Guild Wars 2

Osu.6307:

I can’t speak for all on Mag, but my impression is that the stability buff was the #1 reason for many to return to wvw. ABL helped as well, but is probably #2 at best.

Stability buff helped, but it is most likely #2 reason for people returning. Even after stability got messed up, a lot of people still played, it was just the GvG scene that really died off. When they took away Alpine, that was when the population dip really happened.

While I am glad they changed stability, it doesn’t effect me or my guild much if at all since we’re a roaming group. We returned to WvW because Alpine was returned. I can’t speak for everyone either, but I think stability buff wasn’t nearly as important as Alpine returning.

Cyanon.1928:

“For the last 6 months, I’ve been told daily by players how great and well designed ABL is/was.” – Tyler Bearce, Game Designer ANET

So, now stop complaining against ABL. You are not the majority…

Freedom of speech wants a word with you. No matter which side is the majority, everyone has a right to express their opinion.

Josh XT.6053:

Osu.6307:

I can’t speak for all on Mag, but my impression is that the stability buff was the #1 reason for many to return to wvw. ABL helped as well, but is probably #2 at best.

Stability buff helped, but it is most likely #2 reason for people returning. Even after stability got messed up, a lot of people still played, it was just the GvG scene that really died off. When they took away Alpine, that was when the population dip really happened.

While I am glad they changed stability, it doesn’t effect me or my guild much if at all since we’re a roaming group. We returned to WvW because Alpine was returned. I can’t speak for everyone either, but I think stability buff wasn’t nearly as important as Alpine returning.

Alternative PoV:

The HoT release was the final nail in WvW but:

- It was only the final nail. The game was almost dead beforehand. Just diehards (I was one) logging on out of habit.

- The original DBls were part of the problem, but the worst of those problems have now been fixed.

- Much more a cause of the population problem were all the other new ‘distractions’ – new class, new PvE maps, guild halls, new specialisations, new stats all to grind for.

The population had started to return, from the (very) lowest point even before the April 19th patch as people finished their HoT tasks, but the long-standing problems and the above meant it was never going to get back to days of old.

After April 19th numbers were way up. People were not playing DBl under sufferance but because it was the place for the best fights once the population was big enough to support multiple maps- just like the old days with ABls.

When the ABls returned there was a brief spike in activity for nostalgia, now the numbers are similar if not smaller than the last week of the DBls. But then, of course, that was likely a spike too, due to all the changes introduced on the 19th!

Bottom line: It is impossible to separate all these different problems and changes from one another. Everyone is letting their own Confimation Bias get in the way of a reasoned debate!

@Jong.5937
I can’t speak to what happened in EU, but I can speak to what happened in NA since I have 2 accounts on two different NA servers. Both of which had MASSIVE population spikes when Alpine returned.

Yes, numbers did start rising with the April 19th patch, but it wasn’t because they improved DBL at all, it was because everyone heard “Alpine returning SOON™” from the devs and wanted to get back to the game to brush their rust off for the Alpine return. In that time, so many people in map chat were complaining about how garbage the map was that were returning to the game (at least in the servers I was playing in) and how they were excited about Alpine return.

Sorry to break it to you, but if ANet had said “Alpine isn’t coming back” – people would not have returned. My guild included.

Josh XT.6053:

Yes, numbers did start rising with the April 19th patch, but it wasn’t because they improved DBL at all, it was because everyone heard “Alpine returning SOON™” from the devs

Including me… I was back because they have started to make change (stab, DBL layout) but most of all because ABL will be back soon…

Gotta agree with others above. IMO the only reason you were beginning to see a spike in DBL population before the change was because the 19th patch brought back alot of people with stab changes being the big thing. That combined with ever growing EBG ques meant people basically were forced into DBL until ABL came back “soon” as advertised. We’re seeing much smaller EBG ques now and ques on BLs again it’s pretty obvious more people in-game like ABL.

Josh XT.6053:

Osu.6307:

I can’t speak for all on Mag, but my impression is that the stability buff was the #1 reason for many to return to wvw. ABL helped as well, but is probably #2 at best.

