Guild Wars 2

Ok, so I have this theory. Simple and none to dramatic or stupid. But I think the Humans are going through the same godly abandonment that the Jotun went through! It is implied by Thruun The Lost (Forgive me if the name is incorrect) in the Great Lodge, Hoelbrak, that the Jotun were once a very powerful race of spell casters and lorekeepers. They were the most powerful people in Tyria. But the power went to their heads and civil wars came from every corner until they caved in on each other. In that time however, their gods who gave them said magic went over to the Humans, seeing their potential. The Humans rose to power. But… Much like the Jotun, their gods went silent… They left. So all I’m saying is, someone is gonna rise up with 6 gods they worship.

Correct me if anything here is inaccurate, and tell me what you think.

Well I’m not sure we can equate the abandonment of the Jotun to the abandonment of the humans (since it also left the Jotun magically powerless, while humans still have similar access to magic). The gods seem to have left Tyria because of Abaddon. The Jotun were abandoned because they were arrogant (or depending on who you ask because the gods feared the Jotun). As for civil war, not in GW2 that I can tell although my knowledge of GW1 is limited (White Mantel perhaps?).

Otherwise it seems possible. The gods are said to have gone into the mist, possibly to find another world, or race. We might very well see them return with their new chosen race (like they did with the humans). Would be ironic if they invaded Divinity’s Reach.

Not a bad theory. But who else is there that worships gods? The Charr basically want nothing to do with them after the debacle with the titans, the humans we know about, the Silvari are agnostic towards the 6, and tend to view the Pale Tree as their “god” (although it is revered, its not quite the same as worshiping a god, but close enough.) The Norn have their Spirits. The Asura have their Eternal Alchemy (which is more akin to the Force than anything IMO :P ). The Krait have their prophets, and its strongly implied that their Prophets are fake anyway. The Kodan have their one god, Koda. And Hylek, the sun.

Of course this isn’t ALL of the races, but it seem rather unlikely that another race will abandon their cultural beliefs in favor of following the human gods, even if they were “adapted” to that paticular culture.

I’m not saying it is impossible, but the way we’ve had it portrayed to us, the gods left out of concern for the humans. They wanted humans to fend for themselves, not be trapped in a dependency on deities, and they also before the Exodus came to the conclusion that their presence and meddling was causing more problems than it solved.

Given that the jotun do not remember ever worshiping gods, Thruln’s claims take on a subtext of seizing on a scapegoat- “Look, it’s not our fault we’re this way! Someone else must be responsible! What about these guys? They did something that seems similar to what was done to us. It must have been them!”

pdavis.8031:

Not a bad theory. But who else is there that worships gods?

That’s the joy’s of the mists (where it seems the gods now reside), we could have all sorts of interesting creatures and races popping up in there.

There is always the possibility that the Jotun’s gods were usurped in the same way as Abaddon and Grenth, and whoever/whatever took their place had no favor for the Jotun.

A lot of Thruln’s lines are questionable, so I am doubtful that there were gods even in the first place for the jotun. It is a heavy point made that the jotun are very prideful, greedy, and vain. They – even their ancestors – do not worship gods, but their own ancestors and themselves (see jotun blogpost) It is also heavily made – more so than the previous point – that the jotun’s fall was because of this very pride and greed, that they turned on themselves because the jotun as a race ran out of enemies. And this is even brought up and shown to us by the very last giant-king, and ancestor to Thruln the Lost during the norn personal story step Echoes of Ages Past.

The chances of Thruln the Lost telling a false history is extremely high. If there is any truth to him talking about the jotun losing magic it either came when the Seers created the original Bloodstone, or when the Six Gods reduced magic from the world at a whole after it was given too freely.

Grawl confirmed for next great Species. We’d never see it coming.

There is a race we dont really know a lot about. A race who have walled themselves in to keep them apart from the rest of Tyria.
Maybe we can think of them as Noah in his boat, saving the chosen ones from the apocalypse?
Thats why they didnt lift a finger to help when Scarlet flattened LA, they are waiting for the world to be destroyed so they can be the next superior race on Tyria, and they believed Scarlet was the start of that.
Because someone has promised this to happen.
Maybe the 6?

