You don’t see a problem with a class attacking a zerg and getting way 99% of the time?
Does he have all his cooldowns up? Or not? What classes are at the front of the zerg? What are the skill level of those players in a zerg? How big is the zerg? Do the other thieves in the zerg have venom share and baslisk and devourer ready? Is there a S/P haste theif? Is there a glass cannon shatter mesmer running sword/pistol in that group? Is the rangers elite up?
So many variables that don’t matter to Xsorus lets talk about balancing around trolling. I am sure every zerg you encounter you run right in there laying caltrops and poison wiping the entire zerg.
Delaying people is OP nerf anything that delays people.
At a certain number of people, you’ll never actually kill a player in the zerg…..This is true for most classes…You can harass them forever…you can even down people, however you won’t actually kill anyone..Cause they’ll be ressed faster then you can Stomp them.
But yes, I do run at every zerg I see to attack them.
The only change that is actually needed is a 1 point DD added to Poison Arrow and maybe Trops utility (fix culling too but that’s just a noob crutch excuse, it won’t matter much). A thief should not be able to initiate damage and remain stealthed. Even if the people who die to this are god awful. Trops are so easy to avoid though it’s hard to justify, even PvE players should know to stay out of red circles…
Other than that, showing videos of a thief trolling bads in WvW proves nothing but how terrible a large portion of the WvW player-base is. You can troll a zerg all day but then you run into 2-5 guided decent PvPers and treat them like the masses and they will roll you hard. I wonder if that’s happened to you yet on your Thief OP?
rofl, the population is just bad, so nerf to stealth needed grin
And no it’s not happened yet… know why?
Because if i get trouble I can teleport away..
Eles are faster than you. Refuge is counter-able to almost every profession. You got one 1200 step and then either Heartseeker spam or shortbow to run which is slower than both Eles and wars not to mention other thieves.
How can you not have run into any good players?
A. Ele’s are welcome to chase…..They won’t catch me though..Cause I just have to reach a mob (to which there is plenty) to get away consistently in PvP…and no group is going to chase a solo Thief around for 20 minutes hoping to catch him.
B. I don’t use Refuge, you can see that in the video.
C. I’ve been chased multiple times, It’s extremely easy to get away…Maybe you get caught cause you’re bad at the thief..I don’t though..So don’t know what to tell ya.
Haha too bad they don’t have public stat tracking so you can back up your claims of never dying. I simply don’t believe you. If it were true, I’d say you need to take more chances.
Anyway if you have to run you have already lost the fight. If you don’t feel like you lost then it’s just your own perception. Your enemy probably does. A Thief getting away is part of it’s core design.
If I have to run i’ve already lost the fight? Well seeing as you’re talking about a 5vs1 against the greatest players ever..Yes I should lose the fight…so ya…Only difference is if I was on any other class, I’d actually LOSE the fight as in dying…
I die every now and again, It’s rare though…in the past 2 month’s i’ve maybe died 8 or 9 times in PvP on my thief.
I actually died more when I relied on Shadows Refuge.
You actually require being outnumbered by bads or being around mobs to preform well. I’ve already told you how my mesmer can destroy a P/D 1 on 1. Other classes can preform fine against them as well such as condition swap necro and d/d ele. Ele is a stalemate at best vs a p/d even warriors/guards who know how to block/evade C&D. It’s pretty easy to not fight around mobs as well. If a P/D drags you over to mobs, you just ignore them. It’s no different than someone dragging you to guards or being a mesmer near a cliff… where they have a environmental advantage.
You asked what I would do if a group showed up, and i told you, move towards mobs..Now you’re saying “Well just leave him alone” defeating the purpose of your original question.
As for what you’d do on your Mesmer vs a thief, that’s great..Maybe you’re an amazing Mesmer player and pwn every thief you run across….I’ve personally not died to a Mesmer yet (almost did early though hehe, But that was my own fault, I still won the fight)
I actually fought a Guardian yesterday who I eventually killed, but he was annoying to kill I won’t lie and he probably could of ran to the keep we were next to at any point and lived.
But then he would of lost, cause running away is losing wink
So if I run away to reposition myself and not let my opponent have control over the fight, then come back and kill him, did I lose?
no..cause you killed your opponent….i would think you’d understand that.
We’re talking about “running” away and not coming back ….At least i’m sure that’s what Stiv is talking about.
If you were trying to zerg me down and you were getting close, I’m not going to hang around till you do it.
Lol @ thread.
If a thief is stealthing a lot, not just P/D, they will almost always have 30 in Shadow Arts and trait for Remove Condition every 3s and Heal in Stealth. They also will most likely have Hide In Shadows (if they don’t, then great!), Blinding Powder, and SR or SS.
Step 1: Thief runs at you. Dodge.
Step 2: Crowd Control – knockdowns/immobilize/chill/cripple. Thief stealths, removes condition, heals a little. Dodge.
Step 3: Stack on the AoE. Thief stealths more, removes condition, heals. Run around.
Step 4: Dodge/Block/Drop more AoE/Kite
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 until thief is no longer around or on the ground and dying.The thief will eventually burn through all of his utility stealths and will be forced to use CnD, which doesn’t really do a lot of damage anyways (and if he’s hitting you, then he’s in range of anything you’ve got).
This is pretty much how you fight any thief, no matter the build (heck, this is how I fight D/D Eles). P/D thieves that CnD and then 1 are giving themselves the revealed debuff each time, so they are just as targettable even if they haven’t rendered. BS thieves need to land that first blow. Otherwise, they’ll run. And DD / SB or DD/PP condition thieves like me, well, you’re not going to have an easy time with me due to Death Blossom’s evade giving me an extra 2-3 dodges, but time your skills right and you’ll take me down just the same or I’ll run away.
Heals a little?
I’m over 600 HP/S while stealthed… If you run no healing power it’s Heals a Little.. if you run Healing Power though…
To get that, you’re sacrificing Pwr, Vit, Toughness, or Precision. You can only stay stealthed for so long, even at 3s, you’re getting 1500 HP. If you have no Vit or Toughness, straight DPS is all that’s needed with Conditions limiting your ability to heal (such as Poisons and Bleeds), and if you have no Pwr or Precision, all I’d have to do is kite. And since I main as Thief, it’s made even easier for me.
Lol @ thread.
If a thief is stealthing a lot, not just P/D, they will almost always have 30 in Shadow Arts and trait for Remove Condition every 3s and Heal in Stealth. They also will most likely have Hide In Shadows (if they don’t, then great!), Blinding Powder, and SR or SS.
Step 1: Thief runs at you. Dodge.
Step 2: Crowd Control – knockdowns/immobilize/chill/cripple. Thief stealths, removes condition, heals a little. Dodge.
Step 3: Stack on the AoE. Thief stealths more, removes condition, heals. Run around.
Step 4: Dodge/Block/Drop more AoE/Kite
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 until thief is no longer around or on the ground and dying.The thief will eventually burn through all of his utility stealths and will be forced to use CnD, which doesn’t really do a lot of damage anyways (and if he’s hitting you, then he’s in range of anything you’ve got).
This is pretty much how you fight any thief, no matter the build (heck, this is how I fight D/D Eles). P/D thieves that CnD and then 1 are giving themselves the revealed debuff each time, so they are just as targettable even if they haven’t rendered. BS thieves need to land that first blow. Otherwise, they’ll run. And DD / SB or DD/PP condition thieves like me, well, you’re not going to have an easy time with me due to Death Blossom’s evade giving me an extra 2-3 dodges, but time your skills right and you’ll take me down just the same or I’ll run away.
Heals a little?
I’m over 600 HP/S while stealthed… If you run no healing power it’s Heals a Little.. if you run Healing Power though…
All about survival again, no excuse for having healing power, you shouldn’t be in stealth long enough to get enough reward out of it. Harass and survive, legitimate but still all about not dying not about attack.
lol….Shouldn’t be in stealth long enough? are you serious?
Lol @ thread.
If a thief is stealthing a lot, not just P/D, they will almost always have 30 in Shadow Arts and trait for Remove Condition every 3s and Heal in Stealth. They also will most likely have Hide In Shadows (if they don’t, then great!), Blinding Powder, and SR or SS.
Step 1: Thief runs at you. Dodge.
Step 2: Crowd Control – knockdowns/immobilize/chill/cripple. Thief stealths, removes condition, heals a little. Dodge.
Step 3: Stack on the AoE. Thief stealths more, removes condition, heals. Run around.
Step 4: Dodge/Block/Drop more AoE/Kite
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 until thief is no longer around or on the ground and dying.The thief will eventually burn through all of his utility stealths and will be forced to use CnD, which doesn’t really do a lot of damage anyways (and if he’s hitting you, then he’s in range of anything you’ve got).
This is pretty much how you fight any thief, no matter the build (heck, this is how I fight D/D Eles). P/D thieves that CnD and then 1 are giving themselves the revealed debuff each time, so they are just as targettable even if they haven’t rendered. BS thieves need to land that first blow. Otherwise, they’ll run. And DD / SB or DD/PP condition thieves like me, well, you’re not going to have an easy time with me due to Death Blossom’s evade giving me an extra 2-3 dodges, but time your skills right and you’ll take me down just the same or I’ll run away.
Heals a little?
I’m over 600 HP/S while stealthed… If you run no healing power it’s Heals a Little.. if you run Healing Power though…
To get that, you’re sacrificing Pwr, Vit, Toughness, or Precision. You can only stay stealthed for so long, even at 3s, you’re getting 1500 HP. If you have no Vit or Toughness, straight DPS is all that’s needed with Conditions limiting your ability to heal (such as Poisons and Bleeds), and if you have no Pwr or Precision, all I’d have to do is kite. And since I main as Thief, it’s made even easier for me.
You have to Sacrifice something, In this case Power/precision/toughness (i could get toughness, and I will eventually, but Its not as good as Vit on a thief because we lack Protection)
you can see my HP in the videos, I’m not lacking on HP.
And since most of my damage is from conditions it’s not a huge deal to sacrifice power/precision
Lol @ thread.
If a thief is stealthing a lot, not just P/D, they will almost always have 30 in Shadow Arts and trait for Remove Condition every 3s and Heal in Stealth. They also will most likely have Hide In Shadows (if they don’t, then great!), Blinding Powder, and SR or SS.
Step 1: Thief runs at you. Dodge.
Step 2: Crowd Control – knockdowns/immobilize/chill/cripple. Thief stealths, removes condition, heals a little. Dodge.
Step 3: Stack on the AoE. Thief stealths more, removes condition, heals. Run around.
Step 4: Dodge/Block/Drop more AoE/Kite
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 until thief is no longer around or on the ground and dying.The thief will eventually burn through all of his utility stealths and will be forced to use CnD, which doesn’t really do a lot of damage anyways (and if he’s hitting you, then he’s in range of anything you’ve got).
This is pretty much how you fight any thief, no matter the build (heck, this is how I fight D/D Eles). P/D thieves that CnD and then 1 are giving themselves the revealed debuff each time, so they are just as targettable even if they haven’t rendered. BS thieves need to land that first blow. Otherwise, they’ll run. And DD / SB or DD/PP condition thieves like me, well, you’re not going to have an easy time with me due to Death Blossom’s evade giving me an extra 2-3 dodges, but time your skills right and you’ll take me down just the same or I’ll run away.
Heals a little?
I’m over 600 HP/S while stealthed… If you run no healing power it’s Heals a Little.. if you run Healing Power though…
To get that, you’re sacrificing Pwr, Vit, Toughness, or Precision. You can only stay stealthed for so long, even at 3s, you’re getting 1500 HP. If you have no Vit or Toughness, straight DPS is all that’s needed with Conditions limiting your ability to heal (such as Poisons and Bleeds), and if you have no Pwr or Precision, all I’d have to do is kite. And since I main as Thief, it’s made even easier for me.
You have to Sacrifice something, In this case Power/precision/toughness (i could get toughness, and I will eventually, but Its not as good as Vit on a thief because we lack Protection)
you can see my HP in the videos, I’m not lacking on HP.
And since most of my damage is from conditions it’s not a huge deal to sacrifice power/precision
When you were playing your thief, did you contribute with something else other than zerg kills?
To be fair Xsorius you state that you are not great at being a thief.
The way you are playing concentrating on sb and trops built for maximum escape and survival can only nibble at players.
You are tanky and you are annoying zergs. This has a place in www.
What is unfair is to claim stealth is op because you aren’t dying.
Play aggressively p/d trying to keep pistol bleed stacks up and dying will very quickly enter the equation both for opponents and yourself.
Xsorus, have you ever tried to learn how to overcome current thieves. If Anet never fixed this in the next decade and you wanted to pvp. What would you do to take down a thief? Or would you just quit or play a thief. Because a real player would learn how to fight a thief on his main—which I assume is your ranger. But seems like you already took the short route and rolled a thief believing it’s stealth mechanic is the best in the game.
Also, I have no idea why you think running away for you is a win. If you ran away, in retrospect, the enemy got away from you as well and they can continue onward to do whatever they want. You may have slowed him down, but he also prevented you from harassing others who you could have potentially killed. I see all your points very close minded and not considering other perspectives. I would enjoy having a better dicussion if you would answer things through the light of opposing perspectives instead of your stubborn “My opinions are right, you guys don’t get it at all, sarcasm sarcasm grin” attitude.
And to support the other side as a decent player, fine, if you want a stealth nerf, at most increase the revealed debuff, or make them more weak/vulnerable in stealth aka take more damage, do less damage with stealthed skills. And any skill/utility move proc the revealed debuff. I do not believe in changing the stealth mechanic though.
You asked what I would do if a group showed up, and i told you, move towards mobs..Now you’re saying “Well just leave him alone” defeating the purpose of your original question.
As for what you’d do on your Mesmer vs a thief, that’s great..Maybe you’re an amazing Mesmer player and pwn every thief you run across….I’ve personally not died to a Mesmer yet (almost did early though hehe, But that was my own fault, I still won the fight)
I actually fought a Guardian yesterday who I eventually killed, but he was annoying to kill I won’t lie and he probably could of ran to the keep we were next to at any point and lived.
But then he would of lost, cause running away is losing wink
The chasing a P/D to mobs was more a 1 on 1 thing. A group probably may still chase or ignore and move on.. who knows.. Either way, you are at least admitting that there can be people that force you to stop your shenanigans and retreat to whatever you need to. It doesn’t matter if you get out of combat and WP back or run to mobs or a supply camp or go inside a keep. Yes that’s a loss of that round/battle whatever you want to call it. I guess that is a genius part of Anet’s design. They have made a game where a fight can happen and both sides can feel like they win.