Stability buff helped, but it is most likely #2 reason for people returning. Even after stability got messed up, a lot of people still played, it was just the GvG scene that really died off. When they took away Alpine, that was when the population dip really happened.

While I am glad they changed stability, it doesn’t effect me or my guild much if at all since we’re a roaming group. We returned to WvW because Alpine was returned. I can’t speak for everyone either, but I think stability buff wasn’t nearly as important as Alpine returning.

Stability change is the 1# change along with reward tracks, server linking and so on, that brought life back in wvw again. the Alpine borders come in a 109# or something and has already killed wvw back in the days and will again. People will get tired of this depressive map and do irl stuff instead

TallBarr.2184:

Josh XT.6053:

Osu.6307:

I can’t speak for all on Mag, but my impression is that the stability buff was the #1 reason for many to return to wvw. ABL helped as well, but is probably #2 at best.

Stability buff helped, but it is most likely #2 reason for people returning. Even after stability got messed up, a lot of people still played, it was just the GvG scene that really died off. When they took away Alpine, that was when the population dip really happened.

While I am glad they changed stability, it doesn’t effect me or my guild much if at all since we’re a roaming group. We returned to WvW because Alpine was returned. I can’t speak for everyone either, but I think stability buff wasn’t nearly as important as Alpine returning.

Stability change is the 1# change along with reward tracks, server linking and so on, that brought life back in wvw again. the Alpine borders come in a 109# or something and has already killed wvw back in the days and will again. People will get tired of this depressive map and do irl stuff instead

WvW wasn’t dead until HoT came out. There are number statistics somewhere, I can’t remember where off hand but I think they were on the MOS site or Dulfy.

I would just like to post my opinion. Please do NOT bring back desert borderland EVER. it’s so nice having Alpine back

Allow players to choose. Don’t restrict us. Give people all maps as options at all times. People like different maps for different reasons. Keep as many as possible. Normal decay will remove players overtime. Don’t force any out that you don’t have to.

I prefer DBL atm since it was new to me. I hear the traps got nerfed and think they should be increased again.

3 months of DBL would be a bad thing for some. Can someone please explain the importants of home BL’s. Why would 2 ABL and 1 DBL not tied to a server be bad??

Edit: After playing ABL I see how they are laid out and why all are the same. NVM!

Daggos Skelito.2910:

3 months of DBL would be a bad thing for some. Can someone please explain the importants of home BL’s. Why would 2 ABL and 1 DBL not tied to a server be bad??

Hum because some love the Home BL concept ?
Control “our” map, be “at home”….

Yes for DBL lover it’s quite difficult to understand… Because that map feel more like hell and not home… But on ABL you have that “home” feeling… And ennemy are real invaders…

Sich.7103:

Daggos Skelito.2910:

3 months of DBL would be a bad thing for some. Can someone please explain the importants of home BL’s. Why would 2 ABL and 1 DBL not tied to a server be bad??

Hum because some love the Home BL concept ?
Control “our” map, be “at home”….

Yes for DBL lover it’s quite difficult to understand… Because that map feel more like hell and not home… But on ABL you have that “home” feeling… And ennemy are real invaders…

So it would be better with 2 DBL and 1 ABL or with 1 DBL and 2 ABL………………

Since we mostly have two servers allied together why not a set of borderlands for each server with the two themes. This also addresses the server link issue and identity questions that were raised in other threads. That would also create two EBs since EB continues to be consistently the queued map during DBL and ABL times.

Do I go to my server’s maps or do my allied server’s map need aid.

wolfie.7296:

So it would be better with 2 DBL and 1 ABL or with 1 DBL and 2 ABL………………

Neither. They should make 6 Borderland maps, 3 Alpine, 3 DBL, 1 EBG. This would be a big help for Tier 1 and Tier 2 that have huge queues in prime time and it could also help them to open up the servers to be able to accept more people. Since servers like BG and ET are merged (linked, whatever) together, ET could take a lot of transfers without it causing too many more issues with queues. It is already seeming like its causing problems because BG is full and people are using ET to come play on BG lol.

