Guild Wars 2

That’s not an argument – that’s an opinion.
And I wasn’t trying to give an argument there that was my opinion.
I do have a ranger and I tried the spirit build but I found it frustrating as heck. But like I said, I don’t play one (regularly) IE I don’t main one so I can’t say for sure that others don’t find it much easier.

Spamming is not an issue in gw2, it’s an integral part of how the game works. Again, you have auto cast built in. This will never be wow or warhammer online or whatever. Spamming will always be a part of gw2.

And necros still manage their cooldowns. Nobody blows everything and hopes for the best. It’s literally the same rotation as it was 5-6 months ago. Just ds5 and spectral wall have been added to it.

Anyway I have nothing personal against you and this is not constructive for the thread.

ahuba.6430:

No, thats not the problem. Those amulets have been in the game from the start and there was a point (believe it or not) in this game’s pvp where you didnt have 10 conditions on you 2 seconds into a teamfight. But this game has taken a turn down to cheap and kittenty avenue and rewarded us with spirit rangers, s/d thieves and fotm spammancers.

I’ve been playing this game since beta mate so I can tell you for a fact that conditions have always been present.
The only reason you didn’t see that many on you was two-fold:
1) condition classes were pretty much terrible. Ranger was nigh unplayable and necromancer received a massive nerf pre-launch.
2) people didn’t know how to play properly. Engi for example has always been viable as a condition class but it is also very hard to play properly. People didn’t really know how to build/spec properly. Building for burst was easier that’s why 100b warrios and bs thieves rules the battlefields.

Also all classes spam abilities. If you think necros spam now more than they did a while back, you’re completely wrong.
The only two classes who don’t/can’t spam is elem and engi. They have more complex rotations that ideally need to be tailored for the situation they find themselves in.

I can’t believe anyone would ever consider spamming an issue in a game where you can set abilities on auto-cast IE auto “spam”.

And are you SERIOUSLY complaining about spirit rangers who have literally just appeared on the scene? Do you even know how hard it is to keep those spirits alive with the amount of aoe and cleave going around? I don’t even play one but I imagine it’s a nightmare.

Great rebuttal though: “no that’s not the problem” – no arguments why you think that or anything.

so much bias…

Block, blind affects condi classes too.
The fact that other condis run their course is inconsequential as a hit from a direct dmg specced class will also have “run its course”.

I am not even disagreeing or agreeing with your main point but the focal point of your post is a list which is so biased that it ruins what your implicit goal is IE to improve the game overall.

Not to mention that you then proceed to give accurate numbers such as “many” when referring to ground targeted aoe condi aplication abilities/spells.

Now in regards to your point:
- I don’t know whether or not conditions need to be toned down since I would need proper metrics to decide that. You can’t decide things based on how they feel. For example, when I don’t run a stun breaker I feel warriors are OP with 100b. But I would have to be a complete moron to call warriors OP even though I may feel that sometimes. Overall, everyone knows they are certainly not OP.
- Rabid has toughness, condi dmg and precision. Precision on the most part is usless for condi classes. Not completly mind you, some precision is good since a lot of traits have on crit activation but the amount you get from rabid is excessive. From zerk amulet, a warrior for example uses and needs all the stats it provides fully.
- condition classes DO need more than one stat to be effective. they need either rabid or carrion because they need to survive longer since actually bursting something down is impossible. With a condi specced class you will never see a number higher than 3k (unless maybe necro lich form and carrion amulet). Those are normal hits for a power specced class.

I’ve always felt that the main issue is that condi classes do dmg at range, which allows them to kite while doing dmg, while all effective power specs are melee. That’s how the game is made pretty much: condi = ranged and direct dmg = melee.

garethh.3518:

Have you played Warhammer Online?
That’s the closest to it in a game I’ve played, I mainly played a single target healing zealot. The entire combat scheme being based on group v group fights, making positioning and how well you could predict allies/enemies, see conditions/inc-heal-debuffs go up on allies give leaps and bounds of an advantage… like after back line healing for a long time, where I had to know where spikes were going to hit when, how to best avoid the nasty inc heal debuffs, how hard classes hit and from what, positioning to discourge being stealth-ganked…. I played a rank 55 choppa (a month or so after the ranks got pushed to 100) and was pulling above even k/d most the time and even topped a few dmg charts….
It was a game where there was a large skill cap relatively independent of what class you played, a fair deal of the time, not always by any means… but often enough to make it a game worth playing.

