Guild Wars 2

These are all good changes and steps in the right direction. I’d be the first to nitpick something to chew you guys out about, but…. you didn’t leave me any room to do so. Good work, and please keep working in this direction, towards the community. And thank you for the update.

I look forward to these changes, and they seem to be a step in the right direction. I still want to see the changes in the total overhaul, but thanks for listening to us here!

Gaile Gray.6029:

Please let us know what you think of these changes. We’re going to hold off on picking a release date until we have a chance to review your feedback, but we’d like to target early 2016. So please add your feedback about these proposals to this thread.

This line while hilarious, should have been your approach from the beginning. Anet we love you and this game mode, but just a bit of transparency is how we can help save it!

My fights guild will relish the opportunity for PPK again! <3

The third one is especially awesome but all look good so far.

No rallying and rezzing anymore? Well that will be a controversial change. Let’s see how this goes

These changes look good but, I’m not 100% sure about not being able to rezz in combat.

We also need a WvW league btw

Gaile Gray.6029:

Before we jump into the changes, we just want to make it very clear that the changes you’ll read about below are not a part of the big World vs World update that we’ve previously mentioned. This update is the first of what we hope are more regular updates to the existing core of World vs. World.

…

We’re going to hold off on picking a release date until we have a chance to review your feedback, but we’d like to target early 2016. So please add your feedback about these proposals to this thread.

That seems remarkably vague to me. If the “big WvW update” is less regular than the changes that target “sometime in the next several months,” I don’t think I’m qualified to speculate on when we’ll be seeing that one.

Regardless, these changes sound interesting. The fight is effectively over for defeated players, since respawning in a map as huge as the desert borderlands means you’ll never get back to the fight before one side has wiped out all traces of the other.

The dolyak changes sound very reasonable.

Currently, catapults take forever for small groups. Running to a supply camp and back takes long enough for guard NPCs to respawn several times, so one or two players (depending on the number of NPCs at that location) need to stay behind and protect the construction site. That means it takes more trips to the supply camp, which becomes tedious (especially for the ones guarding the siege). It’s still quite possible to take keeps with a small group in this way, but only with a significant time investment; also, it’s probably only possible because the Deserted Borderlands usually don’t have many players defending on the mid- to low-tier servers (in my experience).

The rally limitation sounds a little extreme to me, but it’s impossible to know the full implications until we see it in action. I foresee considerable frustration for many players, especially in combination with the new limitations on reviving in combat.

All of these changes look great to me. Flash ressing full dead in combat always seemed to me like a major issue in WvW. It’s important for people to remember that you can still res hard downs outside of combat under this proposed system, so you can still grab your full downs between fights and after fights. If this means an end to the rally war, than I totally approve. Also, my guild leader cried tears of joy at the catapult cost reduction. All in all, these seem like they’ll be a step in the right direction.

PPK! Finally!

Thank you, Reyana, for bringing so many different voices to the forefront. Have a happy holiday season, guys!

“Players will also no longer be able to revive defeated players while in combat.”

Ohhhh shnaps!

Clarification with the dead rezzing. If you begin rezzing a dead player and get attacked, will that interrupt the rez?

Gaile Gray.6029:

Please let us know what you think of these changes. We’re going to hold off on picking a release date until we have a chance to review your feedback, but we’d like to target early 2016. So please add your feedback about these proposals to this thread.

Collectively these are a sorely needed set of changes, some of which the community has desired for years. There’s nothing to nitpick IMO. Release them ASAP.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Players will also no longer be able to revive defeated players while in combat.

Best change since launch, Much needed.

No longer will you just be able to brute force your way through groups with numbers because of your mass hard ressing, Nor will you be able to stand in arrowcart fire with no worries because you’ll get hard ressed.

Honestly it was stupid that you could res a dead player, It made being fully dead more beneficial in most cases than just being downed. You don’t lose res progress, can’t get cleaved ect.

This will make everything from 2v5 to 20v40 more possible, Good all round imo.

Definitely applaud these changes. Look forward to seeing them in action.

I like all of the changes so far. No automatic upgrades based on time is especially nice Thanks.

Roll up! Roll up!

WvW to get lots of new updates.
All this and more coming Soon™

Sorry if I’m not that excited about this post, but we’ve all heard this before.

I’ll believe it when I see it, and then again will it be changes we want, or what anet wants?!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Passive-Upgrade-System-DISCUSS/page/4#post5114353

=)

So far so good. “One small step for WvW, one large step..”..no its small but its definitely good one.

These changes are appreciated. Thank you.

These are AMAZING changes… THANK YOU for listening ANET!

Thanks for listening, I’ll definitely go back to WvW; hope you’ll use more of Reyana’s interview series to improve WvW in the guild fights way.

Seriously, this is fantastic news to see you are in fact listening. The small changes can and will improve the quality of life considerably in WvW. Keep em’ coming!