6 BL ? Continu to link more server for that and being able to queue those maps…

Sich.7103:

6 BL ? Continu to link more server for that and being able to queue those maps…

The point is to not have a bunch of map queues. Reset nights, I don’t even try to play my blackgate account because every map is instantly queued with 60+ people when reset happens lol. If we did have 6 maps, I think it would be a lot more viable.

If they went with 7 maps they’ll have to link T3 and T4 together, sure as kitten don’t get 60 players queues for maps even on reset in T4. Also means BG needs to destack.

Why not leave the ABL’s as is and just add 1 DBL into the mix. Everyone has their home BL, those who want to play DBL can.

TheGrimm.5624:

Allow players to choose. Don’t restrict us. Give people all maps as options at all times. People like different maps for different reasons. Keep as many as possible. Normal decay will remove players overtime. Don’t force any out that you don’t have to.

People did choose. They chose not to play DBL. I don’t get why anyone is arguing for it now.

ABL > DBL just look at how many people are in them now.

style.6173:

TheGrimm.5624:

Allow players to choose. Don’t restrict us. Give people all maps as options at all times. People like different maps for different reasons. Keep as many as possible. Normal decay will remove players overtime. Don’t force any out that you don’t have to.

People did choose. They chose not to play DBL. I don’t get why anyone is arguing for it now.

Probably because many of us realized WvW was dying long before HoT released. Alpine was part of the problem, not the solution.

Give it another week or so and people will get bored again with alpine.

Like/dislike, would be fun to see the numbers from ANet on each map the two weeks before and two weeks after, including EoTM. Still short term numbers but would be interesting from a geeky perspective.

displacedTitan.6897:

Probably because many of us realized WvW was dying long before HoT released. Alpine was part of the problem, not the solution.

Give it another week or so and people will get bored again with alpine.

Funny how people call abl boring and old and a reason to why wvw was dying, yet ebg is just as old, and it still carries a queue every night.

The game play was getting stale, the matchups were getting stale, ppt was getting stale, combat was getting kittened over with certain things like stability changes, no dev dicussion was getting stale. WvW needed new maps, but alpine is minor compared to the overall wvw picture of things as to why it’s dying.

Xenesis.6389:

Funny how people call abl boring and old and a reason to why wvw was dying, yet ebg is just as old, and it still carries a queue every night.

Honest question, why do you queue EBG. To me its the equal footing. What’s your number one? This will help ANet when designing new maps.

Joey.2769:

ABL > DBL just look at how many people are in them now.

Look at how you get a reward chest every 15 minutes right now too.

its hard to compare the 2 when DBL saw that same surge in players when the reward tracks started.

the problem with WVW is far more than the map. the entire system for scoring, to rewards, to the glass ceiling of how big the community can get due to map size, to just how the Power of the Mists rewards you for not even being in WVW and makes the game overall easier as the matchup goes on are all problems. to just name a few

TheGrimm.5624:

Xenesis.6389:

Funny how people call abl boring and old and a reason to why wvw was dying, yet ebg is just as old, and it still carries a queue every night.

Honest question, why do you queue EBG. To me its the equal footing. What’s your number one? This will help ANet when designing new maps.

I haven’t been back on ebg since they returned the alpine map.
I much prefer attacking enemy bl’s, they seem to take it so much more personally.

Alpine BLs might have there flaws here and there, but they are miles better than the deserted borderlands where you barely found enemies to fight except for an occasional karma training zerg. As a roamer the alpine borderlands are way more fun, because you get more frequent fights and camps are actually fought for and not just flipped back and forth. Most people who want DBL back are probably disappointed karma trainers who have to fight for their caps for the first time in a while.

Falan.1839:

Alpine BLs might have there flaws here and there, but they are miles better than the deserted borderlands where you barely found enemies to fight except for an occasional karma training zerg. As a roamer the alpine borderlands are way more fun, because you get more frequent fights and camps are actually fought for and not just flipped back and forth. Most people who want DBL back are probably disappointed karma trainers who have to fight for their caps for the first time in a while.