Kudos to that Guard for sticking around. It’s more fun to see a fight through anyway. As you play P/D more you will run into singles of every prof that will put up a fight and maybe, who knows.. one day you will die in a 1 on 1.
I see that you main’d a ranger for a long time. P/D has always been a hard counter to ranger due to them not being able to put their pet away. I wonder if that’s what the draw was? You haven’t thought of ways for your ranger to beat yourself in a 1 on 1 yet?
(edited by Stiv.1820)
Lol @ thread.
If a thief is stealthing a lot, not just P/D, they will almost always have 30 in Shadow Arts and trait for Remove Condition every 3s and Heal in Stealth. They also will most likely have Hide In Shadows (if they don’t, then great!), Blinding Powder, and SR or SS.
Step 1: Thief runs at you. Dodge.
Step 2: Crowd Control – knockdowns/immobilize/chill/cripple. Thief stealths, removes condition, heals a little. Dodge.
Step 3: Stack on the AoE. Thief stealths more, removes condition, heals. Run around.
Step 4: Dodge/Block/Drop more AoE/Kite
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 until thief is no longer around or on the ground and dying.The thief will eventually burn through all of his utility stealths and will be forced to use CnD, which doesn’t really do a lot of damage anyways (and if he’s hitting you, then he’s in range of anything you’ve got).
This is pretty much how you fight any thief, no matter the build (heck, this is how I fight D/D Eles). P/D thieves that CnD and then 1 are giving themselves the revealed debuff each time, so they are just as targettable even if they haven’t rendered. BS thieves need to land that first blow. Otherwise, they’ll run. And DD / SB or DD/PP condition thieves like me, well, you’re not going to have an easy time with me due to Death Blossom’s evade giving me an extra 2-3 dodges, but time your skills right and you’ll take me down just the same or I’ll run away.
Heals a little?
I’m over 600 HP/S while stealthed… If you run no healing power it’s Heals a Little.. if you run Healing Power though…
To get that, you’re sacrificing Pwr, Vit, Toughness, or Precision. You can only stay stealthed for so long, even at 3s, you’re getting 1500 HP. If you have no Vit or Toughness, straight DPS is all that’s needed with Conditions limiting your ability to heal (such as Poisons and Bleeds), and if you have no Pwr or Precision, all I’d have to do is kite. And since I main as Thief, it’s made even easier for me.
You have to Sacrifice something, In this case Power/precision/toughness (i could get toughness, and I will eventually, but Its not as good as Vit on a thief because we lack Protection)
you can see my HP in the videos, I’m not lacking on HP.
And since most of my damage is from conditions it’s not a huge deal to sacrifice power/precision
When you were playing your thief, did you contribute with something else other thank zerg kills?
Are you going to go about how I didn’t contribute points to the World vs World match?
Cause…It’s friday..
We had 550 to 600 points we were getting..
and we’re currently
289k total points vs 150k to the next closest team, and 145k to that group I was fighting..
So yea..Maybe I should of done more for the War effort since I think we’re going to lose grin
You asked what I would do if a group showed up, and i told you, move towards mobs..Now you’re saying “Well just leave him alone” defeating the purpose of your original question.
As for what you’d do on your Mesmer vs a thief, that’s great..Maybe you’re an amazing Mesmer player and pwn every thief you run across….I’ve personally not died to a Mesmer yet (almost did early though hehe, But that was my own fault, I still won the fight)
I actually fought a Guardian yesterday who I eventually killed, but he was annoying to kill I won’t lie and he probably could of ran to the keep we were next to at any point and lived.
But then he would of lost, cause running away is losing wink
The chasing a P/D to mobs was more a 1 no 1 thing. A group probably may still chase or ignore. Either way, you are at least admitting that there can be people that force you to stop your shenanigans and retreat to whatever you need to. It doesn’t matter if you get out of combat and WP back or run to mobs or a supply camp or go inside a keep. Yes that’s a loss of that round/battle whatever you want to call it. I guess that is a genius part of Anet’s design. They have made a game where a fight can happen and both sides can feel like they win.
Kudos to that Guard for sticking around. It’s more fun to see a fight through anyway. As you play P/D more you will run into singles of every prof that will put up a fight and maybe, who knows.. one day you will die in a 1 on 1.
I see that you main’d a ranger for a long time. P/D has always been a hard counter to ranger due to them not being able to put their pet away. I wonder if that’s what the draw was? You haven’t thought of ways for your ranger to beat yourself in a 1 on 1 yet?
I started on thief as a S/D…I only switched recently to P/D because S/D was getting boring. as for why I rolled a thief? Friend made one and we wanted to run together (tried doing it on ranger, but I’d end up dying while he’d get away cause he’s a thief)
Lol @ thread.
If a thief is stealthing a lot, not just P/D, they will almost always have 30 in Shadow Arts and trait for Remove Condition every 3s and Heal in Stealth. They also will most likely have Hide In Shadows (if they don’t, then great!), Blinding Powder, and SR or SS.
Step 1: Thief runs at you. Dodge.
Step 2: Crowd Control – knockdowns/immobilize/chill/cripple. Thief stealths, removes condition, heals a little. Dodge.
Step 3: Stack on the AoE. Thief stealths more, removes condition, heals. Run around.
Step 4: Dodge/Block/Drop more AoE/Kite
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 until thief is no longer around or on the ground and dying.The thief will eventually burn through all of his utility stealths and will be forced to use CnD, which doesn’t really do a lot of damage anyways (and if he’s hitting you, then he’s in range of anything you’ve got).
This is pretty much how you fight any thief, no matter the build (heck, this is how I fight D/D Eles). P/D thieves that CnD and then 1 are giving themselves the revealed debuff each time, so they are just as targettable even if they haven’t rendered. BS thieves need to land that first blow. Otherwise, they’ll run. And DD / SB or DD/PP condition thieves like me, well, you’re not going to have an easy time with me due to Death Blossom’s evade giving me an extra 2-3 dodges, but time your skills right and you’ll take me down just the same or I’ll run away.
Heals a little?
I’m over 600 HP/S while stealthed… If you run no healing power it’s Heals a Little.. if you run Healing Power though…
To get that, you’re sacrificing Pwr, Vit, Toughness, or Precision. You can only stay stealthed for so long, even at 3s, you’re getting 1500 HP. If you have no Vit or Toughness, straight DPS is all that’s needed with Conditions limiting your ability to heal (such as Poisons and Bleeds), and if you have no Pwr or Precision, all I’d have to do is kite. And since I main as Thief, it’s made even easier for me.
You have to Sacrifice something, In this case Power/precision/toughness (i could get toughness, and I will eventually, but Its not as good as Vit on a thief because we lack Protection)
you can see my HP in the videos, I’m not lacking on HP.
And since most of my damage is from conditions it’s not a huge deal to sacrifice power/precision
When you were playing your thief, did you contribute with something else other thank zerg kills?
Are you going to go about how I didn’t contribute points to the World vs World match?
Cause…It’s friday..
We had 550 to 600 points we were getting..
and we’re currently
289k total points vs 150k to the next closest team, and 145k to that group I was fighting..
So yea..Maybe I should of done more for the War effort since I think we’re going to lose grin
Yes, it’s friday, maybe you should have done something for WvW but who cares when reset is almost here no? but I don’t get where your request about stealth relies, I mean, yes you killed X of ppl in a zerg, you farmed a lot of badges and you can tell me everything you want, but I think if you’re a complaining about a mechaninc that it’s screwing with WvW then you should be actually talking about it, don’t you think?
By the way I’m not here to be condescendat with you lol, I understand why you’re so defensive thought, after reading this thread it’s kinda obvious but I’m just trying to understand your point
Xsorus, have you ever tried to learn how to overcome current thieves. If Anet never fixed this in the next decade and you wanted to pvp. What would you do to take down a thief? Or would you just quit or play a thief. Because a real player would learn how to fight a thief on his main—which I assume is your ranger. But seems like you already took the short route and rolled a thief believing it’s stealth mechanic is the best in the game.
Also, I have no idea why you think running away for you is a win. If you ran away, in retrospect, the enemy got away from you as well and they can continue onward to do whatever they want. You may have slowed him down, but he also prevented you from harassing others who you could have potentially killed. I see all your points very close minded and not considering other perspectives. I would enjoy having a better dicussion if you would answer things through the light of opposing perspectives instead of your stubborn “My opinions are right, you guys don’t get it at all, sarcasm sarcasm grin” attitude.
And to support the other side as a decent player, fine, if you want a stealth nerf, at most increase the revealed debuff, or make them more weak/vulnerable in stealth aka take more damage, do less damage with stealthed skills. And any skill/utility move proc the revealed debuff. I do not believe in changing the stealth mechanic though.
Already said why I made my thief, I actually don’t play the ranger as much anymore.
It’s gotten Stale, plus they nerfed Guard now..so I have even less reason to play it.
Lol @ thread.
If a thief is stealthing a lot, not just P/D, they will almost always have 30 in Shadow Arts and trait for Remove Condition every 3s and Heal in Stealth. They also will most likely have Hide In Shadows (if they don’t, then great!), Blinding Powder, and SR or SS.
Step 1: Thief runs at you. Dodge.
Step 2: Crowd Control – knockdowns/immobilize/chill/cripple. Thief stealths, removes condition, heals a little. Dodge.
Step 3: Stack on the AoE. Thief stealths more, removes condition, heals. Run around.
Step 4: Dodge/Block/Drop more AoE/Kite
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 until thief is no longer around or on the ground and dying.The thief will eventually burn through all of his utility stealths and will be forced to use CnD, which doesn’t really do a lot of damage anyways (and if he’s hitting you, then he’s in range of anything you’ve got).
This is pretty much how you fight any thief, no matter the build (heck, this is how I fight D/D Eles). P/D thieves that CnD and then 1 are giving themselves the revealed debuff each time, so they are just as targettable even if they haven’t rendered. BS thieves need to land that first blow. Otherwise, they’ll run. And DD / SB or DD/PP condition thieves like me, well, you’re not going to have an easy time with me due to Death Blossom’s evade giving me an extra 2-3 dodges, but time your skills right and you’ll take me down just the same or I’ll run away.
Heals a little?
I’m over 600 HP/S while stealthed… If you run no healing power it’s Heals a Little.. if you run Healing Power though…
To get that, you’re sacrificing Pwr, Vit, Toughness, or Precision. You can only stay stealthed for so long, even at 3s, you’re getting 1500 HP. If you have no Vit or Toughness, straight DPS is all that’s needed with Conditions limiting your ability to heal (such as Poisons and Bleeds), and if you have no Pwr or Precision, all I’d have to do is kite. And since I main as Thief, it’s made even easier for me.
You have to Sacrifice something, In this case Power/precision/toughness (i could get toughness, and I will eventually, but Its not as good as Vit on a thief because we lack Protection)
you can see my HP in the videos, I’m not lacking on HP.
And since most of my damage is from conditions it’s not a huge deal to sacrifice power/precision
When you were playing your thief, did you contribute with something else other than zerg kills?
He’s 1 person, fighting 10-30 people. Imagine if there were five of him, or hell, ten of him.
When I run a five man Thief team, the stuff we pull of is absolutely insane, and now that crossed swords won’t show up for five people, holy mother did they just hand us our cake, and allowed us to eat it as well.
Lol @ thread.
If a thief is stealthing a lot, not just P/D, they will almost always have 30 in Shadow Arts and trait for Remove Condition every 3s and Heal in Stealth. They also will most likely have Hide In Shadows (if they don’t, then great!), Blinding Powder, and SR or SS.
Step 1: Thief runs at you. Dodge.
Step 2: Crowd Control – knockdowns/immobilize/chill/cripple. Thief stealths, removes condition, heals a little. Dodge.
Step 3: Stack on the AoE. Thief stealths more, removes condition, heals. Run around.
Step 4: Dodge/Block/Drop more AoE/Kite
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 until thief is no longer around or on the ground and dying.The thief will eventually burn through all of his utility stealths and will be forced to use CnD, which doesn’t really do a lot of damage anyways (and if he’s hitting you, then he’s in range of anything you’ve got).
This is pretty much how you fight any thief, no matter the build (heck, this is how I fight D/D Eles). P/D thieves that CnD and then 1 are giving themselves the revealed debuff each time, so they are just as targettable even if they haven’t rendered. BS thieves need to land that first blow. Otherwise, they’ll run. And DD / SB or DD/PP condition thieves like me, well, you’re not going to have an easy time with me due to Death Blossom’s evade giving me an extra 2-3 dodges, but time your skills right and you’ll take me down just the same or I’ll run away.
Heals a little?
I’m over 600 HP/S while stealthed… If you run no healing power it’s Heals a Little.. if you run Healing Power though…
To get that, you’re sacrificing Pwr, Vit, Toughness, or Precision. You can only stay stealthed for so long, even at 3s, you’re getting 1500 HP. If you have no Vit or Toughness, straight DPS is all that’s needed with Conditions limiting your ability to heal (such as Poisons and Bleeds), and if you have no Pwr or Precision, all I’d have to do is kite. And since I main as Thief, it’s made even easier for me.
You have to Sacrifice something, In this case Power/precision/toughness (i could get toughness, and I will eventually, but Its not as good as Vit on a thief because we lack Protection)
you can see my HP in the videos, I’m not lacking on HP.
And since most of my damage is from conditions it’s not a huge deal to sacrifice power/precision
When you were playing your thief, did you contribute with something else other thank zerg kills?
Are you going to go about how I didn’t contribute points to the World vs World match?
Cause…It’s friday..
We had 550 to 600 points we were getting..
and we’re currently
289k total points vs 150k to the next closest team, and 145k to that group I was fighting..
So yea..Maybe I should of done more for the War effort since I think we’re going to lose grin
Yes, it’s friday, maybe you should have done something for WvW but who cares when reset is almost here no? but I don’t get where your request about stealth relies, I mean, yes you killed X of ppl in a zerg, you farmed a lot of badges and you can tell me everything you want, but I think if you’re a complaining about a mechaninc that it’s screwing with WvW then you should be actually talking about it, don’t you think?
By the way I’m not here to be condescendat with you lol, I understand why you’re so defensive thought, after reading this thread it’s kinda obvious but I’m just trying to understand your point
Because I don’t believe 1 person should be able to attack a large group of people, possibly down and kill one, and get away whenever they want..
It requires no skill to play the class.
Lol @ thread.
