Guild Wars 2

Sounds like a lot of people are blaming arrow carts for impacts from the siege defense nerf (skills which negated siege fire such as Swirling Winds and Smoke Screen). Formerly it was easy enough to take a zerg with more eles than your enemy and chain cast Swirling Winds to destroy the enemy’s treb (or just protect yours while you took out their gate or wall). If you had more siege defence than your enemy (which is likely if they are outmanned and you have a zerg) you were guaranteed to break in (zerg wins over everything else). Now that arrow carts do what they are supposed to do (meaningfully punish people too close to the tower and defend against rams, golems and zergs) people are upset (formerly arrow carts were a joke you can stand in and heal through in a game where healing is weak). Defensive siege was almost completely useless against a zerg.

I’m not saying arrow carts aren’t OP (a single arrow cart isn’t that threatening even now, it’s in great numbers that they become a threat in small numbers they perform their role) but a lot of the issues I’m hearing have nothing to do with arrow carts. Arrow carts counter gate sieges and pressure zergs, if your treb and cata sieges aren’t succeeding because of the projectile defence nerf, direct your criticism towards the right target. People were countering stupid zergs with arrow carts before this patch. The difference now is that arrow carts are more common (because they are actually useful now – previously you could stand in the fire or two arrow carts without a care).

Make sure when giving feedback on this you are directing it towards the correct target. Arrow carts have very little to do with countering trebs.

Shiren.9532:

Now that arrow carts do what they are supposed to do ….

This is the point.

They’re supposed to be pressure and annoyance, forcing attackers to burn their CD if they want to man the ram or protect golems… if placed alone.
They’re cheap, even Sup ones, so you’re able to place 5-10 of them facing same gate raining on same small area.
It was already a death trap – if you were fool enough to enter there.
It was balanced, because 1 single AC was annoyance and pressure, 10 of them were serious danger.

What they’ve done now is making a single AC pumping out same death havoc of 8 of them.
But supply cost has not changed, neither do the siege limit – so now you can put still 5- 10 AC on same gate, with double to dmg that before.
And extended range.
And extended radius.
And poison (-33% Heal).

Now tell me if this is wat ACs are meant to do….

Making impossible to even get close to tower/keep.
You can’t protect catas anymore to balli/trebs, so that’s not an option.
The amout of times you can use balli to hit ACs is very low, if they’re placed with half a brain.
You can’t kill them with attacks, because they’re usually placed back on walls to exploit the lack of los requirement.
You have to use a treb. Which can’t be defended. So it turns in treb wars w/o even the SW element to “spice” or speed it.

It’s a total failure, as it’s designed atm.

Last night’s WvW experience…

I am so glad I transfered now, I feel pitty for Deso and SFR having to fight the master of siege: Vizunah. It’s even laughable really.

I see 3 possible way:
-get a 80-100 blob to take things so the AC damage is spread out. (PvD ofcourse rams can’t be build)
-keep moving from tower to tower till you find an empty one and hope you can cap it before some people show up. (oh the joy empty PvD)
-nightcap the hell out of you enemies and siege up. Switch your sleeping rythms (yea…that ain’t gona happen…)

All other options will be countered by 5-6 decent defenders. And yea, Vizunah has scouts in every structure like 24/7, that is why I feel sorry for Deso and SFR :p.

Shiren.9532:

Sounds like a lot of people are blaming arrow carts for impacts from the siege defense nerf (skills which negated siege fire such as Swirling Winds and Smoke Screen). Formerly it was easy enough to take a zerg with more eles than your enemy and chain cast Swirling Winds to destroy the enemy’s treb (or just protect yours while you took out their gate or wall). If you had more siege defence than your enemy (which is likely if they are outmanned and you have a zerg) you were guaranteed to break in (zerg wins over everything else). Now that arrow carts do what they are supposed to do (meaningfully punish people too close to the tower and defend against rams, golems and zergs) people are upset (formerly arrow carts were a joke you can stand in and heal through in a game where healing is weak). Defensive siege was almost completely useless against a zerg.

