Guild Wars 2

https://youtu.be/K2ZHhJQn0B8?t=67

Most of the content of heart of thorns where there’s gonna be a lot more pressure on the player that you simply can’t dodge to survive.

Can we talk about how this is a SERIOUS problem for the daredevil ? Our “mechanic”, and entire e-spec sounds like it’s going to be worthless.

The goal might have been to nerf the berserker meta, but thieves are getting shafted right along with it.

wolfpaq.7354:

Can we talk about how this is a SERIOUS problem for the daredevil ? Our “mechanic”, and entire e-spec sounds like it’s going to be worthless.

The goal might have been to nerf the berserker meta, but thieves are getting shafted right along with it.

We don’t know how many unavoidable skills there will be in HoT. I think, at least regarding this, we are overreacting a bit. There are bound (kek) to be a lot of things that we will be able to dodge through with that third dodge that other classes won’t.

At least for now, we have too little information to make a solid judgment. It’s all speculation.

blarghhrrkblah.3412:

wolfpaq.7354:

Can we talk about how this is a SERIOUS problem for the daredevil ? Our “mechanic”, and entire e-spec sounds like it’s going to be worthless.

The goal might have been to nerf the berserker meta, but thieves are getting shafted right along with it.

We don’t know how many unavoidable skills there will be in HoT. I think, at least regarding this, we are overreacting a bit. There are bound (kek) to be a lot of things that we will be able to dodge through with that third dodge that other classes won’t.

At least for now, we have too little information to make a solid judgment. It’s all speculation.

What they lack in dodging they get from their passive and ridiculous amount of healing and condition removal. It’s not a speculation, it’s a fact — and it will remain to be the fact if they don’t improve the Thief’s Core traits and DD.

I mean, we have an exact line from a developer saying that dodge will not be enough to survive.

You don’t need to know the exact details to recognize that this constitutes a problem seeing as the core mechanic and all grandmaster traits of our elite spec are entirely based on dodge.

wolfpaq.7354:

I mean, we have an exact line from a developer saying that dodge will not be enough to survive.

You don’t need to know the exact details to recognize that this constitutes a problem seeing as the core mechanic and all grandmaster traits of our elite spec are entirely based on dodge.

When I seen this, this is what I pictured.:

Driften.8716:

wolfpaq.7354:

I mean, we have an exact line from a developer saying that dodge will not be enough to survive.

You don’t need to know the exact details to recognize that this constitutes a problem seeing as the core mechanic and all grandmaster traits of our elite spec are entirely based on dodge.

When I seen this, this is what I pictured.:

That is brilliant. lol

wolfpaq.7354:

I mean, we have an exact line from a developer saying that dodge will not be enough to survive.

You don’t need to know the exact details to recognize that this constitutes a problem seeing as the core mechanic and all grandmaster traits of our elite spec are entirely based on dodge.

Well honestly, I think that the point of raids is so that nobody will be able to survive without successful coordination. Sure we may not be able to survive with only dodges, but people aren’t necessarily going to survive with only healing either. Maybe Druid looks a bit too powerful right now (definitely did to me), but that doesn’t mean that it can just heal through all of the damage that we take. There’s going to be things that we have to dodge that can’t be healed. There will probably even be mechanics that prevent you from healing (such as agony). The point is we don’t know the entire picture yet.

Keep in mind guys that were only in Beta. We haven’t had time to interact with other Specializations as much, as they are constantly being toned up or down to achieve a balance. What we lack right now can always be fixed later. I prefer being somewhat balanced right now so we can be buffed later in respect to other professions then being drastically toned down later, which will mostly likely happen with other professions.

Directing your anger out on a Dev isn’t going to help out anyone. Just earlier this week people are thanking the Dev for updating improvements regarding DD specs, and now people are kittenting on him because some OP spec came out, its pretty ridiculous.

blarghhrrkblah.3412:

but that doesn’t mean that it can just heal through all of the damage that we take.

Really?
That’s exactly what it looked like to me.
They have spammable healing for days
It’s going to be one shot kill them, fully stunlock them, or accept that they’re immortal.

Slowmelt.8547:

blarghhrrkblah.3412:

but that doesn’t mean that it can just heal through all of the damage that we take.

Really?
That’s exactly what it looked like to me.
They have spammable healing for days
It’s going to be one shot kill them, fully stunlock them, or accept that they’re immortal.

Bunker guardians already exist. The principle isn’t anything that new, only difference being that they output heals instead of boons. Yea you’re probably not going to kill them 1v1, but their job is going to be to not die and keep people alive.

And still…read the post above yours. It’s all still beta. Things are subject to change. Lighten up a bit.

