Guild Wars 2

DreamOfACure.4382:

Cause they plan to make kits scale with weapon damage too – Confirmed by a red post

Cmon, keep up, people! You’re all so behind the curve.

For every buff we received with the left hand we also received a nerf with the other hand so far, that seems to be the only balancing they are able to do. So better don´t expect this future-change to come without nerfs.

Moddo.7105:

I think the Dev who came up with 30% was thinking same thing so others in this post thought . That 3x grandaes whould cause 3x proc of a sigil. When infact this is impossable due to internal cooldowns. You would not even get back to back proc on throws. Only 1 proc per 3 throws at most. So not sure how sigils make nades 30% stronger.

^This.

LegoTechnic.5910:

Compare:

Engineer• The Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons.

Against

Ele• We see the elementalist as the king of versatility. The skill ceiling for the Ele is exceptional, as the ability to leverage all four attunements at the right time is crucial for understanding the elemetnalist. The Ele boasts some of the best team support and control abilities in the game, as well as some great area of effect damage.

^This.
(made me laugh and also made me really just want to go play PlanetSide 2 or AC3)

I also laugh, because otherwise i was going to cry. This can’t be serious.

One question… “after swapping to this weapon while in combat” sigils now work taking off kits?

CriSPeH.8512:

Orion the Cursed.1206:

Told you guys this would happen.

First you complain that Grenades are the only way to play, now you kitten that its not. You guys are making this game horrible with your constant whining.

Play a Thief or Warrior and the game wont be as bad.
The reason Grenades were considered the only way to play was because the profession set up basically forces you to use a kit. ANET states exactly that, MH weapons are weaker because of our kit options, to me that is ANET saying that the only viable way to play an Engineer is to play with a kit. Out of all the kits the grenades have the most appeal to the widest range of ppl.

Bomb kit is tricky to use and also looks stupid, just running around swinging your arm dropping terracotta pots on the ground.
EG is support.
FT is bugged.
Toolkit was difficult to use, then they patched it, now it is alot cooler but still difficult to use. (as much as I love TANKCAT, its also a gimmick build that is defeated when you fight someone smart enough not to kill themselves with confusion)

Grenades were just a love/hate thing with most ppl.
PPL have had nothing but negatives to say about turrets and yet those havent been touched at all.

They claim the class has versatility but that only counts in dungeons where you know what is coming. Unless you can tell the future in PvP you would have to run around with three kits to get the “versatility” they claim compensates for our weakness.

In the end Engineers just have to wait another few months or so untill ANET figures out what the hell they really want to do with this thrown together profession.

I play 5 characters, engineer is my main and i use it for pvp.

“They claim the class has versatility but that only counts in dungeons where you know what is coming. Unless you can tell the future in PvP you would have to run around with three kits to get the “versatility” they claim compensates for our weakness.”

Correct. Thats why i like Engineers. I always plan ahead. Some people here twist the meaning of versatility to “being good at everything”. The truth is versatility can also be about customization. I can focus on healing today and tanking tomorrow. Sometimes i do DPS. Thats what’s fun for me.

Anyway i pointed out last month based on me observation (before the announcement) that all the whining people want is to feel superior. They want buffs but are unhappy with corresponding nerfs. I also pointed that all kits will be scaled if they implement sigils to kits. (luckily only grenades skill 1 were affected). They said i was wrong and its about “customization”. Yet now when they can customize their kits, they are not satisfied.

I feel sorry for the engineers that built around grenades but for sure this was coming. Practically every engineer was using grenades instead of all the other possible kits or weapons.

I always joked that kit sigils would come at the cost of them nerfing our damage. I can’t believe they actually did this.

Orion the Cursed.1206:

CriSPeH.8512:

Orion the Cursed.1206:

Told you guys this would happen.

First you complain that Grenades are the only way to play, now you kitten that its not. You guys are making this game horrible with your constant whining.

Play a Thief or Warrior and the game wont be as bad.
The reason Grenades were considered the only way to play was because the profession set up basically forces you to use a kit. ANET states exactly that, MH weapons are weaker because of our kit options, to me that is ANET saying that the only viable way to play an Engineer is to play with a kit. Out of all the kits the grenades have the most appeal to the widest range of ppl.

Bomb kit is tricky to use and also looks stupid, just running around swinging your arm dropping terracotta pots on the ground.
EG is support.
FT is bugged.
Toolkit was difficult to use, then they patched it, now it is alot cooler but still difficult to use. (as much as I love TANKCAT, its also a gimmick build that is defeated when you fight someone smart enough not to kill themselves with confusion)

Grenades were just a love/hate thing with most ppl.
PPL have had nothing but negatives to say about turrets and yet those havent been touched at all.

