Guild Wars 2

OMG who brought back the old maps, that was a horrible idea!

These maps are old and stale and too wide open, and boring and, and, and, just YUCK!

PLEASE BRING BACK THE DBL’s!

I’ve given it a chance (it’s been here almost a WHOLE DAY!), and it’s the SAME OLD SONG AND DANCE as the last four years!

PLEASE give us the NEW maps back >.<

Give ANet the space to rework the DBL and add them again, but not all 3 DBL at once.
Since there are more players that are like to play the APL, you should do this:

red and blue become APL as homeborder, green the DBL.
server will change color everyweek so everyone becomes the dbl as homeborder from time to time and the “desert people” can play on them, 24/7. :p

by the way, i like snow.

And I’ll say it again, any true WvW player knew that DBL was garbage. It was AWFUL to fight on strategically because there were a million unavoidable chokes, awful PvE garbage where people could be mass stealthed and huge annoying walls popping up and crippling. Maps were way too big, just not good.

I give ANet points for effort because the new maps were beautiful to look at, but poorly designed for WvW game play.

On another note, since Alpine returned, all maps on Blackgate were queued from 7pm EST when I logged in and still queued at 1am when I logged off. THAT is the tier 1 that I remember. And as it should be. The EBG queue was LESS THAN every other maps queue lol. It was a great sight and I had a ton of great fights all night.

Again, thank you Anet for bring Alpine back, please never bring DBL back. If you do anything, just change some texture skins on Alpine and leave everything where it is and the size of the map in tact.

My guild came back to play WvW yesterday with the BL’s restored.
BL queues were larger than EBG’s for a while.

If DBL’s come back, they said they’ll leave again for as long as they’re back.

I prefer to keep my guild around than (not) participate on a dead set of maps.

I’m just seeing a bunch of PVD 15-man gank groups running around upset they now have to deal with competition to control a BL, both from larger guilds which they can’t just siege-bunker against, and against small havoc groups that dodge their faceroll fighting tactics entirely and manage PPT better than them.

I took enemy-BL hills yesterday with a group of six people against a garbage-tier 30-man blob during NA prime. That was extremely satisfying, and pretty much literally impossible to do in the DBL’s.

DeceiverX.8361:

I took enemy-BL hills yesterday with a group of six people against a garbage-tier 30-man blob during NA prime. That was extremely satisfying, and pretty much literally impossible to do in the DBL’s.

So you did a PVDOOR backcap.. How engaging… Such PVP.

hahahaaaaa This was totally predicted. People that don’t come into the forums much probably hadn’t seen the weeks of posts from people crying about the Desert BL’s. Now the Alpine comes back due to apparent popular demand, ( when all they really needed was some good fixing )… and now we’re seeing people screaming for the DBL’s back. I’m not sure which is more fun… the earlier posts or these… Oh man always always always going to be someone screaming. Just give me a borderland set that isn’t ridiculous like the DBL’s were at first and I’m happy. The latest updates to them made them very good to be in. These old Alpine bl’s are nostalgic but for me… truly ooooh so boring.. though most of my friends don’t agree with me.. it’s just my opinion. Whatever people manage to get is fine I guess as long as I can have fun with my friends.

All I see from ppl disliking the ABL so far boil down to “it’s not new so we don’t like it”. Which is a pretty lame and weak argument. Are there real and factual reasons as to why ppl dislike it?

It’s not more blobby or zerg oriented than what I’ve seen from the DBL. That argument is pure unadulterated BS. So, really, what is it?

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

All I see from ppl disliking the ABL so far boil down to “it’s not new so we don’t like it”. Which is a pretty lame and weak argument. Are there real and factual reasons as to why ppl dislike it?

It’s not more blobby or zerg oriented than what I’ve seen from the DBL. That argument is pure unadulterated BS. So, really, what is it?

Casual players that never played the game last year throwing a tantrum.

WvW ecosystem is very complex.

ANet made the right decision to put back the Alpine Borderlands imho.

ANet is trying to grow all levels of WvW because all Worlds have a Population Cap.

To do this…they have to ensure that all Tiers have the opportunity to have fun & attract players to play in all Tiers.

Here’s my opinion…

Alpine encourages WvW fighting regardless of Population level.
Desert can be good, but needs a critical mass of players to have fun.

Active WvW population levels seem to affect map usage = player fun & attracting players to play.

ANet’s decision to implement the Alpine map is the right decision in trying to encourage the core health of the WvW game mode.

ANet, however, should next consider changing the Core Base Map Mechanic that currently encourages server stacking…which is preventing the WvW game mode from really being on a better foundation…imho.

Based on my personal observations & players comments from other Tiers:

Top Tier Map Use

High – Alpine
High – EBG w/Alpine

High – Desert
High – EBG w/Desert

Middle Tier Map Use

Medium – Alpine
Medium – EBG w/Alpine

Low – Desert
High – EBG w/Desert

Bottom Tier Map Use

Medium – Alpine
Low – EBG w/Alpine

Dead – Desert
Medium – EBG w/Desert

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

All I see from ppl disliking the ABL so far boil down to “it’s not new so we don’t like it”. Which is a pretty lame and weak argument. Are there real and factual reasons as to why ppl dislike it?