So, just got through watching most of the the Druid reveal. I had to come here and say this as emphatically as I can:

No, a staff and one extra dodge is not enough!

Those arguing that is are apparently convinced a new weapon with clunky animation and questionable DPS plus the equivalent of the old Feline Grace Adept Acrobatics Trait and 4 seconds of endurance regeneration is adequate as the basis for an elite spec. I completely agree that the three Grandmaster traits need to become baseline with some kind of toggle.

Also regarding condition cleanse . . . jeezus . . . apparently it its important enough for the Druid elite to have:

1) Vine Surge: a AOE condi cleanse on their new staff to deal with all movement impairing conditions on a 16 second CD;
2) Seed of Life: a spam-able condi cleanse that remove 2 conditions in an AOE in their new elite form;
3) Druidic Clarity: an adept trait that cleans all conditions that triggers upon entering their new form (not a specific type, not 1 or 2, but ALL of them);
4) Verdant Etching: a master trait that reduces the CD on their already short CD glyphs (ATM all but one have less than 30 second cool downs) AND drops a Seed of Life (see above);
5) Natural Stride: another master-level trait that reduces the duration of movement impairing conditions on the Druid; and
6) Grace of the Land: a grandmaster trait that reduces condition damage by 33% for Druid and allies while in their avatar form.

You know . . . its almost like conditions (and apparently surviving unavoidable damage) are thing in the game . . . and removing them might be really important in HOT. But hey, for the Thief it needs to be “choice” and a reward for “skilled” gameplay since presumably every thief in HOT will just hang out with a Druid anyway . . .

Arrow.4619:

…

since presumably every thief in HOT will just hang out with a Druid anyway . . .

Well, our role is +1, so duh…

We will be like a stronger version of their pets to them.

The +1 role is so demeaning…

Arrow.4619:

plus the equivalent of the old Feline Grace Adept Acrobatics Trait

Enforcer Training is no Feline Grace, I’ll tell you that. People would be somewhat happy if we literally got Feline Grace back.

What the minor traits for daredevil should look like:

ADEPT: Daredevil Training – Gain access to the physical skill category and staff weapon type. On a successful steal you get access to Elude (Steal Flip over) which blurs you for 6 seconds evading all attacks.

MASTER: Audacity – When you successfully evade an attack you get a stack of Audacity for 6 seconds allowing you to strike an additional target in front of you with a melee weapon and cause your range projectiles to bounce once. Audacity stacks in intensity up to three times. (so up to five targets on a pistol whip and other sword skills/ potentially three targets on a backstab and five on a death blossom / kicks up the number of targets up to five on staff and up to eight on vault / also ricocheting sneak attacks and unload)

GRANDMASTER: Crime Spree – Evading attacks reduces the cool down on steal by 6 percent.

So we get back to a suggestion I made some time ago.

In light of the reveals on scrapper and druid the DD spec underwhelming yet not garbage as some suggest.

Again remove the cool down from escapists absolution and driven fortitude thus allowing multiple condition cleanses and heals on a successful evade. If need be cap at a max of three procs per evade of each if there multiple evades.

Put the dodges on f3 f4 f5 selectable in combat with a 10 second icd.

Make three new GM traits.

We will need sustain more than ever with all of those reveals and the “even a dodge will not save you” meme.

This by no means the only enhancements needed by thief but it a good beginning on the DD spec. To those who still feel being able to select in combat is too powerful I will suggest that claim still flawed both in light of scrapper and druid reveal and based on the fact only one can be used at a time in any case. Changing to a dash on dodge from a damage on dodge even in combat can do as much harm as good. It no different really then swapping weapons after 10 seconds in game terms.

What if we buff pulmonary impact so that it copies all damage done by DrD over its 2 second application and slams enemies with it for its final tick? This may help with integrating more burst on interrupts with Impacting Disruption. I could see P/P being in a better spot with Dash, Headshot and Unload. Might be too OP, I don’t know haha.

Irenio himself said there are things you cannot even dodge… Aren’t you aware of that dev?

The WHOLE ELITE SPEC IS BASED ON DODGING. Idk what could save you at that point. BWE3 is next week, everyone will see how badly designed the Daredevil (and Thief in general) is.

The WHOLE ELITE SPEC IS BASED ON DODGING.. it’s like check mate from the beginning.

Kocoff.7582:

Irenio himself said there are things you cannot even dodge… Aren’t you aware of that dev?

The WHOLE ELITE SPEC IS BASED ON DODGING. Idk what could save you at that point. BWE3 is next week, everyone will see how badly designed the Daredevil (and Thief in general) is.

