Guild Wars 2

Hi,
I’m just curious, what you all think of using Runes of Tormenting with Sigil of Torment?

I don’t like either of them.

Perplexity Runes if you want the OP runes
Traveler Runes if you want to keep up with your group (my favourite runes).

Prefer Sigil of Battle as well.

Perplexity is the way to go rune wise, however Sigil wise I have just changed to Tormenting recently, and have no regrets, your precision will be high with rabid armor to allow consistant procs, 1 vs many, the AoE Torment is awesome especially with our high in combat manoeuvrability.

I haven’t had much experience using the torment rune, but I have changed the corruption stacks on the torch for a sigil of doom just because I dislike warriors and their op “I can out heal 7 bleed stacks with my kitten signet” healing signet =p and the poison always helms as I don’t really have that much access too it.

But yeah perplexity runes are great, even without getting to use the 6th bonus much at all XD, which is funny, because if they ever nerf it and give the 6th an ICD it wont even change anything for this build and ill just keep on rolling forward =p

So, I have a mesmer that was lying at the char screen and I decided to completely dedicate him to WvW. I must say….very happy so far. I use the blackwater build with somewhat hybrid equipment right know. I am runing rabid gear with only my 2nd weapon set being sword/sword a berserker stats, rest of equipment is rabid.(precision/toughness/condi dmg) Now to my question, lets consider I would want to use the following peaces of weapons: sword, scepter, torch, *maybe focus.
What would you do, what stas would the weaponry have?
→ sword/sword + scepter/torch; sword/torch + scepter+focus, something else?
thnx

Id recommend going over and having a look at Osi’s condi cat build, and perhaps asking him a few questions about it (his version uses a sword/focus in there if I can remember correctly) as I am of the opinion sword is kind of worthless being in a condition build as it is a power weapon through and through.

As for the focus, I can’t see myself taking it over a torch or staff, unless I’m swapping it out for a few seconds of swiftness before swapping back, the pull is nice but not much use unless you are throwing people off cliffs =p and the warden, while useful against ranged builds, is lacklustre as far as I’m concerned in a condition build as he stands still and becomes useless if they move away, and as my power is non-existent the damage is pretty low as well.

for the people asking about torment runes and sigil. i have been use them for the past few days with s/p and scep/torch. its def not as tanky as staff but it seems to down most melee classes real quick

http://youtu.be/bDbt7YgMQeI

vid of me trying the torment stuff

and the build im trying out

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgEQRArf8alwzKoHTzoGb9IipHBnvBckUUavWJF42FC-jkCBINDimWAikGgEJ05QFRjtuuIasqbYqURWHTI1HIySBAzaA-w

it seems to work well for conditions but your main damage will be torment and bleed. not alot of confusion

please give me some feed back so i know where to go for here. all constructive criticism is appreciated

Is the 20 in domination really worth it when you could get 200 condi dmg and illusionary elasticity? With the extra bounce considered your overall condition dps goes up by almost 25 percent, likely to be even higher when you consider that you attack faster than your clones. In addition to that you get afreebie 6x confusion shatter and extra confusion duration thrown in.

Is that really worth less than 20 percent cd on torch and the measly condi removal?

fadeaway.2807:

Is the 20 in domination really worth it when you could get 200 condi dmg and illusionary elasticity? With the extra bounce considered your overall condition dps goes up by almost 25 percent, likely to be even higher when you consider that you attack faster than your clones. In addition to that you get afreebie 6x confusion shatter and extra confusion duration thrown in.

Is that really worth less than 20 percent cd on torch and the measly condi removal?

20 in domination provides many things.

• 20% increased condition duration
• Crippling dissipation (one of the basic qualities of this build)
• Condition removal on torch
• Decreased cooldown on access to a stealth

20 in illusion provides very little.

• 200 Condition damage
• ….that’s it

Extra bounce doesn’t work on clones, and that’s not the main condition dps of this build anyway, in addition to being inconsistent. If you shatter in this build, you’re playing it wrong unless you’re shattering for an interrupt or defensively. For that reason, shatter cooldown doesn’t matter, and neither does confusion on shatter.

I’m inclined to agree with you after considering your thoughts, but I think you’re underselling the illusion line. You get 6 stacks of confusion from cry of frustration and +33% confusion duration. That’s nothing to sneer at. I’m not saying you should be shattering all the time, but this build has a large amount of clone generation, inevitably you will be faced with a use em or lose em scenario at some point.

