Guild Wars 2

Hey !

I wanted to make a different thread about the daredevil animations instead of doing it in the “[daredevil]-Feedback” thread which I feel is more mechanics oriented.

I tried my best to make new propositions for animations I didn’t like instead of just saying “this one needs a rework”.

Staff Strike & Staff Bash:

• The animation while standing is a large rotating movement and this is great ! But while moving that large movement disappears and all we have is a little swing without much impact.
  I think it would be better if the movement started from further at the back and ended further on the side while moving.

Punishing Strike :

• The animation doesn’t fit the profession at all. I can understand the way it looks on the Revenant’s staff ( surge of the mist is not that different to Punishing strike ) because it is a “magic of the mist” oriented theme and the whirling in the air is plauseable, but the daredevil is not magic oriented.

• The name of the skill is “Punishing strike” and I would have loved to have the feeling that it is really effective like a heavy blow or a succession of staff thrusts ( as an exemple the animation of lotus strike feels really heavy and could deserve the name “Punishing strike” ). What we have for the daredevil is a passive move without that “powerful” feeling.

Vault and Bound

These are my biggest disappointement.

The current animation is something like that:

http://i.imgur.com/macUiOs.png?1 (it’s the first picture in the attachment)

the description tells us this : leap into an area, and deliver a massive blow to the ennemi. I agree with the “deliver a massive blow to the ennemi” part of the animation but the “leap into an area part” is more a “fly up into the sky”. I understand the concept of “I jump really high and the landing has so much energy in it that it blows everything”. But do you need a backflip to do that ? And on the top of it a strange balance shifting before falling vertically because otherwise the “massive blow” part is off?

Why not simply do a front flip:

http://i.imgur.com/1pICS2o.png?1 (it’s the second one in the attachment, I’m not really good with inserting pictures)

Here we have a smooth curve. The overall balance is not broken like the current one and it fit the end of the animation too. And the big advantage is that you already have that kind of animation ready. the zephyrite purple cristal that gives you that crazy jump in Dry Top.

could you tell me why you made those animation choice for vault?

I am well aware of the time one have to spend to make an animation. It pains me a little to see that one of the few new and not reused animations looks bad when I know that you can make wonderful and fluids animations like the thief already have.

To finish with a positive note, I really like the other animations. I find the reuse of the greatsword and the shovel animations ( especially the shovel ) really clever and efficient.

I hope, my comments where constructives and usefull to you.

it is not shovel animation, it is conjured ele lightning hammer animation (don’t emember the number)

agree with thread overall though…..

Spend time to make unique anmations for a Tonic (Monkey King) and recycle animations for a unique class spec. WTF, what were they thinking?

They need to redo the staff animations before HoT.

Cynz.9437:

it is not shovel animation, it is conjured ele lightning hammer animation (don’t emember the number)

agree with thread overall though…..

In fact it’s both ^^ But since the hammer was designed before the shovel, I apologize for that small mistake I made

Here, my ele and my ranger with shovel in the exact same position.

Edit: now I wonder how many animations where reused through the whole game…

Unfortunately, the general consensus with the Daredevil in this beta is that the staff animations rank as one of the worst we’ve ever seen in any game (and after playing the beta myself, I’d have to agree). The character does not even look like they know fundamentally how a bo staff is supposed to function in battle, right down to how they wield it in their stance. It’s slow, clunky (word of the day, apparently), and just plain ugly. And yes, the players notice every detail.

It looks like anet could use some help in understanding how a bo staff actually works in combat. So rather than complaining, this thread seems to have been created with the intention of giving Anet some helpful, constructive tips on how they should be animating this fast, fluid, free-flowing fighting style. So let’s try to be as specific (and positive) as possible!

Here is a good video that demonstrates numerous staff-spinning techniques.

I’ll focus the 3rd hit of the auto attack chain with this post, because it doesn’t seem like anyone is happy with the magically spinning staff. This video demonstrates how the hands are supposed to move when you spin the staff like that (if Anet really wants the staff to spin in front of the character’s body in that manner). But to be honest, I would’ve much rather preferred a spinning strike like demonstration #5 at 2:46 in the video (and it should hit 5 targets within a 180 degree radius). But even #2-4 (starting at 0:51) would’ve been great, as well. Also importantly, look how fast he’s spinning the staff, and he’s actually using his hands, not “the Force” (because the floating staff seems to be spinning kinda slow). If you need to make new graphics similar to spinning helicopter blades while they twirl the staff, it would definitely help give the impression of speed which is what the Daredevil should be all about.

Leviathan.6327:

If you need to make new graphics similar to spinning helicopter blades while they twirl the staff, it would definitely help give the impression of speed which is what the Daredevil should be all about.

This is kinda what I was referring two when I said “spinning helicopter blades.” Granted, Donnie here may be spinning the staff too fast for a game like GW, but you should be able to get the general idea.

Also, it’d be cool if the spin on Punishing Strikes ended in a swift strike like what Donnie shows in this gif.

I am quite disappointed with every animation on daredevil so far. vault and bound are at least new. all the other animations are or looks recycled. with does daredevil get out of ALL elite specs so far the most recycled animations??
this is just so lazy…

knyy.6427:

I am quite disappointed with every animation on daredevil so far. vault and bound are at least new. all the other animations are or looks recycled. with does daredevil get out of ALL elite specs so far the most recycled animations??
this is just so lazy…

Except that the vault and bound animations are direct copies of each other. When you bound, the character literally thrusts an invisible staff into the ground, even if they’re not wielding a staff at all.

I don’t like calling devs in any game lazy, I really don’t. Animating takes a lot of work, but it’s… you know, their job as animators. And I don’t really know how else to describe something like this, unfortunately…

Even the basic animations are things many people seem to be irritated with. The stance, walking, and running animations are just downright terrible. Recycling the hammer animations for these movements is not the way to go when making a fighting style that’s supposed to be convey extreme agility and nimbleness. The hammer animations invoke a sense of weight towards the head of the weapon, as if they’re lugging around a massively heavy hammer, not a lightweight bo staff. If Anet doesn’t want to use the Monkey King’s animation for a battle stance, then something like the first picture here would be a good alternative. The walk and run animations could have the staff situated in a similar behind-the-back position, with the free arm moving like it normally would.

