Guild Wars 2

Thanks Tyler! One thing though, is #25 really intended? In that case, are the above-ground Phantasms bugged and should be able to fire without a target (causing them to go on CD)?

Just wanted to add my voice to the thanks: It’s great to have some feedback, and I’m really happy to hear about some of these fixes (wardens will reliably reflect again!). Thanks!

Great news! Ty very very much!

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Hope that helps

Thanks dude, you’re a hero. I’m actually looking forward to this feature patch now.

I wish your co-workers would be less shy and communicate more with us

New Major Trait Unlocked: Tyler’s Feedback

Tyler Chapman.1832:

-snip-

Thanks a lot, that’s a very useful list! Basically, I see that fixable bugs are being addressed now, while some are a result of underlying game-wide issues (shadowstepping, pathing) and may need another LS season to get sorted out.

Some of the points in the list are debatable or confusing (“intended, but bug”), but I guess it’s best we just wait for the feature patch itself and see how it works without forcing answers at this stage

I’ll put a notice at the top of the first post and update the list post-patch.

What is the feature build “logged”?

Although I like all those changes – isn’kitten bit poor that the greatest buffs we recive are … bugfixes? xD

Nature Anthem.1852:

What is the feature build “logged”?

I think it means that some portions get fixed by the feature patch, and the rest gets logged for future work (thus not abandoned).

Xyonon.3987:

Although I like all those changes – isn’kitten bit poor that the greatest buffs we recive are … bugfixes? xD

Since it’s the bug thread, buffs were not supposed to be announced here. We’ve also been told that there’s some nice stuff for us coming.

I didn’t say that. I just said that I expect that the bugfixes will be the biggest buffs we recive. And I kinda have to smile while thinking about that fact

Tyler Chapman.1832:

12. Intended. Those skills bounce to allies and only grant the POSITIVE effects “boons” its not attached to reflect. (Trick: use your reflect to grant extra bounces:D:D)

Hello Tyler!

Thanks for going through the bugs!

Regarding the reflection bug I reportet, unfortunately using reflect to grant extra bounces won’t work in most scenarios (at least when solo). The reason for this is pretty simple: the reflected bounce does not re-target the enemy so it will most likely hit one of your Illusions. It might hit an ally who is nearby. But that’s it. So where is the benefit of the additional bounce? You won’t get anything out of it. The additional bounce is virtual and does not have an effect.

Please watch this video.

This means that the bounce is will either be wasted (cleanse from iDisenchanter, traited iMage) or have close to no effect (iMage Retaliation, Staff Clone Might and Fury) because it hits your Illusion instead of you.

Great stuff Powerr.

Can you explain what is meant by, “after feature build ‘logged’”? I assume you mean, “fixed in a build slated for release after the feature build”.

Also, “Phantasms fire at inconsistent ranges at 800 to 1000 range.” – I believe you said this is as-intended. I’m having difficulty understanding this a little.

The spell actually has a 1200 range, but the Phantasms fire from 800-1000m.

I understand the concept of the 15% buffer range, but shouldn’t that mean the iMage should fire between 1020-1200m?

No it means that he will be castable at 1200 range, moves to 800 range, shoots, the projectile flies 1000 range far. If it would have 1000 range, the enemy just had to move 1 range further away and it would be out of range. It’s better like it is right now

When you say number 13 will be fixed, I assume you’re only talking about the Warden still reflecting after having stopped spinning ?
I guess the reflecting on TC will still be as bad as it is ?
Nice for other fixes though.

3.
For the leap/swap, I propose a change for this skill funcionality. I think first usage should be blink to foe, and the ability to swap places, leaving a clone at the enemy. this way we can use 3, launch 2, and go back with 3 for nice combo. Also, mesmer needs a reliable gap closer. It’s really needed when you melee Lupicus or Ancient Ooze, but this gap closer works just so badly and slowly.

Or, it could be leap like warriors have, so it’s really leap, BUT illusionary, as we can return back to where we started.