It’s not more blobby or zerg oriented than what I’ve seen from the DBL. That argument is pure unadulterated BS. So, really, what is it?

I’ll tell you what I never noticed in the past before the DBL but notice now that I consider a flaw/bad design. The enemy spawn on each side is so close to the south towers and the side keeps. Doesn’t take long to wp into a map and start attacking a keep.

briggah.7910:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

All I see from ppl disliking the ABL so far boil down to “it’s not new so we don’t like it”. Which is a pretty lame and weak argument. Are there real and factual reasons as to why ppl dislike it?

It’s not more blobby or zerg oriented than what I’ve seen from the DBL. That argument is pure unadulterated BS. So, really, what is it?

I’ll tell you what I never noticed in the past before the DBL but notice now that I consider a flaw/bad design. The enemy spawn on each side is so close to the south towers and the side keeps. Doesn’t take long to wp into a map and start attacking a keep.

But that’s the benefit! Action instead of a track meet.

Orpheal.8263 – I didn’t read your post. You seem ranty and I don’t really care about what you wrote lol.

I read the first couple lines, a real WvW player is someone who almost exclusively plays WvW and doesn’t ONLY k-train around the maps. Your definition might differ from mine, which is fine – but if all you do is run around with zergs, I have a hard time taking your talent as a WvW player seriously.

Also, I say almost exclusively because we are sometimes forced by ANet to do PvE to get things that would better our WvW experience, such as guild hall upgrades, ascended armor, ascended weapons, etc.

Edit, read a little more – 20 hours in DBL, but between my 2 accounts, 6000 hours in WvW total. Most of which were in Alpine.

Dristig.9678:

briggah.7910:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

All I see from ppl disliking the ABL so far boil down to “it’s not new so we don’t like it”. Which is a pretty lame and weak argument. Are there real and factual reasons as to why ppl dislike it?

It’s not more blobby or zerg oriented than what I’ve seen from the DBL. That argument is pure unadulterated BS. So, really, what is it?

I’ll tell you what I never noticed in the past before the DBL but notice now that I consider a flaw/bad design. The enemy spawn on each side is so close to the south towers and the side keeps. Doesn’t take long to wp into a map and start attacking a keep.

But that’s the benefit! Action instead of a track meet.

you could prob flip the south towers before the action even gets there

Dristig.9678:

briggah.7910:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

All I see from ppl disliking the ABL so far boil down to “it’s not new so we don’t like it”. Which is a pretty lame and weak argument. Are there real and factual reasons as to why ppl dislike it?

It’s not more blobby or zerg oriented than what I’ve seen from the DBL. That argument is pure unadulterated BS. So, really, what is it?

I’ll tell you what I never noticed in the past before the DBL but notice now that I consider a flaw/bad design. The enemy spawn on each side is so close to the south towers and the side keeps. Doesn’t take long to wp into a map and start attacking a keep.

But that’s the benefit! Action instead of a track meet.

Depends. In late NA, that often means your notification that an enemy force is on your bl is a scout, well roamer, running to your keep and saying its flipping or the keep has flipped.

There would be a fight later if that group sticks around which is usually not the case. More often, you are just flipping it back with no resistance.

I am sure it is much better during primetime. It is what it is.

Happened on desert bl too. Just easier on alpine.

Josh XT.6053:

Orpheal.8263 – I didn’t read your post. You seem ranty and I don’t really care about what you wrote lol.

I read the first couple lines, a real WvW player is someone who almost exclusively plays WvW and doesn’t ONLY k-train around the maps. Your definition might differ from mine, which is fine – but if all you do is run around with zergs, I have a hard time taking your talent as a WvW player seriously.

Also, I say almost exclusively because we are sometimes forced by ANet to do PvE to get things that would better our WvW experience, such as guild hall upgrades, ascended armor, ascended weapons, etc.

Edit, read a little more – 20 hours in DBL, but between my 2 accounts, 6000 hours in WvW total. Most of which were in Alpine.

anyone who defines what a true wvw player is, isn’t a true wvw player if you ask me because there are so many different ways to play and no one way defines it..

6k hours and 20 hours in the DBL.. lol casual

briggah.7910:

Josh XT.6053:

Orpheal.8263 – I didn’t read your post. You seem ranty and I don’t really care about what you wrote lol.

I read the first couple lines, a real WvW player is someone who almost exclusively plays WvW and doesn’t ONLY k-train around the maps. Your definition might differ from mine, which is fine – but if all you do is run around with zergs, I have a hard time taking your talent as a WvW player seriously.

Also, I say almost exclusively because we are sometimes forced by ANet to do PvE to get things that would better our WvW experience, such as guild hall upgrades, ascended armor, ascended weapons, etc.

Edit, read a little more – 20 hours in DBL, but between my 2 accounts, 6000 hours in WvW total. Most of which were in Alpine.

anyone who defines what a true wvw player is, isn’t a true wvw player if you ask me because there are so many different ways to play and no one way defines it..