The number of players who can rally off a single kill has been reduced from five to one. Players will also no longer be able to revive defeated players while in combat. You still will be able to revive downed players while in combat. Both of these changes are designed to help fights resolve and to give smaller, more skilled groups a better chance against larger groups.

Not allowing people to res the dead in combat doesn’t really make sense because it’s too easy to keep people in combat forever due to treb gas. It’s also just way too easy to troll someone without ever having any intention of actually fighting someone.

It sounds like fun, but not for people who aren’t trolling.

The other problem is that “in combat” often doesn’t actually mean you’re fighting anyone. You could just be in very, very, very distant siege.

tl;dr, after a fight is over, you should be able to res people.

Neutering the rally cap mechanic itself completely removes the incentive to run fewer people and reduces the amount of influence one person can have on a fight, positively or negatively. It’s always been the rally mechanic that helps me when I’m running a smaller group against a larger one. There are obviously fights where I get run over without it helping, but that isn’t the rally mechanic’s fault.

The rally mechanic only helps the smaller group unless the smaller group has no coordination, in which case I don’t know what you could really do for that group.

e: Like, I’d really be interested to hear from the developers what they think the mechanism of action is here on the rally mechanic? How do they think it’s not fufilling its task?

These changes do sound very good. A small counterpoint to the reduction in cost of catapults, though: while I agree with the supply cost reduction, it is currently more favorable to attack an objective with a cata vs. using rams, since the new fortified gates take so much longer to break. Even extremely large groups (that could easily break all the siege on the gate) are using only catapults to attack objectives simply because there are places to put them with no way to defend against them and since it takes about the same amount of time anyway (and sometimes as well with the added bonus of being able to hit both outer and inner with the same siege). Since you’re buffing catapults, I’d like to also recommend making the decision between attacking gates vs. attacking walls a closer contest (e.g. make it possible to break the gates quicker so you’re looking at being able to capture it quicker if you take a gamble and use rams).

A good example of this case is the new earth keep/garrison on the borderlands. You can attack with catapults from the east wall and hit both outer and inner. If the catapults are placed right, none of the free siege in the keep can be used to defend against them, and only an arrow cart can be used until the outer wall is down (once the outer is down, though, trebs, catas, and ballistas inside the keep inner can be used for defense). The catapults can be reused to hit the east inner wall. This also doesn’t work on the west side of the keep, either, so I feel like it’s skewed to whichever attacking server spawns on the east side of the map. (Also, the supply depot on the outer east of the keep is very far from the wall, making it extremely difficult to even repair. The depot on west outer is very close to the wall – another point skewing it towards attackers coming from the east.)

Good and easy changes. What took you so long though? Anyway, you better do something big before end of January cos I’m out and don’t intend to look back.

And unlikely the others who thank you, I will not. You are the one you must thank me for playing the game mode in such bad state for 3 years.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Players will also no longer be able to revive defeated players while in combat.

This has never been an annoyance, I’m far from sure it’s the best decision but it won’t be catastrophic either.
Rest is good but it will not resolve the empty maps/servers + high transfer fees issue.

Nerf to rallybotting is a good one. No longer will you have to run the risk of uplevels causing the enemy zerg to pop up. The zombie hardressing won’t be missed either.

Anyhow, these are some changes I have seen often requested, so I wouldn’t be too sad if you put these out the door pronto. =p

This is great

Gaile Gray.6029:

A message from the World vs World Team:

• Supply cost for all catapults are being reduced by ten supply. The layout of the Desert Borderlands map has increased the number of catapults required to take some objectives. We agree with your feedback that also increasing the cost of catapults pushed the balance too far towards defense so we are tuning that more towards offense….

These are great changes to see! Please consider making guild catapults cost less than standard ones again, havoc teams depended heavily on them and having guild catapults were always such a nice thing to have.

Maybe not 25 supply like before, but 35 for guild, 40 for regular, and 50 for superior?

Hopefully we see more oft requested changes make their way into the game in 2016! Happy Holidays

I like these changes. But bring back my Borderlands. They were more competitive than what we currently have.

‘The number of players who can rally off a single kill has been reduced from five to one. Players will also no longer be able to revive defeated players while in combat. You still will be able to revive downed players while in combat. Both of these changes are designed to help fights resolve and to give smaller, more skilled groups a better chance against larger groups.’
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This is fantastic. I have been waiting so long for this. Finally!!!!!!!!!

Two really needed changes:

1) Nerf Revenant Hammer #2. Some guilds are going full revenant now and you can do 7k+ damage per hit to 5 players, on a skill with a 2-second cooldown. This is an absurd amount of damage and makes it so you can’t even get close to guilds that are running this setup.