They claim the class has versatility but that only counts in dungeons where you know what is coming. Unless you can tell the future in PvP you would have to run around with three kits to get the “versatility” they claim compensates for our weakness.

In the end Engineers just have to wait another few months or so untill ANET figures out what the hell they really want to do with this thrown together profession.

I play 5 characters, engineer is my main and i use it for pvp.

“They claim the class has versatility but that only counts in dungeons where you know what is coming. Unless you can tell the future in PvP you would have to run around with three kits to get the “versatility” they claim compensates for our weakness.”

Correct. Thats why i like Engineers. I always plan ahead. Some people here twist the meaning of versatility to “being good at everything”. The truth is versatility can also be about customization. I can focus on healing today and tanking tomorrow. Sometimes i do DPS. Thats what’s fun for me.

Anyway i pointed out last month based on me observation (before the announcement) that all the whining people want is to feel superior. They want buffs but are unhappy with corresponding nerfs. I also pointed that all kits will be scaled if they implement sigils to kits. (luckily only grenades skill 1 were affected). They said i was wrong and its about “customization”. Yet now when they can customize their kits, they are not satisfied.

So if I “customize” my weapon with a healing or end rune how does that make up for 30% dmg decrease? Or how can I add sigil to rifle to make up for loss of 30%.

Engineer
The Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons.

The above description envisions a dynamic versatility—one where the engineer can swap roles within the thick of combat based on what the situation requires. If only this were actually true, the engineer might not be one of the least popular classes in the game.

Sure, I can use lots of different kits inside of 1200 range. Unfortunately, all of them are woefully underpowered.

How am I supposed to achieve “extreme versatility” if I have to itemize for a particular role? The reality is that I have to choose my role before I even enter the fray. If I want to be a good support, I have to gear heavily for it. If I want to lay down a lot of heavy conditions, I have to gear for it. If I want to be able to control my enemies, I have to spec out of the traits/skills that allow me to kill them. If I want to be able to deal a respectable amount of damage, I have to spec out of the traits/skills that provide me with utility.

Even with grenades, I had to sacrifice some amount of survivability and healing just to get my damage on par with what other classes are putting out. These choices are built into my gear, skill, and trait selection.

Now, I’ll need to seriously re-evaluate that choice. It may be that I will need to change from my familiar role as a decent ranged damage dealer with occasional heals and crowd control—to the new role that ArenaNet has chosen for me:

Mediocrity.

Moddo.7105:

Orion the Cursed.1206:

CriSPeH.8512:

Orion the Cursed.1206:

Told you guys this would happen.

First you complain that Grenades are the only way to play, now you kitten that its not. You guys are making this game horrible with your constant whining.

Play a Thief or Warrior and the game wont be as bad.
The reason Grenades were considered the only way to play was because the profession set up basically forces you to use a kit. ANET states exactly that, MH weapons are weaker because of our kit options, to me that is ANET saying that the only viable way to play an Engineer is to play with a kit. Out of all the kits the grenades have the most appeal to the widest range of ppl.

Bomb kit is tricky to use and also looks stupid, just running around swinging your arm dropping terracotta pots on the ground.
EG is support.
FT is bugged.
Toolkit was difficult to use, then they patched it, now it is alot cooler but still difficult to use. (as much as I love TANKCAT, its also a gimmick build that is defeated when you fight someone smart enough not to kill themselves with confusion)

Grenades were just a love/hate thing with most ppl.
PPL have had nothing but negatives to say about turrets and yet those havent been touched at all.

They claim the class has versatility but that only counts in dungeons where you know what is coming. Unless you can tell the future in PvP you would have to run around with three kits to get the “versatility” they claim compensates for our weakness.

In the end Engineers just have to wait another few months or so untill ANET figures out what the hell they really want to do with this thrown together profession.

I play 5 characters, engineer is my main and i use it for pvp.

“They claim the class has versatility but that only counts in dungeons where you know what is coming. Unless you can tell the future in PvP you would have to run around with three kits to get the “versatility” they claim compensates for our weakness.”

Correct. Thats why i like Engineers. I always plan ahead. Some people here twist the meaning of versatility to “being good at everything”. The truth is versatility can also be about customization. I can focus on healing today and tanking tomorrow. Sometimes i do DPS. Thats what’s fun for me.

