(edited by Ashern.5328)
Showing Posts For Ashern.5328:
I don’t quite understand why people are counting the “size” and “content” of HoT compared to EoTN. In order to truly compare Eye of the North to Heart of Thorns, you have to look at a couple of things.
I would start by comparing the base games first and foremost. From Guild Wars 1 to Guild Wars Eye of the North, there was only a 3 year gap of release. More content may or may not have been added after the release of EoTN, but ultimately, the 3 years are where the bulk of content was provided.
When you say “HoT adds more content than EoTN,” you must also look at and compare how much content was already released in the Guild Wars 1 universe before EoTN came out compared to Guild Wars 2 and HoT.
Of Course GW2 is going to be much larger in scale, it’s a newer game. Times have changed and of course things will go from simple to more extravagant as games progress. With that said, you must ultimately compare GW1 to GW2. GW1 is a complete series of games with multiple “base games,” featuring multiple distinct storylines about various different ethnicities (which is one thing that made me play the game).
Guild Wars 2 only has 1 main story. It has released Living World content, but that’s also only 1 story. It may have taken this long to get to Mordremoth, but it’s still only one story. Heart of Thorns is that same story as was presented in Guild Wars 2 base, so there’s technically no new storyline within HoT, only a continuation.
HoT has new content, of course, what new release doesn’t. EoTN has mini games, HoT has minigames. EoTN introduced dungeons, HoT introduced raids. Compare if you will, it doesn’t change anything. Stop looking at how “big” something is in “scale” because that is nowhere near a direct comparison in the slightest.
Something I loved about EoTN is that within those new regions that were added, there were multiple maps (maybe only about 4-5 in each region), but they were new places to explore. Within HoT, multiple sub-levels of the same map isn’t something new to explore, it’s only a very large map.
So continue quoting numbers of useless comparisons; “eotn added 150 skills,” and “revenant has more skills than EoTn entirely.” Really? I’ve never heard anything more idiotic in my life. Since GW2 started, how many new skills were released? Now when Guild Wars 1 Started, how many new skills were released? A whole giant set of them with each new campaign, and cherry-on-top skills within EoTN; so yes, Revenant has more skills than an entire GW1 Expansion; and look at how long it’s taken that class with so many skills to come out?
I’ll stop posting after this because I don’t want to have to constantly defend myself after I’ve just come here to state my case. Yes, it is a complaint. No, crafting is not my only option. With that said, I don’t take gold lightly — I’m highly annoyed that I was shafted by choosing to craft it instead of buy it outright. If I had known initially that I would come to this conclusion, of course I wouldn’t have chosen to craft it; but it’s now too late for me to be able to drop it and buy it instead because I’ve already spent equally as much, so might as well finish it.
Mature thinking is what allows me to post on these forums without using explicit language, so that I can share my unadulterated experience with anyone that is thinking about going down the same path that I have. Although most likely, if they are, they probably aren’t thinking its such a waste and aren’t actually checking the forums to see if it’s a good idea or not. Most importantly, this thread is directed heavily at ArenaNet for the grave misthinking on their part.
Anet never told people that it’s a cheap way, it’s a non RNG way to get precouser it doesn’t mean cheaper, easier or faster to get.
They just forgot to make it a FUN way. Anybody farming iron by coincidence?
That’s your opinion, for some people if they can’t get what they wanted for 1g in 5 minutes they will consider it not fun. If you don’t like time consuming and gold sink you shouldn’t be looking at legendary in the first place. They are not meant to be cheap or fast.
There is a big difference between thinking Precursor crafting should only take 5 mins for 1g, than spending over 400g in expenses that could have very well gone towards buying stacks of T6 mats or helping fund the Gift of [Insert]. If you want to justify spending this much more by way of saying it made you feel like you accomplished something by farming it all yourself, that’s fine.
I had the same feel as well. Then I realized; what is the difference between farming all the mats myself for weeks to months, and farming other mats to sell and buy what I want in a very shorter amount of time? Either way, farming is being done, and the outcome will always be something that I spent my time and money on and it will always be something I’ve accomplished on my own.
The feels you get from doing something on your own, no matter the cost, does not justify the fact that that many materials and that much money was effectively deleted from your grasp for no justifiable reason. Yes, the collection is fun to do when you’re hunting for spots, events and items, but as I’ve said, it all goes out the window when you have to craft the Experiments.
Of course offhand items will be cheaper than say, two hands, but it should always equate to the price of the actual item on the TP. Making Howl was perfect, it didn’t ask for an unreasonable amount of items and it was very close to the actual price of it on the TP. Of course, they can’t determine how much the going price on the tp is actually worth, which means that by the end, you may have spent 100 to 200g over the actual value of the precursor because the price has been shifting. My point stands that this isn’t just a mere 100g over priced, it’s literally the cost of another precursor in its entirety.
Thanks for the links of the merged posts, however, the statements made in them actually bring me to another question. Why weren’t the precursors made from these collections account bound? I thought that was really the point of crafting it in the first place; to not have them able to be put up on TP to drive the prices up or down.
People don’t seem to realize that farming everything yourself for “free” is effectively worse than selling items that you farm for “free” for the gold to buy them directly. Either way, the crafting of precursors is a waste on both accounts.
(edited by Ashern.5328)
Thanks for the responses, I didn’t know if my statements were unfounded or not. No one get me wrong, I’m ok with spending more on crafting…if it’s about a 100g difference at most. I’m actually one of those people that can’t save up a lot of money to save my life. I make money when I need to and am broke when I don’t. That’s just how it’s always been, but I like doing it that way because when I just have money floating around, I’ll end up buying something I don’t even need. It’s hard to save up for a precursor because of this. However, when all I needed to do was save up for the first tier collection and then sell all of the items outright, I would almost instantly have what I needed to buy the actual precursor without spending double the amount of gold just to finish off a scam of a collection =/.
Yes, the time spent and the “adventure” of the collection is more important, but let’s be honest, that goes out the window the moment you have to see 10 to 60 ascended mats going down the 24karat gold sink just to make something no more than half of the value of hose items . /ponder-ing at things around the world was nice and I saw some things I had never payed attention to before, and to me it was actually aimed at Engineers (because would Revenants/Guardians/Warriors actually be intelligent enough lore-wise to ponder stuff to get ideas at how to make a hammer?!)
I looked at the later collections and saw about the oozes as well. Ultimately, the collection is fun to do. What is blasphemy is that you have to get Superior Forging Tools or 250 Hammer Heads and Hafts, and then sets of Bronze~Deldrimor hammer pieces just to trade it in for a collection item that is worth zilch and having all the materials you spent immediately become null.
(edited by Ashern.5328)
I’m going to be honest. I stopped playing this game, not because of ArenaNet or the game itself, but because since I had pretty much maxed and mastered PvE, I went on an AP hunt that led me on a blind rage of fury inside Solo PvP. After I successfully managed to farm a lot of AP there, it unfortunately caused me to become detached from PvE. PvE looked very nasty by the time I was finished with SPvP.
Work was coming up soon, so I just decided to stop playing because I wouldn’t have enough time anyway, and had grown bored because I kinda went ham on SPvP. I picked up another mmo, and since my work had finished, I was able to play that game freely and I still enjoy it.
My friend offered to get my HoT because I wasn’t able to get it myself. I hesitated because I didn’t want him to waste money, but after a little while of a few friends convincing me I took him up on that offer! While I was playing these past few weeks, I’ve been enjoying it.
Sadly, I’ve come to a realization. Visually, HoT is wonderful. I can appreciate all of the game designers that worked on it and it’s very nice with how it came through. Heart of Thorns is not my issue. What came with it, what changed, and what ArenaNet has forced upon its players is my issue.
I’m now asking myself: where is the game? I sincerely don’t feel like doing meta events for the rest of my playtime. I don’t want to grind a very small selection of new maps, just to progress my Heart of Thorns mastery. I’ve become repulsed by those new maps because they all revolve around the same thing. A new currency in each map, with a vendor selling items specific to that map? That means I need to live in one map to progress only one thing.