JoeytheHutt.1742:

There is a race we dont really know a lot about. A race who have walled themselves in to keep them apart from the rest of Tyria.
Maybe we can think of them as Noah in his boat, saving the chosen ones from the apocalypse?
Thats why they didnt lift a finger to help when Scarlet flattened LA, they are waiting for the world to be destroyed so they can be the next superior race on Tyria, and they believed Scarlet was the start of that.
Because someone has promised this to happen.
Maybe the 6?

You must be refering to the Tengu. Although it is not fully known WHY they have isolated themselves, it is BELIEVED that after they returned to Tryia following Zhaitans awakening, they shut themselves up to avoid the wars and potential genocide that had occured in the past. Also after the defeat of Zhaitan, the Tengu might have a renewed interestest in helping to defeat the other Elder Dragons.

However there isn’t much known about their religious beliefs, although ancient Tengu held to an afterlife. But with the strong Japanese/Asian theme surrounding the Tengu, one can SPECULATE that they would hold a similar belief structure, which is more focused around spirituality, personal enlightenment and growth, than the worship of an actual Diety.

JOTUN: If you look in the wiki, it states that the Jotun’s were “granted magic that led the races to prominence… their power came to rival that of the gods themselves, who began to fear that the jotun would use magic against them. The jotun giant-kings, confused and enraged, turned on one another, and the gods abandoned them, taking their magic away and handed it over to other races, causing the crumbling of jotun civilization.”

This is the fall of the last of the great Giant Races, of which the Norn are also counted, apparently. The fall of the Jotan was because they turned on each other, according to lore, not the loss of magic. The loss of magic was simply the catalyst that began their turning on each other.

TENGU: The Tengu have a long history of humans trying to hunt them to extinction. After Zhaitan rose (the tengu calling this event the Great Tsunami), they migrated to Tyria and, “Out of fear of a repeated past, they constructed a great wall to encircle their city, and non-tengu are not permitted to enter.” So it was no promise of future glory, but rather fear of past genocides that prompted this action.

As a side note, the wiki also mentions that recently Destroyers have surfaced inside the dominion walls….if the Tengu become a player race, this may be the cause of their change of xenophobic policy as they reach out a hand/wing for help.

pdavis.8031:

You must be refering to the Tengu.

Heh, forgot to say who I was thinking of..

I just got somewhat fascinated with op’s idea that maybe the gods are lookin for a new pet-project. Perhaps the gods is part of the same cyklus as the dragons, and the gods will return in some form, maybe as the six, maybe as nature spirits, maybe as whatever the Tengu worship, or even the skritt. Or maybe not.
Its just some what if’s, the thought of an endless ongoing cyklus with dragons destruction followed by the gods rebuilding followed by dragons destruction and so on and so on, is fascinating to me.
I dont know if anybody knows how many times the dragons have rised, if its the third or the hundred, but IF the gods are preparing to come back, lookin for someone to “help”, I think the Tengu could be a choice.
And, speculating while writing this, the grawl do remind me of the jotun, that they too could be a former glory who has fallen. Maybe they had the gods favour before the jotun?
Probably a lot of flat out wrongs in this, but it is fun to try “what if”

The gods won’t be back because they don’t fit the game. Human gods in a game of mostly non-human races doesn’t work.

Wanderer.3248:

The gods won’t be back because they don’t fit the game. Human gods in a game of mostly non-human races doesn’t work.

I wouldn’t say it doesn’t work- in fact, the way the story team very early on bothered to define how the other races handle the Six meant that the way was paved for the gods to be able to work years before launch. I think the bigger issue, one that came up a lot back in July, is that the gods have really become sort of symbolic for fans’ nostalgia for GW1, and I just cannot imagine a way any story thread or plot line could live up to even most of the expectations us players would heap upon it.

6 gods..
6 dragons…
anyone?

purper dawn.2983:

6 gods..
6 dragons…
anyone?

