Guild Wars 2

Brutalistik.6473:

Daecollo.9578:

Brutalistik.6473:

Daecollo.9578:

Maliss.1248:

AlBundy.7851:

lol hmm pvt gear no food and no damage increase utilities and pulling off 20k hb and 16k killshots. unlikely unless the ppl you were attacking were lvl 1’s.

PVT armor, not gear. I was running full ruby trinkets and divinity runes. Rifle was PVT but Great Sword was zerker.

I have no idea what level they were but I was consistently getting those numbers on Keep lords as well as players. Should note this was all in a zerg so I’m sure I was getting buffs and my targets were getting debuffed.

I think people learned how to “DODGE” from back then, 100b is the easiest ability in the game to avoid.

I wish they would greatly nerf its damage and make it mobile.

I don’t think that would make 100blades worthwhile especially to those who play bunker builds. It will just make 100blades laughable damage and I can assure you warriors will switch to axe main hand immediately.

It already is laughable damage, people can simply walk out of it.

and nerfing it would only make it worst so you just countered your own answered. Some warriors just gotta stop treating 100blades is the winning move in pvp since they know it can be avoided. When I fooled around with GS the only way I got my opponents in a 100blades barrage is when they used all of their endurance up / condition removal to get out of my immobilize. Yeah I spilled the beans there, but people will tend to forget anyway except experts. Bolas comes in handy when you have LB / GS combo + leg specialist.

P.S let’s not derail the thread now with irrelevant stuff even though some got through.

If it was MOBILE, channeled 2x faster and did 50% less damage with a slight cool-down reduction, it would be a LOT better of an attack.

Repeatedly strike multiple foes. The last strike does extra damage.
Damage (8x): 812
Final strike damage: 406
Range: 170
Cooldown: 6s. (down from 8s.)
Channel: 1.5 (down from 3.5)

No more derailing.

Daecollo.9578:

Leo G.4501:

Brutalistik.6473:

They just do not want to see a warrior become competitive / gain buffs.

..did…did you not read my other posts in the thread or something?

Leo G, you said before that Adrenal Health healed for 360 hp/s… I mean its obvious you don’t even play a warrior. I know you like ranger and they are very good, but rangers are in a VERY good place atm, please go back to the ranger forum.

None of my threads have anything to do with nerfing rangers, I just wanna buff warriors to be on-par with rangers.

Man I have been with you up till this post lol. Ranger is not in a good place. Thats like saying engi is in a good place because there is the HGH and SD build. Ranger does well in spvp and tpvp with traps and some bm builds but pve and wvw ranger is lacking. Some of the last changes helped out with pet aggro but not with them dying so quick and a good chunk of damage is rolled into thier pets. Spirits are still pointless to build around and ranged weapons are lacking. Now if you wanna say mesmer or guardian are in a good spot then I would have to agree with you.

With all that said I do hope the signet gets a good change or moved over to be a utility skill.

Brutalistik.6473:

Daecollo.9578:

Brutalistik.6473:

Daecollo.9578:

Maliss.1248:

AlBundy.7851:

lol hmm pvt gear no food and no damage increase utilities and pulling off 20k hb and 16k killshots. unlikely unless the ppl you were attacking were lvl 1’s.

PVT armor, not gear. I was running full ruby trinkets and divinity runes. Rifle was PVT but Great Sword was zerker.

I have no idea what level they were but I was consistently getting those numbers on Keep lords as well as players. Should note this was all in a zerg so I’m sure I was getting buffs and my targets were getting debuffed.

I think people learned how to “DODGE” from back then, 100b is the easiest ability in the game to avoid.

I wish they would greatly nerf its damage and make it mobile.

I don’t think that would make 100blades worthwhile especially to those who play bunker builds. It will just make 100blades laughable damage and I can assure you warriors will switch to axe main hand immediately.

It already is laughable damage, people can simply walk out of it.

and nerfing it would only make it worst so you just countered your own answered. Some warriors just gotta stop treating 100blades is the winning move in pvp since they know it can be avoided. When I fooled around with GS the only way I got my opponents in a 100blades barrage is when they used all of their endurance up / condition removal to get out of my immobilize. Yeah I spilled the beans there, but people will tend to forget anyway except experts. Bolas comes in handy when you have LB / GS combo + leg specialist.

P.S let’s not derail the thread now with irrelevant stuff even though some got through.

People go into GS for the mobile strikes and the number 3 (invulnerability)+5 for gap closers. 100b is just useless kitten on the side. I wouldn’t go into GS if there was a weapon that offered all that.

Its sad to see all we do as warriors is scamper to try and close gaps while very other class in the game takes that as a give.

Thieves: Reach you via stealth which can be used repeatedly and they are NOT revealed on being hit..I wonder if the dev who thought of that is still working for Anet.

Mesmers:Stealth, teleports etc etc they are range. They only go close in for melee when they use sword 2: 2 seconds of invulnerability to cc/damage/dots being applied at the time and it has a 10 sec cooldown..really? No body thought that was OP?really? Guess they are nerfing it after the ppl playing the class got bored with it.

The list goes on and on. Hell..we get destroyed if we go vs guardian in melee.

So if I can’t reach my target..and even if I reach a guardian I get destroyed..I’m not sure what to do.. Oh yea..switch to another class..

They made a huge mistake by removing healers. This lead to less group play and synergy and resulted in OP classes and builds. This made pvp stale and boring. Ppl play pvp to have fun as a group..solo play is boring..

Mind you, not relying on healers in dungeons is great! So have fun in the dungeons while the spvp arenas keep dwindling day by day.

Can we please get this topic back on the mark and talk about Healing Signet? The derailing’s gotten pretty out of hand.

The goal of Healing Signet is to have a means to provide substantial passive healing. This kind of healing is naturally suited towards sturdier builds where high levels of sustainable healing mesh well with the increased eHP durable builds provide.

To this effect, I’d like to see the scaling on Healing Signet improved such that those who are willing to build towards that sturdiness (and are willing to invest in Healing Power) should be rewarded with a skill that scales with the build appropriately. At this point, a coefficient of .033 is just too low to warrant an investment in Healing Power.

