I honestly can’t tell if you’re a troll or just have no idea what you are talking about.
Could be they had a different experience on the maps. My havoc found it easier to hit zergs and get away, same while soloing, where as with ABL it was port or get run over. Also was easier to slow a zerg in a choke point to give people ahead time to get into position.
On further thought they could just add the desert to red borderlands and leave alpine on blue and green. Should be easier for red team to hold desert rather than alpine, give them a little help in matchups.
Another derailing post. ^^ North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed.
“Game over man, Game Over!” – RIP Bill
? I’ve seen no evidence that the DBls are easier to defend. Different for sure, in lots of ways. But easier to secure?
We only really had one week of the revised DBls, with restored population and a lot of people were still learning the maps, so it’s hard to say anything for sure, but before the update the DBls were a kaleidoscope of colours caused by karma trains. After the update, I’d say keeps were fought over, won and lost, similarly to the ABls, except the optimal siege locations (offensive and defensive) are less well understood. Northern towers flip more because they are more isolated and less strategic. Southern towers maybe are more often held by the offfense as they are further away from Garri (or at least feel it). So I wouldn’t say that the DBls would be an advantage for the defending team.
? I’ve seen no evidence that the DBls are easier to defend. Different for sure, in lots of ways. But easier to secure?
It was waaaaaay easier to secure in the sense that enemies didnt want to play there any more than you and defending the keeps was simpler if you prefered siege over fights. All that mattered on DBL was siege, siege and even more siege. The high walls made it impossible to attack up there and all towers/keeps where designed to hold the high ground on inner with impossible to hit siege (bay being the most obvious example).
And that is why I find the claim that DBL was better for “fighting” while Alpine is “karma training” hilarious. Simpler towers and keeps means that it brings the players to the foreground, rather than the defensive design of the structures. Fighting, not sieging. Sure you can still siege hump like crazy but it has always seemed just plain more fun meeting that on alpine.
The only thing DBL IMO truly did better was lords and the way that that doors where designed (the extending walls). One might argue visuals as well and yeah DBL was definetly prettier, but ultimately that’s just eye candy. It did very little or nothing at all for the gameplay. Even the eye candy that did affect the way we played – the stealth cloud around garri for example – was more annoying than anything else. Zone wide weather effects (ie sandstorms) would have been far more interesting, but I digress.
We only had one week of active play in DBl and all I can do is repeat the discussion that has been going on here ad-nauseam – people’s experiences differed. We had a very interesting 10 days on the DBls before they were swapped out. I’m not an ABl hater, I’m very glad it’s in rotation, should have been from the start, but the DBls were not as you described here, at the end.
We had good fights that were won and lost for all 3 keeps, on the new, improved maps, when people had returned. I think there is just a lot more work to be done to understand the best strategies for the new maps, when everyone knows the ABls backwards. Personally I think that’s good, but it’s clear not all agree.
We only had one week of active play in DBl and all I can do is repeat the discussion that has been going on here ad-nauseam – people’s experiences differed. We had a very interesting 10 days on the DBls before they were swapped out. I’m not an ABl hater, I’m very glad it’s in rotation, should have been from the start, but the DBls were not as you described here, at the end.
We had good fights that were won and lost for all 3 keeps, on the new, improved maps, when people had returned. I think there is just a lot more work to be done to understand the best strategies for the new maps, when everyone knows the ABls backwards. Personally I think that’s good, but it’s clear not all agree.
We only had 1 week of active play for a few reasons.
When they were released and people spent several weeks getting to know the maps, so many were disgusted with them to the point that they would only play in EBG or quit playing all together. This led to 6 months of the map being dead.
They literally cut the number of servers in half and at the same time started showing the first real interest in WvW in years, resulting in huge EBG queues.
Players that had completely quit started returning to the game because they heard the alpine was returning, and the massive EBG queues left them with the choice to either play crappy eotm or crappy dbl.
The devs are going to rework the map to be more likable to the masses.