If illusionary elasticity fails, then yeah.. 20% duration > 200 condition damage. But (and I’m not certain about this) if the targetting of winds of chaos works as I think it does, then even if you’re 1200 yards away, as long as one of your illusions is within 600 yards then it should hit the target, bounce to the illusion, then bounce back to the target. You lose a very minor amount of dps for the illusions (their crit bleed and winds of chaos bleed goes from 8 to 7 with veggie pizza, but they get an extra 200 condition damage) but your own dps more than doubles. On paper, it works out higher.

But like you said, domination does have some very strong things going for it.

One more question. Why all the love for perplexity runes? I haven’t used them on any character so far, so you’ll have to excuse me. But wouldn’t torment sigil and torment runes be pretty kitten here?

That measly condition removal from Torch is all I use.

Perplexity Runes are strong, even stronger on other classes. They actually need to be nerfed. I would use them if I didn’t like Traveler’s so much.

New torment sigil worth much or just earth works better.

Pyroatheist.9031:

fadeaway.2807:

Is the 20 in domination really worth it when you could get 200 condi dmg and illusionary elasticity? With the extra bounce considered your overall condition dps goes up by almost 25 percent, likely to be even higher when you consider that you attack faster than your clones. In addition to that you get afreebie 6x confusion shatter and extra confusion duration thrown in.

Is that really worth less than 20 percent cd on torch and the measly condi removal?

20 in domination provides many things.

• 20% increased condition duration
• Crippling dissipation (one of the basic qualities of this build)
• Condition removal on torch
• Decreased cooldown on access to a stealth

20 in illusion provides very little.

• 200 Condition damage
• ….that’s it

Extra bounce doesn’t work on clones, and that’s not the main condition dps of this build anyway, in addition to being inconsistent. If you shatter in this build, you’re playing it wrong unless you’re shattering for an interrupt or defensively. For that reason, shatter cooldown doesn’t matter, and neither does confusion on shatter.

Pyro is right about the 20 in illusions being essentially worthless. However, you can put them in Inspiration instead for +200 vitality, healing, and condition (with scepter). Or 10/20/30/10/0 if you want to keep crippling dissipation. There are a couple builds out there that use these instead of the 20/20/30.

Personally, I’m looking forward to running a 0/20/30/20/0 once the update arrives.

Bunda.2691:

Pyroatheist.9031:

fadeaway.2807:

Is the 20 in domination really worth it when you could get 200 condi dmg and illusionary elasticity? With the extra bounce considered your overall condition dps goes up by almost 25 percent, likely to be even higher when you consider that you attack faster than your clones. In addition to that you get afreebie 6x confusion shatter and extra confusion duration thrown in.

Is that really worth less than 20 percent cd on torch and the measly condi removal?

20 in domination provides many things.

• 20% increased condition duration
• Crippling dissipation (one of the basic qualities of this build)
• Condition removal on torch
• Decreased cooldown on access to a stealth

20 in illusion provides very little.

• 200 Condition damage
• ….that’s it

Extra bounce doesn’t work on clones, and that’s not the main condition dps of this build anyway, in addition to being inconsistent. If you shatter in this build, you’re playing it wrong unless you’re shattering for an interrupt or defensively. For that reason, shatter cooldown doesn’t matter, and neither does confusion on shatter.

Pyro is right about the 20 in illusions being essentially worthless. However, you can put them in Inspiration instead for +200 vitality, healing, and condition (with scepter). Or 10/20/30/10/0 if you want to keep crippling dissipation. There are a couple builds out there that use these instead of the 20/20/30.

Personally, I’m looking forward to running a 0/20/30/20/0 once the update arrives.

I’ve actually been trying that build out right now. It’s definitely interesting. Losing the cooldown for the prestige produces some awkward moments for sure, and you don’t really notice how much that perma-cripple matters until it’s gone.

That being said, you can get some HIGH condition damage by traiting the scepter, and once you can trait for mantra cooldowns in dueling adept and take mender’s purity, you’ll have some very strong condition removal.

fadeaway.2807:

I’m inclined to agree with you after considering your thoughts, but I think you’re underselling the illusion line. You get 6 stacks of confusion from cry of frustration and +33% confusion duration. That’s nothing to sneer at. I’m not saying you should be shattering all the time, but this build has a large amount of clone generation, inevitably you will be faced with a use em or lose em scenario at some point.

If illusionary elasticity fails, then yeah.. 20% duration > 200 condition damage. But (and I’m not certain about this) if the targetting of winds of chaos works as I think it does, then even if you’re 1200 yards away, as long as one of your illusions is within 600 yards then it should hit the target, bounce to the illusion, then bounce back to the target. You lose a very minor amount of dps for the illusions (their crit bleed and winds of chaos bleed goes from 8 to 7 with veggie pizza, but they get an extra 200 condition damage) but your own dps more than doubles. On paper, it works out higher.