Some people have mentioned adding a stun break to the ability, but since this skill has a 16s cooldown when traited I don’t really think that’s the best idea. We already have several skills that break stun that tend to be on our bars as is (Shake It Off, Endure Pain, Balanced Stance, etc.)

I’m still not sure on how well the active should scale or be balanced – it should be low enough to encourage leaving the signed off cooldown to leverage the passive but not so low where activating it feels useless.

Koppartikus.2396:

Can we please get this topic back on the mark and talk about Healing Signet? The derailing’s gotten pretty out of hand.

The goal of Healing Signet is to have a means to provide substantial passive healing. This kind of healing is naturally suited towards sturdier builds where high levels of sustainable healing mesh well with the increased eHP durable builds provide.

To this effect, I’d like to see the scaling on Healing Signet improved such that those who are willing to build towards that sturdiness (and are willing to invest in Healing Power) should be rewarded with a skill that scales with the build appropriately. At this point, a coefficient of .033 is just too low to warrant an investment in Healing Power.

Some people have mentioned adding a stun break to the ability, but since this skill has a 16s cooldown when traited I don’t really think that’s the best idea. We already have several skills that break stun that tend to be on our bars as is (Shake It Off, Endure Pain, Balanced Stance, etc.)

I’m still not sure on how well the active should scale or be balanced – it should be low enough to encourage leaving the signed off cooldown to leverage the passive but not so low where activating it feels useless.

Why wouldn’t you think a stun break on the healing signer is a good idea..?

Thieves have their shadowstep/stun breaker from their sword on zero cooldown all the time and it stun breaks AND teleports you a limitless distance back if you anchor yourself somewhere.

Other classes have their stun break on their weapon skill which is instant and on demand with zero cooldown while you say healing signet shouldn’t get a stun breaker?

This is the reason warrior’s don’t get buffed. People are not fully away of what the other classes are capable of doing and thus always don’t encourage significant warrior buffs.

Koppartikus.2396:

Can we please get this topic back on the mark and talk about Healing Signet? The derailing’s gotten pretty out of hand.

The goal of Healing Signet is to have a means to provide substantial passive healing. This kind of healing is naturally suited towards sturdier builds where high levels of sustainable healing mesh well with the increased eHP durable builds provide.

To this effect, I’d like to see the scaling on Healing Signet improved such that those who are willing to build towards that sturdiness (and are willing to invest in Healing Power) should be rewarded with a skill that scales with the build appropriately. At this point, a coefficient of .033 is just too low to warrant an investment in Healing Power.

Some people have mentioned adding a stun break to the ability, but since this skill has a 16s cooldown when traited I don’t really think that’s the best idea. We already have several skills that break stun that tend to be on our bars as is (Shake It Off, Endure Pain, Balanced Stance, etc.)

I’m still not sure on how well the active should scale or be balanced – it should be low enough to encourage leaving the signed off cooldown to leverage the passive but not so low where activating it feels useless.

I personally think it should be moved to a utility skill and condition cleansing could be added to it instead of the active heal. Since the dev post did say they want to see it in more damage oriented builds, this should fit best. They can then add a heal that maybe blocks for a short duration while healing a small amount or a short cd heal that gives a couple boons, like protection and regen.

At the same time they should give dolyak’s active to stamina and then give dolyak protection as an active. Works in my mind.

As a friendly reminder to everyone, please stay on topic. If there is somethine else that you would like to discuss but it is not on topic for the current discussion, please feel free to create search for an existing one or create a new discussion.

XII.9401:

Koppartikus.2396:

Can we please get this topic back on the mark and talk about Healing Signet? The derailing’s gotten pretty out of hand.

The goal of Healing Signet is to have a means to provide substantial passive healing. This kind of healing is naturally suited towards sturdier builds where high levels of sustainable healing mesh well with the increased eHP durable builds provide.

To this effect, I’d like to see the scaling on Healing Signet improved such that those who are willing to build towards that sturdiness (and are willing to invest in Healing Power) should be rewarded with a skill that scales with the build appropriately. At this point, a coefficient of .033 is just too low to warrant an investment in Healing Power.

Some people have mentioned adding a stun break to the ability, but since this skill has a 16s cooldown when traited I don’t really think that’s the best idea. We already have several skills that break stun that tend to be on our bars as is (Shake It Off, Endure Pain, Balanced Stance, etc.)

I’m still not sure on how well the active should scale or be balanced – it should be low enough to encourage leaving the signed off cooldown to leverage the passive but not so low where activating it feels useless.

Why wouldn’t you think a stun break on the healing signer is a good idea..?

Thieves have their shadowstep/stun breaker from their sword on zero cooldown all the time and it stun breaks AND teleports you a limitless distance back if you anchor yourself somewhere.

Other classes have their stun break on their weapon skill which is instant and on demand with zero cooldown while you say healing signet shouldn’t get a stun breaker?

This is the reason warrior’s don’t get buffed. People are not fully away of what the other classes are capable of doing and thus always don’t encourage significant warrior buffs.

Because you don’t provide any substantial reasons as to why it should be attached to the skill other than “Well X profession has this so we want it too!”

Do Warriors need more stun breakers? I don’t think they do. And I don’t think we should just tack things onto Healing Signet that don’t fit with the design of the ability.

The main problem with Healing Signet is that the chief reason for using it doesn’t work because it can’t sustain less durable builds and isn’t worth it for more durable builds. Fixing the ability isn’t supposed to fix the class, it’s supposed to make the ability become a desirable option.

Healing Signet doesn’t work for any builds, it heals almost as much as a boon, its a HEALING skill, it should heal for a lot more.

Koppartikus.2396:

Do Warriors need more stun breakers? I don’t think they do. And I don’t think we should just tack things onto Healing Signet that don’t fit with the design of the ability.

The main problem with Healing Signet is that the chief reason for using it doesn’t work because it can’t sustain less durable builds and isn’t worth it for more durable builds. Fixing the ability isn’t supposed to fix the class, it’s supposed to make the ability become a desirable option.