I’m not saying arrow carts aren’t OP (a single arrow cart isn’t that threatening even now, it’s in great numbers that they become a threat in small numbers they perform their role) but a lot of the issues I’m hearing have nothing to do with arrow carts. Arrow carts counter gate sieges and pressure zergs, if your treb and cata sieges aren’t succeeding because of the projectile defence nerf, direct your criticism towards the right target. People were countering stupid zergs with arrow carts before this patch. The difference now is that arrow carts are more common (because they are actually useful now – previously you could stand in the fire or two arrow carts without a care).

Make sure when giving feedback on this you are directing it towards the correct target. Arrow carts have very little to do with countering trebs.

It is both issues together. There are now zero options. Two superior ACs with siege might and some of the new AC upgrades (we had people saving points, I’m sure the enemy did too) drop people in 3 to 4 seconds to downed.

The treb is an issue because it was the only defense against the ACs, you could treb them down (somewhat) but now you cant keep the trebs alive long enough to take out the ACs.

Additionally, even if you got the walls down with said trebs, you cannot survive in the choke against 5+ superior ACs, not with poison that stops healing, and cripple.

What some (perhaps lower) tiers aren’t getting is that in the top two tiers there are zergs on BOTH sides almost all the time. Everyone complains about the zerg for MONTHS, but this doesn’t fix any of that because zergs can use this too. So it becomes a stalemate and the end result is, no one can take keeps while anyone is inside (if its upgraded).

Anyway, said my piece. Either they will listen and make changes, or they won’t. I know some people disagree, but its the people that like to sit and spam 2 from the safety of a tower/keep and watch the bags pile up and feel like superman.

Look at it from the positive side! Confusion build mesmers can now retrain to be professional arrowacrtists. In fact dueling a condition build mesmer should always include him building an arrowcart beforehand.
Seriously though I really hated sieging as it was before. I’d rather have every keep and tower wide open so if the enemy wants to defend it they have to come and fight for it. Now it’s just the matter of which server has the more money/skillpoints and the patience to put them down (expect Riverside, Kodash in t1 in a few weeks).

I used to play GW2, but then I took an arrowcart to the knee.

Arrow carts are now waaay to powerful now. They were powerful enough before. 3-4 superior arrowcart on each exit from spawn and whole server is just blocked.

Hey, look, i have a cannon! But i can’t use it causr they AoE me

I have a superior arrow cart! That deals same dps as you do and they don’t hit me AoEs!

OWNED

introducing! the new High Definition! 1080P arrowcartage!

Please Anet reconsider this change and revert it.

Sorenstam Blackrose.8425:

KStudios.2850:

Since when was Sekz part of the hoard? Is that your official stance on the issue? If so I’m sorry, and I pray you forgive me, but if that be the case then we must disagree. I’m not Sekz material, nor have I ever claimed to be. I’m not known for zerg-busting on a regular basis. My name does not echo through the halls of these forums.

I’m tired of being steamrolled under-foot because some sea-guild nightcaps consistantly night after night in the instances when you guys aren’t around to save us (and frankly I’d think you’d be tired of saving us). I’m tired of being just a smear on the ground in some mobs karma train. Then having my carcass “bagged” and laughed at in the lord’s room I so desperately tried to defend like I was the one whose efforts were pointless. There’s no good fight in a 4v30+, and we certainly don’t get respected for our efforts in trying.

So you’re mad about trying to hold during off hours? And now you can with the new arrow carts? Now take that situation and apply it to prime time. Realize how much of a potential clusterkitten it is going to cause for any sort of offensive, whether it is our own or opposing sides. There are guilds on the other side that already try to lock down even supply camps with siege. Frame of reference: last time we danced with SBZY, they had 5-6 ballista waiting for us. Those ballista could have been post-patch arrow carts. The situation could have turned out a whole lot different if that were the case.

Furthermore, thanks to a range increase, the ability to potentially clear defensive emplacements is now in jeopardy.