If a thief is stealthing a lot, not just P/D, they will almost always have 30 in Shadow Arts and trait for Remove Condition every 3s and Heal in Stealth. They also will most likely have Hide In Shadows (if they don’t, then great!), Blinding Powder, and SR or SS.
Step 1: Thief runs at you. Dodge.
Step 2: Crowd Control – knockdowns/immobilize/chill/cripple. Thief stealths, removes condition, heals a little. Dodge.
Step 3: Stack on the AoE. Thief stealths more, removes condition, heals. Run around.
Step 4: Dodge/Block/Drop more AoE/Kite
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 until thief is no longer around or on the ground and dying.The thief will eventually burn through all of his utility stealths and will be forced to use CnD, which doesn’t really do a lot of damage anyways (and if he’s hitting you, then he’s in range of anything you’ve got).
This is pretty much how you fight any thief, no matter the build (heck, this is how I fight D/D Eles). P/D thieves that CnD and then 1 are giving themselves the revealed debuff each time, so they are just as targettable even if they haven’t rendered. BS thieves need to land that first blow. Otherwise, they’ll run. And DD / SB or DD/PP condition thieves like me, well, you’re not going to have an easy time with me due to Death Blossom’s evade giving me an extra 2-3 dodges, but time your skills right and you’ll take me down just the same or I’ll run away.
Heals a little?
I’m over 600 HP/S while stealthed… If you run no healing power it’s Heals a Little.. if you run Healing Power though…
To get that, you’re sacrificing Pwr, Vit, Toughness, or Precision. You can only stay stealthed for so long, even at 3s, you’re getting 1500 HP. If you have no Vit or Toughness, straight DPS is all that’s needed with Conditions limiting your ability to heal (such as Poisons and Bleeds), and if you have no Pwr or Precision, all I’d have to do is kite. And since I main as Thief, it’s made even easier for me.
You have to Sacrifice something, In this case Power/precision/toughness (i could get toughness, and I will eventually, but Its not as good as Vit on a thief because we lack Protection)
you can see my HP in the videos, I’m not lacking on HP.
And since most of my damage is from conditions it’s not a huge deal to sacrifice power/precision
When you were playing your thief, did you contribute with something else other than zerg kills?
He’s 1 person, fighting 10-30 people. Imagine if there were five of him, or hell, ten of him.
When I run a five man Thief team, the stuff we pull of is absolutely insane, and now that crossed swords won’t show up for five people, holy mother did they just hand us our cake, and allowed us to eat it as well.
Oh yea.. imagine 5 poison arrows.. dat one stack deeps…. oh no….. one condition clear…
Xsorus, have you ever tried to learn how to overcome current thieves. If Anet never fixed this in the next decade and you wanted to pvp. What would you do to take down a thief? Or would you just quit or play a thief. Because a real player would learn how to fight a thief on his main—which I assume is your ranger. But seems like you already took the short route and rolled a thief believing it’s stealth mechanic is the best in the game.
Also, I have no idea why you think running away for you is a win. If you ran away, in retrospect, the enemy got away from you as well and they can continue onward to do whatever they want. You may have slowed him down, but he also prevented you from harassing others who you could have potentially killed. I see all your points very close minded and not considering other perspectives. I would enjoy having a better dicussion if you would answer things through the light of opposing perspectives instead of your stubborn “My opinions are right, you guys don’t get it at all, sarcasm sarcasm grin” attitude.
And to support the other side as a decent player, fine, if you want a stealth nerf, at most increase the revealed debuff, or make them more weak/vulnerable in stealth aka take more damage, do less damage with stealthed skills. And any skill/utility move proc the revealed debuff. I do not believe in changing the stealth mechanic though.
He’s one person fighting 10 to 30 people, and living. Are you really going to use this kind of argument? Imagine if there were five, or even ten doing this. My five man Thief team often destroys entire Zergs.
Lol @ thread.
If a thief is stealthing a lot, not just P/D, they will almost always have 30 in Shadow Arts and trait for Remove Condition every 3s and Heal in Stealth. They also will most likely have Hide In Shadows (if they don’t, then great!), Blinding Powder, and SR or SS.
Step 1: Thief runs at you. Dodge.
Step 2: Crowd Control – knockdowns/immobilize/chill/cripple. Thief stealths, removes condition, heals a little. Dodge.
Step 3: Stack on the AoE. Thief stealths more, removes condition, heals. Run around.
Step 4: Dodge/Block/Drop more AoE/Kite
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 until thief is no longer around or on the ground and dying.The thief will eventually burn through all of his utility stealths and will be forced to use CnD, which doesn’t really do a lot of damage anyways (and if he’s hitting you, then he’s in range of anything you’ve got).
This is pretty much how you fight any thief, no matter the build (heck, this is how I fight D/D Eles). P/D thieves that CnD and then 1 are giving themselves the revealed debuff each time, so they are just as targettable even if they haven’t rendered. BS thieves need to land that first blow. Otherwise, they’ll run. And DD / SB or DD/PP condition thieves like me, well, you’re not going to have an easy time with me due to Death Blossom’s evade giving me an extra 2-3 dodges, but time your skills right and you’ll take me down just the same or I’ll run away.
Heals a little?
I’m over 600 HP/S while stealthed… If you run no healing power it’s Heals a Little.. if you run Healing Power though…
To get that, you’re sacrificing Pwr, Vit, Toughness, or Precision. You can only stay stealthed for so long, even at 3s, you’re getting 1500 HP. If you have no Vit or Toughness, straight DPS is all that’s needed with Conditions limiting your ability to heal (such as Poisons and Bleeds), and if you have no Pwr or Precision, all I’d have to do is kite. And since I main as Thief, it’s made even easier for me.
You have to Sacrifice something, In this case Power/precision/toughness (i could get toughness, and I will eventually, but Its not as good as Vit on a thief because we lack Protection)
you can see my HP in the videos, I’m not lacking on HP.
And since most of my damage is from conditions it’s not a huge deal to sacrifice power/precision
When you were playing your thief, did you contribute with something else other than zerg kills?
He’s 1 person, fighting 10-30 people. Imagine if there were five of him, or hell, ten of him.
When I run a five man Thief team, the stuff we pull of is absolutely insane, and now that crossed swords won’t show up for five people, holy mother did they just hand us our cake, and allowed us to eat it as well.
Oh yea.. imagine 5 poison arrows.. oh no….. one condition clear…
I now know why you suck at playing the Thief.
Lol @ thread.
If a thief is stealthing a lot, not just P/D, they will almost always have 30 in Shadow Arts and trait for Remove Condition every 3s and Heal in Stealth. They also will most likely have Hide In Shadows (if they don’t, then great!), Blinding Powder, and SR or SS.
Step 1: Thief runs at you. Dodge.
Step 2: Crowd Control – knockdowns/immobilize/chill/cripple. Thief stealths, removes condition, heals a little. Dodge.
Step 3: Stack on the AoE. Thief stealths more, removes condition, heals. Run around.
Step 4: Dodge/Block/Drop more AoE/Kite
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 until thief is no longer around or on the ground and dying.The thief will eventually burn through all of his utility stealths and will be forced to use CnD, which doesn’t really do a lot of damage anyways (and if he’s hitting you, then he’s in range of anything you’ve got).
This is pretty much how you fight any thief, no matter the build (heck, this is how I fight D/D Eles). P/D thieves that CnD and then 1 are giving themselves the revealed debuff each time, so they are just as targettable even if they haven’t rendered. BS thieves need to land that first blow. Otherwise, they’ll run. And DD / SB or DD/PP condition thieves like me, well, you’re not going to have an easy time with me due to Death Blossom’s evade giving me an extra 2-3 dodges, but time your skills right and you’ll take me down just the same or I’ll run away.
Heals a little?
I’m over 600 HP/S while stealthed… If you run no healing power it’s Heals a Little.. if you run Healing Power though…
To get that, you’re sacrificing Pwr, Vit, Toughness, or Precision. You can only stay stealthed for so long, even at 3s, you’re getting 1500 HP. If you have no Vit or Toughness, straight DPS is all that’s needed with Conditions limiting your ability to heal (such as Poisons and Bleeds), and if you have no Pwr or Precision, all I’d have to do is kite. And since I main as Thief, it’s made even easier for me.
You have to Sacrifice something, In this case Power/precision/toughness (i could get toughness, and I will eventually, but Its not as good as Vit on a thief because we lack Protection)
you can see my HP in the videos, I’m not lacking on HP.
And since most of my damage is from conditions it’s not a huge deal to sacrifice power/precision
When you were playing your thief, did you contribute with something else other than zerg kills?
He’s 1 person, fighting 10-30 people. Imagine if there were five of him, or hell, ten of him.
When I run a five man Thief team, the stuff we pull of is absolutely insane, and now that crossed swords won’t show up for five people, holy mother did they just hand us our cake, and allowed us to eat it as well.
An ele can fight 10-30 people, and run away too. btdubs. I don’t see anyone starting a 12 page thread on it though. And kudos for rolling thieves harassing wvw. Seriously though, how does this affect the game of WvW? It just hurts roamers who aren’t ready for war obviously. If you have a 5 main thief team, KILL a 30 people zerg. I will /sign this nerf thread.
Okay… lets take a step back errrrbody calm down… Flame wars are fun guys… Okay @Xsorus Why do you think thief needs a nerf? I believe that is your standpoint? (errr well stealth but we all see where this thread has gone.)
@Others What reasons do you have for stealth not needing some sort of nerf? I mean even the smallest type such as the reduction damage of backstab… Not by a lot… but at least giving players SOME chance to react… Or what about making it so that caltrops and poison field break stealth… As for damage breaking it no… I know that would REALLY really break the thief class… But other things… We’re all civil here right? We can come to something… My proposal to deal with some of the perks that thieves get while stealthed…. anyone or combo of them
1) Anet should remove one of these perks from being stealthed
a) Condi removal for every three seconds while stealth (combined
with heals it competes with ele’s condi removal)
b) Regen while stealthed… yeah w/o healing power it isn’t all that great…
But it is still one of the little things that is causing big problems
c) 50% faster while stealthed… Seriously aside from stealth bombers when was the
last time sneaky=fast? How many sneaky fast navy seals are there? I know its
a game and all but seriously this is just a ridiculous trait that costs too little
d) stealth SHOULD break on a block… Invuln/evades yeah i’ll give that to you
but you are still hitting something when its blocked whether it be that shield/
off hand sword its basically guaranteeing a free HUGE hit to thieves when they
stay stealthed and their first attack was blocked… Not really fair to someone
that was not being a baddie/noob and could predict the attack change.
If someone blocks my shatters on my Mesmer I don’t get an immediate free
redo on the burst and no other class does when their attacks are blocked
except thieves
e) finally Caltrops and choking gas should break stealth… I don’t care how you want
to justify it, these skills do damage and therefore should suffer the revealed debuff…
If a Mesmer pops a shatter from stealth they get revealed… Why? The clones blew up
not the Mesmer they shouldn’t be revealed! But they are, same concept applies to
thieves. This would also make thieves consider things like taking the trait that drops
caltrops on a dodge… It would make them choose something either/stealth heavy or
mobility…
My 2 cents… on things that would help with thieves (erm,,, stealth) in WvW. Any one of these minor changes would prolly make a lot more people happy and the only thieves that would be ticked would be the ones that can’t adapt… Every class has had to adapt to nerfs to some of their core mechanics (generalization I know of a few specific ones.) These changes would not break the thief class in any way
Lol @ thread.
If a thief is stealthing a lot, not just P/D, they will almost always have 30 in Shadow Arts and trait for Remove Condition every 3s and Heal in Stealth. They also will most likely have Hide In Shadows (if they don’t, then great!), Blinding Powder, and SR or SS.
Step 1: Thief runs at you. Dodge.
Step 2: Crowd Control – knockdowns/immobilize/chill/cripple. Thief stealths, removes condition, heals a little. Dodge.
Step 3: Stack on the AoE. Thief stealths more, removes condition, heals. Run around.
Step 4: Dodge/Block/Drop more AoE/Kite
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 until thief is no longer around or on the ground and dying.The thief will eventually burn through all of his utility stealths and will be forced to use CnD, which doesn’t really do a lot of damage anyways (and if he’s hitting you, then he’s in range of anything you’ve got).
This is pretty much how you fight any thief, no matter the build (heck, this is how I fight D/D Eles). P/D thieves that CnD and then 1 are giving themselves the revealed debuff each time, so they are just as targettable even if they haven’t rendered. BS thieves need to land that first blow. Otherwise, they’ll run. And DD / SB or DD/PP condition thieves like me, well, you’re not going to have an easy time with me due to Death Blossom’s evade giving me an extra 2-3 dodges, but time your skills right and you’ll take me down just the same or I’ll run away.
Heals a little?
I’m over 600 HP/S while stealthed… If you run no healing power it’s Heals a Little.. if you run Healing Power though…
To get that, you’re sacrificing Pwr, Vit, Toughness, or Precision. You can only stay stealthed for so long, even at 3s, you’re getting 1500 HP. If you have no Vit or Toughness, straight DPS is all that’s needed with Conditions limiting your ability to heal (such as Poisons and Bleeds), and if you have no Pwr or Precision, all I’d have to do is kite. And since I main as Thief, it’s made even easier for me.
You have to Sacrifice something, In this case Power/precision/toughness (i could get toughness, and I will eventually, but Its not as good as Vit on a thief because we lack Protection)
you can see my HP in the videos, I’m not lacking on HP.
And since most of my damage is from conditions it’s not a huge deal to sacrifice power/precision
When you were playing your thief, did you contribute with something else other thank zerg kills?
Are you going to go about how I didn’t contribute points to the World vs World match?
Cause…It’s friday..
We had 550 to 600 points we were getting..
and we’re currently
289k total points vs 150k to the next closest team, and 145k to that group I was fighting..
So yea..Maybe I should of done more for the War effort since I think we’re going to lose grin
Yes, it’s friday, maybe you should have done something for WvW but who cares when reset is almost here no? but I don’t get where your request about stealth relies, I mean, yes you killed X of ppl in a zerg, you farmed a lot of badges and you can tell me everything you want, but I think if you’re a complaining about a mechaninc that it’s screwing with WvW then you should be actually talking about it, don’t you think?
By the way I’m not here to be condescendat with you lol, I understand why you’re so defensive thought, after reading this thread it’s kinda obvious but I’m just trying to understand your point
Because I don’t believe 1 person should be able to attack a large group of people, possibly down and kill one, and get away whenever they want..
It requires no skill to play the class.
I guess you’re familiar with D/D eles no? if you disagree about 1 person contributing too much in zerg fights, what do you think of that class/build then?
Lol @ thread.