Is the Warrior suddenly overpowered if it has a stun break on a 16s cooldown WITH the talent and if the Healing Signet is chosen? Compare that to say Necro stun break (just for an example)…discuss

Also, I am pretty sure the opposite should happen…Healing Surge’s base value should probably be increased (240-260 HP/second range, rough numbers, can always tweak it) with healing contribution either remaining the same or slightly decreasing further as to not make it far too valuable with Cleric gear.

Artaz.3819:

Koppartikus.2396:

Do Warriors need more stun breakers? I don’t think they do. And I don’t think we should just tack things onto Healing Signet that don’t fit with the design of the ability.

The main problem with Healing Signet is that the chief reason for using it doesn’t work because it can’t sustain less durable builds and isn’t worth it for more durable builds. Fixing the ability isn’t supposed to fix the class, it’s supposed to make the ability become a desirable option.

Is the Warrior suddenly overpowered if it has a stun break on a 16s cooldown WITH the talent and if the Healing Signet is chosen? Compare that to say Necro stun break (just for an example)…discuss

Also, I am pretty sure the opposite should happen…Healing Surge’s base value should probably be increased (240-260 HP/second range, rough numbers, can always tweak it) with healing contribution either remaining the same or slightly decreasing further as to not make it far too valuable with Cleric gear.

I’m still not sure why we’re talking about stun breaks. A stun break is not going to make people start using this ability. The main problem with the ability is that it does not heal for enough under the conditions where it’s supposed to shine – passive sustained healing.

My whole point is that people tend to kitchen sink buffs under the guise of meaningful improvements, and in most cases these buffs don’t really address the root cause of why the ability is lackluster in the first place.

I’m not saying that Healing Signet doesn’t need something extra, but I’m saying we should fix it first before trying to jump to ways to further improve it. It’s a healing skill, and it’s not healing for enough at level 80. The questions we should be asking are, “Why is it insufficient?”, and “Under what circumstances is it failing?” Once we understand this, we can begin addressing the problem correctly.

The suggestion of adding a stun break, in this example, answers neither.

My original idea stays the same with healing signet receiving a healing buff with it’s passive regen / active and the more healing power the warrior have. The better the results you’ll receive and it would be nice if Adrenal Health scaled as well with Healing power.

Brutalistik.6473:

My original idea stays the same with healing signet receiving a healing buff with it’s passive regen / active and the more healing power the warrior have. The better the results you’ll receive and it would be nice if Adrenal Health scaled as well with Healing power.

Personally I would like to have the heal just be increased and the healing power contribution meaning more but Jon Peters said in his post he thinks the heal does fine in healing power builds already. I think he is just going to lightly buff the base heal of the passive and lower the healing power contribution to keep it close to where it is now in clerics builds. I don’t agree with this but haven’t seen many big changes and I don’t think we will see a big change with the signet. I’m thinking we might see a 300 heal base with the active staying the same. Possibly with an added stun breaker since he does mention a stun breaker in his post. I don’t think anyone will be using it still.

I am still crossing my fingers for it to be moved over into a utility slot.

Well, he mentions a stun breaker for signets, not particularly for Healing Signet. If any signet gets a stun break it’ll be Dolyak’s, since it’s our defensive signet that provides stability – stun breaks tend to be paired with stability or inherently defensive abilities across the board when you look at the skills of all of the professions.

I’m still not sure how Jon thinks the ability scales well – as a rule its activated heal scaling is on par with similar abilities (Signet of Malice, Signet of Restoration) but the scaling on their passive abilities is significantly better than ours – .05 and .1 respectively, against .033. I think a coefficient between .05 and .08 would put it in line to scale reasonably well with considerable Healing Power. Perhaps he’s looking at the defensive Tactics based Cleric’s build as a whole (with Inspiring Banners or Vigorous Shouts) and not realizing that the bulk of the sustainability doesn’t come from the signet’s scaling but with the already substantial healing the spec itself gives.

YourOwnFear.2743:

Brutalistik.6473:

My original idea stays the same with healing signet receiving a healing buff with it’s passive regen / active and the more healing power the warrior have. The better the results you’ll receive and it would be nice if Adrenal Health scaled as well with Healing power.

Personally I would like to have the heal just be increased and the healing power contribution meaning more but Jon Peters said in his post he thinks the heal does fine in healing power builds already. I think he is just going to lightly buff the base heal of the passive and lower the healing power contribution to keep it close to where it is now in clerics builds. I don’t agree with this but haven’t seen many big changes and I don’t think we will see a big change with the signet. I’m thinking we might see a 300 heal base with the active staying the same. Possibly with an added stun breaker since he does mention a stun breaker in his post. I don’t think anyone will be using it still.

I am still crossing my fingers for it to be moved over into a utility slot.

As long he tries out cleric / shaman build in competitive pvp and I am talking about the real deal and not no twitch tv premade match they’ve setup early this week or last because that’s not likely how it goes. I can then he’ll probably notice what needs to be buff. I can tell you that the regen needs a buff along with Adrenal health scaling with heal power because as of now. Warriors can’t bunker well holding a node unlike ele, rangers, necros, guardians, mesmers or engineers. It’s really a suicide rough challenge believe it or not.

I can say from my experience as a healing bunker warrior is that they’re the regeneration healers in gw2 like rangers, necros and thieves , but with less survivability.

I’m not saying pity the bunker warrior, but just speaking from what I seen they’re capable of on the battlefield.

Daecollo.9578:

Healing Signet doesn’t work for any builds, it heals almost as much as a boon, its a HEALING skill, it should heal for a lot more.

The way such skills are balanced, it’s how they potentially stack with similar effects. If it were a regen effect that didn’t stack with the Regeneration boon (choosing whichever provided the higher heal) then yeah, the skill would likely heal for a good deal more.

But thankfully it can stack with other passive healing which is likely how it was meant to be built for: use the skill if you have good access to regen, stack adrenal health and one extra passive-ish heal (like sigil of blood, dolyak rune, pie) to muster around 400 HPS.

This is all passive healing though. You don’t just use passive healing and expect to be a-okay. Use some active healing (usually healing shouts) or active defense and you’ve got your tanky warrior…still, signet active could be better for the folks not aiming at that specific build (as well as improving the scaling so it’s worthwhile to build for tankiness).