The second picture would just be a cool example of a confident (arrogant even), casual idle animation very suitable for thieves. Another cool idle animation would be a simple behind-the-back twirl as shown in the video I linked again here, technique #6 at 3:20.

Leviathan.6327:

Here is a good video that demonstrates numerous staff-spinning techniques.

Leviathan.6327:

Recycling the hammer animations for these movements is not the way to go when making a fighting style that’s supposed to be convey extreme agility and nimbleness. The hammer animations invoke a sense of weight towards the head of the weapon, as if they’re lugging around a massively heavy hammer, not a lightweight bo staff.

In my opinion that’s the only skill where it is perfectly in sync with the skill itself ( i’m not talking about the use of the skill the main feedback is full of opinions on that ) the daredevil put his staff’s head in the ground which is resisting. That’s why it is convincing for me as an animation.

Wargameur.6950:

Leviathan.6327:

Recycling the hammer animations for these movements is not the way to go when making a fighting style that’s supposed to be convey extreme agility and nimbleness. The hammer animations invoke a sense of weight towards the head of the weapon, as if they’re lugging around a massively heavy hammer, not a lightweight bo staff.

In my opinion that’s the only skill where it is perfectly in sync with the skill itself ( i’m not talking about the use of the skill the main feedback is full of opinions on that ) the daredevil put his staff’s head in the ground which is resisting. That’s why it is convincing for me as an animation.

If you’re talking about skill 4, Dust Strike, then I only somewhat agree with you. Yeah, of all the recycled animations, that one is more or less an okay fit for the skill. But I’m still bothered by the big, slow, lugging shovel swing. It still feels like there’s no finesse or grace to it. Scooping dirt up at your opponent like that is a very viable technique, especially for a thief. But again, to fit the theme of an agile fighter, it should move more swiftly. Maybe add a quick spin before the actual strike to increase the velocity of the staff for when it kicks up the dirt, you know? Have them lift a leg at the end of the swing, too.

Kinda hard to describe in words and I know this picture isn’t the most accurate example of what I’m thinking of, but it’s the best I can do for now. Maybe I’ll do some sketches later on to provide a better picture…

Leviathan.6327:

Wargameur.6950:

Leviathan.6327:

Recycling the hammer animations for these movements is not the way to go when making a fighting style that’s supposed to be convey extreme agility and nimbleness. The hammer animations invoke a sense of weight towards the head of the weapon, as if they’re lugging around a massively heavy hammer, not a lightweight bo staff.

In my opinion that’s the only skill where it is perfectly in sync with the skill itself ( i’m not talking about the use of the skill the main feedback is full of opinions on that ) the daredevil put his staff’s head in the ground which is resisting. That’s why it is convincing for me as an animation.

If you’re talking about skill 4, Dust Strike, then I only somewhat agree with you. Yeah, of all the recycled animations, that one is more or less an okay fit for the skill. But I’m still bothered by the big, slow, lugging shovel swing. It still feels like there’s no finesse or grace to it. Scooping dirt up at your opponent like that is a very viable technique, especially for a thief. But again, to fit the theme of an agile fighter, it should move more swiftly. Maybe add a quick spin before the actual strike to increase the velocity of the staff for when it kicks up the dirt, you know? Have them lift a leg at the end of the swing, too.

Kinda hard to describe in words and I know this picture isn’t the most accurate example of what I’m thinking of, but it’s the best I can do for now. Maybe I’ll do some sketches later on to provide a better picture…

I understand your point. As a master of fluid staff techniques it doesn’t fit very well.

Maybe they could do it that way ( but with the staff of course ) :

(put the video at 3:40 to see what I mean)

Leviathan.6327:

Unfortunately, the general consensus with the Daredevil in this beta is that the staff animations rank as one of the worst we’ve ever seen in any game (and after playing the beta myself, I’d have to agree). The character does not even look like they know fundamentally how a bo staff is supposed to function in battle, right down to how they wield it in their stance. It’s slow, clunky (word of the day, apparently), and just plain ugly. And yes, the players notice every detail.

It looks like anet could use some help in understanding how a bo staff actually works in combat. So rather than complaining, this thread seems to have been created with the intention of giving Anet some helpful, constructive tips on how they should be animating this fast, fluid, free-flowing fighting style. So let’s try to be as specific (and positive) as possible!

Here is a good video that demonstrates numerous staff-spinning techniques.

I’ll focus the 3rd hit of the auto attack chain with this post, because it doesn’t seem like anyone is happy with the magically spinning staff. This video demonstrates how the hands are supposed to move when you spin the staff like that (if Anet really wants the staff to spin in front of the character’s body in that manner). But to be honest, I would’ve much rather preferred a spinning strike like demonstration #5 at 2:46 in the video (and it should hit 5 targets within a 180 degree radius). But even #2-4 (starting at 0:51) would’ve been great, as well. Also importantly, look how fast he’s spinning the staff, and he’s actually using his hands, not “the Force” (because the floating staff seems to be spinning kinda slow). If you need to make new graphics similar to spinning helicopter blades while they twirl the staff, it would definitely help give the impression of speed which is what the Daredevil should be all about.

That 2 handed underarm spin would be great for AA3, and maybe even Bandit’s Defense as you would be blocking all the attacks with a fast defense then knocking someone down. It would still look awesome as a flurry with 1 handed weapons also.

Wargameur.6950:

Leviathan.6327:

Wargameur.6950:

Leviathan.6327:

Recycling the hammer animations for these movements is not the way to go when making a fighting style that’s supposed to be convey extreme agility and nimbleness. The hammer animations invoke a sense of weight towards the head of the weapon, as if they’re lugging around a massively heavy hammer, not a lightweight bo staff.

In my opinion that’s the only skill where it is perfectly in sync with the skill itself ( i’m not talking about the use of the skill the main feedback is full of opinions on that ) the daredevil put his staff’s head in the ground which is resisting. That’s why it is convincing for me as an animation.