It’s almost like Silverwastes. Back then, I was living there — like literally. — to farm Carapace and Luminescent Armor. But it wasn’t so bad, I was getting a lot of silk and t6 mats as well. Overall, that map wasn’t — and still isn’t — so bad. Now, we have these new maps that are Silverwastes all over again, except now the map isn’t simple, it’s layered with up to 4 levels from what I’ve seen. The maps are massive which is nice, but it’s very boring.
Part of enjoyment from a new experience perspective with Guild Wars has always been going into new maps and seeing “how does this one look?!” With Heart of Thorns, I go into one map and stay there. What I see is what I see and nothing will ever change because there are only a few maps. They are leveled, and each one looks different, but it’s just not the same and frankly I don’t care about spending so much time on one map.
With meta events and a very small selection of overly massive levels out of the way, there are still a slew of other things. Much to my dismay, after I came back, I noticed a lot of builds I used were either nerfed or completely removed. Traits that were very useful, but underused because there were better options were completely removed instead of revamped. I completely hated seeing the traits changed into “specializations” that literally only have one combination of useful traits.
I hate that gold from dungeons were reduced. Why? It was a decent way of making money, and yes it may have been repetitive but it was still actually fun to do. Now what is the point? It practically costs 60s just to WP to the dungeon entrance, and now that’s all you get as a reward? (Of course I’m exaggerating, but it’s for good reason). I hate that fractals have been converted from a small commitment with a chance for something rare, to a get-in & get-out activity with practically nothing good aside from the Daily Research Pages.
I hate that it created a rift within guilds by adding massive resource sinks and out-of-nowhere created a new system basically requiring everyone within the guild to donate their items and gold. This wouldn’t be a problem, but they also added other resource and gold sinks as well. Precursor Crafting? I’ve just used up items valued at a total of 700g for my precursor, and I’m not even finished with the collection yet (it will next require a minimum of items valued at 300g). The sad part? That precursor is on the TP for only 600g.
We can change ascended armor and weapons to different stats for a fair amount of items— lovely, this means that every piece of gear is now usable in one way or another. Wait, now we have to salvage that gear for Balls of Dark Energy to progress in other content? So you’re telling me I have to salvage something that has now doubled in value — and is frankly way too expensive to craft manually now that the timegated ascended mats have skyrocketed in price -- just so I can get one item needed for a collection?
Where is the actual game? Tyria has been ripped to literal shreds. So much so, that there is no reason to play it whatsoever. If I don’t like the way Heart of Thorns forces us to play one way, what else can I do? Dungeons are worthless; fractals are worthless aside from the dailies — but once those are finished, they’re back to being worthless. I just want to play the game, not be forced into a 2+ hour long meta event that may or may not even give me anything I want.
My materials, my gold, goes down the 24karat gold sink everytime I want to progress in anything and everything. ArenaNet has chopped and screwed everything about this game that I thought was decent. It’s now become a game where it’s much more simpler to spend $$$ on gold conversion than to actually play. Which is very sad and disheartening because they started with the completely opposite end of philosophies.
Everyone that is enjoying the game, all the power to you. But I personally don’t like meta events and wish there were just normal maps that I could complete, move on, come back later if something is going on or if I want to farm there and be finished. I don’t want to be forced to live in a map forever just to get something I’m looking for.
To all the people saying “whatever, leave, new players will fill your space.” That’s all well and good, however people play MMOs usually with friends or family. If even one person suggests for someone else not to play an MMO — not because they don’t like it, but because the company developing the game has stabbed its playerbase in the back, whether or not you realize it or whether or not you still enjoy the game. It doesn’t change the fact that everyone has been stabbed.
What really gets me isn’t that Heart of Thorns is 100% Metaful, it’s that the original Tyria content was nerfed to the point of there being no reason to play it. What happens when you get tired of spamming Maguuma Jungle meta events? There is nothing to fall back on if you’ve already finished Tyria. You’re either stuck with meta events, or stuck with a base game that serves no purpose simply because the developers decided to dismantle it just to turn your attention towards Heart of Thorns.
(edited by Ashern.5328)
It’s very saddening for me to come to this revelation. I don’t understand what’s going on. Everything that has been implemented since the expansion has completely stabbed everyone in the back. Ascended crafting has practically tripled in cost; we now have to salvage multiple pieces of those pricey gears for a ball of dark energy for a collection or three.
They talk of keeping Legendary stats the same as ascended because they don’t believe in the “new tier of gear,” yet they practically contradict themselves directly by successfully draining gold and items from the economy and then requiring additional gold and items to be spent on gear that has always been available.
Hate to turn this thread into a bash HoT one, so I’ll stop. Thanks four your input, and I’ll know not to look at another precursor collection. I halfway want to drop Colossus but since I’ve already spent this much on it -.-.
It hit me. As I’m now crafting my 2nd precursor, Colossus, I realized how stupid I’ve been. My first precursor crafted was Howl, which only required a fair 8 or so Spiritwood planks and equal amount of Deldrimor. It roughly equated to it’s precursor price on the TP.
However, with the Colossus, I am now around 70% through completing only the second tier of the collection, and I’ve seen that I’ve now spent over 700g (and I’m not even finished) worth of items, to craft a precursor that is currently 600g on the tp.
I don’t have the exact numbers because I’ve forgotten and didn’t take note, but let’s start with what I do know: The legendary inscription alone asks for 10 Elonian Leather Squares, averagely valued at 12g (was 15g when I started the collection). Our total currently stands at 120g worth of items spent. Next, the first experimental weapon asked for 10 Spiritwood Planks and 15 Deldrimor Steel. 10 Spiritwood are averagely valued at over 15g (150g) . 15 Deldrimor steel, valued at 9g, (135g)
Our current total is 405g. Next, the 2nd tier asks for 5 more Deldrimor steel (or was it 10?) That’s another 45g — 450g. After that, it requires 15 more Deldrimor Steel; our total is now 585g. It’s also going to ask for more spiritwood I’m 100% sure for the Large Hammer Haft requisition, which is most likely going to be 10 more spiritwood. My total is now effectively 735g.
Only about 50g over Colossus’ average price, fair enough — I get AP as well. Wait a minute, I forgot to factor in the 1,000 or more Elder Wood Planks (not logs) and 2,000 Mithril Ingots (not ore). I’ll just go ahead and top the price to 900g even though I’m far sure that the price exceeds 900g. Factor in the time spent hunting for the collection items; money spent using WPs to get those collections as well as things like 25 Stabilizing Matrices, 25 Passion Flowers (almost 30g alone), 1k Bandit Crests (how much are 1,000 bandit crests worth if you translate it into time spent? and 400 Geodes. Yes, you can get those for mapping Dry Top and Silverwaste now, but that is still time spent.
Let’s make the total 1,000 gold minimum. I’m not even on the third tier yet, and hopefully if its like the Howler, it doesn’t ask for an unreasonable amount of items. Now I ask the question, why am I crafting the precursor? I could save 100g if I custom-ordered everything, sure; it doesn’t change the fact that crafting it is extremely overpriced.
This relates to buying as well as farming the items required, because either way, you’re spending something. I found it was quicker to farm something and sell, then buy what I need, than to actually farm what I need (which is horrible, because it’s sapping the already elusive gold from my wallet).
I don’t appreciate this giant resource sink when, in the end, I come out dumber than I was when I started because I somehow thought I was saving money by crafting it myself. Now, new legendaries come out requiring even more? (The first tier of HOPE asks for 5 bolt of damask — not for the experimental weapon, but for something to cover a jar of honey with. Wtf, are you serious? Not even from a lore standpoint does this make a lick of sense.)
Of course items are inflated right now because everyone wants this stuff, but now Legendary armor is coming out and is going to require even more silk and leather than is already in too-high demand.
What is the point of crafting the precursors at all? Even if I had loads of materials saved up to where I didn’t need to buy anything, all of it would be gone when I finished one precursor that apparently wasn’t an offhand.
This has made me seriously agitated as I’ve roughly calculated how much money I threw away that could have been spent on T6 materials or things needed for the actual legendary and not the precursor.
I don’t understand how everything seems to have been aimed at re-designing the economy; it’s not very smart to make drastic sinks and changes into an already-established economy whatsoever.
(edited by Ashern.5328)
I see your point. With that said, I can also say the same about other classes. With what you’re saying, it seems as if you mean that Engis are just button mashers with no actual merit. However, I’d like to see exactly what you propose for Engis to change. If it’s to re-work the toolbelt, then sure — that’s not an “overhaul,” it’s just fixing the toolbelt.
