Guild Wars 2

LastDay.3524:

Necros have great Condition removal. Probably the best.
This makes it very hard to estimate how hard it is for other Professions to get rid of them until you’ve played multiple Professions.

Many Necro builds get Condition removal just by running a good build.
Consume Conditions is the best healing skill for many builds.
Off-hand Dagger and the Staff are great.
All three are found in most Condition and Hybrid builds because they just rock!

One sad note, not a single one works while cced what you were going at with the line i just cut before, unlike on most other professions and 2 are based on the enemy actually getting hit or the transfer wiffs (3 if you count P signet, that thank god since patch actually is a true stun break not half of one like mesmer blinks it it doesnt hit).

Ele and Guardian are true kings of not only condition removal, but on a reliable aoe basis (mesmer and engie have options for self sustain, but unlike ele and guardians they actually lose a lot of benefitial utility and damage traits).
We are pretty lacking in that departement, but on the other hand whe do have a giant freaking spider in our back yard that we have been feeding this whole time to send on that annoying fly, its called Plague Blast (aka UW Life Blast), if we could just slot that (*cough make it a secondary effect of Reapers might for land – hint hint wink wink nudge nudge), we would actually be able to troll around with conditions as their true masters…. its funny how “the condition manipulators” and currently highest condi pressure profession gets countered by their own strength.

It makes little sense given there is not crit in the Spite line and while you are correct it possesses condition duration, this does not intrinsically tie the line to condition damage. There are conditions that do not do damage. Dhuumfire is there only to satisfy Curse Necromancers and does very little to contribute to anything else. This feels like the dev team at large allowed a single dev (with a favorite build) to sneak something through that simply doesn’t belong. It doesn’t fit the theme and contributes little to anything but Curse and Deathly Perception builds.

I think the combination of Fire + Torment brings a lot of damage, especially with boon duration increase. I’d recommend:

- change Dhuumfire from 4 seconds of burning to 3 seconds with an 12 second cooldown
or
– change Dhuumfire to proc 4 stacks of Torment

In order to increase survivability and give a boost to MM tank builds, I’d suggest:

- improve heal scaling of all abilities in Blood Magic
– remove Blood to Power from Blood Magic Grandmaster Minor
– Vampiric Precision – move from Blood Magic Adept Major to Blood Magic Grandmaster Minor, and improve the healing of Vampiric Precision
– Vampiric Master – move from Blood Magic Master Major to Blood Magic Adept Major
– Fetid Consumption – move from Blood Magic Grandmaster to Blood Magic Master
– new Blood Magic GrandMaster Trait: Blood Shroud – your abilities which heal have a 15% chance to gain 5 life force and reset the cooldown on Death Shroud. This cannot be triggered more than once every 4 seconds
– change Blood Fiend to heal for 70% of Taste of Death when killed or make it an Adept Major

Thedenofsin.7340:

- improve heal scaling of all abilities in Blood Magic

Only thing from your list that would help.

The difficulty I have with Dhuumfire is it works great in a glass cannon build with Terror. Dhuumfire does little, if anything, for more conservative builds. Did hybrid builds need more rapid damage, or something to help make a profession without a gap-opener besides a couple of short Fears and very limited stability and boon access better at attrition?

I wish Arenanet would combine Greater Marks and Staff Mastery.
I wish they would replace Reanimator with Dark Armor.
I wish they would shorten CD on Spectral Armor.
I wish they would do something to counter spike damage like a non-linear heal curve.
There are a lot of things I would prefer over having to choose between Close to Death and Dhuumfire.

Andele.1306:

Thedenofsin.7340:

- improve heal scaling of all abilities in Blood Magic

Only thing from your list that would help.

Please offer suggestions or constructive criticism in the future, rather than just criticisms. Thanks.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Andele.1306:

Thedenofsin.7340:

- improve heal scaling of all abilities in Blood Magic

Only thing from your list that would help.

Please offer suggestions or constructive criticism in the future, rather than just criticisms. Thanks.

Ok to return to the problem that other classes had with us in beta, we could not only swap between 2 life bars but also make sure their main burst gets reduced by part to more life force, part of it actually hitting us and the biggest part of the hit being absorbed into the void/not actually damaging us. So A strong body (out of DS high damage reduction) and a strong mind (In ds cc immunity) allowed us to be true hp swap tanks (one bar falls other fills), but we also had close to the current amount of damage (even if more was power than condi unlike now)/pressure we could drop onto a person making us imba, if you were to just focus on making life regenerate when forcing us more into ds, it would return us to the same state, but ever weaker to cc.
For the necro to become a profession that works in solitude (like every other/mesmer clones and ranger pets dont count no matter what they do with them at night) we need a self efficient way of forcing the enemy to either punish himself for attacking or make every point of the current system count more.