It’s not often that we PvDoor, but now I want to avoid it completely. While I speak for myself on that, I’m sure others echo the sentiments. So you can go hold off the night cap. But don’t be surprised when the forces who pull their weight on offense don’t want to play ball.

And if they’re tossing arrow carts in the middle of zergs? Ugh.

Are you not? It’s how we lost T4 to CD afterall. I was there that hopeless night when their sea-presence rolled over us for 600+ points across the entire board, as I’m sure a lot of us were. We were literally swept under the rug like some unwanted refuse and forgotten after that. By a server we had well in hand during our prime time hours.

I’m no longer saying I completely agree with everything the patch presents, perhaps I’m being selfish. I do think it’s a step in the right direction though, if perhaps an 80% dmg increase is being a tad excessive. I’m a defender, that’s what I do, what I’ve always done. It’s not often with my hours of play (typically between 2 AM to 12 PM USA central) that I get to do anthing else. There is never enough of us to put up a great deal of offense.

We finally have a means of tower defense. As stated, maybe it’s too much, perhaps a 50% dmg increase would have been more fitting. But it’s something, and yes, much like the 30 second rule, a bit of a double edged sword.

Note that with the Arrow cart range change, the max arrow cart range will basically always be within the min treb range which essentially negates attacking with catapults. There are no longer sweet spots (like in the water at SW tower) to place catas that will avoid both.

Samug.6512:

Arrow carts are now waaay to powerful now. They were powerful enough before. 3-4 superior arrowcart on each exit from spawn and whole server is just blocked.

Lies. If the whole server game into the zone, I bet you could get into those carts.

Good job buffing Nightcapping Arenanet. I know you guys have been telling us that WvW is intended to work like this since the beginning but shoving it down our throats like this is kinda over the top. All this sweet talk about big WvW changes and updates really had me fooled tho, since I actually thought things were going to get more enjoyable, I mean its not like we had to suffer through queues, skill lag, crashes and culling just to get anything good at the other side. Naah instead you break the game!! Well played arenanet well played, you really fooled me atleast.

ammayhem.5962:

Aneu.1748:

With the ability to put 12 arrowcarts on a single door, adding poison to an arrowcart resulting in 33% less healing, increasing arrowcarts damage by 80%, with arrowcarts being so easily built with such small amount of supply required and increasing the time within which bleed stays on you from a cart… how do you think this is a positive addition to WvW?

I cant even … Im utterly dumbfounded at why someone at arenanet would think this is a good idea…

As I said in another thread, I see two arrow carts and 10 unfinished blueprints.

The point is all you need is 2 to hold off a full on assault now, with NO backup.

Guys it is very easy to counter the ac’s. this is what you got to do.
Get 40 players.
Get 50g
Build 10 omegas.
Put 10 mesmers in omegas.
Break the gate.
Omegas go in and spread to 10 different spots.
All 10 mesmers get out of omegas.
Find the best route to get back to your 20 players.
Port them all in.

Hope you enjoy.

Solution? Mesmer #1 attack on greatsword. Attack the nearest object near arrow carts (Wall, door, player, etc).

The LASER will destroy everything near your target, LOS not needed.

MiLkZz.4789:

I am so glad I transfered now, I feel pitty for Deso and SFR having to fight the master of siege: Vizunah. It’s even laughable really.

I see 3 possible way:
-get a 80-100 blob to take things so the AC damage is spread out. (PvD ofcourse rams can’t be build)
-keep moving from tower to tower till you find an empty one and hope you can cap it before some people show up. (oh the joy empty PvD)
-nightcap the hell out of you enemies and siege up. Switch your sleeping rythms (yea…that ain’t gona happen…)

All other options will be countered by 5-6 decent defenders. And yea, Vizunah has scouts in every structure like 24/7, that is why I feel sorry for Deso and SFR :p.