To me, Engi is what makes the class itself, not it’s “core mechanic” of F1~ skills, because Engi is already in itself a core mechanic(?). Shatters don’t make Mesmers Mesmers, they are to benefit them. On that same token, Attunements do make Eles Eles because their class is built around that. The same with Engis, the toolbelt doesn’t make Engis Engis, it’s there to benefit them. Kits are their core mechanic because no other class has instant access to so many fields and different skills.
Not acknowledging kits as the Engineers core mechanic is to ignore what’s placed in front of you.
Maybe it’s because I’ve never had an issue with the toolbelt. To me, I can’t necessarily say it’s “fine,” but I don’t see it as broken or extremely messed up. I can agree, once I use up all my Toolbelt skills, I’m left with an “ok now what” type of feeling. But what is the difference between that and other classes’ F1s?
The toolbelt has always been there for what I needed it to do; pop a reflection, a field, or stealth, or whatever. It is basically it’s own toolkit up there above my own skills. I don’t necessarily see the benefit of giving it a different mechanic because I’m pretty much happy with all that Engi can do already.
That’s where our opinions differ on this matter I suppose. I can name issues with toolbelt, but I can also name issues with any other classes’ F skills or even their mechanics. So for me, Engi is very well balanced.
(edited by Ashern.5328)
Hello, this will be a long post. To be truthul, I was slightly irritated reading through how you described the engineer. The irritation isn’t specifically directed at you, but simply at the idea that someone feels this way about the Engineer, and that they’re trying to compare them to new specs that were specifically meant to bring underwhelming classes to the forefront of PvE.
Unfortunately I have to disagree on a lot of things. First of all, Engineer has almost always been a top contender. One reason it may not seem as they got all the fancy new things as other classes is because they already have those things.
Binding kits to separate specializations will completely hinder Engineers and take away all of the fun. One thing about Engineer is that they are literally able to do anything. If you would then have to go through the hassle of changing your traits just to equip a kit, it would make it the most annoying class to play because you can’t take advantage of the universal playstyle that is Engineer. It seems as if you describe almost every one of the Engineer’s utilities as “niche,” when that is literally the purpose of Engineer — to be able to use anything that is needed in the moment without having to swap classes.
In a way, the specializations are already set up that way. You have to go into Explosives to get the most out of grenades and bombs; you have to go into Firearms to get the most of flamethowers and rifles; you have to go into Alchemy to get the most out of Elixir gun…. That’s fine, but don’t make it so you can’t equip those kits at all unless you are inside one of the spec trees.
I’ve noticed I deal a very fair amount of damage on Scrapper, maybe not compared to other classes, and there’s a reason for that. There’s also a reason you don’t see a PvE Mesmer complaining about their damage when comparing themselves to a full zerk staff Ele spamming 10k/per hit meteor storms. To be honest, Flamethrower is actually a very good wep now, especially for solo play. The flamethrower trait paired with one in Scrapper will give perma 15+ stacks of might (at least when used with Rune of Strength) and 25 stacks in combat if used with Gain Might on crit foods.
Classes aren’t mean to be better or worse, or deal better or worse damage than other classes; but simply are supposed to be on equal footing. And I feel Engineer is still a top contender. Half of those gizmos are pretty bad, but there are also some really good ones.
For instance, “Bulwark Gyro,” redirects 50% of damage of all allies to itself. That may seem useless, but it’s instant cast and almost instantaneous effect once placed. Its toolbelt skill is an overwhelmingly large bubble that reflects projectiles (even if they are created inside the bubble. It lasts 5 seconds with a decent cooldown; and with some particular traits, it’s possible to cast it twice in a row. The gyro that spams whirling finishers can be dropped onto a water field for spam healing (although I never do).
My point is, Engi’s can stealth, stack might, has three water fields with common builds, and can now stack swiftness. They can also reflect with that gyro and Elixir U, and also with turret placement. They can stack Vuln and blind, as well as other conditions, can cure conditions on allies, and not to mention that they have a dozen stuns and dazes that can drop a defiance bar rather quickly, or keep a mob locked down.
Yes, their toolbelts may not be “on par with other classes’ F1~ skills,” but they more than make up for it. I use that giant shield bubble at Tequatl, and for 5 seconds, there is tranquility after the claws comes up and throws poison down. When it runs out, it’s all over.
If there were more people playing engi and utilizing all they have to offer, things would go much smoother (not just at teq, but in general). While everyone is spamming Reaper or Revenant as if they are more OP than any other class, I say let them.
You say that engineers don’t have a mechanic to call “ours,” but I say they do. They’re the only class that can stack might, stealth, swiftness, and various conditions by their lonesome without requiring someone else drop a specific type of field; they have all of them, even chaos fields now.
Now more than ever have I noticed the power of Engineers. I love scrapper because it takes the utility of engineers to a new level. I don’t care if I deal overall less damage than a class that is specifically meant to do damage. Engis are on their own scale of usefulness that doesn’t directly relate to any other class.
I can’t really believe you call Engi a mess “since introduction.” They have been the most overpowered class, at least in sPvP, for a while now. Even with scrapper, they’re literally unkillable in a 1vs1 with a Sentinel amulet on. I’ve actually been wanting to try a PvE condition build to see how that worked out, but anyways.
I can understand you see all the new dazzling things that are other classes, but Engineer is literally in it’s own bracket, incomparable to other classes for the simple fact that they take a little from each class and jumble it together into something that works well for everyone.
If Engineer changes come like the way you want, I can guarantee you will dislike it. Well, maybe I can’t, but I could most likely guarantee that I wouldn’t find them as enjoyable anymore. For the reason that they are a jack of all trades, and the only “upgrade” they can get is to specialize into one thing; one type of playstyle; which will ultimately remove that Jack factor for them and make a lot of people upset.
Yes, Tempest has been given an overcharge function, and it’s literally the best — I love it. Yes, Dragonhunters got an overhaul of their F1 functions. And look, the Engineer only got a little robot that is almost as unsettling as it’s name “Gyro.” However, they also gave Engi a new blast finisher from using F5 on Mortar and a water field, a smoke field, and an ice field (and a poison). All of those things are useful whether or not it means a new way to stack stealth, a new way for allies to gain frost armor from Leaps (which has been updated to actually be useful; -10% damage taken), or a new addition to the water field family.
What I’m trying to say is: no, Engineers didn’t get Continuum Rift; no Engineers didn’t get Overload Toolbelt; no Engineers didn’t get a new set of Toolbelt skills; who cares? All the updates those classes got were to bring them all to equal footing.
Mesmer was a complete hassle to play in PvE because they dealt no damage but had a lot of utility such as reflects and condition removals, but now they have a way to be more useful by recharging skills for allies faster or having more access to quickness.
Necro was not a very playable character in PvE because they offered no utility and no significant form of damage.
Ele’s overload allowed them to support more and deal more damage because truthfully, they were lacking in the damage department considering they are pretty much built to nuke. I haven’t played many of the other classes, but I’m pretty sure it balanced things out finely as far as PvE goes.
I believe you would have to be extremely specific in what changes you want to see done on Engineers, because all the points you’ve made, are to me, extremely invalid. As an above post said, the Function Gyro is extremely useful. Be it stomping someone in PvP while you’re running away or ressing someone with it while you continue to fight.
My last point, and this is a big one, is directed at the weapon swap. If they make this change for PvE, it will spill into PvP as well. It would be the biggest mistake in mankind. You say it wouldn’t overpower Engineers by having weaponswap; well I say it would completely overpower engineers by having weaponswap.
Each weapon for Engineer offers a mix of things. Rifle has immobilize and knockback, pistol has conditions, shield has blockage, and now hammer has a variety of things. A projectile reflector that deals way too much damage, a block skill that stacks Vulnerability and also deals nice damage, a x3 leap skill that must be paired with a field; a water field and leap will restore a lot of hp, a lightning field and leap will be 3 dazes — it’s crazy. Not to mention their stun-on-impact lightning field.