A good example people like to use was healing in WoW; Factors were:
Heal count
Heal amount
Healer mana
Healing reduction
Damage reduction
Damage intake
Cooldowns

Now if you take the heal count or heal amount, but have the same mana efficiency as before, all you are doing is resulting in a heal reduction damage intake increase; for short a infinite loop of number swaps that wont change anything in actual play/counterplay, but in a ideal world, the 3 points that would change would be Damage Reduction, Cooldowns and Healer mana, because the strength of resources you can spend efficiently in a time frame changes situation way more than the sheer amount of resources that exist (for in game example, kinda reason why the S/D thief with mass initiative regeneration works as well as it does compared to a simple damage beefing heartseeker spam).

For months on end Terror builds were used by ppl, som even considered it a gimmick. Now all of a sudden it’s OP and the dmg is getting nerfed.
Remove this ridiculous burning crap trait instead of messing with something that’s been working fine for months.
But a thief that can backstab for over 2/3 of your hp, being able to disengage like crazy and perma stealth is not op right. Instead of ppl whining like little kittenes about necro, learn to play and counter it.
Guess anet wants everyone to either play a 5 signet 100b warrior or a one button spam thief. God forbid ppl actually having to use their brains or face anything short of a challenge. -_-
And they are surprisingly fast with announcing the nerf for necro when some noobs start crying. But when the necro community is screaming for a bug fix (downed state bug, etc) for months on end, we’re ignored. Sense, it makes none!

Glenn.3417:

For months on end Terror builds were used by ppl, som even considered it a gimmick. Now all of a sudden it’s OP and the dmg is getting nerfed.
Remove this ridiculous burning crap trait instead of messing with something that’s been working fine for months.
But a thief that can backstab for over 2/3 of your hp, being able to disengage like crazy and perma stealth is not op right. Instead of ppl whining like little kittenes about necro, learn to play and counter it.
Guess anet wants everyone to either play a 5 signet 100b warrior or a one button spam thief. God forbid ppl actually having to use their brains or face anything short of a challenge. -_-
And they are surprisingly fast with announcing the nerf for necro when some noobs start crying. But when the necro community is screaming for a bug fix (downed state bug, etc) for months on end, we’re ignored. Sense, it makes none!

Watch state of the game – Zombify one of the top Necromancers, mentions the craziness of playing Necro right now. He said, it’s fun, but some minor changes would be needed. His feeling is that everyone is kind of in a state of wtf, because they are used to just training necros without worrying about being killed off, now they will die. The problem is a good necro will take out 2 people for every time he might go down.

The power is a bit too much right now, but we need it to keep moving because we are still as squishy as before.

Necromancer needs an alternative to Close to Death that plays differently rather than a condition like Dhuumfire; something like where the player gains some Toughness or Vitality on timers depending upon incoming dps, along with gaining Vigor. If Necromancer is going to be a profession that cannot escape and can barely dodge when not exhausted, then it needs a trait that rewards damage taken.

It needs a trait skill that rewards Masochism!

Edit: In fact, a trait skill could use a formula to add large healing and smaller power and precision bonuses depending upon incoming dps. That would force opponents to monitor how quickly they unload on the hapless Necromancer. A backstab may proc regeneration, life leach, vigor, fury, stability, and might. That’s boon access typically rare for Necromancer. Something like that will also encourage powermancers to use more boon duration boosts and can be counteracted by conditionmancers running corruption or well skills. Proc’ing stacks of boons and heals enumerated by damage received will also encourage players to put points into the Death and Blood Magic lines, which will be impossible if the intent is to make a high-dps build. It is a classic allocation problem Necromancers have always had to deal with.

Anchoku.8142:

Necromancer needs an alternative to Close to Death that plays differently rather than a condition like Dhuumfire; something like where the player gains some Toughness or Vitality on timers depending upon incoming dps along with gaining Vigor. If Necromancer is going to be a profession that cannot escape and can barely dodge when not exhausted, then it needs a trait that rewards damage taken.

It needs a trait skill that rewards Masochism!

Just a thought…

Masochism – Grandmaster Spite trait
Gain 1 stack of retaliation for 2.5 seconds every condition (i.e., not every stack) received and gain 2 stacks of retaliation for 2.5 sec for each critical hit received. Cooldown: 10 sec

(2.5 sec sec @ 30% cond dur = 3.25 sec)

I like your thoughts, AgedGnome. I do not hate Dhuumfire but I have to wonder why it has to compete directly with Close to Death while not doing anything to help what is supposed to be an attrition class with dps based upon stacked conditions and no combat escape mechanisms.

Okay, one last time because apparently everyone just wants to ignore me.

Neither ArenaNet, nor anyone affiliated with them has stated anything at all about nerfing Terror. The only person who did, in fact, was Zombify, a Necro player.

Jon Sharp admitted that the now popular 30/30/10 build is probably a little too strong with its counterpressure, but he never stated that nerfing Terror was going to happen, or even really be considered. What he did say was that the Sigil of Paralyzation was making Terror better than it should be and was getting fixed to no longer apply to Fear.

