Guild Wars 2

Ohoni.6057

Your opinion, not relevant.

good summarize for all your posts

there are many people loving raids as they are, without tiered difficulties.

maybe you should accept that you’re not the only person on this planet and that not everyone has to like what you like.

you claim “everything for everyone” which is wrong on so many levels.
you know, different people like different things. so there are many different parts in this game.
you can’t create “everything for everyone”, as you can simply see since here are responses (and not too few) that do NOT like what you like, so your idea would NOT BE FOR EVERYONE.
your idea is entirely egoistic.

but who am i writing to… someone that posts 24/7 instead of playing the game.
i guess you found your endgamecontent

Blaeys.3102

Unfortunately, imo, Anet went into that discussion having already decided what raids in GW2 would look like

good, because if they would always listen to some people that dislike something others like and would try to appeal to every customer with all of the content they create, that would be horrible!

they create content for everyone – that does not mean that all content is for everyone, it means that there is content for everyone.

arenanet created raids because many players asked for challenging content.

there is content for pvp’ers, there is content for ppl that want to enjoy pvp in a large-environment (wvw) there is content for open world fans, there is content for small groups and there is content for casual guilds etcetcetc.

there is content for EVERYONE. but there was no challenging content (besides creating yourself a challenge by doing something in a hard way – like dungeons. those were a little challenging at release, but you could simply play 5 super tanky bearbow rangers to solve them without any effort, only speedrunning/soloing them was a challenge).

thats why raids got implemented. because players asked for it and it was missing in the game. they asked for content where you can’t simply put on a “easy mode” and 111 all enemies down.
it maybe wasn’t you that asked (obviously…), but many others.

sorry, but your attitude is a little bit egoistic. not everything has to be the way YOU like it. there are other people playing gw2 too, not everyone likes the same things

making all content appeal to everyone is nearly impossible. some will always like it, some will always dislike it. thats why they create different content that appeals to different players.

Hypairion

and, yes, the shinies are, for some people (but not all) what is driving them to easy mode raid (but they won’t admit it ^^)

of course^^
its easier to mimimi on the forums than putting some effort into getting a better player

Astralporing.1957

Nope. Easy mode would be separate.The existing content would not change even the tiniest bit.

how exactly the existence of a seperate easy mode would not change the existing content?^^

though, i admit to 100% with you, that for those who do not like a challenge there is no repeatable content besides fractals to play which feels rewarding (besides having fun) at the moment.

even the existent raids are not rewarding you after playing it the first time a week (the “having-fun-reward” excluded). but i would just give it some time. while there is already much beautiful content in gw2, im sure the future will reveal beautiful new adventures for all of us

Blaeys.3102

The issue with raids in their current form, imo, really is that they discourage playstyle diversity

yeah. they discourage lazy playstyles such as fulltank, and encourage players to improve their playstyle and get better.

if you want to practice raids… go into the raids and practice!

or practice in other game modes by playing something that is not faceroll. do some solodungeons or other fun stuff that improves your playstyle. basically you can play anything and create yourself a challenge. play open world without wearing a armor – or whatever :P

the new swamp is fun!

if you can’t make it through t4 fractals – do it on a lower tier. there is a reason they are there.
no reason to hate on the forums…

Simba.6732

I do have every single achievement, but this sucks towards other players who try and get the achievement and could die at the last few percent of the boss and not get the reward which would suck tbh.

different ways people react to failing something:

most ppl get maybe a little angry then, and shout “dmned, i should’ve dodged that” or “nooooo, now i have to try again -.-” – mostly not even being seriously angry. or they go to the forums “someone got advice how to do that achievement?” or if its a really impossible achievement compared to others “is the achievement too hard in general?”

others start flaming “pff, noob druid heal better” or they go to the forums “this sucks, no logic, stupid”

sorry, but i definitely prefer the first ones and i dont think there is any reason to bother with the second ones.

Simba.6732

Oh, if I die at 5% while doing an achievement, I should not be awarded? What stupid logic is this?

so, you guys think you should achieve the achievement without achieving it?

is this the next level of the “i want rewards without doing what you get rewards for” thing?