If a thief is stealthing a lot, not just P/D, they will almost always have 30 in Shadow Arts and trait for Remove Condition every 3s and Heal in Stealth. They also will most likely have Hide In Shadows (if they don’t, then great!), Blinding Powder, and SR or SS.
Step 1: Thief runs at you. Dodge.
Step 2: Crowd Control – knockdowns/immobilize/chill/cripple. Thief stealths, removes condition, heals a little. Dodge.
Step 3: Stack on the AoE. Thief stealths more, removes condition, heals. Run around.
Step 4: Dodge/Block/Drop more AoE/Kite
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 until thief is no longer around or on the ground and dying.The thief will eventually burn through all of his utility stealths and will be forced to use CnD, which doesn’t really do a lot of damage anyways (and if he’s hitting you, then he’s in range of anything you’ve got).
This is pretty much how you fight any thief, no matter the build (heck, this is how I fight D/D Eles). P/D thieves that CnD and then 1 are giving themselves the revealed debuff each time, so they are just as targettable even if they haven’t rendered. BS thieves need to land that first blow. Otherwise, they’ll run. And DD / SB or DD/PP condition thieves like me, well, you’re not going to have an easy time with me due to Death Blossom’s evade giving me an extra 2-3 dodges, but time your skills right and you’ll take me down just the same or I’ll run away.
Heals a little?
I’m over 600 HP/S while stealthed… If you run no healing power it’s Heals a Little.. if you run Healing Power though…
To get that, you’re sacrificing Pwr, Vit, Toughness, or Precision. You can only stay stealthed for so long, even at 3s, you’re getting 1500 HP. If you have no Vit or Toughness, straight DPS is all that’s needed with Conditions limiting your ability to heal (such as Poisons and Bleeds), and if you have no Pwr or Precision, all I’d have to do is kite. And since I main as Thief, it’s made even easier for me.
You have to Sacrifice something, In this case Power/precision/toughness (i could get toughness, and I will eventually, but Its not as good as Vit on a thief because we lack Protection)
you can see my HP in the videos, I’m not lacking on HP.
And since most of my damage is from conditions it’s not a huge deal to sacrifice power/precision
When you were playing your thief, did you contribute with something else other than zerg kills?
He’s 1 person, fighting 10-30 people. Imagine if there were five of him, or hell, ten of him.
When I run a five man Thief team, the stuff we pull of is absolutely insane, and now that crossed swords won’t show up for five people, holy mother did they just hand us our cake, and allowed us to eat it as well.
Oh yea.. imagine 5 poison arrows.. oh no….. one condition clear…
I now know why you suck at playing the Thief.
Dude, you are calling everyone who doesn’t play your thief, a bad thief. Seriously stop it and provide better feedback.
Lol @ thread.
If a thief is stealthing a lot, not just P/D, they will almost always have 30 in Shadow Arts and trait for Remove Condition every 3s and Heal in Stealth. They also will most likely have Hide In Shadows (if they don’t, then great!), Blinding Powder, and SR or SS.
Step 1: Thief runs at you. Dodge.
Step 2: Crowd Control – knockdowns/immobilize/chill/cripple. Thief stealths, removes condition, heals a little. Dodge.
Step 3: Stack on the AoE. Thief stealths more, removes condition, heals. Run around.
Step 4: Dodge/Block/Drop more AoE/Kite
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 until thief is no longer around or on the ground and dying.The thief will eventually burn through all of his utility stealths and will be forced to use CnD, which doesn’t really do a lot of damage anyways (and if he’s hitting you, then he’s in range of anything you’ve got).
This is pretty much how you fight any thief, no matter the build (heck, this is how I fight D/D Eles). P/D thieves that CnD and then 1 are giving themselves the revealed debuff each time, so they are just as targettable even if they haven’t rendered. BS thieves need to land that first blow. Otherwise, they’ll run. And DD / SB or DD/PP condition thieves like me, well, you’re not going to have an easy time with me due to Death Blossom’s evade giving me an extra 2-3 dodges, but time your skills right and you’ll take me down just the same or I’ll run away.
Heals a little?
I’m over 600 HP/S while stealthed… If you run no healing power it’s Heals a Little.. if you run Healing Power though…
To get that, you’re sacrificing Pwr, Vit, Toughness, or Precision. You can only stay stealthed for so long, even at 3s, you’re getting 1500 HP. If you have no Vit or Toughness, straight DPS is all that’s needed with Conditions limiting your ability to heal (such as Poisons and Bleeds), and if you have no Pwr or Precision, all I’d have to do is kite. And since I main as Thief, it’s made even easier for me.
You have to Sacrifice something, In this case Power/precision/toughness (i could get toughness, and I will eventually, but Its not as good as Vit on a thief because we lack Protection)
you can see my HP in the videos, I’m not lacking on HP.
And since most of my damage is from conditions it’s not a huge deal to sacrifice power/precision
When you were playing your thief, did you contribute with something else other thank zerg kills?
Are you going to go about how I didn’t contribute points to the World vs World match?
Cause…It’s friday..
We had 550 to 600 points we were getting..
and we’re currently
289k total points vs 150k to the next closest team, and 145k to that group I was fighting..
So yea..Maybe I should of done more for the War effort since I think we’re going to lose grin
Yes, it’s friday, maybe you should have done something for WvW but who cares when reset is almost here no? but I don’t get where your request about stealth relies, I mean, yes you killed X of ppl in a zerg, you farmed a lot of badges and you can tell me everything you want, but I think if you’re a complaining about a mechaninc that it’s screwing with WvW then you should be actually talking about it, don’t you think?
By the way I’m not here to be condescendat with you lol, I understand why you’re so defensive thought, after reading this thread it’s kinda obvious but I’m just trying to understand your point
Because I don’t believe 1 person should be able to attack a large group of people, possibly down and kill one, and get away whenever they want..
It requires no skill to play the class.
That is unfair, it requires a little skill to do what you are doing.
There are other ways of playing p/d that require more skill.
Playing d/d spamming 2 requires little skill but there are skilful ways of playing d/d.
S/d the boring one, now that is positively tricky to play well.
Lol @ thread.
If a thief is stealthing a lot, not just P/D, they will almost always have 30 in Shadow Arts and trait for Remove Condition every 3s and Heal in Stealth. They also will most likely have Hide In Shadows (if they don’t, then great!), Blinding Powder, and SR or SS.
Step 1: Thief runs at you. Dodge.
Step 2: Crowd Control – knockdowns/immobilize/chill/cripple. Thief stealths, removes condition, heals a little. Dodge.
Step 3: Stack on the AoE. Thief stealths more, removes condition, heals. Run around.
Step 4: Dodge/Block/Drop more AoE/Kite
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 until thief is no longer around or on the ground and dying.The thief will eventually burn through all of his utility stealths and will be forced to use CnD, which doesn’t really do a lot of damage anyways (and if he’s hitting you, then he’s in range of anything you’ve got).
This is pretty much how you fight any thief, no matter the build (heck, this is how I fight D/D Eles). P/D thieves that CnD and then 1 are giving themselves the revealed debuff each time, so they are just as targettable even if they haven’t rendered. BS thieves need to land that first blow. Otherwise, they’ll run. And DD / SB or DD/PP condition thieves like me, well, you’re not going to have an easy time with me due to Death Blossom’s evade giving me an extra 2-3 dodges, but time your skills right and you’ll take me down just the same or I’ll run away.
Heals a little?
I’m over 600 HP/S while stealthed… If you run no healing power it’s Heals a Little.. if you run Healing Power though…
To get that, you’re sacrificing Pwr, Vit, Toughness, or Precision. You can only stay stealthed for so long, even at 3s, you’re getting 1500 HP. If you have no Vit or Toughness, straight DPS is all that’s needed with Conditions limiting your ability to heal (such as Poisons and Bleeds), and if you have no Pwr or Precision, all I’d have to do is kite. And since I main as Thief, it’s made even easier for me.
You have to Sacrifice something, In this case Power/precision/toughness (i could get toughness, and I will eventually, but Its not as good as Vit on a thief because we lack Protection)
you can see my HP in the videos, I’m not lacking on HP.
And since most of my damage is from conditions it’s not a huge deal to sacrifice power/precision
When you were playing your thief, did you contribute with something else other than zerg kills?
He’s 1 person, fighting 10-30 people. Imagine if there were five of him, or hell, ten of him.
When I run a five man Thief team, the stuff we pull of is absolutely insane, and now that crossed swords won’t show up for five people, holy mother did they just hand us our cake, and allowed us to eat it as well.
Oh yea.. imagine 5 poison arrows.. oh no….. one condition clear…
I now know why you suck at playing the Thief.
I know you think you are bad kitten right now, but I’m talking in the context of the OP’s play-style which is C&D on noobs and spam PA/Trops. Or are you taking what I’m saying out of context like every other e kitten on these boards? Wait… I guess I’m not surprised.
Lol @ thread.
If a thief is stealthing a lot, not just P/D, they will almost always have 30 in Shadow Arts and trait for Remove Condition every 3s and Heal in Stealth. They also will most likely have Hide In Shadows (if they don’t, then great!), Blinding Powder, and SR or SS.
Step 1: Thief runs at you. Dodge.
Step 2: Crowd Control – knockdowns/immobilize/chill/cripple. Thief stealths, removes condition, heals a little. Dodge.
Step 3: Stack on the AoE. Thief stealths more, removes condition, heals. Run around.
Step 4: Dodge/Block/Drop more AoE/Kite
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 until thief is no longer around or on the ground and dying.The thief will eventually burn through all of his utility stealths and will be forced to use CnD, which doesn’t really do a lot of damage anyways (and if he’s hitting you, then he’s in range of anything you’ve got).
This is pretty much how you fight any thief, no matter the build (heck, this is how I fight D/D Eles). P/D thieves that CnD and then 1 are giving themselves the revealed debuff each time, so they are just as targettable even if they haven’t rendered. BS thieves need to land that first blow. Otherwise, they’ll run. And DD / SB or DD/PP condition thieves like me, well, you’re not going to have an easy time with me due to Death Blossom’s evade giving me an extra 2-3 dodges, but time your skills right and you’ll take me down just the same or I’ll run away.
Heals a little?
I’m over 600 HP/S while stealthed… If you run no healing power it’s Heals a Little.. if you run Healing Power though…
To get that, you’re sacrificing Pwr, Vit, Toughness, or Precision. You can only stay stealthed for so long, even at 3s, you’re getting 1500 HP. If you have no Vit or Toughness, straight DPS is all that’s needed with Conditions limiting your ability to heal (such as Poisons and Bleeds), and if you have no Pwr or Precision, all I’d have to do is kite. And since I main as Thief, it’s made even easier for me.
You have to Sacrifice something, In this case Power/precision/toughness (i could get toughness, and I will eventually, but Its not as good as Vit on a thief because we lack Protection)
you can see my HP in the videos, I’m not lacking on HP.
And since most of my damage is from conditions it’s not a huge deal to sacrifice power/precision
When you were playing your thief, did you contribute with something else other than zerg kills?
He’s 1 person, fighting 10-30 people. Imagine if there were five of him, or hell, ten of him.
When I run a five man Thief team, the stuff we pull of is absolutely insane, and now that crossed swords won’t show up for five people, holy mother did they just hand us our cake, and allowed us to eat it as well.
An ele can fight 10-30 people, and run away too. btdubs. I don’t see anyone starting a 12 page thread on it though. And kudos for rolling thieves harassing wvw. Seriously though, how does this affect the game of WvW? It just hurts roamers who aren’t ready for war obviously. If you have a 5 main thief team, KILL a 30 people zerg. I will /sign this nerf thread.
I can kill any elementalist solo, on my Ranger. I absolutely dominate them on my Thief, and Mesmer, though could fight them for ever on my Guardian, and no one dies.
There is no way in hell an Elementalist could fight more than two people, if I was there. You’re either lying, or you really do suck at playing the Thief.
You honestly can’t see the benefit of my five man Thief team killing a Zerg, who tries for a camp, and fails because of us? You really can not see the benefit of this? Holy mother of God, take off the blinders, and see the world around you.
A five man group of Thieves can starve an entire map of its most precious resources, and take towers to boot, or even open the wall of a keep for their Zerg to come hit at their leisure. If you think that doesn’t contribute to WvW, I don’t know what to say.
(edited by jkctmc.8754)
Okay… lets take a step back errrrbody calm down… Flame wars are fun guys… Okay @Xsorus Why do you think thief needs a nerf? I believe that is your standpoint? (errr well stealth but we all see where this thread has gone.)
@Others What reasons do you have for stealth not needing some sort of nerf? I mean even the smallest type such as the reduction damage of backstab… Not by a lot… but at least giving players SOME chance to react… Or what about making it so that caltrops and poison field break stealth… As for damage breaking it no… I know that would REALLY really break the thief class… But other things… We’re all civil here right? We can come to something… My proposal to deal with some of the perks that thieves get while stealthed…. anyone or combo of them1) Anet should remove one of these perks from being stealthed
a) Condi removal for every three seconds while stealth (combined
with heals it competes with ele’s condi removal)
b) Regen while stealthed… yeah w/o healing power it isn’t all that great…
But it is still one of the little things that is causing big problems
c) 50% faster while stealthed… Seriously aside from stealth bombers when was the
last time sneaky=fast? How many sneaky fast navy seals are there? I know its
a game and all but seriously this is just a ridiculous trait that costs too little
d) stealth SHOULD break on a block… Invuln/evades yeah i’ll give that to you
but you are still hitting something when its blocked whether it be that shield/
off hand sword its basically guaranteeing a free HUGE hit to thieves when they
stay stealthed and their first attack was blocked… Not really fair to someone
that was not being a baddie/noob and could predict the attack change.
If someone blocks my shatters on my Mesmer I don’t get an immediate free
redo on the burst and no other class does when their attacks are blocked
except thieves
e) finally Caltrops and choking gas should break stealth… I don’t care how you want
to justify it, these skills do damage and therefore should suffer the revealed debuff…
If a Mesmer pops a shatter from stealth they get revealed… Why? The clones blew up
not the Mesmer they shouldn’t be revealed! But they are, same concept applies to
thieves. This would also make thieves consider things like taking the trait that drops
caltrops on a dodge… It would make them choose something either/stealth heavy or
mobility…
My 2 cents… on things that would help with thieves (erm,,, stealth) in WvW. Any one of these minor changes would prolly make a lot more people happy and the only thieves that would be ticked would be the ones that can’t adapt… Every class has had to adapt to nerfs to some of their core mechanics (generalization I know of a few specific ones.) These changes would not break the thief class in any way
The problem is, the people who want stealth for thieves nerfed will only settle with stealth being nerfed immensely without agreeing to any compromises or following up on any suggestions. They just want nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf. And don’t even know specifically what they want. They just want Anet to nerf nerf nerf. Come on guys, you can use your heads, pose a solution instead of a whine and insult.