Yes i agree, this patch is going to favour servers that use siege weapons the most like Vizombie. Vizunah is going to PvDoor Deso/SFR in the morning as always and build trillions of siege weapons inside. We poor Deso players going to have nightmare trying to cap our own NE and NW towers in our deso bl. This patch isnt going to help Deso or SFR

highlandria.7941:

Guys it is very easy to counter the ac’s. this is what you got to do.
Get 40 players.
Get 50g
Build 10 omegas.
Put 10 mesmers in omegas.
Break the gate.
Omegas go in and spread to 10 different spots.
All 10 mesmers get out of omegas.
Find the best route to get back to your 20 players.
Port them all in.

Hope you enjoy.

More clueless individuals. Port has a limited range on top of this almost all keeps/towers have a bottleneck perfect for arrowcarting (inside) so your plan is flawed, also those who fall for portal bombs are just bad at playing… like really bad…

What you can do is:
Use thiefs’ shadow refuge, stack up stealth, and build a counter AC before they even notice you are there. You can do anything by puting aside the mindless zerging “strategy”. If you lead the blob to a tower with AC-s in it, its like leading golems to oil pots.

sMihaly.1492:

What you can do is:
Use thiefs’ shadow refuge, stack up stealth, and build a counter AC before they even notice you are there. You can do anything by puting aside the mindless zerging “strategy”. If you lead the blob to a tower with AC-s in it, its like leading golems to oil pots.

You cannot stealth build sites…

Rinzler.8072:

Solution? Mesmer #1 attack on greatsword. Attack the nearest object near arrow carts (Wall, door, player, etc).

The LASER will destroy everything near your target, LOS not needed.

I haven’t been able to get beam tech to work like this on siege after the patch. I believe it’s fixed.

i spent a few hours testing the carts last night. honestly? the damage was only a touch high. not super powerful, just a touch. a 50% increase would have been perfect, but even the 80%(up to 110%) IS manageable. it just means you have to clear out siege before you start setting up rams. no biggie, as rams stopped being my primary method of attack months ago.

the real issue is the range. while extending the range is a good change, it got extended a little bit too far. 75-85% of what it currently is would be perfect. as it stands, catapults, set up at their max range, are within range of carts set up on the walls. while rams should never be used to attack a defended tower/keep, catapults should be. if catapults have to be set up within range of arrow carts, they get destroyed before they’re built.

now, i’ve always prioritized defense over offense, and i honestly hate zerging in general. i absolutely detested the giant zergball trains that were the result of the WXP system, and put zero stock into anyone’s rank there. for the most part, this change was good for the game. break up into different groups and attack multiple targets at the same time. don’t stand in the frickin’ red circles. avoid where they’re strong, attack where they’re weak. this change promotes that. however, as i stated, it’s just a touch too much. simply scaling the range back a little bit should put it at a manageable level.

simply put:
do not expect to take a structure with one one level of attacks
running up and plopping down rams and expecting those to be all that you need didn’t cut it before, and doesn’t cut it now. nothing has changed in that regard. attack structures in stages. similar to taking out out the cannons and oil beforehand, but now on a larger scale.
do not attack from only one direction
attack from multiple directions at the same time. ok, so you set up a treb to counter their treb, and it got taken down by theirs. why didn’t you set up two, in different spots, attacking from different angles? that defensive treb can only hit one thing at a time, and if it attacks one, the second one can take it out. do that.
do not form an uberzerg and focus all of you efforts into only a single target
if you only attack one area, you GIVE the defenders the advantage. if you attack multiple, you give yourselves the advantage. there is nothing that a 50 man group can do that can’t be better accomplished by two groups of 25, or two groups of 20 and a group of 10, or even better, two groups of 20 and two groups of five.
post sentries in every tower and keep that you own
if you leave your towers and keeps empty, and expect to simply rush there when it gets contested, you DESERVE to lose them. you put zero thought and effort into its defense, and you shouldn’t be able to get away with that kind of carelessness.
don’t stand in the giant red circles
the damage doesn’t mean crap if it doesn’t actually hit anyone. if you see a giant red circle around you, get the hell out of it. there’s absolutely no reason why anyone should expect to be able to take a bunch of AoE in the face repeatedly, and now it actually can kill you.

as an aside, perhaps it would be a good idea if people were to suggest a giant pit-like area, where they can simply hold deathmatches for large scale fights without having to bother with any objectives other than “kill the other guys before they kill you.” then they’ll stop wishing to see the objectives be diminished to a nonexistent level, and can enjoy their deathmatches to their heart’s content. and the people who actually wish to focus on objectives can do so freely. then everyone gets what they want, and everyone’s happy.