Although it does appear to be a coinsidence, I think that the only real connection is the number 6. The 6 human gods didn’t arrive on Tryia until sometime between when the Tome of Rubicon was written, and 786 BE. Which was several thousand years AFTER the previous awakening of the Elder Dragons. So the EDs were here well before the appearance of the 6.

wiki source

Concerning the time of the writting of the Tome: “The Tome of the Rubicon is a derivative work of a much older text of the same name. The original text was purportedly written by the Great Dwarf himself around the time the Elder Dragons last awakened.”

Gany.1793:

JOTUN: If you look in the wiki, it states that the Jotun’s were “granted magic that led the races to prominence… their power came to rival that of the gods themselves, who began to fear that the jotun would use magic against them. The jotun giant-kings, confused and enraged, turned on one another, and the gods abandoned them, taking their magic away and handed it over to other races, causing the crumbling of jotun civilization.”

This is the fall of the last of the great Giant Races, of which the Norn are also counted, apparently. The fall of the Jotan was because they turned on each other, according to lore, not the loss of magic. The loss of magic was simply the catalyst that began their turning on each other.

Tbh, to me, this sounds like the words that Thruln The Lost (is that his name?) is repeating to everyone in Hoelbrak, of which a number are known to be false. And wiki isn’t always correct.

The Six didn’t take away magic for one.

If the Jotun became competitive to the six and got their magic taken away, it expectable that we do not talk about the six doing this. I got furthermore the impression that the six have carbon copies:
Melandru – Melagga (Quaggan), Balthazar – Badhasar (Grawl), Dwayna – , Lyssa – , Grenth/Dhuum – , Abaddon/Kormir –
A list might be interesting, but I have none.

It get’s even worse if I take the spirits in concernation, because animals (not all but some) are tied to the spirits. Some seem double (bear, wolf), some are suspected to be spirit (wurm, dragon), some are exiled (minotaur, …), some are dead (owl, ?eagle?) and and and. Langmar estate lists 8 inside guarded by a legendary drake, but we have just 4 represented in Hoelbrack.

I think gods are at all bad defined. Where does it start where does it end? Are the six minor or major? Do they have copies? If yes, are they the copies?

Horst Hortensie.5420:

I think gods are at all bad defined. Where does it start where does it end? Are the six minor or major? Do they have copies? If yes, are they the copies?

If by copies you mean other versions of the same aspects? Than they 6 ARE the copies. We don’t know much, but we DO know that the gods can be defeated and replaced (See Abbadon and Dhuum), and that the 6 (as we know them) are the current “set”, if you will, of an older pantheon, from which existed before and from which Abbadon recieved his powers.

Wiki here.

The quaggan deity IS Melandru. (Or very much thought to be such). Quaggan simply are too polite to debate it in detail.

The one tribe of grawl worship a statue of balthazar, nothing more.

I think for spirits you mean Angvar’s Trove? That’s the norn one :P. Anyway, it’s said the spirits of the wild have varying levels. Bear, wolf, leopord, and raven are the top, but other exist. Wurm, Dolyak(also known as ox), Owl, Wolverine, Minotaur, Hare, Otter, griffon, eagle, even Gorilla(maybe). We know Owl is dead, it’s havroun confirmed it. The other three that fought Jormag have their fates unknown as they haven’t had a havroun to communicate with them in generations. The four represented are the biggest/more revered, and likely the most communicative of the spirits.

pdavis.8031:

Horst Hortensie.5420:

I think gods are at all bad defined. Where does it start where does it end? Are the six minor or major? Do they have copies? If yes, are they the copies?

If by copies you mean other versions of the same aspects? Than they 6 ARE the copies. We don’t know much, but we DO know that the gods can be defeated and replaced (See Abbadon and Dhuum), and that the 6 (as we know them) are the current “set”, if you will, of an older pantheon, from which existed before and from which Abbadon recieved his powers.

Wiki here.

IIRC, Melandru actually has had no predecessor, and in some theories is thought to actually have come from another, completely different set of gods. She is the oldest of the six after all.