I’ve been running 0/20/30/0/20 for quite some time now with Staff + Scepter/torch in WvW and it’s very very fun to play with the extra stacks of confusion and might on shatter allowing for greater flexibility in increasing condi dps/output. You just need to shatter opportunistically to boost confusion burst depending on opponent actions. The extra 200 condition damage + 33% confusion duration + extra staff/image bounce are also great additions. I’ve always found Null Field to be enough condi cleanse, especially when you have so much in-combat mobility with stealth + staff anyway.

Just an update,

• I have touched up on the introduction and write up, it should now have better spacing and be easier to read/navigate.

• I have also posted up my guardian build “The Traveling Guardian” found here feel free to go have a look at that if you also play a guardian and may be on the lookout for a new WvW/PvE build that has nice damage and survivability/support.

Still works. Thank you.

May be a stupid question but why pair the scepter with the torch, and the Sword with the Pistol?
Using Scepter/Pistol are both ranged, and the Sword/Torch are both close range (sword flurry then invisible to burn is great).

Just tying to see motive.
Thanks

Not a stupid question, and I use a staff+sceptre/torch, so no sword/pistol for me, but I guess its just personal preference as to what weapons you use in each hand.

Thanks to Natsu for this build, a PvP version of which I’m currently running in duels as I attempt to learn this class.

It’s fun because you need to stay on your toes, and because I love when warriors come raging at me and hit a block and then limp off to deal with all the torment stacks. It seems to make short work of some very aggressive players.

Against defensive players it’s a different matter. Just went around in circles with a guardian for oh 10 minutes before we agreed to call it a draw. If the opponent has good defense and especially good condition removal, doesn’t seem to be much way to take them down.

Just the way the build is? Or am I playing it wrong? Or is there an adjustment to be made to deal with such?

Thanks.

I use a build based on Blackwater in WvW, the poison from sigil of doom helps when up against more tanky builds

Thanks. My guess is that in general the ability to pump up condition damage more in WvW than PvP also has an effect. I’ve noticed this in other areas as well, which I guess is why people warn me not to test WvW stuff in PvP. I do it anyway because it’s a lot easier and cheaper to swap stuff around but need to remember the differences…

Being new to the game, and I’ve just lvl’ed up a mesmer, wondering if you can advise on what beginner gears I need to use this build.
I’m not sure on my play style yet but this sounds like a good build to suit me starting out and learn. So far I’ve been using the GS and sw/focus combo. Everyone says use GS but I find that I’m mostly at mid range so get low DPS from GS #1.
I like staff at this range wih close in bounces doing dmg. I dont like shatters because I find it hard to keep track of where they are & what they’re doing.

Doing a lot of reading & learning but I’m literally starting with a blank sheet, not much gold to get gears.

I like PvE/Dung runs at this stage. Very little WvW/PvP.

Any help appreciated, thanks.

Do you intend to roam in WvW, Zerg in WvW, or PvE/Dungeons? depending what you plan on doing will affect what gear sets/builds you would need/find more useful.

Without knowing this, I could recommend getting a full set of rabid armour/trinkets if you wanted to give this build a go for roaming, and also a berserkers set of armour/trinkets, for all the PvE/Dungeons that you want to do. Same goes for the weapons you need for each set, a long with which runes/sigils you prefer.

As I have very little gear I need to do lots of dung / event / champ runs to start farming for equip & gold. Also will start doing some WvW to learn. Don’t always play at right time so I rarely find zergs in WvW though.

Thanks

Sepahbod.4653:

It ok in Dungeons, but the great thing with this 20/20/30 build is that just by switching gear to power/knight and changing a few traits it will become a decent power build.

This is a comment from a month ago but it would be helpful to me (and likely many others) if someone could explain how to do this conversion? I’m considering going with a Blackwater build for WvW but want something viable for dungeons as well.

As an aside (though still on-topic for this thread) what’s a good way for a newbie to acquire rabid armor such as used in this build? Thanks.

Farm dungeon tokens, buy off TP (Khilbrons Set), visit vendor in WvW and spend Badges of Honor or alternatively go to karma vendor in Orr.

Thanks. Those are all things I could do only once (at least for a while) so I’ll have to make sure I really want to go this route first. I really need a build I can use for PvE as well so I’d love to hear how people adjust this build for that if possible.

This still viable? also it says it works in pve is this true like its viable in dungeons and exploration?

Yes this build is very viable. I run the same basic build in WvW and sPvP. It took me awhile to get used to it but it was worth the patience.

