Guild Wars 2

What’s everyone’s thoughts on the new healing signet?

so far in my hybrid PU build its pretty decent
i didnt notice it making me feel like i lasted longer, or shorter vs 2 eles just a few mins ago in wvw
i think mebbe it let me be more aggressive, and less defensive tho before i had to pop a stealth

its a nice heal but Ether Feast is still my favorite, with mender’s purity I can now remove 2 conditions on a 20 sec cool down, on top of being a very powerful heal that almost always fills me up

Ok I didn’t even have to watch my health today,…. it’s quite diff …. so invincible… LOL i didnt even use the heal…. scary though, cuz i feel like a worse player cuz its so automatic > <

In PvE the signet is awesome because Phantasms tend to not die very often and damage in general is pretty low, making the passive healing very nice.

In large scale WvW the signet is heavily inferior to Mirror because A. Your illusions tend to not last long in a zerg and B. 2s of Reflect while healing is just awesome in a zerg.

For roaming the signet is great if you are a PU build due to the extra healing you can get while stealthed and the fact that you almost always have 3 illusions up. Otherwise Ether Feast is probably still a little bit better.

I don’t sPvP much so I can’t really say how useful it is there.

That’s about how my findings are, I am interested to see how the ‘top’ Mesmer players react to this signet, and curious as to what they have to say.

PvE- Hands down the go-to, I don’t think I will ever take it off my bar.

Large scale WvW- As stated I feel that its heavily inferior to Mirror

Roaming WvW- With PU variants this thing is just amazing for me. Keeping me topped off quite well, and if I ever need the active I try and escape or get out of LoS for as long as possible, once you pop this thing though its quite brutal, 35 seconds is a long long time.

sPvp- I haven’t had a chance to actually try it out yet, looking to play some matches tomorrow.

I did a little experimenting in wvw (bronze tier server) with a PU phantasm build.

I took a couple camps and fought a couple 1 v 1’s.

Probably the biggest conclusion was that I felt some tension when my health dropped. I wanted to hit my heal like I normally do with etherfeast, but I resisted. It felt more stressful to be sitting at half health and not use a heal to make it surge back up.

I started to think of illusionary disenchanter as a bit of heal. Casting it when I didn’t really need condition removal, but I wanted a little more healing.

When I did use the heal skill, it was nice to have the extra phantasms. But I felt like I pretty much needed to finish the fight at that point. I did use the heal skill “offensively” once when I was finishing off the camp supervisor – cast duelist then did the heal and cast duelist again.

Feels like it might work, but it’s going to take time to get used to it.

eldenbri.1059:

I started to think of illusionary disenchanter as a bit of heal. Casting it when I didn’t really need condition removal, but I wanted a little more healing.

This struck me as a smart idea, but it has the same problem as all of our summoning skills — it doesn’t work without a target. This is one of the problems with the signet in PvP, you lose all of your healing as soon as your target dies or moves out of range.

I’m starting to lean away from it in PvP because of this and because the cooldown is excessive. This makes the signet not terribly useful in situations where you have to deal with large bursts of damage, which is of course common.

I can see it being much better in PvE and in longer, more dragged out fights. In PvP today I found myself for the first time ever hoping that I’d fall out of combat to get a free heal. If it doesn’t happen, I have to choose between sitting at half health and hoping I can generate and keep up clones to mitigate enough damage so I don’t die, or hitting the button and hoping enough of the cooldown ticks off before I get jumped.

Quick calculation on my current setup, amount of healing you get in 1 minute…

Signet: 5798*2 + 20 ticks of 1015 (assuming constant 3 illusions)
= 4 condition removed (menders), 31896 HP restored.
Mantra: 2656+2732*2 every ~10 second
= 36 conditions removed (menders), 48720 HP restored + 15936-79680 AoE healing (assuming a full heal on 1-5 targets).
Ether: 5840+668*3 (assuming all illusions on each pop) every 20 second
= 6 conditions removed, 23532 HP restored.
Mirror: 4083 every 15 second
= 8 conditions removed, 16333 HP restored + 8 seconds mirror

*note that I balance out the uneven channeling time with popping signet twice, both of which will be a little over 1 minute. You will also never have all 3 illusions constantly while you can always cycle the mantra as fast as you can, so signet is given a major edge in the basic numbers. But you probably wont heal fully on the AoE either, so mantra has iffy secondary numbers.