If you’re talking about skill 4, Dust Strike, then I only somewhat agree with you. Yeah, of all the recycled animations, that one is more or less an okay fit for the skill. But I’m still bothered by the big, slow, lugging shovel swing. It still feels like there’s no finesse or grace to it. Scooping dirt up at your opponent like that is a very viable technique, especially for a thief. But again, to fit the theme of an agile fighter, it should move more swiftly. Maybe add a quick spin before the actual strike to increase the velocity of the staff for when it kicks up the dirt, you know? Have them lift a leg at the end of the swing, too.

Kinda hard to describe in words and I know this picture isn’t the most accurate example of what I’m thinking of, but it’s the best I can do for now. Maybe I’ll do some sketches later on to provide a better picture…

I understand your point. As a master of fluid staff techniques it doesn’t fit very well.

Maybe they could do it that way ( but with the staff of course ) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukr5c07gaUI

(put the video at 3:40 to see what I mean)

Yeah, I can see a thief twisting in the air like that before the dust strike. Or even a movement like the guy at 1:57, only much faster (and with a staff, obviously). I like that nice, fluid front-leg step he does that transitions so smoothly into the swing. That is a graceful dust strike.

Maugetarr.6823:

Leviathan.6327:

Unfortunately, the general consensus with the Daredevil in this beta is that the staff animations rank as one of the worst we’ve ever seen in any game (and after playing the beta myself, I’d have to agree). The character does not even look like they know fundamentally how a bo staff is supposed to function in battle, right down to how they wield it in their stance. It’s slow, clunky (word of the day, apparently), and just plain ugly. And yes, the players notice every detail.

It looks like anet could use some help in understanding how a bo staff actually works in combat. So rather than complaining, this thread seems to have been created with the intention of giving Anet some helpful, constructive tips on how they should be animating this fast, fluid, free-flowing fighting style. So let’s try to be as specific (and positive) as possible!

Here is a good video that demonstrates numerous staff-spinning techniques.

I’ll focus the 3rd hit of the auto attack chain with this post, because it doesn’t seem like anyone is happy with the magically spinning staff. This video demonstrates how the hands are supposed to move when you spin the staff like that (if Anet really wants the staff to spin in front of the character’s body in that manner). But to be honest, I would’ve much rather preferred a spinning strike like demonstration #5 at 2:46 in the video (and it should hit 5 targets within a 180 degree radius). But even #2-4 (starting at 0:51) would’ve been great, as well. Also importantly, look how fast he’s spinning the staff, and he’s actually using his hands, not “the Force” (because the floating staff seems to be spinning kinda slow). If you need to make new graphics similar to spinning helicopter blades while they twirl the staff, it would definitely help give the impression of speed which is what the Daredevil should be all about.

That 2 handed underarm spin would be great for AA3, and maybe even Bandit’s Defense as you would be blocking all the attacks with a fast defense then knocking someone down. It would still look awesome as a flurry with 1 handed weapons also.

And in addition to that two-handed whirling attack shown in the link there (your Bandit’s Defense comment reminded me), if they wanted to give Daredevils a little more sustainability, they could give them some blocking frames while the staff is being spun (similar to the ranger-greatsword auto attack granting several frames of evasion).

Animations like that would help make a blocking state more feasible, should they decide to implement something like that.

Leviathan.6327:

Maugetarr.6823:

Leviathan.6327:

Unfortunately, the general consensus with the Daredevil in this beta is that the staff animations rank as one of the worst we’ve ever seen in any game (and after playing the beta myself, I’d have to agree). The character does not even look like they know fundamentally how a bo staff is supposed to function in battle, right down to how they wield it in their stance. It’s slow, clunky (word of the day, apparently), and just plain ugly. And yes, the players notice every detail.

It looks like anet could use some help in understanding how a bo staff actually works in combat. So rather than complaining, this thread seems to have been created with the intention of giving Anet some helpful, constructive tips on how they should be animating this fast, fluid, free-flowing fighting style. So let’s try to be as specific (and positive) as possible!

Here is a good video that demonstrates numerous staff-spinning techniques.

I’ll focus the 3rd hit of the auto attack chain with this post, because it doesn’t seem like anyone is happy with the magically spinning staff. This video demonstrates how the hands are supposed to move when you spin the staff like that (if Anet really wants the staff to spin in front of the character’s body in that manner). But to be honest, I would’ve much rather preferred a spinning strike like demonstration #5 at 2:46 in the video (and it should hit 5 targets within a 180 degree radius). But even #2-4 (starting at 0:51) would’ve been great, as well. Also importantly, look how fast he’s spinning the staff, and he’s actually using his hands, not “the Force” (because the floating staff seems to be spinning kinda slow). If you need to make new graphics similar to spinning helicopter blades while they twirl the staff, it would definitely help give the impression of speed which is what the Daredevil should be all about.

That 2 handed underarm spin would be great for AA3, and maybe even Bandit’s Defense as you would be blocking all the attacks with a fast defense then knocking someone down. It would still look awesome as a flurry with 1 handed weapons also.

And in addition to that two-handed whirling attack shown in the link there (your Bandit’s Defense comment reminded me), if they wanted to give Daredevils a little more sustainability, they could give them some blocking frames while the staff is being spun (similar to the ranger-greatsword auto attack granting several frames of evasion).

Animations like that would help make a blocking state more feasible, should they decide to implement something like that.

Yeah. I’m hesitant to put block frames on the weapon, but it could definitely use more evade frames. Staff 2 should be more like warrior GS 3. Staff 5 should be more like guard GS 3. The animations could then be tweaked to fit so actual bo staff attacks after their functionality is fixed.

I may be linking this video several times in this thread…

Leviathan.6327:

Here is a good video that demonstrates numerous staff-spinning techniques.

As for staff skill 3, Debilitating Arc, that animation is just all kinds of bad. It’s a really quick bonk on the head that oftentimes looks like it cuts off midway and horribly jerks into the standard backwards rolling dodge. Absolutely no fluidity whatsoever in that whole move. So here is another suggestion I had in mind.