6k hours and 20 hours in the DBL.. lol casual

I stopped doing WvW when DBL came out for several months and played PvP where they wanted me to be since I play with 5 or less people generally. I don’t know a lot of people who are rank 2760 that didn’t ktrain with blobs for their ranks. Most of my WvW time was with my small group and some 15 man skill groups as well.

But yeah, I am just a casual these days. Now that Alpine is back, I’ll try to impress you by playing more.

DBL is a big fail, but map is not the only issue.
They have add a lot of bs on WvW !
Guild upgrade, auto upgrade, too much condi, cc, too much damage, WP change…

The last change just try to come back… To be good WvW should come back before the stab nerf… Without the condi and power burst… Without auto upgrade, without grind wall for guild upgrade, without pve stuff to interact with WvW (chill fog, airship, shrine, ..).

And when you add all those thing together you really hurt WvW…. I have completly stop playing 1 monther after HoT was out… And I’m only back since 3 weeks when I have heard that some change will come…

Finally those change are just coming back in past ! We are all happy by those change, but Anet at the first time should just not do that kitten… DBL, stab nerf, map and keep like maze…

DBL is a very bad map, with no tactical position, structure have no value at all except PPT…. The WP change just try to bring back a little value to the keep, but tower continu to be completly useless without any purpose…

No sorry but for me, as scout, and no KT man I hate DBL and I love ABL… DBL was just playable with the last change, but clearly not fun and enjoyable. Keep are too big, maze and really ugly.

Now stop complaining, we will have map rotation, then I will be able to play 3 month, and make a break for 3 month when DBL will be in place. I will just accept that and no point to QQ all the time.
ABL is a great map, stop asking for change on that map !

i spended 5h+ just holding hills :|, blobs runned away at minor defensive lines.. same as DBL…

briggah.7910:

Dristig.9678:

briggah.7910:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

All I see from ppl disliking the ABL so far boil down to “it’s not new so we don’t like it”. Which is a pretty lame and weak argument. Are there real and factual reasons as to why ppl dislike it?

It’s not more blobby or zerg oriented than what I’ve seen from the DBL. That argument is pure unadulterated BS. So, really, what is it?

I’ll tell you what I never noticed in the past before the DBL but notice now that I consider a flaw/bad design. The enemy spawn on each side is so close to the south towers and the side keeps. Doesn’t take long to wp into a map and start attacking a keep.

But that’s the benefit! Action instead of a track meet.

you could prob flip the south towers before the action even gets there

So? This isn’t real war. If enemies are immediately chased off of one of the first objectives (most likely by building a lot siege) then things can get boring real fast. Yay, we still have all of our stuff …but the map is dead. An accessible foothold encourages offensive forces to press which in turn gives defenders and scouts something to do. It’s a give and take, home borderland shouldn’t automatically mean easy defense, this is part of what makes Alpine a functional WvWvW map.

Josh XT.6053:

briggah.7910:

Josh XT.6053:

Orpheal.8263 – I didn’t read your post. You seem ranty and I don’t really care about what you wrote lol.

I read the first couple lines, a real WvW player is someone who almost exclusively plays WvW and doesn’t ONLY k-train around the maps. Your definition might differ from mine, which is fine – but if all you do is run around with zergs, I have a hard time taking your talent as a WvW player seriously.

Also, I say almost exclusively because we are sometimes forced by ANet to do PvE to get things that would better our WvW experience, such as guild hall upgrades, ascended armor, ascended weapons, etc.

Edit, read a little more – 20 hours in DBL, but between my 2 accounts, 6000 hours in WvW total. Most of which were in Alpine.

anyone who defines what a true wvw player is, isn’t a true wvw player if you ask me because there are so many different ways to play and no one way defines it..

6k hours and 20 hours in the DBL.. lol casual

I stopped doing WvW when DBL came out for several months and played PvP where they wanted me to be since I play with 5 or less people generally. I don’t know a lot of people who are rank 2760 that didn’t ktrain with blobs for their ranks. Most of my WvW time was with my small group and some 15 man skill groups as well.

But yeah, I am just a casual these days. Now that Alpine is back, I’ll try to impress you by playing more.

you’ll have to out rank me to impress me

I solo roamed or small group roamed (2 – 3 players) for about 2 years now and only zerged on reset night which is the night everyone zergs and I’m close to 5k ranks. The thing is when I roam, I’m taking camps to bring out other roamers. I react to pretty much every map call out to defend stuff. I have done more roaming than anything in this game mode. Maybe I’d be maxed diamond rank if all I did was zerg but you do not have to zerg to rank up. You just have to put in a lot of time.

Anyway I just get ticked off when I read people defining other players. As long as I’ve played this game mode I’ve never been labeled as a wvw’er. First I’m a pve’er because I never joined a wvw guild and stuck with my large mainly pve guild yet I’m always in wvw. Then I get labeled as a EoTM after that came into play because everyone knows only high rank players farmed them in EoTM

I could care less about which map we have and I didn’t stop playing because we had one and not the other but they both have different advantages and disadvantages.

gennyt.3428:

briggah.7910:

Dristig.9678:

briggah.7910:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

All I see from ppl disliking the ABL so far boil down to “it’s not new so we don’t like it”. Which is a pretty lame and weak argument. Are there real and factual reasons as to why ppl dislike it?