The skill should “not be balanced” around other similar effects, it should stand on its own way way above Adrenal Health/Regeneration. The fact that a healing skill is even close to a trait and a boon sickens me.

Leo G.4501:

Daecollo.9578:

Healing Signet doesn’t work for any builds, it heals almost as much as a boon, its a HEALING skill, it should heal for a lot more.

The way such skills are balanced, it’s how they potentially stack with similar effects. If it were a regen effect that didn’t stack with the Regeneration boon (choosing whichever provided the higher heal) then yeah, the skill would likely heal for a good deal more.

But thankfully it can stack with other passive healing which is likely how it was meant to be built for: use the skill if you have good access to regen, stack adrenal health and one extra passive-ish heal (like sigil of blood, dolyak rune, pie) to muster around 400 HPS.

This is all passive healing though. You don’t just use passive healing and expect to be a-okay. Use some active healing (usually healing shouts) or active defense and you’ve got your tanky warrior…still, signet active could be better for the folks not aiming at that specific build (as well as improving the scaling so it’s worthwhile to build for tankiness).

I’m not sure why you’re adding pve into this when they’re truly focus on Spvp. I didn’t mind your post until you mention you’ve got your tanky warrior if that’s how you vision them.

It doesn’t work like that how you’re describing it. What makes a good tanky warrior as Brutal says is regen. When shouts are on cool down healing signet passive won’t be enough for a bunker warrior. If warriors had burst heals like guardians and elementalists then shout healing is the way for warriors. Bunker warriors = regen with the combine power Healing Signet Passive, Adrenal Health and Banner regeneration. Yes they could use a buff like a buff in their regen to scale better with healing power.

My suggestion is for a bunker warrior is that they need more vigor boon support, protection, and passive condition removal traits. Now will this make them highly unstoppable? Not at all.

FenGuild.1097:

Leo G.4501:

Daecollo.9578:

Healing Signet doesn’t work for any builds, it heals almost as much as a boon, its a HEALING skill, it should heal for a lot more.

The way such skills are balanced, it’s how they potentially stack with similar effects. If it were a regen effect that didn’t stack with the Regeneration boon (choosing whichever provided the higher heal) then yeah, the skill would likely heal for a good deal more.

But thankfully it can stack with other passive healing which is likely how it was meant to be built for: use the skill if you have good access to regen, stack adrenal health and one extra passive-ish heal (like sigil of blood, dolyak rune, pie) to muster around 400 HPS.

This is all passive healing though. You don’t just use passive healing and expect to be a-okay. Use some active healing (usually healing shouts) or active defense and you’ve got your tanky warrior…still, signet active could be better for the folks not aiming at that specific build (as well as improving the scaling so it’s worthwhile to build for tankiness).

I’m not sure why you’re adding pve into this when they’re truly focus on Spvp. I didn’t mind your post until you mention you’ve got your tanky warrior if that’s how you vision them.

It doesn’t work like that how you’re describing it. What makes a good tanky warrior as Brutal says is regen. When shouts are on cool down healing signet passive won’t be enough for a bunker warrior. If warriors had burst heals like guardians and elementalists then shout healing is the way for warriors. Bunker warriors = regen with the combine power Healing Signet Passive, Adrenal Health and Banner regeneration. Yes they could use a buff like a buff in their regen to scale better with healing power.

My suggestion is for a bunker warrior is that they need more vigor boon support, protection, and passive condition removal traits. Now will this make them highly unstoppable? Not at all.

I already made a suggestion for a trait where each bar of adrenaline would convert a condition into a boon.

However, we need special healing on top of our own special condition removal. Healing per second is a boring unskillful mechanic.

FenGuild.1097:

I’m not sure why you’re adding pve into this when they’re truly focus on Spvp.

Lol I said one word that’d qualify it as PvE: pie. The rest stands on its own and you can simply disregard that single example. I also mention active defense (because that’s how you make more HP work harder for you) which is a whole other matter outside of Healing Signet.

I always try and make posts, pushing for better CC, better blocking or evades but it’s usually never discussed. But no, Warrior doesn’t need 800 HPS from the signet…that isn’t going to make them tanky because you’ll still get bursted down regardless.

Leo G.4501:

FenGuild.1097:

I’m not sure why you’re adding pve into this when they’re truly focus on Spvp.

Lol I said one word that’d qualify it as PvE: pie. The rest stands on its own and you can simply disregard that single example. I also mention active defense (because that’s how you make more HP work harder for you) which is a whole other matter outside of Healing Signet.

I always try and make posts, pushing for better CC, better blocking or evades but it’s usually never discussed. But no, Warrior doesn’t need 800 HPS from the signet…that isn’t going to make them tanky because you’ll still get bursted down regardless.

I would rather have our own “special mechanic” attached to the healing signet and not just lazy HP/S, you should heal by “doing something.”

Currently, you can heal by ‘doing something’, you just want that something to be clicking attacks or ‘waiting’ for the heals to come to you.

Leo G.4501:

FenGuild.1097:

I’m not sure why you’re adding pve into this when they’re truly focus on Spvp.

Lol I said one word that’d qualify it as PvE: pie. The rest stands on its own and you can simply disregard that single example. I also mention active defense (because that’s how you make more HP work harder for you) which is a whole other matter outside of Healing Signet.

I always try and make posts, pushing for better CC, better blocking or evades but it’s usually never discussed. But no, Warrior doesn’t need 800 HPS from the signet…that isn’t going to make them tanky because you’ll still get bursted down regardless.

It’s just the mindset you have you speak sounds like experience in the pve field about warriors or WvW, but when it comes to bunker warriors in pvp you know little. If the warriors regen was like that it can probably give condition players a run, but for glass cannons might have a tough time depends how evasive and shield blocking good the warrior is. They won’t get burst down quick without support of heavy condition builds which are bunker builds weakness unless they can cleanse it off.

Leo G.4501:

Maliss.1248:

Do you know that anyone can pick up the banner and use the buffs and the cooldowns are tied to the individual and not the banner?

And you do realize, coordinating 5+ people to pick up a banner and plant it for a no-damage blast finisher to produce even half as many blast finishers you’re talking about worsens their performance since they’re not actively moving and killing stuff.