THAT WAS IT! People are blowing this out of proportion saying that Terror has a nerf coming. It wasn’t overpowered before the patch and the trait itself actually got a nerf since it was moved higher into Curses. I would be surprised if anything at all happened to the Terrormancer build outside of losing the bonus from the Paralyzation sigil.

I do agree that it is unfortunate burning in spite is going to punish people that may not even be using it, by resulting in a terror nerf. Would be nice if the burning trait had a side effect of preventing the bonus damage from terror, that way only If you took both would you see the nerf, like most people are currently doing in condi builds.

Would be really easy to control. Just have terror check for burning and then use base value if it sees it.

Edit: not implying a nerf for terror is imminent, it does seem likely. After all, anet didn’t say they were going to leave terror alone.

Bas.7406:

Glenn.3417:

For months on end Terror builds were used by ppl, som even considered it a gimmick. Now all of a sudden it’s OP and the dmg is getting nerfed.
Remove this ridiculous burning crap trait instead of messing with something that’s been working fine for months.
But a thief that can backstab for over 2/3 of your hp, being able to disengage like crazy and perma stealth is not op right. Instead of ppl whining like little kittenes about necro, learn to play and counter it.
Guess anet wants everyone to either play a 5 signet 100b warrior or a one button spam thief. God forbid ppl actually having to use their brains or face anything short of a challenge. -_-
And they are surprisingly fast with announcing the nerf for necro when some noobs start crying. But when the necro community is screaming for a bug fix (downed state bug, etc) for months on end, we’re ignored. Sense, it makes none!

Watch state of the game – Zombify one of the top Necromancers, mentions the craziness of playing Necro right now. He said, it’s fun, but some minor changes would be needed. His feeling is that everyone is kind of in a state of wtf, because they are used to just training necros without worrying about being killed off, now they will die. The problem is a good necro will take out 2 people for every time he might go down.

The power is a bit too much right now, but we need it to keep moving because we are still as squishy as before.

IF being able to 2v1 players was a sign of being OP, eles and perma stealth thieves need a much more massive need than necromancers. I’ve seen eles 2v1 and 3v1 players routinely. I’ve seen thieves solo groups of 4 and 5 players.

2v1 is something most professions have been capable of for a long time.

Luke.4562:

I’d say Necromancer OP when we will be able to go around in berserker gear and survive like mesmers and thieves do abitually.
The trade in dealing so many damages with no mobility, escape mechanisms and lack of design is fair as it’s now.

It was predictable by the way with a team which releases an incomplete game and waits 10 months to review the basis of its investiment.

I find it silly that they don’t admit the holy trinity are OP yet keep nerfing the other classes -ranger- or ignoring them -warrior-.

I’m pretty sure the devs play the holy trinity. Only logical explanation for leaving those broken mechanics unattended for a full year.

Hey all, not really a necro player here. As a mesmer/thief player, I’ve felt the nerf stick plenty of times, and I know it must be frustrating for you guys after just having been buffed into a respectable place to be facing a nerf.

That said, the new trend that I’m seeing in WvW is for whole zergs to have 50+% necros. It is a very powerful tactic, and all I see everywhere is aoe. The combination of spammable, fire and forget marks and wells makes necros lootbag dispensers in zergs. It also makes them hard to counter, since other classes are dealing with technical things like skill lag, but all the necros have to do is ground target in the general area of the opponents. Although stacking works to protect groups vs aoe, the first person to hit a group of marks gets all of the marks and becomes toast. I think that’s where the imbalance lies, as it has the potential to turn WvW into Necro v Necro if left unchecked. I wish ANet had fixed the glamour build by changing/limiting the way it affected large groups of people, but they didn’t…Similarly, I would hope that the nerf for Necros will be something specific to this zerg tactic, as I really don’t see any issues with necros in 1v1 or small group play right now.

I briefly experienced the glory of the mesmer glamour build before it got nerfed, and I see how it needed to be nerfed…at the same time, confusion as a whole got nerfed, which screwed up many, already mediocre builds.

I think ANet is really trying to make the necro class enjoyable, and I’m hopeful that they’ll continue to work towards making conditions as a whole more viable and playable, without being overpowered. I hope you all understand that this is a difficult balance to strike, and won’t be easy. And I hope that not too many of you non-flavor of the month players are negatively affected when those nerfs hit.

10months to address the class 3+weeks to rebreak it again….you’re welcome. The necromancer is a small number of players for obvious reasons. Why it took10months to help the class and will only be approx. 3+weeks for them to rebreak so they can go back never being seen it wvw. Absolutely amazes me though the quick reaction we are getting to fixing what is so called OP.

Terror was always there and it was never op untill now ?
if the burn causes trouble when combined with terror then change the stupid burn not something that was there for ages before it.