The devs will probably make a video showing their progress and ask our opinion.
The devs will keep working on it and someday bring it back into rotation when it’s in a wvw worthy state.
/thread
The devs would have better luck starting from scratch.
^ I concur.
Start from the beginning designing it around keeping players in the action not trying to get to it and give them a reason to be there. Give them easy to access terrain with direct routes, where you do not spend more than a few seconds in between each one. Objectives should be simple and easy to scout. Make it so players can actually use their skills everywhere..
These things should be the primary focus when building the map , not trying to come back later and force the map to try to add these things after it is already messed up.
[KILL]Killing Tiers Leader [TOON] Toons of Terror Leader [NEWS This Just In Leader
WvW / PVP ONLY
The devs are going to rework the map to be more likable to the masses.
The devs will probably make a video showing their progress and ask our opinion.
The devs will keep working on it and someday bring it back into rotation when it’s in a wvw worthy state.
/thread
The devs would have better luck starting from scratch.
^ I concur.
Start from the beginning designing it around keeping players in the action not trying to get to it and give them a reason to be there. Give them easy to access terrain with direct routes, where you do not spend more than a few seconds in between each one. Objectives should be simple and easy to scout. Make it so players can actually use their skills everywhere..
These things should be the primary focus when building the map , not trying to come back later and force the map to try to add these things after it is already messed up.
Along with that they need to focus on function over flavor. Keep out the random obstacles on the ground that block projectiles, teleports and leaps.
Having obstacles to LoS (like the huts in alpine supply camps) is great, but you need to be able to see that they are there. The outcome of a fight shouldn’t be determined by crappy terrain bugs.
Keep the ground smooth, use ramps instead of stairs.
The devs are going to rework the map to be more likable to the masses.
The devs will probably make a video showing their progress and ask our opinion.
The devs will keep working on it and someday bring it back into rotation when it’s in a wvw worthy state.
/thread
The devs would have better luck starting from scratch.
^ I concur.
Start from the beginning designing it around keeping players in the action not trying to get to it and give them a reason to be there. Give them easy to access terrain with direct routes, where you do not spend more than a few seconds in between each one. Objectives should be simple and easy to scout. Make it so players can actually use their skills everywhere..
These things should be the primary focus when building the map , not trying to come back later and force the map to try to add these things after it is already messed up.
Along with that they need to focus on function over flavor. Keep out the random obstacles on the ground that block projectiles, teleports and leaps.
Having obstacles to LoS (like the huts in alpine supply camps) is great, but you need to be able to see that they are there. The outcome of a fight shouldn’t be determined by crappy terrain bugs.
Keep the ground smooth, use ramps instead of stairs.
In a nutshell, previous posters want a map with no design, perfectly smooth and flat, with more or less infinite depth of view, and objectives close to each others so that tedious runs would be avoided.
The devs are going to rework the map to be more likable to the masses.
The devs will probably make a video showing their progress and ask our opinion.
The devs will keep working on it and someday bring it back into rotation when it’s in a wvw worthy state.
/thread
The devs would have better luck starting from scratch.
^ I concur.
Start from the beginning designing it around keeping players in the action not trying to get to it and give them a reason to be there. Give them easy to access terrain with direct routes, where you do not spend more than a few seconds in between each one. Objectives should be simple and easy to scout. Make it so players can actually use their skills everywhere..
These things should be the primary focus when building the map , not trying to come back later and force the map to try to add these things after it is already messed up.
Along with that they need to focus on function over flavor. Keep out the random obstacles on the ground that block projectiles, teleports and leaps.
Having obstacles to LoS (like the huts in alpine supply camps) is great, but you need to be able to see that they are there. The outcome of a fight shouldn’t be determined by crappy terrain bugs.
Keep the ground smooth, use ramps instead of stairs.
In a nutshell, previous posters want a map with no design, perfectly smooth and flat, with more or less infinite depth of view, and objectives close to each others so that tedious runs would be avoided.