You can attribute utilities’ capabilities to on-paper figures, it doesn’t mean diddly when you ignore what you have to do to accomplish it…namely bundling into a tiny area for a 400 range 5 target cap blast finisher.

Fury from Banner of Discipline is 8 second duration with a 10 second cool down as soon as you involve a second person in the buff cycle you have permanent Fury even if both people have 0 boon duration.

It’s also an additional 1sec cast ontop of the half second cast of picking it up ontop of the 1sec plant animation that can be interrupted. So yeah, I’m not thinking anyone’s going to attribute all of that which basically hinders a groups overall performance (if you need fury, ask your group to coordinate utilities that DON’T lock you out of your regular skills for a portion of time) then compare that outrageous oversimplification to the base of other utilities…no. Just no. Stop.

Your argument has nothing to do with game balance.

And your argument dismisses that such a change would improve their offense when you’re really trying to improve their defense. In essence, you can fix Warriors problems in other ways that doesn’t net buff everything else in the process.

tl;dr: I suggest you go back to the drawing board.

As much as we get where you’re coming from, having the Banner of Discipline rather than Signet of Fury is a pretty easy team choice. In PvP it’s obviously the Signet over the Banner, but in PvE it’s clear to any experienced warrior that the Banner is better. Aside from the Banner’s stats itself being superior, it can also be synergized with a competent team. It can go from 170 precision and 15% crit damage to 6 stacks of might, perma fury, and constant swiftness from battle to battle to your party if you don’t just drop it and forget. It’s a dynamic utility that requires skill to use effectively. All those stats and boons DO NOT hinder your group’s DPS. You either lack experience with it or an imagination. Can we go back to talking about how Healing Signet is UP now?

I like the retaining signet passives idea, but the devs are leaning towards buffing their actives. Buffing the healing or scaling on healing signet and giving Dolyak Signet a stunbreaker are both helpful. I’m gonna vote for Jon’s idea.

Actually if you count in the time it takes to pick up the banner/use the buffs for every member, it could account them not using there own buffs or such at the right time or even basic attacks, and still hinder the groups dps.

Whats the point of the active or using it as an active heal if the passive sucks?

Why not buff the other healing skills and make the passive for HS unique? Make the other heals a stunbreaker and more powerful if your gonna make a SIGNET just for the active.

Why not improve Mending or Healing Surge instead for there actives? I’ve always thought Mending should be a “physical” skill, since literally mending is physically wrapping bandages around a wound for example.

Why do I use signets? For there Passives.
Why do I use non-signets? For there Actives.

I want a nice Passive option please.

Healing Signet update concept:
-Cooldown reduced from 20 seconds to 15 seconds.
-Activation time reduced from 1 1/4 seconds to 1/2 second.
-Passive healing now scales at .05 and also increases healing power by 180.

Dip dat Signet in yo Signets!

Obscure One.4357:

Healing Signet update concept:
-Cooldown reduced from 20 seconds to 15 seconds.
-Activation time reduced from 1 1/4 seconds to 1/2 second.
-Passive healing now scales at .05 and also increases healing power by 180.

Dip dat Signet in yo Signets!

So basicly it goes from 200 to 209. That will really improve Warriors in SPVP!

How about we improve the passive to 400-450 and make it scale 0.1 with HP (like Signet of Malice), then make Activation time reduced from 1 1/4 seconds to 1/2 second. No active change.

We need good healing and condition (conversion or removal, I prefer conversion.)

Daecollo.9578:

Obscure One.4357:

Healing Signet update concept:
-Cooldown reduced from 20 seconds to 15 seconds.
-Activation time reduced from 1 1/4 seconds to 1/2 second.
-Passive healing now scales at .05 and also increases healing power by 180.

Dip dat Signet in yo Signets!

So basicly it goes from 200 to 209. That will really improve Warriors in SPVP!

How about we improve the passive to 400-450 and make it scale 0.1 with HP (like Signet of Malice), then make Activation time reduced from 1 1/4 seconds to 1/2 second. No active change.

We need good healing and condition (conversion or removal, I prefer conversion.)

0.05 Brings the passive heal up to the “meh” range. With banner build perma-regen it’d be to much to pile it up to .1 on a heavy armor class. But a shorter cool down, shorter activation time, and a boost to healing power and it becomes viable.

…for both condition management and healing just run Restorative Strength and Mending…

Obscure One.4357:

Daecollo.9578:

Obscure One.4357:

Healing Signet update concept:
-Cooldown reduced from 20 seconds to 15 seconds.
-Activation time reduced from 1 1/4 seconds to 1/2 second.
-Passive healing now scales at .05 and also increases healing power by 180.

Dip dat Signet in yo Signets!

So basicly it goes from 200 to 209. That will really improve Warriors in SPVP!

How about we improve the passive to 400-450 and make it scale 0.1 with HP (like Signet of Malice), then make Activation time reduced from 1 1/4 seconds to 1/2 second. No active change.

We need good healing and condition (conversion or removal, I prefer conversion.)

Edit: 0.5 not .05, math typos.

Brings the passive heal up to the “meh” range. With banner build perma-regen it’d be to much to pile it up to .1 on a heavy armor class. But a shorter cool down, shorter activation time, and a boost to healing power and it becomes viable.

…for both condition management and healing just run Restorative Strength and Mending…

That would make it -a little to good- for HP builds, and meh and for Sentinels/Soldiers/Berserkers/Knights/Carrions/Rabid builds.

Daecollo.9578:

Obscure One.4357:

Healing Signet update concept:
-Cooldown reduced from 20 seconds to 15 seconds.
-Activation time reduced from 1 1/4 seconds to 1/2 second.
-Passive healing now scales at .05 and also increases healing power by 180.

Dip dat Signet in yo Signets!

So basicly it goes from 200 to 209. That will really improve Warriors in SPVP!

How about we improve the passive to 400-450 and make it scale 0.1 with HP (like Signet of Malice), then make Activation time reduced from 1 1/4 seconds to 1/2 second. No active change.

We need good healing and condition (conversion or removal, I prefer conversion.)