Jerus.4350

I’m a little confused by this back and forth. Is someone suggesting that you can’t play whatever you want in fractals? Because, you can, no skill or family of skills is required. You don’t actually need blinds, you don’t need heals or condi damage, or anything. There are plenty of ways to do fractals and that includes the new ones.

its maybe a bit confusing that he stated “need to succeed”, because i was talking about a good team not a team that simply wants to do the content no matter how good.

well, i did not really read that he wrote “need to succeed”, because you could basically do everything with any teamcomposition, that also includes raids!
people did raids with 10 rangers, or 10 guards. still, the rest of what i wrote is still true, if you look onto a good team-composition.

however, its quite obvious that its not the best option to go with for example 10 guards (at the moment atleast, who knows what the future brings )

only because it is “possible to do content” with a team composition, it does not mean that it is a good teamcomposition.

Zhaid Zhem.6508

I mean you shouldn’t need in particular a chrono boons, a rev FoN or thing like that to succed, just mechanics most of classes can do, blind, might, reflection, range …

that would destroy any class diversity ^^
it would result in people playing the highest dps classes only
(5 eles, 5 thieves, depending on how large the hitbox is and how long the fight is atm.)

you would have to make all classes the same. mesmer portals for everyone, or no portals at all, EVERYTHING. classes would only differ in visual effects.
no class diversity —> no need for classes at all.

balancing everything so EVERYTHING can do EVERYTHING on the same level, while keeping up class diversity, is a really tough thing. and in NO online game so far that contains different classes, characters, whatever, they were able to do that. why? because its nearly impossible (again, impossible if you want to keep up diversity :P)

i hope i made obvious why that suggestion should not be solved the way you say ^^

Zhaid Zhem.6508

I’m not talking about playing unproductive set or build, just you should not need alacrity, banner or any particular buff

but exactly that is the point my friend.

there are offensive options (banner of discipline, alacrity, quickness, gol etc), and there are defensive options (more stuns, stability, protection, all that stuff)

the better you become, the less defensive options you need, and the more offensive options you can take until you reach a point where you die. depending on how good you are that point is higher or lower

Jerus.4350

If a Magi’s Druid is not a healing buff bot then I don’t know what is.

its also not suggested meta

you play magi’s if you are training/learning raids with your group. if you are getting better with your group, you wont need the extra healing/vitality —> you get to “harder” builds --> you play your druid on berserker or viper.

every class got its role, and the role + meta is changing often. just get up all classes, or atleast a few of them

there are no healers or buff bot’s as you call them.
if you feel like you are a “buff-bot” with any class, you are doing it wrong.

every class/build got dps rotations and things you do in order to make your team better, which you mix with your buffing and which can be trained to perfection, making it far away from a buff bot.

runeblade.7514

Which is better?

Benefit the very very small minority of speedrunners of wasted content vs. Benefit a majority of New players to make the leveling experience better?

the majority of new players got 95% of the content (open world, wvw, pvp and all the other stuff) to experience the game in a easy and friendly environment.

to benefit the – insert however small or big amount – of speedrunners and players that like dungeons and already played all the “one-time-play-to-learn-the-game-easy-content” is from my point of view waaaaaaaaaaaay better same counts for raids.

raids, dungeons and fractals are imo the only “endgamecontent” parts of the game, where you get when you learned how to play (more or less, huehuehue)

why would you make even more parts part of the “learn-how-to-play” part?

every game needs its endgame content, and if you like it or not, dungeons are endgamecontent (any experienced player will say now “pff, waay to easy” but as i said, speedrunning them is still fun)

thats why they created raids, to give players that learned how to play a place to be.

after the spec update etc. dungeons just became pretty easy, while raids got implemented, which makes dungeon still a good stepping stone towards them.

fractals are supposed to be the next stepping stones which is somewhere between raids and dungeons, and they are trying to make t4 fractals a bit harder, so the gap between fractals and raids is not that big (atleast thats what you can read on latest development quotes)

Zhaid Zhem.6508

I love fractals due to diversity of pug compo and builds, and shorts scenes

well, fractals (and dungeons) were way harder in the past. since the spec update etc. they became really easy even for bad teamcomps. i think the move towards favouring good teamcomps and players is a good thing.