Kalavier.1097:

The quaggan deity IS Melandru. (Or very much thought to be such). Quaggan simply are too polite to debate it in detail.

The one tribe of grawl worship a statue of balthazar, nothing more.

I think for spirits you mean Angvar’s Trove? That’s the norn one :P. Anyway, it’s said the spirits of the wild have varying levels. Bear, wolf, leopord, and raven are the top, but other exist. Wurm, Dolyak(also known as ox), Owl, Wolverine, Minotaur, Hare, Otter, griffon, eagle, even Gorilla(maybe). We know Owl is dead, it’s havroun confirmed it. The other three that fought Jormag have their fates unknown as they haven’t had a havroun to communicate with them in generations. The four represented are the biggest/more revered, and likely the most communicative of the spirits.

pdavis.8031:

Horst Hortensie.5420:

I think gods are at all bad defined. Where does it start where does it end? Are the six minor or major? Do they have copies? If yes, are they the copies?

If by copies you mean other versions of the same aspects? Than they 6 ARE the copies. We don’t know much, but we DO know that the gods can be defeated and replaced (See Abbadon and Dhuum), and that the 6 (as we know them) are the current “set”, if you will, of an older pantheon, from which existed before and from which Abbadon recieved his powers.

Wiki here.

IIRC, Melandru actually has had no predecessor, and in some theories is thought to actually have come from another, completely different set of gods. She is the oldest of the six after all.

That may be the case, however it still does point to an older and different set of gods (i.e. pantheon) and would mean that the current 6 would be “copies” (in the loosest translation of the word and Melandru being an exemption) of that older pantheon.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

I think gods are at all bad defined. Where does it start where does it end? Are the six minor or major? Do they have copies? If yes, are they the copies?

Honestly, I’m of the opinion that that’s the way it should be. These are gods, after all, and what separates a god from some very powerful being is that they are somehow beyond mortals- be it beyond mortal lifespan, beyond mortal powers, beyond mortal knowledge, beyond mortal comprehension, any will do, but the more you have, the more that makes them a god. When the defining trait is some sort of mysterious, nebulous “greater-than-thou”- usually referred to as divinity- categories and exact limits shouldn’t be applicable, or they go from being gods to some sort of natural (magical) phenomena, to be scientifically dismantled and filed away like all the rest. Once it’s gotten to that point, there’s really no point to having gods at all.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

If the Jotun became competitive to the six and got their magic taken away, it expectable that we do not talk about the six doing this. I got furthermore the impression that the six have carbon copies:
Melandru – Melagga (Quaggan), Balthazar – Badhasar (Grawl), Dwayna – , Lyssa – , Grenth/Dhuum – , Abaddon/Kormir –
A list might be interesting, but I have none.

Badazar is just a mispronunciation of Balthazar. The grawl worship natural objects of ambient magic (such as the Six Gods’ statues, like Balthazar’s) and powerful creatures (ice elementals, fleshreavers, icebrood, etc.) – they don’t really have a god.

And it’s Melaggan, not Melagga.

The list of non-human Tyrian gods are as follows:

• Melaggan (Quaggan, goddess of the sea’s bounty)
• Koda (Kodan, the Keeper of the Sky and Founder of the Earth)
• Zintl (Hylek, the Sun God)
• Great Dwarf (dwarf, maker of the dwarves)

I had humored a thought of mine and theorized in a recent thread discussing the Mists and how there are multiple Tyrias: what if the world the Six and humanity came from… was another Tyria, and that the Six are just copies of Melaggan and co with 2 unknowns (or perhaps it is orignially the Five, reason below).

• Koda fits Dwayna, being said to be the top being, a god whom made life, and is called like Dwayna the Keeper of the Sky.
• Melaggan fits Melandru because both are said to represent the wildlife and plantlife (though Melandru is more, being the land and not just underwater)
• Great Dwarf fits Balthazar, as both are about forgery and weapons
• Zintl fits Lyssa best, given the Cathedral of Eternal Radiance (though fits Dwayna just as well if not more so).

