Guild Wars 2

NO NO NO NO TO THE STAT BONUS

I think points on stomp should be enough imo…

DrWhom.3105:

Well, I wasn’t saying the buff should be all those things instead of stats, just that they were more interesting alternatives. I didn’t specify any percentages or specifics, they were just suggestions I’d seen posted elsewhere that sounded better to me. Yes 150% faster yaks would be crazy but 33% would only really be equivalent to having one person giving each yak swiftness. And there would still be reason to hold the buffs after a particular BL is upgraded, as you’d still have the points for stomps part of the mechanic (which is a decent idea). Plus remember the effect is not limited to the current map, so holding 3/5 on home BL would still be worthwhile to help you upgrade other maps.

While, yes, all of them would be absurd (that was largely just to paint the point). Even any one of them is also over the top when you consider the fact that this sort of buff cannot be undone. If I neutralize the central nodes, I do not undo that yaks have delivered 33% more supply than mine, for example, or 25% faster upgrades. That is done and done, and the server losing the buff has only lost efficiency. (33% faster yaks is actually rather strong, especially if they are then further sped up with swiftness. This is the problem, no buff will ever be “fair” unless it does absolutely nothing of relevance. If you make it too weak vs. effort, then its just meaningless for everyone in its entirety. It is supposed to be strong to be threatening but to have it affect core mechanics like supply lines (which can not be reversed when the buff is lost: delivered supply is delivered supply) is far stronger than 150+ stats.)

Neutralizing a stat buff, neutralizes it wholesale. There is no “stocked up” stats. (Moreover, in this case, neutralizing the buff means taking the buff for yourself, means that you become more threatening immediately if the buff is lost. I cannot take the supply already delivered by the yaks or undo the massive upgrades done in less time because of the buff.)

DrWhom.3105:

Also I disagree that siege/upgrading/capture points are the core of WvW. To me PvP, fighting other players, is the core of WvW and the rest are mechanical elements added to enhance it, because a simple kiling field with no objectives wouldn’t be as complex or fun in the long term. After all you might play WvW with the structures, siege and capture points removed for a little while before getting bored, but I can’t see anyone playing the upgrading, yak escorting and siege building metagame at all if there weren’t other players there trying to kill you.

I’m pretty sure the very win condition of WvW would disagree with you. Siege, upgrading, and capture points are the core mechanics of WvW by definition of how WvW decides who wins. PvP is a means to that end and it is a mechanic therein.

Map politics, resource management, PvP, etc, these are all elements of WvW that decide who wins but the core lies in PPT because that is the ultimate deciding factor.

DrWhom.3105:

Honestly I’d rather the buff were entirely reward orientated, which wouldn’t step on either side’s toes. +50% XP, MF, WXP. Maybe to make the buff more meaningful, you get twice or three times as many points for stomps. I don’t think that’s enough of a “gamechanger” for Anet though, which is why I made those other suggestions.

But then its irrelevant and doesn’t do anything.

I’d bet my bottom dollar that the whole point of making it “stats” and a “game changer” is to force people to care about it. The same way no one cares about Outmanned now, is the same way no one will care about Bloodlust if all it did was give you PvE rewards.

Yes, actually.

I think there’s a pretty good chance that it will be very difficult for large zergs to maintain the buffs for their server. At least not without neglecting defense/offense in other locations. This isn’t single objective in an open area that can be steamrolled. The terrain around all those central points is very conducive to small groups and solo fighting. Too many height differences and obstacles to duck behind.

I don’t think the stat buffs are by any means necessary, but I don’t think they’ll be detrimental either. They’re going to be changing hands too often for a snowball effect to take place.

Vena.8436:

DrWhom.3105:

Honestly I’d rather the buff were entirely reward orientated, which wouldn’t step on either side’s toes. +50% XP, MF, WXP. Maybe to make the buff more meaningful, you get twice or three times as many points for stomps. I don’t think that’s enough of a “gamechanger” for Anet though, which is why I made those other suggestions.

But then its irrelevant and doesn’t do anything.

I’d bet my bottom dollar that the whole point of making it “stats” and a “game changer” is to force people to care about it. The same way no one cares about Outmanned now, is the same way no one will care about Bloodlust if all it did was give you PvE rewards.

But that’s the opposite of what it should be. Why reward the stronger team with MORE power? Already tried with orbs, already failed. You just get one team that snowballs which is boring for everyone all around.

So switch the new bloodlust buff with the current outmanned. The outmanned team gets a small stat boost to help balance the combat, the dominant team gets greater rewards.