It’s not more blobby or zerg oriented than what I’ve seen from the DBL. That argument is pure unadulterated BS. So, really, what is it?

I’ll tell you what I never noticed in the past before the DBL but notice now that I consider a flaw/bad design. The enemy spawn on each side is so close to the south towers and the side keeps. Doesn’t take long to wp into a map and start attacking a keep.

But that’s the benefit! Action instead of a track meet.

you could prob flip the south towers before the action even gets there

So? This isn’t real war. If enemies are immediately chased off of one of the first objectives (most likely by building a lot siege) then things can get boring real fast. Yay, we still have all of our stuff …but the map is dead. An accessible foothold encourages offensive forces to press which in turn gives defenders and scouts something to do. It’s a give and take, home borderland shouldn’t automatically mean easy defense, this is part of what makes Alpine a functional WvWvW map.

It’s a give and take, home borderland shouldn’t automatically mean easy TAKE, this is part of what makes Alpine a functional as a k-train WvWvW map.

:)

I have defended hills for hours and hours…. If you defend and your zerg answer to the scout call then the ABL can be defended !
And don’t forget that now we have fortified gate who help a lot to hold ennemy back enough time to reinforcement to join.

dank.3680:

DeceiverX.8361:

I took enemy-BL hills yesterday with a group of six people against a garbage-tier 30-man blob during NA prime. That was extremely satisfying, and pretty much literally impossible to do in the DBL’s.

So you did a PVDOOR backcap.. How engaging… Such PVP.

Real WvW’rs do some serious PVD, dont forget they whinned that structures on desert Bl were to hard to take even with no defenders.
sorry could not resist….

Whats wrong with you people.

For the past 6 months ppl has been flooding the WvW forums saying that DBL killed WvW and asking for Alpine back.

Now you get Alpine back and you want DBL again?

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE.

Seems that at least half of the posts in this “bring it back” thread don’t want it back at all.

@Cyanon.1928, Anet at fixing stuff, they hardly fix what is creating the issue, WvW team cant fix the whole gamemode since it is also pdending from the process of other teams.

:)

Cyanon.1928:

Whats wrong with you people.

For the past 6 months ppl has been flooding the WvW forums saying that DBL killed WvW and asking for Alpine back.

Now you get Alpine back and you want DBL again?

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE.

for the past 3 years forums been flooded with dead game posts lol

siege disablers = killed wvw
stability change = killed wvw
no white swords test = killed wvw
golem week = killed wvw
DBL = killed wvw
Alpine is back = killed wvw

;)

I will add my thanks for bringing back the alpine maps and would like to encourage everyone who feels the same to please log on and fill the maps. That’s the only real way to show anet what is popular and what is not.

Aileras.9460:

I will add my thanks for bringing back the alpine maps and would like to encourage everyone who feels the same to please log on and fill the maps. That’s the only real way to show anet what is popular and what is not.

I just logged off after 4 hours of constant small scale fights. I haven’t had this much fun in months.

briggah.7910:

gennyt.3428:

briggah.7910:

Dristig.9678:

briggah.7910:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

All I see from ppl disliking the ABL so far boil down to “it’s not new so we don’t like it”. Which is a pretty lame and weak argument. Are there real and factual reasons as to why ppl dislike it?

It’s not more blobby or zerg oriented than what I’ve seen from the DBL. That argument is pure unadulterated BS. So, really, what is it?

I’ll tell you what I never noticed in the past before the DBL but notice now that I consider a flaw/bad design. The enemy spawn on each side is so close to the south towers and the side keeps. Doesn’t take long to wp into a map and start attacking a keep.

But that’s the benefit! Action instead of a track meet.

you could prob flip the south towers before the action even gets there

So? This isn’t real war. If enemies are immediately chased off of one of the first objectives (most likely by building a lot siege) then things can get boring real fast. Yay, we still have all of our stuff …but the map is dead. An accessible foothold encourages offensive forces to press which in turn gives defenders and scouts something to do. It’s a give and take, home borderland shouldn’t automatically mean easy defense, this is part of what makes Alpine a functional WvWvW map.

It’s a give and take, home borderland shouldn’t automatically mean easy TAKE, this is part of what makes Alpine a functional as a k-train WvWvW map.

:)

Read what you typed. If you’re going to try being a smartkitten at least do it right.

My argument still stands. You complained about Alpine south towers being hard to defend. Last time I checked, karma trains don’t treb from towers. Anything else?

gennyt.3428:

briggah.7910:

gennyt.3428:

briggah.7910:

Dristig.9678:

briggah.7910:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

All I see from ppl disliking the ABL so far boil down to “it’s not new so we don’t like it”. Which is a pretty lame and weak argument. Are there real and factual reasons as to why ppl dislike it?

It’s not more blobby or zerg oriented than what I’ve seen from the DBL. That argument is pure unadulterated BS. So, really, what is it?

I’ll tell you what I never noticed in the past before the DBL but notice now that I consider a flaw/bad design. The enemy spawn on each side is so close to the south towers and the side keeps. Doesn’t take long to wp into a map and start attacking a keep.