Desert way better, more incentive for the enemy to cap stuff and for the defenders to defend, in Alpine u not even gonna bother trying to cap t3 hill or bay beaquse the defenders get there so quick and its so easy to defend. When theres no blob fight on alpine its a dead map. In desert map u could havoc and cap stuff with small groups but in Alpine you cant. Bad map is bad. #bringbacksand #makewvwgreatagain

TallBarr.2184:

Falan.1839:

Alpine BLs might have there flaws here and there, but they are miles better than the deserted borderlands where you barely found enemies to fight except for an occasional karma training zerg. As a roamer the alpine borderlands are way more fun, because you get more frequent fights and camps are actually fought for and not just flipped back and forth. Most people who want DBL back are probably disappointed karma trainers who have to fight for their caps for the first time in a while.

Desert way better, more incentive for the enemy to cap stuff and for the defenders to defend, in Alpine u not even gonna bother trying to cap t3 hill or bay beaquse the defenders get there so quick and its so easy to defend. When theres no blob fight on alpine its a dead map. In desert map u could havoc and cap stuff with small groups but in Alpine you cant. Bad map is bad. #bringbacksand #makewvwgreatagain

Nice troll

Jim Hunter.6821:

TallBarr.2184:

Falan.1839:

Alpine BLs might have there flaws here and there, but they are miles better than the deserted borderlands where you barely found enemies to fight except for an occasional karma training zerg. As a roamer the alpine borderlands are way more fun, because you get more frequent fights and camps are actually fought for and not just flipped back and forth. Most people who want DBL back are probably disappointed karma trainers who have to fight for their caps for the first time in a while.

Desert way better, more incentive for the enemy to cap stuff and for the defenders to defend, in Alpine u not even gonna bother trying to cap t3 hill or bay beaquse the defenders get there so quick and its so easy to defend. When theres no blob fight on alpine its a dead map. In desert map u could havoc and cap stuff with small groups but in Alpine you cant. Bad map is bad. #bringbacksand #makewvwgreatagain

Nice troll

Back at you, if you disagree you are a troll, troll.

TheGrimm.5624:

Xenesis.6389:

Funny how people call abl boring and old and a reason to why wvw was dying, yet ebg is just as old, and it still carries a queue every night.

Honest question, why do you queue EBG. To me its the equal footing. What’s your number one? This will help ANet when designing new maps.

Depends on what time I’m logging on and who’s on with me. I queue it if I’m going solo and looking to get into everything I want in wvw quickly, roam, duel, zerg, defend. If I have a group of friends on we usually go havoc on a bl just to mess with the enemy and get some small fights out of it. But before HoT a lot of our time was spent on alpine bl doing all of the above.

I’ve stated before I think they should have designed every map with the ebg concept, that way today we could have had 4 different maps in wvw and everyone would have the maps they preferred (although no one really wants eotm as a main wvw map). Future maps need to be of the ebg design, fortunately you can have multiples of those running without worry about being fair to a home side so it can be run along side ebg.

P.S What they should have done with Desert bl is made it in the ebg format and then run it along with alpine home bls and ebg. Ebg has always been the most popular map so I dunno why they didn’t think to make another one, although being what the population spread was before it would have been pointless to add a 5th map for other than T1/2, different story with the links now though.

TallBarr.2184:

Jim Hunter.6821:

TallBarr.2184:

Falan.1839:

Alpine BLs might have there flaws here and there, but they are miles better than the deserted borderlands where you barely found enemies to fight except for an occasional karma training zerg. As a roamer the alpine borderlands are way more fun, because you get more frequent fights and camps are actually fought for and not just flipped back and forth. Most people who want DBL back are probably disappointed karma trainers who have to fight for their caps for the first time in a while.

Desert way better, more incentive for the enemy to cap stuff and for the defenders to defend, in Alpine u not even gonna bother trying to cap t3 hill or bay beaquse the defenders get there so quick and its so easy to defend. When theres no blob fight on alpine its a dead map. In desert map u could havoc and cap stuff with small groups but in Alpine you cant. Bad map is bad. #bringbacksand #makewvwgreatagain

Nice troll

Back at you, if you disagree you are a troll, troll.

Somebody’s dusting off the 1980’s insults!