Sublimatio.6981:

3.
For the leap/swap, I propose a change for this skill funcionality. I think first usage should be blink to foe, and the ability to swap places, leaving a clone at the enemy. this way we can use 3, launch 2, and go back with 3 for nice combo. Also, mesmer needs a reliable gap closer. It’s really needed when you melee Lupicus or Ancient Ooze, but this gap closer works just so badly and slowly.

Or, it could be leap like warriors have, so it’s really leap, BUT illusionary, as we can return back to where we started.

I don’t agree. This would destroy the vast functionality of the current leap. Pvp wise, you can send a clone to the enemy player chasing you, he will propably ignore it and keep following you, but when he’s about to catch you, you just swap places with your clone and run in opposite direction. You have few seconds to do that, but it works even when the clone you summoned is already destroyed, you just teleport to the place when it was last standing. Teleporting to a foe and teleporting back leaving a clone at the enemy would not be usefull at all and thieves can already do that, but they easily teleport back to the enemy after they teleport away from him. Mesmer doesn’t have initiative. Mesmer is all about tricks and deception. Skill would become useless, especially in pvp. Illusionary Leap needs only a better aim while sending clone to the enemy. It doesn’t need to be entirely changed for worse.

It is phenomenal how quickly the bugs that benefit the mesmer are fixed.

Sublimatio.6981:

3.
For the leap/swap, I propose a change for this skill funcionality. I think first usage should be blink to foe, and the ability to swap places, leaving a clone at the enemy. this way we can use 3, launch 2, and go back with 3 for nice combo. Also, mesmer needs a reliable gap closer. It’s really needed when you melee Lupicus or Ancient Ooze, but this gap closer works just so badly and slowly.

Or, it could be leap like warriors have, so it’s really leap, BUT illusionary, as we can return back to where we started.

I disagree as well. I would not like to see a complete reverse-change of functionality.

However, I agree (and that has already been suggested before) that something can and should be changed to improve the current functionality since global pathing issues make this skill severely unreliable.

• The leap behaviour is replaced by spawn-on-target behaviour, and “Illusionary Leap” becomes “Illusionary ShadowStep”.
• To compensate for lack of trackability by opponents in PvP, the clone receives an idle time (equal to the usual leaping time) before it attacks and cripples the target.
• The re-triggering of leap+cripple for all clones created by this skill is left intact or is replaced by the usual running pathing.
• The Swap functionality remains intact. There is, however, a problem of exploiting height difference + long direct pathing (e.g. enemy on a wall), but this can be dealt with in a way similar to other shadowstepping skills.
• The Leap finisher is removed or replaced by a Blast finisher on spawn and/or on swap.

Added #28:

28. Illusion of Life. Separate thread.

• Those affected by Illusion of Life will instantly become downed after killing something, instead of staying alive. Only applies to PvE.

Another bug.

Sometimes when attempting to use illusionary leap, the range indicator will display that you are in range, but the skill will no properly produce a clone. Instead, it will just go on cooldown.

I’ll work on finding an effective repro for that, but it’s a pretty flighty one.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Sometimes when attempting to use illusionary leap, the range indicator will display that you are in range, but the skill will no properly produce a clone. Instead, it will just go on cooldown.

Originally I blamed #14 for it when I learned about that one, but after some observation I tend to agree that it is a separate issue.

Illusionary Leap, sorry to say but I don’t think it will ever be fixed….

Pyroatheist.9031:

Another bug.

Sometimes when attempting to use illusionary leap, the range indicator will display that you are in range, but the skill will no properly produce a clone. Instead, it will just go on cooldown.

I’ll work on finding an effective repro for that, but it’s a pretty flighty one.

Try at Lupicus. It happens because the point where every projectile flies is too high, but the red circle on ground that indicates range says it’s ok.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Added #28:
28. Illusion of Life. Separate thread.
Those affected by Illusion of Life will instantly become downed after killing something, instead of staying alive. Only applies to PvE.