I have been reading this thread and I am reasonably impressed that it hasn’t spiraled into a massive insult-fest as it usually does.

In regards to your point there however:
I have played Warhammer online. I played it for around 3 years after launch.

Your argument there is flawed. Zealots were not the most effective healers at any point. DoKs and Warrior Priests were. And those two classes just spammed their massive aoe heal – very little skill involved.
Playing a zealot required a lot more skill but you could replace it with a shaman – a DoK was a requirement though.
And in that game most dps classes had a -50% healing debuff and you could be kitten well sure that whatever was getting focused had it on them. As a single target BW I survived through positioning and because of CC from our KOBS.
In war you relied a LOT on your teammates.
And need I remind you that we had bw and sorc bombing even in small scale encounters for a very long time? Again as a bw, I can safely say that I didn’t need a lot of skill to do that.
You’re comparing apples to oranges.

On topic:
I play a necro so I may be biased.
I find that while condis are very powerful, you have a much longer time to react than you do to direct dmg. If you get jumped by a warrior/thief/ele and you don’t have a stun breaker you are dead. If you get jumped by a condi class you have quite a bit of time before you succomb to the pressure.
I just think it’s really hard to balance it all without making condi heavy professions useless. As a necro for example, I can’t play a power spec because i’ll get mangled as I don’t have a way to disengage or access to stability or vigor so I play condi which allows me to stay at range. Very similar to hgh engis (although arguably better).

Sorry for the off topic.

Well after a bit of testing, I don’t spec into dhuumfire anymore.
It doesn’t feel worth it.

But I am really having trouble doing decent dmg now. Maybe I had just gotten used to dhuum too much.

… But don’t all these dmg nerfs basically add up to us doing less dmg than we did pre-dhuum?
I mean, if you take spectral wall and you get an enemy to pass through it then, maybe it’s around the same but otherwise without the 4 sec dhuum, what exactly do we have now that makes us better than we were?
Again, not whining just trying to figure stuff out here.
Without dhuum I feel rather weak now dmg wise.

Also is anyone still using dhuum now in tpvp?

Hello everyone!

First of all, this is not meant to be a whine thread – I just want to discuss our current situation as opposed to pre-Dhuumfire.

After today’s hotfix, the viability of Dhuum is up for serious debate – I am not sure it’s worth going into the spite tree for a 2 sec burn once every 10 seconds.

However I was thinking about everything else:
- Putrid Mark nerfed to remove only 3 condis
- Corrupt boon nerfed to affect only 5 boons
- Signet of Undeath cast time nerfed
- terror damage nerfed
- Dhuum duration nerfed
- Greater marks moved up to the master tier (essentially a nerf)

The trade-off is that we got:
- Slightly bigger area marks
- Spectral wall
- More Life force
- better life force generation
- an extra 0.5 seconds duration on Doom (DS fear)

Please point out if I’ve missed anything major in either list.

Now, the question that I wish to ask our fine community is: do the buffs compensate the nerfs?

I for one, am not so sure we’re not worse off now

Thanks for your time and consideration,

Three things annoy me right now:
1) all these people who “mained” necro a long time ago, and came back now and now all they care about is balance, especially when it comes to nerfing “us” as they say.

2) anyone who says that they preferred the necro pre-patch since they don’t like to be fotm. That is so dumb it makes my neurons commit suicide by jumping out of my ears. It’s better to be OP and/or fotm but viable rather than UP and a special unique snowflake – period.