Here’s my thought:

NOPE

If you get Signet mastery you can improve it a little, but at 35s cooldown it wont matter that much as you only get the boon once. But it still seems better than the other options (ether/mirror). Maybe I’ll try it if I ever go out of Mantra.

Edit: Oh lol, I forgot that the signet passive of course dont work on cooldown. So its like 10K less healing than stated above if you pop it once during that minute (20K passive in one minute or -10K on the pop I included). Ah wtf, I wont bother doing a proper calculation, someone else can fill that in. Healing is alot less than stated above for the signet.

I gotta say, i love the new heal. It let me change out of the build i was dying to get out of because it became so boring for me. Literally this one heal let me change my build into a more offensive build and still have enough healing to keep me happy. Sad to see my aoe mantra healing go, but now i have a lot more personal survivability, and if i find myself a victim to too many conditions i can always swap shatter heal with shatter condition removal.

This makes me so happy since i’ve been dying to get back into the game but found my build too boring to play and other classes don’t match up in fun.

It’s an offensive heal, it’s pretty awesome to start with 3 phantasms right away. Sure the heal and utility can’t match with another heal. However if you spawn 2 disenchanter for example you got your condition remover, or 2 defender for out “healing” (protecting) the mantra heal for allies. It’s very complex – I like it.

I love it personally. Being a PU mesmer and I strictly play PvP I find it extremely useful. I find myself in the midst of a battle forgetting to look at my hp and then I look down rapidly and I’m either at full health or close to it. Just got to concern yourself with keeping up your illusions. It’s certainly not that great in a shatter build I would assume. I feel a bit tanky with it on and my survivability is great. Of course I also am traited for it so my cooldown is 28 seconds and not 35.

I honestly cannot understand how people can think it’s better than Ether Feast. Even in ideal conditions (being able to keep 3 illusions up at all times) it heals for less than EF.

Using the active defensively helps in only very specific circumstances (you’re nearly dead but the opponent is almost dead as well), even then I’d argue that you probably wouldn’t be in that particular situation with EF, since it heals for more.

Using it offensively (popping it in the beginning of the fight to get 3 phantasms up) will work for a while I guess. It’s a new skill and all, people see 3 phantasms spawned, they get nervous. Once it becomes common knowledge that once you pop it, you’re left without any healing for 35s (28s traited, still a long time), good luck staying alive vs people who are paying attention. Sure it’ll work fine vs glass but then again, any direct damage build does.

The above doesn’t apply to PvE, I suppose the new heal can be nice in some PvE encounters.

I love it too, even as a shatter mesm. I already run with signet of dom and Signet mastery becomes a very strong option now. I see the passive healing only as a bonus and don’t really play with that in mind. I just use the skill at need but I try to time it just after I casted a phantasm so that I take the most out of it.

So far so good

Aleph Naught.9034:

I honestly cannot understand how people can think it’s better than Ether Feast. Even in ideal conditions (being able to keep 3 illusions up at all times) it heals for less than EF.

I honestly cannot understand how people can think Ether Feast is better than Healing Mantra. Even in ideal conditions (being able to keep 3 illusions up at all times) it heals pretty much the same as untraited HM.

@Topic
I tried it. can’t fit it into my mantra playstyle.
9360 HP / 12s (including 4 conditions cleaned and allies healed by 3760)
vs
6700 HP / 28s (including 2 conditions cleaned and allies healed by 900)

It’s good with PU builds, otherwise it’s quite crappy honestly.

Fhaeris.9237:

It’s good with PU builds, otherwise it’s quite crappy honestly.