Fixed in feature build

Nice! Reported it in the respective thread.

Wow, that’s a lot of fixes in a single build. And apparently there are more things to come.

This massive update wouldn’t have anything to do with the upcoming Chinese release, would it?

Tyler Chapman.1832:

3. Complicated, technically terrain related bugs. All classes have this issue to some extent.

While I’m sure there are terrain issues for everyone, this problem is far more severe for mesmers; unless on a 100% flat surface this illusion can fail up to 50% of the time.

4. Working as intended. Good topic for debate on changing in the future.

I believe you when you say this is intended. But I do not believe that you fully comprehend the situation. Mesmers essentially do not even receive swiftness; as it does not only not stack with itself, but it does not stack with any other classes swiftness. It is constantly being over-written by other skills and other cooldowns/timers. If the developers wish to completely disconnect mesmer swiftness from every other swiftness in the game then please change the boon to a unique one so that it reflects that.

9. Intended, follows standardized shadowstepping rules. No repro otherwise.

Surely you must be joking when you say you cannot reproduce this. I can show you THOUSANDS of places in the game where the spell shows you a green target and does not work. All we are asking is that it be changed to stop telling us its ok to cast when it’s not.

12. Intended. Those skills bounce to allies and only grant the POSITIVE effects “boons” its not attached to reflect. (Trick: use your reflect to grant extra bounces:D:D)

I don’t think you understood this at all; they are not giving boons because they are being reflected by the players they are supposed to land on.

15. Intended. This is how projectile/missile “tracking” works.

This is absolutely not true. If that is how projectiles work then why can ranger arrows track me down after I not only turn invisible but change directions while running.

Emissary Vex.5690:

This is absolutely not true. If that is how projectiles work then why can ranger arrows track me down after I not only turn invisible but turn directions while running.

Because ranger arrows move fast enough that they’ll still hit you even if you’re moving. If, however, you blinked to a different location, a couple arrows would miss because they were aimed at the spot you used to be. Additionally, you’re talking about a particular channeled skill called Rapid Fire. We all know that channeled skills still track after stealth, though from the number of ignorant complaints about it, you’d think otherwise.

Tyler is 100% correct here, you’re just misunderstanding game mechanics.

I think there’s a thing worth mentioning:

• How a normal player understands “intended”: «The resulting behaviour of this skill fully corresponds with both the letter (in-game skill description) and the spirit (common sense) of the game.»
• How ANet devs (and Pyroatheist) understand “intended”: «This particular skill code works precisely as we expected it to work, regardless of any other global issues which break functionality or cause inconsistency in behaviour to the end-user.»

Pyroatheist.9031:

Because ranger arrows move fast enough that they’ll still hit you even if you’re moving. If, however, you blinked to a different location, a couple arrows would miss because they were aimed at the spot you used to be. Additionally, you’re talking about a particular channeled skill called Rapid Fire. We all know that channeled skills still track after stealth, though from the number of ignorant complaints about it, you’d think otherwise.

Tyler is 100% correct here, you’re just misunderstanding game mechanics.

There is nothing “ignorant” about common sense. When you go into stealth, it’s only natural that you shouldn’t be tracked by Aetherblade’s lightning or a Toxic Assasin’s long-cast arrow. It is a game design flaw (one of those “lazy solutions” of early stages IMO, just like Temporal Curtain, which I BTW would call “ignorant”), and the fact that many people consider it a bug is not a coincidence but a consequence. A correct “lazy solution” to this problem would be triggering an interrupt on stealth, probably with a 1/2-1 second delay, with a “does not trigger any on-interrupt effects” flag and a “trigger only for skills which require a target” flag.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

4. Working as intended. Good topic for debate on changing in the future.

I do believe you when you say this is intended. But I do not believe that you fully comprehend the situation. Mesmers essentially do not even receive haste; as it does not only not stack with itself but it does not stack with any other classes haste. It is constantly being over-written by other skills and other cooldowns. If the developers wish to completely disconnect mesmer haste from every other haste in the game then please change the boon to a unique one so that it reflects that.