The WHOLE ELITE SPEC IS BASED ON DODGING.. it’s like check mate from the beginning.

Things does not mean everything. Further to that we have not seen what meant by this in game terms. As example the damage inflicted by one of these attacks could be structured so as rather than deliver all damage in one blow that takes part of a second which one can dodge , it might apply over a longer period of time meaning one might be able to chain dodges so as to avoid it.

There has to be range limitations as well so as example I COULD forsee seeing the windup for this attack and turning and running with multiple dashes in a row so as to get out of range.

I think on this we will have to wait on see.

babazhook.6805:

Kocoff.7582:

Irenio himself said there are things you cannot even dodge… Aren’t you aware of that dev?

The WHOLE ELITE SPEC IS BASED ON DODGING. Idk what could save you at that point. BWE3 is next week, everyone will see how badly designed the Daredevil (and Thief in general) is.

The WHOLE ELITE SPEC IS BASED ON DODGING.. it’s like check mate from the beginning.

Things does not mean everything. Further to that we have not seen what meant by this in game terms. As example the damage inflicted by one of these attacks could be structured so as rather than deliver all damage in one blow that takes part of a second which one can dodge , it might apply over a longer period of time meaning one might be able to chain dodges so as to avoid it.

There has to be range limitations as well so as example I COULD forsee seeing the windup for this attack and turning and running with multiple dashes in a row so as to get out of range.

I think on this we will have to wait on see.

We can wait and see… of course. However when a dev mentions it enough time to the host that there re thing you cannot block or dodge, it means the odd are stacked against us form the beginning. That’s just undeniable.

Kocoff.7582:

babazhook.6805:

Kocoff.7582:

Irenio himself said there are things you cannot even dodge… Aren’t you aware of that dev?

The WHOLE ELITE SPEC IS BASED ON DODGING. Idk what could save you at that point. BWE3 is next week, everyone will see how badly designed the Daredevil (and Thief in general) is.

The WHOLE ELITE SPEC IS BASED ON DODGING.. it’s like check mate from the beginning.

Things does not mean everything. Further to that we have not seen what meant by this in game terms. As example the damage inflicted by one of these attacks could be structured so as rather than deliver all damage in one blow that takes part of a second which one can dodge , it might apply over a longer period of time meaning one might be able to chain dodges so as to avoid it.

There has to be range limitations as well so as example I COULD forsee seeing the windup for this attack and turning and running with multiple dashes in a row so as to get out of range.

I think on this we will have to wait on see.

We can wait and see… of course. However when a dev mentions it enough time to the host that there re thing you cannot block or dodge, it means the odd are stacked against us form the beginning. That’s just undeniable.

How do you think other classes will fare against an attack that can not be blocked or dodged? Now I expect this will mean armor and vitality become more important but this suggests such attacks will be rather infrequent as if two attacks like this launched in a row that can not be blocked or dodged than most any class will end up dead. Will a blind still work? Again we have to wait and see.

I expect such atacks to have a limited range meaning you best get your pistols out.

nopoet.2960:

MASTER: Audacity – When you successfully evade an attack you get a stack of Audacity for 6 seconds allowing you to strike an additional target in front of you with a melee weapon and cause your range projectiles to bounce once. Audacity stacks in intensity up to three times. (so up to five targets on a pistol whip and other sword skills/ potentially three targets on a backstab and five on a death blossom / kicks up the number of targets up to five on staff and up to eight on vault / also ricocheting sneak attacks and unload)

That may be a bit powerful as written, but conceptually it’s very interesting. It also has such wonderful flavor for the Daredevil—so audacious and wild that s/he has no problem overextending to make sure they lay on the hurt, and so slippery that they get away with it.
That kind of thing is the type of ability we should have for DD, in general terms. Everything we’re actually getting is a bit… dull.

Just read the Twitchcon patch notes, at least we don’t seem to have been nerfed this time, which is a victory in and of itself, but where it the return of classic Feline Grace?

Ohoni.6057:

Just read the Twitchcon patch notes, at least we don’t seem to have been nerfed this time, which is a victory in and of itself, but where it the return of classic Feline Grace?

I think they’re afraid of returning it to its former glory because of potentially being overpowered with DrD. Whether or not that fear is justified is up to discussion, but I would say that it would be acceptable due to the opportunity costs of having to take Acro and DrD for the synergy.

Honestly, after see every elite specs + patch note preview i feel depressed with the thief

I think they’re afraid of returning it to its former glory because of potentially being overpowered with DrD.