This

Nretep.2564:

Aleph Naught.9034:

I honestly cannot understand how people can think it’s better than Ether Feast. Even in ideal conditions (being able to keep 3 illusions up at all times) it heals for less than EF.

I honestly cannot understand how people can think Ether Feast is better than Healing Mantra. Even in ideal conditions (being able to keep 3 illusions up at all times) it heals pretty much the same as untraited HM.

@Topic
I tried it. can’t fit it into my mantra playstyle.
9360 HP / 12s (including 4 conditions cleaned and allies healed by 3760)
vs
6700 HP / 28s (including 2 conditions cleaned and allies healed by 900)

Charging the mantra removes conditions too, so its 6 conditions.

And how does signet of ether heal allies O.o?

Alissah.9281:

Nretep.2564:

I tried it. can’t fit it into my mantra playstyle.
9360 HP / 12s (including 4 conditions cleaned and allies healed by 3760)
vs
6700 HP / 28s (including 2 conditions cleaned and allies healed by 900)

Charging the mantra removes conditions too, so its 6 conditions.

And how does signet of ether heal allies O.o?

Charging does not remove conditions. I reported it and has been acknowledged as tooltip-bug with the big tooltip patch.

I use WaterRuneSet for additional ~960 AoE Heal / 10s.

PvE: Almost without a doubt, the best heal now, for multiple reasons.

PvP: Not so much. It has a lot of drawbacks. With ether feast you only need 3 illusions up at 1 specific point in time to have maximum effectiveness. With the signet, you need 3 illusions up over a long period of time, every three seconds. Remembering that the tick decreases extremely significantly, you’ll be unable to prevent a large loss in potential healing simply from random illusion deaths.

Additionally, the signet really suffers from low healing when you don’t have targets around. I’ve had the situation multiple times where my opponents had run away, but I was stuck sitting at half hp because I couldn’t get any new illusions out.

For a PU condition build, the active is almost entirely useless. This makes the signet lose a significant amount of its functionality. Would not recommend.

For a phantasm build, things are a bit different. Starting with 3 phantasms by popping the signet is a very risky choice, since if those phantasms get killed, you’re out of luck. I see it more as something that you use when you would normally need a larger heal, and being able to add on a burst at the same time. Still unconvinced that it’s worth losin the superior healing of ether feast or the superior condition removal/healing of the mantra.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Additionally, the signet really suffers from low healing when you don’t have targets around. I’ve had the situation multiple times where my opponents had run away, but I was stuck sitting at half hp because I couldn’t get any new illusions out.

Sorry Pyro, I agree with what you say but I do not see what the problem in what I’ve quoted is. If someone runs you either get ofc soon or, if that doesn’t happen you can heal yourself. If you cannot heal because of CD the same would have happened if you had ether feast or any other healing skill. Ok, it’s on a longer CD and those seconds can sometimes be the difference between death and life. But if someone runs you shouldn’t be dying, and if an enemy joins in you can cast and dodge.

Tbh, as I said previously, the passive healing is a little bonus and we shouldn’t create a build around it.

On the other hand I agree that a PU condi build will not take adavantage from it. However a phantasm build can, but starting a fight with the healing on cd could be detrimental. My experience was that I went into fights without thinking I had a new skill and used it on need. Suddendly you see your zerker skill available again and you get a big smile on your face. And it can turn the tide of the battle

Its a solid heal.
I am glad that the interval of the heal is 3 seconds. Giving you a max of around 333 hps (healing per second) for the passive. Very fair in comparison to the warriors healing signet because unlike warriors us Mesmers will actually need to use the active to survive.

The active heal is not that special when comparing the hps in to its cool down. Although the phantasm cool down elimination is very nice.