And yet again someone is making the assumption that THERE IS ONLY 1 ARROWCART.

Superior arrowcarts cost 40 supply to build, you can put an insane amount in a very small area and they are even more devastating now since they reach over double the length of the 1000 range of siege limit! I managed to get 12 prior to the buff, now I am sure I could get more to hit around a door…

So even if you destroy 4 on the ramparts that is still 8 you need to contend with that requires trebs which can be counter treb’d and not defended by swirls or any deflection.

Im tired of having the same redundant argument over and over with people who think this is ok for the game! Its really not and you will see that eventually.

but aneu think of how short queues might be this reset

and how much less skill lag

As capping during off-peak hours wasn’t a big enough issue already, they decided to go through with this nonsense, making time coverage even more vital.

I fully support Aneu on this matter, and I cannot state enough how ridiculous these changes really are.

Zoel.9154:

but aneu think of how short queues might be this reset

and how much less skill lag

And how many more people will be sat inside their tower/keep behind an arrowcart waiting to feel “pro”.

also

just asking a serious question here

for those who think karma is like, super cereal important and clearly why we go after towers

…. what uh… what do you spend karma on? Jewel boxes?

Zoel.9154:

also

just asking a serious question here

for those who think karma is like, super cereal important and clearly why we go after towers

…. what uh… what do you spend karma on? Jewel boxes?

Karma trains are so last year…

Aneu.1748:

Zoel.9154:

also

just asking a serious question here

for those who think karma is like, super cereal important and clearly why we go after towers

…. what uh… what do you spend karma on? Jewel boxes?

Karma trains are so last year…

Yep. WXP trains are where it’s at now…

… and then you took an arrow cart buff to the knee.

in soviet russia, wxp train comes to arrow cart

I was going to write a longer post about what I think they were thinking with the arrow carts + 30 second contest delay but I’ll just say this:

Changing something that’s already nearly balanced by 50% (e.g. confusion) or 80% (arrow carts) + 4th skill + range is way out of whack. They could have at least reduced ballistas to the same cost as arrow carts since you’re not going to need ballistas for a choke point now.

This is going to be a meta-changing event in a very unbalanced way (relative to other siege). What will be the point of rams now except to ninja? If they had increased ram damage by 50% or decreased AC damage on siege weapons TO 30%, that would have made some sense but no…

You know, not so long ago catapults were fixed that they couldn’t shoot against their own doors and deal damage to the rams.
With the latest buff two superior AC need around 15sec to destroy a superior ram behind a gate. That’s the point where many people get angry, rightly so.

I’m not necessarily against higher damage against a zerg (although I think they should buff the damage from trebs/catas against people, superior ACs were fine), but it’s flat out insane how fast rams/golems are destroyed by ACs.

ok we have had our fair share of suggestions to build trebs and counter trebs and counter counter trebs, defending them in small grps of 5 till 20 people… lol… reality check.

but honestly is this the game we want? i personally find trebs lame… and my experience has been that a tower has to fall quickly if you want a small grp to take it.
It has nothing to do with zerging or not. 15 nor 25 man cannot take a tower that is defended by 3-5 people with superior arrow carts.