TallBarr.2184:

Falan.1839:

Alpine BLs might have there flaws here and there, but they are miles better than the deserted borderlands where you barely found enemies to fight except for an occasional karma training zerg. As a roamer the alpine borderlands are way more fun, because you get more frequent fights and camps are actually fought for and not just flipped back and forth. Most people who want DBL back are probably disappointed karma trainers who have to fight for their caps for the first time in a while.

Desert way better, more incentive for the enemy to cap stuff and for the defenders to defend, in Alpine u not even gonna bother trying to cap t3 hill or bay beaquse the defenders get there so quick and its so easy to defend. When theres no blob fight on alpine its a dead map. In desert map u could havoc and cap stuff with small groups but in Alpine you cant. Bad map is bad. #bringbacksand #makewvwgreatagain

So you’re mad you can’t PvD? Omgerrd lol.

Also shout out to QQ. Trolling DB Hills and bag farming until their float team came to help 20 people kill 9 was hilarious.

Xenesis.6389:

I’ve stated before I think they should have designed every map with the ebg concept, that way today we could have had 4 different maps in wvw and everyone would have the maps they preferred (although no one really wants eotm as a main wvw map). Future maps need to be of the ebg design, fortunately you can have multiples of those running without worry about being fair to a home side so it can be run along side ebg.

P.S What they should have done with Desert bl is made it in the ebg format and then run it along with alpine home bls and ebg. Ebg has always been the most popular map so I dunno why they didn’t think to make another one, although being what the population spread was before it would have been pointless to add a 5th map for other than T1/2, different story with the links now though.

Thanks for the reply. I think its important for people to say why they like EBG so that if ANet is thinking about new map designs they can understand why it works. Agree that is the consistent aspect in the whole ABL/DBL, EBG remains to be queued. Side note, I am one of the few vocal that like EoTM’s design. It has that EBG feel but with varied places for fights and some places that positioning is important to consider while fighting. Good hunting!

They have try the EBG concept on DBL and it was a big fail (1 WP / team on each map).
The map itself was a big fail.

EBG have more people because you have more fight.
Why you have fight ? Because the map is designed for that ! Tower can hit keep, SM can be hit by tower, etc… You are always under pression from somewhere.

Structures are close to each other, this mean you are fast in fight.

Exact opposite of DBL where there was no connection at all between the structures… Useless tower (really useless). We have to wait the come back of the WP in the keep at T3 to begin to see some activity on the map. To finally have keep with a little tactical value.

On my side I hate the 3 side map and I want to play at “home”.
But if you want more activity on a map you need more connection between structures… Each thing you take should help you or be under pressure from something else. This mean you are never completly secure and have to always fight.

TallBarr.2184:

Falan.1839:

Alpine BLs might have there flaws here and there, but they are miles better than the deserted borderlands where you barely found enemies to fight except for an occasional karma training zerg. As a roamer the alpine borderlands are way more fun, because you get more frequent fights and camps are actually fought for and not just flipped back and forth. Most people who want DBL back are probably disappointed karma trainers who have to fight for their caps for the first time in a while.

Desert way better, more incentive for the enemy to cap stuff and for the defenders to defend, in Alpine u not even gonna bother trying to cap t3 hill or bay beaquse the defenders get there so quick and its so easy to defend. When theres no blob fight on alpine its a dead map. In desert map u could havoc and cap stuff with small groups but in Alpine you cant. Bad map is bad. #bringbacksand #makewvwgreatagain

I hear EotM is a great place to pvdoor with no resistance. In fact, I believe that is the primary play mode there.

Sich.7103:

On my side I hate the 3 side map and I want to play at “home”.
But if you want more activity on a map you need more connection between structures… Each thing you take should help you or be under pressure from something else. This mean you are never completly secure and have to always fight.

You’re completely right. I prefer the DBL over the Alpine one, but I still think these useless towers and the way everything seems unconnected is a major design flaw. I hope Anet will be able to fix it when the DBLs rotate back.

gennyt.3428:

TallBarr.2184:

Falan.1839:

Alpine BLs might have there flaws here and there, but they are miles better than the deserted borderlands where you barely found enemies to fight except for an occasional karma training zerg. As a roamer the alpine borderlands are way more fun, because you get more frequent fights and camps are actually fought for and not just flipped back and forth. Most people who want DBL back are probably disappointed karma trainers who have to fight for their caps for the first time in a while.