If an engineer has more than one of these combinations, it will be very game-breaking. An engineer that is able to spam conditions on p/p then swap to rifle to also immobilize and spam a crazy knockback, then stun break yourself to cancel the self knockback, swap to wrench to pull enemy back, smack with confusion, swap to pistol, spam conditions all over again, swap to rifle, knockback………NO.
They are very good where they are, and weapon swap will ruin everything. Even in PvE, it will unbalance things quickly. Ultimately I don’t share the same unsatisfying feel about Engineers as you do and I would personally be upset if any of those changes were implemented because I feel Engineers do what they need to do and get what they need to get done already.
I don’t care about or compare them to what other classes got, because those classes got them for a reason — because they were underwhelming in specific aspects of the game and therefor useless. Now they have them; Engineer is still overwhelming and extremely useful; just because they didn’t also get a major update doesn’t mean they are now lacking.
An update to my earlier post about Howler; luckily I found some info on Reddit about those same two collection items in particular not exactly being bugged, but simply listed as the wrong location.
The info told me to kneel at the Wolf and Snow Leopard shrines in Dredgehaunt drifts and not in Lornar’s Pass. I finally completed the collection. To note, I didn’t actually get any items for kneeling like I did before, but my collection was still updated.
I’m on Howler Tier 3 collection and I’m missing two due to a bug. Two items require you to kneel at Snow Leopard Shrine for Snow Leopard’s Grace (located at Leopardshadow Shrine in Lornar’s Pass) and Wolf Shrine for Wolf’s Ferocity (located at Wolfpaw Shrine in Lornar’s Pass).
When I kneel at them, nothing happens — I don’t get an item nor does any kind of spirit appear to talk to. I’ve successfully kneeled at Raven Shrine as well as Bear Shrine and completed the event, but Wolf and Snow Leopard aren’t working.
EDIT: An update to my post; luckily I found some info on Reddit about those same two collection items in particular not exactly being bugged, but simply listed as the wrong location.
The info told me to kneel at the Wolf and Snow Leopard shrines in Dredgehaunt drifts and not in Lornar’s Pass. I finally completed the collection. To note, I didn’t actually get any items for kneeling like I did before, but my collection was still updated.
(edited by Ashern.5328)
(do people even use Generosity?)
I tested it some and was pretty impressed.
I’m not quite sure whether it prioritizes Torment high or just rips off big stacks first, but it did a pretty good job purging big damaging conditions rather than just inconsequential throw-ins.
I see… I never considered it worth a use compared to things like Sigil of Doom/Energy or Leech/Fire and what not.
I’ve gotten lazy and started going with double energy sigil so it doesn’t leave much room for a lot of sigil options when I want Doom and most likely Fire. So you’re sure that the condition that got removed wasn’t just the most recent applied to you?
Every mesmer
Citation needed.
I like when people base their facts or opinions of the entirety of Mesmers off of what others say or even their personal experiences instead of realizing there’s more than one way to play. Part of me wants to believe he was joking (do people even use Generosity?)
Please share some of your ranked PvP videos, especially against good thieves.
I haven’t ever recorded my fights. I will say though that thieves with Withdraw + Roll For Initiative + S/D can give me a hard time since they’ll be evading 80% of the battle. D/P is another annoyance with the blind, but I’ve slightly learned how to handle most of those situations…
what you mean by “slightly learned” when it comes to thieves? Are you saying that it’s still work in progress in getting better against them, or it took you a short time to learn how to deal with.
I dont mean to badger you, but the general sentiment shared by many (including top Mesmer players in high level PvP tournaments) is that an equally skilled thief against Mesmer on the same skill level the advantage is heavily in favor of the thief. I just dont want the new players get the wrong info on the reality of Mesmer in the current state of the game, because it’s not that great, to say the least.
It’s not badgering. However, first and foremost, I’ve killed both lesser-skilled theives as well as very good thieves. Half the time it depends if I’m getting ganked while I’m fighting someone else or if I’m aware that a thief is coming after me. I’ve learned to always have my stun break and invis ready in case I get skelked and ganked. Simple things that let you survive better instead of blindly running and being free food. The same goes with any class playing zerker, especially bad rangers that don’t know how to dodge or do anything but spam longbow without any actual goal in mind.
Perhaps I haven’t fought thieves “above my skill level” but the ones I fight commonly in PvP I would consider myself on par. Depending on the place, yes, a thief may have the upper hand. Depending on whether or not my skills are on cd from a previous fight, yes, the thief may have an upper hand. The opposite is also true, there are times when I’m able to time my skills after seeing that they’re about to go into defensive mode instead of attacking me.
I don’t really have to give proof, as if I was telling a story, I simply wouldn’t tell it (why would I come into a Mesmer forum and tell a blatant lie, as to boast? Uh, no.). What I mean by “slightly learned how to handle the situation” is that against D/P blind spammers, yes, I’m continuously getting better; as when I first realized why I was dying to them, I looked for and found a solution for most times.
Nowhere have I stated that no thief can kill me, and it’s not really my concern what the “general sentiment shared by many top players” is, because what they may consider bad, someone else may just be able to play it better than them (and no, I’m not saying I’m better than top Mesmer players either.) I don’t claim to be a top player by any means, but I do claim that the more aware you are of your possibilities and surroundings, the better you will play against any class.
I also don’t want people to get the wrong idea with people everywhere believing that Mesmers will always die to a thief, when it’s simply not true. Yes, some Mesmer players may not know the tricks to battle against thieves; yes, a Thief can be their biggest concern to watch out for, but what isn’t?
The more you get better at a class and the more you learn your enemies (especially since you’ll usually see the same people most of the time in matches), you start to learn why you’re dying and how to improve. It’s not full-proof and you still will die sometimes but no one can stay alive forever.
My statements are simply for people to actually learn their class, learn their enemy’s class, and then understand how their enemy operates.
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I agreed with mostly everything besides a few engi stuff. Healing turret is fine how it is. Engis have no condi cleanse whatsoever unless they bring a utility that has it, but that severely lowers their useability. If the recharge is increased, engis will ultimately have their main lifeline severed. Furthermore, healing turret doesn’t even heal that much. 5k without healing power isn’t a lot compared to some other skills. It’s not that game breaking, and the aoe heal is helpful to teammates and actually gives them some support qualities in a team fight.
Slickshoes, yes it’s hated, but the truth is it’s not that bad. One stability is enough to get out and then continue to stay out of the engi’s trailing path. If you don’t have a stability, then you can use a blink. If you don’t have a blink, then you quite literally deserve to be slicked. I don’t see how this skill is any different than other classes’ ability to ensare.
Rangers have Entangle and your only option is condi cleanse > evade or blink. Guardian’s have Binding Blade (which is easy to save your stun break for) but in a team fight it does gather people up for a good nuke; not to mention Ring of Warding. Point is, these other skills may not be on the same level as Slick, but if you know an engi has slick shoes, it should be up to you to know how to navigate to avoid him and/or save your stun break if they knock you back and then slick around your CC’d body.
Active Super Speed is great and I wouldn’t nerf its recharge either. Engis only ever have 1 stun break and making this skill recharge longer will also severe their lifeline. Yes, Engis are able to escape death more than any other class I believe, but the changes you imposed will take all of that away and effectively lessen their usefulness by a great deal, especially in 1 vs 1s and put them under-par with other classes/builds.
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Why is this 3 month old topic being bumped? I thought they already fixed it so that swapping classes is included in the 1 minute grace period.
Did they? Can you provide a link for that? I am not sure, but it seems that every time I swap characters before match my points go down when we win. I am sick of fighting premades with having team of 3 thiefs, mesmer and ele, that’s why I always try to change to something more appropriate and help as much as possible because I would like to have some decent fights with chance to win. I have lost many points because of this, but I just don’t care, MMR and leaderboards are broken anyway…
I get tired of fighting teams with two sets of 2 classes using the exact same build or 3 rangers or 3 anything! Yes I’d like to see proof that swapping doesn’t count either. Lately I’ve been playing on Mesmer more often and I really hate when I get a team with 2 thieves or 2 rangers or both on the same team, and since I’d apparently be penalized for swapping out, I just stick on it.
To be honest, half the traits in every trait line for every class don’t do anything that matters. Grandmaster trait for +1k Healing Power when interrupting a foe? Uh, ok? Stealing recharges all skills of one type by a small chance? Uh, ok? Pet’s deal extra condition damage — how about every pet attribute increase trait?