However…I don’t like that because anet added this skill they are buffing a type of mesmer spec that is already too strong and takes very little skill to use.
That of course is high passive defense phantasm/condition specs that usually have 30 in chaos.
They take no skill to use because you don’t have to pay attention to timing or execution, and the survivability is insane. They play off passive play and thus are auto piloted to victory

as i like to play on zergs as this kind of build http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAsfmkN1coHRQ9A8AgvjUBXr0DA4C3NA-jkyAocI0VAJLA0nIm9KiGblrIas6FMlbS1uCyeDMpAYSZE-w
that i can add blink or midnight or EF or this HEal signet can give another 1 more sec for anti burst, as role as initiator or tank.. however practical still dont fit via lower hps(heal per second) or as heal burst(1 time big heal)

maybe on duels as phantasm builds.. it can give more as risk/reward factor.. as bursting phantasm.. i need to experiance first that which skills can be sync with it as SIgnet of illusion for lock shatters via Dom XII or with rune of mesmer..

compare to other heals
Healing effectiveness

HPS = Total Heal Given / (activation time of skill + cooldown of skill)
- Ether Feast :
264.76 hps [no illu] to …….. 356.19 hps [if 3 illu and no Healing power]
312.38 hps [no illu] to ……… 418.09 hps [if 3 illu and 1000 Healing power]

- Healing Signet (War)
392 hps to …….. 441 hps (if 1000 Healing power)

- Signet of the Ether (Mesmer)
- 0 hps to…… 325.33 hps [if 3 illu available at the end of 3sec interval time (possibility is very low) if not use the signet yet.
-0 to…. 126.66(1clone) to ……………. 372 (with 1000 healing power) [if 3 illu available at the end of 3sec interval time (possibility is very low) if not use the signet yet.

- Untraited – if we use this signet every 36 sec[dunno activation time if its 1 sec 35+1)
- 154.52 hps
- 177.86 hps (with 1000 healing power)

Traited – if we use this signet every 28 sec [dunno activation time if its 1 sec 27+1)
- 198.67 hps
- 228.67 hps (with 1000 healing power)

However if we use, recharge all phantasms skills.
- it means burst your skill per minute, lets say we ll ve selection
HPS (as above heal effectivenes via not using it) or
HPS + APS (via trigger signet heal + recharge skill)

Heal efficient in conculusion,
So if we try to not trigger signet HPS via active Illu..
Ether feast > Signet
264 to….. 356 hps >113 to….. 325
Challenge, Risk/Reward via HPS
Ekittenignet [ether feast very easy signet very hard challenge]
EF is easy to organize 3 illu before use it however
Signets possibility to maximize heal efficient with 3 illu is very LoW
and Signets challenge become harder from 1v1 to….. larger scales

However we can check,
EF vs Signet as in overall
EF 264hps to…… 356hps VS 113hps to….. 325hps or
————————————————— 154.52 hps to… 198.67hps(if traited) + Phantasms that can be trigger

so it requires more wide theorycraft
as idefender`s can give Damage Negotation again as HPS
or as izerker can give more DPS
etc..

and some about mantras via harmanous https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Compare-Mesmer/3012438

I use it with quite some success in my signet build in solo arena, i feel it really adds to survivability and in that particular build it also gives distortion and removes a condi on activation. I wouldn’t use it to replace ether feast or mirror in any other game mode though, feels lackluster in large scale wvw.

Aleph Naught.9034:

I honestly cannot understand how people can think it’s better than Ether Feast. Even in ideal conditions (being able to keep 3 illusions up at all times) it heals for less than EF.

Again, I am losing interest in this new heal but I don’t get the statement above. If we’re talking ideal conditions that means you never actually click the signet, in which case you’re actually getting something like 250% more healing per second from it compared to Ether Feast.

I’m going to try it on a pure PU. I am not a big fan of that purely defensive playstyle, but I’m curious to see how it works.

Azo.5860

…
- Signet of the Ether (Mesmer)
- 113.33 hps to…… 325.33 hps [if 3 illu available at the end of 3sec interval time (possibility is very low) if not use the signet yet.
…

It’s ‘0 hps to…’ since with 0 illusions it doesn’t heal at all.