Zhaid Zhem.6508

Make fractals a DPS race, like raids or farm, isn’t a sane idea.

dude, its a game where you have to deal dmg to enemies in order to succeed.

its just natural that in EVERY part of the content there is a dps race while avoiding to die, just some are not that good players yet, so they play even through easy content with tanky stats because they can’t survive otherwise, take longer for it because for the easy part of the content you dont need to be good in order to simply DO it.

for the harder part of the content, its just right that you have to become a better player.
and they are moving the content towards that.

Tentonhammr.7849

And now that two braincells are required, they’re not used to it so they resist the change.

ranting is easier than using two braincells

some ppl are just like “log in, loot, log off”

and some of them rant about that they can’t get all the loot without putting more effort into it

dungeons are still fun to speedrun.
please dont change them

sorry OP, but its not class discrimination, its class diversity

only because you were able to do all the other content somehow, it does not mean you did it GOOD.

you maybe did for example arah path 3 in 30min+ (maybe with 5 warriors^^), while a good team takes 6-8min in a casual run (mes-thief-war-ele-ele, usually)

raids are supposed to be content where you NEED to be good

they even open new tables, with the enrage timer you can even make a fun of playing usually really bad builds (full nomads) in order to “withstand” the phase after the enrage timer is over.

so you can play it with with any composition you want, if you play it GOOD.
dont even need to be that good, they are really really forgiving.
and being good can be trained, some may take a bit longer, some maybe get it faster.

Draco.9480

unrealistic crap. what about encounter mechanics? how a ps warrior can do over 20k? how come necro is one of the lowest and still do better than others in raids?
an ele will never do over 35k vs boss. what about dodging, positioning, healing, changing targets, moving, phasing and etc? i’ll cut my veins if a warrior will do 20k dps ina boss raid.
again zis will lead to toxic.
math in the void!

/resign

you are pointing out obvious things (necro dps can’t be measured that good due to high dps increase with epidemic swapping etc)

while other things are not true (war dps can get on 20k, ele dps can get over 35k on a large hitbox, during the dmg phases ofc. while a boss is invulnerable you can’t drive dps… obviously…)

this are just benchmarks… its just comparing class dps with the builds used in the current meta team compositions.

sure, there are always differences between the golem and a real bossfight, but if you play it out good you still can get your rotations off really good – if you practiced them before, and fit them to the encounter, the mechanics and the environment.

just please… keep cool and friendly

“unrealistic crap”…
would you mind showing us what you mean with unrealistic?
maybe some boss kill footage where you are faster than the teams using the current meta tactics?

Mitch.4781

So PS warriors do 25k?

when they receive every buff in the game and do a good rotation.
under realistic circumstances they do ~20k with a good Rotation (as shown and written down on the related Topic…^^)
i dont really get the question…^^

maybe you forgett that the job of the 2 warriors in a raid Group is to maintain 25 stacks of might on the Party.
same as for the 2 rangers, while their dps is maybe not that good, their job is to heal and deliver their class-specific buffs to the Party (frost Spirit, grace of land etc which give a significant dps boost) while maintaining their Maximum dps.
a inexperienced raid Group might only take 1 warrior, but they will lack might. Or 1 ranger but equip him full heal and take another dps instead. that way they lose tons of dps because they got less buffs provided to the Group (frost Spirit/sun Spirit/grace of land, glyph etc only apply to 5 persons not 10) and a full heal ranger mostly Plays staff only which results in a dps of 1-5k, while a zerk/Viper can maintain ~14-18k under realistic buffs.

also take into consideration – These dps Tests with “realistic buffs” take as fact that you are under the effect of frost Spirit and 2 stacks grace of land averagely, which will only be the case for 5 out of 10 People if you only got 1 ranger^^

so if you Play in a inexperienced Group with a full-heal staff ranger you will most likely deal less dps than 20k as a PS warrior.

