Guild Wars 2

Additionally, asking for one free transfer does nothing except allow players a free token to move to stronger wvw server and makes and even greater disparity in numbers.

Also, why would we need a free transfer with your “select 3 globes this week” model anyway?

Diku.2546:

@Deli

Did you get a chance to read this past post?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Reboot-the-Base-Map-Mechanic-Population/page/2#post5810072

That has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.

@Deli

For some reason…I think you’re misunderstanding the Globe Concept & how it really impacts fighting.

Please Click & Open the below Spoilers…hopefully this explains it better.

Base Map Mechanic & Globe Concept

Deli.1302:

To me, any successful WvW overhaul would need to shift the core focus of WvW from ppt/score to the aspect of WvW the majority of players enjoy the most: the combat. Objectives and siege are just mechanisms to get fights.

How does your proposal achieve this?

Anything else, no matter how good it is, will ultimately fail as ppt/score does not and cannot retain players. The past three years clearly show this. Additionally, Anet needs to fess up and close low pop servers. Server stacking happens because people want to join active servers. And having 24 NA and 27 EU “globes” each with 4 maps (totaling 204 maps) is just going to exacerbate this. Everybody is going to coalesce around less than a dozen “globes” in each region leaving everything else empty.

You are correct about the PPT on its own. Substantial rewards based off of PPT (like event/meta event rewards in HoT) would go a long way I believe.

I’m not a fan of closing lower population servers personally and I don’t think anet is either… They are making a push with play for free and the expansion in an effort to fill up servers. Plus closing and merging servers shows signs of trouble…. Megaservers maps are the sneaky way to hide true population numbers because it gives the illusion all is well and gets more bodies in the same place… Do I believe that anet could close and merge? Yup, absolutely, but will they? No, I don’t think so. That’s why ALL signs point to a megaserver style wvw as tested and implemented through the rest of the game…

I’m not going to go into specifics, but I believe having 4 megaserver maps (bl, bl, bl, eb) with a high population cap per map should be able to do the trick… We could talk about certain thing like lumping 12 NA servers together for one set of megaserver maps and 12 for another set…, but the needlessly overcomplex concept of having all these globes, separate servers, globe picking, globe hopping, globe restrictions… provides ZERO solution to the core things missing like you are mentioning/hinting…

I also think that the eotm timed matches design would be a smart thing to do because it rewards you for your time and effort for that match. So let’s say for example… Mega wvw is broken up into 3 eight hour matches…. Scores are independent and rewards are independent… At the end of the month the devs could compile all the independent red vs blue vs green scores and hand out rewards… Whatever… This style eliminates complaints of night vs day vs night bouncing scores… Rewards for effort right away… Pools more players into one space…

Tournaments could be handled in a similar fashion with longer matches or just better rewards for effort/ppt whatever…

All I know is this… Wvw needs to have more like minded players pooled together in one space because more bodies IS more fun… And to have substantial rewards/reward systems because like you said, PPT can’t and won’t retain players… Nor does “server pride” anymore…

Swagger.1459:

Additionally, asking for one free transfer does nothing except allow players a free token to move to stronger wvw server and makes and even greater disparity in numbers.

Also, why would we need a free transfer with your “select 3 globes this week” model anyway?

Working on posting a reply to this question.

bumpity bump bump. Not like this gets read by any moderator though.

I have provided feedback that opposes and contrasts your ideas. I do not agree with the “globe” concept and certain other elements you are suggesting. Instead of just saying that “I think your ideas are bad” and waking away, I disagree and provide what I believe to be a better solution.

Your “globe” concept will not work to the benefit wvw or address the needs as we speak. You are free to disagree with my comments and have a debate about these interrelated topics or ignore them entirely. I much prefer to have a productive and healthy debate.

Diku.2546:

Snip 8<

You are going to start an all out emotional & over the top argument about which solution is better.

---

•Do not submit “trolling” posts or threads. We define “trolling” as commenting in a manner intended to elicit overly strong negative and emotional responses for mere shock value, attempting to derail threads, persistently posting off-topic, or engaging in personal attacks on another forum member. Accounts made with the sole intent to “troll” will be terminated.

---

You’re trying to provoke the WvW Community that want to discuss Server/Globe based solutions. Please stop your innocent posts that will lead to arguments & derail this topic thread.

No I’m having a civil and mature debate and discussion about this topic. Just because you do not agree with my feedback, does not mean my feedback isn’t relavent.

I’m sorry you don’t agree, but labeling me in any negative way is disingenuous. Debate with me or my feedback, but let’s keep it on all things topic related please.

Edit- additionally, I comment on elements of this topic, to another poster in this thread and provide my feedback. That is having a discussion. I’m opposing your idea with my own simply and that is on topic.

You’re still trying to provoke the WvW Community by attempting to discuss your Megaserver based solution in a Server based solution Topic thread.

I’m opposing your idea which is well within my right and providing contrasting ideas as feedback. I do not agree with you so I show the areas where I do not agree and show you my solutions so you can see them HERE.

So I oppose your “globe” idea.

I show you what would be a better idea.

You look at my idea in comparison you yours.

We discuss things.

That’s GROUP discussion and leaning and sharing.

You see the word megaserver in my post, or a specific word in someone else’s post, then quickly take that word and sort it out to the many many multiple topics you are trying to separate out. It’s important to read the entire feedback from a poster and put it into the context of this thread they are commenting in, and to comments of other posters.

You cannot select a word and assume the entire post doesn’t belong, you take the entire post and analyze it, learn from it and discuss it.

If you happen to find something you don’t agree with, as we all do, that’s well within your right, but the issue is that topics are interrelated…

This is not just “pro globe” only posters can post. This is a discussion topic, just like any topic, that posters can agree, disagree, ignore, comment on, love, hate…

Some of us, myself included, oppose this idea and have been kind enough to prove you reasons why.