But that’s the benefit! Action instead of a track meet.

you could prob flip the south towers before the action even gets there

So? This isn’t real war. If enemies are immediately chased off of one of the first objectives (most likely by building a lot siege) then things can get boring real fast. Yay, we still have all of our stuff …but the map is dead. An accessible foothold encourages offensive forces to press which in turn gives defenders and scouts something to do. It’s a give and take, home borderland shouldn’t automatically mean easy defense, this is part of what makes Alpine a functional WvWvW map.

It’s a give and take, home borderland shouldn’t automatically mean easy TAKE, this is part of what makes Alpine a functional as a k-train WvWvW map.

:)

Read what you typed. If you’re going to try being a smartkitten at least do it right.

My argument still stands. You complained about Alpine south towers being hard to defend. Last time I checked, karma trains don’t treb from towers. Anything else?

I went back and reread everything I said and not once did I say they were hard to defend. I said I never noticed this before the DBL came into play BUT the south towers and side keeps are easy to get to just by spawning into the maps. You can get to them pretty fast before the defenders even show up.

then I commented on someone saying faster action.. well you can probably get into lords of south tower before the action even gets there lol

since the BLs came back there have been 2 threads recently about the event notifications popping up. Yes people complained about them in the past but they are annoying more people now because things are constantly flipping more..

Julenal.3907:

dank.3680:

With all due respect all of those are menial surface changes. We’ve played the same map for 3 years, nothing fundamental (every day game-play besides pvdoor) has changed. Those of us who were bored of it, are still going to be bored of it.

Not to say I don’t love some of the changes (ambient mobs, rally, removing Siegerazer- namely), but they won’t change the way the map is played one bit.

This is what I meant with my trolly comment.

I would like to add that this ongoing nostalgy with WvW has caused me to loose all faith that WvW could ever advance or fulfill its full potential as game mode. I’m glad for current players that these changes seem popular, but I doubt that this will do wonders for game mode.

It showed that ANET listens more to players now. And by doing that, they may be able to find a happy medium. E.g. bottom half of map could be more like alpine with towers that matter and have value and perhaps the top half can be like one of the overly enormous keeps from desert with towers within siege distance. I love having alpine back but will never enjoy the desert bl as it was or even after the few minor modifications that was made to it. The poi’s simply had no strategic value and thus not worth the travel time to get to.

dank.3680:

DeceiverX.8361:

I took enemy-BL hills yesterday with a group of six people against a garbage-tier 30-man blob during NA prime. That was extremely satisfying, and pretty much literally impossible to do in the DBL’s.

So you did a PVDOOR backcap.. How engaging… Such PVP.

You probably don’t know the feeling as I imagine you’re one of those Mag players who rides on the server’s reputation of skilled play while pretending to have skill with “roaming” with 15 people camping solo players from enemy spawns. Fighting outnumbered, partially wiping, and still taking an objective is quite engaging, as the task of staying alive and coordinating people itself is quite difficult and involves a lot of strategy to maintain people up or make sacrifices, diversions, etc. on the fly.

I like to fight when outnumbered. It’s much more stimulating than pressing 1 in the backline of a blob or facerolling the keyboard on most meta roaming classes/builds in 1v1 encounters.

DeceiverX.8361:

dank.3680:

DeceiverX.8361:

I took enemy-BL hills yesterday with a group of six people against a garbage-tier 30-man blob during NA prime. That was extremely satisfying, and pretty much literally impossible to do in the DBL’s.

So you did a PVDOOR backcap.. How engaging… Such PVP.

You probably don’t know the feeling as I imagine you’re one of those Mag players who rides on the server’s reputation of skilled play while pretending to have skill with “roaming” with 15 people camping solo players from enemy spawns. Fighting outnumbered, partially wiping, and still taking an objective is quite engaging, as the task of staying alive and coordinating people itself is quite difficult and involves a lot of strategy to maintain people up or make sacrifices, diversions, etc. on the fly.

I like to fight when outnumbered. It’s much more stimulating than pressing 1 in the backline of a blob or facerolling the keyboard on most meta roaming classes/builds in 1v1 encounters.

Yeah imagine fantasy all you like buddy. The majority of my 7000+ hours in wvw is solo or 1-5 man play.

So keep on talking about kitten you don’t know.

dank.3680:

The majority of my 7000+ hours in wvw…

o0
I want to be you.

Silversteen.1360:

Give ANet the space to rework the DBL and add them again,

They have reworked them. And given the amount of reworking alpine has got, just adding the new mechanics in, no change to design at all, desert is not going to get the change to design it needs (better strategic location for towers, less paths……). At most they will probably add something to the centre, they should just transplant the ruins from alpine into the centre.

briggah.7910:

gennyt.3428:

briggah.7910:

gennyt.3428:

briggah.7910:

Dristig.9678:

briggah.7910:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

All I see from ppl disliking the ABL so far boil down to “it’s not new so we don’t like it”. Which is a pretty lame and weak argument. Are there real and factual reasons as to why ppl dislike it?