At the 6 minute mark, he demonstrates a baseball swing that utilizes the entire length of the staff, which is something a thief would want to take advantage of when wielding a bo staff. Specifically, look right at 6:14. See that little backwards hop he does after the swing? Imagine that, but with greater distance covered. Now he ends that technique with one last strike, but the movement of the swing could easily flow right back into a behind-the-back stance like I’ve shown in an earlier post.

That would look worlds better than what we have currently.

Leviathan.6327:

At the 6 minute mark, he demonstrates a baseball swing that utilizes the entire length of the staff, which is something a thief would want to take advantage of when wielding a bo staff. Specifically, look right at 6:14. See that little backwards hop he does after the swing? Imagine that, but with greater distance covered. Now he ends that technique with one last strike, but the movement of the swing could easily flow right back into a behind-the-back stance like I’ve shown in an earlier post.

That would look worlds better than what we have currently.

I agree, that’s the sort of animation that would look great and add diversity to the staff style. The concept is already used by the way, when you are in stealth and you knock down the oponent with the first skill ( this animation is great, I forgot to mention it in my first post, sry Anet). We definitely needs more animations like that.

Maugetarr.6823:

Leviathan.6327:

Maugetarr.6823:

Leviathan.6327:

Unfortunately, the general consensus with the Daredevil in this beta is that the staff animations rank as one of the worst we’ve ever seen in any game (and after playing the beta myself, I’d have to agree). The character does not even look like they know fundamentally how a bo staff is supposed to function in battle, right down to how they wield it in their stance. It’s slow, clunky (word of the day, apparently), and just plain ugly. And yes, the players notice every detail.

It looks like anet could use some help in understanding how a bo staff actually works in combat. So rather than complaining, this thread seems to have been created with the intention of giving Anet some helpful, constructive tips on how they should be animating this fast, fluid, free-flowing fighting style. So let’s try to be as specific (and positive) as possible!

Here is a good video that demonstrates numerous staff-spinning techniques.

I’ll focus the 3rd hit of the auto attack chain with this post, because it doesn’t seem like anyone is happy with the magically spinning staff. This video demonstrates how the hands are supposed to move when you spin the staff like that (if Anet really wants the staff to spin in front of the character’s body in that manner). But to be honest, I would’ve much rather preferred a spinning strike like demonstration #5 at 2:46 in the video (and it should hit 5 targets within a 180 degree radius). But even #2-4 (starting at 0:51) would’ve been great, as well. Also importantly, look how fast he’s spinning the staff, and he’s actually using his hands, not “the Force” (because the floating staff seems to be spinning kinda slow). If you need to make new graphics similar to spinning helicopter blades while they twirl the staff, it would definitely help give the impression of speed which is what the Daredevil should be all about.

That 2 handed underarm spin would be great for AA3, and maybe even Bandit’s Defense as you would be blocking all the attacks with a fast defense then knocking someone down. It would still look awesome as a flurry with 1 handed weapons also.

And in addition to that two-handed whirling attack shown in the link there (your Bandit’s Defense comment reminded me), if they wanted to give Daredevils a little more sustainability, they could give them some blocking frames while the staff is being spun (similar to the ranger-greatsword auto attack granting several frames of evasion).

Animations like that would help make a blocking state more feasible, should they decide to implement something like that.

Yeah. I’m hesitant to put block frames on the weapon, but it could definitely use more evade frames. Staff 2 should be more like warrior GS 3. Staff 5 should be more like guard GS 3. The animations could then be tweaked to fit so actual bo staff attacks after their functionality is fixed.

I’m not sure why one would be hesitant to add some blocking frames to the staff considering that a staff in itself can be utilized as a great defensive weapon. Which is essentially what the AA3 would be if they turned it into a short whirling defense type of move.

Fundamentally, blocking and evading function the same way. They negate damage. Unless you’re referring to the fact that there are some moves that are unblockable (or that some skills proc on block or evade). But I still think it would make sense to add some block frames to AA3 because it should be able to deflect attacks (maybe projectiles, too. I dunno, I’m not focused too much on the mechanics right now) while hard hitting unblockable moves can still power through that defense. I do agree that there should be more evades in the moves, though. Vault, especially. Vaulting high into the air like that is supposed to be like making yourself airborne to avoid damage (at least that’s what I imagine a staff vault would be).

Anyway, I don’t wanna stray too far from the thread’s intended purpose, which is to focus on the animation aspects of the Daredevil. There are plenty of other threads that dive deeper into the core mechanics of the specialization.

They need to look at Aion and the Chanter class, that’s how u do a proper staff animation.

Leviathan.6327:

Maugetarr.6823:

Leviathan.6327:

Maugetarr.6823:

Leviathan.6327:

Unfortunately, the general consensus with the Daredevil in this beta is that the staff animations rank as one of the worst we’ve ever seen in any game (and after playing the beta myself, I’d have to agree). The character does not even look like they know fundamentally how a bo staff is supposed to function in battle, right down to how they wield it in their stance. It’s slow, clunky (word of the day, apparently), and just plain ugly. And yes, the players notice every detail.

It looks like anet could use some help in understanding how a bo staff actually works in combat. So rather than complaining, this thread seems to have been created with the intention of giving Anet some helpful, constructive tips on how they should be animating this fast, fluid, free-flowing fighting style. So let’s try to be as specific (and positive) as possible!

Here is a good video that demonstrates numerous staff-spinning techniques.

I’ll focus the 3rd hit of the auto attack chain with this post, because it doesn’t seem like anyone is happy with the magically spinning staff. This video demonstrates how the hands are supposed to move when you spin the staff like that (if Anet really wants the staff to spin in front of the character’s body in that manner). But to be honest, I would’ve much rather preferred a spinning strike like demonstration #5 at 2:46 in the video (and it should hit 5 targets within a 180 degree radius). But even #2-4 (starting at 0:51) would’ve been great, as well. Also importantly, look how fast he’s spinning the staff, and he’s actually using his hands, not “the Force” (because the floating staff seems to be spinning kinda slow). If you need to make new graphics similar to spinning helicopter blades while they twirl the staff, it would definitely help give the impression of speed which is what the Daredevil should be all about.