You’re still trying to provoke the WvW Community by bringing up 2 concepts in the same thread that have a lot of strong emotional & vocal supporters to both sides.

I’m not interested in your kind feedback that left un-checked will cause this thread to turn people into taking sides on these 2 opposite concepts.

It’s not GROUP discussion and learning and sharing when the discussion breaks down into arguments.

So please be respectful & create your own Topic thread.

Thank you,
Diku

•Do not submit “trolling” posts or threads. We define “trolling” as commenting in a manner intended to elicit overly strong negative and emotional responses for mere shock value, attempting to derail threads, persistently posting off-topic, or engaging in personal attacks on another forum member. Accounts made with the sole intent to “troll” will be terminated.

The only thing I’m provoking is discussions about your topic.

I keep reading through the idea and I can’t really find a solution to support. Wvw needs more players pushed together not apart.

We also need to make a less complex system for the devs to create and the players to use. The sheer coding, juggling and changing is not really feasible. The players also do not want confusing and covoluted either.

Currently the devs have been working on wvw systems for a year, and have all engineers slaving away at keyboards… If you see what the devs have been dropping in game all along, we can already kinda see what direction wvw is going. Theories and ideas are good to share, but we are already a year into the secret wvw project and I’m pretty sure the direction they are coding is completely different than the “globe” idea.

I would support this idea if I could find something that would move us forward, but I see it as more of the same that won’t save wvw at this point. Perhaps this could be a gw3 wvw system, but for gw2 it’s not realistic at this stage.

You’re still trying to provoke the WvW Community by bringing up 2 concepts in the same thread that have a lot of strong emotional & vocal supporters to both sides.

You do not need to support this “globe” idea.

Just post I do not support this “globe” idea & be done with it.

You do need to stop trying to bring up these 2 concepts that will provoke arguments.

Also, steering the discussion away from the original intent of the Topic thread is not respectful either.

Thank you for your feedback, but could we get back to the original intent of this Topic thread of discussion of a Server/Globe based Solution without Megaserver or other off topic discussions?

•Do not submit “trolling” posts or threads. We define “trolling” as commenting in a manner intended to elicit overly strong negative and emotional responses for mere shock value, attempting to derail threads, persistently posting off-topic, or engaging in personal attacks on another forum member. Accounts made with the sole intent to “troll” will be terminated.

An issue I can see forming from this globe idea is that for guilds that aren’t completely coordinated all the time, some people will end up going to a third globe that the majority did not go to, and thus be locked out of playing in the third globe the rest did choose that week. They could have some utterly fantastic fights, and even though the other players are in the same server and guild, they have been left out by limited-choice mechanics.

Sure, people can try to coordinate, but no one can say for sure which globe will have good battles consistently during the week. Especially if people are jumping between three (well, four if you count the home) globes all week.

So how would this idea work in a way that does not tear guilds apart?

It would probably be more useful to use a guild host mechanic, where a guild in a server currently outnumbered in a WvW map can invite a guild (call for help) from another server using something similar to an LFG panel. When the numbers on the map draw close or even, the invite(s) would expire as each player from the invited guild leaves the map.

Edit: I’m not trying to tear apart your massive idea or anything, Diku (you’ve put a lot of work into it); I’m just having trouble seeing how well it would work.

Guild Chat: Hey everybody…next week at Globe reset…make sure you pick Globe X to attack so we can all be on the same attack pattern.

Guild Chat: Oh, don’t forget to tell our friends in Globe Y that we plan to attack Globe X next week at Globe reset…so they can join in too.

Guild Chat: Need to be careful we don’t over do it & game the system. Or, ANet is gonna limit everybody to only being able to visit 1 Globe for the week.

Diku.2546:

Guild Chat: Hey everybody…next week at Globe reset…make sure you pick Globe X to attack so we can all be on the same attack pattern.

Guild Chat: Oh, don’t forget to tell our friends in Globe Y that we plan to attack Globe X next week at Globe reset…so they can join in too.

Guild Chat: Need to be careful we don’t over do it & game the system. Or, ANet is gonna limit everybody to only being able to visit 1 Globe for the week.

This is true (although I’m sure you mean announcement, as chat would be useless in some guilds) – but what happens when every player in GW2 picks the same globe? Endless queues? Or will some guilds be cut in half because 50 got in but 70 were locked out by population limits?

I guess we could do the following:

Map or Team Chat: Hey everybody…next week at Globe reset…make sure you pick Globe X to attack so we can all be on the same attack pattern.

Map or Team Chat: Oh, don’t forget to tell our friends in Globe Y that we plan to attack Globe X next week at Globe reset…so they can join in too.

Map or Team Chat: Need to be careful we don’t over do it & game the system. Or, ANet is gonna limit everybody to only being able to visit 1 Globe for the week.

Players can wait 1 week until the next Globe reset so they can coordinate their attack.

Diku.2546:

I guess we could do the following:

Map Chat: Hey everybody…next week at Globe reset…make sure you pick Globe X to attack so we can all be on the same attack pattern.

Map Chat: Oh, don’t forget to tell our friends in Globe Y that we plan to attack Globe X next week at Globe reset…so they can join in too.

Map Chat: Need to be careful we don’t over do it & game the system. Or, ANet is gonna limit everybody to only being able to visit 1 Globe for the week.

---

Players can wait 1 week until the next Globe reset so they can coordinate their attack.

I’m pointing more at the issue that not everyone is online at the same time. But map-chatting still leaves the issue of numbers in the air. How many servers are all going to claim Globe 1 as their stomping ground next week? It could end up a 6-hour queue…

Or again, if it’s a limited amount of players, people will be separated when half get in and the rest don’t.

@Corrected – Swift

For some reason…I think you’re misunderstanding the Globe Concept.

Please Click & Open the below Spoilers.

If you are still have issues finding the answer about your fear that all servers would pick 1 server to attack. I’ll post the mechanic that is being proposed that should address this concern for you. I’ll be happy to show this to you…as it relates to staying on topic.