This only promotes servers who have a better night coverage and will be able to pvd and during the day you need 2-3 man in every tower that will stop any small grp or big zerg till reinforcements have arrived.

at the moment I don t know what to do as commander. I ll not be able to siege a tower or keep for hours without the other faction backstabing us and going for one of our keeps. if I order a small grp to defend our tower, I ll probably loose the exposed trebs and the work of 1 hour.
And in adition to it… am I m gona go through all the hassle to look back and say, wow tonight in 4 hours we got 1 tower.. awesome… and tomorow i ll tell my fellow guildies hey you remember the tower we were sieging for hours when you had to log off? we got it in the end.

no man i m gona park my people on a crossway build some arrowcarts and hope that the enemy is bored enough to look for a fight on open ground.

DeadlySynz.3471:

Silver.9084:

PinCushion.7390:

MethaneGas.8357:

People don’t realise that the enemy won’t be the only one using arrow carts. Some posts I read make me facepalm a million times over and over and over again. As if you won’t be the one that will ALSO have an arrow cart by your side.

And what’s even funnier is that people complain about zergs. Now something comes that will clear out zergs, and people complain about it.

Grow up and develop new strategies, it’s not the end of the world.

Basically this.

What you don’t understand is that PROMOTES zerging. Since there is no way you’re gonna take a keep with 20-30 people! You NEED the zerg’s supplies to “TRY” and take a keep…..

No it doesn’t. You take a dozen of smart ranged and they’ll have your gate down without you landing one tick of AC on them. Then starve the keeps supply and what do they do? Nothing, they are sitting ducks.

This is why it’s a good change. It disengages this mindless storm the keep with sheer numbers mentality. It promotes more strategy. Every single point talking against this new change can easily be refuted.

-Arrow carts do too much damage? Don’t stand in the circle
-Ballistas will hit you if your out of range of AC’s? Not if your moving they won’t
-Defenders will keep building seige if trebs destroy? Not if their supply is cut off
-Trebs in keeps will just counter other trebs? Build more trebs than them to nullify
-Rams are useless? I agree, build catapults further out, problem solved
-Ballistas will destroy catapults? Not when there is ranged to pick off the operators
-Larger zergs? Possibly, but only the true fools would think larger numbers prevail

A lot can be done by starving the enemy’s supply. It adds a whole new dynamic instead of allowing yaks to just wander to their destinations as if they were on a leisure sunday walk. It also adds a dynamic where it’s beneficial to start guarding supply camps.

Have you ever tried to take a T3 keep with the lords room fully sieged up with AC’s. Bay will probably be the easiest, we were only able to defend Bays lord room for like 4 hours before, it will be sooo much easier now. Hills, we could keep ppl out at the choke to the lords room for a few hours before with nothing but AC’s. Garrison LOL. 10 AC’s in the 3rd floor, before the buff I have been in 3 way battles that went for many hours, 2 way battles lol, hours. 3rd floor with 10 AC’s and You shall not pass. Can’t wait to see some vids of Garry defense.

So the easiest keep to take will probably look something like:

Spend a few hours bleeding supply, stopping yaks.
Spend another hour or so getting through outer.
Another couple hours to get through inner.
And any where from 1-6+ hours trying to get the lords room clear.(I actually don’t think it will ever get this far).

We will start seigeing keeps in shifts. Sounds Fun.

I just cry at next week matchup with Riverside-Ag-Gandara, thinking about all the freaking AC that riverside will be drop in every single spot, it was hard before to take stuff from Riverside now i think there is no away is just to painfull

While my post wont add much of value to the topic, in my opinion (which seems to concur with others) arrow carts are now overpowered.

Aneu.1748:

sMihaly.1492:

What you can do is:
Use thiefs’ shadow refuge, stack up stealth, and build a counter AC before they even notice you are there. You can do anything by puting aside the mindless zerging “strategy”. If you lead the blob to a tower with AC-s in it, its like leading golems to oil pots.

You cannot stealth build sites…

AND!!!! for only 75 points you now have revealing arrow that will poison you as well.
game over

Get 20 people.

2 Catapults
1 Treb

Treb / cata down the wall.
Use treb to take out all arrow carts.
Use SR to stealth a group of 5 in to wreak havoc on the Arrow Carts remaining, giving your zerg enough time to get in there.