I believe you’re talking about swiftness, not haste or quickness. We do get swiftness, but only on a random basis; we do not have any built-in reliable source of swiftness, since Temporal Curtain’s “intended” behaviour is not reliable.

Lishtenbird.2814:

I think there’s a thing worth mentioning:

• How a normal player understands “intended”: «The resulting behaviour of this skill fully corresponds with both the letter (in-game skill description) and the spirit (common sense) of the game.»
• How ANet devs (and Pyroatheist) understand “intended”: «This particular skill code works precisely as we expected it to work, regardless of any other global issues which break functionality or cause inconsistency in behaviour to the end-user.»

This is actually sorta accurate. Here’s the problem. If you were to classify every little thing that doesn’t agree with ingame tooltips or simply doesn’t agree with common sense in terms of how the game should be, then you’d be left with nothing but bugs. The balance in the game is atrocious, multiple classes/builds aren’t viable, is this common sense good game design? No, it’s not, but you don’t classify it as a bunch of bugs because it’s not.

A bug is something functioning in a way that is unintended by the game developers. That’s it. There’s no other definition, full stop.

You are trying to conflate undesired game mechanics with unintended game mechanics. I’m as eager as the next guy to have an actual functional swiftness implementation for mesmer, and for my DE clones to not kitten out on the nearest available target, but I’m precise in my understanding that those are not bugs that can be fixed, but mechanics that must be changed.

If you want devs to listen to your ideas, complaints, and comments, you need to talk in their language, not the language of the common forum rabble.

Lishtenbird.2814:

There is nothing “ignorant” about common sense. When you go into stealth, it’s only natural that you shouldn’t be tracked by Aetherblade’s lightning or a Toxic Assasin’s long-cast arrow. It is a game design flaw (one of those “lazy solutions” of early stages IMO, just like Temporal Curtain, which I BTW would call “ignorant”), and the fact that many people consider it a bug is not a coincidence but a consequence. A correct “lazy solution” to this problem would be triggering an interrupt on stealth, probably with a 1/2-1 second delay, with a “does not trigger any on-interrupt effects” flag and a “trigger only for skills which require a target” flag.

Many people consider it a bug because they don’t understand how it works. In a game of magic and all the other ridiculous things, trying to apply normal logic to how stuff works is an exercise in futility. If ask most experienced PvPers, they’ll tell you that channeled stealth tracking is an important counter to one of the strongest mechanics in the game.

Pyroatheist.9031:

If you were to classify every little thing that doesn’t agree with ingame tooltips or simply doesn’t agree with common sense in terms of how the game should be, then you’d be left with nothing but bugs. The balance in the game is atrocious, multiple classes/builds aren’t viable, is this common sense good game design? No, it’s not, but you don’t classify it as a bunch of bugs because it’s not.

Please provide a sufficient number of inaccuracies that people do not consider bugs.

Pyroatheist.9031:

A bug is something functioning in a way that is unintended by the game developers. That’s it. There’s no other definition, full stop.

You are trying to conflate undesired game mechanics with unintended game mechanics. I’m as eager as the next guy to have an actual functional swiftness implementation for mesmer, and for my DE clones to not kitten out on the nearest available target, but I’m precise in my understanding that those are not bugs that can be fixed, but mechanics that must be changed.

Nope, there is. There are two definitions of a bug: the developer’s one and the player’s one (see my previous post). The player is a person who pays for the game, therefore his vision of a bug is of more prevalence. In a business model, the player is a client, and the developer is the executor; when the client pays for his bread, he doesn’t care whether the recipe was followed by the cook to the letter if the cooked bread is salty and not edible – he wants the edible bread he payed for even if it requires a change of the recipe.

Pyroatheist.9031:

If you want devs to listen to your ideas, complaints, and comments, you need to talk in their language, not the language of the common forum rabble.