Lol @ thread.
If a thief is stealthing a lot, not just P/D, they will almost always have 30 in Shadow Arts and trait for Remove Condition every 3s and Heal in Stealth. They also will most likely have Hide In Shadows (if they don’t, then great!), Blinding Powder, and SR or SS.
Step 1: Thief runs at you. Dodge.
Step 2: Crowd Control – knockdowns/immobilize/chill/cripple. Thief stealths, removes condition, heals a little. Dodge.
Step 3: Stack on the AoE. Thief stealths more, removes condition, heals. Run around.
Step 4: Dodge/Block/Drop more AoE/Kite
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 until thief is no longer around or on the ground and dying.The thief will eventually burn through all of his utility stealths and will be forced to use CnD, which doesn’t really do a lot of damage anyways (and if he’s hitting you, then he’s in range of anything you’ve got).
This is pretty much how you fight any thief, no matter the build (heck, this is how I fight D/D Eles). P/D thieves that CnD and then 1 are giving themselves the revealed debuff each time, so they are just as targettable even if they haven’t rendered. BS thieves need to land that first blow. Otherwise, they’ll run. And DD / SB or DD/PP condition thieves like me, well, you’re not going to have an easy time with me due to Death Blossom’s evade giving me an extra 2-3 dodges, but time your skills right and you’ll take me down just the same or I’ll run away.
Heals a little?
I’m over 600 HP/S while stealthed… If you run no healing power it’s Heals a Little.. if you run Healing Power though…
To get that, you’re sacrificing Pwr, Vit, Toughness, or Precision. You can only stay stealthed for so long, even at 3s, you’re getting 1500 HP. If you have no Vit or Toughness, straight DPS is all that’s needed with Conditions limiting your ability to heal (such as Poisons and Bleeds), and if you have no Pwr or Precision, all I’d have to do is kite. And since I main as Thief, it’s made even easier for me.
You have to Sacrifice something, In this case Power/precision/toughness (i could get toughness, and I will eventually, but Its not as good as Vit on a thief because we lack Protection)
you can see my HP in the videos, I’m not lacking on HP.
And since most of my damage is from conditions it’s not a huge deal to sacrifice power/precision
When you were playing your thief, did you contribute with something else other than zerg kills?
He’s 1 person, fighting 10-30 people. Imagine if there were five of him, or hell, ten of him.
When I run a five man Thief team, the stuff we pull of is absolutely insane, and now that crossed swords won’t show up for five people, holy mother did they just hand us our cake, and allowed us to eat it as well.
Oh yea.. imagine 5 poison arrows.. oh no….. one condition clear…
I now know why you suck at playing the Thief.
Dude, you are calling everyone who doesn’t play your thief, a bad thief. Seriously stop it and provide better feedback.
And you’re saying he isn’t contributing anything, when in fact he is, and can.
You have not provided anything yet, but to say no, no, no, no. What ideas have you given to fix the game as it stands now?
(edited by jkctmc.8754)
Okay… lets take a step back errrrbody calm down… Flame wars are fun guys… Okay @Xsorus Why do you think thief needs a nerf? I believe that is your standpoint? (errr well stealth but we all see where this thread has gone.)
@Others What reasons do you have for stealth not needing some sort of nerf? I mean even the smallest type such as the reduction damage of backstab… Not by a lot… but at least giving players SOME chance to react… Or what about making it so that caltrops and poison field break stealth… As for damage breaking it no… I know that would REALLY really break the thief class… But other things… We’re all civil here right? We can come to something… My proposal to deal with some of the perks that thieves get while stealthed…. anyone or combo of them1) Anet should remove one of these perks from being stealthed
a) Condi removal for every three seconds while stealth (combined
with heals it competes with ele’s condi removal)
b) Regen while stealthed… yeah w/o healing power it isn’t all that great…
But it is still one of the little things that is causing big problems
c) 50% faster while stealthed… Seriously aside from stealth bombers when was the
last time sneaky=fast? How many sneaky fast navy seals are there? I know its
a game and all but seriously this is just a ridiculous trait that costs too little
d) stealth SHOULD break on a block… Invuln/evades yeah i’ll give that to you
but you are still hitting something when its blocked whether it be that shield/
off hand sword its basically guaranteeing a free HUGE hit to thieves when they
stay stealthed and their first attack was blocked… Not really fair to someone
that was not being a baddie/noob and could predict the attack change.
If someone blocks my shatters on my Mesmer I don’t get an immediate free
redo on the burst and no other class does when their attacks are blocked
except thieves
e) finally Caltrops and choking gas should break stealth… I don’t care how you want
to justify it, these skills do damage and therefore should suffer the revealed debuff…
If a Mesmer pops a shatter from stealth they get revealed… Why? The clones blew up
not the Mesmer they shouldn’t be revealed! But they are, same concept applies to
thieves. This would also make thieves consider things like taking the trait that drops
caltrops on a dodge… It would make them choose something either/stealth heavy or
mobility…
My 2 cents… on things that would help with thieves (erm,,, stealth) in WvW. Any one of these minor changes would prolly make a lot more people happy and the only thieves that would be ticked would be the ones that can’t adapt… Every class has had to adapt to nerfs to some of their core mechanics (generalization I know of a few specific ones.) These changes would not break the thief class in any wayThe problem is, the people who want stealth for thieves nerfed will only settle with stealth being nerfed immensely without agreeing to any compromises or following up on any suggestions. They just want nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf. And don’t even know specifically what they want. They just want Anet to nerf nerf nerf. Come on guys, you can use your heads, pose a solution instead of a whine and insult.
Okay well I am guessing you play thief… Please as a reasonable thief player (if my assumptions are correct). Tell me which of the proposed changes you would be okay with some of them I feel should be changed no matter what are the blocking breaking stealth and the caltrops/choking gas… Other than that I am pretty amicable… If you have other ideas field them… I am not one to dismiss everything and I hope these suggestions wouldn’t be looked at and dismissed because I am a “baddy” according to some of the more ego friendly people here.
Lol @ thread.
If a thief is stealthing a lot, not just P/D, they will almost always have 30 in Shadow Arts and trait for Remove Condition every 3s and Heal in Stealth. They also will most likely have Hide In Shadows (if they don’t, then great!), Blinding Powder, and SR or SS.
Step 1: Thief runs at you. Dodge.
Step 2: Crowd Control – knockdowns/immobilize/chill/cripple. Thief stealths, removes condition, heals a little. Dodge.
Step 3: Stack on the AoE. Thief stealths more, removes condition, heals. Run around.
Step 4: Dodge/Block/Drop more AoE/Kite
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 until thief is no longer around or on the ground and dying.The thief will eventually burn through all of his utility stealths and will be forced to use CnD, which doesn’t really do a lot of damage anyways (and if he’s hitting you, then he’s in range of anything you’ve got).
This is pretty much how you fight any thief, no matter the build (heck, this is how I fight D/D Eles). P/D thieves that CnD and then 1 are giving themselves the revealed debuff each time, so they are just as targettable even if they haven’t rendered. BS thieves need to land that first blow. Otherwise, they’ll run. And DD / SB or DD/PP condition thieves like me, well, you’re not going to have an easy time with me due to Death Blossom’s evade giving me an extra 2-3 dodges, but time your skills right and you’ll take me down just the same or I’ll run away.
Heals a little?
I’m over 600 HP/S while stealthed… If you run no healing power it’s Heals a Little.. if you run Healing Power though…
To get that, you’re sacrificing Pwr, Vit, Toughness, or Precision. You can only stay stealthed for so long, even at 3s, you’re getting 1500 HP. If you have no Vit or Toughness, straight DPS is all that’s needed with Conditions limiting your ability to heal (such as Poisons and Bleeds), and if you have no Pwr or Precision, all I’d have to do is kite. And since I main as Thief, it’s made even easier for me.
You have to Sacrifice something, In this case Power/precision/toughness (i could get toughness, and I will eventually, but Its not as good as Vit on a thief because we lack Protection)
you can see my HP in the videos, I’m not lacking on HP.
And since most of my damage is from conditions it’s not a huge deal to sacrifice power/precision
When you were playing your thief, did you contribute with something else other than zerg kills?
He’s 1 person, fighting 10-30 people. Imagine if there were five of him, or hell, ten of him.
When I run a five man Thief team, the stuff we pull of is absolutely insane, and now that crossed swords won’t show up for five people, holy mother did they just hand us our cake, and allowed us to eat it as well.
An ele can fight 10-30 people, and run away too. btdubs. I don’t see anyone starting a 12 page thread on it though. And kudos for rolling thieves harassing wvw. Seriously though, how does this affect the game of WvW? It just hurts roamers who aren’t ready for war obviously. If you have a 5 main thief team, KILL a 30 people zerg. I will /sign this nerf thread.
I can kill any elementalist solo, on my Ranger. I absolutely dominate them on my Thief, and Mesmer, though could fight them for ever on my Guardian, and no one dies.
There is no way in hell a Elementalist could fight more than two people, if I was there. You’re either lying, or you really do suck at playing the Thief.
You honestly can’t see the benefit of my five man Thief team killing a Zerg, who tries for a camp, and fails because of us? You really can not see the benefit of this? Holy mother of God, take of the blinders, and see the world around you.
A five man group of Thieves can starve an entire map of its most precious resources, and take towers to boot, or even open the wall of a keep for their Zerg to come hit at their leisure. If you think that doesn’t contribute to WvW, I don’t know what to say.
Why are you so angry all the time. Since your first post, you just seem sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo freaking kitten for whatever reason. Screw stealth, take a chill pill as my advice first. Then actually face a good ele. Oh and I’ll play your card, if the ele doesn’t get away after facing a zerg and messing with them, they must REALLY SUCK with an ele. And using a camp npc for distraction isn’t really fighting a zerg head on. Show me a video or this can go on for 12 more pages bud. Oh and fyi take a chill pill if you forgot by the time you read this sentence.
Lol @ thread.
If a thief is stealthing a lot, not just P/D, they will almost always have 30 in Shadow Arts and trait for Remove Condition every 3s and Heal in Stealth. They also will most likely have Hide In Shadows (if they don’t, then great!), Blinding Powder, and SR or SS.
Step 1: Thief runs at you. Dodge.
Step 2: Crowd Control – knockdowns/immobilize/chill/cripple. Thief stealths, removes condition, heals a little. Dodge.
Step 3: Stack on the AoE. Thief stealths more, removes condition, heals. Run around.
Step 4: Dodge/Block/Drop more AoE/Kite
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 until thief is no longer around or on the ground and dying.The thief will eventually burn through all of his utility stealths and will be forced to use CnD, which doesn’t really do a lot of damage anyways (and if he’s hitting you, then he’s in range of anything you’ve got).
This is pretty much how you fight any thief, no matter the build (heck, this is how I fight D/D Eles). P/D thieves that CnD and then 1 are giving themselves the revealed debuff each time, so they are just as targettable even if they haven’t rendered. BS thieves need to land that first blow. Otherwise, they’ll run. And DD / SB or DD/PP condition thieves like me, well, you’re not going to have an easy time with me due to Death Blossom’s evade giving me an extra 2-3 dodges, but time your skills right and you’ll take me down just the same or I’ll run away.
Heals a little?
I’m over 600 HP/S while stealthed… If you run no healing power it’s Heals a Little.. if you run Healing Power though…
To get that, you’re sacrificing Pwr, Vit, Toughness, or Precision. You can only stay stealthed for so long, even at 3s, you’re getting 1500 HP. If you have no Vit or Toughness, straight DPS is all that’s needed with Conditions limiting your ability to heal (such as Poisons and Bleeds), and if you have no Pwr or Precision, all I’d have to do is kite. And since I main as Thief, it’s made even easier for me.
You have to Sacrifice something, In this case Power/precision/toughness (i could get toughness, and I will eventually, but Its not as good as Vit on a thief because we lack Protection)
you can see my HP in the videos, I’m not lacking on HP.
And since most of my damage is from conditions it’s not a huge deal to sacrifice power/precision
When you were playing your thief, did you contribute with something else other than zerg kills?
He’s 1 person, fighting 10-30 people. Imagine if there were five of him, or hell, ten of him.
When I run a five man Thief team, the stuff we pull of is absolutely insane, and now that crossed swords won’t show up for five people, holy mother did they just hand us our cake, and allowed us to eat it as well.
An ele can fight 10-30 people, and run away too. btdubs. I don’t see anyone starting a 12 page thread on it though. And kudos for rolling thieves harassing wvw. Seriously though, how does this affect the game of WvW? It just hurts roamers who aren’t ready for war obviously. If you have a 5 main thief team, KILL a 30 people zerg. I will /sign this nerf thread.
I can kill any elementalist solo, on my Ranger. I absolutely dominate them on my Thief, and Mesmer, though could fight them for ever on my Guardian, and no one dies.
There is no way in hell a Elementalist could fight more than two people, if I was there. You’re either lying, or you really do suck at playing the Thief.
You honestly can’t see the benefit of my five man Thief team killing a Zerg, who tries for a camp, and fails because of us? You really can not see the benefit of this? Holy mother of God, take of the blinders, and see the world around you.
A five man group of Thieves can starve an entire map of its most precious resources, and take towers to boot, or even open the wall of a keep for their Zerg to come hit at their leisure. If you think that doesn’t contribute to WvW, I don’t know what to say.
5 Thieves is cool and all but it’s not needed and less powerful than many many other mixes. Having a couple thieves in a 5 man is great for refuge and zerg juking. I have two other thieves and I ran my thief with for a long time. We recently did 2 thieves 1 Mesmer which outperforms 3 thieves. As long as you are organised having more profs is better but yes, you still need a couple thieves for burst and/or zerg juking.
Okay well I am guessing you play thief… Please as a reasonable thief player (if my assumptions are correct). Tell me which of the proposed changes you would be okay with some of them I feel should be changed no matter what are the blocking breaking stealth and the caltrops/choking gas… Other than that I am pretty amicable… If you have other ideas field them… I am not one to dismiss everything and I hope these suggestions wouldn’t be looked at and dismissed because I am a “baddy” according to some of the more ego friendly people here.