That 2 handed underarm spin would be great for AA3, and maybe even Bandit’s Defense as you would be blocking all the attacks with a fast defense then knocking someone down. It would still look awesome as a flurry with 1 handed weapons also.

And in addition to that two-handed whirling attack shown in the link there (your Bandit’s Defense comment reminded me), if they wanted to give Daredevils a little more sustainability, they could give them some blocking frames while the staff is being spun (similar to the ranger-greatsword auto attack granting several frames of evasion).

Animations like that would help make a blocking state more feasible, should they decide to implement something like that.

Yeah. I’m hesitant to put block frames on the weapon, but it could definitely use more evade frames. Staff 2 should be more like warrior GS 3. Staff 5 should be more like guard GS 3. The animations could then be tweaked to fit so actual bo staff attacks after their functionality is fixed.

I’m not sure why one would be hesitant to add some blocking frames to the staff considering that a staff in itself can be utilized as a great defensive weapon. Which is essentially what the AA3 would be if they turned it into a short whirling defense type of move.

Fundamentally, blocking and evading function the same way. They negate damage. Unless you’re referring to the fact that there are some moves that are unblockable (or that some skills proc on block or evade). But I still think it would make sense to add some block frames to AA3 because it should be able to deflect attacks (maybe projectiles, too. I dunno, I’m not focused too much on the mechanics right now) while hard hitting unblockable moves can still power through that defense. I do agree that there should be more evades in the moves, though. Vault, especially. Vaulting high into the air like that is supposed to be like making yourself airborne to avoid damage (at least that’s what I imagine a staff vault would be).

Anyway, I don’t wanna stray too far from the thread’s intended purpose, which is to focus on the animation aspects of the Daredevil. There are plenty of other threads that dive deeper into the core mechanics of the specialization.

Probably because I always think of blocks in terms of the reactive ones which leave you open to the next attack. Look at stuff like counterblow, illusionary counter, illusionary riposte, and counterattack. I’ll admit, this is probably more of a knee jerk reaction to how reactive blocks feel, so if it were simply frames that blocked added to the skills, it would probably be fine. In fact that would likely be easier to balance on the AA3 because it wouldn’t trigger the on-evasion traits.

While asking for entirely NEW animations to be added on top of the existing ones might be asking for too much, I think if we just switch out the 2nd and 4th skills to something existing, we’re on a good path towards fixing the clunkiness:

2nd Skill: Punishing Strikes.

• Replace the Awkward Cyclone Axe spin with the Overhead Spin seen in Revenant’s Autoattack – Rejuvanating Assault. No movement this time, but the functionality of spinning strikes remain.

4th Skill: Dust Strike.

• Remove the Shovel strike, replace with the Staggering Blow Animation. Make the Cone a bit wider and maybe as a result, with a wider arc of dust being blown up.

TheSwede.9512:

While asking for entirely NEW animations to be added on top of the existing ones might be asking for too much, I think if we just switch out the 2nd and 4th skills to something existing, we’re on a good path towards fixing the clunkiness

Not really. Considering this is a brand new fighting style that’s completely unique in what it’s supposed to be all about (fast, nimble, fluid, etc.), animations that actually portray these characteristics accurately should be expected. I don’t think it’s too much to ask that this weapon style looks as good as the original weapons. Honestly, it should have as much polish and attention to detail as all the vanilla weapons. Because as of right now, it undeniably just looks like a tacked-on specialization, like a really poorly animated mod for Skyrim. Very amateurish, not something you’d expect from a professional development team, I’m sorry to say.

Time constraints I’m sure make this stuff difficult, and we may not be able to see new animations by launch. I’m just hoping that Anet takes note of the overwhelming amount of criticism they’re getting in regards to these copy/paste animations, and work towards replacing them in the future when they’ve got a little more breathing room.

Maybe instead of having a block, replace 2 or 3 with an altered skill. For example in one of the videos that was linked before, the bo user spins the staff in front of him in a flurry. Replacing the number 2 which is a pretty pathetic gap closer with a casting flurry that does damage, applies vulnerability with each hit, and stops (not reflect) projectiles, similar to the berserker spec sword flurry. That would be more fitting than a straight up block to me for staff. That way it would be an offensive ability against melee oriented classes but more of a defensive ability against someone trying to use projectiles from range. And by flurry I don’t mean similar to the way it spins in the 3rd attack animation. I mean more like how in the video he goes back and forth to each side, the pinky leads and the two handed flurry he did.

Leviathan.6327:

Here is a good video that demonstrates numerous staff-spinning techniques.

someone bring that man to anet studios and stick him in a mocap suit!

I doesn’t change the problems but current animations are making more sense with heavy staves. There is not a lot of them though.

Now that the beta weekend is pretty much wrapped up, I’d like to give my opinions/criticisms of the specialization, mainly in the animations. I’m gonna skip the combat stance and the auto-attack chain for now since it’s been well noted (but I will come back to them with my ideas for them later). This is going to focus on skills 2, 3, 4, and 5. Also, I played as a human male. So let’s get started, shall we?

Skill #2 – Weakening Charge: Simply put, I don’t know what this is supposed to be. From what I looked at, your character grabs the staff at the head and sort of does a spinning… punch? Meanwhile his legs show no indication of lunging, so you just kind of slide across the floor like a chess piece. Visually, it’s all around bad, like your character has absolutely no clue how to fight with a bo staff.

Skill #3 – Debilitating Arc: This ranks with skill #2 for the worst animations the staff has to offer. It honestly looks more like your character is glitching out. Everything happens way too fast and it’s extremely jerky and choppy. Very obvious cut-and-paste and it doesn’t work well at all for an animation.

Skill #4 – Dust Strike: Obvious use of the hammer, which makes the staff look very weighty and heavy, and the technique looks sloppy because of it.