Oh wait, what was that? T1 meta revolves around removing as much of the player skill component as possible? Hmm. Tough luck. This change will be awesome in lower tiers.

Gab Superstar.4059:

Get 20 people.

2 Catapults
1 Treb

Treb / cata down the wall.
Use treb to take out all arrow carts.
Use SR to stealth a group of 5 in to wreak havoc on the Arrow Carts remaining, giving your zerg enough time to get in there.

Oh wait, what was that? T1 meta revolves around removing as much of the player skill component as possible? Hmm. Tough luck. This change will be awesome in lower tiers.

“Treb / cata down the wall”

If they build a cata it’s in traited AC range. If they build a treb it can be counter-trebbed because guess who has the height advantage (hint: the person inside the tower).

Please tell me more about your T7 tactics.

Aneu.1748:

And yet again someone is making the assumption that THERE IS ONLY 1 ARROWCART.

Superior arrowcarts cost 40 supply to build, you can put an insane amount in a very small area and they are even more devastating now since they reach over double the length of the 1000 range of siege limit! I managed to get 12 prior to the buff, now I am sure I could get more to hit around a door…

So even if you destroy 4 on the ramparts that is still 8 you need to contend with that requires trebs which can be counter treb’d and not defended by swirls or any deflection.

Im tired of having the same redundant argument over and over with people who think this is ok for the game! Its really not and you will see that eventually.

no where in my post am i assuming there’s only 1 cart. in fact, i’m assuming there’s at least 6. why? because i’m a defensive specialist and know how to place defensive siege. what i am saying is: don’t use one dimensional attacks. you CAN counter anything that’s in the game if you do so properly. don’t argue, yes you can. everyone pinpointing into one area, and attacking solely from that area is NOT a proper counter. so…. adapt. if that’s all you know how to do, and refuse to adapt, then you might not be as awesome as you think you are and are going to go the way of the dinosaurs. the fact that you flat out refuse to accept that possibility, and berate people who flat out handed you a way to overcome it, is very telling in this regard.

now, personally, i don’t really care which direction you choose to go in. i do know which direction i’ll be going in. so you can go back to your meltdown now.

Too powerful arrowcarts? No fear , the solution is near. Nightcapping! That’s right , take your guild and preferably few other guilds with you and move to a low tier server playing a lopsided match. Make sure you pick the most powerful of the 3 servers. Wait until it’s dark and voila! No pesky arrowcarts shooting at you while you claw through the empty wooden keep doors.

Glad to be of help.

Gab Superstar.4059:

Get 20 people.

2 Catapults
1 Treb

Treb / cata down the wall.
Use treb to take out all arrow carts.
Use SR to stealth a group of 5 in to wreak havoc on the Arrow Carts remaining, giving your zerg enough time to get in there.

Oh wait, what was that? T1 meta revolves around removing as much of the player skill component as possible? Hmm. Tough luck. This change will be awesome in lower tiers.

Yes because a group of 5 is gonna take out 6+ AC’s that are being defended by 50 defenders. You also forget that any wall/door that goes down is now a choke point and anyone with half a brain will build AC’s to cover that breach immediately lol. Do you play this game??

I gotta tell you that there is no way a 5 man group is going to get through any breach in a tower/keep that i am defending. I will have every tower/keep siege capped with AC’s, so will the enemy, they already did before the buff. I’m sorry you guys don’t know how to defend your Towers/keeps and it was so easy to take them before and appearantly even easier now for the lower tiers? I guess you guys never have T3 upgrades?

Phantom.8130:

Aneu.1748:

And yet again someone is making the assumption that THERE IS ONLY 1 ARROWCART.

Superior arrowcarts cost 40 supply to build, you can put an insane amount in a very small area and they are even more devastating now since they reach over double the length of the 1000 range of siege limit! I managed to get 12 prior to the buff, now I am sure I could get more to hit around a door…

So even if you destroy 4 on the ramparts that is still 8 you need to contend with that requires trebs which can be counter treb’d and not defended by swirls or any deflection.