No I don’t play thief mainly. I have all classes at lvl80 and play mostly with Guard/Mes/Necro. I just can’t help but be bothered by some really incompetent players in this thread who are either sarcastic or really mad. I’ve made suggestions, but no agreement or disagreement, it’s just whine whine and more whine. Frankly, I just want a mod to close it for becoming not constructive.
And my suggestions are, as something to satisfy these crybabies.
1) Inc time on revealed debuff to maybe 5 seconds
2) Make all non-stealth skills/utilities cause revealed debuff
3) Make stealth attacks weaker/you take more damage in stealth
And also, I believe GOOD theives tell thier fellow mates how to take them on. I believe BAD thieves are the ones who think they are OP and cannot be taken down no matter what cause they are so good. WHich most of the whiners are doing. They provide no suggestions on how to take on thieves—-it’s just impossible, no mattter what, and it has to be in the perfect scenario or your argument is invalid.
(edited by ArcTheFallen.7682)
Why are you so angry all the time. Since your first post, you just seem sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo freaking kitten for whatever reason. Screw stealth, take a chill pill as my advice first. Then actually face a good ele. Oh and I’ll play your card, if the ele doesn’t get away after facing a zerg and messing with them, they must REALLY SUCK with an ele. And using a camp npc for distraction isn’t really fighting a zerg head on. Show me a video or this can go on for 12 more pages bud. Oh and fyi take a chill pill if you forgot by the time you read this sentence.
hahahahahah
Now you’re playing the umad bro card? Wow!!!
I guess all the elementalists I fight are bad, and all the ones you fight are good. I get your line of arguments now, I really do.
Lol @ thread.
If a thief is stealthing a lot, not just P/D, they will almost always have 30 in Shadow Arts and trait for Remove Condition every 3s and Heal in Stealth. They also will most likely have Hide In Shadows (if they don’t, then great!), Blinding Powder, and SR or SS.
Step 1: Thief runs at you. Dodge.
Step 2: Crowd Control – knockdowns/immobilize/chill/cripple. Thief stealths, removes condition, heals a little. Dodge.
Step 3: Stack on the AoE. Thief stealths more, removes condition, heals. Run around.
Step 4: Dodge/Block/Drop more AoE/Kite
Step 5: Repeat Step 2 until thief is no longer around or on the ground and dying.The thief will eventually burn through all of his utility stealths and will be forced to use CnD, which doesn’t really do a lot of damage anyways (and if he’s hitting you, then he’s in range of anything you’ve got).
This is pretty much how you fight any thief, no matter the build (heck, this is how I fight D/D Eles). P/D thieves that CnD and then 1 are giving themselves the revealed debuff each time, so they are just as targettable even if they haven’t rendered. BS thieves need to land that first blow. Otherwise, they’ll run. And DD / SB or DD/PP condition thieves like me, well, you’re not going to have an easy time with me due to Death Blossom’s evade giving me an extra 2-3 dodges, but time your skills right and you’ll take me down just the same or I’ll run away.
Heals a little?
I’m over 600 HP/S while stealthed… If you run no healing power it’s Heals a Little.. if you run Healing Power though…
To get that, you’re sacrificing Pwr, Vit, Toughness, or Precision. You can only stay stealthed for so long, even at 3s, you’re getting 1500 HP. If you have no Vit or Toughness, straight DPS is all that’s needed with Conditions limiting your ability to heal (such as Poisons and Bleeds), and if you have no Pwr or Precision, all I’d have to do is kite. And since I main as Thief, it’s made even easier for me.
You have to Sacrifice something, In this case Power/precision/toughness (i could get toughness, and I will eventually, but Its not as good as Vit on a thief because we lack Protection)
you can see my HP in the videos, I’m not lacking on HP.
And since most of my damage is from conditions it’s not a huge deal to sacrifice power/precision
When you were playing your thief, did you contribute with something else other than zerg kills?
He’s 1 person, fighting 10-30 people. Imagine if there were five of him, or hell, ten of him.
When I run a five man Thief team, the stuff we pull of is absolutely insane, and now that crossed swords won’t show up for five people, holy mother did they just hand us our cake, and allowed us to eat it as well.
An ele can fight 10-30 people, and run away too. btdubs. I don’t see anyone starting a 12 page thread on it though. And kudos for rolling thieves harassing wvw. Seriously though, how does this affect the game of WvW? It just hurts roamers who aren’t ready for war obviously. If you have a 5 main thief team, KILL a 30 people zerg. I will /sign this nerf thread.
I can kill any elementalist solo, on my Ranger. I absolutely dominate them on my Thief, and Mesmer, though could fight them for ever on my Guardian, and no one dies.
There is no way in hell a Elementalist could fight more than two people, if I was there. You’re either lying, or you really do suck at playing the Thief.
You honestly can’t see the benefit of my five man Thief team killing a Zerg, who tries for a camp, and fails because of us? You really can not see the benefit of this? Holy mother of God, take of the blinders, and see the world around you.
A five man group of Thieves can starve an entire map of its most precious resources, and take towers to boot, or even open the wall of a keep for their Zerg to come hit at their leisure. If you think that doesn’t contribute to WvW, I don’t know what to say.
5 Thieves is cool and all but it’s not needed and less powerful than many many other mixes. Having a couple thieves in a 5 man is great for refuge and zerg juking. I have two other thieves and I ran my thief with for a long time. We recently did 2 thieves 1 Mesmer which outperforms 3 thieves. As long as you are organised having more profs is better but yes, you still need a couple thieves for burst and/or zerg juking.
You’re correct. Anytime you can pick up a single Mesmer, it strengthens the team ten-fold.
1) Anet should remove one of these perks from being stealthed
a) Condi removal for every three seconds while stealth (combined
with heals it competes with ele’s condi removal)
b) Regen while stealthed… yeah w/o healing power it isn’t all that great…
But it is still one of the little things that is causing big problems
c) 50% faster while stealthed… Seriously aside from stealth bombers when was the
last time sneaky=fast? How many sneaky fast navy seals are there? I know its
a game and all but seriously this is just a ridiculous trait that costs too little
d) stealth SHOULD break on a block… Invuln/evades yeah i’ll give that to you
but you are still hitting something when its blocked whether it be that shield/
off hand sword its basically guaranteeing a free HUGE hit to thieves when they
stay stealthed and their first attack was blocked… Not really fair to someone
that was not being a baddie/noob and could predict the attack change.
If someone blocks my shatters on my Mesmer I don’t get an immediate free
redo on the burst and no other class does when their attacks are blocked
except thieves
e) finally Caltrops and choking gas should break stealth… I don’t care how you want
to justify it, these skills do damage and therefore should suffer the revealed debuff…
If a Mesmer pops a shatter from stealth they get revealed… Why? The clones blew up
not the Mesmer they shouldn’t be revealed! But they are, same concept applies to
thieves. This would also make thieves consider things like taking the trait that drops
caltrops on a dodge… It would make them choose something either/stealth heavy or
mobility…
My 2 cents… on things that would help with thieves (erm,,, stealth) in WvW. Any one of these minor changes would prolly make a lot more people happy and the only thieves that would be ticked would be the ones that can’t adapt… Every class has had to adapt to nerfs to some of their core mechanics (generalization I know of a few specific ones.) These changes would not break the thief class in any way
D and e fine.
A, b and c are traits. You can’t take them all regen is a 30 pt trait. This isn’t free stealth goodies, the condi removal possibly could take an internal cd though.
Okay well I am guessing you play thief… Please as a reasonable thief player (if my assumptions are correct). Tell me which of the proposed changes you would be okay with some of them I feel should be changed no matter what are the blocking breaking stealth and the caltrops/choking gas… Other than that I am pretty amicable… If you have other ideas field them… I am not one to dismiss everything and I hope these suggestions wouldn’t be looked at and dismissed because I am a “baddy” according to some of the more ego friendly people here.
I’d be fine with those changes as well. Any block or immunity that you whiff on should break stealth. Now there is no punishment unless you have a poison or auto crit buff. It would only add to the skillcap of thieves.
Poison and utility trops breaking stealth on first dmg I’m fine with too. Those are all reasonable changes.
Okay well I am guessing you play thief… Please as a reasonable thief player (if my assumptions are correct). Tell me which of the proposed changes you would be okay with some of them I feel should be changed no matter what are the blocking breaking stealth and the caltrops/choking gas… Other than that I am pretty amicable… If you have other ideas field them… I am not one to dismiss everything and I hope these suggestions wouldn’t be looked at and dismissed because I am a “baddy” according to some of the more ego friendly people here.
No I don’t play thief mainly. I have all classes at lvl80 and play mostly with Guard/Mes/Necro. I just can’t help but be bothered by some really incompetent players in this thread who are either sarcastic or really mad. I’ve made suggestions, but no agreement or disagreement, it’s just whine whine and more whine. Frankly, I just want a mod to close it for becoming not constructive.
That’s the cards you’re playing. You’re doing everything in your power to make the thread unconstructive, so you can go cry to the mods to close it. Wow you really should take a look at yourself now.
I’ve said repeatedly I disagree with Xsorus on nerfing the Thief, but I’ll be kitten if I’ll sit back and watch you, and others downplay the strength of the Thief to make your points. There is nothing I dislike more, than people who will lie to get ahead in life, and this makes gaming no exception.
I even pleaded with you to quit the nonsense you’ve been spewing, and try to convince Xsorus that getting buffs for other classes like the Ranger, Engineer, and Necromancer is a better course of action. But you’re more inclined to throw around the l2p, or umad nonsense because you can’t construct a reasonable argument.
1) Anet should remove one of these perks from being stealthed
a) Condi removal for every three seconds while stealth (combined
with heals it competes with ele’s condi removal)
b) Regen while stealthed… yeah w/o healing power it isn’t all that great…
But it is still one of the little things that is causing big problems
c) 50% faster while stealthed… Seriously aside from stealth bombers when was the
last time sneaky=fast? How many sneaky fast navy seals are there? I know its
a game and all but seriously this is just a ridiculous trait that costs too little
d) stealth SHOULD break on a block… Invuln/evades yeah i’ll give that to you
but you are still hitting something when its blocked whether it be that shield/
off hand sword its basically guaranteeing a free HUGE hit to thieves when they
stay stealthed and their first attack was blocked… Not really fair to someone
that was not being a baddie/noob and could predict the attack change.
If someone blocks my shatters on my Mesmer I don’t get an immediate free
redo on the burst and no other class does when their attacks are blocked
except thieves
e) finally Caltrops and choking gas should break stealth… I don’t care how you want
to justify it, these skills do damage and therefore should suffer the revealed debuff…
If a Mesmer pops a shatter from stealth they get revealed… Why? The clones blew up
not the Mesmer they shouldn’t be revealed! But they are, same concept applies to
thieves. This would also make thieves consider things like taking the trait that drops
caltrops on a dodge… It would make them choose something either/stealth heavy or
mobility…
My 2 cents… on things that would help with thieves (erm,,, stealth) in WvW. Any one of these minor changes would prolly make a lot more people happy and the only thieves that would be ticked would be the ones that can’t adapt… Every class has had to adapt to nerfs to some of their core mechanics (generalization I know of a few specific ones.) These changes would not break the thief class in any wayD and e fine.
A, b and c are traits. You can’t take them all regen is a 30 pt trait. This isn’t free stealth goodies, the condi removal possibly could take an internal cd though.
Keep in mind when I refer to caltrops I refer to the skill and the trait where thy drop on dodge…. I know A,b,c are traits and they can’t all get them at once but they can get a combo at once… but thank you for your response. and Hopefully others are as constructive.
1) Anet should remove one of these perks from being stealthed
a) Condi removal for every three seconds while stealth (combined
with heals it competes with ele’s condi removal)
b) Regen while stealthed… yeah w/o healing power it isn’t all that great…
But it is still one of the little things that is causing big problems
c) 50% faster while stealthed… Seriously aside from stealth bombers when was the
last time sneaky=fast? How many sneaky fast navy seals are there? I know its
a game and all but seriously this is just a ridiculous trait that costs too little
d) stealth SHOULD break on a block… Invuln/evades yeah i’ll give that to you
but you are still hitting something when its blocked whether it be that shield/
off hand sword its basically guaranteeing a free HUGE hit to thieves when they
stay stealthed and their first attack was blocked… Not really fair to someone
that was not being a baddie/noob and could predict the attack change.
If someone blocks my shatters on my Mesmer I don’t get an immediate free
redo on the burst and no other class does when their attacks are blocked
except thieves
e) finally Caltrops and choking gas should break stealth… I don’t care how you want
to justify it, these skills do damage and therefore should suffer the revealed debuff…
If a Mesmer pops a shatter from stealth they get revealed… Why? The clones blew up
not the Mesmer they shouldn’t be revealed! But they are, same concept applies to
thieves. This would also make thieves consider things like taking the trait that drops
caltrops on a dodge… It would make them choose something either/stealth heavy or
mobility…
My 2 cents… on things that would help with thieves (erm,,, stealth) in WvW. Any one of these minor changes would prolly make a lot more people happy and the only thieves that would be ticked would be the ones that can’t adapt… Every class has had to adapt to nerfs to some of their core mechanics (generalization I know of a few specific ones.) These changes would not break the thief class in any wayD and e fine.
A, b and c are traits. You can’t take them all regen is a 30 pt trait. This isn’t free stealth goodies, the condi removal possibly could take an internal cd though.
I’m not sure I would be on board with an internal cd on condition removal. One of the benefits to conditions, and their major strengths is that you can reapply them without any penalty.
Okay well I am guessing you play thief… Please as a reasonable thief player (if my assumptions are correct). Tell me which of the proposed changes you would be okay with some of them I feel should be changed no matter what are the blocking breaking stealth and the caltrops/choking gas… Other than that I am pretty amicable… If you have other ideas field them… I am not one to dismiss everything and I hope these suggestions wouldn’t be looked at and dismissed because I am a “baddy” according to some of the more ego friendly people here.
I’d be fine with those changes as well. Any block or immunity that you whiff on should break stealth. Now there is no punishment unless you have a poison or auto crit buff. It would only add to the skillcap of thieves.
Poison and utility trops breaking stealth on first dmg I’m fine with too. Those are all reasonable changes.
Okay so some reasonable changes that some of the players here have agreed to, stealth breaking if an attack is blocked/invulned (Stiv). Choking gas and caltrops breaking stealth… These wouldn’t really touch the damage of the thief but it would make the instagibbing slightly harder and maybe tick off bad thieves so much that they leave for another class (happens to all classes when they get nerfed)
Okay well I am guessing you play thief… Please as a reasonable thief player (if my assumptions are correct). Tell me which of the proposed changes you would be okay with some of them I feel should be changed no matter what are the blocking breaking stealth and the caltrops/choking gas… Other than that I am pretty amicable… If you have other ideas field them… I am not one to dismiss everything and I hope these suggestions wouldn’t be looked at and dismissed because I am a “baddy” according to some of the more ego friendly people here.