Desert way better, more incentive for the enemy to cap stuff and for the defenders to defend, in Alpine u not even gonna bother trying to cap t3 hill or bay beaquse the defenders get there so quick and its so easy to defend. When theres no blob fight on alpine its a dead map. In desert map u could havoc and cap stuff with small groups but in Alpine you cant. Bad map is bad. #bringbacksand #makewvwgreatagain

So you’re mad you can’t PvD? Omgerrd lol.

---

Also shout out to QQ. Trolling DB Hills and bag farming until their float team came to help 20 people kill 9 was hilarious.

You need objectives to fight over, and if there are no objectives to fight over theres no fights. Funnier to fight in a structure then on a open field where everyone pirate ship til the other team loses 5 people and retreats.

Substance E.4852:

TallBarr.2184:

Falan.1839:

Alpine BLs might have there flaws here and there, but they are miles better than the deserted borderlands where you barely found enemies to fight except for an occasional karma training zerg. As a roamer the alpine borderlands are way more fun, because you get more frequent fights and camps are actually fought for and not just flipped back and forth. Most people who want DBL back are probably disappointed karma trainers who have to fight for their caps for the first time in a while.

Desert way better, more incentive for the enemy to cap stuff and for the defenders to defend, in Alpine u not even gonna bother trying to cap t3 hill or bay beaquse the defenders get there so quick and its so easy to defend. When theres no blob fight on alpine its a dead map. In desert map u could havoc and cap stuff with small groups but in Alpine you cant. Bad map is bad. #bringbacksand #makewvwgreatagain

I hear EotM is a great place to pvdoor with no resistance. In fact, I believe that is the primary play mode there.

Theres a higher chance of resistance in eotm than Alpine. Alpine is the biggest karmatrain fest ever. Desert border was the superior map for fighting. Structures that would open up for interesting fights. Now we got bay lol, 80% water gg, underwater combat so superior, disengage and swim away like a little dolphin or mermaid when you are losing a fight.

I had more fight on few days on ABL that on month on DBL…
People who come back to defend, fight over supply camp, fight to hold the tower to not allow your ennemy to treb you…

On DBL there where close to no fight around tower, they are useless… Just take it back later. Close to no fight on supply camp… Too far, the time you join the camp it’s already flip.
And the keep… Before the WP change no fight on keep because they are useless except PPT…. It’s cheaper to take back the stuff that to build tons of siege to defend it… And at least no need for scout..

Yeah, DBL was so fun for PvD all the day….

Sich.7103:

I had more fight on few days on ABL that on month on DBL…
People who come back to defend, fight over supply camp, fight to hold the tower to not allow your ennemy to treb you…

On DBL there where close to no fight around tower, they are useless… Just take it back later. Close to no fight on supply camp… Too far, the time you join the camp it’s already flip.
And the keep… Before the WP change no fight on keep because they are useless except PPT…. It’s cheaper to take back the stuff that to build tons of siege to defend it… And at least no need for scout..

Yeah, DBL was so fun for PvD all the day….

You probably didnt play wvw, or you just on some bad server with no fights, I am in t1 and there was fights all the time near the north towers. Maybe you played another game. Sure, there were “barely” no fights at the south ones but thats beaquse the distance is so long. The enemy teams also need an incentive to take objectives on the map to stay on the map. Again you probably play sims animal friends 3 or something, there was fights on the keeps all the time. You probably some pve hero who only play wvw 30 min after tequatlielr.

Yeah, I’m only in T1 EU…. During the day the map was completly dead…. EB queued at 4pm…

Alpines are awesome. Stop asking for those pve maps. Or add it as eotm mk2.

Took a brief hiatus from the game and I see old maps have been brought back…

I’m dual legend with 1.5k+ hours of game play solely from old maps. I remember the details of the maps so intricately that I can visualize the complete layout in my head. I’m tired of playing them.

1. They are too small and elite specs are too mobile for such small areas.
2. The terrain is simple and does not often allow for one to use it as leverage in as great a way could be done on the new maps… Essentially taking away possibilites.
3. I’m sure many others are simply tired of looking at this kitten.