Anyway i pointed out last month based on me observation (before the announcement) that all the whining people want is to feel superior. They want buffs but are unhappy with corresponding nerfs. I also pointed that all kits will be scaled if they implement sigils to kits. (luckily only grenades skill 1 were affected). They said i was wrong and its about “customization”. Yet now when they can customize their kits, they are not satisfied.

So if I “customize” my weapon with a healing or end rune how does that make up for 30% dmg decrease? Or how can I add sigil to rifle to make up for loss of 30%.

For starters, my healing SIGIL rifle would be an improvement for my current EG and healing bomber.

Edit: Way to write before you think. Damage isn’t everything.

Before patch:
Attack 1 “Grenade” tooltip was 462 damage

After patch:
Attack 1 “Grenade” tooltip is now 301 damage

Very very dramatic changes…

DreamOfACure.4382:

epicsmooth.7825:

So nerf the only kit they buts eng on par with other classes…..makes sense.

Yeah, it does make sense:

Cause they plan to make kits scale with weapon damage too – Confirmed by a red post

Cmon, keep up, people! You’re all so behind the curve.

So why the heck did we get nerfed before this planned offset was even in place? I’m now certain Anet just likes to kitten everyone off.

I wouldn’t complain if they put the weapon stats in the bundle kit for this update.

The problem is they have “NOT” implemented the stats yet which makes the 30% dmg reduction a huge deal.

And 75 dmg for skill 3 grenade at 3100 atk? seems useless to me.

Grenade also has slow projectile speed which should be compensate by high damage since mob and player in pvp can dodge it easily unless you are using grenade at point blank which bomb is better at.

Grenade is also useless at high level in dealing damage without the trait that increase the grenade by one.

.5 to .33 in is 34% nerf in pve
.45 to .33 is a 27% nerf in spvp

g2 was buffed back up to .55 in spvp
g4 was buffed back up to .5 in spvp

And this point?
Grenade kit damage is now equal in PvP and PvE."

Previous patch (November, 15):
Grenade: This skill’s damage has been decreased by 10% in PvP only.
Shrapnel Grenade: This skill’s damage has been decreased by 15% in PvP only.
Freeze Grenade: This skill’s damage has been decreased by 10% in PvP only.
Grenade Barrage: This skill’s damage has been decreased by 10% in PvP only.

Banumiel.1926:

And this point?
Grenade kit damage is now equal in PvP and PvE."

Casia has it written above: grenade 1 is nerfed both in pve and s/tpvp – though less in pvp which makes grenades equal now in both pve and pvp

Casia.4281:

.5 to .33 in is 34% nerf in pve
.45 to .33 is a 27% nerf in spvp

g2 was buffed back up to .55 in spvp
g4 was buffed back up to .5 in spvp

Unfortunatly g#4 has a huge spread, with the mouse directly on target you will most likely only hit with 1-2 grenades.

Orion the Cursed.1206:

For starters, my healing SIGIL rifle would be an improvement for my current EG and healing bomber.

Edit: Way to write before you think. Damage isn’t everything.

Well than to be fair they should have nerfed the healing of the EG and Healing Bombs right???

Engineer•
The Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons.

Ele•
We see the elementalist as the king of versatility. The skill ceiling for the Ele is exceptional, as the ability to leverage all four attunements at the right time is crucial for understanding the elemetnalist. The Ele boasts some of the best team support and control abilities in the game, as well as some great area of effect damage

Indeed…

I could see the 30% reduction in PvP. But my level 20 eng will be suffering. I don’t waste money on sigils at any level below 80, so effectively PvE engi’s got a 30% dmg reduction with no benefit

LegoTechnic.5910:

Coltz.5617:

calm down people, what if the sigil effects apply to each grenade being thrown? then 30% is perfectly reasonable..

Sigils with proc effects have internal cooldowns so they can’t fire more than once every two seconds or so meaning multi-hit grenades gain no benefit other than ease of application, similar to how they eat up all three incendiary ammo charges but only cause a single burn.

Sigils with passive effects like force’s +5% damage are unaffected, but then… that’s just +5% damage.

On the other hand, since weapon stats still have no bearing whatsoever on your kits you can feel free to use a pistol/shield or pistol/pistol to maybe stack up to two sigils. That could be a little nicer, assuming the offhand weapon’s still apply. Would kind of suck for rifle users, though. If both weapon sigils apply, then every kit engineer out there will probably want to dual-wield for now.