Doesn’t have to be perfectly flat to use your skills.. but not overly complicated as the DBLs are rendering some classes useless due to terrain. The ABL and EBG keep design was superior for combat skill usage and scouting than the DBL.
You don’t put things in a PvP game mode that prevent you from using your PvP skills.. That should have never happened.
[KILL]Killing Tiers Leader [TOON] Toons of Terror Leader [NEWS This Just In Leader
WvW / PVP ONLY
The devs are going to rework the map to be more likable to the masses.
The devs will probably make a video showing their progress and ask our opinion.
The devs will keep working on it and someday bring it back into rotation when it’s in a wvw worthy state.
/thread
The devs would have better luck starting from scratch.
And not use a freaking desert theme…
Glad I am not the only one who thinks it is awful… but really with everything else wrong with it, that is the least of my concerns. I am not overly concerned with their ugly skin usage when the maps are so dysfunctional in so many other ways.
[KILL]Killing Tiers Leader [TOON] Toons of Terror Leader [NEWS This Just In Leader
WvW / PVP ONLY
The devs are going to rework the map to be more likable to the masses.
The devs will probably make a video showing their progress and ask our opinion.
The devs will keep working on it and someday bring it back into rotation when it’s in a wvw worthy state.
/thread
The devs would have better luck starting from scratch.
^ I concur.
Start from the beginning designing it around keeping players in the action not trying to get to it and give them a reason to be there. Give them easy to access terrain with direct routes, where you do not spend more than a few seconds in between each one. Objectives should be simple and easy to scout. Make it so players can actually use their skills everywhere..
These things should be the primary focus when building the map , not trying to come back later and force the map to try to add these things after it is already messed up.
Along with that they need to focus on function over flavor. Keep out the random obstacles on the ground that block projectiles, teleports and leaps.
Having obstacles to LoS (like the huts in alpine supply camps) is great, but you need to be able to see that they are there. The outcome of a fight shouldn’t be determined by crappy terrain bugs.
Keep the ground smooth, use ramps instead of stairs.
In a nutshell, previous posters want a map with no design, perfectly smooth and flat, with more or less infinite depth of view, and objectives close to each others so that tedious runs would be avoided.
You (probably intentionally) misunderstood me. There is nothing wrong with including variety like hills, large boulders, trees, etc.
We just don’t need annoying little trip hazards like the root in dbl sw tower, and we don’t need the terrain that is a thousand little steps instead of a smooth ramp (used to kill you because of the fall damage bug, obstructs projectiles, screws up movement skills).
This is a problem on every map.
The devs would have better luck starting from scratch.
For something that probably took up to 2 years to develop I just find that really sad!
With the changes they have made its makes an interesting and different map to fight in, on rotation. I honestly don’t think you have given it a chance after the changes. To throw it all away and be stuck with the same 4 year old maps for maybe another 2 would just be really sad.
The Alpine maps are too small, simple and boring. Please can we have the Desert maps back?
Lol what?
There is a reason why anet replacing old alpine map over desert bl
lot of people agree (including my self) that alpine is way better than desert bl x 10000
seriously that desert bl is so crappy that no one hardly played on the map except the minority and ended up most of people playing on EB and i dont want that happen again.
and no i dont want the rotation either maybe i suggest anet should make whole new desert battle ground separately along with alpine eotm and ebg but i highly doubt anyone would play on desert bl over alpine except the minority of people.
why not play eotm? its pretty much similar to desert bl
We only had one week of active play in DBl and all I can do is repeat the discussion that has been going on here ad-nauseam – people’s experiences differed. We had a very interesting 10 days on the DBls before they were swapped out. I’m not an ABl hater, I’m very glad it’s in rotation, should have been from the start, but the DBls were not as you described here, at the end.
We had good fights that were won and lost for all 3 keeps, on the new, improved maps, when people had returned. I think there is just a lot more work to be done to understand the best strategies for the new maps, when everyone knows the ABls backwards. Personally I think that’s good, but it’s clear not all agree.