When they nerf i hope atleast that it will be for spvp only because i don’t see any problems out of it

Nebiros.4801:

10months to address the class 3+weeks to rebreak it again….you’re welcome. The necromancer is a small number of players for obvious reasons. Why it took10months to help the class and will only be approx. 3+weeks for them to rebreak so they can go back never being seen it wvw. Absolutely amazes me though the quick reaction we are getting to fixing what is so called OP.

this.
OP-as-kitten dagger-eles were allowed to run around for months and anet didnt care. but as soon as some crybabies have problems with necros, we’re getting smacked with the nerfbat…

You say this terror build is OP, yet we don’t have any threads wondering how to defeat a terrormancer, why so? Because the answer is simple, if you have breakstuns/condition removal skills, that build won’t be much of a threat.

It is stupid that Anet disregarded the fact that other classes remained strong for so long, yet didn’t give necromancers a chance to last a bit.

Azraeel.1238:

You say this terror build is OP, yet we don’t have any threads wondering how to defeat a terrormancer, why so?

Just check the sPvP subforum.

Azraeel.1238:

Because the answer is simple, if you have breakstuns/condition removal skills, that build won’t be much of a threat.

If it was that simple there wouldn’t be this much of a commotion over it.

Azraeel.1238:

It is stupid that Anet disregarded the fact that other classes remained strong for so long, yet didn’t give necromancers a chance to last a bit.

Right… because other classes at some point were op for 43 days and 6 hours and 33min, necros should be allowed to be op for the exact same amount of time, for great justice!

I’ve said this elsewhere but if the balance problem exists in high level sPVP then fix it there; leave the rest of us alone please. Don’t balance the rest of the game based on a tiny minority of elite players.

Palmski.6419:

I’ve said this elsewhere but if the balance problem exists in high level sPVP then fix it there; leave the rest of us alone please. Don’t balance the rest of the game based on a tiny minority of elite players.

Every buff you give to an average player will be amplified in effectiveness for a pro.
So I don’t think you can sepereate balancing for high lvl sPvP and the rest, but I would sure like to hear a suggestion on that, if you could elaborate…

flow, regardless that the whole point of sPvP is stupid, not even one post in the first page is nagging about fear. Only one post about Necros being “OP” as a general. It isn’t fair that Arenanet started taking note to tone down Necromancers, when they didn’t even give time for other classes to counter build.

flow.6043:

Every buff you give to an average player will be amplified in effectiveness for a pro.
So I don’t think you can sepereate balancing for high lvl sPvP and the rest, but I would sure like to hear a suggestion on that, if you could elaborate…

Sorry I’ll rephrase; it only seems to be spvp players complaining so please just do whatever balancing is required in spvp only. I can’t see how it’s an issue in WvW or PvE. The burning gives a small damage boost and helps with bleed cap problems as it stacks duration which can only be good, but I really don’t see it being OP. DS#5 if anything has had a far greater impact in the way I play.

Bombsaway.7198:

Compared to my ranger, necromancer is OP. Then again, compared to my ranger. . . .

couldn’t have said it better

This is so funny mainly because everyone said necro is free kill and completely useless etc then they get just a little kittenallenge don’t even bother with condition removals. Then omfg necro op nerf now , why don’t they just play one then instead of crying like this. Pretty sure if necro get nerfed hard enough theif conditions will be the next meta.

solution to fix all of the “op” claims:

make spite boost power and crit dmg
make soul reaping boost life force pool and condi duration.

Fixed.

I have always roamed with my necro pre-patch in WvW and always did very well in 1v1 scenarios and although at times I did feel something was missing but now when I roam I feel I have so much more success in scenarios where it’s a 1v2 with my conditionmancer and yes I’ve been going 30/30/10..I do feel with the combination of burning, terror and torment…plus bleeds and allowing me to chain fear peeps is very strong atm, borderland OP? I’d say so…I have to say I’m having fun though =) but wouldn’t exactly be against some slight tweaks.

I mean I might have been up against horrible players but I did just beat a thief and mesmer about 30 minutes ago in a 1v2 and they were not up leveled…which I couldn’t have done before the patch even if they were not that “great” as when a mesmer and theif fight ya and you’re playing a necro and they’re subpar still a tough combination to beat.

Oh and this is coming from someone who has played a necro a good 500 hours =)

Homonavn.6348:

Before i start i want you to know this… I do not have any kind of proof for what im about to say, but i can say this: i am not lying, this is all true but if you dont want to believe me… Fine, but it is…

Ok so.. i watched a stream now, some guy were playing Gw2 and he had an Anet employee on his stream (Not sure who, since i joined the stream late) and they came into the topic necro and torment.