The changes to my build vs the posted are:
-Sigil on energy on both greatsword and sword
-Sigil of purity on pistol
-Mirror instead of Ether Feast
-Debilitating Dissipation instead of Master of Manipulation

Almost all of my changes are focused on enhancing condition removal and clone generation. With 2 sigils of Energy you should basically always have a dodge available. Sigil of purity should nearly always proc off of its’ ICD and give you an additional 6 conditions removed per minute. I like Debilitating Dissipation for the additional condition pressure on opponents vs. the decrease on Blink’s cooldown.

I have also experimented with Sigil of Strength over Sigil of Battle since the build’s crit chance along with the clones should allow Sigil of Strength to successfully proc quite often. I haven’t used it long enough to determine whether I like it more than Sigil of Battle.

All-in-all, this really is a great build and should remain viable for quite awhile. Thanks for posting BlackDevil!

^perhaps you posted in the wrong build thread there phatal?

Either way, I wouldn’t really recommend using a Greatsword/sword with this build, as my build is a condition build, and Greatsword/sword are power weapons.

Any and all builds can be viable in PvE, but most wont do as well as some of the optimal builds such as the phantasm builds established. thus, this condition build will work in PvE it just wont be very good, and will take a while to kill things.

Have you attempted to use it for PVE Natsu? If so, please share your thoughts and analysis using it in Fractals & dungeons etc. It cannot be that marginally weaker for PVE… but what do I know?

I’ve worked on my Rabid set including ascended items; I just wouldn’t wanna grind for a berserker set for PVE (shatter spec) if I don’t have to :/

I have actually tested this now in dungeons and in general pve exploration and must say that Natsu no offense but you are incorrect. Things take a matter of seconds to die. Also I walk away from vet mobs with almost full health so the survivability plus the dps is such a nice mix. I have run 4 Ac’s p1 and p3 twice each and no group has complained and I have in some cases been the only one not to go down.

Although in instances such as ac is concerned where I can see that ice bow usage is affected as this build with rabid gear has no real power to speak of direct damage wise thus I do not see the full effects of usage of such things as if someone in full berserkers. I however enjoy a game where everyone is not pigeon holed in to using 1 class of armor and 1 weapon sheerly because it is easier and the so called preferred method.

mikeew.8607:

I have actually tested this now in dungeons and in general pve exploration and must say that Natsu no offense but you are incorrect. Things take a matter of seconds to die. Also I walk away from vet mobs with almost full health so the survivability plus the dps is such a nice mix. I have run 4 Ac’s p1 and p3 twice each and no group has complained and I have in some cases been the only one not to go down.

Although in instances such as ac is concerned where I can see that ice bow usage is affected as this build with rabid gear has no real power to speak of direct damage wise thus I do not see the full effects of usage of such things as if someone in full berserkers. I however enjoy a game where everyone is not pigeon holed in to using 1 class of armor and 1 weapon sheerly because it is easier and the so called preferred method.

Natsu is absolutely correct. This build will kill things quite easily, and you will walk away at quite high hp. However, you will do several times less damage than with a zerker phantasm build, and that’s simply a fact.

with the upcomming balance patch and the things we know so far, would you switch out any of the traids/gear?

Aelle.1723:

Have you attempted to use it for PVE Natsu? If so, please share your thoughts and analysis using it in Fractals & dungeons etc. It cannot be that marginally weaker for PVE… but what do I know?

I’ve worked on my Rabid set including ascended items; I just wouldn’t wanna grind for a berserker set for PVE (shatter spec) if I don’t have to :/

All condition builds are terrible for PvE. Use Berserker for PvE, dungeons and Fractals. As well, Shatter isn’t nearly as good for PvE as a Phantasm build (e.g. 10/30/0/20/10).

Use this build in www but having a hard time with some zerker thieves that almost two shots me, forcing me to stealth all the time which means that scepter 3 will be rendered useless. Any one having similar problems?

@ Sala, I haven’t really taken a good look, but I doubt I would be moving any traits around much, ill let you know when I’m up tomorrow and can give it a good read.

I haven’t read the whole topic so maybe someone asked this already but is this build good in zergs v zerg as well? I have most trouble being really useful in zergs dps wise and sometimes hard to get tags as well.

Notimik.3589:

Use this build in www but having a hard time with some zerker thieves that almost two shots me, forcing me to stealth all the time which means that scepter 3 will be rendered useless. Any one having similar problems?

This is a very strong build vs thieves. To play against a thief, it’s all about timing when they will hit you from stealth. Scepter #2 block will often down a thief right away but to use Scepter #3, use your blink to get distance.