No I don’t play thief mainly. I have all classes at lvl80 and play mostly with Guard/Mes/Necro. I just can’t help but be bothered by some really incompetent players in this thread who are either sarcastic or really mad. I’ve made suggestions, but no agreement or disagreement, it’s just whine whine and more whine. Frankly, I just want a mod to close it for becoming not constructive.
That’s the cards you’re playing. You’re doing everything in your power to make the thread unconstructive, so you can go cry to the mods to close it. Wow you really should take a look at yourself now.
I’ve said repeatedly I disagree with Xsorus on nerfing the Thief, but I’ll be kitten if I’ll sit back and watch you, and others downplay the strength of the Thief to make your points. There is nothing I dislike more, than people who will lie to get ahead in life, and this makes gaming no exception.
I even pleaded with you to quit the nonsense you’ve been spewing, and try to convince Xsorus that getting buffs for other classes like the Ranger, Engineer, and Necromancer is a better course of action. But you’re more inclined to throw around the l2p, or umad nonsense because you can’t construct a reasonable argument.
My only quarrel with you is that you always seem mad, and you don’t make your points clear. You throw insults like no tomorrow and you don’t seem to try to understand my frustration with various things. My arguments are directed towards differnt people because they all have different views. You took my stance against Xsorus and made it into your own battle when it didn’t even direct attention towards you. That’s what pushes my buttons.
And like before, I agree with your method of improvement. I am not trying to downplay the thief. I am just trying to bring it to the level where it really is. It is not a God Tier. But it’s a lot better than most classes.
What a lot of people have showed interest in is nerfing stealth, which I do not agree with because for once we have a game that almost does stealth justice. If we revert back to a transparency/fake stealth or remove it totally, it would just make me sad as to how adventurous gw2 seems to be in the combat design. I don’t mind buffing other classes, or modding other areas to make stealth less potent. But I still want a thief to be able to disappear when he stealhes. We can remove CnD, lower stealth attacks, inc reveal debuff, remove infiltraitor’s arrow, etc. But the mechanic works well and it’s refreshing to see in a game for once.
(edited by ArcTheFallen.7682)
1) Anet should remove one of these perks from being stealthed
a) Condi removal for every three seconds while stealth (combined
with heals it competes with ele’s condi removal)
b) Regen while stealthed… yeah w/o healing power it isn’t all that great…
But it is still one of the little things that is causing big problems
c) 50% faster while stealthed… Seriously aside from stealth bombers when was the
last time sneaky=fast? How many sneaky fast navy seals are there? I know its
a game and all but seriously this is just a ridiculous trait that costs too little
d) stealth SHOULD break on a block… Invuln/evades yeah i’ll give that to you
but you are still hitting something when its blocked whether it be that shield/
off hand sword its basically guaranteeing a free HUGE hit to thieves when they
stay stealthed and their first attack was blocked… Not really fair to someone
that was not being a baddie/noob and could predict the attack change.
If someone blocks my shatters on my Mesmer I don’t get an immediate free
redo on the burst and no other class does when their attacks are blocked
except thieves
e) finally Caltrops and choking gas should break stealth… I don’t care how you want
to justify it, these skills do damage and therefore should suffer the revealed debuff…
If a Mesmer pops a shatter from stealth they get revealed… Why? The clones blew up
not the Mesmer they shouldn’t be revealed! But they are, same concept applies to
thieves. This would also make thieves consider things like taking the trait that drops
caltrops on a dodge… It would make them choose something either/stealth heavy or
mobility…
My 2 cents… on things that would help with thieves (erm,,, stealth) in WvW. Any one of these minor changes would prolly make a lot more people happy and the only thieves that would be ticked would be the ones that can’t adapt… Every class has had to adapt to nerfs to some of their core mechanics (generalization I know of a few specific ones.) These changes would not break the thief class in any wayD and e fine.
A, b and c are traits. You can’t take them all regen is a 30 pt trait. This isn’t free stealth goodies, the condi removal possibly could take an internal cd though.I’m not sure I would be on board with an internal cd on condition removal. One of the benefits to conditions, and their major strengths is that you can reapply them without any penalty.
Keep in mind that even with the internal c/d on that you would still have pretty good condi removal compared to say mesmers (who get none unless they trait or use utilities on obscenely long cds) but as I said any one or combo of those should be reasonable.
1) Anet should remove one of these perks from being stealthed
a) Condi removal for every three seconds while stealth (combined
with heals it competes with ele’s condi removal)
b) Regen while stealthed… yeah w/o healing power it isn’t all that great…
But it is still one of the little things that is causing big problems
c) 50% faster while stealthed… Seriously aside from stealth bombers when was the
last time sneaky=fast? How many sneaky fast navy seals are there? I know its
a game and all but seriously this is just a ridiculous trait that costs too little
d) stealth SHOULD break on a block… Invuln/evades yeah i’ll give that to you
but you are still hitting something when its blocked whether it be that shield/
off hand sword its basically guaranteeing a free HUGE hit to thieves when they
stay stealthed and their first attack was blocked… Not really fair to someone
that was not being a baddie/noob and could predict the attack change.
If someone blocks my shatters on my Mesmer I don’t get an immediate free
redo on the burst and no other class does when their attacks are blocked
except thieves
e) finally Caltrops and choking gas should break stealth… I don’t care how you want
to justify it, these skills do damage and therefore should suffer the revealed debuff…
If a Mesmer pops a shatter from stealth they get revealed… Why? The clones blew up
not the Mesmer they shouldn’t be revealed! But they are, same concept applies to
thieves. This would also make thieves consider things like taking the trait that drops
caltrops on a dodge… It would make them choose something either/stealth heavy or
mobility…
My 2 cents… on things that would help with thieves (erm,,, stealth) in WvW. Any one of these minor changes would prolly make a lot more people happy and the only thieves that would be ticked would be the ones that can’t adapt… Every class has had to adapt to nerfs to some of their core mechanics (generalization I know of a few specific ones.) These changes would not break the thief class in any wayD and e fine.
A, b and c are traits. You can’t take them all regen is a 30 pt trait. This isn’t free stealth goodies, the condi removal possibly could take an internal cd though.I’m not sure I would be on board with an internal cd on condition removal. One of the benefits to conditions, and their major strengths is that you can reapply them without any penalty.
Keep in mind that even with the internal c/d on that you would still have pretty good condi removal compared to say mesmers (who get none unless they trait or use utilities on obscenely long cds) but as I said any one or combo of those should be reasonable.
I think the change would pigeon hole all Thieves into taking Hide in Shadows, unlike my build performs better with Signet of Malice. I would rather see the Mesmer, and other classes get more reliable condition removals instead.
1) Anet should remove one of these perks from being stealthed
a) Condi removal for every three seconds while stealth (combined
with heals it competes with ele’s condi removal)
b) Regen while stealthed… yeah w/o healing power it isn’t all that great…
But it is still one of the little things that is causing big problems
c) 50% faster while stealthed… Seriously aside from stealth bombers when was the
last time sneaky=fast? How many sneaky fast navy seals are there? I know its
a game and all but seriously this is just a ridiculous trait that costs too little
d) stealth SHOULD break on a block… Invuln/evades yeah i’ll give that to you
but you are still hitting something when its blocked whether it be that shield/
off hand sword its basically guaranteeing a free HUGE hit to thieves when they
stay stealthed and their first attack was blocked… Not really fair to someone
that was not being a baddie/noob and could predict the attack change.
If someone blocks my shatters on my Mesmer I don’t get an immediate free
redo on the burst and no other class does when their attacks are blocked
except thieves
e) finally Caltrops and choking gas should break stealth… I don’t care how you want
to justify it, these skills do damage and therefore should suffer the revealed debuff…
If a Mesmer pops a shatter from stealth they get revealed… Why? The clones blew up
not the Mesmer they shouldn’t be revealed! But they are, same concept applies to
thieves. This would also make thieves consider things like taking the trait that drops
caltrops on a dodge… It would make them choose something either/stealth heavy or
mobility…
My 2 cents… on things that would help with thieves (erm,,, stealth) in WvW. Any one of these minor changes would prolly make a lot more people happy and the only thieves that would be ticked would be the ones that can’t adapt… Every class has had to adapt to nerfs to some of their core mechanics (generalization I know of a few specific ones.) These changes would not break the thief class in any wayD and e fine.
A, b and c are traits. You can’t take them all regen is a 30 pt trait. This isn’t free stealth goodies, the condi removal possibly could take an internal cd though.I’m not sure I would be on board with an internal cd on condition removal. One of the benefits to conditions, and their major strengths is that you can reapply them without any penalty.
Keep in mind that even with the internal c/d on that you would still have pretty good condi removal compared to say mesmers (who get none unless they trait or use utilities on obscenely long cds) but as I said any one or combo of those should be reasonable.
Mesmers have work around. Food that clears con 100% on 15sec reflect heal. Generosity on GS and newly buffed x/Torch traited for CD reduction and con removal. Together with just… being a Mesmer… I hardly notice conditions.
1) Anet should remove one of these perks from being stealthed
a) Condi removal for every three seconds while stealth (combined
with heals it competes with ele’s condi removal)
b) Regen while stealthed… yeah w/o healing power it isn’t all that great…
But it is still one of the little things that is causing big problems
c) 50% faster while stealthed… Seriously aside from stealth bombers when was the
last time sneaky=fast? How many sneaky fast navy seals are there? I know its
a game and all but seriously this is just a ridiculous trait that costs too little
d) stealth SHOULD break on a block… Invuln/evades yeah i’ll give that to you
but you are still hitting something when its blocked whether it be that shield/
off hand sword its basically guaranteeing a free HUGE hit to thieves when they
stay stealthed and their first attack was blocked… Not really fair to someone
that was not being a baddie/noob and could predict the attack change.
If someone blocks my shatters on my Mesmer I don’t get an immediate free
redo on the burst and no other class does when their attacks are blocked
except thieves
e) finally Caltrops and choking gas should break stealth… I don’t care how you want
to justify it, these skills do damage and therefore should suffer the revealed debuff…
If a Mesmer pops a shatter from stealth they get revealed… Why? The clones blew up
not the Mesmer they shouldn’t be revealed! But they are, same concept applies to
thieves. This would also make thieves consider things like taking the trait that drops
caltrops on a dodge… It would make them choose something either/stealth heavy or
mobility…
My 2 cents… on things that would help with thieves (erm,,, stealth) in WvW. Any one of these minor changes would prolly make a lot more people happy and the only thieves that would be ticked would be the ones that can’t adapt… Every class has had to adapt to nerfs to some of their core mechanics (generalization I know of a few specific ones.) These changes would not break the thief class in any wayD and e fine.
A, b and c are traits. You can’t take them all regen is a 30 pt trait. This isn’t free stealth goodies, the condi removal possibly could take an internal cd though.I’m not sure I would be on board with an internal cd on condition removal. One of the benefits to conditions, and their major strengths is that you can reapply them without any penalty.
Keep in mind that even with the internal c/d on that you would still have pretty good condi removal compared to say mesmers (who get none unless they trait or use utilities on obscenely long cds) but as I said any one or combo of those should be reasonable.
I think the change would pigeon hole all Thieves into taking Hide in Shadows, unlike my build performs better with Signet of Malice. I would rather see the Mesmer, and other classes get more reliable condition removals instead.
This is where the give and take comes in… Now someone suggested an internal cd on that trait which I think is good… If they made mesmers have more ability to remove condi’s I’d absolutely love that but I really don’t see it happening.. Here is one of the situations where you have to think about just how good you have it when it comes to conditions (warriors are in this boat too and engi’s kinda). The gods when it comes to condi removal are guards, eles, and rangers… But thieves are right behind them currently.
Edit: Many professions are pigeon holed currently into one heal.. No mesmers use mirror really and mantras only if we are traited to have some bonus with them… Other than that we use ether feast… always.
1) Anet should remove one of these perks from being stealthed
a) Condi removal for every three seconds while stealth (combined
with heals it competes with ele’s condi removal)
b) Regen while stealthed… yeah w/o healing power it isn’t all that great…
But it is still one of the little things that is causing big problems
c) 50% faster while stealthed… Seriously aside from stealth bombers when was the
last time sneaky=fast? How many sneaky fast navy seals are there? I know its
a game and all but seriously this is just a ridiculous trait that costs too little
d) stealth SHOULD break on a block… Invuln/evades yeah i’ll give that to you
but you are still hitting something when its blocked whether it be that shield/
off hand sword its basically guaranteeing a free HUGE hit to thieves when they
stay stealthed and their first attack was blocked… Not really fair to someone
that was not being a baddie/noob and could predict the attack change.
If someone blocks my shatters on my Mesmer I don’t get an immediate free
redo on the burst and no other class does when their attacks are blocked
except thieves
e) finally Caltrops and choking gas should break stealth… I don’t care how you want
to justify it, these skills do damage and therefore should suffer the revealed debuff…
If a Mesmer pops a shatter from stealth they get revealed… Why? The clones blew up
not the Mesmer they shouldn’t be revealed! But they are, same concept applies to
thieves. This would also make thieves consider things like taking the trait that drops
caltrops on a dodge… It would make them choose something either/stealth heavy or
mobility…
My 2 cents… on things that would help with thieves (erm,,, stealth) in WvW. Any one of these minor changes would prolly make a lot more people happy and the only thieves that would be ticked would be the ones that can’t adapt… Every class has had to adapt to nerfs to some of their core mechanics (generalization I know of a few specific ones.) These changes would not break the thief class in any wayD and e fine.
A, b and c are traits. You can’t take them all regen is a 30 pt trait. This isn’t free stealth goodies, the condi removal possibly could take an internal cd though.I’m not sure I would be on board with an internal cd on condition removal. One of the benefits to conditions, and their major strengths is that you can reapply them without any penalty.
Keep in mind that even with the internal c/d on that you would still have pretty good condi removal compared to say mesmers (who get none unless they trait or use utilities on obscenely long cds) but as I said any one or combo of those should be reasonable.
Mesmers have work around. Food that clears con 100% on 15sec reflect heal. Generosity on GS and newly buffed x/Torch traited for CD reduction and con removal. Together with just… being a Mesmer… I hardly notice conditions.