Skill #5 – Vault: One of the very few new animations, yet this is the skill I have the most to talk about. Firstly, as the name implies, the character should plant his staff into the ground and actually vault from it. That would be much more visually exciting than the instantaneous take-off leap they currently do. Secondly, I feel that the crazy backwards corkscrew triple flip is a little too awkward and doesn’t feel right for a move where you typically propel yourself forward. One or two front flips would give the move a better feel in my opinion.
Finally, the landing. Currently, your character drops straight down, bringing his staff down with the power of Thor, slamming it into the ground with such force that the resulting earth-cracking shock wave damages foes. I feel this completely detracts from the theme of the daredevil. For a spec that’s supposed to be nimble and swift, a brutish slam like what we currently have just feels out of place and more suitable for warriors and guardians. Instead, I propose that the character whirls the staff above his head as he’s falling, following up with a sweeping radial strike the moment he lands.

I spent some time over the weekend sketching up some storyboard concepts of what I feel skills 2, 3, 4, and 5 should look like, along with some notes about them. To anyone interested, please feel free to take a look at them and let me know what you think.

Daredevil staff truly has the potential to be one of the flashiest new weapons HoT has to offer, but after seeing and playing with it in the beta, I can’t help but feel like there wasn’t much care put into the animations. I sincerely hope that there are plans to improve or replace them with unique, mind-blowing animations deserving of a brand-new fighting style (you really can’t compare a staff to a hammer, they’re worlds apart). Looks are so important to the satisfaction of playing a certain class, and the current animations just aren’t satisfying, I’m sorry to say.

Seabreeze.8437:

I spent some time over the weekend sketching up some storyboard concepts of what I feel skills 2, 3, 4, and 5 should look like, along with some notes about them. To anyone interested, please feel free to take a look at them and let me know what you think.

You have put at least 10 times more thought and effort into the staff animations than ArenaNet has.

Each of your mockups is leagues better than what we saw this weekend. If I were to nitpick, I don’t quite agree with you on vault; I do agree that it should be an actual vault, but I think the ‘helicopter spin’ would be just as ‘over-the-top’ as the fancy flippy stuff we have. I’d personally do the initial vault as you suggest, but simply finish the attack with a simple, downward vertical overhead swing that smacks the staff down flush with the ground upon landing. Actually, what I’m imagining for Vault’s impact is exactly what you suggested as the “corkscrew staff slam” for the Charge.

My quibbling aside, though, your suggestions are all fantastic and any of them are the Daredevil we deserve… and the one we need right now.

^ Hey, thank you so much for your comments, Endlos, I really appreciate it!

I’ll admit that when I was drawing up the descent part of my vault concept, I thought that the helicopter spin was a little over-the-top too. Coincidentally, my first draft of the concept didn’t have that wind up, but I got a bit zealous with it and decided to throw in a little flair. Regarding the landing part, the reason why I chose the radial swing is mostly because the attack itself is an AoE damaging move, so I figured a circular sweep would be a better indicator of the exact range of your attack, especially if there is a cool disc-like special effect (nothing magical, just something that emphasizes the speed of your strike). As I said earlier, I just don’t like the current warrior-like ground-shattering slam that we’ve got.

Thanks again for the feedback! I really enjoy seeing other people’s points of view, and I do want this elite spec to improve in every aspect, especially the animations.

I was gonna make a whole post like this around monday but Seabreeze did a perfect job showing it.

I mainly play a charr and the animations for the staff are just terrible, i don’t feel like i am wielding a staff half the time. That simple .

But moving on to more animations issues.

Fist Flurry- This I don’t mind the animation, its decent and not bad. But there needs to be some kinda effect showing off. Giving me the feelin that i am hitin them rapidly. Maybe some particles or like black ,flinging off side to side . Just a lil more “piazza”

Impact Strike- This doesn’t feel or look like i am doin anything to my target, i know it has the properties of "finishing’ somebody , But Anet come on stop re-using SO many animations make that elite stomp feel a lil more noticeable and “impacting” not the generic stomp/finisher.

I have abit more feed back but everbody has already said alot of the problems over and over. I don’t wanna repeat them.

Considering I have issues with staff animation pretty much since BWE1 and the Revenant, I can only agree with everything that was said.
And since I plan to play both of them as Charr ……

I’ll just add that when using Bounding Dodge with weapons other than staff, the way your character holds his weapons is just silly because he will pretend to use one.

Seabreeze.8437:

Now that the beta weekend is pretty much wrapped up, I’d like to give my opinions/criticisms of the specialization, mainly in the animations. I’m gonna skip the combat stance and the auto-attack chain for now since it’s been well noted (but I will come back to them with my ideas for them later). This is going to focus on skills 2, 3, 4, and 5. Also, I played as a human male. So let’s get started, shall we?

Skill #2 – Weakening Charge: Simply put, I don’t know what this is supposed to be. From what I looked at, your character grabs the staff at the head and sort of does a spinning… punch? Meanwhile his legs show no indication of lunging, so you just kind of slide across the floor like a chess piece. Visually, it’s all around bad, like your character has absolutely no clue how to fight with a bo staff.

Skill #3 – Debilitating Arc: This ranks with skill #2 for the worst animations the staff has to offer. It honestly looks more like your character is glitching out. Everything happens way too fast and it’s extremely jerky and choppy. Very obvious cut-and-paste and it doesn’t work well at all for an animation.

Skill #4 – Dust Strike: Obvious use of the hammer, which makes the staff look very weighty and heavy, and the technique looks sloppy because of it.

Skill #5 – Vault: One of the very few new animations, yet this is the skill I have the most to talk about. Firstly, as the name implies, the character should plant his staff into the ground and actually vault from it. That would be much more visually exciting than the instantaneous take-off leap they currently do. Secondly, I feel that the crazy backwards corkscrew triple flip is a little too awkward and doesn’t feel right for a move where you typically propel yourself forward. One or two front flips would give the move a better feel in my opinion.
Finally, the landing. Currently, your character drops straight down, bringing his staff down with the power of Thor, slamming it into the ground with such force that the resulting earth-cracking shock wave damages foes. I feel this completely detracts from the theme of the daredevil. For a spec that’s supposed to be nimble and swift, a brutish slam like what we currently have just feels out of place and more suitable for warriors and guardians. Instead, I propose that the character whirls the staff above his head as he’s falling, following up with a sweeping radial strike the moment he lands.