Really appreciate you allowing me to expand this concept properly.

Base Map Mechanic & Globe Concept

Diku.2546:

@Swagger

For some reason…I think you’re misunderstanding the Globe Concept.

Please Click & Open the below Spoilers.

If you are still have issues finding the answer about your fear that all servers would pick 1 server to attack. I’ll post the mechanic that is being proposed that should address this concern for you. I’ll be happy to show this to you…as it relates to staying on topic.

Really appreciate you allowing me to expand this concept properly.

---

Base Map Mechanic & Globe Concept

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

---

Base Map Mechanic

Players choose 1 Globe to represent.

Old Servers are Transformed into Globes.

Globes are re-named after their Old World Server’s Name.

Each Globe owns 4 maps in WvW.

Players can enter any Globe from a list of all NA and EU Globes.

Players will have a limit on how many globes they can enter per week.

ANet can change in a single setting how many Globes that ALL players can enter per week to prevent un-fair matches, and to stop players from trying to game the system.

Limit can vary from 1-3 Globes.

Home team is shown in random order the Top 3 Enemies attacking them to help them target who to attack.

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

---

Globe Concept

Currently. When you enter WvW. You enter a World Server based map.

You see 4 Maps.

Server A – Owns Green BL
Server B – Owns Red BL
Server C – Owns Blue BL
Shared – Eternal Battle

---

New Globe. When you enter WvW. You enter a Globe based map.

Globe A
Server A – Owns Green BL
Server A – Owns Red BL
Server A – Owns Blue BL
Shared – Eternal Battle

Globe B
Server B – Owns Green BL
Server B – Owns Red BL
Server B – Owns Blue BL
Shared – Eternal Battle

Globe C
Server C – Owns Green BL
Server C – Owns Red BL
Server C – Owns Blue BL
Shared – Eternal Battle

Globe D – Z
Not going to repeat the above for each Globe

---

Players from Globe A

Can always fight in their Home Globe A

Can fight in Enemy Globes B-Z

Player Picks Globe B & fights there
Player Picks Globe M & fights there
Player Picks Globe Z & fights there

Player Picks Globe C, but can’t enter it because they’ve reached the Globe limit of 3.

Player can only fight in Globe B, M, Z for the week until the Globe limit resets the following week.

ANet can increase or decrease this Weekly number of Globes a player can go to. The range is 1-3 Globes per week.

ANet can prevent un-fair match-ups by doing this.

Players are free to pick & choose to fight in any Globe up to the Weekly Globe Limit.

Players can meet up with friends on a Shared Enemy Globe & be Allies fighting together.

---

Battle is very dynamic. People will not sit in a Globe & wait for attacks.

The Globe based design allows players to pick 1-3 Globes to attack for the week that gets reset weekly.

The Globe based design allows players from 24 NA Globes & 27 EU Globes to move fluidly across all Globes.

The only restriction to being the 1-3 Globe Limit for players. This number that can be adjusted to 1 Globe if necessary by ANet to prevent un-fair matches. Also helps to keep players from gaming the system.

---

The Best Defense requires Better Offense.

Each Home Globe will be shown in Random Order…the Top 3 Globes attacking them.

A typical strategy to stop Enemies from attacking you…is that you attack them.

New Base Map Mechanic allows your Home Globe to team up with friends in other Globes to beat the snot out of the Enemy attacking your Home Globe.

This is where we will get dynamic Match-Ups which the Old Tier based system doesn’t allow.

---

The New Map Mechanic was done this way to promote this cycle.

Globes that want to stop fighting can, but they will drop in Rank.

When they stop fighting…the Enemy Globe attacking them will get a new list for their Top 3 Globes attacking them.

(Um… I think you meant @Swift, and I have checked out your previous posts and the info under spoilers.)

I’m… still not seeing anything limiting how many people from globes A-Z pick globe C as their second globe – and then all trying to join there at the same time. I’m also sensing a further issue that wasn’t so clear before – what happens when all servers pick different globes and no one actually finds each other (or finds good battles in the globes they pick)? A completely empty (or underwhelmingly small) week means smaller population the next week, smaller the next, smaller the next…

I can also sense an opportunity for servers (globes) to gang up on another globe on purpose. Pound it into the ground. Eternally. The current matchups might remain the same for some servers (which is one thing my suggestion I just posted would address), but generally they swap around a bit.

@Swift

Whoops…sorry for the misplaced identity.

Still happy to show you the mechanic.

Players are stuck with their choices for the week, but luckily it resets every week.

So poor choices can be changed. Current Tier System doesn’t allow you to do this.

Nothing will prevent all Globes from picking 1 Globe to attack, but given the mechanic that encourages players to visit 3 Globes…you can be pretty sure…somebody will decide to attack a different Globe to raise their Home Globe’s Rank over the other Globes.

Globes encourages Local & International Communities to form.

Server/Globe identity encourages a Strong Sense of Community & Hard Fought Rivalries imho.

Battle is very dynamic. People will not sit in a Globe & wait for attacks.

The Globe based design allows players to pick 1-3 Globes to attack for the week that gets reset weekly.

The Globe based design allows players from 24 NA Globes & 27 EU Globes to move fluidly across all Globes.

The only restriction to being the 1-3 Globe Limit for players. This number that can be adjusted to 1 Globe if necessary by ANet to prevent un-fair matches. Also helps to keep players from gaming the system.

The Best Defense requires Better Offense.

Each Home Globe will be shown in Random Order…the Top 3 Globes attacking them.

A typical strategy to stop Enemies from attacking you…is that you attack them.

New Base Map Mechanic allows your Home Globe to team up with friends in other Globes to beat the snot out of the Enemy attacking your Home Globe.

This is where we will get dynamic Match-Ups which the Old Tier based system doesn’t allow.

The New Map Mechanic was done this way to promote this cycle.

Globes that want to stop fighting can, but they will drop in Rank.