When the stealth, wait 2 seconds then stealth yourself. Try to keep 3 illusions up close together and stay close to your illusions. Dodging with 3 illusions up will put a ton of damage on your opponent as your illusion dies.

If invisible, just before you pop out, drop a chaos storm at your feet and on top of your illusions. This will make it very hard for the thief to CnD or damage you.

The only hard time you might have is if they pop Thieves Guild when trying to get a Torment block on the thief rather than their minion makes it a little more difficult.

Honestly, the PU guild is very strong against thieves. There is even a thread in the thieves forum complaining about this build.

The good news is, you have the build, you just need a little more practice.

glenndevis.8327:

I haven’t read the whole topic so maybe someone asked this already but is this build good in zergs v zerg as well? I have most trouble being really useful in zergs dps wise and sometimes hard to get tags as well.

Mesmers themselves aren’t really that strong in zergs compared to other classes. We bring utility but you won’t see as many loot bags as other classes will.

This build allows you to get in, do some damage and then get out. I like to use Torch to stealth in, quickly switch to staff and drop a chaos storm at my feet then the blast finisher will do AoE Burning plus give Chaos Armor to allies then use Blink to get out. I always use Blink to get out rather than get in.

If you want a pure zerg build where you stay with the zerg (because the zerg build is terrible 1v1 or small groups), then look up the Triforce build.

glenndevis.8327:

I haven’t read the whole topic so maybe someone asked this already but is this build good in zergs v zerg as well? I have most trouble being really useful in zergs dps wise and sometimes hard to get tags as well.

In WvW just switch to a 20/0/0/20/30 glamour build for maximum tagging potential.

Thinking of running this build, got a question regarding armor runes:

What is better between-

6x Superior Rune of the Traveler

or

6x Superior Rune of the Centaur

Is the power on the centaurs usless in the blackwater build?

Which is actually better for swift?
-Travelers is always up but only 25%speed..
-Centaurs is 33%speed.. and can be punched every 20seconds, but how long does it last for (+20% swiftness duration from Centaurs, and +30% boon from Chaos traited to 30…. how is this calculated?)

Lastly, if I put a sigil of Purity on my Septre and a sigil of Blood on my torch.. do I get a chance to loose a condition AND gain health on every crit?

Travellers will be 100x more useful then centaur, as centaur runes offer nothing to the build other then swiftness at the cost of wasting your heal (hell, Id go as far as to say travelers were at least equal to perplexity, depending if you wanted faster out of combat movement, or more confusion and condition pressure). At least travellers offer condition duration, condition damage and a bit of all round stats as opposed to centaurs useless other bonus.

Power is next to useless in this build.

As for both sigils, after one activates it will put the other one on cool down, effectively, you would only get the bonus from the purity on the main hand.

This is my build variation here

I’m only new to mesmer, but it’s not feeling super strong or super tanky at this stage.. have I got something(s) wrong with the traits/equipment/utilities?

Or do I have my play style a bit out of wack? Does someone have some advice in this regards?

Thanks!

I normally play a shatter build or some variant of a power based support build for www.
But have played the blackwater build alot aswell and liked the survivability of the build.
Lately though i have changed it up abit and play the following build

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAW7flwzipHUzoGb9IhpHBH5AHlirndSKK9rB-jkCB4iCy0Cwk3QEIAZqFRjtMsIasKZLqWpETHDwYuIa1SBsowI-w

I find it has abit more condi burst (on a lower cooldown) than the usual 20/20/30/0/0
Not having DE actually doesnt bother me too much mainly because of the insane low cooldown on staff#2 + the bounce trait and easier access to apply confusion (when you need to burst) makes up for sharper images, in my mind

While I appreciate that you’re sharing your builds with me and I might eventually try it out…

I’d still love if someone experienced could analyse my build and comment of subtle changes and how I should pattern my attack.

Drudgen, your build looks like a fairly standard Blackwater. The thing with this build is that it is really almost entirely defensive and it relies on counterplay and a lot of running and dodging. I like to open with scepter #3 because it’s slow but does decent damage and often lures the opponent into an attack, which I block with #2. You could then try to throw the mage up (though he’s pretty weak) and then swap to staff, toss a chaos storm, summon a warlock, phase retreat and dodge around, etc.

is there by any chance of any videos up with a 1v1 theifs?

I’ve been having trouble with them and am almost running 100% blackwater build – my diff is 6/6 undead runes…

Does any of the Thief heals clear torment, or are thieves condition cleansing with other abilities? I never get my Torment to last more than 2-3 seconds on a thief, and its consistently gone despite hitting thieves with it under 20%, which should down them.