Long Story, short sense: “warriors do 25k dps” is just… wrong
it always depends on many things
if you play a selfish dps build as warrior you can even get a higher dps

did the fractal today, its really awesome!
my whole Group enjoyed it and we talked about how the recent Patches from arenanet really satisfy (April+this one – except maybe the temest changes, they could’ve been better, it really feels clumsy now).

and i know many many ppl that feel the same way.

Props to Arenanet!

http://i.imgur.com/xZDJ6Mw.png

nothing more to say

Ohoni.6057

No, you would only get the same rewards if you put in MORE effort than they do. Not less, not the same, MORE.

noooooooo! you would not! duuuuude…
you WOULD NOT beat the same challenge as they do…
you would just spend some more time into it by re-doing a easy version more times…
god… im out.

ohoni… your arguments are just sooo irrational…

Ohoni.6057

You would receive rewards of the same quality as the normal mode, just in lower quantities

and exactly THAT is the problem!
you would get the same rewards as others, without putting the same effort into it as they do. you would just spend a few runs more into it, but you would not have to beat the challenge you get the price for!

but i guess viceman is right, we are spinning in circles. ill stop here (this time for sure^^)
waaay too exhausting. ill play the game instead

Ohoni.6057

If you’re being upset about them adding a new option, one which you don’t have to interact with at all, then there’s nothing that can or should be done about that.

and again, exactly as i wrote before
you still ignore that players do get affected by it from their point of view.
if a easy mode would be added to the content they like, they would not like it that much anymore.

Ohoni.6057

But the point is that players should not be blocked off from content or rewards like that.

and again, exactly as me and many others wrote before, YOU ARE NOT BLOCKED OFF IT.

if we would take over your point of view, we would be blocked off all content we do not like.

your cookie analogy is just completely out of context…
raids CREATED equality, by satisfying players that requested hard content without easy mode for a long time.

Sarrs.4831

u already have 6 cookies bro
one is just a flavor you dont like
other kid’s doin fine with that flavor cos he’s a champ

exactly^^ even though i would not say because he’s a champ.
both kids got 6 cookies. both of them like some, but maybe dislike others.

the one enjoys raids, the other one does not
the one enjoys living story, the other one does not

the one is playing raids, loving challenging content
the other one is playing living story loving easy content/story

most of the players playing hard content accept there is easy content
—>some of them dont like easy content —> they dont play easy content
most of the players playing easy content accept there is hard content
-->some of them dont like hard content —> they dont play hard content
--—> everyone is equal

but you ohoni want only easy content (or content where a easy mode is available), making you one of the “few” that is NOT accepting that there is hard content WITHOUT the option for a easy mode —> no equality.

i love playing mostly all of the content, depending on the mood im in. sometimes i just want to enjoy the beautiful guildwars 2 world without having to focus —> i play living world, open world and the cool stuff that is out there.
but thats only me. only because i think that content is cool it does not mean everyone got that opinion.
many friends i got do not play open world at all.

but if they want a skin, that they only get from open world, they have to play open world!
and if you want a skin, that you get only from raids, you have to play raids!

if they would take your point of view (some of them do) they would say “they are blocked off it” because they dont like it—>they dont want to play it—>they dont play it.

but no one forces them to play open world, exactly as no one forces you to play raids.

Ramoth.9064

And absolutely nothing in game is stopping you from enjoying the raid. You yourself are though. Have a think about that.

exactly!

ohoni
your reasoning just always breaks down to the same frame:
“i want that everyone can enjoy raids”

while completely ignoring that “everyone” also includes the ones that will NOT like it when raids get different difficulties.

if someone states “we would not like different raid difficulties”
you simply state “different raid difficulties would not affect your challenging content in any way”, even though we state “it would, we would NOT LIKE IT”

dont you think that its a LITTLE bit narrow minded that you just draw a conclusion from yourself on everyone else?