When they stop fighting…the Enemy Globe attacking them will get a new list for their Top 3 Globes attacking them.

Hmmm… slightly clears it up. As a concept, it certainly bears merit. Couple of questions, though:

Where will globes B-Z spawn when they enter A’s globe? Are they all on the same team against A? (Has the 3-way battle been replaced by a foreigner VS home battle?)

If it’s 2-way, the borderlands have to be different biomes. It’d really suck to have desert BL, desert BL, and desert BL when you’re defending or attacking a globe, since the globe owns them all. If each globe had a single BL and EBG, it’d be a lot like the current WvW setup except that people would pick their matchups (Devona’s Rest VS Jade Quarry FTW!)

I’m not exactly sure how one globe (unless they’ve got powerful allies) could counter, say… ten other globes camping them. Sure, people might be dynamic and go out looking for fights, but there are always groups/guilds who are happy to camp. Attacking is a great defense when you’ve got fairly even numbers to play with. (Example: ten globes send 20 people each to globe A. Globe A is swamped and defeated so tries attacking any/each of these enemy globes. It turns out that, while globe A has 40 people on the offensive, the other ten globes have 30 defenders liberally applying defensive measures/tactics/etc. Globe A has tried its best but has ultimately been bullied down. As a lesson in human nature, this is great – but for game balance and fairness, it may not be so awesome.)

I could see some of these ideas functioning better for a moba style game, but not an mmo.

@Swift

Related Map Mechanics that should help weaker Globes get back into the competition & to enable the Globes below the 3 Top Tier Globes push upwards.

Top Tier should have little reason to attack Low Ranked Globes. Doing so will make them drop in their WvW Ranking as they are tasked with fighting all Globes.

…WvW Home Globe Rank Top 3 & Bottom 3 – Global Theaters of War each maintains a separate list.

…King of Hill Buff – Bottom 3 WvW Ranked Worlds get an automatic buff when attacking any Top 3 WvW Ranked World’s Home Globes. Cross Global Theaters of War attacks also trigger Buff

…Implement a Dynamic Tier Level Buff with Decay Timer named “Tenacious”

A bump because I PM politely asked me to.

That said; when A-Net SPECIFICALLY said that WvW would be their TOP priority post HoT launch – and then it (surprise!) didn’t happen, I’ve given up and quit WvW all-together, and don’t really log in unless an RL friend happens to be playing.

The terrible way they run the company etc… is overwhelming my passion/love for the game and I’ve been searching for another good experience. With the announcement of BD being B2P, it’s peaked my interest, but I honestly might just quit MMORPG’s all together.

a nice list of suggestions but i highly doubt anet will put them to work, as we all know from a reddit theard anet already has plans for a major wvw overhaul and the worst part is, they didnt ask us anything about it

anet will again put their great ideas into the game and it will be terrible, as long as they dont ask us what we want and they think ideas from devs that are cuasuals and play maybe twice a week one hour are good, it will never be good

at the very least they should ask for a list of 10 things the community wants in the maje overhaul and at least implement 5 of them, i know alot of things the community want would break the balance in wvw or the economy, wvw will never be as good as pve farming for gold income, but there are also alot of very good ideas that would drasticly imporve the wvw experience

@Mitzarin & Sekai

Agree & share the same feelings with the both of you.

Thanks for coming on to post your support…even though you feel it’s probably going to be ignored.

Yours truly,
Diku

Swagger.1459 make your own topic and take it there.

Thanks, but I’m talking about this topic and providing relevant feedback to this topic. Really, enough with the personal agenda directed at me and replying to posts I put here into a completely different thread.

Read what I write and put it into context here in this thread. I say something then provide reason why I said that something and provide alternative solutions or commentary.

You all may choose to not reply to my comments, but if you do comment, focus on my post. Not me personally. Stay on topic and put things into better context by simply taking the time to read and understand the messages.

I’ve been nothing but civil and honest with my feedback, enough with the personal “attacking”, quoting of forum rules and assumptions.

Also, I’m not going to say “a nice list of suggestions” just to get diku’s approval. If (s)he wants to post a topic on the community boards (s)he will have to accept all forms of feedback whether it agrees or disagrees.

I do not agree with these suggestions, provided my reasons why, showed better alternatives, and pointed out that it’s too late in the game to change course for the devs JUST LIKE Sekai did… Yet Sekai is thanked and praise just for saying “nice list of suggestions” while I’m singled out as disruptive when I’m mirror many other sentiments by other posters in this thread… That’s disengenuous and also not contributing to the civil discussion and topic at hand.

There is nothing about this idea that bears merit the more I read, and that’s well within my right to comment on. At least I’m providing feedback, not just saying “-1 bad idea” without any reasons why.

Not to muddy the thread more, but is it your idea OP to have people read, and say yes/no support? Or, are you asking for feedback, discussion, then rolling responses up?

I don’t see anything Swagger is doing as wrong by discussing some of your finer points. Not everyone is going to know, or remember, the various threads or sub threads.

Swagger.1459:

Thanks, but I’m talking about this topic and providing relevant feedback to this topic. Really, enough with the personal agenda directed at me and replying to posts I put here into a completely different thread.

Read what I write and put it into context here in this thread. I say something then provide reason why I said that something and provide alternative solutions or commentary.

You all may choose to not reply to my comments, but if you do comment, focus on my post. Not me personally. Stay on topic and put things into better context by simply taking the time to read and understand the messages.

I’ve been nothing but civil and honest with my feedback, enough with the personal “attacking”, quoting of forum rules and assumptions.

Also, I’m not going to say “a nice list of suggestions” just to get diku’s approval. If (s)he wants to post a topic on the community boards (s)he will have to accept all forms of feedback whether it agrees or disagrees.