Substance E.4852:

I hear EotM is a great place to pvdoor with no resistance. In fact, I believe that is the primary play mode there.

Will use EoTM while waiting on EBG queue pops. Had a 30 some minute wait the other day. During that time Red was defending their keep between the inner and outer walls in the open fields. It was a massive 3 sided fight with all 3 sides map zergs present and running back. Red finally killed the other 2 sides off and was pushing out when I got my queue pop. Was very similar to three sided fights near Stonemist, but there were more ledges.

People PvD in both standard WvW and EoTM. In standard its for PPT and/or to move to another objective or because they want to feel they are aiding their side and/or for personal gain.

EoTM needs to be adjusted for scoring as well to create more value in the end of game score. But that said, considering it has very little meaning, some people like winning match ups for its own sake. Online shooters have massive amount of players that play micro games that have no meaning on the next game but they still enjoy it. We have people in this game like that too. Its the game mechanics that prevent EoTM from adding into standard WvW.

JayAction.9056:

Took a brief hiatus from the game and I see old maps have been brought back…

I’m dual legend with 1.5k+ hours of game play solely from old maps. I remember the details of the maps so intricately that I can visualize the complete layout in my head. I’m tired of playing them.

1. They are too small and elite specs are too mobile for such small areas.
2. The terrain is simple and does not often allow for one to use it as leverage in as great a way could be done on the new maps… Essentially taking away possibilites.
3. I’m sure many others are simply tired of looking at this kitten.

This. So much.

And with the elite specs and this map, roaming to harass camps/yaks is dead, as the zerg WILL see you and peel of a team to squash you.

I get that some people ‘like’ Alpine (hint- they really just like the easy ways to squash zergs into zergs for bags by pressing 1) but others were/are sick of it. I’d like to see at least one borderland replaced with Desert. Or maybe stick it in the upper right as a second overflow map. We got 2 new WvW maps in 3 years, and everyone just whined about them. Soon the dev team will say to heck with it and just go back to ignoring the mode.

Sich.7103:

They have try the EBG concept on DBL and it was a big fail (1 WP / team on each map).
The map itself was a big fail.

EBG have more people because you have more fight.
Why you have fight ? Because the map is designed for that ! Tower can hit keep, SM can be hit by tower, etc… You are always under pression from somewhere.

Structures are close to each other, this mean you are fast in fight.

Exact opposite of DBL where there was no connection at all between the structures… Useless tower (really useless). We have to wait the come back of the WP in the keep at T3 to begin to see some activity on the map. To finally have keep with a little tactical value.

On my side I hate the 3 side map and I want to play at “home”.
But if you want more activity on a map you need more connection between structures… Each thing you take should help you or be under pressure from something else. This mean you are never completly secure and have to always fight.

No, it was designed as a home bl map and they tried a new concept in trying to force players into chokes on the outer areas of the map, the entire map was designed with that one concept in mind. They placed the waypoints in the south towers at first so attackers would have easier access to the middle part of the map which was more open and easier access to every other area of the map, then you could waypoint and run back to fights quicker. Especially for the middle cannon event since garrison has a waypoint close by.

Then later they moved the waypoint to the side keeps to give them more value because who the hell wants to fight over a keep when it doesn’t even give a permanent waypoint? but defenders still didn’t get access to one so why bother with the keep. Finally they went back to the old system of whomever upgrades it to T3 gets the waypoint. Now the problem is none of the towers have any value.

The advantage of a home map is that it takes the attackers longer to reach your north area for your towers and garrison so you have time to prepare your defense, if you don’t bother with defense then those towers could be taken and turned against you.

EBG is an equal opportunity map, you have equal amount of structures to hold, every side has 2 structures they can treb smc from, smc can also treb all outer structures on every side. Travel is not a pain in the kitten, and yet there is opportunity to ambush opponents. Whether you are a roamer or a blobber you can find those fights in EBG easily. SMC usually draws the biggest fights out as well, there’s usually something to do around it. It’s still the one middle area idea that has worked.

TallBarr.2184:

Desert border was the superior map for fighting.

I honestly can’t tell if you’re a troll or just have no idea what you are talking about.