We only had 1 week of active play for a few reasons.
When they were released and people spent several weeks getting to know the maps, so many were disgusted with them to the point that they would only play in EBG or quit playing all together. This led to 6 months of the map being dead.
They literally cut the number of servers in half and at the same time started showing the first real interest in WvW in years, resulting in huge EBG queues.
Players that had completely quit started returning to the game because they heard the alpine was returning, and the massive EBG queues left them with the choice to either play crappy eotm or crappy dbl.
THIS
DESERT BL was one of reason that so many wvw players ended up leaving/quitting gw2 or stopped playing wvw or only plays EBG.
yea i know its always great to try new maps but DESERT BL IS NO
revert desert bl over alpine again and see what happens i bet everyone will quit playing and this time they wont be returning again.
best idea would be adding desert bl as an extra so we can play both alpine and desert since some people wana play on desert as well. (though i wont be playing desert bl unless there is a huge change)
“For the last 6 months, I’ve been told daily by players how great and well designed ABL is/was.” – Tyler Bearce, Game Designer ANET = WELL SAID
Really enjoying Alpine BL, being having way more fights then I ever saw on Desert BL and also more roaming groups despite the number of large groups on T1. On player death/group wipe it’s also way easier to get back into the fight again, or to find enemies in the first place.
I did spend alot of time on the Desert BL after HOT came out, the map definitely has it’s good points. The last “map pass” definitely improved navigation, think the map could still use more improvements here. Removing the smaller obstacles like the random tree roots sticking out of the ground would help as well.
When DBL is rotated back in, I would suggest setting each borderland map to either Alpine or Desert randomly, with max of two identical borderlands.
The devs would have better luck starting from scratch.
For something that probably took up to 2 years to develop I just find that really sad!
With the changes they have made its makes an interesting and different map to fight in, on rotation. I honestly don’t think you have given it a chance after the changes. To throw it all away and be stuck with the same 4 year old maps for maybe another 2 would just be really sad.
(So true I said it twice!)
It’s hard to feel bad for a company that blindly goes into creating a product but doesn’t listen at all to its customers. Worse than that not only did they not listen but they continued not to listen for almost 6 months after release.
The devs would have better luck starting from scratch.
For something that probably took up to 2 years to develop I just find that really sad!
With the changes they have made its makes an interesting and different map to fight in, on rotation. I honestly don’t think you have given it a chance after the changes. To throw it all away and be stuck with the same 4 year old maps for maybe another 2 would just be really sad.
(So true I said it twice!)
I spent plenty of time in it after the last change (because ebg queues were so high I couldn’t get in), the map was slightly less terrible but it still only encouraged zerging.
My total time on the dbl is probably something pretty low like 50ish hours, that isn’t enough time to learn all the best spots to attack each structure but it’s plenty of time to learn all the short cuts around the map. In 1 hour on alpine I found more roaming fights than all my hours on the dbl.
I spent plenty of time in it after the last change (because ebg queues were so high I couldn’t get in), the map was slightly less terrible but it still only encouraged zerging.
My total time on the dbl is probably something pretty low like 50ish hours, that isn’t enough time to learn all the best spots to attack each structure but it’s plenty of time to learn all the short cuts around the map. In 1 hour on alpine I found more roaming fights than all my hours on the dbl.
I’m not sure it encourages zerging… As you said, DBL provides lots of shortcuts all around, from one place to another. Even if many people think it’s tedious, I see it more as a way to allow small group of players to dispatch, reach multiple points without being seen, escape from scouts etc. In that way, it doesn’t encourage zerging. Anyway, whichever map is concerned, zerging always work for the sheer power of numbers. And as lots of players choose it the easy way… Still, the lack of roaming fights can come from too much shortcuts and ways that’d dilute the overall population. There’re less paths in ABL, and they’re more open, so it’s easier to find people.
And as far as I’m concerned, I’ve seen far more zerging in ABL than in DBL.
BTW, for the other post, it was indeed an intentionnal misunderstanding, written just by overexaggereting what I was reading.
