So much this. Remember all th whines for new maps? Apparently others don’t remember them at all….

So much NOT this. A lot of people wanted new maps that were NOT like eotm and had less pve than alpine did. Then they gave us more pve in a map that was a lot like eotm. And that was only the beginning of the problems people had with desert bls. No one asked that the new map be filled with gimmicks, but that is what we got. So people legitimately complained because it was pretty much the opposite of what had been requested over the past 2.5-3 years.

but then they just added all the new gimmicks to the old maps and you think that’s better now? …

Lets cata double walls all day long map

Svarty.8019:

The campaign starts NOW!

The Alpine maps are too small, simple and boring. Please can we have the Desert maps back?

NO, just NO!

mcarswell.3768:

Xillllix.3485:

Would have been much better to implement a new system with 4 different maps, instead of having 3 copies of the old map back.

yes…why does it have to be all the same? 4 different maps would be great…even better would be if they were all connected, with EB in the middle. (like DAoC frontiers)

4 maps would have covered both sides and given people variety. They have now pleased one group to the determent of another.

Aeolus.3615:

Players love pvd karma train, i think for many that equals a GG and skillfull play, reason most players might be want the pvd alpine bl….
Most players did not like the desert BL because they needed more effort.

That’s the part I love is all the outcrys that no one pvd karma trains in WvW, its only EoTM. Yeah right.

Good hunting!

Alpine is a million times better than the desert BL. I was never bored of it, my guild was never bored of it.

Anyone crying about wanting desert BL back is not a true WvW player in my opinion, because that map was not practical at all. I’ve spent over 6000 hours in WvW between my 2 accounts and of that was about 20 hours in desert BL because of how awful it was, but we were forced with no choice when EBG was queued (always.)

If you don’t like Alpine, go back to EOTM or PvE.

TheGrimm.5624:

Aeolus.3615:

Players love pvd karma train, i think for many that equals a GG and skillfull play, reason most players might be want the pvd alpine bl….
Most players did not like the desert BL because they needed more effort.

That’s the part I love is all the outcrys that no one pvd karma trains in WvW, its only EoTM. Yeah right.

Good hunting!

Saddly that is what wvw is also about… hit where theres no one defendind, when blobs fight is all about who has most overwhlming force with aoe, range stacked cluster of player spamming.

gw2 @ skills, has much wvw team is doing somewhat a good job with the very very limited options they have, will be impossible to avoid this kind of player behavior since wvw is also depending of the skill balance team.

Josh XT.6053:

Alpine is a million times better than the desert BL. I was never bored of it, my guild was never bored of it.

Anyone crying about wanting desert BL back is not a true WvW player in my opinion, because that map was not practical at all. I’ve spent over 6000 hours in WvW between my 2 accounts and of that was about 20 hours in desert BL because of how awful it was, but we were forced with no choice when EBG was queued (always.)

If you don’t like Alpine, go back to EOTM or PvE.

ALpine BL is just awfull as the desert BL to some extent, offcourse desert BL has its own problems but the alpine BL….. is it a very low effort map….
The good thing on Alpine bl is that i love to cap keep with catas inside the wall….so much effort.

Josh XT.6053:

that was about 20 hours in desert BL

So you never took time to adapt and learn new tactics, got it. You could have just said that.