3) people playing other classes that are suddenly experts in “what needs to be done to bring necro in line” when they get stomped by one. Doesn’t even matter what kind of spec that necro was playing – it’s basically “if a necro kill me, it’s OP”

We will probably get nerfed slightly as we may be a tad too strong now but honestly we should all just be happy to be on the pvp map again but leave it to the devs to decide how that should be done and enjoy your class.

So much negativity on the forums lately…

The trait is not op.
It is very good but definitely not op.

This community really needs to stop calling anything and everything that counters their class/build op.

I’ll chime in (although I do like what the guy is trying to do – just not the way he’s going about it.)
Guys you are all noobs.
In my necro master’s degree course we (me along with my reputed necro scientists) have devised the ultimate super build.
It’s 5/5/5/5/5 – we call it “The necro build of void and nothingness that hurts training dummies a lot”. The enemy doesn’t know what to expect – you don’t burn and you don’t terror fear you sort of just stand there.
Minor traits is where it’s at. You may not kill the enemy but he will be forever confused!

We know this because we have a hermit that spends all his time alone and fights test dummies in a secret location thus testing our theory.

*all in good fun – no offence meant

He obviously means that without sufficient LF generation we are on the side of squishy.

You either go into blood or you get lf generation if you want to reliably survive bursts or at least have a chance.

I disagree with the point about 30/30/10 not being viable though – it’s just like being a glass cannon though.

I sense a hint of buttocks hurt with a massive amount of BS in this thread.

I would say it’s close to impossible to kill even a crappy thief (admittedly most are terrible) without an amulet.

I get it though, you think necros are OP – your opinion is dully noted and I am sure it’s highly valued by the necro community and the devs.

I am rather confused.
Even if the 30/30/10 build is generic and whatever other adjectives you want to throw at it it is STILL a really viable build. If the Op wants to help people as he does, why not list it then?
Also the necro may or may not be OP now but it certainly was not viable pre patch. A skilled player could sort of make it work but it was limited in what it could be achieved with the class.

It’s not a matter of debate – the fact that it was the general consensus (both in high and low level play) is a reliable indicator that it was indeed sub par.

In regards to the builds, some of them are quite effective. I used to run a 0/20/10/10/30 build pre patch which is quite similar to OP’s 0/30/20/0/20 build in scope and purpose.
However I do not think it’s overpowered now nor do I think it was prepatch.

Honestly I would stay away from classifications such as UP/OP in a thread where the OP states he wants to help people out – it’s just going to get the thread derailed.

The effort though to write all this up and presumably test all these builds is much appreciated so thanks OP for your time.

I actually laughed quite a bit at this.

Well done!

You don’t need a high crit chance to trigger it.
You don’t attack just once a second. I run 19% crit chance and carrion in pvp and I have never had any problems triggering dhuum.
I mean I know I may not trigger it each time it’s off the icd but I don’t need that anyway, I need it to proc when I want to burst which it does. Especially since we get fury when we go into ds.

I am having the same issues.
I love the extra burst, it’s fantastic but I have very little lf generation and I am not sure it’s worth giving up all the utility and survivability for the extra burst.

I am getting this too sometimes.
Mostly when I get killed in plague form.

Relog fixes it but if it happens when I am in a tourney I lose quite a bit of my dmg.

EDIT: I think I figured it out. If you have 2 on swap sigils (one in each weapon) it just makes both of them bug out sometimes. It’s almost like the game can’t decide which of them should proc when you swap.

The burning is good. It’s really noticeable.
Especially since we get 30% increased bleed duration as well.

My main issue at the moment is LF generation. I am really struggling to have enough lf to tank bursts and to cast our new condi and the usual fear etc.

I am running a 30/20/10 build and I am still not sure what to do with the last 10 points.

I must admit I am at a bit of a loss as to what to do against Phantasm mesmers too.

I play a necro and while I am aware that I can make it uncomfortable for them, my conditions don’t kill the phantasms fast enough (I am talking about aoe applied condis since the main focus should obviously be the mesmer himself).

The CD on phantasms spawns are simply too low for me to be effective.