It’s not more blobby or zerg oriented than what I’ve seen from the DBL. That argument is pure unadulterated BS. So, really, what is it?

I’ll tell you what I never noticed in the past before the DBL but notice now that I consider a flaw/bad design. The enemy spawn on each side is so close to the south towers and the side keeps. Doesn’t take long to wp into a map and start attacking a keep.

But that’s the benefit! Action instead of a track meet.

you could prob flip the south towers before the action even gets there

So? This isn’t real war. If enemies are immediately chased off of one of the first objectives (most likely by building a lot siege) then things can get boring real fast. Yay, we still have all of our stuff …but the map is dead. An accessible foothold encourages offensive forces to press which in turn gives defenders and scouts something to do. It’s a give and take, home borderland shouldn’t automatically mean easy defense, this is part of what makes Alpine a functional WvWvW map.

It’s a give and take, home borderland shouldn’t automatically mean easy TAKE, this is part of what makes Alpine a functional as a k-train WvWvW map.

:)

Read what you typed. If you’re going to try being a smartkitten at least do it right.

My argument still stands. You complained about Alpine south towers being hard to defend. Last time I checked, karma trains don’t treb from towers. Anything else?

I went back and reread everything I said and not once did I say they were hard to defend. I said I never noticed this before the DBL came into play BUT the south towers and side keeps are easy to get to just by spawning into the maps. You can get to them pretty fast before the defenders even show up.

then I commented on someone saying faster action.. well you can probably get into lords of south tower before the action even gets there lol

since the BLs came back there have been 2 threads recently about the event notifications popping up. Yes people complained about them in the past but they are annoying more people now because things are constantly flipping more..

Sure an option to turn off capture notifications is fine. My point is that a couple objectives being accessible to enemies is a small price to pay to get people to actually stay on a map.

LoL NooBs.5076:

dank.3680:

The majority of my 7000+ hours in wvw…

o0
I want to be you.

I don’t blame you.

I virtually don’t participate in any other part of the game. Maybe 200 hours in spvp, 1 fractal one time, 3 times I did a dungeon, and as long as it took to unlock elites in pve.

I exaggerated ever so slightly.. Just under 7k not over(

dank.3680:

DeceiverX.8361:

dank.3680:

DeceiverX.8361:

I took enemy-BL hills yesterday with a group of six people against a garbage-tier 30-man blob during NA prime. That was extremely satisfying, and pretty much literally impossible to do in the DBL’s.

So you did a PVDOOR backcap.. How engaging… Such PVP.

You probably don’t know the feeling as I imagine you’re one of those Mag players who rides on the server’s reputation of skilled play while pretending to have skill with “roaming” with 15 people camping solo players from enemy spawns. Fighting outnumbered, partially wiping, and still taking an objective is quite engaging, as the task of staying alive and coordinating people itself is quite difficult and involves a lot of strategy to maintain people up or make sacrifices, diversions, etc. on the fly.

I like to fight when outnumbered. It’s much more stimulating than pressing 1 in the backline of a blob or facerolling the keyboard on most meta roaming classes/builds in 1v1 encounters.

Yeah imagine fantasy all you like buddy. The majority of my 7000+ hours in wvw is solo or 1-5 man play.

So keep on talking about kitten you don’t know.

Seeing as almost all instances of when I saw the XOXO tag in my recent matchup fighting Mag were in groups of at least ten people, and the only person I did see from the guild running alone was a chronomancer who was probably the single worst mesmer I’ve ever seen, I don’t really think it’s too far-fetched.

Particularly when you’re so defensive over being as awesome as you say you are or that my stance has no merit to make an argument over what is fun when opinions and perceptions of fun itself are subjective.

Who am I, though, to make such disillusioned assertions when the penultimate factor in deciding relevance of perception and experience should come from the number of hours spent playing a game.

gennyt.3428:

briggah.7910:

gennyt.3428:

briggah.7910:

gennyt.3428:

briggah.7910:

Dristig.9678:

briggah.7910:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

All I see from ppl disliking the ABL so far boil down to “it’s not new so we don’t like it”. Which is a pretty lame and weak argument. Are there real and factual reasons as to why ppl dislike it?

It’s not more blobby or zerg oriented than what I’ve seen from the DBL. That argument is pure unadulterated BS. So, really, what is it?

I’ll tell you what I never noticed in the past before the DBL but notice now that I consider a flaw/bad design. The enemy spawn on each side is so close to the south towers and the side keeps. Doesn’t take long to wp into a map and start attacking a keep.

But that’s the benefit! Action instead of a track meet.

you could prob flip the south towers before the action even gets there

So? This isn’t real war. If enemies are immediately chased off of one of the first objectives (most likely by building a lot siege) then things can get boring real fast. Yay, we still have all of our stuff …but the map is dead. An accessible foothold encourages offensive forces to press which in turn gives defenders and scouts something to do. It’s a give and take, home borderland shouldn’t automatically mean easy defense, this is part of what makes Alpine a functional WvWvW map.

It’s a give and take, home borderland shouldn’t automatically mean easy TAKE, this is part of what makes Alpine a functional as a k-train WvWvW map.