They started talking about terror and dhuumfire when the Anet guy said something along the lines of: “I don’t think torment is OP at all, but it is the combination of burning and terror that is”

Also, he stated that: “Necromancers got buffed in this patch, so they are now alot easier to do good with, maybe to easy. If the player is experiences, necromancer are very OP”

Someone asked HOW they are going to adjust necro’s and he answered: “We are going to adjust the damage terror does, since thats where they are OP because of all the fear they can apply. Also, we don’t want to change the core of necromancer like bleeds, because we dont want to ruin the main builds”

Again, i have no proof of this, but it is true.. believe me or not, but expect a terror nerf

Haha you’re quoting me. I don’t work for ANET though. And i do stand by what i said. I will try and push through my ideas on how to bring burning+terror inline without gimping either of them. Up to ANET to see what they want to do. And i also stand by what i said with the skill floor being raised to make weaker necros more effective (which is good) but it pushes higher ones into the OP territory.

Also nemesis, i play my own variation 30/30/10 on high tier scrims and i promise you its not as squishy as it seems. I honestly rarely die. Yes if you do get caught of of position you will die, but that can be said for almost any necro build.

Oh and i also saw a comment by someone saying that until we get more defense, necros will never be competitive in high tier…..this is flat out wrong. I would like to see more sustain and less damage, but that statement is incorrect. With proper positioning/good team communication, you have no reason to have “better defenses”. Like i said, i rarely die in scrims unless i mess up and overextend at a bad time/bad call is made. This includes me getting trained. I am not stating this to stroke my ego, but to prove it is do able in high competitive play.

Anyway i am glad to see all this feedback. Also glad to see more necros coming around Hopefully they aren’t just FOTM.

What i have learned this days is that right now, since patch aka since we are more competitive, people is crying becouse don’t have anymore the easycake to fight against. We always were the first target in fight becouse of our squishy defence and nothing changed becouse, despite the good damage output, we still are the same squishy class. Just take a look at the forum. Before patch tons of threads about our lacks, now is all a nerf this nerf those, CC is op, this skill make too much damage, flash golem is annoying (wtf?) etc etc…
Maybe it’s time to enjoy more the game, be objective and do less the crybabes, becouse really seems to be rounded by kiddos into a nursery

Why is there a new OP thread in every class forum over the last couple days? Have the engineer players gotten together in an attempt to bring every other class down to their level?

I am not gonna read this whole post, because it is logical that Anet comfirmed it.
Anet has made a game for casual WoW Kids and not for the loyal players. If some amount of wow kids start qq (mostly engis) Anet has no choice! And thats why gw2 never be in esports xD

Bombsaway.7198:

Compared to my ranger, necromancer is OP. Then again, compared to my ranger. . . .

compared to ranger every class is op, not only necro. this is sad reality.

Umut.5471:

Bombsaway.7198:

Compared to my ranger, necromancer is OP. Then again, compared to my ranger. . . .

compared to warrior every class is op, not only necro. this is sad reality.

Fixed that for you.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Umut.5471:

Bombsaway.7198:

Compared to my ranger, necromancer is OP. Then again, compared to my ranger. . . .

compared to necromancers every class can disengage from a fight. this is sad reality.

Fixed that for you.

Fixed that for both of you.

We needed this patch just to become a viable option in general, and that’s the sad kittening truth. That some of us are actually doing good enough to make some others sob story and get us nerfed is great and all, but it’s not the answer that needs to provided. Other classes to grow a pair and stop expecting us to be free kill.

Why should we NOT be able to deal more damage when we have NO escapes?

I don’t know about the rest of you, you can argue it all you want, but I don’t want to be nerfed back into oblivion where I don’t even want to bring out my favourite class anymore.

constantLogic.3486:

Why should we NOT be able to deal more damage when we have NO escapes?

Because those are two very different issues.

If Anet reads this and is planning a nerf, do it in Dhuumfire and not on Fear. Fear is our ‘short burst, short control’ weapon. Without it, we cannot pressure the enemy, or time interrupt, nor get that last bit of their hit point pool down. Fear does damage, is my weapon against thiefs. If they overextend, i’ll use fear to prevent them from cloacking and disengaging. It still doenst work always. And i still don’t use Dhuumfire. Pure dp’s talking way, 30/30/10 might be slighly over it. But remembr nerfing anything else is wrong for 1000 reasons. It breaks existings, fun and balanced builds. No thanks. Dhuumfire is a pure dp’s trait, will nice bonus, it doesnt add excitement/fun into the game imo. I rather have this trait nerfed, then existing fun/balanced builds being totally screwed over.

Dhuumfire is only shortly into the game. Take a deep breath (anet), do not follow your first thought, and be creative. ‘Nerf this/Boost this’ isn’t always the answer. The word ‘Change’ is better. Like ‘in situation X, you get Y, in situation W you get Z’. If thing are implemented like that, it could balance stuff easier then you think, without destroying builds/fun/professions/excitement of the game.