2) Reverse the stability change in WvW, so that stability does not get stripped when CC is done. Again, this makes it very difficult for a group to engage another group, because they can simply be CC bombed.

I’m glad you’ve made a couple changes relevant to fighting guilds (the rally change, and points for killing). But the two things I mentioned above have the biggest impact on fighting guilds, please address them.

PPK nice !
But plz ad a debuff that your a not give the enemy a ppk the next seconds when you got hit by siege so ppt tryhard server cannot bunker in ac´s or build open field ac´s to farm points

And the most important change is still missing:
Reroll old stability!! the stab change only had kill much of the fun in fights!!

Related to WvW but not to the original topic (but I figure the WvW team is reading this thread and wanted to get their attention…)

Right now T3 SMC is completely overpowered. If a server is crushing the other 2 in the matchup bad enough to manage to fortify SMC, the last thing they need is a free waypoint in it to make it even easier for them to move around the map to wreck the other servers even harder. In my opinion, either make the waypoint behave like it does in keeps (e.g. you get it immediately after capture instead of having to wait for upgrades) or eliminate it.

Personally I think the no hard res thing is a great change and doesn’t go far enough. I would also completely remove the speed increase of multiple people resing a downed player while in combat (or limit the max number to 2). It would open up the role of medics in a zerg and make outnumbered fighting much more satisfying in smaller battles.

I’m not sure I love only one person being able to rally per player spiked, but it might be a good change.

In total, these changes are much appreciated, thank you for the communication and for attempting to improve WvW. Things are looking up.

“The number of players who can rally off a single kill has been reduced from five to one. Players will also no longer be able to revive defeated players while in combat. You still will be able to revive downed players while in combat. Both of these changes are designed to help fights resolve and to give smaller, more skilled groups a better chance against larger groups.”

To me, this reads “everyone will run full Berserker builds and it will be a DPS race on every fight.” This sounds like it would discourage traditional roles and relegate everyone to the pirate ship meta without the frontline.

[Players will also no longer be able to revive defeated players while in combat.]

Hmmm I’m unsure about this one.

Now the better question that plagues WvW was the stability changes. Gaile, is there any changes going into this direction? Maybe a revert perhaps? This would bring so many players back.

Like this, especially fond of 3+4. Wasn’t annoyed by 1+2 in particular, but I’ve seen plenty of others that will love those changes. Will miss full upgraded camps everywhere

Stargalleum.4970:

Two really needed changes:

1) Nerf Revenant Hammer #2. Some guilds are going full revenant now and you can do 7k+ damage per hit to 5 players, on a skill with a 2-second cooldown. This is an absurd amount of damage and makes it so you can’t even get close to guilds that are running this setup.

2) Reverse the stability change in WvW, so that stability does not get stripped when CC is done. Again, this makes it very difficult for a group to engage another group, because they can simply be CC bombed.

7k? You forgot the first number, it hits for 14-18k when the trait is triggered (see screenshot)

Also I totally about Stability, it was a bad change initially.

Ok, well I’m okay with the changes for the most part. However when I’m rezzing a dead ally after a fight and that pesky PVE creature starts attacking me, it’s going to annoy the hell out of me even more than before.

Points per kill will be turned on and kept on. This is to more directly recognize the contribution that fighting other players adds to the success of the world.
The number of players who can rally off a single kill has been reduced from five to one. Players will also no longer be able to revive defeated players while in combat. You still will be able to revive downed players while in combat. Both of these changes are designed to help fights resolve and to give smaller, more skilled groups a better chance against larger groups.

^^^^
FINALLY.

Any news on seasonal WvW achievements?

I like pretty much all of the proposed changes, however I don’t think anyone can really know how the no res in combat and only one rally off of a kill will play out. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do an event week with the rally and res changes BEFORE anything else right away. That would be very helpful to evaluate things and allow for a little tweaking of the mechanic as needed. Hell, do a week with all the changes and then collect feedback, that would awesome.

To keep trying to give some sort of importance to fights and kills in WvW is a terrible idea in my opinion. It encourages fights over strategy and made WvW what it was before HoT, a map full of zerg only looking for a fight, and GvG, making the whole purpose and the huge possibilities of the gamemode useless. And it promotes even more numbers over quality.

Well, sadly it’s too little, too late for many players and guilds, but this is the first time I’ve ever read a list of changes from Anet and agreed completely with each of them.

The only thing I’d add is that the new borderlands look nice, but regardless of siege requirements and autoupgrade changes, most players will not play on them.

They are too large, the terrain is not conducive to fighting (which is why we’re in WvW to begin with), there’s PvE and chokes and fall damage everywhere, on top of the map gimmicks that just aren’t fun…

If you guys did a poll asking WvW players if they’d just rather have the old borderlands back, I’d wager you’d get a resounding ‘Yes’.

Even so, these proposed changes look great. Wish it was being rolled out tomorrow.