So you want warriors with nearly 3k armor, 25k hp and ridiculous hp regen?

Because that thing I just showed you gets

• 120 hp/s from Adrenal Health
• 528 hp/s on passive Healing Signet
• 3,919 hp + 7 seconds of regeneration (1,806 hp) every 16 seconds

Olba.5376:

Daecollo.9578:

Obscure One.4357:

Healing Signet update concept:
-Cooldown reduced from 20 seconds to 15 seconds.
-Activation time reduced from 1 1/4 seconds to 1/2 second.
-Passive healing now scales at .05 and also increases healing power by 180.

Dip dat Signet in yo Signets!

So basicly it goes from 200 to 209. That will really improve Warriors in SPVP!

How about we improve the passive to 400-450 and make it scale 0.1 with HP (like Signet of Malice), then make Activation time reduced from 1 1/4 seconds to 1/2 second. No active change.

We need good healing and condition (conversion or removal, I prefer conversion.)

So you want warriors with nearly 3k armor, 25k hp and ridiculous hp regen?

3k Armor, after 2.7k Armor, armor goes into dimishing returns where it becomes way less, the difference between 2.7k-3k-4k armor is actually very little. Protection pretty much doubles your armor, I find that many people who use the “armor” argument do not know the value of statistics.

25k HP is just a huge health pool. I would rather have less HP with higher sustain and staying power, currently we do not have that. Without condition removal, things like burning/bleeding/poison take its toll.

High HP Regeneration is required, we cannot cut all damage by 1/3 like other tanks can, therefore we need higher HP regeneration then those classes, its called /balance/. Warriors are horrible in SPVP because we have no sustain and no condition removal. Our HP Regeneration should be even higher because we have no consistent way to remove Poison.

Warriors are currently the worst class in SPVP because we have no on-demand condition removal, and lack of protection (reduces all damage taken by 1/3) therefore, we deserve powerful healing, we should probably have the most powerful healing in the game in terms of balance, since we have such a large health pool and the worst way to negate it. Warriors don’t have much in the terms of Evades Stealth Condition Removal Protection Vigor

Olba.5376:

So you want warriors with nearly 3k armor, 25k hp and ridiculous hp regen?

Because that thing I just showed you gets

• 120 hp/s from Adrenal Health
• 528 hp/s on passive Healing Signet
• 3,919 hp + 7 seconds of regeneration (1,806 hp) every 16 seconds

Effective power = 1,990 … just LOL … I understand your point but even with all of that bunker you still will be far from anywhere near Guardian or Elementalist.

Passive needs to scale at .1

That will bring it inline with the thief on hit signet (base heal 100 per hit and scales at .05) and the elementalist on cast signet (base heal 200 per cast scales .1)

Then adrenal health needs to scale with healing power, and warriors will actually do well in healing power gear

Yes, and he won’t have near the Group support or the CC or Condition Removal, hes basicly a giant target that can’t do anything.

My Necromancer’s Scepter (Perma Poison/Perma Bleeds.) would simply rip that build apart. LOLOLOL

@Spifnar
It won’t bring it inline with SoM.
With Pistol Whip, SoM can heal me up to 4,500 healing in a second in AOE fights. Skill can make SoM a much better heal, however Skill will never make Healing Signet any better. It sucks.

Daecollo.9578:

3k Armor, after 2.7k Armor, armor goes into dimishing returns where it becomes way less, the difference between 2.7k-3k-4k armor is actually very little. Protection pretty much doubles your armor, I find that many people who use the “armor” argument do not know the value of statistics.

Fancy that you argue numbers and then use expressions like “pretty much doubles”.

25k HP is just a huge health pool. I would rather have less HP with higher sustain and staying power, currently we do not have that. Without condition removal, things like burning/bleeding/poison take its toll.

The only reason we can do this is because of our naturally high health pool, which allows for us to go with Berserker armor, rather than dive into Valkyrie.

Now give me your pet argument about food and runes, please.

High HP Regeneration is required, we cannot cut all damage by 1/3 like other tanks can, therefore we need higher HP regeneration then those classes, its called /balance/. Warriors are horrible in SPVP because we have no sustain and no condition removal. Our HP Regeneration should be even higher because we have no consistent way to remove Poison.

No condition removal? Ever seen a Warhorn in your life? Soldier Runes? Signet of Stamina? Mending? Shake it Off?

Also, P/D thieves have pretty kitten good sustain and they do it with 8k less base HP than a warrior.

Daecollo.9578:

Warriors are currently the worst class in SPVP because we have no on-demand condition removal

Wha?!?

Daecollo.9578:

Warriors don’t have much in the terms of Evades … Condition Removal … Vigor

Oh my…What?!? Take a look at GS ‘3’ or warhorn when traited and think again.

Just stop. While warriors are definitely on the low end of all that is tPvP (and even organized WvW), these are not the primary concerning factors. While condition removal is a problem, saying we have no “on demand” is wrong.

EDIT: Olba beat me to it.

Daecollo.9578:

Obscure One.4357:

Daecollo.9578:

Obscure One.4357:

Healing Signet update concept:
-Cooldown reduced from 20 seconds to 15 seconds.
-Activation time reduced from 1 1/4 seconds to 1/2 second.
-Passive healing now scales at .05 and also increases healing power by 180.

Dip dat Signet in yo Signets!

So basicly it goes from 200 to 209. That will really improve Warriors in SPVP!

How about we improve the passive to 400-450 and make it scale 0.1 with HP (like Signet of Malice), then make Activation time reduced from 1 1/4 seconds to 1/2 second. No active change.

We need good healing and condition (conversion or removal, I prefer conversion.)

Edit: 0.5 not .05, math typos.

Brings the passive heal up to the “meh” range. With banner build perma-regen it’d be to much to pile it up to .1 on a heavy armor class. But a shorter cool down, shorter activation time, and a boost to healing power and it becomes viable.

…for both condition management and healing just run Restorative Strength and Mending…

That would make it -a little to good- for HP builds, and meh and for Sentinels/Soldiers/Berserkers/Knights/Carrions/Rabid builds.