Thus we’re lacking an Abaddon and a Dhuum. But there is another possible lining up:

• Abaddon’s predecessor fitting Lyssa, as there is a lot of overlap seen with Abaddon and Lyssa in the Temple of the Forgotten God (aka Cathedral of Hidden Depths) with lies, deception, illusions, and mesmerism.

But this would thus leave Zintl and Dhuum lacking. Unless we take Koda, a god above the world’s spirits, to be the equal of Dhuum, the god of death. Though I feel that’s a mighty big stretch and am more idealized than the idea of two more gods unknown to us that fit the original Six more perfectly.

There are also the Spirits of the Wild and the other worldly spirits (such as Urgoz, a forest spirit, and Zhu Hanuku, a sea spirit, with hints of a Crab spirit alongside Zhu Hanuku).

Horst Hortensie.5420:

It get’s even worse if I take the spirits in concernation, because animals (not all but some) are tied to the spirits. Some seem double (bear, wolf), some are suspected to be spirit (wurm, dragon), some are exiled (minotaur, …), some are dead (owl, ?eagle?) and and and. Langmar estate lists 8 inside guarded by a legendary drake, but we have just 4 represented in Hoelbrack.

Humans would consider the Spirits gods (some, at least; others would place them under Melandru’s domain), and norn would consider the Six to be Spirits of Action.

Dragon is not a spirit, and Wurm is – but a minor one. Minotaur is not exiled, but was forgotten about. Eagle is not dead, but lost like Wolverine and Ox. I don’t know of what 8 spirits you speak of being defended by a legendary drake in Langmar Estate – can’t say I’ve ever seen a legendary drake there and the only “eight spirits” I can think of possibly would be maybe the statues? But there’s nine of those…

purper dawn.2983:

6 gods..
6 dragons…
anyone?

That’s just coincidence. The Gods have changed frequently. In GW1 there were only five gods, for example. Kormir was just a blind woman that followed you around and threw spears.

Kalavier.1097:

The quaggan deity IS Melandru. (Or very much thought to be such). Quaggan simply are too polite to debate it in detail.

So human scholars believe and so Colin slipped up on saying – though whether this is the actual case, is still unknown. There is quite a difference between what they represent, though there’s a lot of overlap.

Kalavier.1097:

I think for spirits you mean Angvar’s Trove? That’s the norn one :P.

That would explain my confusion, since I never got a chance to see that one.

Kalavier.1097:

IIRC, Melandru actually has had no predecessor, and in some theories is thought to actually have come from another, completely different set of gods. She is the oldest of the six after all.

Melandru, Dwayna, Balthazar, Dhuum, Lyssa, and Abaddon’s unnamed predecessor has no known predecessor to them. It is theorized that Melandru and Dwayna, both being represented as winged females alongside with the legend of the harpies being fallen servants of Dwayna and more importantly the many generic winged female statues in the Hall of Heroes, may have been part of the original pantheon – I strongly believe this theory, personally. Balthazar having parents makes him being of the original pantheon unknown – but his godly parent (if both weren’t) certainly most likely was/were. Dhuum is outright questionable and Abaddon’s predecessor is unknown fully except that it exists. Lyssa is outright stated to have unknown origins which leads to suspicion that she is not originally a god (and may even be Tyrian, I theorize).

My main theory (as I have about 4 or 5) about the gods is that the original gods were all winged females, including Balthazar’s mother (which shared parent between Balth and Menzies, idk, given how long he’s lasted Menzies is either a spirit, undead, or a demigod – or a demon for all we know). Of this generation I would also place the predecessors of Dhuum, Abaddon, and Lyssa. And I theorize that Balthazar, Dhuum, and Abaddon each ascended into godhood in the other world before Tyria, with Lyssa in Tyria (Abaddon is said to remember what happened byeond the Mists; Lyssa’s origins are outright called unknown/forgotten; Balthazar’s known to have come from the other world; Dhuum is outright a mystery).

Grenth is called the first Tyrian-born god, which puts a dent into the theory on Lyssa’s part, but again: her origins are outright stated to be unknown, and that spells foreshadowing of a reveal to me.