Then return it to its former power and remove the Daredevil, that would be well worth it. I like the Daredevil well enough, better than most do, at least, but it’s nowhere near worth losing out on classic Feline Grace.

Ohoni.6057:

Then return it to its former power and remove the Daredevil, that would be well worth it. I like the Daredevil well enough, better than most do, at least, but it’s nowhere near worth losing out on classic Feline Grace.

You KNOW that’s not going to happen. The best thing that can happen now is to have Acrobatics be successfully differentiated from Daredevil.

There are many things that could be done to improve and differentiate Acrobatics if there were the desire. A +25% movespeed minor seems like a no brainer, given that Thief is supposed to be the “most mobile”.

Acrobatics should give 2 seconds of super speed after a dodge instead of 4 seconds of swiftness. Super speed is much more helpful in combat. But alas, Acrobatics feedback is better left to another thread…

I get the feeling that a lot of people are being overly paranoid. When the devs say “you can’t dodge it all”, I think they just mean the standard dodges that come base on every class.

Thief and Daredevil dodging are on a whole other level.

#1: We have weapon dodges, which is one dodge every 4 seconds going by initiative cost.
#2: We have 50% vigor uptime with either trickery or lolcrabatics.
#3: We have skill dodges in Withdraw and Roll for Initiative
#4: Signet of Agility’s active is 2 more dodges every 30/24 seconds.
#5: We have movement skills that move us out of danger zones.
#6: Now starting with daredevil, we get an additional dodge.
#7: Daredevils have the best endurance regen in the game, especially with brawlers tenacity. All physical skills give 10 endurance, including the 12 second block in bandits defense. That endurance is all worth about 4 seconds of vigor.
#8: Renewed Vigor gives up to 85 endurance every 16 seconds.
#9: Steal gives 50 endurance every 30/20 seconds.
#10: Daredevil dodges aren’t like other dodges. Other classes dodge to avoid damage, and don’t do damage while dodging. But with Bounding Dodge and Lotus Training, our dodge skills maintain damage, costing us relatively little.
#11: If we go defensive, the combination of escapists absolution and Unhindered Combatant menas we can’t be soft CCed into a damage patch.
#12: Staff Mastery can regen 2 endurance per initiative, which while miniscule still contributes.
#13: Our greater dodge bar means we have more endurance capacitance. Any “burn phase” or damage-less downtime has the ability to benefit the daredevil 50% more than any other class.
#14: This isn’t pertinent to dodging, but don’t forget that stealth is the best aggro management tool in the game. Should we ever want to stop focus fire on ourselves, we just blink out of existence.

Thief and daredevil dodging isn’t just “better” than other classes. It is exponentially better than other classes. It also isn’t the only survival tool we have.

Btw, does anyone else find it darkly humorous that they are giving thieves a 2s→4s Swiftness buff (hooray), at the same time that they’re giving the Druid PERMANENT Swiftness? As a passive?

People are for sure overreacting.
The sky isn´t falling.
The concept of daredevil is really nice.
Don´t bash on Karl constantly.

There are just a few things that need to be done to make the daredevil work perfectly fine.

• Make the new dodges selectable stances. If they are swappable in combat than let them have a cost for swapping. 50 endurance or whatever. If the developers think thats to powerful just make them swapable out of combat only.

• Smoothen the new dodges. I don´t need super shiny animations. They should just work right in the first place. Cool animations would be nice but not necessary.

• Put a darkfield on staff 4 so we can use our whirl, blast and leap finishers. Will change a lot. Staff is missing a combo field.

• Put new grandmaster traits into the daredevil spec.

• Combine the condition removal on a successful dodge into one of the minor traits.

Tada …. all good again.

Thank you Karl for communicating with us that much.

Best regards!

Shino

We still need Feline Grace back.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I get the feeling that a lot of people are being overly paranoid. When the devs say “you can’t dodge it all”, I think they just mean the standard dodges that come base on every class.

Thief and Daredevil dodging are on a whole other level.