I edited my edit for editing it incorrectly. The initial coefficient of 0.05 is what I meant. I.E. the scaling from healing power will change the passive value the 250 range (not 209 as Daecollo is stating). When it comes down to other builds, the skill isn’t a viable choice for glass cannons over bigger heals from surge or condition management off of Mending.

Not every skill should be viable on every build, but every build should be viable within the scope of skill options.

Zayle.7253:

As much as we get where you’re coming from, having the Banner of Discipline rather than Signet of Fury is a pretty easy team choice….

Yeah, snip.

We’re not comparing which is better. I’m just saying we’re not comparing a signet to a ‘utility with 25+ blast finishers and perma fury’ banner. No. No one is going to sit there picking up a banner every 10 seconds and cast 3 seconds worth of banner skills.

Olba.5376:

Daecollo.9578:

3k Armor, after 2.7k Armor, armor goes into dimishing returns where it becomes way less, the difference between 2.7k-3k-4k armor is actually very little. Protection pretty much doubles your armor, I find that many people who use the “armor” argument do not know the value of statistics.

Fancy that you argue numbers and then use expressions like “pretty much doubles”.

25k HP is just a huge health pool. I would rather have less HP with higher sustain and staying power, currently we do not have that. Without condition removal, things like burning/bleeding/poison take its toll.

The only reason we can do this is because of our naturally high health pool, which allows for us to go with Berserker armor, rather than dive into Valkyrie.

Now give me your pet argument about food and runes, please.

High HP Regeneration is required, we cannot cut all damage by 1/3 like other tanks can, therefore we need higher HP regeneration then those classes, its called /balance/. Warriors are horrible in SPVP because we have no sustain and no condition removal. Our HP Regeneration should be even higher because we have no consistent way to remove Poison.

No condition removal? Ever seen a Warhorn in your life? Soldier Runes? Signet of Stamina? Mending? Shake it Off?

Also, P/D thieves have pretty kitten good sustain and they do it with 8k less base HP than a warrior.

P/D Argument, this has nothing to do with Healing Signet:
They have sustain because every 3 seconds they can blink out of the fight for 4 seconds (he can’t be targeted which brings his effected damage not taken down by a lot.) Removes a condition every 3 seconds, heals for 1800 without a healing skill. (Just a trait that heals you over time from stealth.) Can also heal for using Initiative, can also heal, can also cure Poison/Bleeding/Burning with there stealth heal…

8k HP is nothing compared to good sustain and condition removal. Get it through your head.

I know how good sustain a thief can be, I actually play an 80 thief/warrior/necromancer.
_____________________________________________________

Warhorn has a 16 second CD, it also converts the most recent condition and takes an off-hand slot and 20 trait points to do this.

Other classes can get on-demand condition removal built right into there skills, and some of them get much better traits that can remove up to 3 conditions every 10 seconds, some of them even more, we simply cannot keep up with ranger’s bleed for example, even if we remove entire stacks its simply reapplied quickly. Poison absolutely wrecks us. Also that necromancer in the video simply didn’t know how to play, he didn’t use his “blinds” at all. That 9k attack wouldn’t of even HIT.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Plague_of_Darkness
I believe that video could of just been set up, or the necromancer in question simply didn’t know how to play at all.

Warrior is simply pathetic, it cannot stand up to conditions at all.

Shrug it off, Signet of Stamina all suffer from the same problem. They simply cannot submit against the most popular condition builds, conditions are applied on-demand, removing all the stacks simply does nothing because they are immediately all reapplied.

@ Daecollo

Signet of Stamina: condition clear
Mending: two condition removal
Restorative Strength: Immobilize, chill, cripple, and weaken removal
Shake It Off: one condition removal

Gear Options
Runes of Lyssa: elite skill condition clear
Soldier Runes: all shouts remove a condition

Warriors aren’t great in tPvP for VASTLY different reasons…

Obscure One.4357:

@ Daecollo

Signet of Stamina: condition clear
Mending: two condition removal
Restorative Strength: Immobilize, chill, cripple, and weaken removal
Shake It Off: one condition removal

Gear Options
Runes of Lyssa: elite skill condition clear
Soldier Runes: all shouts remove a condition

Warriors aren’t great in tPvP for VASTLY different reasons…

One of the biggest ones is they cannot stay in the fight, they don’t have good condition removal. That is BURST condition removal. It helps for running away. Not staying and fighting.

Examples of “GOOD CONDITION REMOVAL”.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Empathic_Bond
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow%27s_Embrace
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fetid_Consumption
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shrouded_Removal
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Water
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evasive_Arcana
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Purity
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Absolute_Resolution
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleaning_Formula_409
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shattered_Conditions
(however they make up for it with http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Null_Field)

Warriors don’t have any good condition removal options, I could go on a storm about all the skills other classes have, HP really doesn’t matter when you are losing 5k a second from conditions.

Daecollo.9578:

Obscure One.4357:

@ Daecollo

Signet of Stamina: condition clear
Mending: two condition removal
Restorative Strength: Immobilize, chill, cripple, and weaken removal
Shake It Off: one condition removal

Gear Options
Runes of Lyssa: elite skill condition clear
Soldier Runes: all shouts remove a condition

Warriors aren’t great in tPvP for VASTLY different reasons…

One of the biggest ones is they cannot stay in the fight, they don’t have good condition removal. That is BURST condition removal. It helps for running away. Not staying and fighting.

I find no need to argue, your doing a find job of disproving your credibility without my assistance.

This however has absolutely nothing to do with the viability or lack thereof of Healing Signet, as if condition management is an issue, Mending provides that incredibly well especially when Restorative Strength is traited.

Obscure One.4357:

Daecollo.9578:

Obscure One.4357:

@ Daecollo

Signet of Stamina: condition clear
Mending: two condition removal
Restorative Strength: Immobilize, chill, cripple, and weaken removal
Shake It Off: one condition removal

Gear Options
Runes of Lyssa: elite skill condition clear
Soldier Runes: all shouts remove a condition

Warriors aren’t great in tPvP for VASTLY different reasons…

One of the biggest ones is they cannot stay in the fight, they don’t have good condition removal. That is BURST condition removal. It helps for running away. Not staying and fighting.