Being both a player and a developer in my own field facilitates thing for me.
When “representing” a player, I can tell why a player thinks something is a bug.
When providing solutions, I can speak as a developer, see the possible root of the problem and suggest probable workarounds.
That said, a developer should also be able to treat himself as a player to understand why some things are repetitively claimed to be “bugs” even though there is nothing wrong with the code. (Well, not every developer, but those who are responsible for making gameplay decisions).

Pyroatheist.9031:

Many people consider it a bug because they don’t understand how it works. In a game of magic and all the other ridiculous things, trying to apply normal logic to how stuff works is an exercise in futility. If ask most experienced PvPers, they’ll tell you that channeled stealth tracking is an important counter to one of the strongest mechanics in the game.

The margin of plausibility is a subject of eternal debates. However, there are things which people consider normal (like being able to hit holograms, or being able to bleed and poison steel golems, or being able to create clones of flesh and blood), and there are things which they don’t. The stealth tracking is considered as the latter by many people. If you ask me, I’d say that using channeled tracking as a counter to stealth is pretty much similar to countering Shocking Aura with Mirror of Anguish – both work, both give benefits to user, both defy logic, and the only thing that differed (and made it fixed eventually) is noticably higher numbers.

I always wondered if this behavior was intended or is just a byproduct of game engine. Warrior starts Killshot, enemy stealths right away and moves away. No matter how far he moves to the side Killshot will always track and connect. Only way to counter the projectile is with normal means such as dodge, block, evade, blind, or reflect.

Channeled skills continuing to track enemy through stealth makes no sense.

It really doesnt, however a projectile in mid air should still hit. Stealth should cancel channels (charges only, not stuff like 100b!!).

Lishtenbird.2814:

I believe you’re talking about swiftness, not haste or quickness. We do get swiftness, but only on a random basis; we do not have any built-in reliable source of swiftness, since Temporal Curtain’s “intended” behaviour is not reliable.

Yes I meant swiftness sorry. Thanks for catching that

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Little treat for you guys we snuck in today

11. Fixed in feature build

Anyways tomorrow is my last day at ANet so you won’t be seeing this face on the forums any longer. Hopefully this forum visibility helped ease you guys over. Sorry for all the issues we never got around to I did my best to get as many bugs cleared in the last few months as possible.

~see you in game!

Thanks for doing what you could Tyler, we really appreciate it.

That being said, my hopes for this game are fading fast. With you gone, the balance team is reduced to the 4-man circle of failure. :-/

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Little treat for you guys we snuck in today

11. Fixed in feature build

Anyways tomorrow is my last day at ANet so you won’t be seeing this face on the forums any longer. Hopefully this forum visibility helped ease you guys over. Sorry for all the issues we never got around to I did my best to get as many bugs cleared in the last few months as possible.

~see you in game!

Why are you leaving?

This ^ . Why are you leaving us Powerr, and where are you going?

DiogoSilva.7089:

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Little treat for you guys we snuck in today

11. Fixed in feature build

Anyways tomorrow is my last day at ANet so you won’t be seeing this face on the forums any longer. Hopefully this forum visibility helped ease you guys over. Sorry for all the issues we never got around to I did my best to get as many bugs cleared in the last few months as possible.

~see you in game!

Why are you leaving?

Look up Arenanet/Ncsoft on websites that review companies for their work environments and benefits and such, and you’ll find your answer.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Look up Arenanet/Ncsoft on websites that review companies for their work environments and benefits and such, and you’ll find your answer.

wow, some of those reviews from employees ….. ;(

Just gonna copy/paste from a review I found:

-Recent removal of the QA department to a third party agency poses a severe threat to studio culture and the pre-existing dynamic of hiring/mentoring from within (Good portion of design and production started as QA)

And you think this game is buggy now…

Ah, so it was too good to be true. We got some of the best dev feedback in recent memory and poof!

Tyler – sad to see you go. I wish you well in your next adventure!