Aleph Naught.9034:

Azo.5860

…
- Signet of the Ether (Mesmer)
- 113.33 hps to…… 325.33 hps [if 3 illu available at the end of 3sec interval time (possibility is very low) if not use the signet yet.
…

It’s ‘0 hps to…’ since with 0 illusions it doesn’t heal at all.

is true, so

so it requires more wide theorycraft

it does not requires more wide theorycraft and we can conclude: Signet useless anywere except may be pve

Chaos.3579:

Its a solid heal.
I am glad that the interval of the heal is 3 seconds. Giving you a max of around 333 hps (healing per second) for the passive. Very fair in comparison to the warriors healing signet because unlike warriors us Mesmers will actually need to use the active to survive.

The active heal is not that special when comparing the hps in to its cool down. Although the phantasm cool down elimination is very nice.

However…I don’t like that because anet added this skill they are buffing a type of mesmer spec that is already too strong and takes very little skill to use.
That of course is high passive defense phantasm/condition specs that usually have 30 in chaos.
They take no skill to use because you don’t have to pay attention to timing or execution, and the survivability is insane. They play off passive play and thus are auto piloted to victory

I don’t see how this can be considered as a buff to passive phantasm specs. It gives you another option to be more bursty, but at the cost of a heal. If anything it added a strategic layer by having you manipulate the battle such that your heal and multi phantasm burst can line up properly.

Qaelyn.7612:

Aleph Naught.9034:

I honestly cannot understand how people can think it’s better than Ether Feast. Even in ideal conditions (being able to keep 3 illusions up at all times) it heals for less than EF.

Again, I am losing interest in this new heal but I don’t get the statement above. If we’re talking ideal conditions that means you never actually click the signet, in which case you’re actually getting something like 250% more healing per second from it compared to Ether Feast.

I’m going to try it on a pure PU. I am not a big fan of that purely defensive playstyle, but I’m curious to see how it works.

Not actually accurate. Go ahead and run the numbers yourself, total healing over 60 seconds, permanent 3 illusions. Ether feast wins, and wins harder the more healing power you have.

For healing, it’s inferior and like Pyro mentioned, I too ran into times where someone got away yet I was still stuck in combat with no way to cast illusions to heal up. That left me extremely vulnerable. But, man that active….Nothing sweeter than spawning 2 iZerkers on someone trying to run. Or opening a fight with 2 duelists. Running a modified version of BlackDevil’s PU hybrid, it really made me change up my playstyle a bit. There’s a good chance I’ll switch back to one of the other heals and mender’s purity, but for now it’s definitely fun if you ignore the healing and use it as an offensive tool.

Prism.5649:

In PvE the signet is awesome because Phantasms tend to not die very often and damage in general is pretty low, making the passive healing very nice.

In large scale WvW the signet is heavily inferior to Mirror because A. Your illusions tend to not last long in a zerg and B. 2s of Reflect while healing is just awesome in a zerg.

For roaming the signet is great if you are a PU build due to the extra healing you can get while stealthed and the fact that you almost always have 3 illusions up. Otherwise Ether Feast is probably still a little bit better.

I don’t sPvP much so I can’t really say how useful it is there.

This. Basically it can be summed up like this:

1.) Are you getting CONSTANT low-medium damage and is there NOT a lot of aoe or multiple enemy target damage?
-> signet is nice because it will keep you topped off. Common situations are most PvE, small scale wvw
-> question here is, would another heal not provide the same?
-> utility to reset all cooldowns allows for bursting, useful in small scale wvw, spvp

2.) Are you exposed to BURSTS of damage with a lot of aoe flying around?
-> signet becomes near useless
-> to be encountered in pvp, large scale wvw

The signet allows form some interesting new builds, especially pve wise. It synergises well with PU because the stealth allows to reduce incoming spikes of damage for wvw. Serious spvp players will likely stick to other heals.

It’s our more situational Healing Signet equivalent and about as useful/useless as HS. PvE wise it pulls ahead of HS simply because we have a lot more damage ignores compared to warriors for melee(S/x) and reflect covers.

Don’t be blinded by it’s “wowthisissocool!!!” effect based of off some pve encounters.