Secondly Necromancer is conditions. Nerfing that, is basically removing the profession from the game. ele’s and guardians have next to OP (grey zone, very close to op), condition removal. Some other profession could use a boost. Mesmer has a lot survival tools, blinks, phase retreat, distortion. They could use a SLIGHT boost in condition removal, but definitely not stuff like ‘remove 3 conditions on short cd’. Ranger absolutely need a condi removal boost. Apart from that i think the balance is pretty ok.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

If Anet reads this and is planning a nerf, do it in Dhuumfire and not on Fear. Fear is our ‘short burst, short control’ weapon. Without it, we cannot pressure the enemy, or time interrupt, nor get that last bit of their hit point pool down. Fear does damage, is my weapon against thiefs. If they overextend, i’ll use fear to prevent them from cloacking and disengaging. It still doenst work always. And i still don’t use Dhuumfire. Pure dp’s talking way, 30/30/10 might be slighly over it. But remembr nerfing anything else is wrong for 1000 reasons. It breaks existings, fun and balanced builds. No thanks. Dhuumfire is a pure dp’s trait, will nice bonus, it doesnt add excitement/fun into the game imo. I rather have this trait nerfed, then existing fun/balanced builds being totally screwed over.

Dhuumfire is only shortly into the game. Take a deep breath (anet), do not follow your first thought, and be creative. ‘Nerf this/Boost this’ isn’t always the answer. The word ‘Change’ is better. Like ‘in situation X, you get Y, in situation W you get Z’. If thing are implemented like that, it could balance stuff easier then you think, without destroying builds/fun/professions/excitement of the game.

I am totally with you Phoebe!

I shall repost my post from another similar thread

I started as a necromancer when this game launched, put him onto a shelf for several months because of all of the bugs and started maining it again 2 or 3 months ago. I play mostly condition mancer so this comes from my point of view.

The problem with the necro changes is that necromancers using conditions didn’t lack damage, not at all. I was able to melt a mug thief in WvW, 1v2 situation, I was alone, in 3 seconds while running away from his ranger friend, because I used fear on cc trait, doom and dark path and hit him with my staff 2.

I was able to melt bunkers over time.
Don’t tell me I don’t do any good in WvW. A well timed epidemic does 3+k dps to 5 ppl, and I will convert 25 boons with my well.

I don’t see nerfing the terror trait as the solution for reducing the damage. Why? The trait I used has an IC of 90 seconds and it’s highly situational and countered by stability.

The fear on CC for example requires the thief to use basilisk venom in order to proc and then it requires the opponent to be close, but if it procs, the hell is rained upon my opponent.

Doom was buffed in this patch. If you hit an opponent from the range of 600-1200 he will be feared for 1 sec (which was always the case pre patch). Now if you hit an opponent with doom under 600 range, you will get 1.5 sec fear.

This change was well needed for sPvP, where you cannot get so much extra condition duration, but in WvW/PvE the fear length gets ridiculous with 186% or 200% fear duration allowing for 3 terror tics on a 20 or 17 sec cooldown instead of 2. This was basically +50% damage to doom on terror builds.

Yes, unfortunately this makes necromancers OP. Not talking about the Dhuumfire which makes hybrid builds sending their opponents to the moon.

ANet people haven’t listened the whole community. Just the “buff conditions buff buff” talk. Many necromancers were saying that their damage was good (pre patch) and all they needed was a bit more stabi/vigor/mobi to avoid being runned over by 5+ enimies.

People were concerned about the new condition creating unbalance. Many asked for a new skill instead, something that would make us last longer in a fight or help to relocate ourselves. I was asking to get the burning by just replacing some of the bleeds with it leaving the overall damage done to the same, just splitting some of it for burning instead of all bleeding.

This would have created more reliability for our condition damage, not being dependant on just 1 or 2 conditions.

ANet should look at theirselves. Nerfing terror is not the way to go. Just adding pure damage is not the way to go. You need to listen to everyone, not just the part who says “more dmg pls”. Look what you have done.

Doom change should be reverted outside of sPvP.
Dhuumfire needs a rework.
Death Shroud 5 needs a rework.

What comes to Spectral Wall, it is highly situational skill countered by stability and should be left that way.

Torment is unbalancing the game, focusing even more people to get as many CondCleans as possible, which was the pre patch meta specially in WvW. It just punishes people with no CondCleans even harder.

If they’re going to nerf boon effects, I’m going to cry. They should even try to make boons so that some of them are ment to have high uptime (swiftness, regen) and some for doing/avoiding quick moves (protection, might, retal).

My suggestion is, it’s time to make a cap for their duration and then look at them again.

Simply adding damage to somewhere in one patch and taking it away from elsewhere or reducing effects (of boons) is not the way to go.

Necromancers were “not in their spot” pre patch. Now they are considered to be OP.

It’s time to adjust and modify the profession. Not to change it. Start by reverting some of the changes and finding the golden way between the necros of pre and post patch.