I do not agree with these suggestions, provided my reasons why, showed better alternatives, and pointed out that it’s too late in the game to change course for the devs JUST LIKE Sekai did… Yet Sekai is thanked and praise just for saying “nice list of suggestions” while I’m singled out as disruptive when I’m mirror many other sentiments by other posters in this thread… That’s disengenuous and also not contributing to the civil discussion and topic at hand.

There is nothing about this idea that bears merit the more I read, and that’s well within my right to comment on. At least I’m providing feedback, not just saying “-1 bad idea” without any reasons why.

@Crapgame

Swagger.1459 will start with finer points, but eventually will lead the discussion to why a Megaserver solution is better. Then people will take sides…then the whole thread will turn into an argument.

Also, actively trying to steer the Topic thread into a confrontation with innocent comments from other contributors on this specific Topic thread meant to discuss a Server based solution for WvW.

@Bubi

Sorry to post this, but I know how you feel. Swagger’s discussion about Megaserver solution can be extremely provoking.

Also, to the supporters of Megaserver solution…you probably feel the same about what anything said about your solution.

We really need to keep discussions about Megaserver based & Server based solutions apart because it’s so highly emotionally charged & polar opposites

Swagger.1459 imho appears to be attempting to foment arguments & chaos based on most of the postings being done in this specific Topic thread. Take a look at Swagger’s postings below & decide for yourself:

Here’s an example that starts out innocently.

Below quote was taken from current Topic thread.

Bubi.5237:

Swagger.1459:

I do not agree with your over complex idea that segregates the slimming wvw community anymore than it currently is.

By skimming through, you are asking the devs to replace one segregated wvw for another segregated wvw.

Pve is megaserver for reasons.

Spvp is megaserver for reasons.

Eotm is megaserver for reasons.

Wvw should be megaserver for many reasons, not segregated and restricted globe servers.

I read it as:
“Pve is quaggan for reasons.

Spvp is quaggan for reasons.

Eotm is quaggan for reasons.

Wvw should be quaggan for many reasons."

Nope, I don’t like Pve, sPvP or EotM and don’t want wvw to be anything similar to them.

Below quote was taken from current Topic thread.

Swagger.1459:

Unfortunatly diku’s globe segregation ideas are not the right answer at all. We already see the effect of so much spreading of the population. eotm is a test bed as well, and a successful one at that for participation. “Globes” with weekly restrictions do nothing except exaserbate the current problems with population differences.

Below quote was taken from current Topic thread.

Swagger.1459:

I’m opposing your idea which is well within my right and providing contrasting ideas as feedback. I do not agree with you so I show the areas where I do not agree and show you my solutions so you can see them HERE.

So I oppose your “globe” idea.

I show you what would be a better idea.

You look at my idea in comparison you yours.

We discuss things.

That’s GROUP discussion and leaning and sharing.

You see the word megaserver in my post, or a specific word in someone else’s post, then quickly take that word and sort it out to the many many multiple topics you are trying to separate out. It’s important to read the entire feedback from a poster and put it into the context of this thread they are commenting in, and to comments of other posters.

You cannot select a word and assume the entire post doesn’t belong, you take the entire post and analyze it, learn from it and discuss it.

If you happen to find something you don’t agree with, as we all do, that’s well within your right, but the issue is that topics are interrelated…

This is not just “pro globe” only posters can post. This is a discussion topic, just like any topic, that posters can agree, disagree, ignore, comment on, love, hate…

Some of us, myself included, oppose this idea and have been kind enough to prove you reasons why.

Below quote was taken from current Topic thread.

Swagger.1459:

The globe idea does nothing but spread players out needlessly and is restrictive… We already have population problems…

This is more of what you need…

Megaserver wvw red vs blue vs green (like eotm).

Wvw objective based gameplay.

Timed PPT matches (like eotm) and rewards for that match based off of rank.

Bimonthly tournament (longer) PPT matches for greater rewards than regular play.

Badges of honor to buy ascended runes and sigils.

“Something of honor” match currency used to buy unique looking wvw legendary armor.

Legendary rune and sigil crafting mastery tracks.

Cool stuff for guilds.

Leaderboards only serve to promote transfers, we don’t need them. Rewards are fine enough.

Enjoy!

Edit- they will throw in all sorts of silly maps, but players will have to live with it at this point while they chase there special ascended and legendary rewards…

Edit 2- the way you format your posts is a bit much. Update the topic if need be and make replies more approachable to read. Address players by quoting them directly. Don’t add in all that additional stuff. Address who you need to address basically please.

I know you put a lot of work into it, but your formatting makes me not want to devote time to deciphering it or trying to put replies into context for proper GROUP discussion.

Good luck!

Below quote was taken from current Topic thread.

Swagger.1459:

Bishop.5938:

Some great ideas in here. I wonder if we will see anything like this. 1 thing though is why would you separate in time zones when each team would be looking for 24/7 coverage?

I’m almost certain the devs will not implement an idea like this. They are already a YEAR into behind the scenes wvw stuff and Colin said that all engineers are working on THE project. There is no changing course.

There are too many flaws with the “globe” idea. Too many globes to choose from. Weekly restrictions to what globes you have access too. Too much spreading.

I mean IF gw2 had wvw population numbers in the millions, then you could probably do a massive scale “global theater of war” idea like this, but there are way too many “slim pickings” in population across the game to do that.

This idea is more of an moba fit than anything really. Could it be made to work IF that’s what was implemented from the very beginning for gw2 wvw? Maybe, but that’s a really big maybe…

Below quote was taken from current Topic thread.

Swagger.1459:

Deli.1302:

Diku.2546:

@Deli

For some reason…I think you’re misunderstanding the Globe Concept & how it really impacts fighting.

I understood it just fine thanks. All I see is the exact same thing we have now, with an overemphasis on ppt and coverage and multiplying the number of maps by four (which would indefinitely lead to most maps being emptier than they are now), instead of facing the reality that most players play for the fights and could care less about the score.

If your answer to it is to allow switching between “globes” (I’m assuming the intent is for more variety?) then it won’t work because EU has plenty of variety right now.