This skill is tailored for pve, and maybe 1 vs. 1 where the other person takes a while to either find you or killing your clone/phans. It’s a good skill, abeit longer recharge and casting time. Pretty nice with signet traits though. potential 3 conditions remove and distortion at use at lower recharge.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Qaelyn.7612:

Aleph Naught.9034:

I honestly cannot understand how people can think it’s better than Ether Feast. Even in ideal conditions (being able to keep 3 illusions up at all times) it heals for less than EF.

Again, I am losing interest in this new heal but I don’t get the statement above. If we’re talking ideal conditions that means you never actually click the signet, in which case you’re actually getting something like 250% more healing per second from it compared to Ether Feast.

I’m going to try it on a pure PU. I am not a big fan of that purely defensive playstyle, but I’m curious to see how it works.

Not actually accurate. Go ahead and run the numbers yourself, total healing over 60 seconds, permanent 3 illusions. Ether feast wins, and wins harder the more healing power you have.

You’re right — I forgot that it only ticks once every three seconds.

Now I’m really confused as to what the point of it even is. I’m sure someone will come up with a build that uses it efficiently, but it’s even less of a “no brainer” than I thought it was.

The biggest win for this signet I think will be phantasm based builds which use restorative mantras to augment the healing. Main reason is due to the ability to pop the signet for immediate phantasm skill recharges or emergency condition cleanse. You still have other healing available with RM.

EDIT: For instance, a build like this: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Build-Phantastic-Mantras

That makes sense. But seems like an awful lot of build orientation towards healing.

I tried a mantra/phantasm build myself at one point, but found I gave up a lot of +phantasm traits, and still had to deal with the “half daze” annoyance associated with recharging mantras during combat. I’ll give it another shot though.

Qaelyn.7612:

That makes sense. But seems like an awful lot of build orientation towards healing.

True, but it also introduces an excellent team support element to the powerful phantasm spec.

skcamow.3527:

The biggest win for this signet I think will be phantasm based builds which use restorative mantras to augment the healing. Main reason is due to the ability to pop the signet for immediate phantasm skill recharges or emergency condition cleanse. You still have other healing available with RM.

EDIT: For instance, a build like this: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Build-Phantastic-Mantras

Lolwat? Does no one count?

Why would a mantra build ever want to use this crappy new signet when traited mantra healing is alot more effective. And by alot I mean ALOT.

Let me recount the healing (using my numbers, yours may vary), now in glorious hps on a similar 1 minute cycle and hopefully some bug fixes (menders on channel dont work? I honestly havent looked that hard lol, also forgot the channel time so there was too much cleansing/healing thrown in):

Signet (letting it tick with 3 ill, menders): 338hps / 0 conditions removed
Signet (letting it tick for 30s with 3 ill, then popping it, menders): 266hps / 2 conditions removed
Mantra (14s cycling, traited heal, menders): 580hps/16 conditions removed
Mantra (12s cycling (traited), traited heal, menders): 676hps/20 conditions removed

*lets just ignore AoE healing

How can you say that in a build with restorative mantras it will be the biggest win. Honestly? Just look at the numbers! Look at it!!!

If the signet pumped out like 600hps, sure it would be decent on its own but if you take into account menders there is no contest.

Does that really come up very often in PvP though? I’ve heard lots of folks talking about it, but I’m usually on a team with 4 other players and there are 3 capture points and people dying and traveling.. it’s rare I’m even near anyone else for very long.

In a WvW it might be different, but that’s a PvP build…

There are some pros/cons for the signet to be sure.

Pros:
-Stacked regen, depending on build, with the ability to have this signet with Phantasmal Healing is quite nice. Regen over extended fights saves on up time and reduced down time for required healing, so it makes sense it has a longer cooldown.

-Signet and healing specific traits which we have quite a few: Blurred Inscriptions, Cleansing Inscriptions and of course Menders Purity which if traited makes this skill remove 3 conditions by itself, so nothing to scoff at. I tested it with iDisenchanter, and it was very rare for me to have any conditions at all as stacks generally get applied quickly, and were simply removed with the heal and the phantasm quickly got any remaining.