Oh they are still there… but the thing that irks me about it however I do like the torch for condi removal but it doesn’t remove all conditions. other classes just get it built into their heals for the most part… except I think engi’s and maybe necros not sure on that one…
Okay well I am guessing you play thief… Please as a reasonable thief player (if my assumptions are correct). Tell me which of the proposed changes you would be okay with some of them I feel should be changed no matter what are the blocking breaking stealth and the caltrops/choking gas… Other than that I am pretty amicable… If you have other ideas field them… I am not one to dismiss everything and I hope these suggestions wouldn’t be looked at and dismissed because I am a “baddy” according to some of the more ego friendly people here.
No I don’t play thief mainly. I have all classes at lvl80 and play mostly with Guard/Mes/Necro. I just can’t help but be bothered by some really incompetent players in this thread who are either sarcastic or really mad. I’ve made suggestions, but no agreement or disagreement, it’s just whine whine and more whine. Frankly, I just want a mod to close it for becoming not constructive.
That’s the cards you’re playing. You’re doing everything in your power to make the thread unconstructive, so you can go cry to the mods to close it. Wow you really should take a look at yourself now.
I’ve said repeatedly I disagree with Xsorus on nerfing the Thief, but I’ll be kitten if I’ll sit back and watch you, and others downplay the strength of the Thief to make your points. There is nothing I dislike more, than people who will lie to get ahead in life, and this makes gaming no exception.
I even pleaded with you to quit the nonsense you’ve been spewing, and try to convince Xsorus that getting buffs for other classes like the Ranger, Engineer, and Necromancer is a better course of action. But you’re more inclined to throw around the l2p, or umad nonsense because you can’t construct a reasonable argument.
My only quarrel with you is that you always seem mad, and you don’t make your points clear. You throw insults like no tomorrow and you don’t seem to try to understand my frustration with various things. My arguments are directed towards differnt people because they all have different views. You took my stance against Xsorus and made it into your own battle when it didn’t even direct attention towards you. That’s what pushes my buttons.
And like before, I agree with your method of improvement. I am not trying to downplay the thief. I am just trying to bring it to the level where it really is. It is not a God Tier. But it’s a lot better than most classes.
What a lot of people have showed interest in is nerfing stealth, which I do not agree with because for once we have a game that almost does stealth justice. If we revert back to a transparency/fake stealth or remove it totally, it would just make me sad as to how adventurous gw2 seems to be in the combat design. I don’t mind buffing other classes, or modding other areas to make stealth less potent. But I still want a thief to be able to disappear when he stealhes. We can remove CnD, lower stealth attacks, inc reveal debuff, remove infiltraitor’s arrow, etc. But the mechanic works well and it’s refreshing to see in a game for once.
There you go playing the umad bro card again. Do you know how silly that is? Words generally convey no emotions, and those emotions are generally applied by the reader, rather than the writer, unless the writer is a professional, and knows how to play on the readers emotions. If you’re seeing anger, maybe you’re the one having the issue?
As discussed with another poster, and I agree with him, at this point in the games timeline we should be balancing classes with themselves. First by fixing traits, and weapon choices so that everything is viable to certain builds, and nothing is worthless. Start with classes who have the greatest issues, like the Ranger, Necromancer, and Engineer, and move on to the other classes, yes even the Thief.
For example the Thief P/P is rather worthless, and needs a complete revamp.
1) Anet should remove one of these perks from being stealthed
a) Condi removal for every three seconds while stealth (combined
with heals it competes with ele’s condi removal)
b) Regen while stealthed… yeah w/o healing power it isn’t all that great…
But it is still one of the little things that is causing big problems
c) 50% faster while stealthed… Seriously aside from stealth bombers when was the
last time sneaky=fast? How many sneaky fast navy seals are there? I know its
a game and all but seriously this is just a ridiculous trait that costs too little
d) stealth SHOULD break on a block… Invuln/evades yeah i’ll give that to you
but you are still hitting something when its blocked whether it be that shield/
off hand sword its basically guaranteeing a free HUGE hit to thieves when they
stay stealthed and their first attack was blocked… Not really fair to someone
that was not being a baddie/noob and could predict the attack change.
If someone blocks my shatters on my Mesmer I don’t get an immediate free
redo on the burst and no other class does when their attacks are blocked
except thieves
e) finally Caltrops and choking gas should break stealth… I don’t care how you want
to justify it, these skills do damage and therefore should suffer the revealed debuff…
If a Mesmer pops a shatter from stealth they get revealed… Why? The clones blew up
not the Mesmer they shouldn’t be revealed! But they are, same concept applies to
thieves. This would also make thieves consider things like taking the trait that drops
caltrops on a dodge… It would make them choose something either/stealth heavy or
mobility…
My 2 cents… on things that would help with thieves (erm,,, stealth) in WvW. Any one of these minor changes would prolly make a lot more people happy and the only thieves that would be ticked would be the ones that can’t adapt… Every class has had to adapt to nerfs to some of their core mechanics (generalization I know of a few specific ones.) These changes would not break the thief class in any wayD and e fine.
A, b and c are traits. You can’t take them all regen is a 30 pt trait. This isn’t free stealth goodies, the condi removal possibly could take an internal cd though.I’m not sure I would be on board with an internal cd on condition removal. One of the benefits to conditions, and their major strengths is that you can reapply them without any penalty.
Keep in mind that even with the internal c/d on that you would still have pretty good condi removal compared to say mesmers (who get none unless they trait or use utilities on obscenely long cds) but as I said any one or combo of those should be reasonable.
Mesmers have work around. Food that clears con 100% on 15sec reflect heal. Generosity on GS and newly buffed x/Torch traited for CD reduction and con removal. Together with just… being a Mesmer… I hardly notice conditions.
Oh they are still there… but the thing that irks me about it however I do like the torch for condi removal but it doesn’t remove all conditions. other classes just get it built into their heals for the most part… except I think engi’s and maybe necros not sure on that one…
Engi’s can trait to heal cond for each elixer skill (including their healing elixer) they use. Necros have the healing skill “feast…something something” and it removes all conditions and heals more for each condition.
I don’t think many people realize how Anet’s class system works.
If you think it’s about balance for each and every individual area, you are wrong. Each class has a strong area, and a weak area.
Thieves perform exceptionally well in 1v1 combat. Make a new character, click on thief profession. Now read the description
“They’re deadly in one-on-one combat”
Now if any of you played thief extensively(not just wvw), you will know that
A) They are powerful 1v1ist and even powerful in 1v2/3
B) They are exceptionally weak in ZergvZerg compared to pretty much every other class
C) They are exceptionally weak in PvE^This, is the whole design between Anet’s balancing. It is NOT a like Call of Duty where everything needs to be on par. This is the whole point of professions and classes. They perform DIFFERENT abilities, and hence have DIFFERENT strengths, which is why people say nerfing stealth will destroy the thief. If you make their ability to 1v1 on par with every other class, then they are every other class minus the fact that they completely suck in PvE and zergvzerg. If all classes were even on the 1v1 front, why roll a thief? When you can roll a ele? I mean, every class is par 1v1, except eles perform better in zvz, perform better in dungeons, perform better as support. This is the purpose behind roles. Thieves are duelists, 1v1ers and solo roamers, hard to catch, sneaky and elusive, and thus pay by being weak in zergvzerg, and PvE.
If you run a necro and run into a thief in wvw with nobody around, you’re fighting an uphill battle in which if you both have equal skill and luck, he will win, but in a zerg fight, you will beat the living crap out of the enemy zerg, compared to that thief, who you just ran into, melting at the sight of AoE spam, or if he runs tanky, desperately trying to squeeze out those 1K clusterbombs and dagger storms while you run around in 50K HP plague form.
I think a lot of posters should review what professions and classes are and the roles they play in this game. This is not CoD, this is not BF3. Classes should have the advantage in the role that they were designed for. If you are suggesting thieves be nerfed in 1v1s to be brought on par with every other class, then I better be seeing guardians/necro/ele/hammer warrior/confusion mesmer be brought to the same level as every other class in zerg v zerg. Then I want to see warrior be drastically nerfed in PvE to be brought on par with the other classes, which would all need balancing changes in order to be on par. Hell, lets just make a new game.
That’s not what I was saying at all. What I, and most others, are saying ISN’T that stealth is bad, just PERMA-STEALTH is bad. I am not rallying to nerf or get rid of stealth. At this point, I’m waiting to see what the culling fix Anet has talked about for March will do to the fact that stealth is overly abused in WvW (and not just by Thieves). That’s all I’m saying.
1) Anet should remove one of these perks from being stealthed
a) Condi removal for every three seconds while stealth (combined
with heals it competes with ele’s condi removal)
b) Regen while stealthed… yeah w/o healing power it isn’t all that great…
But it is still one of the little things that is causing big problems
c) 50% faster while stealthed… Seriously aside from stealth bombers when was the
last time sneaky=fast? How many sneaky fast navy seals are there? I know its
a game and all but seriously this is just a ridiculous trait that costs too little
d) stealth SHOULD break on a block… Invuln/evades yeah i’ll give that to you
but you are still hitting something when its blocked whether it be that shield/
off hand sword its basically guaranteeing a free HUGE hit to thieves when they
stay stealthed and their first attack was blocked… Not really fair to someone
that was not being a baddie/noob and could predict the attack change.
If someone blocks my shatters on my Mesmer I don’t get an immediate free
redo on the burst and no other class does when their attacks are blocked
except thieves
e) finally Caltrops and choking gas should break stealth… I don’t care how you want
to justify it, these skills do damage and therefore should suffer the revealed debuff…
If a Mesmer pops a shatter from stealth they get revealed… Why? The clones blew up
not the Mesmer they shouldn’t be revealed! But they are, same concept applies to
thieves. This would also make thieves consider things like taking the trait that drops
caltrops on a dodge… It would make them choose something either/stealth heavy or
mobility…
My 2 cents… on things that would help with thieves (erm,,, stealth) in WvW. Any one of these minor changes would prolly make a lot more people happy and the only thieves that would be ticked would be the ones that can’t adapt… Every class has had to adapt to nerfs to some of their core mechanics (generalization I know of a few specific ones.) These changes would not break the thief class in any wayD and e fine.
A, b and c are traits. You can’t take them all regen is a 30 pt trait. This isn’t free stealth goodies, the condi removal possibly could take an internal cd though.I’m not sure I would be on board with an internal cd on condition removal. One of the benefits to conditions, and their major strengths is that you can reapply them without any penalty.
Keep in mind that even with the internal c/d on that you would still have pretty good condi removal compared to say mesmers (who get none unless they trait or use utilities on obscenely long cds) but as I said any one or combo of those should be reasonable.
Mesmers have work around. Food that clears con 100% on 15sec reflect heal. Generosity on GS and newly buffed x/Torch traited for CD reduction and con removal. Together with just… being a Mesmer… I hardly notice conditions.
The problem are in cooldowns. I can reapply conditions between the 16 second (Guardian), and the long 30 second cooldowns. I can apply a lot of Bleeds, Burning, and Poison between those cooldowns. Not to mention the other conditions. The Theif is the only class that doesn’t suffer from the 66% reuse on skills from Chill that the other classes do. That’s why I try to have as close to a permanent uptime on Chill that I can on any of my classes, and the primary reason I dominate Elementalists.
Okay well I am guessing you play thief… Please as a reasonable thief player (if my assumptions are correct). Tell me which of the proposed changes you would be okay with some of them I feel should be changed no matter what are the blocking breaking stealth and the caltrops/choking gas… Other than that I am pretty amicable… If you have other ideas field them… I am not one to dismiss everything and I hope these suggestions wouldn’t be looked at and dismissed because I am a “baddy” according to some of the more ego friendly people here.
No I don’t play thief mainly. I have all classes at lvl80 and play mostly with Guard/Mes/Necro. I just can’t help but be bothered by some really incompetent players in this thread who are either sarcastic or really mad. I’ve made suggestions, but no agreement or disagreement, it’s just whine whine and more whine. Frankly, I just want a mod to close it for becoming not constructive.
That’s the cards you’re playing. You’re doing everything in your power to make the thread unconstructive, so you can go cry to the mods to close it. Wow you really should take a look at yourself now.
I’ve said repeatedly I disagree with Xsorus on nerfing the Thief, but I’ll be kitten if I’ll sit back and watch you, and others downplay the strength of the Thief to make your points. There is nothing I dislike more, than people who will lie to get ahead in life, and this makes gaming no exception.
I even pleaded with you to quit the nonsense you’ve been spewing, and try to convince Xsorus that getting buffs for other classes like the Ranger, Engineer, and Necromancer is a better course of action. But you’re more inclined to throw around the l2p, or umad nonsense because you can’t construct a reasonable argument.
My only quarrel with you is that you always seem mad, and you don’t make your points clear. You throw insults like no tomorrow and you don’t seem to try to understand my frustration with various things. My arguments are directed towards differnt people because they all have different views. You took my stance against Xsorus and made it into your own battle when it didn’t even direct attention towards you. That’s what pushes my buttons.
And like before, I agree with your method of improvement. I am not trying to downplay the thief. I am just trying to bring it to the level where it really is. It is not a God Tier. But it’s a lot better than most classes.
What a lot of people have showed interest in is nerfing stealth, which I do not agree with because for once we have a game that almost does stealth justice. If we revert back to a transparency/fake stealth or remove it totally, it would just make me sad as to how adventurous gw2 seems to be in the combat design. I don’t mind buffing other classes, or modding other areas to make stealth less potent. But I still want a thief to be able to disappear when he stealhes. We can remove CnD, lower stealth attacks, inc reveal debuff, remove infiltraitor’s arrow, etc. But the mechanic works well and it’s refreshing to see in a game for once.
There you go playing the umad bro card again. Do you know how silly that is? Words generally convey no emotions, and those emotions are generally applied by the reader, rather than the writer, unless the writer is a professional, and knows how to play on the readers emotions. If you’re seeing anger, maybe you’re the one having the issue?
As discussed with another poster, and I agree with him, at this point in the games timeline we should be balancing classes with themselves. First by fixing traits, and weapon choices so that everything is viable to certain builds, and nothing is worthless. Start with classes who have the greatest issues, like the Ranger, Necromancer, and Engineer, and move on to the other classes, yes even the Thief.
For example the Thief P/P is rather worthless, and needs a complete revamp.
Well I’m sorry, I really think our personas just clashed, so it’s my bad for making a big deal about it. Putting personal issues aside, I agree with looking at the weaker points of classes and making them better, I don’t know why flamethower is still kinda useless for an engi and what the scepter is the only ranged weapon for Guard.
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