#1: We have weapon dodges, which is one dodge every 4 seconds going by initiative cost.
#2: We have 50% vigor uptime with either trickery or lolcrabatics.
#3: We have skill dodges in Withdraw and Roll for Initiative
#4: Signet of Agility’s active is 2 more dodges every 30/24 seconds.
#5: We have movement skills that move us out of danger zones.
#6: Now starting with daredevil, we get an additional dodge.
#7: Daredevils have the best endurance regen in the game, especially with brawlers tenacity. All physical skills give 10 endurance, including the 12 second block in bandits defense. That endurance is all worth about 4 seconds of vigor.
#8: Renewed Vigor gives up to 85 endurance every 16 seconds.
#9: Steal gives 50 endurance every 30/20 seconds.
#10: Daredevil dodges aren’t like other dodges. Other classes dodge to avoid damage, and don’t do damage while dodging. But with Bounding Dodge and Lotus Training, our dodge skills maintain damage, costing us relatively little.
#11: If we go defensive, the combination of escapists absolution and Unhindered Combatant menas we can’t be soft CCed into a damage patch.
#12: Staff Mastery can regen 2 endurance per initiative, which while miniscule still contributes.
#13: Our greater dodge bar means we have more endurance capacitance. Any “burn phase” or damage-less downtime has the ability to benefit the daredevil 50% more than any other class.
#14: This isn’t pertinent to dodging, but don’t forget that stealth is the best aggro management tool in the game. Should we ever want to stop focus fire on ourselves, we just blink out of existence.

Thief and daredevil dodging isn’t just “better” than other classes. It is exponentially better than other classes. It also isn’t the only survival tool we have.

Well, we can´t know yet what they mean with “you can’t dodge it all”. Maybe just undodgable or you need more dodges. Thats still in the stars.
Thanks for summarize that stuff, but what lacks there is a view over synergy. You can´t have everything. For example you could use daredevil, trickery and acrobatic for a lot of dodges but not really damage —> maybe bunker (pls don´t create a bunker-build as another “viable” build. I don´t like bunkering ^^ —> while dodge-bunkering sounds nice). But DA,acrobatic, daredevil would lack trickery which is important and difficult to give up. Daredevil and acrobatic could work well together, but DA and trickery provide very important utility.

Other stuff depend on the situation. You most likely wont use agility signet exactly every 30sec. If you are full of endurance you don´t activate it or you may still want the passiv-bonus.
Bonus on steal require steal to actually hit (what every good thief aims for), making up for skillful plays (baiting steal with counting cd of steal, etc). A lot of people accused steal to be a “no-brainer” and “win-button”, forgetting that missing one single steal is huge. Learning aftercasts and situations to safely get you steal on is very important for thieves. It was important to play against S/D thieves, too. The aftercast on S/D 3 can be heavily exploited.
If you use DA,trickery,daredevil with last one focused on endurance-gain you will lack condi-remove (you can´t dodge everything). If you give up traits like bountiful theft for trickster to gain some removal you give up vigor on steal and boon-steal —> less dodges. You can´t have it all

1. isn´t correct…
   Warrior can deal damage through dodge —> “reckless dodge” (adept minor)
   Ele gain very important things with “evasive arcana” (grandmaster)
   Other classes gain stuff through >dodging< without actually having to >evade< something. (ranger – protection on dodge/ Stop, drop and roll, etc)
   I don´t mean that they should have that condition, cause they maybe lack some other things, but thieves have a lot of that stuff.
   Mesmer gets a clone, being a very important trait since release.

I think thats it for now.
Never forget to look at the big picture

Do you want to make staff viable?
- Smoke field on 4# that last 4s or at least make the skill instant to make usefull for reactive play and not lucky prevision how actually is.
– 2# if i use it i want to be stacked on the target and not to get through, if i don’t have a target i have to fullfill max distance. Distance covered should be increased to be similar at Heartseeker, staff lack of gap-closing except for #5, but it has an initiative cost too high for that use.
- 5# keep the iniziative at 6, speed up execution and put evade frame.
If needed increase general DPS of skills.

Shinobi.3240:

People are for sure overreacting.
The sky isn´t falling.
The concept of daredevil is really nice.
Don´t bash on Karl constantly.

There are just a few things that need to be done to make the daredevil work perfectly fine.

• Make the new dodges selectable stances. If they are swappable in combat than let them have a cost for swapping. 50 endurance or whatever. If the developers think thats to powerful just make them swapable out of combat only.

• Smoothen the new dodges. I don´t need super shiny animations. They should just work right in the first place. Cool animations would be nice but not necessary.

• Put a darkfield on staff 4 so we can use our whirl, blast and leap finishers. Will change a lot. Staff is missing a combo field.

• Put new grandmaster traits into the daredevil spec.

• Combine the condition removal on a successful dodge into one of the minor traits.

Tada …. all good again.

Thank you Karl for communicating with us that much.

Best regards!

Shino

But that’s the point, we’ve gotten no word yet that anything similar to any of this is happening – and those aren’t simple changes. If those changes don’t occur, we are screwed, and that’s what people are worried about. This, regardless of how you feel, is a big deal.

Shinobi.3240:

People are for sure overreacting.
The sky isn´t falling.
The concept of daredevil is really nice.
Don´t bash on Karl constantly.