-The secondary effect for refreshing phantasms was a bigger boon then i think it gets credit for. Simply put being able to both heal and get a specific phat out again, made it well worth while (in the case of iDisenchanter, it was life saving fairly often when outnumbered). I do agree, it’s offensive potential is there but i dont think it’s the best use, but defensively it can hold its own vs any other heal we have.

Cons:
-Requires illusions being up, this is probably the biggest negative as most signets passive remain active at all times, this one doesn’t due to the requirement of needing illusions active. AoE that easily kills illusions makes this skill hard pressed to even think of keeping up with some other heals.

-Cooldown, it’s the longest one we have, so it’s always risky to use it, because the time to refresh makes it that much harder to decide to use it.

-Cast time, while not inferior compared to non-mantra heals, it is a negative because the animation does telegraph to opponents what you are doing.

Just some stuff to think about that may not have been mentioned.

Dawdler.8521:

skcamow.3527:

The biggest win for this signet I think will be phantasm based builds which use restorative mantras to augment the healing. Main reason is due to the ability to pop the signet for immediate phantasm skill recharges or emergency condition cleanse. You still have other healing available with RM.

EDIT: For instance, a build like this: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Build-Phantastic-Mantras

Lolwat? Does no one count?

Why would a mantra build ever want to use this crappy new signet when traited mantra healing is alot more effective. And by alot I mean ALOT.

Let me recount the healing (using my numbers, yours may vary), now in glorious hps on a similar 1 minute cycle and hopefully some bug fixes (menders on channel dont work? I honestly havent looked that hard lol, also forgot the channel time so there was too much cleansing/healing thrown in):

Signet (letting it tick with 3 ill, menders): 338hps / 0 conditions removed
Signet (letting it tick for 30s with 3 ill, then popping it, menders): 266hps / 2 conditions removed
Mantra (14s cycling, traited heal, menders): 580hps/16 conditions removed
Mantra (12s cycling (traited), traited heal, menders): 676hps/20 conditions removed

*lets just ignore AoE healing

How can you say that in a build with restorative mantras it will be the biggest win. Honestly? Just look at the numbers! Look at it!!!

If the signet pumped out like 600hps, sure it would be decent on its own but if you take into account menders there is no contest.

It would work if you used MoP or to a lesser extent, MoR. Idea is, if you should ever need to pop the signet (or maybe even want), you’re not completely hamstrung by the 35s CD; you have an additional healing source with RM. That was the point. The biggest win, maybe not, but that’s where the I think comes in – obviously this is going to need to play out a bit.

Mesmers were hands down the best spvp class. Pretty much always have been and always will be. So much crying was had about warrior healing singet. So instead of nerfing warrior healing singet they gave the best spvp class basically a better version of healing singet. Your overall hps is slightly less than healing singet but the singet use heal is twice as much as healing singet. Myself and other mesmers I fought with in spvp yesterday were godlike.

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Mesmers were hands down the best spvp class. Pretty much always have been and always will be. So much crying was had about warrior healing singet. So instead of nerfing warrior healing singet they gave the best spvp class basically a better version of healing singet.

Healing signet is around 400 HP/sec, always, under all conditions, and heals I believe around 3k with a 20s cooldown.

Signet of the ether is maybe 330 HP/sec, only with 3 illusions up, and heals 5.5k with a 35s cooldown.

In what universe is the mesmer heal better than the warrior one? The two have roughly the same active HP/s, and the warrior’s passive is substantially superior. In practice, the warrior signet probably heals double the HP/s over time.

Given the choice I would take the warrior signet immediately, without hesitation, and never use another mesmer heal again.

I have a hard time taking your class balance comments seriously after that.

Qaelyn.7612:

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Mesmers were hands down the best spvp class. Pretty much always have been and always will be. So much crying was had about warrior healing singet. So instead of nerfing warrior healing singet they gave the best spvp class basically a better version of healing singet.