My second theory revolves around Arachnia and the insectoid gods who’s canonocity is unclarified. Third is the copies of the Mists theory I stated above… Forgot what the other I had was, or if it is even still viable now.

pdavis.8031:

That may be the case, however it still does point to an older and different set of gods (i.e. pantheon) and would mean that the current 6 would be “copies” (in the loosest translation of the word and Melandru being an exemption) of that older pantheon.

Basically, at this point, all we really know for sure is that the gods can be replaced, and some of them (Abaddon, Grenth, heavily implied to be Balthazar) have been replaced. It’s possible that some of the gods are their initial incarnations, though, but it is also possible that they have all been replaced at some stage and Melandru is simply the one that changed the longest time ago.

On the original topic: As other people have said, I consider Thruln the Lost’s testimony to be highly suspect, given that it directly clashes with the testimony of a spirit that was from that era. It is worth noting, though, that the Prophecies Manuscripts state that the gods were moving on to other projects elsewhere – while that document has been shown to be suspect or outright wrong in a number of areas, it’s quite possible that, on deciding that humans were ready to stand on their own, the gods are now busy nurturing some other race elsewhere in the multiverse. Their current project may even be helping the Forgotten to recover as a race.

draxynnic.3719:

pdavis.8031:

That may be the case, however it still does point to an older and different set of gods (i.e. pantheon) and would mean that the current 6 would be “copies” (in the loosest translation of the word and Melandru being an exemption) of that older pantheon.

Basically, at this point, all we really know for sure is that the gods can be replaced, and some of them (Abaddon, Grenth, heavily implied to be Balthazar) have been replaced. It’s possible that some of the gods are their initial incarnations, though, but it is also possible that they have all been replaced at some stage and Melandru is simply the one that changed the longest time ago.

I think we are basically saying the same thing, just in a different way. :P

Wanderer.3248:

The gods won’t be back because they don’t fit the game. Human gods in a game of mostly non-human races doesn’t work.

Well the theory proposed here is in fact that they might not be human gods anymore…
Of course I don’t see why not, the humans praise them, the charr dislike them (since they helped the humans to steal there homeland), the asura would find them fascinating, the norn would probably just go on praying to the wind or whatever. Just not sure how the Sylvari would fit in.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Honestly, I’m of the opinion that that’s the way it should be. These are gods, after all, and what separates a god from some very powerful being is that they are somehow beyond mortals- be it beyond mortal lifespan, beyond mortal powers, beyond mortal knowledge, beyond mortal comprehension, any will do, but the more you have, the more that makes them a god. When the defining trait is some sort of mysterious, nebulous “greater-than-thou”- usually referred to as divinity- categories and exact limits shouldn’t be applicable, or they go from being gods to some sort of natural (magical) phenomena, to be scientifically dismantled and filed away like all the rest. Once it’s gotten to that point, there’s really no point to having gods at all.

Yeah, the ambiguity is probably for the best.

narwhalsbend.7059:

purper dawn.2983:

6 gods..
6 dragons…
anyone?

That’s just coincidence. The Gods have changed frequently. In GW1 there were only five gods, for example. Kormir was just a blind woman that followed you around and threw spears.

Technically there was only 5 known gods… However it seems what defines someone was being a god is their ‘godly-essence’ which can be easily transferred to other being making them gods. Thus one can debate that there essence always exists and that there is always in some form or another 6 of gods (or more that we don’t know about). Unless they can mix-match-split…

CureForLiving.5360:

Well the theory proposed here is in fact that they might not be human gods anymore…
Of course I don’t see why not, the humans praise them, the charr dislike them (since they helped the humans to steal there homeland), the asura would find them fascinating, the norn would probably just go on praying to the wind or whatever. Just not sure how the Sylvari would fit in.

They wer enever really the “human gods” – they were worshipped by the Forgotten too, and potentially centaurs and naga at some point.