There are just a few things that need to be done to make the daredevil work perfectly fine.

• Make the new dodges selectable stances. If they are swappable in combat than let them have a cost for swapping. 50 endurance or whatever. If the developers think thats to powerful just make them swapable out of combat only.

• Smoothen the new dodges. I don´t need super shiny animations. They should just work right in the first place. Cool animations would be nice but not necessary.

• Put a darkfield on staff 4 so we can use our whirl, blast and leap finishers. Will change a lot. Staff is missing a combo field.

• Put new grandmaster traits into the daredevil spec.

• Combine the condition removal on a successful dodge into one of the minor traits.

Tada …. all good again.

Thank you Karl for communicating with us that much.

Best regards!

Shino

Pretty much summed up my thoughts. The points made here is all that’s left, in my opinion, to make DD work in a decent fashion. I like the Revenant styled dodge select someone here made. Making the dodges selectable out of combat would work out just fine in my opinion. People I know who don’t even play thief even say that selectable dodges in the Function bar would be better.

At this point, I can’t think of a better way of adding a more reliable condition cleanse on DD besides “on dodge” instead of “successful dodge” for Escapist’s Absolution which would be nice (give it a cooldown?). However, making it part of a minor would be an acceptable solution and would let us, most importantly, explore more options in the Master tier. If a majority of people feel that they have to take a trait to literally survive condition damage, then it really should be core somewhere.

All this would free up a master trait and 3 GMs. I think we need the 3 GMs given the current options in traits don’t really add much flavor. I would add maybe a damage mitigation trait (toughness via % of power or protection on dodge?) and a trait that gives us some stability when using Impact Strike.

(staff/dodge) animations can come in a bit later if it’s really too hard to get them done in time for HoT release.

Age.9320:

Shinobi.3240:

People are for sure overreacting.
The sky isn´t falling.
The concept of daredevil is really nice.
Don´t bash on Karl constantly.

There are just a few things that need to be done to make the daredevil work perfectly fine.

• Make the new dodges selectable stances. If they are swappable in combat than let them have a cost for swapping. 50 endurance or whatever. If the developers think thats to powerful just make them swapable out of combat only.

• Smoothen the new dodges. I don´t need super shiny animations. They should just work right in the first place. Cool animations would be nice but not necessary.

• Put a darkfield on staff 4 so we can use our whirl, blast and leap finishers. Will change a lot. Staff is missing a combo field.

• Put new grandmaster traits into the daredevil spec.

• Combine the condition removal on a successful dodge into one of the minor traits.

Tada …. all good again.

Thank you Karl for communicating with us that much.

Best regards!

Shino

Pretty much summed up my thoughts. The points made here is all that’s left, in my opinion, to make DD work in a decent fashion. I like the Revenant styled dodge select someone here made. Making the dodges selectable out of combat would work out just fine in my opinion. People I know who don’t even play thief even say that selectable dodges in the Function bar would be better.

At this point, I can’t think of a better way of adding a more reliable condition cleanse on DD besides “on dodge” instead of “successful dodge” for Escapist’s Absolution which would be nice (give it a cooldown?). However, making it part of a minor would be an acceptable solution and would let us, most importantly, explore more options in the Master tier. If a majority of people feel that they have to take a trait to literally survive condition damage, then it really should be core somewhere.

All this would free up a master trait and 3 GMs. I think we need the 3 GMs given the current options in traits don’t really add much flavor. I would add maybe a damage mitigation trait (toughness via % of power or protection on dodge?) and a trait that gives us some stability when using Impact Strike.

(staff/dodge) animations can come in a bit later if it’s really too hard to get them done in time for HoT release.

I have been harping this since BW2.
1) Revenent Legend Style dodge select. Out of combat we can do it now just with a UI wall. Make it easier. In combat would be nice with a 10 sec CD period

2) New GM Traits worked towards survalibility and utility. Gain a stack of Aegis on successful dodge evade, or increase armor. Cast smoke field as a trail, smoke bomb, flash bomb (2 sec aoe confusion with a 20 sec CD) Something other than just additional dmg.

3) Drop evade condition removal to minor. In a DD spec this is the only damage condition removal you have.

4) Re-work core Arco and SA lines for better synergy and survival options when NOT taking DD.

I feel like this Tuesday was the last option for #4 which makes me the most disappointed.