Healing signet is around 400 HP/sec, always, under all conditions, and heals I believe around 3k with a 20s cooldown.

Signet of the ether is maybe 330 HP/sec, only with 3 phantasms up, and heals 5.5k with a 35s cooldown.

In what universe is the mesmer heal better than the warrior one? The two have roughly the same active HP/s, and the warrior’s passive is substantially superior. In practice, the warrior signet probably heals double the HP/s over time.

Given the choice I would take the warrior signet immediately, without hesitation, and never use another mesmer heal again.

I have a hard time taking your class balance comments seriously after that.

As fun as it would be to run around on a mesmer with the warriors healing signet that would be so broken.

Qaelyn.7612:

Signet of the ether is maybe 330 HP/sec, only with 3 illusions up, and heals 5.5k with a 35s cooldown.

Fixed.

Thanks, I corrected my post.

As a shatter build, I find the signet heal to be completely and utterly useless. It wasn’t intended for me though. It’s pretty obvious they intended this one for open-world PVE phantasm builds. The cooldown is entirely too long for WvW regardless. I can’t even imagine using it in a >20 Fractal.

If it was a true passive regen without the need for clones then I would be singing its praises. But yeah, every shatter leaves me dead in the water and too scared to burn the heal and go for 35 seconds with no backup.

Traiting for it doesn’t fit my shatter build,.

I’ll give ANet credit for trying something, but I am not sure that catering to the already large phantasm crowd is going to do anything to bring lesser-used builds to the forefront.

Its funny, last night in Fractals we had the Molten Champs as the end boss. I normally run sword/focus + sword/sword but I always use Greatsword for this fight. Using the 10/20/0/20/20 build and taking the new heal signet, I also changed some traits to include Restorative Mantras and Mantra Mastery. For utilities, I took Mantra of Resolve and Mantra of Pain however I accidentally put Mantra of Pain on Autocast.

With Mantra Mastery reducing the CD on Mantras and Mantra of Pain on Autocast healing me, I found the fight unbelievably easier to stay alive.

I didn’t realize Mantra of Pain was on Autocast until after the fight and even after that, I thought my keyboard key was stuck down.

With Mantra of Pain was on Autocast, the 2,662 heal x 2 (3/4 sec activation CD) plus with the short 2 3/4 sec recharge on MoP, my healing (and overhealing) was pretty big.

The downside of course was that the recharge of MoP was disabling my auto attacks. Next time, I would use MoP manually but it was nice to see the amount of healing (and AoE healing) one could do (in pure zerker gear even).

Xavi.6591:

…Mantra of Pain on Autocast…

Now that is interesting. Never once thought about doing it.

Always used to love MoP when I was leveling, it’s especially great for tagging mobs.

This would synergize nicely especially with a Blackwater build where the staff autoattack is mediocre anyway, and the scepter autoattack can be problematic in eliminating wanted phantasms.

Chuck Zitto.2367:

Mesmers were hands down the best spvp class. Pretty much always have been and always will be. So much crying was had about warrior healing singet. So instead of nerfing warrior healing singet they gave the best spvp class basically a better version of healing singet. Your overall hps is slightly less than healing singet but the singet use heal is twice as much as healing singet. Myself and other mesmers I fought with in spvp yesterday were godlike.

Is that why most top teams didn’t and partly still don’t run mesmer in their core team setup? Do enlighten us/them how they are doing it wrong.

Also as was pointed out by others, your comparison to healing signet basically just solidifies the assumption of you having no clue.

Move along troll.

Qaelyn.7612:

Xavi.6591:

…Mantra of Pain on Autocast…

Now that is interesting. Never once thought about doing it.

Always used to love MoP when I was leveling, it’s especially great for tagging mobs.

This would synergize nicely especially with a Blackwater build where the staff autoattack is mediocre anyway, and the scepter autoattack can be problematic in eliminating wanted phantasms.

Just tried a mantra-based phantasm build on the Mists NPCs. Seems Restorative Mantras doesn’t trigger Mender’s Purity, which makes this significantly less interesting.