Also did you notice most weapons get a holiday skin in the notes, but not rifle? At least there will be Christmas pistols. :-x

increasing chances of activation would really help since you have 3x’s the chance to activate it.

Ranger Shortbow is god now

CriSPeH.8512:

Orion the Cursed.1206:

For starters, my healing SIGIL rifle would be an improvement for my current EG and healing bomber.

Edit: Way to write before you think. Damage isn’t everything.

Well than to be fair they should have nerfed the healing of the EG and Healing Bombs right???

Yes, that was what i thought(feared) would happen. Yes, i’m glad it didn’t happen.

Now you have more incentive to use the other kits, which is what a lot of engineers wanted according to last 3 weeks to posts.

I always assumed that the tradeoff for high damage with grenades was that all 5 attacks were time delayed AOE’s, i.e. you sometimes miss completely if your target moves a lot like in WvW. A 30% drop in damage makes me wonder if the developers forgot about this part of the build.

Tekyn.5376:

I always assumed that the tradeoff for high damage with grenades was that all 5 attacks were time delayed AOE’s, i.e. you sometimes miss completely if your target moves a lot like in WvW. A 30% drop in damage makes me wonder if the developers forgot about this part of the build.

The trade off is because people here “claimed” that they are willing to sacrifice damage for Sigil effects in Kits.

In truth, if this does turn out to be a large nerf, then Grenade Kit use will drop. If this is truly is the only viable build, the engineer log-on count will drop; dollars-to-donuts Anet tracks these numbers and will buff the class if this happens.

Grenades are too easy to use at lower skill levels (static targets), but take a much higher skill level to use effectively in the harder dungeons (e.g., Fractals +30) where you’re moving and dodging constantly (steering and reticle-aiming at the same time while watching for tells does require higher skill level). I would happily trade the damage nerf for a lock-on aim for grenades.

Voltaire.8369:

In truth, if this does turn out to be a large nerf, then Grenade Kit use will drop. If this is truly is the only viable build, the engineer log-on count will drop; dollars-to-donuts Anet tracks these numbers and will buff the class if this happens.

Grenades are too easy to use at lower skill levels (static targets), but take a much higher skill level to use effectively in the harder dungeons (e.g., Fractals +30) where you’re moving and dodging constantly (steering and reticle-aiming at the same time while watching for tells does require higher skill level). I would happily trade the damage nerf for a lock-on aim for grenades.

A lock-on aim or a larger target area, i.e. for when you use grenades in WvW against other players who can tell you are throwing grenades.

Wait, so now let me get this straight. All our other kits dmg still sucks right? Flamethrower still aims odd, bombs radius still messy, basically every kit that sucked before still sucks? Just..now we’re balanced…so all of our dmg sucks? Super.

Orion the Cursed.1206:

CriSPeH.8512:

Well than to be fair they should have nerfed the healing of the EG and Healing Bombs right???

Yes, that was what i thought(feared) would happen. Yes, i’m glad it didn’t happen.

Now you have more incentive to use the other kits, which is what a lot of engineers wanted according to last 3 weeks to posts.

They didn’t give people more incentive to use the other kits, they gave them less incentive to use the grenade kit. I think what a lot of engineers were hoping for was a buff to the other kits. The sigil bonus change is a start, but that’s all it is.

Some of us actually like using grenades. We get that you aren’t one of those people. Just because the nerf didn’t affect your own personal playstyle doesn’t give you the right to attack the people who were affected.

Also please note this:

Quote:
Here are some additional notes, describing some of the balance changes and why we made these changes in various aspects of the game.

General balance

Engineer Kit Sigils. The Engineer now benefits from the sigils on their weapons when they swap to a kit. So, this means that you will have the ability to get sigil procs on your Flame Thrower, or Grenade Kit, etc. This means we had to tone down some of the kits accordingly, the biggest of which was the Grenade kit.
Engineer Grenade Kit Changes. We didn’t want to totally take away the power of this kit, but when it is able to proc sigil abilities, it becomes very strong due to its powerful AOE nature. So we’ve toned down this kit a little due to the sigils now working on engineer kits.

From here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/999226

Basically that means they didn’t only touch grenade kit. gg

Pannonica.5378:

Also please note this:

Quote:
Here are some additional notes, describing some of the balance changes and why we made these changes in various aspects of the game.