Even in PvE it’s the same, some stuff just doesn’t matter and they are there for no reason. To me it just seems like the new system is just taking out all of those useless traits and putting all the useful traits in a smaller line. I don’t really see it being any different, I mean you’re still going to be using the most ideal traits even if there is a smaller selection.
Please share some of your ranked PvP videos, especially against good thieves.
I haven’t ever recorded my fights. I will say though that thieves with Withdraw + Roll For Initiative + S/D can give me a hard time since they’ll be evading 80% of the battle. D/P is another annoyance with the blind, but I’ve slightly learned how to handle most of those situations…
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They’re currently weak in the PvP meta and you’ll probably find it frustrating getting killed by Thieves seemingly no matter how well you play.
But don’t discourage anyone. I’ve learned how to kill thieves on mes more often than not, it’s quite easy when you learn their attack patterns. Of course thieves that know how to plan their moves ahead of time instead of just spamming 1 hoping to kill a squishy will be more trouble, but it’s still always an even battle.
It really isn’t hard to just farm dungeons for a day (or 2/3 if you don’t do Arah) to be able to afford a hairstyle kit.
Those kits to me are precious and whenever I get one I have to decide carefully who I want to use it on. I don’t want them in a reward track because it will make them too overabundant and soon everyone will have the hairs. It is about 40g or so for a hair kit and 60g for a makeover? I may be wrong but who knows.
Like you said, they are available to buy which is more than I can ask for. I’ve only purchased gems a couple of times so I’m very much glad that I can just farm gold and convert it to gems. Just farm dungeons until you get the money and you’ll be good to go!
The reason turret engineers die when you kill the turrets is because they’ve sacrificed every single utility to run turrets. No stealth, no escapes, nothing but the turrets.
Also you just described every defensive build, which is what turret engineers were.
Which is why I say again, turret engis were never good to begin with!! And they weren’t just defensive build, they were full on offense as well especially against any zerkers.
of course they hit zerker hard. everyone hits zerkers hard. the name ‘glass cannon’ doesn’t mean nothing ya’ know. turret engi is a tanky build, it just happens that zerk builds are so squishy that even tank builds do a lot of damage to them.
as someone who didn’t play zerk (cele bombs) turrets don’t hit that hard at all. never found them that hard to deal with either.
It isn’t the fact that zerkers get hit hard, it’s that “Bunkers” Aren’t supposed to kill zerkers quickly at all, sure maybe through conditions but pure damage alone would take them a bit.
Turret engis? It didn’t matter, they had crazy defense and even a crazier offense that didn’t make sense. The scale was way off. Even zerkers weren’t the only ones getting hit hard, that’s my point. Further to my point, since zerkers were the only ones able to kill their turrets in a timely matter, it made it even worse that if a zerker tried to actually get into melee range of the engi (who camps behind thumper), they would eventually get killed as it takes a while for anyone to kill an engi running around with 28k hp in a Sentinel amulet spamming CC.
Of course some builds weren’t affected by turrets, I’m not saying turret engis were invincible, but the fact that if you specced to kill them specifically, you would most likely not be that beneficial in other areas of the match.
Turrets would have been just fine if they scaled with their owner’s stats. But the problem was that they had their own, meaning that the Engi could run with max tough/vit gear and still do more damage than most.
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…a Mesmer in your team uses the signet-heal
Countless is using this. I wouldn’t say he is an auto lose for your team. ;-)
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mesmer_-_Condition_Clone_Death
it is vs any decent player with half brain…and 3.75 – 4.75 out of 5 just confirms how bad and worthless metabattle is roflmao
nothing new anyway…
I laughed — no I didn’t. I don’t know how many bad experiences you’ve had, but me myself, the build I uses focuses on that signet for duplicating my last clone.
I kill “decent players with half a brain” commonly. Yes, there are hard counters like with any other class and build out there, but I can say for sure the Signet isn’t the cause of a Mesmer being a hindrance to a team.
And to add to this post because it just happened:
-When you get downed, 2 allies are right next to you and 1 ones off while the other just watches you while 1 person strolls along and stomps you.
The reason turret engineers die when you kill the turrets is because they’ve sacrificed every single utility to run turrets. No stealth, no escapes, nothing but the turrets.
Also you just described every defensive build, which is what turret engineers were.
Which is why I say again, turret engis were never good to begin with!! And they weren’t just defensive build, they were full on offense as well especially against any zerkers.
If you actually enjoyed playing on a turret engi, then go right ahead and keep using it. The only difference now is that you don’t have a ridiculous lifeline that allows you to stay alive against 3 people at a time while running around on a point. It’s only more sad to see how everyone completely ditched Turrets now that they have a vulnerability like all other classes — it shows the true colors of the people that used to play on them.
I haven’t fought one turret engi within the last 3 days of active pvping. Sad part is I’ve encountered double if not triple the amount of shoutbows — talk about moving to the next ridiculous build that 3/5 of teams on average are composed of. It’s quite sad.
The reason they stopped using turrets wasn’t because they are suddenly balanced with the other professions. it’s because they are now free kills to literally anyone. The turrets don’t have the survivability to last longer than a couple seconds against any kind of pressure, and placing the turrets in unique spots only saves them for a few more seconds so long as the opponent doesn’t have any kind of ranged damage.
So now they are a bunker build that is only effective on certain points on certain maps against opponents who have absolutely no range at all. In other words they are completely non-viable in any form of PVP. They also no longer have the boon production they relied on for survival and their heal skill can be immediately killed with auto attack cleave by accident, so they don’t even have innate sustain beyond their toughness and vitality stats.
The turrets are actually dying faster than necro minions. The big difference there is necro minions can actually move out of AoE. Turrets just die.
I don’t have any sympathy for turret engis because of this. Goes to show how their turrets were doing all the work against multiple enemies and still killing them. The moment everyone else has a chance to kill the turrets, they are useless. Which goes back to my previous statement: no one played on turret engis because they were good, they did it because they generally didn’t die and killed in the process.
Any build that is able to do what turret engis did were fine. The fact of the matter is that people began to abuse it going with 2, 3+ turret engis on one team and completely shattering the purpose of PvP in the first place — it became PvEvCC. Now as I stated, more and more people are going on shoutbows because it’s the next most ridiculous thing to jam pack into a team..
Lol power ranger may be cheap and looked down upon but it definitely isn’t a bad build. Against teams that don’t know how to focus ranger, and on maps that are heavily inclined towards sniping spots, power ranger can kill easily. If you’re a power ranger that literally spams 2, doesn’t dodge, swaps to gs and uses 5 without even being near enemy, using signet of stone before you actually take any damage, then yes – you’re holding your team back.
However, if you actually know how to play besides spamming 2, then you can propel your team forward just like any other person playing that actually knows how to play.
Ignore what everyone else says about Mesmers being bad or not good for beginners. When I first started truly pvping, Mesmer was the first one I chose and was also the first Champion title I achieved. To this day, my Mesmer still has more wins than all other other 7 classes’ wins combined. I played Engi for a while and still do and it’s the only one that came close to the amount of wins as my mes.
If you learn what to and not to do; where and where not to place your phantasms; who you can and cannot fight; it will allow you to be a great Mesmer. Thieves are no longer a “hard counter” for me, they are actually quite easy because now when I see a thief on other team, I mentally prepare myself. Expect at any moment to be hit by about half your health snatched, stunned, and possibly immobilized as well.
Most thieves see you’re a squishy class and think it’s a free win. If you’re quick on the draw, it doesn’t take long to use a stun break right after they first hit you, stealth and then set up your phantasms. Most thieves can’t actually sustain in a head to head fight and will die soon after.
Most of them have the same pattern and once you learn it, it’s easy to avoid it. Half the time you get caught off guard, it’s still possible to recover and win (just depends how far your brain was wandering at the point of getting ganked).
One word of advice, don’t be the person that “plays easy classes to get a hang of the game.” If you like a class, I suggest you play it and learn it. “Easy” classes are cheap and they may be effective in most cases, but they still are, in my eyes, lame when everyone and their mamas are using it just because it’s easy. (No offense to mamas)
I was a bad Mesmer at first until I fought a guild member that was playing very well and I learned how to use the environment to my advantage. Mesmers can’t always fight well on a point (unless they’re condi perhaps but all the going invis may eventually lose them the point they’re on) but they sure can make someone else run off of it.