No I don’t think it’s a good idea, good and fair fights are already too hard to find these days.

No. Stat buffs are unwanted by anyone who actually wants to test their mettle in large scale open field fights, and unneeded as it’ll only wreck server morale even more making the blowout matches in the upcoming leagues even more pointless.

Vena.8436:

If I neutralize the central nodes, I do not undo that yaks have delivered 33% more supply than mine, for example, or 25% faster upgrades. That is done and done, and the server losing the buff has only lost efficiency.

You can undo the extra supply or upgrades though, by taking the structure and resetting it. There’s also more opportunity for counterplay if the enemy commits people to holding the buff, as if they hold those you can threaten the supply lines to nullify the benefit. Also with +stats fights won (that would have otherwise been lost without it) and the structures that change hands as a result won’t be undone by removing that buff, they just lose efficiency in future fights. So the planned implementation has the same problem, from a PPT-focused perspective.

I’m pretty sure the very win condition of WvW would disagree with you. Siege, upgrading, and capture points are the core mechanics of WvW by definition of how WvW decides who wins. PvP is a means to that end and it is a mechanic therein.

I guess it’s a matter of opinion then. If winning is your primary reason for playing, then you’d consider the win condition all important. That doesn’t make much sense to me in a 24 hour uneven numbers format though, since whether kills or point holding decides the final result the determining factor would still be coverage. None of the changes I suggested would alter the results of any matches, nor will the planned Bloodlust with +stats. Almost every match is decided before it begins. I play because the combat is fun, and this change will make it less so by virtue of more uneven fights and a general boost in effectiveness for servers who were already dominating.

But then its irrelevant and doesn’t do anything.

Then increase the number of points rewarded for a stomp with Bloodlust to the point at which it does do something and is relevant. But then I only suggest that because I don’t care about the final score, so I imagine you’d have a problem with that too. I don’t really care whether the points do something or not, they could be worth nothing and I’d still go there because it looks like a fun place to have a fight. Or just make them each worth 5 PPT, in addition to the current 1/2/3 points per stomp and some amount of + gold/xp/wxp for 3/5. Anything but stats.

Absolutely not. No buff plz.

Yes. I think it will encourage smaller group play. Sure you can zerg through all the points, but it only takes a short time to neutralize it. Roamers can easily back cap the zerg. It also leaves the zerg with a dilemma: secure at least 3 points and leave their keeps vulnerable, or focus on keeps and give the smaller server a stat boost.

Hell no!

“Message Body length must at least be 15.”
“But…but…I lost my ID!”

Zephyrus.9680:

Vena.8436:

DrWhom.3105:

Honestly I’d rather the buff were entirely reward orientated, which wouldn’t step on either side’s toes. +50% XP, MF, WXP. Maybe to make the buff more meaningful, you get twice or three times as many points for stomps. I don’t think that’s enough of a “gamechanger” for Anet though, which is why I made those other suggestions.

But then its irrelevant and doesn’t do anything.

I’d bet my bottom dollar that the whole point of making it “stats” and a “game changer” is to force people to care about it. The same way no one cares about Outmanned now, is the same way no one will care about Bloodlust if all it did was give you PvE rewards.

But that’s the opposite of what it should be. Why reward the stronger team with MORE power? Already tried with orbs, already failed. You just get one team that snowballs which is boring for everyone all around.

So switch the new bloodlust buff with the current outmanned. The outmanned team gets a small stat boost to help balance the combat, the dominant team gets greater rewards.

And who would waste their time getting a minor MF bonus when they could be getting towers? Southsun already showed us that not even +300% MF makes a noticeable difference. If no one would care about the points, there’d be no grand open battles trying to get them, no new tactics, just the same old WvW with the odd roamers grabbing them because they happen to be in the area.
The beauty of these control points is small groups can aid their servers in ways they never could before. They can be more places then a blob can and play keep away with the blob rather easily. This’d make commanders have to think. They’d have to become more coordinated and split up. If a server has a good set of coordinated strategists and disciplined fighters, they’d be able to perform some really interesting plays. All they need is good communication and incentive. Idealy then, WvW would evolve into a game that weighs strategy, discipline, communication and coordination over simple brute force tactics.

No stats bonus /15char

Although it is slightly off topic 300% magic find certainly makes a difference, running around in crown pavilion with the 200% buff and birthday booster was lodestone city. I play all parts of the game so I have no complaints about WvW getting less loot but if the blood lust boost gave something like 50% for each borderland the increased amounts of rares and even exotics being dropped would satisfy the kind of people who like to zerg around. The only people increased MF and karma doesn’t really benefit are the smaller groups and solos who don’t want the proposed stat buff anyways so I am sure they wouldn’t care if it was useless magic find and karma.