General balance

Engineer Kit Sigils. The Engineer now benefits from the sigils on their weapons when they swap to a kit. So, this means that you will have the ability to get sigil procs on your Flame Thrower, or Grenade Kit, etc. This means we had to tone down some of the kits accordingly, the biggest of which was the Grenade kit.
Engineer Grenade Kit Changes. We didn’t want to totally take away the power of this kit, but when it is able to proc sigil abilities, it becomes very strong due to its powerful AOE nature. So we’ve toned down this kit a little due to the sigils now working on engineer kits.

From here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/999226

Basically that means they didn’t only touch grenade kit. gg

Other classes can use sigils WITHOUT a damage reduction. We had no sigils for our kits at all. Suddenly, giving us sigils warrants reducing damage of our base grenade skill by 30%?

And considering the cooldown on these sigils, and that many only work on critical, do they really make up the lost damage?

EDIT: Misread the last sentence of your post. I apologise for the belligerent tone of my post.

Did they even fix short fuse which they broke in the last nerf?

Raijinn.9065:

Did they even fix short fuse which they broke in the last nerf?

No.

Drop Bear, yeah. I just quoted this because it hints at hidden nerfs to the other kits as well.

Coltz.5617:

LegoTechnic.5910:

Coltz.5617:

calm down people, what if the sigil effects apply to each grenade being thrown? then 30% is perfectly reasonable..

Sigils with proc effects have internal cooldowns so they can’t fire more than once every two seconds or so meaning multi-hit grenades gain no benefit other than ease of application, similar to how they eat up all three incendiary ammo charges but only cause a single burn.

Sigils with passive effects like force’s +5% damage are unaffected, but then… that’s just +5% damage.

On the other hand, since weapon stats still have no bearing whatsoever on your kits you can feel free to use a pistol/shield or pistol/pistol to maybe stack up to two sigils. That could be a little nicer, assuming the offhand weapon’s still apply. Would kind of suck for rifle users, though. If both weapon sigils apply, then every kit engineer out there will probably want to dual-wield for now.

Also did you notice most weapons get a holiday skin in the notes, but not rifle? At least there will be Christmas pistols. :-x

increasing chances of activation would really help since you have 3x’s the chance to activate it.

You still only get a single proc on a single enemy. In order to justify a 30% damage decrease, we’d need to be able to proc once per enemy hit, IMO.

As an example, because of internal cooldowns, the most we can proc a lightning strike or flame blast is once every 10 seconds. Due to the AoE nature of grenades, we likely will be proccing these effects exactly once every 10 seconds, assuming we have a high crit chance.

The thing is, every other class can do that. Anyone with 50+% chance to crit will be able to proc a lightning or flame blast attack every time the internal cooldown finishes. We don’t have a significant advantage just because grenades are AoE.

In fact, they are a much smaller AoE than many other classes get. Many AoE attacks from other classes deal more damage than grenades, hit more reliably, and have larger areas of effect. I don’t see any of those attacks being nerfed by 1/3rd their previous damage output, and they’ve always worked with sigils.

I mean, do the devs think that we’re the only class that gets an AoE auto-attack? If so, I have news for them. Most weapons in the game have auto-attacks which hit multiple targets, either a cone in front of the player, splash around your target, or piercing. Grenades weren’t unique in this regard, nor were they the most devastatingly powerful weapon. In reality, they are the hardest weapon in the game to hit with reliably, but that doesn’t seem to have been taken into account at all.

-Travail.

Pannonica.5378:

Raijinn.9065:

Did they even fix short fuse which they broke in the last nerf?

No.

Drop Bear, yeah. I just quoted this because it hints at hidden nerfs to the other kits as well.

OMG sorry I was annoyed and I misread your last sentence.

I thought you said “they didn’t touch grenades, gg”, instead of “they didn’t only touch grenades, gg”

This game truly is becoming a joke. My favorite was AN’s post on class design and thieves. They WANT thieves to be able to 1 shot people and get away accordingly. Engineers are just as squishy as thieves last I checked, thieves being medium armor and all.

My mesmer is full tough vit exotic gear and build, and was 2 shot by a stealthed thief a few nights ago. When I forgo any form of damage in my build and gear, and go for straight survivability and a thief can 2 shot 28k health…something is wrong.

I really had high hopes for this game but it seems every patch makes it worse.

I rly dont know why they reduce dmg from Nades and kits… its sick..

My nades before patch with my build deal around 700 = 2100 but like all now mobs can easly avoid it when running and not every time all nades hit target – small radius.

Anyway… atm with my build air sigil and fire sigil deal aroun 1,2k dmg.

Many other classes have bigger single dmg – check warriors :P – and do if faster – even auto attack – than my nade, when i stand around 1000 from target almost all classes attack 2-3x times faster than me.