Slowmelt.8547:

nopoet.2960:

MASTER: Audacity – When you successfully evade an attack you get a stack of Audacity for 6 seconds allowing you to strike an additional target in front of you with a melee weapon and cause your range projectiles to bounce once. Audacity stacks in intensity up to three times. (so up to five targets on a pistol whip and other sword skills/ potentially three targets on a backstab and five on a death blossom / kicks up the number of targets up to five on staff and up to eight on vault / also ricocheting sneak attacks and unload)

That may be a bit powerful as written, but conceptually it’s very interesting. It also has such wonderful flavor for the Daredevil—so audacious and wild that s/he has no problem overextending to make sure they lay on the hurt, and so slippery that they get away with it.
That kind of thing is the type of ability we should have for DD, in general terms. Everything we’re actually getting is a bit… dull.

Thank you. It would be a powerful ability for thief but it’s really no different than aoes or cleaves that other classes have. The more powerful part of my suggestion was the 6 sec blur on a 30 second or less (if trickery is traited) cool down. Blur, for those who have never played a sword mesmer, is a evade that while attacking.

Shinobi.3240:

People are for sure overreacting.
The sky isn´t falling.
The concept of daredevil is really nice.
Don´t bash on Karl constantly.

There are just a few things that need to be done to make the daredevil work perfectly fine.

• Make the new dodges selectable stances. If they are swappable in combat than let them have a cost for swapping. 50 endurance or whatever. If the developers think thats to powerful just make them swapable out of combat only.

• Smoothen the new dodges. I don´t need super shiny animations. They should just work right in the first place. Cool animations would be nice but not necessary.

• Put a darkfield on staff 4 so we can use our whirl, blast and leap finishers. Will change a lot. Staff is missing a combo field.

• Put new grandmaster traits into the daredevil spec.

• Combine the condition removal on a successful dodge into one of the minor traits.

Tada …. all good again.

Thank you Karl for communicating with us that much.

Best regards!

Shino

I agree 100%. The whole problem is that we have very clear feedback across the board with evidence as to why it should happen but we’ve received no word from ANet.

You forgot to add that endurance regen should be % based on total endurance instead of a set number per tick so that that extra dodge becomes more than just 1 extra dodge per fight.

Shalien.9018:

Shinobi.3240:

People are for sure overreacting.
The sky isn´t falling.
The concept of daredevil is really nice.
Don´t bash on Karl constantly.

There are just a few things that need to be done to make the daredevil work perfectly fine.

• Make the new dodges selectable stances. If they are swappable in combat than let them have a cost for swapping. 50 endurance or whatever. If the developers think thats to powerful just make them swapable out of combat only.

• Smoothen the new dodges. I don´t need super shiny animations. They should just work right in the first place. Cool animations would be nice but not necessary.

• Put a darkfield on staff 4 so we can use our whirl, blast and leap finishers. Will change a lot. Staff is missing a combo field.

• Put new grandmaster traits into the daredevil spec.

• Combine the condition removal on a successful dodge into one of the minor traits.

Tada …. all good again.

Thank you Karl for communicating with us that much.

Best regards!

Shino

I agree 100%. The whole problem is that we have very clear feedback across the board with evidence as to why it should happen but we’ve received no word from ANet.

You forgot to add that endurance regen should be % based on total endurance instead of a set number per tick so that that extra dodge becomes more than just 1 extra dodge per fight.

Yeah this part kittened me up. I thought it was common sense to make the regen percentage based but nope.

Some more ideas … not a must .. just extra flavor

• Endurance Thief – Could actually steal endurance from enemy players.

• Driven Fortitude gets combined with Escapists Absolution – condition clear and a small heal on a successful dodge .. doesn´t sound overpowered to me.

• Staff Master – The 10% extra damage when your endurance is not full was once a minor grandmaster in acrobatics. Worked with all weapons. Could work like that again and just leave the Initiative/endurance part for staff alone.

Best regards!

Shino

Questions:

• Does Signet of Agility’s active give 100 or 150 endurance to Daredevils?

• Does Superior Sigil of Energy’s on-swap effect give 50 or 75 endurance to Daredevils?

Shinobi.3240:

Some more ideas … not a must .. just extra flavor

• Endurance Thief – Could actually steal endurance from enemy players.

• Driven Fortitude gets combined with Escapists Absolution – condition clear and a small heal on a successful dodge .. doesn´t sound overpowered to me.

• Staff Master – The 10% extra damage when your endurance is not full was once a minor grandmaster in acrobatics. Worked with all weapons. Could work like that again and just leave the Initiative/endurance part for staff alone.

Best regards!

Shino

The idea for Endurance thief actually STEALING endurance off enemy players is a great one.

More on switiching up the dodges in combat with an ICD.

Again to those that think it OP what exactly is gained if one switches? Firstly the occassions where a Power build switches to Implaing lotus or vice versa are limited and will not suit very many builds so we need only look at the implications of Dash to Bounding Dodger or Dash to Implaing lotus and vice versa.