Im tired of having the same redundant argument over and over with people who think this is ok for the game! Its really not and you will see that eventually.

no where in my post am i assuming there’s only 1 cart. in fact, i’m assuming there’s at least 6. why? because i’m a defensive specialist and know how to place defensive siege. what i am saying is: don’t use one dimensional attacks. you CAN counter anything that’s in the game if you do so properly. don’t argue, yes you can. everyone pinpointing into one area, and attacking solely from that area is NOT a proper counter. so…. adapt. if that’s all you know how to do, and refuse to adapt, then you might not be as awesome as you think you are and are going to go the way of the dinosaurs. the fact that you flat out refuse to accept that possibility, and berate people who flat out handed you a way to overcome it, is very telling in this regard.

now, personally, i don’t really care which direction you choose to go in. i do know which direction i’ll be going in. so you can go back to your meltdown now.

Ok have fun with the direction you’re going in. Now you can let us be and we can keep trying to get Anet to fix this mess so we can get rid of this type of play that support total idiots and their bad play so we can get back to real player skill.

YW

Boomstin.3460:

Too powerful arrowcarts? No fear , the solution is near. Nightcapping! That’s right , take your guild and preferably few other guilds with you and move to a low tier server playing a lopsided match. Make sure you pick the most powerful of the 3 servers. Wait until it’s dark and voila! No pesky arrowcarts shooting at you while you claw through the empty wooden keep doors.

Glad to be of help.

I like this everyone should transfer to a T6 or less server and there can be 20 – 5 man groups running around capping nothing.

zastari.1730:

if they build a cata it’s in traited AC range. If they build a treb it can be counter-trebbed because guess who has the height advantage (hint: the person inside the tower).

Catapult is 4,000 range.
Traited Arrow Cart is 3,500 range.

zastari.1730:

Please tell me more about your T7 tactics.

Heh!

Nokaru.7831:

zastari.1730:

if they build a cata it’s in traited AC range. If they build a treb it can be counter-trebbed because guess who has the height advantage (hint: the person inside the tower).

Catapult is 4,000 range.
Traited AC is 3,500 range.

zastari.1730:

Please tell me more about your T7 tactics.

Heh!

How wide is the AoE radius on an AC? How wide is it after traited?

zastari.1730:

How wide is the AoE radius on an AC? How wide is it after traited?

It doesn’t reach.

The maximum range of the Arrow Cart circle is just short of the ability to “click on” someone or something. The maximum range of a Catapult is well outside that range.

zastari.1730:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Get 20 people.

2 Catapults
1 Treb

Treb / cata down the wall.
Use treb to take out all arrow carts.
Use SR to stealth a group of 5 in to wreak havoc on the Arrow Carts remaining, giving your zerg enough time to get in there.

Oh wait, what was that? T1 meta revolves around removing as much of the player skill component as possible? Hmm. Tough luck. This change will be awesome in lower tiers.

“Treb / cata down the wall”
If they build a cata it’s in traited AC range. If they build a treb it can be counter-trebbed because guess who has the height advantage (hint: the person inside the tower).
Please tell me more about your T7 tactics.

Yes because this is obviously the case for every tower in the game (lol).

Ruprect.7260:

Yes because a group of 5 is gonna take out 6+ AC’s that are being defended by 50 defenders. You also forget that any wall/door that goes down is now a choke point and anyone with half a brain will build AC’s to cover that breach immediately lol. Do you play this game??

I gotta tell you that there is no way a 5 man group is going to get through any breach in a tower/keep that i am defending. I will have every tower/keep siege capped with AC’s, so will the enemy, they already did before the buff. I’m sorry you guys don’t know how to defend your Towers/keeps and it was so easy to take them before and appearantly even easier now for the lower tiers? I guess you guys never have T3 upgrades?

If you are trying to take a tower with 50 defenders in it I am pretty sure you are doing it wrong, AC buff or no AC buff. Thanks for driving my point home.