So they dmg still the same, now my nades deal around 400 crit dmg … my sigils can’t help me.. event if i stuck 25x power..
but wait.. all other classes can do the same.. but before patch have better aoe skills than engi have from his nads. And still engi lost all weapon stats when using kits so still his dmg sux – PvE.

My #1 skill from nades have 247 dmg with 3008 attack…. ANet u kidding with this 30% nerf for pvp and 40-45% nerf on PvE…. great.. Ty for making engi more useless…

ATM all kits sux for me… time to back on my necro or elem.

Signed, was leveling an engineer in hopes of bringing another profession aside from a berserker GS war into dungeons. Now it seems that no other builds can complete against wars for raw dmg.

How disappointing, why need PvE dmg? Where engineers in a position where general PvE content was trivialized by grenades? Same (albeit a bit late) goes for the nerf to Pistol Whip ages ago.

Engineer is pretty pathetic now in the damage area. Sad oh well my ranger and guardian got some love and my weak engineer got the nerf bat from hell.

I might actually play my engineer now. Before I felt if I wasn’t doing grenades, I wasn’t doing what I optimally could be doing (in PvE), and grenade spamming just isn’t fun.

Personally I like this change, grenades were completely overpowered, and now I can go p/p condition build and never look back.

Im waking up. Having m y morning coffee. I red this topic and went back to bed for a moment then back to computer and read it again. Im speechless. Anet just destroyed one profession. I have only played engineer from beta 1 and decided its my only toon becoz its differs alot from other usual professions in gaming. Now it really does. Say this is just bad dream.

I mean seriously grenade power wasnt op at any point! Comparing what other professions can do insta kills and sigils work fine.. i mean wtff im readin!?!?!?!?

Einherjar.6709:

I might actually play my engineer now. Before I felt if I wasn’t doing grenades, I wasn’t doing what I optimally could be doing (in PvE), and grenade spamming just isn’t fun.

Personally I like this change, grenades were completely overpowered, and now I can go p/p condition build and never look back.

Cool story bro.
Every other prof can outperform your “versatility” if you werent aware.

Performing “optimally” as an engineer requires FAR more busywork than any other prof and should be compensated accordingly. Grenades takes more skill than then entire warrior prof combined, yet a 30% damage nerf to its red circle spam kinda makes it not very intimidating to other players, and have fun taking 40 grenades to kill a mob in cursed shore.

Einherjar.6709:

I might actually play my engineer now. Before I felt if I wasn’t doing grenades, I wasn’t doing what I optimally could be doing (in PvE), and grenade spamming just isn’t fun.

Personally I like this change, grenades were completely overpowered, and now I can go p/p condition build and never look back.

Too bad ur dps is third of the other profs. haven fun though. Weird logic u have there.

While this looks drastic nerf Im not sure that overall dps actually suffers that much, tier1 bleeding was upped from 6% to 15%, other grenades got initial damage as well, sigils (propably can get effect of 2 sigils with dual wielding), HGH changes makes might stacking easier&faster.

Vulnerability stacking on mobs is still there which makes grenades still best option for groups as no matter what dps engi can do 15% more damage for 4 other people or even more outweights any other options by far.

End result is still most likely less than what it is now but looks that other engi choices aren’t that subpar anymore which is good.

Crows.2764:

While this looks drastic nerf Im not sure that overall dps actually suffers that much, tier1 bleeding was upped from 6% to 15%, other grenades got initial damage as well, sigils (propably can get effect of 2 sigils with dual wielding), HGH changes makes might stacking easier&faster.

Vulnerability stacking on mobs is still there which makes grenades still best option for groups as no matter what dps engi can do 15% more damage for 4 other people or even more outweights any other options by far.

End result is still most likely less than what it is now but looks that other engi choices aren’t that subpar anymore which is good.

How are they not as subpar now? Because of sigils alone? Pass me some of that good stuff you have.

Confirming that my flamethrower now outdamages my grenades.

Anet… please measure FT kit vs ANY OTHER CLASS for me and tell me what’s wrong here?

so i went for this so called super buff might stackin. Thats just horrible button smashing and after smashed elixirs all the long my nades each -15% of their old damage. I hate might stackin for sure. haha merry christmas all

I hope they include our weapon stats very soon I don’t think grenades are that overpowered, I often visit class forum and I never saw anyone complain about them It’s already very hard to hit moving targets :/ Anyway, you can nerf Engi to oblivion, i will stick with my engi!

Engineers 4ever