The Alpine maps are too small, simple and boring. Please can we have the Desert maps back?
No I greatly enjoy the alpine maps, and the desert maps are too cluttered with PvE. If you want the desert maps you have EoTM to fulfill your PvE needs
Glad I am not the only one who thinks it is awful…
Devil, I am sorry our experiences differed and I want everyone to have fun even if I don’t agree with them, but siding with peeps from your own server does not aid the issue.
It’s not because we wanted a new map to change from ABL that we want DBL who is a very very poor designed map with too much gimmick and pve stuff ! I just remember that stupid oasis event…. This event was removed because of lag, not because he was BS !
DBL is not a good answer to WvW stillness.
It’s not because we wanted a new map to change from ABL that we want DBL who is a very very poor designed map with too much gimmick and pve stuff ! I just remember that stupid oasis event…. This event was removed because of lag, not because he was BS !
DBL is not a good answer to WvW stillness.
Really, please stop bringing things up that are no longer part of the map. All it does is make it sound like you were so set against the DBl because of it’s original (yes, very frustrating) state, you are unable to judge the current map. The same when people talk about how empty it was and was just for karma training.
The only comments that matter were people’s experiences after the 19th April. Yes, I realise some still hated them, that much is very clear. But every time someone starts by talking about empty maps and features that are now removed it just makes the opinion redundant.
If we threw things away and started again everytime someone initially released a flawed map or feature we would never get any new content!
The oasis event was removed the time they find how to fix it….
They never say it’s permanent…
And after the different change the map is playable, but not fun at all.. And the tower continu to be useless. Keep are always too big, hard to scout… Bad design, ugly…. Desert feel like hell and not like home…. And so much thing to add…
The view of a substantial number, it’s true, although a lot of those still justify that view by referring to problems pre-19th April. But it’s not universal. And no one group gets to define what is WvW.
Personally, I like both and will enjoy the change when the DBls return. Not to say they are perfect! I still hope they remove some of the mobility problems around the north of the map, give the north towers a purpose to fight over and find a good use for the centre of the map on both Bls! (although if they haven’t found a solution to that in 4 years it may be a pipe dream!)
I’m enjoying the return of the Alpine Maps. They are simple and made for fighting. I want to fight other players…not fight the map to just get to other players.
When the time comes to go back to the DBL’s, I’ll just go back to EB or even put GW2 aside until the Alpine maps return.
PF/ GOAT on Tarnished Coast (Semi-Retired)
Raf Longshanks-80 Norn Guardian / 9 more alts of various lvls / Charter Member Altaholics Anon
The devs would have better luck starting from scratch.
For something that probably took up to 2 years to develop I just find that really sad!
With the changes they have made its makes an interesting and different map to fight in, on rotation. I honestly don’t think you have given it a chance after the changes. To throw it all away and be stuck with the same 4 year old maps for maybe another 2 would just be really sad.
(So true I said it twice!)
I spent plenty of time in it after the last change (because ebg queues were so high I couldn’t get in), the map was slightly less terrible but it still only encouraged zerging.
My total time on the dbl is probably something pretty low like 50ish hours, that isn’t enough time to learn all the best spots to attack each structure but it’s plenty of time to learn all the short cuts around the map. In 1 hour on alpine I found more roaming fights than all my hours on the dbl.
That last sentence has been my experience also. And that says a lot. It’s obvious that Alpine is much more agreeable to WvWers than DBL. Just by reading on probably all WvW forums there are, almost all players who like to fight(what wvw is about)don’t like DBL. Yeah, anyone can find a positive or two about it, but when it comes to producing constant fights, Alpine blows it’s doors off in popularity. I think there can be better, yeah, it’s not perfect, but it’s the best we have and it’s obvious to the veteran community. Alpine brought a lot of old players back. That’s good for us all. Whole guilds are re-forming because of the recent changes. Seems like it’s the sneaky pvd back-cap players that enjoyed DBL. Is that the case?