Basket of Boxes.1976:

Although it is slightly off topic 300% magic find certainly makes a difference, running around in crown pavilion with the 200% buff and birthday booster was lodestone city. I play all parts of the game so I have no complaints about WvW getting less loot but if the blood lust boost gave something like 50% for each borderland the increased amounts of rares and even exotics being dropped would satisfy the kind of people who like to zerg around. The only people increased MF and karma doesn’t really benefit are the smaller groups and solos who don’t want the proposed stat buff anyways so I am sure they wouldn’t care if it was useless magic find and karma.

So that still leaves the issue, MF isn’t worth fighting over to most players.

Dual.8953:

Zephyrus.9680:

Vena.8436:

DrWhom.3105:

Honestly I’d rather the buff were entirely reward orientated, which wouldn’t step on either side’s toes. +50% XP, MF, WXP. Maybe to make the buff more meaningful, you get twice or three times as many points for stomps. I don’t think that’s enough of a “gamechanger” for Anet though, which is why I made those other suggestions.

But then its irrelevant and doesn’t do anything.

I’d bet my bottom dollar that the whole point of making it “stats” and a “game changer” is to force people to care about it. The same way no one cares about Outmanned now, is the same way no one will care about Bloodlust if all it did was give you PvE rewards.

But that’s the opposite of what it should be. Why reward the stronger team with MORE power? Already tried with orbs, already failed. You just get one team that snowballs which is boring for everyone all around.

So switch the new bloodlust buff with the current outmanned. The outmanned team gets a small stat boost to help balance the combat, the dominant team gets greater rewards.

And who would waste their time getting a minor MF bonus when they could be getting towers? Southsun already showed us that not even +300% MF makes a noticeable difference. If no one would care about the points, there’d be no grand open battles trying to get them, no new tactics, just the same old WvW with the odd roamers grabbing them because they happen to be in the area.
The beauty of these control points is small groups can aid their servers in ways they never could before. They can be more places then a blob can and play keep away with the blob rather easily. This’d make commanders have to think. They’d have to become more coordinated and split up. If a server has a good set of coordinated strategists and disciplined fighters, they’d be able to perform some really interesting plays. All they need is good communication and incentive. Idealy then, WvW would evolve into a game that weighs strategy, discipline, communication and coordination over simple brute force tactics.

That doesn’t address the issue we already saw with orbs. You’re trying to generalize “skill” across the entire WvW population which is meaningless. It’s human nature to believe otherwise but when you generalize ‘skill’ across a large random population, the only result can be numbers (brute force).

The priority will be clear to everyone and ultimately the server with the best coverage and numbers will best maintain control of the buffs. This causes the stronger server to become even stronger and makes fights even more uneven. It directly contradicts what you’re trying to argue in the last sentence.

Also, magic find? I care about WXP. No repair costs is nice too and would certainly help promote open field fights.

Stat boost for the winning side sounds incredibly stupid.

Losing teams already give up when stats are even.

Zephyrus.9680:

Dual.8953:

Zephyrus.9680:

Vena.8436:

DrWhom.3105:

Honestly I’d rather the buff were entirely reward orientated, which wouldn’t step on either side’s toes. +50% XP, MF, WXP. Maybe to make the buff more meaningful, you get twice or three times as many points for stomps. I don’t think that’s enough of a “gamechanger” for Anet though, which is why I made those other suggestions.

But then its irrelevant and doesn’t do anything.

I’d bet my bottom dollar that the whole point of making it “stats” and a “game changer” is to force people to care about it. The same way no one cares about Outmanned now, is the same way no one will care about Bloodlust if all it did was give you PvE rewards.

But that’s the opposite of what it should be. Why reward the stronger team with MORE power? Already tried with orbs, already failed. You just get one team that snowballs which is boring for everyone all around.

So switch the new bloodlust buff with the current outmanned. The outmanned team gets a small stat boost to help balance the combat, the dominant team gets greater rewards.

And who would waste their time getting a minor MF bonus when they could be getting towers? Southsun already showed us that not even +300% MF makes a noticeable difference. If no one would care about the points, there’d be no grand open battles trying to get them, no new tactics, just the same old WvW with the odd roamers grabbing them because they happen to be in the area.
The beauty of these control points is small groups can aid their servers in ways they never could before. They can be more places then a blob can and play keep away with the blob rather easily. This’d make commanders have to think. They’d have to become more coordinated and split up. If a server has a good set of coordinated strategists and disciplined fighters, they’d be able to perform some really interesting plays. All they need is good communication and incentive. Idealy then, WvW would evolve into a game that weighs strategy, discipline, communication and coordination over simple brute force tactics.