I spent some time over the weekend sketching up some storyboard concepts of what I feel skills 2, 3, 4, and 5 should look like, along with some notes about them. To anyone interested, please feel free to take a look at them and let me know what you think.

Daredevil staff truly has the potential to be one of the flashiest new weapons HoT has to offer, but after seeing and playing with it in the beta, I can’t help but feel like there wasn’t much care put into the animations. I sincerely hope that there are plans to improve or replace them with unique, mind-blowing animations deserving of a brand-new fighting style (you really can’t compare a staff to a hammer, they’re worlds apart). Looks are so important to the satisfaction of playing a certain class, and the current animations just aren’t satisfying, I’m sorry to say.

OMG Seabreeze you’re pretty amazing with your sketches. Nicely done.

Anet hire him now! He clearly knows what effort should go into the design of an a character spec. Which is the same effort that other classes have been getting especially Rev. We’ve all known for a long time Thief isn’t the favourite class of any dev but please don’t patch our new mechanics together with recycled parts from other aspects of the game. :/

Seabreeze.8437:

Now that the beta weekend is pretty much wrapped up, I’d like to give my opinions/criticisms of the specialization, mainly in the animations. I’m gonna skip the combat stance and the auto-attack chain for now since it’s been well noted (but I will come back to them with my ideas for them later). This is going to focus on skills 2, 3, 4, and 5. Also, I played as a human male. So let’s get started, shall we?

Skill #2 – Weakening Charge: Simply put, I don’t know what this is supposed to be. From what I looked at, your character grabs the staff at the head and sort of does a spinning… punch? Meanwhile his legs show no indication of lunging, so you just kind of slide across the floor like a chess piece. Visually, it’s all around bad, like your character has absolutely no clue how to fight with a bo staff.

Skill #3 – Debilitating Arc: This ranks with skill #2 for the worst animations the staff has to offer. It honestly looks more like your character is glitching out. Everything happens way too fast and it’s extremely jerky and choppy. Very obvious cut-and-paste and it doesn’t work well at all for an animation.

Skill #4 – Dust Strike: Obvious use of the hammer, which makes the staff look very weighty and heavy, and the technique looks sloppy because of it.

Skill #5 – Vault: One of the very few new animations, yet this is the skill I have the most to talk about. Firstly, as the name implies, the character should plant his staff into the ground and actually vault from it. That would be much more visually exciting than the instantaneous take-off leap they currently do. Secondly, I feel that the crazy backwards corkscrew triple flip is a little too awkward and doesn’t feel right for a move where you typically propel yourself forward. One or two front flips would give the move a better feel in my opinion.
Finally, the landing. Currently, your character drops straight down, bringing his staff down with the power of Thor, slamming it into the ground with such force that the resulting earth-cracking shock wave damages foes. I feel this completely detracts from the theme of the daredevil. For a spec that’s supposed to be nimble and swift, a brutish slam like what we currently have just feels out of place and more suitable for warriors and guardians. Instead, I propose that the character whirls the staff above his head as he’s falling, following up with a sweeping radial strike the moment he lands.

I spent some time over the weekend sketching up some storyboard concepts of what I feel skills 2, 3, 4, and 5 should look like, along with some notes about them. To anyone interested, please feel free to take a look at them and let me know what you think.

Daredevil staff truly has the potential to be one of the flashiest new weapons HoT has to offer, but after seeing and playing with it in the beta, I can’t help but feel like there wasn’t much care put into the animations. I sincerely hope that there are plans to improve or replace them with unique, mind-blowing animations deserving of a brand-new fighting style (you really can’t compare a staff to a hammer, they’re worlds apart). Looks are so important to the satisfaction of playing a certain class, and the current animations just aren’t satisfying, I’m sorry to say.

Please Anet take everything this person posted into consideration. His simple mock drawings far surpass any of what daredevil currently offers with its staff animations minus vault. I am ok with abets vault. In fact he literally landed exactly what I was expecting to see on each and every move. Like these are soooo perfect.. Please Anet do these animations and i am 100% sticking to this game for life lol. View his post to see his attachments te drawings are spot on!!

Seabreeze.8437:

I spent some time over the weekend sketching up some storyboard concepts of what I feel skills 2, 3, 4, and 5 should look like, along with some notes about them. To anyone interested, please feel free to take a look at them and let me know what you think.

Awesome job done on these animations ( I’m almost ashamed of my vault’s ones ^^ ).

I think that dust strike would makes more sense if the whirling was made after the throw as a finishing stance to get the staff back in place. As I see it, during a whirling the hands are placed in the middle so the wide swing after that part would lack strengh. With the speed of the rotation, I find it hard to get one hand in the middle and one hand at the bottom of the staff.

The rapid thrust would definetly be one of the best candidate from the auto-attack #3 instead of the “chop-chop magic helicopter” we currently have.

this is a side question: what brush do you use and what size ? it gives your charater more consistance. ( don’t answer just to this, it’s still a gw2 focused thread )

Seabreeze.8437:

Now that the beta weekend is pretty much wrapped up, I’d like to give my opinions/criticisms of the specialization, mainly in the animations. I’m gonna skip the combat stance and the auto-attack chain for now since it’s been well noted (but I will come back to them with my ideas for them later). This is going to focus on skills 2, 3, 4, and 5. …

This is so much better than what we saw. Only helicopter vault is over the top. If you spend only few hours on this it makes me wonder how long they spent on whole class. 30 minutes?

The feedback is mostly repetitive from others. so its obvious what needs ta bee done :/

that idea for dust strike though….

make it like black powder cept add a whirl finisher at the end instead of projectile finisher and keep the 3 impacts but add it in whirl finisher directions, we can stay in fights with allies AND go back line with it, but make it pulse the same as black powder, however make the field longer but have a 3 second pulse for the blind 1 second per pulse. since our autoattack with staff chain 3 can be a whirl itll open up doors for combos

Wow, Seabreeze you did an amazing job there! I really hope they consider some ideas.

Wow, thanks for all the feedback guys! I’m glad there are so many people here with the same passion to make the staff reach its potential.

I know that there is a lot that goes into animating, and I don’t want to take away from all the positive things Anet has been doing with HoT, but for a completely new fighting style like this (given that staff was previously a magic-only weapon) I feel that there really should be no shortcuts taken. As others have said, DD staff deserves to look as good as it sounds.