Ohoni.6057

So long as you remember that “the target audience for raids” is only a tiny fragment of the overall population of the game, and making “the target audience for raids” happy at the expense of those other players is a net negative result for Arenanet.

even if the people that like raids would be “a tiny fragment” (which is not the case,), 99% of the content in the game is “casual+easy” with different difficulties and everyone that does not like challenging content should be over satisfied.

why you want to be 100% of the content to be easy available, while there are 1-xx% that would not like that??? stop being egoistic!

if there wouldn’t be any easy content in the game, i would REALLY love your suggestion. a game needs versality, it needs to appeal to many different players.
but most of the game IS easy content!!!!

you just want everything for you and your friends hhm?
now please dont answer “i want it for everyone”… you clearly dont.

many players love challenging not easy content that can’t be set to easy mode
why you dont want to grant them this? they also grant you easy content!!
that way everyone is happy

well, that are some good points!
i guess the best option is to wait and see what comes with the future, im sure there will come more content for everyone sooner or later^^

Jahroots.6791

It really just sounds like you like that raids are a bit exclusive.

only point i struggle with. i can’t like that, because its not the case! raids are not exclusive. everyone >without exception< could play raids. exclusive, or as many here call it “gated” content would be something that is exclusive for some players.
but everyone can start a squad and enter the raid, search a guild, group, whatever.
no one is excluded. everyone got the same chances.

ill take myself back now since i wrote some text-walls, i just wanted to bring another point of view into the discussion (i usually rarely post^^)

so far, have fun guys!

Jahroots.6791

I think you misunderstand the point of this topic. People are not suggesting that raids should be nerfed completely, they are asking for a separate and distinct version of the current raids that is more accessible. The current raid difficulty would remain, unchanged, for those who prefer it. They do not want to take your pizza away from you, they want a second one made with different toppings. This is not a selfish request.

i did not misunderstand the point of the topic!
i know that people want different raid difficulties.

but i like that it is hard to beat, and i know many others that also like what it needs to beat raids.

with different difficulties, sure it would be still fun and challenging, but the thrill of beating it would be gone (not completely ofc, but a little bit) because you know others that put way less effort into it can simply put it to easy mode and do it too.

Also, don’t think of the state of the game as being inherently ‘good’ or ‘right’. An MMO should be dynamic and fluid, adapted to the players’ needs. If enough people voice a concern (and we are all entitled to do this) Anet is likely to take notice and at least consider ways of addressing it. Quite a few changes have been made as a result of player feedback, and the game would likely have suffered overall if people simply kept quiet and hoped for things to change.

yes!! thats why they implemented raids, because players asked for challenging content!

i would like it if people would ask for easier NEW raids, that are seperated from the current raids!

dont think i would not grant it to everyone to beat the current raids! i would grant it to everyone! but only if they put effort into it and do it the hard way

i like it that there is content where you can’t simple put on the “easy mode”
that you have to do it the hard way in order to succeed!

i understand that you want current raids with a easy mode, so everyone could beat them on the first or second try. but from my point of view, content like that exists over and over.

but i hope you understand my points too now, i wrote them often enough, in every expression i could imagine

Jahroots.6791

That’s just, weak and lazy reasoning.

‘You don’t have to play GW2. No one forces you to play it.’ – Automatic dismissal for every issue anyone can raise with this game, ever.

Consider for a moment that because you are happy and content with the state of things does not mean that there is no room for improvement.

i am happy, because its a game.
even though, i would do many things different, for example i would try to focus on giving the players content they can re-play for years, that does not get boring with the time (like underworld or doa in guildwars 1). raids come quite close to that.

but that does not give me a free-ticket to grant and shout on everything they do and that they should re-build the content other people like to content me and my friends like, because they create the game not only for me.
they create it for many players, so they create much different content.

but you act like “i dont like that part of the content, change it, i paid for this game!”
thats just unbelievable egoistic… not only you paid for it
raids were created for the part of the community that likes hard+challenging content
living story is for those that like story
open world content is for those that like exploring

maybe my reasoning is weak and lazy as you say
your reasoning is just egoistic…
while i see that other players do not like raids, you can’t see that other players maybe do not like what you like…

its a game that got many different aspects, why should everything be the same casual-stuff?
it can be versatile, so everyone gets a piece of the pizza.
the one likes spinach, the other one tuna. why would you order a complete spinach pizza?

however, have a nice day

Astralporing.1957

No, it’s not. Playing piano is not the only way to earn money.

i guess i should have written a piano-price. because you get raid-rewards from raids not only money.