Pyroatheist.9031:

Just gonna copy/paste from a review I found:

-Recent removal of the QA department to a third party agency poses a severe threat to studio culture and the pre-existing dynamic of hiring/mentoring from within (Good portion of design and production started as QA)

And you think this game is buggy now…

Hoping we don’t lose Grouch. I think he’s in QA now.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Little treat for you guys we snuck in today

11. Fixed in feature build

Anyways tomorrow is my last day at ANet so you won’t be seeing this face on the forums any longer. Hopefully this forum visibility helped ease you guys over. Sorry for all the issues we never got around to I did my best to get as many bugs cleared in the last few months as possible.

~see you in game!

So sad to hear this, but thanks so much. Some of us have been posting about some of these bugs for so long…. Who’s gonna take up the call now?

Anyway, all the best to you on your next project!!

Pyroatheist.9031:

Just gonna copy/paste from a review I found:

-Recent removal of the QA department to a third party agency poses a severe threat to studio culture and the pre-existing dynamic of hiring/mentoring from within (Good portion of design and production started as QA)

And you think this game is buggy now…

That is not good.

-Overall attempts to practice agile development, but consistently missing the mark

-New teams/projects sometimes fail to take lessons from past post mortems or projects and repeat the same mistakes (i.e. repeating similar build process/work flows that were proved to be inefficient in past development)

Made my day

Given I have a friend who works with Arenanet on-site QA, I can say those claims of outsourcing QA to 3rd parties are completely false.

QA is on contract. They work until their contract expires when they take a MANDATORY leave of absence before they’re allowed to apply for a new contract.

I do not know Tyler’s position/choice/time-period within his contract, but this is the way that not only Arenanet does it, but most of the gaming industry handles their QA.

Best of luck on your future plans, Tyler! Be sure to come back for the Feature Patch, so we can throwdown in a new meta!

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Little treat for you guys we snuck in today

11. Fixed in feature build

Anyways tomorrow is my last day at ANet so you won’t be seeing this face on the forums any longer. Hopefully this forum visibility helped ease you guys over. Sorry for all the issues we never got around to I did my best to get as many bugs cleared in the last few months as possible.

~see you in game!

Thanks for everything powerr! Have fun at your new job

And thanks for stepping into this topic and keeping us updated on what is fixed and when.

#elepocalypse

Just to clear up. We’re not sure if or how much of QA they’re outsourcing.

Keep in mind that many of those cons you see on the review sites are very very common in the gaming industry. Things like contracting, outsourcing, etc. Even blizzard has some that are similar to that.

So while it sucks to see Mr. Chapman go, don’t start going out into the streets of DR claiming the end is coming. Only time will tell how this game does and delivers on content. I still have faith in Anet. The great thing about Gw2 is that even if you don’t have faith right now, you can stay up with the game still. You can still come in whenever you want and see what they changed, log in and try it out, and more.

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Little treat for you guys we snuck in today

11. Fixed in feature build

Anyways tomorrow is my last day at ANet so you won’t be seeing this face on the forums any longer. Hopefully this forum visibility helped ease you guys over. Sorry for all the issues we never got around to I did my best to get as many bugs cleared in the last few months as possible.

~see you in game!

Soon there will be none of the original team left… If sales are doing good, why do they keep getting rid of the people who are at least trying to represent ANet and keep customers informed here on the forums.

Otaur.9268:

Soon there will be none of the original team left… If sales are doing good, why do they keep getting rid of the people who are at least trying to represent ANet and keep customers informed here on the forums.

QA testers are contract workers and their contracts only tend to last for a few years at most. Its no different from any other contract work and after the contract is over, unless the company later hires you or resigns you, you go elsewhere.

I’m going to take a stab here and guess that we’ll get the release date for the feature patch during the ready-up?

It’s all but certain Powerr knows the current target date, and since it’s his last day you probably don’t want to put him in a position where he would have to stay quiet when he’s not working there anymore.