That doesn’t address the issue we already saw with orbs. You’re trying to generalize “skill” across the entire WvW population which is meaningless. It’s human nature to believe otherwise but when you generalize ‘skill’ across a large random population, the only result can be numbers (brute force).

The priority will be clear to everyone and ultimately the server with the best coverage and numbers will best maintain control of the buffs. This causes the stronger server to become even stronger and makes fights even more uneven. It directly contradicts what you’re trying to argue in the last sentence.

Also, magic find? I care about WXP. No repair costs is nice too and would certainly help promote open field fights.

What serious commander is going to care about loot when their Garrison is under attack? What serious commander is going to fight another commander over a loot buff when that enemy commander has left their keep unguarded? How can a blob be in 15 places at once?

Dual.8953:

What serious commander is going to care about loot when their Garrison is under attack?

If Garrison is under attack there’s loot to be had.

Dual.8953:

Zephyrus.9680:

Dual.8953:

Zephyrus.9680:

Vena.8436:

DrWhom.3105:

Honestly I’d rather the buff were entirely reward orientated, which wouldn’t step on either side’s toes. +50% XP, MF, WXP. Maybe to make the buff more meaningful, you get twice or three times as many points for stomps. I don’t think that’s enough of a “gamechanger” for Anet though, which is why I made those other suggestions.

But then its irrelevant and doesn’t do anything.

I’d bet my bottom dollar that the whole point of making it “stats” and a “game changer” is to force people to care about it. The same way no one cares about Outmanned now, is the same way no one will care about Bloodlust if all it did was give you PvE rewards.

But that’s the opposite of what it should be. Why reward the stronger team with MORE power? Already tried with orbs, already failed. You just get one team that snowballs which is boring for everyone all around.

So switch the new bloodlust buff with the current outmanned. The outmanned team gets a small stat boost to help balance the combat, the dominant team gets greater rewards.

And who would waste their time getting a minor MF bonus when they could be getting towers? Southsun already showed us that not even +300% MF makes a noticeable difference. If no one would care about the points, there’d be no grand open battles trying to get them, no new tactics, just the same old WvW with the odd roamers grabbing them because they happen to be in the area.
The beauty of these control points is small groups can aid their servers in ways they never could before. They can be more places then a blob can and play keep away with the blob rather easily. This’d make commanders have to think. They’d have to become more coordinated and split up. If a server has a good set of coordinated strategists and disciplined fighters, they’d be able to perform some really interesting plays. All they need is good communication and incentive. Idealy then, WvW would evolve into a game that weighs strategy, discipline, communication and coordination over simple brute force tactics.

That doesn’t address the issue we already saw with orbs. You’re trying to generalize “skill” across the entire WvW population which is meaningless. It’s human nature to believe otherwise but when you generalize ‘skill’ across a large random population, the only result can be numbers (brute force).

The priority will be clear to everyone and ultimately the server with the best coverage and numbers will best maintain control of the buffs. This causes the stronger server to become even stronger and makes fights even more uneven. It directly contradicts what you’re trying to argue in the last sentence.

Also, magic find? I care about WXP. No repair costs is nice too and would certainly help promote open field fights.

What serious commander is going to care about loot when their Garrison is under attack? What serious commander is going to fight another commander over a loot buff when that enemy commander has left their keep unguarded? How can a blob be in 15 places at once?

Why are you referring to tactics and strategy again when I already addressed that? Everyone has the option to do tactics so you can present an infinite number of tactical hypotheticals and ALL of them have nothing to do with buffs except incidentally as strategic objectives. NOT everyone has the option to do numbers though and the bottom line is that higher numbers can and will end up doing things lower numbers can’t.

So again, please explain how these new buffs somehow ignore the snowball problem that we saw with orbs. They won’t. They will favor the larger team which has the resources to take and hold them, and this will cause a snowball that everyone hates.

Here’s how your tactical hypotheticals will actually play out. The commander with the larger numbers will take the buffs and post a scout or two, then proceed to take the Keep you mentioned with the ease of buffed stats. Then they will do the same with every other objective… There goes your tactics. Really no serious WvW player likes snowballs (welcome to prove me wrong).