Mesmer rocks. Just start small. Ignore the people that say shatter or die. Ease into the class with forgiving specs such as condition pu move to power pu. Then gradually change over pieces to become a bursty spec in pvp/wvw. Mesmer is a boss class. Become feared on your wvw home world!!
Now I know you’re tolling.. No one and I mean NO ONE fears a Mesmer..
Seriously other classes can accomplish what a Mesmer can do in half the time with minimal deaths, but if you like pain with little reward then the Mesmer class is for you. I would not start any crafting or sink gold into soulbounds until you truly think this trash class is for you.. Oh and get used to being kicked from groups just because of your class.. (got a portal?). I would try other classes just to compare and you will see for yourself.
Oh LOOK OUT!!! Here comes NecroN’s Mesmer.. Haahaa OMG thats a good one… Thanks I needed that laugh.
That made me laugh pretty hard (not really). I’m assuming everything you’re talking about is in PvE because in PvP, a good mesmer can do what other classes can do “in half the time.” All classes serve purposes and just because another class —- no, build — can do something quicker doesn’t mean it’s better.
In PvE, mesmers may not deal a lot of damage compared to wars/thieves/eles, but they also have much more utility. A heck of a lot of condi cleanse for the whole party, boon removal for many mobs or bosses that may have some annoying boon on, and not to mention quickly rotated reflects. Defiance removal, CCing and hello! Time warp?
Any party that kicks you because you’re a Mesmer are either mentally kittened or only sees ZERKER ZERKER MAX DAMAGE as the only way to play through a fricken dungeon. While they’re at it, I’ll bet they wiped 3 times in the process.
Don’t let anyone tell you that a Mesmer isn’t good unless it’s a specific situation where you can judge for yourself whether or not they are not exactly beneficial to certain places. Don’t let anyone tell you anything bad about a class until you experience it yourself and find out for yourself. Most people that claim things are bad are people that look at “all the pros” and think that only meta builds or classes work. Those are people you should feel sorry for.
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Having double ferocities makes a big difference especially when you have enough time to get them. One stomp is equal to two stomps, 5 stomps will be equal to 11 and so on. Doubt you can actually get that many stomps before the buff runs out, but that’s beside the point. People that see some map functions as useless can easily and quickly turn matches around without you even having enough time to realize it.
To OP, no. If you have a good team that can manage between the other 2 points, then holding one point is a good idea. If you joined them then it would just be called zerging and you’d most likely lose that match if the other team was actually smart.
I just posted this in other thread but it’s an experienced I just had:
“I literally had a guy go on and on about how I double capped home (two people standing on the point instead of just 1) at the beginning of a match, and claimed that he “saw it clearly.”
What really happened? I went home, a ranger went to the beast (Forest map) and a thief ganked the ranger, so the ranger backed up and I went down to help him after I capped the point. What did that guy claim he saw? I have no idea, but I do know that for the rest of the match he was spewing non sense and becoming a useless entity for the duration of the match because apparently he was so good that he refused to actively try because people on his team “double capped home.”
As you can see, some people just aren’t healthy in the brain area and no matter how much they try to defame you, they only make themselves look stupid in the process.
Having top score doesn’t mean you’re good, but it does mean you’re doing something right. However, the lowest score can also be doing things right. A lot of times I don’t stay around to cap points if I’m helping out a teammate in a 2 vs 1, I just let them cap it and go on. I also don’t stomp them so most of the times my score is the lowest because I’m only getting assist points and nothing else.
Score literally means nothing but it can be and is an indicator of your activity through the match.
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“Did you just give me constructive advice? Time to go afk, gl.” “Did someone on my team just lose a 1 vs 1? Time to go afk, gl.” “Did someone just go far when they should have helped mid? Time to go afk, gl.”
There are constantly these types of people in pvp and what they fail to realize is that they are the handicap for the other people.
I literally had a guy go on and on about how I double capped home (two people standing on the point instead of just 1) at the beginning of a match, and claimed that he “saw it clearly.”
What really happened? I went home, a ranger went to the beast (Forest map) and a thief ganked the ranger, so the ranger backed up and I went down to help him after I capped the point. What did that guy claim he saw? I have no idea, but I do know that for the rest of the match he was spewing non sense and becoming a useless entity for the duration of the match because apparently he was so good that he refused to actively try because people on his team “double capped home.”
You can’t fix stupid. My only problem is that people that go afk need to just leave so the rest of their team will at least not be penalized with a loss just because they decided to go afk for reasons stated above. A simple “report for leeching” is all that needs to be done. It’s not even abusable because usually the people that want to report someone are in agreeance with the rest of their team about wanting to kick someone out.
Sure, go afk if it’s 50-300 and you see the rest of your team is just doing nothing but running into 1 vs 4 constantly. But going afk just because you feel better than the rest of the people on your team and they do something that you don’t like? That’s sad.
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Because of the way this pvp is setup, I don’t think there will ever be diversity. It’s still going to be the same setups of teams. You’ll have someone spiking, you’ll have someone bunking, and that’s about all there is to it.
In GW1, the concept was a simple push and pull — you would try to wait till the other team was low on energy to give it all you got, then if they countered, you had to go on defensive until you’re all recharged for the next spike.
On here, get a team of 2 bunkers and 3 spikers well coordinated and that’s about it. This concept won’t change from the way I see it, which means the new builds will eventually trickle down to “useless” status once more when you realize that there are only a few viable selections to go with if you want to be of any use.
Could really say the same about any spike build; fresh air ele for instance, if they are on high alert they are able to survive a while if their attunements are properly rotated and also deliver crazy spikes. Their tradeoff is getting squished when not prepared. Mesmers have it no easier and have less survivability. Classes that trait heavily into spike-related kills aren’t a problem because they are killed just as quick. In a 2 vs 1 a spike-build will always lose. 1 vs 1 however, that’s just an unfortunate match up and you should just avoid them.
Turret engis on the other hand were the complete opposite. They dealt spike-worthy damage if all their turrets were overcharged and also spammed CCs like crazy, not to mention gaining pretty much every boon from each turret. Half the time while you were trying to pick their turrets off (would be impossible for condi), you’d be getting dead or useless because while you spent all that time, the engi was still holding the point getting pips/per sec.
There are two sides to the first 3 minutes. Don’t assume yours is the only one going down the drain. If you fail to win the mid fight and get wiped, it’s not instantly over. Half the time, the other team that won mid will get kitteny and automatically assume they’ve won, reducing their try-hard by a certain amount.
They’ll begin to zerg your home if they’re stupid. This point is what truly determines the match. Will you run to home and go straight in to a 1 vs 3? Or will you wait for the rest of your team to spawn and then zerg home 4/5 vs 3.
Most of the time those zergers on the other side get way in over their head and attempt to run if they don’t have solid footing (especially since if they won mid, it was most likely due to some type of bunker, which they no longer have because they left their bunker to try to zerg your home.
Now if you actually trump those home rushers in that 4 or 5 vs 3, then you effectively reduce the enemy team to 2 vs 5 for about 5~10 seconds. At which point you should zerg mid while one person holds home.
These are scenarios in which you or your team can actually kill someone on the other team. It’s about a 50/50. If you know tactics, then you can tell your team. If your team actually takes your advice to heart instead of taking it as an insult and replying with “kitten, it’s already over,” then you stand a greater chance at succeeding.
Learn these tactics and don’t die within 3 minutes and then give up. There have been quite a few matches where we were 200 points to 400, but the other team got extremely kitteny and were zerging around — until we zerged them back and wiped their team outside of our spawn gate. At which point one capped home, one uncapped far, and the rest solidified mid.
They were caught off guard and too stupid to realize what mistake they’d just made, and were never able to regroup properly and ended up splitting up to no avail because a triple decap was going on.
Like I said, don’t assume you’re losing just because you died. If you get a bad team that literally can’t win a group fight nor a 1 vs 1 and are at 50pts to 350pts, then sure, give up if you want. Just know that half of matches are mind games and a lot of people don’t know how to play them, especially when the moment a team gets knocked off balance, they begin to blame the rest of their team and start arguing for the duration of the match.