:)

Read what you typed. If you’re going to try being a smartkitten at least do it right.

My argument still stands. You complained about Alpine south towers being hard to defend. Last time I checked, karma trains don’t treb from towers. Anything else?

I went back and reread everything I said and not once did I say they were hard to defend. I said I never noticed this before the DBL came into play BUT the south towers and side keeps are easy to get to just by spawning into the maps. You can get to them pretty fast before the defenders even show up.

then I commented on someone saying faster action.. well you can probably get into lords of south tower before the action even gets there lol

since the BLs came back there have been 2 threads recently about the event notifications popping up. Yes people complained about them in the past but they are annoying more people now because things are constantly flipping more..

Sure an option to turn off capture notifications is fine. My point is that a couple objectives being accessible to enemies is a small price to pay to get people to actually stay on a map.

lets see how long they last on the old map before they get bored of it and pile into ebg again.

look i’m happy the majority got what they wanted and I even caved in and said give the old maps back but in a way i’m bummed because we will probably not get any thing new ever again. guess only new content this game will ever get is pve stuff lol

Variety is nice, but all things considered, I’ll be glad to see the DBLs back when they come. The problems of WvW ran significantly deeper pre-HoT than just needing a new map. In that respect, I’m sure that the die-hard ABL supporters will try to paint the next few weeks of WvW as a resounding success whilst pushing key features and changes (world-linking, rewards, stability, etc.) to one side as factors in that. However, realistically, DBL may need changes, but it is the more interesting and engaging map of the two to play on when it’s populated. Many good fights were had on the ABLs over the years, but that wasn’t the majority of the time. Much more common were guilds and commanders who were happy to swap between the maps looking for things they could easily PvD, made all the easier by things being quite so close together. I’d say that possibly one of the few significant benefits the community might see from the return of ABL is people getting adjusted to the idea of defensive siege again.

That said, rather than solving any question or issue, I think, more kitten ingly, this thread more just goes to show why a very significant number of players are put off of using the official forum and putting their opinions forward. It genuinely deserves its reputation as being toxic.

Ghedoriah.4290:

That said, rather than solving any question or issue, I think, more kitten ingly, this thread more just goes to show why a very significant number of players are put off of using the official forum and putting their opinions forward. It genuinely deserves its reputation as being toxic.

This. This forum in general is incredibly hostile to divergent opinions. And all of you claiming the “majority” wanted the alpine BLs back have absolutely no factual basis for that claim whatsoever. “Your whole guild wanted them back” is not a factual basis.

For me, I’m glad the alpine BLs are back, if only so that 3 months from now all the desert BL haters can finally realize that DBL was not the problem with WvW when HoT launched. The recent changes to stability, the population balancing changes, and the upcoming scoring changes are dealing with what have always been the core issues with the game, which are finally being fixed.

The BL maps are just preference, and frankly, I’ve never been a fan of the “strategic value” of the towers in the EB or ABL maps, which basically just amounts to being able to fire a treb at a wall uncontested. There’s nothing strategic about that, if anything it’s just plain annoying. Maybe if the towers provided shortcuts around the map, or if they were crucial to maintaining supply routes to the keeps, then they would be strategic.

And I don’t mind wide open spaces for fights, but that’s all ABL has. DBL at least has variety, some wide open spaces, but also some chokepoints (which btw, favor smaller groups, ever seen the movie 300?). And the center objective in ABL is boring. If the one in DBL wasn’t bugged, causing massive lag, it would be way more interesting than the one in ABL. For anyone that cares about fights, they really ought to feel the same way; the DBL center event generated lots of fights (when there was actual population online, of course); the ABL center objective is something you send two people to take and then leave alone.

I don’t mind having ABL for the next 3 months, as long as DBL is rotated back. And when that happens, I would really hope that ABL gets reworked; add a little more terrain variety, add some real strategy to the towers (same goes for DBL), get ride of cata wall spots cause that completely defeats the purpose of keeps as harder to take than towers, and rework the center objective to be something interesting.

DeceiverX.8361:

dank.3680:

DeceiverX.8361:

dank.3680:

DeceiverX.8361:

I took enemy-BL hills yesterday with a group of six people against a garbage-tier 30-man blob during NA prime. That was extremely satisfying, and pretty much literally impossible to do in the DBL’s.

So you did a PVDOOR backcap.. How engaging… Such PVP.

You probably don’t know the feeling as I imagine you’re one of those Mag players who rides on the server’s reputation of skilled play while pretending to have skill with “roaming” with 15 people camping solo players from enemy spawns. Fighting outnumbered, partially wiping, and still taking an objective is quite engaging, as the task of staying alive and coordinating people itself is quite difficult and involves a lot of strategy to maintain people up or make sacrifices, diversions, etc. on the fly.

I like to fight when outnumbered. It’s much more stimulating than pressing 1 in the backline of a blob or facerolling the keyboard on most meta roaming classes/builds in 1v1 encounters.

Yeah imagine fantasy all you like buddy. The majority of my 7000+ hours in wvw is solo or 1-5 man play.

So keep on talking about kitten you don’t know.