And off topic, but Ascalon was not a charr homeland. The charr conquered it and lost it in the very same generation – known by the fact that the charr united together under the Khan-Ur’s early reign, and under his reign conquered what’s now the Blood Legion Homelands on the map, and Ascalon (the Ecology of the Charr says they swept north, east and then south, meaning that they basically did an n shape around the Blazeridge Mountains), and they lost Ascalon because they became disconcerted after the Khan-Ur’s assassination (suspected to have been by humans).

CureForLiving.5360:

Technically there was only 5 known gods… However it seems what defines someone was being a god is their ‘godly-essence’ which can be easily transferred to other being making them gods. Thus one can debate that there essence always exists and that there is always in some form or another 6 of gods (or more that we don’t know about). Unless they can mix-match-split…

I wouldn’t say “killing a god and letting his power become unstable and threaten all reality” is exactly ‘easy’. It was, for Abaddon because he was chained down and we were supposedly blessed (though not shown mechanically, I enjoy the notion that the dancing easter egg removed the blessing which allowed Abaddon to one-shot the entire party with his mind).

As to “mix-match-split” – I kind of view Lyssa a case of divine essence splitting, being being depicted as always together, there may have been consequences if so.

I see I hit a weak point with mentioning more gods.

For the six, there is a lot listing that they came from the mists and may not be home in our Tyria. Interesting in their human shape and that they are referred as human gods.

The spirits of the wyld hold an interesting information. The owl has been slaughtered and we see basically now owls in the open world, except around the slaughterhouse and some in hoelbrack. I never heard that the eagle is a spirit, but I put him into the spiritworld, because there are some interesting observations. The eagle at all is missing from Tyria, he only appears in a risen version, but (and there is the tie to the owl) we see him in griffons just like the owl. The griffon at all is a fantasy mix creature in our normal world (don’t know if it’s equal in Tyria).
All this gives me the impression that those spirits hold the life energy/magic of a race. Those racial magic (kind of a race based maximum power level) can be consumed from other races (it’s happening quite often and explains why Owain was an achievement during LS1) mostly in form of newborn, eggs, etc.

known or referred spirits (just to start a list): bear, dolyak, minotaur, snow leopard, raven, wolf, wurm, owl, wolverine, hare, otter, griffon, eagle, gorilla (possible), ram (I’m sure I’ve seen one, but need to re-check)

For most of those spirits we know that there are animals equal shaped to the spirits and connected (the minotaur went mad as his spirit was attacked).

Those spirits are maybe hosts for the animal created from a greater power or they are the greatest power, but I think they may have creators themselfes.

Going from the spirits to the gods. The six are pretty much human shaped (represented by their statues), but that might be a represental form for the humans and open the question what they really look like.

The situation of those alien gods is basically unclear, since we just have some outer contact (boons, conjurations), but nothing directly. And even the pantheon is well mixed, since Grenth is known to be part god part mortal (and probably Tyrian). Mentioning more predecessors is interesting, but there is a gap in my informations (who is known to have one? grenth, balthazar, lyssa … more?). The parts of the story of Arah that I know hint that there might be an incorporation of the alien gods and the native, but why?

Dhuum and Abaddon may have been native gods, but there seems a higher informational gap at all.

The Grawl wrote on the plate of an old Balthazar statue (it’s really an old one) Baltaza and the Quaggan insist that Melaggan is not Melandru. The statues have changed from GW1 to GW2 showing that there was an influence to change/replace them (not just game design, some old ones are around).

side note: I know the Grawl worship any statue that is represented, but there is a pattern with other creatures, a pattern in statue design and there is a champion Grawl sculptor and his statue in EotM.

Back to Thrulln. I think his mentioning of the human discover is really related to the alien six pushing the humans through the mists to Tyria (alien gods brought the humans to Tyria matches, native gods that look alike the alien ones discover them).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

And off topic, but Ascalon was not a charr homeland. The charr conquered it and lost it in the very same generation – known by the fact that the charr united together under the Khan-Ur’s early reign, and under his reign conquered what’s now the Blood Legion Homelands on the map, and Ascalon (the Ecology of the Charr says they swept north, east and then south, meaning that they basically did an n shape around the Blazeridge Mountains), and they lost Ascalon because they became disconcerted after the Khan-Ur’s assassination (suspected to have been by humans).