Don’t ever assume the team you’re going against is all peachy and coordinated because that’s just setting yourself up to fail.
-Also, and this is important. When you see that you aren’t winning a fight – RUN AWAY. Don’t stay there and die because you’ll just give the other team 5 points and reduce our team to 4 vs 5 for 12 secs. If you see everyone is going down in mid and you have no way to res or the other team is still at max hp, be the smart one and RUN AWAY from the fight and go uncap far. Don’t just stand there and get wiped while the person at home has to be 1 vs 5 for 10 seconds.
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Now all they need to do is nerf stealth and Mesmers similarly and we’d have a game.
A good mesmer can kill you within 10 seconds; a better player can easily learn when to dodge and know when to disengage the mesmer and kill the phantasms first. An even better mesmer knows to place the clones in a place that will require the enemy to leave the point in order to kill them (assuming they don’t have ranged).
Mesmers don’t need a nerf. If you are talking about shatter builds then I find them no more of a problem than any other class. One dodge or stun break and their shatter is wasted, be weary of their clones — if they are close to you then the shatter will be instant, keep a distance and when you see them running to you just dodge towards them and crisis averted.
No one played on turret engis because they were good. They played on them because quite the opposite. They wanted free wins, whether or not they knew how to play well. Now that Turrets can be killed by things other than smart zerkers w/ ranged that actually was able to fight on a point against one, no one is using them.
People only use the next “easy” thing. In this pvp environment, the way turrets were, they were game-breaking. No other class that has AI-controlled summons did anything near what turret engis did. Mesmers have phantasms but no where near the survivability. Liches (Necros) have a thousand things following them around and it makes it inconvenient to target them sometimes but they are ultimately all useless.
Turrets on the other hand dealt heavy damage to light and medium, and CC’d any weight a ridiculous amount of times way too often. If you weren’t on zerker and used ranged weps to target most smartly-placed turrets, then you effectively were useless against a turret engi (a good one anyway but I found it hard to pair “good” with turret builds).
If you actually enjoyed playing on a turret engi, then go right ahead and keep using it. The only difference now is that you don’t have a ridiculous lifeline that allows you to stay alive against 3 people at a time while running around on a point. It’s only more sad to see how everyone completely ditched Turrets now that they have a vulnerability like all other classes — it shows the true colors of the people that used to play on them.
I haven’t fought one turret engi within the last 3 days of active pvping. Sad part is I’ve encountered double if not triple the amount of shoutbows — talk about moving to the next ridiculous build that 3/5 of teams on average are composed of. It’s quite sad.
After reaching Rank 80 after about 8 months perhaps of casual pvping, I can say first hand that by the time someone actually gets to 80, they most likely won’t exactly feel like playing anymore without a good break from the game.
There isn’t really a problem with winning some and losing some especially if you’re in solo-q. The real solution is for the matchmaking to stop putting 2/3 players with the exact same build on the exact same team.
3 shoutbows, 3 power nec, 3 power rangers, 3 guardians – etc. One out of three matches I participate in have this same setup with the exact same builds. If just one person on your team isn’t also using the lame default builds as the other team, you already have a high chance of losing.
slit
Indeed it is just benefiting pre-mades and pre-mades only. Can’t believe they’re putting so much emphasis on stopping “Build Wars,” yet they don’t even realize that Build Wars 2 is living right beneath them.
I can’t even truly have fun anymore in PvP solely because even against other SoloQers, they’re all just using Shoutbow, D/D Ele, Lich (are they even necros anymore? would be much more fitting to just call them Liches seeing as it’s always 2+ on the same team nowadays), Medi guard.
Though the claim that “mesmer sucks in spvp” isn’t true, it really makes some classes completely useless because there is no random aspect whatsoever to this horrible matchmaking system. In Guild Wars 1, you won because you played well and smart with your team; not because you were simultaneously abusing builds with the rest of your team. Even though more and more people started “syncing,” the best anyone could do on average was get 2 players in the same match and that wasn’t necessarily are game breaking event.
Now everyone is using literally the same build. I can’t tell you how tired I am of seeing shoutbow warriors every single match. There are 8 classes yet 4 of them are being abused; Shoutbow Warriors, Liches, Medi Guards and D/D eles.
What about the other 4 classes? I find it quite sad that now that turrets have become vulnerable, I see no turret engi whatsoever and only a couple grenade/bomb engis if anything.
I don’t have a problem with thieves, they are what they are. I never see many mesmers even though they can quickly turn the tides. I truly don’t have a problem with rangers because if there’s just 1, they serve their purpose and go down quickly if focused. I do have a problem when 3 are on one team (I was literally just on a team with 3 rangers, solo-q…). And then there’s engis, like I said, since turret nerf, I haven’t fought against one yet.
Now if you want to cure Build Wars by penalizing people that want to actually balance their team out, all you’re doing is curing the population of populace. I’ve always been one to not necessarily follow “meta” builds (there aren’t enough combinations for anything to be considered meta to be honest), but there really is no point in actually playing the game when I want to play on a class I enjoy, but quite literally become a hindrance to my team just because the other team is abusing the same builds (premade and solo-q with very bad matchmaking as well, which is all too common).
(edited by Ashern.5328)
What I don’t understand is this: People are apparently penalized for swapping classes, yet there is absolutely no punishment when a full premade team with 4 bunkers and a zerker are running around against solo queue-ers. Just before this last engi update, they were so commonly teams with 3+ turret engis.
How is this fair? I can’t swap my class but they can create some lame team comp that can’t die because there’s constantly 2 or 3 bunkers on the same point spamming fear and knockbacks? More importantly, if the matchmaking is supposed to be so righteous, exactly how come its letting pre-made teams run cheese comps, let alone against solo-queuers?
So if I feel like playing a class because I enjoy it, but know that it can’t do anything against a team of full bunkers, instead of switching to something more suitable to bring down tank builds, I have to just suck it up and say better luck next time?
There was literally a team of 5 power rangers the other day. They lost, but that’s beside the point. Over 30 “Evades” popped up when I dodged ONCE. Can you imagine all the rapid firing going on? I don’t get how premade teams can do whatever they want, and the opposing solo-queuer team can do nothing about it lest they be punished. And even though they lost, it didn’t make the match any more enjoyable.
If it was a normal team comp premade and they were actually good, then that’s just good for them. But if it’s a premade team comp that literally only wins because they’re all abusing the same build on one point, I have a problem with that if I can’t do a single thing to counter it after the match is created.
It goes back to the days of Guild Wars 1 when there was Team Arena. It would always be something like 3 Ride the Lightning eles and one monk, all synchronized and spiking one target. The upside to that was if you were in team arena, you most likely too were synchronized if not playing as a team.
Here? The same thing is going on. I don’t have a problem if solo-queuers go up against premades. My problem is that they can set up their team comp with whatever abusive non-sense they like and still be allowed in the match. Meanwhile, Solo-Qs have to sit back and accept whatever the mess team they are put with. 3 Thieves a mes and an engi? Alright! 3 Guards and 2 wars? That works too!
Not everyone has a group of people to play with at every given time, so basically Ranked Arena is just pre-made or goodluck? If solo-Qers are able to swich their char during the warmup, what difference does that make compared to a premade team of 3 Shoutbow warriors, a guard and a fresh air ele? Or don’t forget 3 power necros (lich*3) and 2 bunkers!
It’s completely ridiculous. If there’s going to be a penalty, then why isn’t the MMR better? What’s funny is this system encourages more rage quits because they get one look at the other premade team and see completely trumps their own, and the minute they die once and start losing – quit.
The problem isn’t turret engis; the problem is people are spamming them because “easy,” and because they value wins more than their dignity. One turret engi? They’re just another slot in the team just like anyone else. Two turret engis? Now things quickly become unbalanced…why?
Consider some things. First of all, a team with 2 of the same classes running the exact same build is a problem no matter what class it is, especially if that team is actually coordinated — and even if they aren’t coordinated, if they’re all zerk, all they need to know is how to focus targets.