The real problem they said necromancer is “borderline OP” in the rare situations when everything “clicks in” and you have AoE burning + AoE bleeds and you drop AoE fear on top… you can wipe a team…

Yes… no character should be able to do that, that is OP.

The second problem is that while that is very strong vs multiple in the rare occasions it happens, but doesn’t make it any different in 1v1, it’s something that is really strong if it clicks, and while it shouldn’t do that vs multiple… perhaps it should do that vs 1 target…

Third problem would be that ArenaNet wants us to be an attrition class with low mobility and high attrition, which i totally agree with… i don’t think we should be given mobility and stability and be turned into an elementalist… So we have Death Shroud to compensate for our lack of mobility.
Here’s the catch… a thief goes into stealth to escape 1 player or 5 players, a mesmer goes distorted to escape 1 player or 5 players, an engineer eats an elixir to escape 1 player or 5 players… guardian becomes invulnerable.

A necromancer can absorb damage from 1 player to escape… dies instantly from 5… if DS is to be used to compensate for that, it would be either too much for 1v1 and enough for 1v multiple, or not enough for 1v multiple…

Now add the lack of mobility and stability / escape mechanisms… and we have the perfect class to be focused. No chance = free kill = GG.

The only way i see this getting fixed is with additional mechanics vs being focused… like Reaper’s Protection moved somewhere more accessible and have an additional effect such as: “Resets in 90 seconds AND resets every 3-4-5 consecutive CCs done in 90 seconds under 90 seconds”… therefor DS remains the same and doesn’t imbalance 1v1, and focus fireing gets punished…

Nemesis.8593:

Third problem would be that ArenaNet wants us to be an attrition class with low mobility and high attrition, which i totally agree with… i don’t think we should be given mobility and stability and be turned into an elementalist… So we have Death Shroud to compensate for our lack of mobility.
Here’s the catch… a thief goes into stealth to escape 1 player or 5 players, a mesmer goes distorted to escape 1 player or 5 players, an engineer eats an elixir to escape 1 player or 5 players… guardian becomes invulnerable.

A necromancer can absorb damage from 1 player to escape… dies instantly from 5… if DS is to be used to compensate for that, it would be either too much for 1v1 and enough for 1v multiple, or not enough for 1v multiple…

Now add the lack of mobility and stability / escape mechanisms… and we have the perfect class to be focused. No chance = free kill = GG.

The only way i see this getting fixed is with additional mechanics vs being focused… like Reaper’s Protection moved somewhere more accessible and have an additional effect such as: “Resets in 90 seconds AND resets every 3-4-5 consecutive CCs done in 90 seconds under 90 seconds”… therefor DS remains the same and doesn’t imbalance 1v1, and focus fireing gets punished…

The sad thing about this is that devs still don’t get it. They’ve stated that they are going to nerf our damage now (we deserve it, but I’m afraid of what are they doing anyway) and increase our survivability via rising up our Life Force generation, which isn’t bad but don’t solve the real problem.

If you’ve been in wvw lately, in a tower/keep defense or offense, you’ve seen the marks on the wall.

Low mobility + high aoe damage at long range + good aoe cc at long range + good health pool may balance out ok in small skirmishes, and may make single roaming possible where it wasn’t before fot necros…that’s all fine.

(Low mobility + high aoe damage at long range + good aoe cc at long range + good health pool) x 30 players all doing it = walking death cloud.

in a 1v1 situation, you can counter with – why don’t you use stability / condition cleanse, etc? But in this situation, no one has that kind of condition cleanse that they can do anything about this. Mobility doesn’t help because the wells/marks on the necro zerg will kill any mobile classes instantly. Range doesn’t help because the necros range is just as good. Stacking doesn’t help because the cc destroys the stack. Stability helps a bit, but necros can easily turn those boons into conditions. Reflection/Retaliation don’t help at all.

On top of that, with all ground targeted and delayed activation (until someone steps on them), the necro zerg is relatively immune to the effects of server lag, compared to non-necro zerg members. So while they can lay their marks down, a guardian who is trying to wade through those marks may not be able to use the skill that would have saved him/her, due to skill lag.

Guilds in SoR were running this kind of group build before the buffs with excellent results. The drawback was that those same players had a pretty hard time in small skirmishes, so they needed to be part of a zerg to be effective. That is not the case anymore.

Ithir Darkleaf.7923:

Nemesis.8593:

Third problem would be that ArenaNet wants us to be an attrition class with low mobility and high attrition, which i totally agree with… i don’t think we should be given mobility and stability and be turned into an elementalist… So we have Death Shroud to compensate for our lack of mobility.
Here’s the catch… a thief goes into stealth to escape 1 player or 5 players, a mesmer goes distorted to escape 1 player or 5 players, an engineer eats an elixir to escape 1 player or 5 players… guardian becomes invulnerable.