I’m pretty sure most of us do understand too, Diku.

I fully agree with your post Deli, nothing more than the same old same old stuff that keeps everything the same old unfortunately.

And yes, players are there for the fights like you said, not to count ppt just for the sake of ppt… Does there need to be some type of scoring? We all agree yes, but players want to bash on other players and get some loot bags for it ultimately. Not just stand in empty zones beating up a door for meaningless numbers and rewards not worth mentioning…

Below quote was taken from current Topic thread.

Swagger.1459:

Samhayn.2385:

At this point I feel like the could close EoTM and just have people be mercenaries on other realms not in you own tier.

Or randomly asign guild/players a color every week.

Since server is sorta just a name at the point you could set up 9 wvw “servers” when you reach the level to go into wvw you pick one of these servers and that who you fight for moving between servers can be done free but is limited to once a month and only out of the wvw season. This still gives the sense your fighting for a team well condensing the wvw population thus increasing the amount of people per map. This can also be monitored to make sure servers don’t get over stacked because you can always close it to incoming transfers.

All I know is something needs to be done to get more people per map because even on tier 3 na I have run around for over an hour with out seeing the enemy.

Close eotm??? You mean the place where people are actually playing and that doesn’t have population issues? The place where obviously players are having fun? That place should be closed? Really? For real? Is this “real life”?

If anything, they should shut down all BLs at this point instead… Just keep EB for y’all…

@Swagger

I agree you will always be civil. You have to understand…I am not attacking you personally. I am informing you that what you are doing will provoke many in this WvW Community that feel strongly about Server Pride with your attempt to discuss a Megaserver solution.

You are welcome to contribute to this Topic if you offer to help refine its elements.

You are not welcome to contribute to this Topic if you continue to post your Megaserver Concept to hijack this Topic Thread.

My view is that you are seriously attempting to derail this Topic thread by posting your Megaserver Concept that leads to highly emotional & very vocal responses.

Your innocent & civil discussion about Megaserver in a thread that is focused about a Server based solution will lead to arguments if left un-checked.

Megaserver based concepts and Server based concepts are exact polar opposites. To discuss these topics together will require a professional abritrater which I am not.

You’re still trying to provoke the WvW Community by bringing up 2 concepts in the same thread that have a lot of strong emotional & vocal supporters to both sides.

You do not need to support this “globe” idea.

Just post I do not support this “globe” idea & be done with it.

You do need to stop trying to bring up these 2 concepts that will provoke arguments.

Also, steering the discussion away from the original intent of the Topic thread is not respectful either.

Thank you for your feedback, but could we get back to the original intent of this Topic thread of discussion of a Server/Globe based Solution without Megaserver or other off topic discussions?

I do not appreciate your attempts at posting Megaserver Concepts in a Topic thread that’s trying to discuss a Server based concept solution.

You’re welcome to join this Topic thread, but stop pretending that encouraging a discussion about Megaserver Concepts in this specific Topic thread will not lead to highly emotional & very vocal responses.

•Do not submit “trolling” posts or threads. We define “trolling” as commenting in a manner intended to elicit overly strong negative and emotional responses for mere shock value, attempting to derail threads, persistently posting off-topic, or engaging in personal attacks on another forum member. Accounts made with the sole intent to “troll” will be terminated.

Yeah I agree, need to bring back the old maps. New maps are pretty and all, but they’re just not practical for WvW. Way too big for the population the game mode still has.

Josh XT.6053:

Yeah I agree, need to bring back the old maps. New maps are pretty and all, but they’re just not practical for WvW. Way too big for the population the game mode still has.

I would love to have the old maps back now until the big wvw update.

The devs have mentioned the old bls will come back so I’m assuming there will be some type of rotation. I’m sure they have a snow map in the works too… Maybe some new versions of EB… Guess we will have to see.

Some great ideas in here. I wonder if we will see anything like this. 1 thing though is why would you separate in time zones when each team would be looking for 24/7 coverage?

Bishop.5938:

Some great ideas in here. I wonder if we will see anything like this. 1 thing though is why would you separate in time zones when each team would be looking for 24/7 coverage?

I’m almost certain the devs will not implement an idea like this. They are already a YEAR into behind the scenes wvw stuff and Colin said that all engineers are working on THE project. There is no changing course.

There are too many flaws with the “globe” idea. Too many globes to choose from. Weekly restrictions to what globes you have access too. Too much spreading.

I mean IF gw2 had wvw population numbers in the millions, then you could probably do a massive scale “global theater of war” idea like this, but there are way too many “slim pickings” in population across the game to do that.

This idea is more of an moba fit than anything really. Could it be made to work IF that’s what was implemented from the very beginning for gw2 wvw? Maybe, but that’s a really big maybe…

Very interesting OP. I can see you put a lot of work into the idea.

Obviously a lot of work put into this, but after taking a careful look at all the details, I’m not sure it’s clear how this new system would prevent the current issues from continuing, or not cause new problems to arise.

I’d like to hear how specifically this would be preferable or better – what issues are being addressed and how exactly is it believed that will occur. For example, the system does not seem to prevent in any way the problem of overcrowding, nor that of under-populated ‘battle spaces’.

Still a little concerned that this kind of setup could encourage bullying – such as mid-tiers who are having trouble with their own maps going and camping all low-tier servers. However, it could work if using mercenary suggestion I mentioned (cheers Diku for +1 on that thread and hinting that they could work together in the first place).

This is one epic WvW modification. Yet, do you think Anet will take the time to do so?

@Anthrage

Based on your feedback…I added the following New to the Proposal:

…Per Cap – Objectives need to be claimed to earn Flip Points

…Per Cap – Objective Flip Points earned scale in relation to a Guild’s Home Globe WvW Rank. More points are earned if Globe is Higher Rank. Less points earned if Globe is Lower Rank

You can see where the need for this addition came about.