Rather than applying conditions on a dodge or doing more damage , one suddenly can move faster and clear an Immob.

How is this different from a warrior with fast hands uing a warhorn build to clear conditions, gain swiftness proc Sigils by swapping weapons on a 5 second cooldown then going back to his Greatsword for Rush or hundred blades to get in more speed and damage?

I really think this would help give that boost to the DD spec it so badly needs but would also make from much more fun gameplay.

Nike.2631:

Questions:

• Does Signet of Agility’s active give 100 or 150 endurance to Daredevils?

• Does Superior Sigil of Energy’s on-swap effect give 50 or 75 endurance to Daredevils?

Not sure on either but intend to test this beta.

babazhook.6805:

Shinobi.3240:

Some more ideas … not a must .. just extra flavor

• Endurance Thief – Could actually steal endurance from enemy players.

• Driven Fortitude gets combined with Escapists Absolution – condition clear and a small heal on a successful dodge .. doesn´t sound overpowered to me.

• Staff Master – The 10% extra damage when your endurance is not full was once a minor grandmaster in acrobatics. Worked with all weapons. Could work like that again and just leave the Initiative/endurance part for staff alone.

Best regards!

The idea for Endurance thief actually STEALING endurance off enemy players is a great one.

I like all of these, but have to agree swiping an opposing player’s endurance would be thematically PERFECT for thieves.

Nike.2631:

babazhook.6805:

Shinobi.3240:

Some more ideas … not a must .. just extra flavor

• Endurance Thief – Could actually steal endurance from enemy players.

• Driven Fortitude gets combined with Escapists Absolution – condition clear and a small heal on a successful dodge .. doesn´t sound overpowered to me.

• Staff Master – The 10% extra damage when your endurance is not full was once a minor grandmaster in acrobatics. Worked with all weapons. Could work like that again and just leave the Initiative/endurance part for staff alone.

Best regards!

The idea for Endurance thief actually STEALING endurance off enemy players is a great one.

I like all of these, but have to agree swiping an opposing player’s endurance would be thematically PERFECT for thieves.

It would also be FUN and has a downside built in that being you will steal less than 50 endurance if the enemy has less than that left. I can imagine a couple of thieves going at it with steals trying to time them so as to steal endurance at the opportune time.

Do it karl!

Nike.2631:

Questions:

• Does Signet of Agility’s active give 100 or 150 endurance to Daredevils?

• Does Superior Sigil of Energy’s on-swap effect give 50 or 75 endurance to Daredevils?

I’m pretty sure on the last BWE Signet of Agility restored 100 endurance still. Not sure about Sigil of Energy.

As to all of the complaints about Daredevil traits not being strong enough: If all of the other elite specializations stay as strong as they were previewed to be, then I agree that Daredevil traits probably need to be better. I think the real problem is most of the other elite specializations seem to be so strong that they are not nearly balanced with core trait lines, making them almost required to take. I don’t think this was intended for elite specializations. If the other elite specializations get toned down then Daredevil looks pretty good so far, assuming some things like the dodges get fixed etc. A lot of our core trait lines do need more attention though to make them up to par(mostly Acrobatics), not even necessarily on par with the new elite specializations if they are supposed to be stronger, just at least on par with each other and other class trait lines.

Raiden.1375:

I’m pretty sure on the last BWE Signet of Agility restored 100 endurance still. Not sure about Sigil of Energy.

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As to all of the complaints about Daredevil traits not being strong enough: If all of the other elite specializations stay as strong as they were previewed to be, then I agree that Daredevil traits probably need to be better. I think the real problem is most of the other elite specializations seem to be so strong that they are not nearly balanced with core trait lines, making them almost required to take. I don’t think this was intended for elite specializations. If the other elite specializations get toned down then Daredevil looks pretty good so far, assuming some things like the dodges get fixed etc. A lot of our core trait lines do need more attention though to make them up to par(mostly Acrobatics), not even necessarily on par with the new elite specializations if they are supposed to be stronger, just at least on par with each other and other class trait lines.

So the question here then is what is considered the par? I really think there needs to be more communication from the team responsible for balance for this to really be fleshed out. As it is, we have our own ideas of what balance is, but we have no idea what the devs think is balanced. If we could get more insight on that, then we can help provide feedback for helping them develop the playstyle they think we should have…after all it is their game. We’re simply playing it.

I just pray that developer thinks for 1 min about very poor value of daredevil’s minor gm trait : “steal gives one dodge”. Lets give it at least two or redesign it for sth amazing like all other classes get.