Small point here but all we know is that it was under the last Khan-Ur that the charr lost Ascalon. We don’t know that there was only one Khan-Ur that took and then lost Ascalon. But if there was only one then that means that the entire “Golden Age” of charr dominance lasted less than one generation. I doubt any one would refer to less than one generation of prosperity as a Golden Age of an empire.

Actually, we do know that there was only one Khan-Ur, though there had been many attempts. We know this as it is said in different places that the first Khan-Ur’s children and the last Khan-Ur’s children formed the Four Legions upon the Khan-Ur’s death.

Horst Hortensie.5420:

The spirits of the wyld hold an interesting information. The owl has been slaughtered and we see basically now owls in the open world, except around the slaughterhouse and some in hoelbrack. I never heard that the eagle is a spirit, but I put him into the spiritworld, because there are some interesting observations. The eagle at all is missing from Tyria, he only appears in a risen version, but (and there is the tie to the owl) we see him in griffons just like the owl. The griffon at all is a fantasy mix creature in our normal world (don’t know if it’s equal in Tyria).

Um… no. There are a lot of eagles and owls all over the place, especially in the Shiverpeaks and parts of Kryta. They’re definitely not at any risk of dying out. You are right about the death of Owl affecting owls, though; according to one of the norn in Hoelbrak, they’ve all become more befuddled and less competent since the spirit was consumed. They do still exist, though.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Actually, we do know that there was only one Khan-Ur, though there had been many attempts. We know this as it is said in different places that the first Khan-Ur’s children and the last Khan-Ur’s children formed the Four Legions upon the Khan-Ur’s death.

Do you remember where the reference to the first Khan-Ur’s children was? I don’t believe I’ve seen that one.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Actually, we do know that there was only one Khan-Ur, though there had been many attempts. We know this as it is said in different places that the first Khan-Ur’s children and the last Khan-Ur’s children formed the Four Legions upon the Khan-Ur’s death.

Do you have a link that says the first Khan Urs children formed the High legions? All I know is a link that says it was the last.

I’m out if town on my phone so I cannot find the sources. Three sources I can think of outright was The Ecology of the Charr, Ghosts of Ascalon, a quiz event in Plains of Ashford (which has not been seen active since shortly after release – this event I recall seeing a mention of the first Ash Legion imperator was the first Khan-Ur’s spy master, though I may misremember but I got it screenshotted), and I believe a post-GoA interview with Jeff may mention the topic too.

I’ll be able to look for around a bit later tonight when I get my laptop.

Looked through what I could.

Event in question is this one. Sadly, extremely rare unknown trigger, and the screenshot from it (if I still have it) is on my desktop. The Ecology of the Charr just says “the Khan-Ur” throughout the article (which implies a single Khan-Ur, to me). Couldn’t find the interview, so it is possible I misremember. But I’m pretty sure I saw mention of sayingth e first Khan-Ur’s children formed the legions.

Hmm, only one of those I have access to is the ecology. While they do use the generic title of Khan-Ur through out, it seems to me that it is speaking to whichever one is active at the time of the events. Whether it be one of multiple or one total. There is mention specifically however, of the last Khan-Ur when mentioning the start of the High Legions. “No Charr knows how many cubs the last Khan-Ur sired”. I don’t know why they would have mentioned him being the last one if there was only ever one true Khan-Ur. especially since no mention of attemps to have another Khan-ur is made until later in the timeline.

The page on the Khan-Ur does say there was only one however. The possible source isn’t active but it is in conjunction with the interview that confirmed that humans assassinated the last one. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Khan-Ur Hopefully you have access to that interview. Iknow you were the first one I read that information from. It may confirm the number of Khan-Ur’s only being one, or it may confirm that it was only an assumption on a players part when they edited the article. The source is titled “Introducing Guild Wars 2’s Charr” from Gameplanet.