A necromancer can absorb damage from 1 player to escape… dies instantly from 5… if DS is to be used to compensate for that, it would be either too much for 1v1 and enough for 1v multiple, or not enough for 1v multiple…

Now add the lack of mobility and stability / escape mechanisms… and we have the perfect class to be focused. No chance = free kill = GG.

The only way i see this getting fixed is with additional mechanics vs being focused… like Reaper’s Protection moved somewhere more accessible and have an additional effect such as: “Resets in 90 seconds AND resets every 3-4-5 consecutive CCs done in 90 seconds under 90 seconds”… therefor DS remains the same and doesn’t imbalance 1v1, and focus fireing gets punished…

The sad thing about this is that devs still don’t get it. They’ve stated that they are going to nerf our damage now (we deserve it, but I’m afraid of what are they doing anyway) and increase our survivability via rising up our Life Force generation, which isn’t bad but don’t solve the real problem.

Exactly. They say stuff like we need to sustain vs focus better because we can’t escape a fight, but then propose simply upping DS regen as a counter. It is not, for the reasons Nemesis stated, it does not sustain virtually at all vs multiple opponents. And 10 or even 25% more Life Force is still going to be spiked through just like it is now by multiple players bursting, it won’t even last half a second more.

I don’t see how you have legit sustain in this game without Vigor, Stability, rapid Regen/Healing, Invulnerability, or mobility escapes. All things they refuse to give us.

Nemesis.8593:

The real problem they said necromancer is “borderline OP” in the rare situations when everything “clicks in” and you have AoE burning + AoE bleeds and you drop AoE fear on top… you can wipe a team…

Yes… no character should be able to do that, that is OP.

I would like to know exactly how the theorycrafting behind this works out, because to be perfectly frank I don’t believe that it can happen unless the team is stacking on a single spot for 5+ seconds while the necro is casting, are all glass, and refuse to use their heal buttons.

sas.6483:

Nemesis.8593:

The real problem they said necromancer is “borderline OP” in the rare situations when everything “clicks in” and you have AoE burning + AoE bleeds and you drop AoE fear on top… you can wipe a team…

Yes… no character should be able to do that, that is OP.

I would like to know exactly how the theorycrafting behind this works out, because to be perfectly frank I don’t believe that it can happen unless the team is stacking on a single spot for 5+ seconds while the necro is casting, are all glass, and refuse to use their heal buttons.

At very high end pro stuff it can… but very very rare… let’s say there’s a fight somewhere, and someone gets 6-7 conditions on them.

With precise team coordination you can insta AoE knockdown at the same time dagger 4 / staff 4 + staff 2 or scepter 2 into epidemic + stakitten . Basically you would have in 4 seconds a chain combo that would put 12+ stacks of bleeding on the enemy + burning + be in fear… if they are already weakened, they will all die if you so much as sneeze towards them.

That’s what i think they were referring to in the podcast when they said “if you really play it right, you can sometimes wipe a team”. I see no other way to wipe a team except that one…

edit: why does it censor stakitten ? S T A kitten , STAFF and a 5

So I suppose I understand that the scenario will be roughly a sequence of scepter 1 to Dhuumfire proc, staff 2, scepter 2, an epidemic-ed Dhuumfire+bleed and stakitten , achieving 10+ bleed stacks + burning. I think the rough math on that is 3k damage per terror tick (2 of these at 100% fear duration, which will be getting nerfed), 2k damage per non-terror tick.

If that translates to “you can sometimes wipe a team if they’ve already been weakened or if they’re glass and don’t have any type of condition clearing or aren’t wearing Melandru,” then I guess that 1) I don’t see what the crying is about; 2) we were able to achieve similar results pre-patch in a variety of ways; 3) other classes were and are able to achieve similar results.

If the argument involves precise team play, then I guess I’d call that “skill,” and skill will always be OP.

For what it’s worth, I don’t play this build – I tried it briefly, and it wasn’t for me. If there needs to be a fix beyond the sigil nerf, I think good ones would be any (one) of swapping +condition duration and +critical damage in Spite and Soul Reaping; swapping -40% duration on food and -25% duration on Melandru; swapping the burning proc for a chill proc.

Chill on proc. I like it. Full chil/cripple/immobalize immune warrior’s/ele’s (you know the build, lemongress+dogged march+melandru), can ‘leap’ towards us, but we cannot outrun them, nor pressure them enough. Even warriors without this immunity, can melee us quite easely to dead, if they know what they are doing. (wvw, not pvp ofc), we need more ways to slow an enemy. Getting close to a necromancer should be hard. This is the prob of necromancer, ‘melee class runs to slow necro, he cant keep up with speed, you are at his feet, BURST unleashed, and poof, necro is dead’.

So yes to chill. No to pre-patch build nerf. Just nope. If you nerf anything Anet, nerf the things you added in the patch that you overextended. But do NOT destroy existing builds, they were NEVER considered op, so nerfing them essentially = nerfing necromancer to WORSE STATE then before patch. WORSE. And everyone agree they needed a boost then.