Wargameur.6950:

Awesome job done on these animations ( I’m almost ashamed of my vault’s ones ^^ ).

this is a side question: what brush do you use and what size ? it gives your charater more consistance. ( don’t answer just to this, it’s still a gw2 focused thread )

Actually, it was your thread and pics that inspired me to make my own, so thank you for starting it! I really like how your first drawing points out the awkwardness of vault’s current animation. Also, I’m using Adobe Flash with the smallest size paint brush for the model and the third size up for the bo staff. I find Flash to be the simplest program for quick concept sketches like this.

Wargameur.6950:

I think that dust strike would makes more sense if the whirling was made after the throw as a finishing stance to get the staff back in place. As I see it, during a whirling the hands are placed in the middle so the wide swing after that part would lack strengh. With the speed of the rotation, I find it hard to get one hand in the middle and one hand at the bottom of the staff.

The rapid thrust would definetly be one of the best candidate from the auto-attack #3 instead of the “chop-chop magic helicopter” we currently have.

I see your point, and I definitely wouldn’t mind seeing the auto-attack 3 as a rapid thrust attack. The no-hands magic twirl just doesn’t feel right, y’know?

By the way, I altered my original concept for vault and redrew the descent frame to exclude the helicopter spin for those that want to see how it would look. I’ve got some more ideas that I’d like to sketch up, and I’ll probably do some more when I get the time. Thanks again for the comments, guys!

I’ll just echo what everyone else is saying… Seabreeze, you’re on the money here. Fast, flashy attacks that take advantage of the daredevil’s martial arts background and the sweeping range of a staff. You’re brilliant

I’ve got some ideas for the charr version of the staff skills. I don’t have as much time during the week, so I may not have something to post until the weekend, but I’ll still give my 2-cents whenever I can.

I like the idea that Leviathan suggested here about giving the third auto-attack blocking frames. I think it’d really help provide some much-needed defense, and as Maugetarr stated, it would be easier to balance since it wouldn’t proc any “on evade” traits. If Anet wants to keep the whirling attack at the end of the chain, then having it block for the duration of it would be most beneficial to us (and destroy projectiles, probably not reflect though, that may be too much).

Keep up the great ideas, everyone!

Seabreeze.8437:

I’ve got some ideas for the charr version of the staff skills. I don’t have as much time during the week, so I may not have something to post until the weekend, but I’ll still give my 2-cents whenever I can.

I like the idea that Leviathan suggested here about giving the third auto-attack blocking frames. I think it’d really help provide some much-needed defense, and as Maugetarr stated, it would be easier to balance since it wouldn’t proc any “on evade” traits. If Anet wants to keep the whirling attack at the end of the chain, then having it block for the duration of it would be most beneficial to us (and destroy projectiles, probably not reflect though, that may be too much).

Keep up the great ideas, everyone!

Reposted your pictures as a new thread to try to get them more attention, feel free to post mine wherever to get your fantastic idea out there! I would love to see those become the actual animations.

Seabreeze.8437:

I spent some time over the weekend sketching up some storyboard concepts of what I feel skills 2, 3, 4, and 5 should look like, along with some notes about them. To anyone interested, please feel free to take a look at them and let me know what you think.

The amount of work you put into those sketches is really impressive. It’s clear you have a good sense of form and posture, and you put forth some very compelling animation suggestions. I wish there was a way to make A-net aware of it.

Wow, those concepts are beyond impressive, Seabreeze! Job well done! I agree 100% with all of your suggestions.

I know a couple people say they’re fine with the vault skill (and it’s not as bad compared to the other skills), but I really think that if they’re gonna call it vault, it should actually be a vault. Right now they just kinda spring in the air suddenly doing crazy flips. Also the fact that the move ends with a brutish slam that sends damaging shock waves is completely unfitting for a thief. Again, like Seabreeze said, an earth-shattering slam like that seems more along the lines of a warrior type of move. And although I like the idea Endlos had with having a staff slam like concept #2 of Weakening Charge as the vault’s landing, since the attack is an AoE, a radial sweep would just make more sense.

Honestly, these were the kinds of animations I was hoping to see out of the Daredevil specialization. Not this heap of recycled animations that don’t even make sense.

Leviathan.6327:

knyy.6427:

I am quite disappointed with every animation on daredevil so far. vault and bound are at least new. all the other animations are or looks recycled. with does daredevil get out of ALL elite specs so far the most recycled animations??
this is just so lazy…

Except that the vault and bound animations are direct copies of each other. When you bound, the character literally thrusts an invisible staff into the ground, even if they’re not wielding a staff at all.

I don’t like calling devs in any game lazy, I really don’t. Animating takes a lot of work, but it’s… you know, their job as animators. And I don’t really know how else to describe something like this, unfortunately…

I also dont like to call somebody who animates for a game lazy as but i have a feeling its not the animators fault at this as its more of a “save time, re-use it” choice that anet devs have taken since HoT is almost a 1 1/2 months away. I study and learned animation at university and i honestly do not want to believe that that was all the heart and soul put into the Daredevil animation because for somebody who loves animating, you want it to look as close as believable than anything. And what we currently got just doesn’t sell to me.

DD is 95% reused animations used inappropriately, so yeah, hard to feel any heart there. I know HoT is a month and a half away, but DD still deserves some pizazz.

just saw these suggestions and a lot of them are really good, especially Seabreeze’s concepts! i also think those 2 robin stances Leviathan posted way up there would look really cool for our thieves!

also i’m glad this thread is trying to stay as positive and constructive as possible. for as much as these animations are lacking, getting angry and insulting the devs would not be a good way to convince them to consider some animation reworks.

what you guys think actually? we could try to ask in the revenant forum for staff holding animation changes?

this thread also has some fantastic ideas for staff thief animations. while the thread itself is a bit old, i still feel it’s very relevant (not to mention important considering the current state of staff thief animations).

hopefully this’ll spark some inspiration for anet to consider reworking the animations so they’re not so blatantly recycled from the hammer.