I find no need to argue, your doing a find job of disproving your credibility without my assistance.

This however has absolutely nothing to do with the viability or lack thereof of Healing Signet, as if condition management is an issue, Mending provides that incredibly well especially when Restorative Strength is traited.

Sorry person, I actually play a Warrior. Warriors need a lot of help removing conditions. As well as healing.

I’m not sure why this thread devolves into a “Warriors are awful at sPVP” conversation daily when the focus is supposed to be about improvements to a particular skill. One skill is not going to fix broader issues a profession might in a particular venue. If you wish to talk about Warrior viability in sPVP, please do it in another thread.

If anything, we should be asking the following:

- Do skills that serve a similar purpose for other professions (Signet of Malice for Thieves, Signet of Restoration for Elementalists) work as intended?
- If these skills are in a good place for these professions, what is it that makes them effective and desirable as an option?

To me, Healing Signet tends to falter in efficacy when compared to its cross-profession counterparts for two reasons:

- The scaling on the ability’s passive effect is too low for the passive’s proc frequency
- The base value of the ability’s passive effect is subpar for the passive’s proc frequency

Now, since Healing Signet’s goal is to provide consistent passive healing to the Warrior, the frequency shouldn’t really be touched (ticking every second seems more than fair for a regeneration ability); instead we should be looking at improving either its scaling, its base value, or both depending on the goal of the designers. Personally, I think both could use a boost but that the scaling should take priority here, as this skill is naturally suited towards more durable builds.

Daecollo.9578:

Warriors need a lot of help removing conditions. As well as healing.

Warriors are not special. Elementalist needs healing and help removing conditions. So they pick a trait that does it, they use a utility that removes them and pick gear that helps them heal.

Just because you don’t have your ‘remove a condition every 10 seconds’ doesn’t mean you don’t have good condition removal…nor does that mean it’s the only worthwhile method of dealing with conditions!

Koppartikus.2396:

- The scaling on the ability’s passive effect is too low for the passive’s proc frequency
- The base value of the ability’s passive effect is subpar for the passive’s proc frequency

Don’t forget:
- Active is not in line with other healing active skills.

Leo G.4501:

Daecollo.9578:

Warriors need a lot of help removing conditions. As well as healing.

Warriors are not special. Elementalist needs healing and help removing conditions. So they pick a trait that does it, they use a utility that removes them and pick gear that helps them heal.

Just because you don’t have your ‘remove a condition every 10 seconds’ doesn’t mean you don’t have good condition removal…nor does that mean it’s the only worthwhile method of dealing with conditions!

This is as self-evident as it is irrelevant to furthering the dialog in improving Healing Signet. Whereas removing conditions from your Warrior is clearly a Learn to Play issue, Healing Signet is really lackluster standing between Healing Surge and Mending, no matter how skilled one becomes in its use.

The passive effect needs to be improved, but my thoughts are towards making it more viable among builds focused on healing power, just as Mending is a clear choice for my builds high volume of condition mitigation, and Healing Surge is optimal for my adrenaline building weapon swapper. Ideally a boost to healing power, making it more responsive to healing power, reducing the cooldown and activation times would give it more of an impact.

Leo G.4501:

Koppartikus.2396:

- The scaling on the ability’s passive effect is too low for the passive’s proc frequency
- The base value of the ability’s passive effect is subpar for the passive’s proc frequency

Don’t forget:
- Active is not in line with other healing active skills.

Actually, I believe the active is in line with the others. It’s in the middle of the pack with a 20s cooldown (Malice has 15, Restoration has 25) and all heal for ~3300 with a .5 Healing Power ratio.

I’m basing my information off of the wiki:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Malice
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Restoration
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Signet

If the information’s wrong in there I’ll retract my statement, but I’m pretty sure the active is fine. It’s the passive that’s not pulling its weight in builds it should support.

Artaz.3819:

Olba.5376:

So you want warriors with nearly 3k armor, 25k hp and ridiculous hp regen?

Because that thing I just showed you gets

• 120 hp/s from Adrenal Health
• 528 hp/s on passive Healing Signet
• 3,919 hp + 7 seconds of regeneration (1,806 hp) every 16 seconds

Effective power = 1,990 … just LOL … I understand your point but even with all of that bunker you still will be far from anywhere near Guardian or Elementalist.

That is correct and what you just said Olba looks good on paper, but in actual pvp combat it’s the opposite. It is no where as good as a Guardian or Elementalist let alone other bunker professions.

Daecollo.9578:

Obscure One.4357:

@ Daecollo

Signet of Stamina: condition clear
Mending: two condition removal
Restorative Strength: Immobilize, chill, cripple, and weaken removal
Shake It Off: one condition removal

Gear Options
Runes of Lyssa: elite skill condition clear
Soldier Runes: all shouts remove a condition

Warriors aren’t great in tPvP for VASTLY different reasons…

One of the biggest ones is they cannot stay in the fight, they don’t have good condition removal. That is BURST condition removal. It helps for running away. Not staying and fighting.

Examples of “GOOD CONDITION REMOVAL”.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Empathic_Bond
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow%27s_Embrace
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fetid_Consumption
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shrouded_Removal
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Water
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evasive_Arcana
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Purity
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Absolute_Resolution
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleaning_Formula_409
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shattered_Conditions
(however they make up for it with http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Null_Field)

Warriors don’t have any good condition removal options, I could go on a storm about all the skills other classes have, HP really doesn’t matter when you are losing 5k a second from conditions.

Even though we’ve been saying it for so long warriors need passive condition removal traits and on Signet of Stamina

Daecollo.9578:

Yes, and he won’t have near the Group support or the CC or Condition Removal, hes basicly a giant target that can’t do anything.

My Necromancer’s Scepter (Perma Poison/Perma Bleeds.) would simply rip that build apart. LOLOLOL

This is true because I can’t even bunker a node especially going against what he just said even with my healing signet, adrenal health, banner regen and warhorn condition removal trait combine. His necro will just reapply the conditions again consecutively forcing me out of the node.

The problem is, I can easilly activate SoM, SoR more then once a second, some times several times a second compared to HS, it has barely the opportunity cost or skill.