Second of all, if these two same classes aren’t zerk, but in fact full bunker, that’s another problem. I’ve fought teams with 2 shoutbows on one point while 3 zerkers were zerging around killing everyone. Yes, part of that problem would lie on the other team in question because they don’t know how to rotate, but it still doesn’t change the fact that two classes spamming the same build for double the effects is a bit unfair unless your team is perfectly organized with solutions for every enemy team (which is hardly ever the case when you’re solo-qing and half the time when you’re even in a premade team).
Now add 2+ turret engis to that one team and the effects are amplified. Not only can they hold the point for 3 years, but they also have the survivability to sustain 2, 3 and sometimes even 4 vs 1 until their team of zerkers comes and nukes everyone. I can guarantee that the team of turret engis are holding 2 points at all times (unless of course they’re just bad players, but that’s beside the point).
Picture this, one turret engi on point A soloing against 3 people. Another turret on point B soloing against 2 people. That means the turret engis’ team of 3 zerkers zerging around will always be equally matched and nuking everyone while they’re going between points.
Everyone saying they can “solo turret engis easily” are just fine. Congratulations, your build is suited specifically to kill turret engis. Now what about everyone else? As has been said, 1 turret engi is just another slot, but it seems you’re missing the point
How long does it take you to kill a turret engi? While you’re fighting them, are they on the point while you’re off it? If your team is ahead in points, then you have the leisure of just picking the turret engis off by spamming condis or ranged weps, but if your team is losing, you’re not helping. All you’re doing is standing around attacking a literal bot while they are getting pips of points. Most of the time while you’re spending your years killing that engi, you will soon be zerged by the rest of their team. Turret engis can 1 vs 1, but their most important utility it to stay on the point until their team comes.
If you have 2 of these “utilities” on one team, where is the balance? How is it fair for 2 points to be held while the other team members are just zerging around? If your team can kill the turret engis, that’s great; I’ve had teams able to kill them and make them look stupid.
If oone turret engi can sustain 2+ vs 1 at any given time, add the other 3 of their team members in. Even if you’re 5 vs 4, your chances of actually winning aren’t any greater.
I’ll say again, the problem isn’t any one turret engi, it’s that more and more (and I seriously mean more and more) turret engis are appearing each day; whether they’re lifeless thralls that don’t know how to pvp, so they take the easy way out; trolls playing them for the sake of making people angry; or people that generally like to play turret engi, it doesn’t change the fact that the utility they bring to the team is on a high level, and it shouldn’t be fair for it to be duplicated just because they want to take the shameful way out. I literally started a match against 2 turret engis, and then watched as one of their other team members swapped to a 3rd turret engi.
Like others have said, if their turrets actually gained the users’ stats, things would be simple. You want to be a bunker? Ok. You want to spam CCs? Ok, guess what, you won’t deal any damage. You want to be zerk so your turrets can hit hard? Well then you’ll be glass along with them. As it stands, there is no compromise in a turret engi’s build. They lose utility slots, big whoop. When all they have to do is run around in a circle until their enemies die, I wouldn’t say that’s a loss. Engis by nature have high survivability, but a bunker one is ridiculous considering they are still killing people in 1v1+ while retaining all aspects of a bunker.
I’ve been pvping more and enjoying it more, but the entire experience is ruined when I go up against teams of 2+ turret engis more than 4 times a day. Sometimes I get teams that can handle them; more often than not, I get teams that can’t. I play engi a lot and never once have I used turret, because it’s a horrible build that ultimately ruins PvP because so many people flock to it just because they think they’ll win with it.
With the latest major patch, whenever I stand in the Heart of the Mists near the vendors and at the bottom of the stairs (where most people gather at), my CPU spikes to 70~90% usage. My fans turn up and start blowing really loud and I don’t know what’s going on.
I haven’t been to a great deal of many places since the patch, but I do know it doesn’t happen even Lion’s Arch and dungeons. When I stand near the training area of HoTM, my cpu usage goes back to normal. The moment I step into that initial HoTM area, my fans crank up instantly.
Is anyone else getting this or can explain why this is going on? My settings are on max, with character limit set to Lowest. I set my graphics to Best Performance just to test, and ‘lo and behold there were no CPU spikes (although it still did go a bit higher than standing elsewhere.) I realize there are more people gathered in that area that would cause this to happen, but then what is the Character Limit for if it’s not meant to hide vast amounts of players from being rendered?
I’ve had the game for almost 6 months, playing with best settings all the while, and oddly enough, the only time my fans have ever revved up this loud was at Tequatl. Sadly, even when I did Tequatl on max settings + max character limit, it still wasn’t as loud as it is when I step into the first area of HoTM. What’s wrong? Are one of the graphic settings not working as intended? My Frame Rate doesn’t change, only my cpu usage and it’s annoying me to say the least because I hate hearing my PC rev up when it shouldn’t be.
I don’t know why it’s doing this, but it started today. My internet is fine, and hasn’t been disconnecting at all. However, when I’m in game, maps may fail to load, saying things such as failed to access the login server, or it’ll just stay loading the map forever. If it’s not a dc, then the client will hang — all characters currently running on the screen will just keep running straight, I cannot activate any skills, even though what I do press is activated once the game resumes from the hang.
The game plays fine within the 5 minutes or in between the hangs, so it’s not my ping either. It’s getting on my nerves, and it’s caused me to miss some events because I get disconnected and most likely pushed to an instance that has already killed the boss when I re-log. Am I the only one experiencing this?
(edited by Ashern.5328)
I just recently started getting into WvW, and found it a very enjoyable experience. Then about a week after the tournament started, I noticed the population of my server’s WvW community dipped. Now it’s only a few of us on EB or BL at any given moment. If we get lucky, a zerg comes online and helps out. Other than that, we spend hours upgrading and fortifying, and it only takes minutes for one zerg to clean us off the map in both BL and EB (at the same time for that matter).
It crossed my mind how crazy this was, and it also crossed my mind that if one server doesn’t have that many players in the map at that moment, then another server shouldn’t be allowed to have 10x the amount of players on the map from their server.
A tournament is supposed to be about teamwork and, not necessarily “skill,” but coordination and planning. What is fair about spending all day planning defenses, only to be wiped off the map whenever an extremely populated server decides they don’t like your server’s color on their map? And yes, I say “their” map, because that’s exactly what it seems like. I looked on the map and saw one server’s entire BL untouched, 95% of the EB map in their color, and 80% of their color in our own BL. If you think I’m telling a story, next time I will take a picture.
You shouldn’t be able to win only because you’re able to throw numbers at a wall or gate; it makes the WvW for a smaller server incredibly useless to play. I truly had fun defending towers from equal-numbered zergs, and it didn’t make me want to drop out of the game whenever they made it inside and captured it — it was just time to launch a counter strike. But when you have 5 people at your tower — and quite honestly, on the entire map — and you look out and see a 40+-man zerg coming around, you just don’t feel like playing anymore.
Do you know why? It’s not because you hate losing; it’s because at that moment — at that very moment, you realize that all the time, money, and love that you spent upgrading and looking out for your side, doesn’t mean a thing, because that zerg is going to stomp on it all like they’re making wine.
I’m no sore loser, but come on, what is the incentive of playing if I’m gonna be spending my gold to upgrade, and my time to watch over the towers, if none of it matters? I have no desire to transfer to a highly populated server, because quite frankly, I don’t care about winning. Mowing downs towers and keeps isn’t even fun to me unless it’s a fair fight with near equal numbers. For the max pop’d servers, I’m glad you have an active WvW community and the numbers required to get things done. Now, with that said, what about everyone else?
As a suggestion, what if when people tag up as commander, a ring appears around them on the map like Commander Siegerazer. Now, if this server is going up against another server that has much lower numbers, then everyone inside that commander ring would receive some kind of debuff if a certain amount of people were to enter that ring. Nothing major, but something that would allow the low-population server to take advantage of.
Maybe any siege deployed while you have the debuff on takes twice as much damage, or anything along those lines. Or perhaps you deal 50% less damage to supervisors and lords. And there would also need to be something in place to ensure that commanders still have a purpose for tagging up, so they won’t tag down to bypass this feature. On the other hand, a commander from the low-pop server could receive a buff when a much smaller amount of players enter the ring. And if the servers are balanced, then no buff or debuff is applied. Basically the Outnumbered, but much more viable.
(edited by Ashern.5328)