I am not whining here I am just saying that the dmg they do to me is incredible.

And another thing, I don’t find them to be that ineffective in tournaments either. Even in a team fight, they can usually get off quite a few hits before the phantasms die and it seems like they can usually respawn them as soon as they are down.
And in fact i’ve found that phantasm mesmers are most dangerous in 2v2 situations rather than 1v1s.

I must admit I feel exactly the same.
I got full rabid for my necro in wvw… even went as far as to get some rabid style ascended pieces.
Then I tried carrion – in pvp initially.

I am sold – carrion all the way for me from now on… now I just need to change all my gear

In fractals there are certain bosses which you can fear – they don’t run away but they do take dmg. So it seems to be like the CC and the condition parts are in fact separated.

Of course I could be wrong but “double dipping” runes just doesn’t seem right… somehow.

Wouldn’t it be funny if they are simply bugged in the way they affect fear and all our math and calculations are basically redundant?

BadJas.5178:

Fear is regarded as both a condition and a control effect. That’s why you can cleanse it as well as remove it with a stunbreaker. So technically, since the runes give you -25% condition duration and -25% stun duration, both should apply, according to the way fear currently is implemented in the game.

You are not completely correct.
Going by what you yourself are saying the runes should reduce the duration of the CONDITION by 25% and reduce the duration of the CC effect by 25% – they shouldn’t add up. They should reduce each effect (condition and CC) by 25% thus resulting in an overall effect duration reduction of 25% since they overlap.

*Lich Form / Plague: Causes interference with “On Swap” sigils (eg: Sigil of Geomancy) in PvP, and cannot be procced again until the sigil is unequipped & requipped. (15 May, 2013) -Note: Difficulty getting consistent reproduction of this bug.

- this is straight from the necro bug list

This bug right here is destroying a lot of my tourneys. I lose a lot of dmg and since you cannot unequip weapons in tournaments I can’t fix it.
I have had some success with reproducing it by using 2 on swap sigils (staff and scepter) and then basically dying in plague form. Or rather going down.

On a separate note I noticed that sometimes when plague form runs full duration, at the end, my sigil procs as though plague form acts like a different weapon set.

I know it’s in the list but I just wanted to draw attention to this as I feel that we cannot afford to lose sigil functionality.

My greatest hope is that we get something like unstable affliction.
I know a lot of people don’t like WoW for varying reasons but that spell was perfect for a dot class.
For those that have no idea what I am on about http://www.wowhead.com/spell=30108

It’s a spell that does dmg over time (a dot) but if cleansed does a lot of dmg and a 4 second silence.

Of course this would have to be adapted to gw2 but in my opinion it would make the necro unique and it would make people randomly cleansing condis all the time think twice and it would make us a really valuable option for tpvp.

Brilliant defense this morning in eb.
Our keep (deso) was swiss cheese and it still held for ages.

We were quite happy with that especially since we were so terribly outnumbered and we were getting trebbed from two sides.

Cheers for the fun.

This is a tournament only issue.

This weekend’s been rather wasted as far as tourneys go because of this.

Here’s hoping for a quick fix ASAP.

Since the patch, in tournaments, whenever I spawn an illusion (phantasm or clone) they appear naked – no weapons or clothes. And as such they do not attack.

It’s almost like they are going “oh no, I wasn’t ready, i don’t have my make-up on yet”.

But seriously, this has rather broken mesmer in tourneys, please fix ASAP.

Thanks.

Osicat, your videos are absolutely brilliant- the music is pretty much spot on as well which just makes everything very entertaining to watch.
First gaming channel I ever subscribed to, in fact.

As far as the spec goes, I am in love with it. It all feels quite exciting. You make it look so easy but in fact, I have found it takes a lot of practice to play a shatter build in wvw.
I have over 100 hours on my mesmer (rerolled to it from a ranger) and I am nowhere near as good as you.

I have learned a lot from your and Winterfell’s videos so thank you for taking the time to make them.

Regards,
Theo