Thank you,
Diku

Overcrowding aka severe server stacking is caused when players from all Time Zones decide to stack on 1 Globe.

The proposed New Base Map Mechanic will not prevent players from doing this.

The Time Zone & Language mechanic being introduced only Labels Globes for players to use as a reference point when picking a Home Globe.

It is likely that players will ignore these Label mechanics & still continue to do severe server stacking.

ANet will then be forced to adjust the Weekly Globe Limit to 1 Globe. All players would only be able to visit 1 Globe per week

The Globe a player picks would be the only Globe they can attack for the whole week. Players can only change the Globe they attack at the next Weekly Globe Reset.

If ANet has to enforce a Weekly Globe Limit of 1 Globe.

Severely stacked Globes will be exposed to attack from All Globes, but their armies would be forced to divide itself in retaliation attacks along multiple Globe fronts.

Bottom 3 Ranked Globes actually always get an Automatic Buff for attacking any Top 3 Globes.

Top 3 Ranked Globes really don’t benefit from attacking the Bottom 3 Ranked Globes.

*Just realized need to adjust the Per Cap points earned when Objectives flip.

…Per Cap – Objectives captured earn points at flip. Higher points are earned based on the Objective’s Upgrade Tier when flipped. Extremely low points awarded for objectives that have zero upgrades.

…Per Cap – Objectives need to be claimed to earn Flip Points

…Per Cap – Objective Flip Points earned scale in relation to a Guild’s Home Globe WvW Rank. More points are earned if Globe is Higher Rank. Less points earned if Globe is Lower Rank

Globes that properly use the Time Zone & Language Labels over the long term will form communities that perform their best based on their Local Time Zone.

Strong Local Globe communities can then branch out to an International Globe to team up to fight against a Super stacked Globe that tries to maintain All Time Zones as its population base.

New players starting WvW will be shown Time Zone & Language Labels when choosing a Globe to call Home.

Recruiting for Globes is left to this process. Super stacked Globes will need to actively recruit new players from All Time Zones.

Swift.1930:

With all the WvW updates and suggestions being tossed left and right, I came up with another idea. Care to hear it? Of course you do. =P

I think it would be really neat if a guild host mechanic was implemented, where a guild in a server currently outnumbered in a WvW map could invite a guild (call for help) from another server using something similar to an LFG panel. When the numbers on the map draw close or even, the invite(s) would come down from the invite panel and would expire for each player from the invited guild when he/she leaves the map.

This would encourage even numbers, encourage servers limited during certain times/days, and give everyone a fair chance at some fun co-op gameplay.

As a balance, if the server that sent the invites outnumbers either of the other servers, a 15-min timer could appear on invited guilds’ members’ screens (one guild at a time, depending on how outnumbered the other servers are) to help keep an even playing field. At the end of the timer, they’re moved back to their own server’s map.

Something like a mercenary idea.

Thoughts?

If this proposal suddenly gets a huge approval rating…I’d like to consider adding your idea if there really is a need for this feature & it doesn’t impact performance or bother players.

Yours truly,
Diku

@PrinceKhaled

Doesn’t hurt to try & offer a solution that has the support of WvW players.

This proposal isn’t to the liking of ALL WvW Players, but at least it’s here for ANet to consider.

Yours truly,
Diku

Bishop.5938:

Some great ideas in here. I wonder if we will see anything like this. 1 thing though is why would you separate in time zones when each team would be looking for 24/7 coverage?

Time Zone & Language mechanic being proposed are really labels.

They serve only as a reference point for players to use when trying to figure out what the population of a Home Globe should be.

@Bishop

Players tend to follow Commanders/Guilds in WvW.

Each Commander or Guild typically performs best according to their Time Zone.

Players from different Time Zones should be encouraged to rejoin their Server buddies on whatever Home Globe that gets chosen by their Commander/Guild.

Players that pick a Home Globe that’s in a different Time Zone now have the opportunity with this new base map mechanic to team-up with their Commander/Guild by visiting a Shared Enemy Globe to fight together against a common foe.

The Theater of Wars allows International Pride between Home Globes to develop while nurturing a Globe Community that is local to a specific Time Zone.

All Home Globes through an Annual WvW Voting Event can later change their chosen Global Theater of War to match the needs of the majority.

Server Pride is preserved & International Pride is given a chance to take root & expand as our Old Home Servers are transformed into Home Globes.

WvW runs around the clock…it’s 24/7…

Just to be clear…this Global Theater of Wars mechanic:

Does not in any way prevent a player from picking any Home Globe to join.

Does not in any way prevent a player from fighting for their Home Globe any day or time they choose.

What it does do is let players know ahead of time…that the typical player for that Home Globe has voted & approved that they want to be associated to a particular Time Zone.

This allows players to know ahead of time…that they will be playing with other players that share the same day & night hours.

You as a player can pick & join any Home Globe you want to…there is no restriction.

The Theater of War mechanic helps in the Long Term because it allows WvW Communities to gather & play at the same day & night hours.

As an example…I think when a husband and wife wake & sleep at the same time…they share more of their lives together…

Night hours for your Home Globe in the proposed New Map Mechanic could be covered by Alliances with other Globes from different Time Zones.

Globes that attack you during your “night” period could be handled by a retaliation strike against the attacking Globe from your Allied partner Globe that’s in a different Time Zone.

I got your back bro…anybody messes with you…gonna get slammed by me.

That’s the concept here.

Also, WvW Guilds do not need to recruit in the LA Map channel hoping to find similar players to join thier Home Globe anymore.

Long Term recruiting for your Globe should be easier as the system will naturally attract players from your Time Zone to join your Globe.

Diku.2546:

@Deli

For some reason…I think you’re misunderstanding the Globe Concept & how it really impacts fighting.

I understood it just fine thanks. All I see is the exact same thing we have now, with an overemphasis on ppt and coverage and multiplying the number of maps by four (which would indefinitely lead to most maps being emptier than they are now), instead of facing the reality that most players play for the fights and could care less about the score.