Astralporing.1957

First, don’t invoke the game’s name if you don;t know the meaning behind it

i played ~15.000 hours gw1, its not only about wars between guilds, its also about wars with your guild. a fight against the vale guardian is also a war. its a war against the white mantle…

Astralporing.1957

They just want some version of it that is less challenging so they will be able to play it

everyone is able to play it, however the question is if you will make it or not. if you dont train you wont make it, lets come to the analogy with the piano again, if you dont learn playing piano you wont get the piano price

Astralporing.1957

Maybe because it isn’t fun for them. Not everyone treat this game as if it were some Serious Business, or seek self-validation in doing things that, in the end, have no importance in the grand scheme of things. Some just want to unwind after a day’s work.
And that approach is just as valid as yours.

you did not read what i wrote. i said that i understand them, that i like playing with them, i got reallife friends i often play with that do not spend as much time into the game as i do, so i’m aware of the fact that not everyone wants a challenge ingame.

and thats cool, i did nowhere say you have to like it. but as i wrote, if you dont like it, dont play it^^
no one forces you to play raids.
if you dont want to play raids, you wont get the price for it.
if i dont want to spend many many hours into some collection, i wont get the price for it either.

if you dont want to play the challenging endgame content of this game
dont play it

if you want the rewards of the challenging content but do not want to spend time into it, its like: “i really want to earn money with playing piano, can someone teach me without me having to learn it?”

sorry if this sounds rude, i dont want it to be…
but when i see all those egoistic comments of people that can’t accept that there is content in the game for players that want to play challenging multiplayer content, that maybe even requires joining a GUILD in a game called GUILD Wars in order to succeed, i just head-desk.

i love playing with new players and i also love playing with players that are simply not good even after playing a long time, because i like playing with cool people, no matter if they are playing good or not.

but even those are able to beat raids when they try it. however, usually they stop trying it after 1-2 evenings and leave it for weeks before they try it again, simply because they dont want to try. they also dont want to train. they want to succeed.

but the “not so good people” i like to play with do not write long posts on the forums and want arenanet to change it, simply because THEY dont want to play it. because they know I love raids like they are, and many others love raids like they are.

tiers would destroy the thrill of the raids, because its supposed to be hard content for players that like hard content, with rewards that are earned by beating a hard challenge.

arenanet did a awesome job on guildwars 2. i do not say that i like every part of the game, but there are players that maybe love what i dont like. and if i want the rewards of that part, i have to play that part.

all you have to do: get over it – you are not alone in guildwars 2

no matter how your point of view on my point of view is, have a nice day

most important thing from my point of view: remember that its a multiplayer game. i see way too many egoistic players on the forums that are like “they want me to play this? pfff, i play like i want, i dont care about my group”. they hear “meta” and stop listening because they feel like they get forced into something, but they forget, that if you’re in a group you adapt to each other to enhance the other players AND your own fun. you play with other players, real persons that also want to have fun.

the “meta” is a good way of which everyone knows its working good. sure you could create your own “tactics” (because thats what the meta is – a tactic (including builds+strategies) that developed over the time through the experiences of good players that did the content 13958710 times). but creating your own tactics takes time and good communication. many guilds do that, but if you go into a pug group they dont want to spend hours on creating new tactics, they want to beat the content, so they take the (to that time out of best knowledge approved-) meta.

offer the other players something to enhance their fun, learn from players that are experienced, show others that you are a good friendly not egoistic teamplayer that is willed to adapt to the team and their tactics, then they will give the fun back to you

if you are a enthusiastic, good player with good reflexes and your rl-job does not request your creativity enough, you will end up in a good guild with like-minded players that do content faster/more consistently and maybe raid daily because they actually like the content, ignoring that they get no rewards after they finished all bosses on the first evening. if you are a chilled dude that smokes some green stuff while raiding 1 time per week and does not want to 100% focus, you will end up in a chilled guild that obviously takes some more time because you put way less effort into it than the first example.

everyone will find what he likes, if he notices that its a social multiplayer game where everyone wants to have fun, not only you so far, have a nice day!