Seeing as almost all instances of when I saw the XOXO tag in my recent matchup fighting Mag were in groups of at least ten people, and the only person I did see from the guild running alone was a chronomancer who was probably the single worst mesmer I’ve ever seen, I don’t really think it’s too far-fetched.

Particularly when you’re so defensive over being as awesome as you say you are or that my stance has no merit to make an argument over what is fun when opinions and perceptions of fun itself are subjective.

Who am I, though, to make such disillusioned assertions when the penultimate factor in deciding relevance of perception and experience should come from the number of hours spent playing a game.

Sigh I never said I was anything special, merely defended being classified as a “type”. I also never said anything against anyone playing however they want.

If I was to take a stab at assuming who you are like you did me though- I would go with “wait in the distance while enemy is fighting and jump in to spike the last bit of health after all cd’s are gone then jump on the corspe and proclaim yourself a roamer”.

I enjoyed the DBL, I enjoyed Alpine BL today. If this was actually a vote, I would be voting for the inclusion of Alpine BL in any rotation.

briggah.7910:

gennyt.3428:

briggah.7910:

gennyt.3428:

briggah.7910:

gennyt.3428:

briggah.7910:

Dristig.9678:

briggah.7910:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

All I see from ppl disliking the ABL so far boil down to “it’s not new so we don’t like it”. Which is a pretty lame and weak argument. Are there real and factual reasons as to why ppl dislike it?

It’s not more blobby or zerg oriented than what I’ve seen from the DBL. That argument is pure unadulterated BS. So, really, what is it?

I’ll tell you what I never noticed in the past before the DBL but notice now that I consider a flaw/bad design. The enemy spawn on each side is so close to the south towers and the side keeps. Doesn’t take long to wp into a map and start attacking a keep.

But that’s the benefit! Action instead of a track meet.

you could prob flip the south towers before the action even gets there

So? This isn’t real war. If enemies are immediately chased off of one of the first objectives (most likely by building a lot siege) then things can get boring real fast. Yay, we still have all of our stuff …but the map is dead. An accessible foothold encourages offensive forces to press which in turn gives defenders and scouts something to do. It’s a give and take, home borderland shouldn’t automatically mean easy defense, this is part of what makes Alpine a functional WvWvW map.

It’s a give and take, home borderland shouldn’t automatically mean easy TAKE, this is part of what makes Alpine a functional as a k-train WvWvW map.

:)

Read what you typed. If you’re going to try being a smartkitten at least do it right.

My argument still stands. You complained about Alpine south towers being hard to defend. Last time I checked, karma trains don’t treb from towers. Anything else?

I went back and reread everything I said and not once did I say they were hard to defend. I said I never noticed this before the DBL came into play BUT the south towers and side keeps are easy to get to just by spawning into the maps. You can get to them pretty fast before the defenders even show up.

then I commented on someone saying faster action.. well you can probably get into lords of south tower before the action even gets there lol

since the BLs came back there have been 2 threads recently about the event notifications popping up. Yes people complained about them in the past but they are annoying more people now because things are constantly flipping more..

Sure an option to turn off capture notifications is fine. My point is that a couple objectives being accessible to enemies is a small price to pay to get people to actually stay on a map.

lets see how long they last on the old map before they get bored of it and pile into ebg again.

look i’m happy the majority got what they wanted and I even caved in and said give the old maps back but in a way i’m bummed because we will probably not get any thing new ever again. guess only new content this game will ever get is pve stuff lol

That’s an awful reason to not make new WvWvW stuff. Not our fault that Anet was out of touch and pushed the Desert BLs even after players expressed their concerns. Concerns that just echoed endlessly after the expansion launched. If anything, this should be a learning experience for Anet:

• A game that needs mass player participation means Devs need to pay attention (and they’ve been doing better!)
• Most game developers aren’t blessed with a community as passionate and as resiliant as WvWvWers (like seriously, the crap we put with over 4 years would have likely put other games in the dirt)

Either way, you would need players to fill both maps. It’s nice to see more roamers outside EB, although alot are running around using condis or ganking anything they see, it’s alot more roamer friendly and they can be helpful by stopping supply lines. The only thing to make wvw a little better is making players efforts, during the day contribute more than, when no ones around to defend.

Overcome and adapt bring the desert bl’s back!

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

Seems that at least half of the posts in this “bring it back” thread don’t want it back at all.

Agree…feels like…half of these posts indicate they prefer the Alpine Borderland.

The Desert Borderland map really is nicely done, but require a higher critical mass of players to play on it to make it fun…imho…which WvW is lacking except in the Top 3 Tiers perhaps.

Here’s my opinion based on the Bottom Tier…and the Desert BL is typically Dead.

I prefer the Alpine Borderland, but will play on the Desert Borderland.

Alpine gets more player activity & as a roamer…makes it harder to Cap Camps.

Desert is dead & as a roamer…makes it easier to Cap Camps & Shrines.

Klypto.1703:

Overcome and adapt bring the desert bl’s back!

lol, allow for both. I feel the need to support DBL because it was fun too, but can’t fault the people that missed ABL. They were having fun that was taken from them. Give us both at the same time in some solution. Give people a choice.