If your answer to it is to allow switching between “globes” (I’m assuming the intent is for more variety?) then it won’t work because EU has plenty of variety right now.

Deli.1302:

Diku.2546:

@Deli

For some reason…I think you’re misunderstanding the Globe Concept & how it really impacts fighting.

I understood it just fine thanks. All I see is the exact same thing we have now, with an overemphasis on ppt and coverage and multiplying the number of maps by four (which would indefinitely lead to most maps being emptier than they are now), instead of facing the reality that most players play for the fights and could care less about the score.

If your answer to it is to allow switching between “globes” (I’m assuming the intent is for more variety?) then it won’t work because EU has plenty of variety right now.

I’m pretty sure most of us do understand too, Diku.

I fully agree with your post Deli, nothing more than the same old same old stuff that keeps everything the same old unfortunately.

And yes, players are there for the fights like you said, not to count ppt just for the sake of ppt… Does there need to be some type of scoring? We all agree yes, but players want to bash on other players and get some loot bags for it ultimately. Not just stand in empty zones beating up a door for meaningless numbers and rewards not worth mentioning…

Originally posted here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Reboot-the-Base-Map-Mechanic-Population/first#post5715808

@Deli & Swagger

Hope this explains the proposal better.

There really is a huge difference between Current & Proposed Base Map Mechanics imho.

See for yourself…on what I mean below.

Given the following choices…Would you prefer to:

A) Fight against 2 Worlds that the System Picks for you at the beginning of every week.

Or

B) Fight against 1-3 Worlds that you choose at the beginning of every week from a choice of 24 NA and 27 EU Home Globes.

Option A = Current Map Mechanic
Option B = Proposed New Map Mechanic & Global Theaters of War

The only restriction to being the 1-3 Globe Limit for players. This number that can be adjusted to 1 Globe if necessary by ANet to prevent un-fair matches. Also helps to keep players from gaming the system.

Given the following choices…Would you prefer to:

A) Recruit players from your Time Zone to join your Home World by shouting in LA Map Channel.

Or

B) Naturally let players choose your Home Globe based on its designated Theater of War that Annually gets voted on by your entire WvW Globe’s Population.

Option A = Current Map Mechanic
Option B = Proposed New Map Mechanic & Global Theaters of War

The proposed New Map Mechanic & Global Theaters of War will let you play with friends & family.

If you’re in a different Home Globe away from your friends & family…then just pick an Enemy Globe that you both can meet on then team-up & fight together there.

Time Zone mechanic used in Global Theaters of War is only used as a Label Reference point. Time Zone does not in any way restrict players from doing anything in WvW.

Time Zone & Language mechanics being proposed are used only as Label Reference points in helping to guide all Global Communities in the Long Term in forming & recruiting players that share the same Time Zone & Languages.

Borderland Maps – Mix, Swap, or REDUCE

Since players first appear in 1 of 3 Colored corners of the Eternal Battle Map in WvW with this proposal.

It’s interesting to see that mixing, swapping, or reducing the number of Borderland maps used is really possible, but I’m not sure if it’s feasible from a programming standpoint.

Portals & Spawn Points

…Players entering WvW from PvE or PvP start in the Red Corner of Eternal Battle for Home Globe. WvW map Portals grant access to 4 Destinations

…1) Lions Arch
…2) Red corner of Eternal Battle for Home Globe
…3) Green corner of Eternal Battle Map of Any World Globe
…4) Blue corner of Eternal Battle Map of Any World Globe

…Choosing the Green or Blue Portal will now prompt players to pick from a list of All World Globes on Weekly Reset.

…Choosing the Green or Blue Portal will give players a customized list based on their Weekly choices & ANet’s enforced Guesting limit after Weekly Reset.

…Map travel using the (M)ap shortcut key allows simple travel to spawn points within a chosen World Globe.

@Swagger

As far as PPT goes…I actually agree that PPT just for the sake of PPT.

…Weekly PPT Cap

World Globe Rank & Scoring

Current
…Per Tick – Every 15 minutes – Points Earned
…Per Kill – At Death – Points Earned
…Blood Lust Buff (with HoT release) – Removal Pending

Not Implemented but being proposed

…Per Cap – Objectives captured earn points at flip. Higher points are earned based on the Objective’s Upgrade Tier when flipped. Extremely low points awarded for objectives that have zero upgrades

…Per Cap – Objectives need to be claimed to earn Flip Points

…Per Cap – Objective Flip Points earned scale in relation to a Guild’s Home Globe WvW Rank. More points are earned if Globe is Higher Rank. Less points earned if Globe is Lower Rank

…Weekly PPT Cap of 25,000 – 100,000 Points for each Globe. ANet to adjust value to keep runaway scores from happening

…WvW Home Globe Rank based on Weekly Weighted Statistics in Parent Thread.

…WvW Home Globe Rank Top 3 & Bottom 3 – Global Theaters of War each maintains a separate list.

@Deli & Swagger

The Best Defense requires Better Offense.

Each Home Globe will be shown in Random Order…the Top 3 Globes attacking them.

A typical strategy to stop Enemies from attacking you…is that you attack them.

New Base Map Mechanic allows your Home Globe to team up with friends in other Globes to beat the snot out of the Enemy attacking your Home Globe.

The Globe based design allows players from 24 NA Globes & 27 EU Globes to move fluidly across all Globes.

The only restriction to being the 1-3 Globe Limit for players. This number that can be adjusted to 1 Globe if necessary by ANet to prevent un-fair matches. Also helps to keep players from gaming the system.

This is where we will get dynamic Match-Ups which the Old Tier based system doesn’t allow.

Time Zone mechanic used in Global Theaters of War is only used as a Label Reference point. Time Zone does not in any way restrict players from doing anything in WvW.

It’s NOT the same old same old stuff that keeps everything the same old unfortunately.

Really appreciate your feedback that allows me to explain the details to you.