Not with stat buff no.

no, I want real fights

No No No.

(we need to go to the armory)

No. Amazing they are not getting it. Its not surprising to see they think trying to turn it into a long battleground is a good idea as well.

No i really dont want a stat buff. This is supposed to be a game of skill not stats,

Yes for me and my server.

No to my enemy’s and their server getting it.

Hey Devon, wheres your silly comments/excuses in this thread?

yes

/15characters

Istaf.1953:

Hey Devon, wheres your silly comments/excuses in this thread?

He doesn’t need one.

In general yes, a buff for playing WvW successfully would be nice, but in it´s current state i say no because a stat increase is obviously the dumbest thing they could do. There are so much buffs available that wouldn´t be harmful, like gold, karma, wxp etc.

No, if any of the buffs are global (across all maps). Still no, but to a lesser extent, if there are stat buffs at all. Qualified yes to a point on stomp on that map alone.

As a wuvwuver who enjoys almost every aspect of wvw (be it small scale, guild group, zerg or zone-wide coordination), I have strong concerns about the type of stat bonuses given to the server having the bloodlust buff on them.
There are plenty of – in my opinion – reasonable suggestions, e.g. give +mf and +gold, or limit the bonuses to owned structures only (just like the guild claim buffs work).

I really like the points on stomp mechanic, because it may provide further incentives for small scale fights (though, I can see zerging down small groups and then stomp them won’t be that hard anyways).

Yes to buff mechanics, No to buffed stats.

Hell no, stop with this madness anet !

No to stat bonus, yes to points for spiking.

I don’t know.
Need to se the whole mechanics put into action to come down for or against.

No.

Is the simple answer.

count updated —-—-

/no
and this is for 15 chars.

No.

/15 overpowered characters

To all people saying that they should give the Outmanned buff the stat-boost instead:

How do you think that would effect the game? Do you really think it would make the game and community better? I am almost completely sure that the only thing it would accomplish would be to have people abuse other people because they join the map and remove their buff.

This can already be seen in the game with the scaling events. If someone turns up and make the event harder people will abuse them until they leave because they want an easy fight.

• ascended stuff
• sentry buffs
• new bloodlust buff

I’m aware that WvW isn’t meant to be anywhere near fair or balanced – but this is becoming quite ridiculous. Coverage and numbers already decide wars – which I’m fine with – lets not make it worse.

Normally, gamers tend to look for sort of balance – too difficult and ppl QQ and leave, too easy and while they don’t cry they get bored and only lured by even bigger rewards (is this why we got to ascended in the 1st place?)

NO to stats, power creep.
Yes to stomp-points – should have been there since day one.

I really looking forward to every single pixel from this new patch, minus the tainted mark of bloodlust buff.

no it will ruin the fun for smaller servers

To anyone associating this with GvG: you clearly haven’t done any of these in WvW:
Solo-roaming.
Small-scale zerg busting.
Fair duels at windmill.
Duo or trio roaming.
Protecting yaks or camps against multiple opponents.
Recording footage of said actions for kitten.

All this will be ruined sadly…

P.s.: I don’t want any stat buffs that are not accessible for everyone.

No

Why would you give a server with the most coverage/ map population a buff when they are already dominating.

Switch the bloodlust buff with the outmanned buff and it would be fine. Keep the points for stomping though.

A clean and simple: NO

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Bloodlust-in-the-borderlands-A-truer-concept/

Check that concept out.

No to the stat bonus. There are plenty of other viable buff options they could give not related to stats.

no to the buff, making servers that are strong even stronger. absolutely stupid

Yes …………

lordkrall.7241:

To all people saying that they should give the Outmanned buff the stat-boost instead:

How do you think that would effect the game? Do you really think it would make the game and community better? I am almost completely sure that the only thing it would accomplish would be to have people abuse other people because they join the map and remove their buff.

This can already be seen in the game with the scaling events. If someone turns up and make the event harder people will abuse them until they leave because they want an easy fight.

i dont think that would happen. if it was switched it would make it so the team/s that is outnummbered a fair chance against a dominating server once the outnubbered buff is gone it kinda mean that you do technically have enough player to deal with the enemy you just have to think / play smart

NO , did any one of us had this idea, or was just the server’s that play with huge blobs request it, so it will be even easier to take out the organised group’s?
i like the new map but NOT the buff , remove the buff replace it with 10 extra point’s on tick if the server that hold 3 or more point’s for the tick

when is the arena net going to listen the players that want to make this amazing game even better WHEN???

STOP LISTEN QQ from the blobers