You know what I hate about Alpine? Full inventory and opening all the mountains of bags so often.
Wiggin/LittleEnder/XeroCool/Filthydirtyrotten/MizDemeanor/EnderThaXenocide/ShadowOfWiggin-
Maguuma & A Few alts on other NA/EU servers
The devs would have better luck starting from scratch.
For something that probably took up to 2 years to develop I just find that really sad!
With the changes they have made its makes an interesting and different map to fight in, on rotation. I honestly don’t think you have given it a chance after the changes. To throw it all away and be stuck with the same 4 year old maps for maybe another 2 would just be really sad.
(So true I said it twice!)
I spent plenty of time in it after the last change (because ebg queues were so high I couldn’t get in), the map was slightly less terrible but it still only encouraged zerging.
My total time on the dbl is probably something pretty low like 50ish hours, that isn’t enough time to learn all the best spots to attack each structure but it’s plenty of time to learn all the short cuts around the map. In 1 hour on alpine I found more roaming fights than all my hours on the dbl.
That last sentence has been my experience also. And that says a lot. It’s obvious that Alpine is much more agreeable to WvWers than DBL. Just by reading on probably all WvW forums there are, almost all players who like to fight(what wvw is about)don’t like DBL. Yeah, anyone can find a positive or two about it, but when it comes to producing constant fights, Alpine blows it’s doors off in popularity. I think there can be better, yeah, it’s not perfect, but it’s the best we have and it’s obvious to the veteran community. Alpine brought a lot of old players back. That’s good for us all. Whole guilds are re-forming because of the recent changes. Seems like it’s the sneaky pvd back-cap players that enjoyed DBL. Is that the case?
You know what I hate about Alpine? Full inventory and opening all the mountains of bags so often.
You know what’s worse? Trying to open your bags and being attacked by all these pesky players running around on these maps, stirring up kitten and pulling me into a fun time. kitten you Alpine.
Allow players to choose. Don’t restrict us. Give people all maps as options at all times. People like different maps for different reasons. Keep as many as possible. Normal decay will remove players overtime. Don’t force any out that you don’t have to.
Lol.
We already chose the map. Why do u think old alpine map is back?
Do u actually think anet will replace old map over new designed map without any reason?
I dont even understand why u talk like u are the majority because majority wants the alpine not the desert.
FYI, they always said they would eventually rotate the borders. Popular pressure made them move fast to make this happen. They still say they intend to swap between the two borders (they have hinted it may be a 3 monthly cycle although no one really seems happy with that!).
Allow players to choose. Don’t restrict us. Give people all maps as options at all times. People like different maps for different reasons. Keep as many as possible. Normal decay will remove players overtime. Don’t force any out that you don’t have to.
Lol.
We already chose the map. Why do u think old alpine map is back?
Do u actually think anet will replace old map over new designed map without any reason?
I dont even understand why u talk like u are the majority because majority wants the alpine not the desert.
I am not talking as the majority. I am talking from someone who likes a variety in maps. People came back, and some people left. Don’t have numbers, neither do you unless you are an ANet stats person and if so, please post. I will keep siding on the side of variety. I want ABL/DBL/EBG/EoTM and 6 more maps we potentially might have had by now. Why ANet did what they did, could comment on that but I wasn’t sitting in their meeting so I would be speculating, which doesn’t add to the fact that people were asking for new maps years ago. Do a google search yourself. Glad people got a map back they enjoy, but it also means they un-addressed the original issue. Where are the new maps?
FYI, they always said they would eventually rotate the borders. Popular pressure made them move fast to make this happen. They still say they intend to swap between the two borders (they have hinted it may be a 3 monthly cycle although no one really seems happy with that!).
True this. And agree they rushed this out else we wouldn’t still have the bugs that were in the maps prior to them being taken out of rotation. Unless someone thinks that the open bay WP issue was an intended feature or the the spawn trebs, or the citadel trebs, or…well lets say it was rushed yes?
.